Related
? Video Playback format: H.263, MPEG4, & WMV
? 5~8 fps @ VGA decoding for H.263 & MPEG4
? Min. 30 fps @ QVGA decoding for H.263 & MPEG4
? Combined Bit Rate: 64Kbps (playback)
? Video scaling up to full VGA display
This info was taken directly from the Service manual Mike Channon so kindly provided us with. Thanks again.
However, if this info is anything to go buy, we are in serious trouble. Can anyone see something between the lines that I'm missing here?
Apparently WMP supports the Imageon Hardware, right? But at what fps for VGA encoded vids? 5 ~ 8 fps?
Are they nuts!! Or am I?? No wonder the Athena can't handle VGA vids. thus re-emphasizing the absolute need for the hardware decoder (Imageon), to help or even better, take over the processing/decoding of the vids.
This is not good news!
Combined bit rate of 64 kbps!! OK that does it, they are nuts! Should have trusted my instincts from the beginning. If a device can only record with a limited bitrate and resolution for video, that's indicative of its decoding abilities too.
Like I said QVGA resolution of 320x240 or even slightly higher @ 480x320 will return satisfactory results, but anything above that will strain the Athena's resources.
And yes, whilst using TCPMP or even WMP10 are able to cope with more than what the service manual states, it doesn't look like it's supposed to.
Lastly, I think encoding AMR Audio and MPEG4 H.263 (ASP - NOT H.264 AVC) might yield better performance in higher resolution videos, as this is supposedly supported by the Imageon hardware decoder.
I'm seriously NOT impressed. Its about time that HTC the world leaders in PPC manufacturing started thinking about making devices with a dedicated 3D/Video accelerator to completely alleviate the strain of the main CPU when it comes to 3D Graphics rendering (whether for TomTom or Games) or Video playback.
The soon to be released HTC Kaiser is a step in the right direction with its Qualcomm 7200 dual-processor (one for phone and one exclusively for applications), but it's still not good enough.
The o2 Flame had the right idea with its Nvidia 3D Mobile CPU and 520 MHz CPU, but apparently it doesn't work as well as expected.
The Dell x51v still outperforms the Athena by an embarrassingly large margin for video playback and their 2700 3D processor still outperforms every other PDA ever made!! If only they had a Phone application to boot, I'd have one of them.
I get it now, the Athena and these new devices coming out every five minutes are very good, but being an all-in-one solution was never the goal of the manufacturers now was it?
It's always been about the money and always will be.
I'd love to get a group of developers, programers and hardware gurus together (with specialist knowledge) and improve on the Athena, because I think it is the best base model PPC to take things to another level, but even if I had the cash....the likes of HTC would bury us in a second and release something that would blow our efforts so far out of the water before we could manufacture the prototype.LoL
At least it would kick start these greedy companies to start giving us end users what is already available, but combine it into one device...as opposed to giving us snippets of new technology one device after another.
Just my 2 cents worth.
I still think that the biggest disappointment is that ATI won't tell "us" how to use the hardware decoder...
The figures in the service manual could just be a result of HTC not testing the video support fully...
And after all: Its main purpose is not to be a device for playing video. That's just a bonus...
the joke is that although the athena can be made to play decent xvids after lots of tweaking , my 2 year old PSP blows it away for reliabilty
(lip synch comes to mind) and the picture quality matches and often betters it esp at the higher PMP and AVC resolutions.
I Think THE only true Way forward is the UMPC route I.e. Shift type device. Sadly it appears the idiots have dropped VOICE and GPRS from this machine
spacecat said:
the joke is that although the athena can be made to play decent xvids after lots of tweaking , my 2 year old PSP blows it away for reliabilty
(lip synch comes to mind) and the picture quality matches and often betters it esp at the higher PMP and AVC resolutions.
I Think THE only true Way forward is the UMPC route I.e. Shift type device. Sadly it appears the idiots have dropped VOICE and GPRS from this machine
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agree with you totally on this spacecat. The PSP's 16million pixel screen is the nuts and it's hard to find any pixelation in movie playback even at QVGA encoded vids.
@ wgary. I hear you, but its not only business users they should aim these devices at. Internet and e-mail is now so commonplace as well as mobile phone technology, that they should be aiming at a wider audience.
It wouldn't surprise me if Sony made more sales with the PSP than HTC with their last 5 devices! Why? because Sony tries to give people what they want, whilst WM devices give us what we need. Just wish these tech giants would learn from each other and bring us true 'Ultimate' devices based on all these meta-technologies.
Blow the retail cost to the consumer. People will always buy what they want and there will always be those who can afford it and those that can't just at the minute. I'm happy enough to fall into the latter category as long as the tech develops into this area.
mackaby007 said:
Agree with you totally on this spacecat. The PSP's 16million pixel screen is the nuts and it's hard to find any pixelation in movie playback even at QVGA encoded vids.
@ wgary. I hear you, but its not only business users they should aim these devices at. Internet and e-mail is now so commonplace as well as mobile phone technology, that they should be aiming at a wider audience.
It wouldn't surprise me if Sony made more sales with the PSP than HTC with their last 5 devices! Why? because Sony tries to give people what they want, whilst WM devices give us what we need. Just wish these tech giants would learn from each other and bring us true 'Ultimate' devices based on all these meta-technologies.
Blow the retail cost to the consumer. People will always buy what they want and there will always be those who can afford it and those that can't just at the minute. I'm happy enough to fall into the latter category as long as the tech develops into this area.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i wanted a cheaper PS3...sony never gave me that
Mackaby007,
I find it difficult to comprehend your disappointment.
You're getting too technical into this. Just enjoy watching the excellent movie quality of this device instead of counting the fps, would you? This is not a home theatre system for goodness sake. Also, the service manual may be just talking about the minimum critieria, rather than the actual performance, which could differ from unit to unit, just like some unit is able to overclock better than the others but officially set at a lower rate.
Look at the video that you posted. It is absolutely amazing. It is still not good enough, I think you're being too picky. Look at the 90% full, not 10% empty in this glass!
eaglesteve said:
Mackaby007,
I find it difficult to comprehend your disappointment.
You're getting too technical into this. Just enjoy watching the excellent movie quality of this device instead of counting the fps, would you? This is not a home theatre system for goodness sake. Also, the service manual may be just talking about the minimum critieria, rather than the actual performance, which could differ from unit to unit, just like some unit is able to overclock better than the others but officially set at a lower rate.
Look at the video that you posted. It is absolutely amazing. It is still not good enough, I think you're being too picky. Look at the 90% full, not 10% empty in this glass!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
for around £650 for what is basically a phone with extras expectations are justifiably HIGH!
you would think the machine could at least run movies at its OWN full resolution wouldnt you? I love my Athena in many ways but it still has some unjustifable issues, especially as it has a ATI chip that should be able to run movies decently an without lip synch errors
It shouldnt be such HARD work
I still blame ATI for most of our video problems.
However, I am now (after mackaboy helped me out) more satisfied with my Athena as a video device than I am with my Archos AV420 (which is a dedicated video-playing device). The screen on the Athena is bigger, and it supports more formats.
For me, size and shape of the screen and the fact that it is part of a all encompassing device, is far far more important than whether of not it drop a frame. In most cases, the source of my download is already very far from perfect, so it makes no sense to think about frame drop. I could not tell if there is any frame drop in most cases, as they look so perfect to me already. Being too concerned with that would only kill your enjoyment If I am after real good quality video and sound, I would'nt be watching it on this device. I'll be using my home theatre system and treat my senses with real subwolfer, AC-3 sound effect, and real high definition pictures. This is not to say that I accept any quality movies on the device. I'm saying that it is more than adequate already.
eaglesteve said:
For me, size and shape of the screen and the fact that it is part of a all encompassing device, is far far more important than whether of not it drop a frame. In most cases, the source of my download is already very far from perfect, so it makes no sense to think about frame drop. I could not tell if there is any frame drop in most cases, as they look so perfect to me already. Being too concerned with that would only kill your enjoyment If I am after real good quality video and sound, I would'nt be watching it on this device. I'll be using my home theatre system and treat my senses with real subwolfer, AC-3 sound effect, and real high definition pictures. This is not to say that I accept any quality movies on the device. I'm saying that it is more than adequate already.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
as I said my psp can blow it away for quality and reliabilty and it costs
only 100 pounds and is over 2 years old. its not good enough
OK guys let's not get into an argument, we are all just expressing our opinions and in some cases, venting as I didn't get what was advertised on the box and I paid heavily to have this unit. Thanks spacecat, you summed it up perfectly.
Moskus, your right too. It is down to the ATI chip, but the Hermes got fixed through the AKU 3.5 ROM etc with some tweaks, I think we'll get there in the end.
@eaglesteve. Whilst I respect your right to express your views and sometimes agree with them too, I simply disagree with you on this. Spacecat really hit the nail on the head in his post about cost of device vs incapability to play vis at its own resolution.
Let's not get it twisted either, just because these devices were aimed at mostly business people on the move etc.....the software certainly isn't.
Personally, my Athena is my personal all-in-one Mobile-communication/GPS entertainment System. That is why I bought it, because the specs and HTC's own write up advertised it as such. As it's not performing to expectation (only in this video department), I am disappointed eaglesteve. It is a main part of why I bought it and relates to what I do for a living. Not being picky mate.
Anyway, no offense taken. Just want to clarify why I'm always on about video playback. I'm hoping to hear back from Betaboy about what is really needed from ATI/AMD so maybe us paying customers can put a petition together or use whatever resources we have as a community to put pressure on either HTC or ATI/AMD to give us the needed info so Corecodec or another developer can solve this once and for all.
As Moskus always says, it is down to the Imageon Chip.
Peace my friends.
I don't really understand what all the fuss is about re video playback on the Athena. I have a very large collection of divx and xvid movies and TV series, mostly downloaded from torrents. I simply download them, copy to the microdrive, and watch them (using tcpmp) with no problems. The picture is crystal clear, no stuttering, and I have no problems with the audio lagging.
I can't tell you about framerates or benchmarks as I've never needed to tweak TCPMP, it always looks fine.
So there is at least one satisfied customer re videos on the Athena - me!
Each to their I guess, but I'm plodding on.
Pantaloonie said:
I don't really understand what all the fuss is about re video playback on the Athena. I have a very large collection of divx and xvid movies and TV series, mostly downloaded from torrents. I simply download them, copy to the microdrive, and watch them (using tcpmp) with no problems. The picture is crystal clear, no stuttering, and I have no problems with the audio lagging.
I can't tell you about framerates or benchmarks as I've never needed to tweak TCPMP, it always looks fine.
So there is at least one satisfied customer re videos on the Athena - me!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Happy for you Some of us are perfectionists though, and I've seen 640x480 VGA encoded vids from High def sources and believe me its as good to look at as High Def on a top end PC screen. The detail you see changes your viewing pleasure...it's like the difference between DVD's and Ultra High def in a mobile screen.
All those who have not experienced this quality wouldn't really appreciate what I'm talking about.
Nothing in life is perfect, but striving for perfection and falling short of it is still better than accepting what we already have.
Isn't that how progress works? It certainly does for me and I've never been displeased with my results after I've giving it my best.
If you're happy with what you have, then really, that is great and you are a lucky man/woman, but I always like to push the boat out that little bit more.
Can't remember who just posted to this effect about prefering the Athena to their dedicated Archos, but that is very pleasing to hear and quite encouraging.
P.S. I had perfect HQ vids on a 200 MHz Omap based WM5 QVGA device with no issues at all! Why is it so unreasonable for me to want the same from a 624 MHz CPU with a Video accelerator on a VGA screen? hmmm?
mackaby007,
You are like an ungrateful mad scientist Just kidding, but I am with you on this and I do understand what you are saying. Let me try to keep it short and sweet.
You also made an excellent point that a lot people might have missed. We can't all be experts and our development cycles are different. Some of us set higher expectations and achieve greater goals which is the reason why there are not too many Bill Gates in the world.
Nonetheless, I would like to see better picture too because this device was more expensive than my PS3 which I enjoy watching BD-DVD movies on a 70'' 1080P TV.
yep i agree my universal was far superior for playing vids and the keyboard was better but ths device is amazing and untill the htc x9500 is released im happy in general. seams strange to take a step back instead of forward for improvements but its all down to money and marketing the upcoming shift and x9500 are basicly the same device under the hood just a different exterior shell but they disable the voice on the shift and enable it on the x9500 just so they can sell the same device twice but repackaged.
spzero said:
yep i agree my universal was far superior for playing vids and the keyboard was better but ths device is amazing and untill the htc x9500 is released im happy in general. seams strange to take a step back instead of forward for improvements but its all down to money and marketing the upcoming shift and x9500 are basicly the same device under the hood just a different exterior shell but they disable the voice on the shift and enable it on the x9500 just so they can sell the same device twice but repackaged.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Interesting....never heard of the x9500.
lpsi2000 said:
mackaby007,
You are like an ungrateful mad scientist Just kidding, but I am with you on this and I do understand what you are saying. Let me try to keep it short and sweet.
You also made an excellent point that a lot people might have missed. We can't all be experts and our development cycles are different. Some of us set higher expectations and achieve greater goals which is the reason why there are not too many Bill Gates in the world.
Nonetheless, I would like to see better picture too because this device was more expensive than my PS3 which I enjoy watching BD-DVD movies on a 70'' 1080P TV.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well said and it was short and to the point.
basically it comes down to bang for buck.
A £650 machine that is outclassed by a 2 year old machine at £100 does not offer bang for buck in terms of Video playback.
I really enjoy my Ameo esp the big screen for HSDPA surfing, streaming my live TV and videos from my home PC via Orb, reading books via pdf,music, etc etc
but you would think if it has a 640x480 screen and they promote this fact bigstyle then it should be able to display video at this resolution
I would be very interested in a shift type device as long as it also has Phone functionality, .............................
hmmm will it suppport 800x600 resolution video ..oh dear
spzero said:
yep i agree my universal was far superior for playing vids and the keyboard was better but ths device is amazing and untill the htc x9500 is released im happy in general. seams strange to take a step back instead of forward for improvements but its all down to money and marketing the upcoming shift and x9500 are basicly the same device under the hood just a different exterior shell but they disable the voice on the shift and enable it on the x9500 just so they can sell the same device twice but repackaged.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi spzero,
So you mean that shift and shangrila are slightly different machine? There are conflicting news on this it seems. Some says they are the same, some say they are different. Do you have a link to your source of info please?
Thanks and cheers.
How do we delete duplicate post (by mistake)?
Hi! Ok im really disappointed by that ifference and im planning to buy X1(a) on best buy when it comes on Dec. 7
Anyways, i was wondering, considering both have the same hardware specs, if there would be any possibility to hack the X1 to get it to record at 30FPS VGA...
They dont have the same hardware, the CPU are different.
Lookie here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=445059
well but almost exactly
i dont think that a little bit better processor (such negligible difference could lead us to say is the same, from what ive read in other sites) is preventing from 30fps v. recording.
The difference isnt that one is better than the other. Its that one has that specific 30FPS VGA recording feature taken out to avoid patent infringement.
oh well.. then i guess thank for your answer!
can close thread if want to, mods
btw, who has the 30FPS VGA recording patent? Nokia (N95)????
that so stupid to patent something like that
Its broadcomm's patent, they manufacture chips for phones too :\
and yea it does suck. You could just import the X1i though, its cheaper than the X1a and the only thing its missing is 850MHz, which in your area may or may not be perfectly acceptable.
We'll see when x1a comes out, if iphone can get video recording with 3rd party app.
It's very possible the awesome programmers on this forum will think of some ways.
*Fingers crossed*
the Video recording hardware of the X1 is crap anyway, so your not really missing out anything.
I have the X1i and the 30FPS VGA recording is just a joke in terms of quality and speed compared to a 2 year old N95 for example.
I read an article from engadget saying that someone managed to tweak the camera via the OS on the Nexus One to record 720p videos. Since they both have 5mp sensors, would it be possible to do the same? The only difference is the OS, so the way we would have to accomplish this would be much more difficult I assume. It would be awesome if it could be done.
Engadget
~~Tito~~ said:
I read an article from engadget saying that someone managed to tweak the camera via the OS on the Nexus One to record 720p videos. Since they both have 5mp sensors, would it be possible to do the same? The only difference is the OS, so the way we would have to accomplish this would be much more difficult I assume. It would be awesome if it could be done.
Engadget
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
the hd2 camera can record 720p videos the problem is in the windows os it hardly supports wvga mp4
Not going to happen. I'm guessing drivers will need to be written, and such in order to even get decent playback on the FPS. I wonder if there are any SD-card requirements for the N1 modification such that it needs to be Class 6 to ensure fast-write speeds.
doesnt look great even though its 720p though, probably due to bad light. I wonder if we can tweak the HD2 to at least record 720p to play back on another device such as a PC.
yeah i've been wondering the same
Same here, used the "Search" before starting a new Thread and found this one
just saw this, id be willing to donate to anyone able to get 720p on the hd2.
it would be nice, but i would honestly never use it. but for bragging purposes, i think it would be great.. haha
That would be awesome if someone could figure out how to make Windows shoot 720p, they would be my hero.
My roommate is about to get the 4th Gen iPhone, and I want to make sure that mine is in every way equal to or better than his, so I don't have to hear continuous Apple Elitism.
AyanamiZer00 said:
That would be awesome if someone could figure out how to make Windows shoot 720p, they would be my hero.
My roommate is about to get the 4th Gen iPhone, and I want to make sure that mine is in every way equal to or better than his, so I don't have to hear continuous Apple Elitism.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Honestly, why do people feel the need to compare phones? They're for different people with different tastes. If he feels the need to completely tell you how your purchase was horrible or that your phone is inferior to his, tell him to grow up and get a life or something.
And you my friend, shouldn't be bothered with trying to "prove" your phone to him. That's just downright silly.
What would we need to get this project started? We do need to know where the drivers are located at and their corresponding registry entries, as well as any registry strings that could be useful in accomplishing this.
Do you really need extra video resolution?!
At the end of the day, 720p doesn't really mean better quality, it means a larger video res. Its almost like the megapixel myth everyone believes...
Hmmm, we can still try.
~~Tito~~ said:
Hmmm, we can still try.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
impossible on wm6.5 sad to say that ,windows doesnot support this resolution
Oh well lol.
the current camera app doesn't, in as much as it sits on top of winmo and isn't setup to do so. If windows can handle larger resolution pics then why not video?. has anyone tried hacking the camcorder app and the windows registry to see if it can be bastardized to do so?.
Note, video is about frame resolution and speed, if you increase the frame resolution you increase the quality.(if the cpu can handle it) The camcorder app is effectively taking still photos at 640x480 and sticking them together nothing more, theoretically if we manage to increase the resolution before stitching it should work. However there is the matter of codecs / compression, not only would winmo need to be adjusted but the codec / compression algorithum too. I am sure it could be done but it might be a mammoth task.
Well the HD2 has no HDMI output & its screen is only 800x480 so the only point of 1280x??? playback is for bragging rights
Similar issue with the iphone4, like whats the point of HD if the screen is so small you wont see the detail. Is it a higher resolution but smaller in size to HD2
Ive tried play 720 on my HD2 with a few different codecs/players & the best I got was stuttery playback.
Well if anyone has tried play 720p on a desktop PC with anything less than 1.6ghz then it will stutter. Although is a PC a whole different ballgame?
I think what would be nice for the HD2 would be 800x480 video recording with a few different codecs/bit-rates to choose from
Juno-First said:
Well the HD2 has no HDMI output & its screen is only 800x480 so the only point of 1280x??? playback is for bragging rights
Similar issue with the iphone4, like whats the point of HD if the screen is so small you wont see the detail.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Huh, because people then take the video and play it back on their computer, or put it online, like with any camcorder?
kilrah said:
Huh, because people then take the video and play it back on their computer, or put it online, like with any camcorder?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ahh yer of course, d'oh!
Would be nice to have HD recording for playback on a pc
Doubt the quality would be brilliant, but its a phone heh heh
hehe, the whole point of tinkering IS just b/c u can do it.
y put android on the TP2, just b/c
hehe
why give the nexus one 720p
just b/c it can handle it
hi..i m currently using the native camera app to capture videos...video quality is very good...but the audio is crap...i was recording a live concert...not exactly a concert though...live music performance...the video turned out very good but the audio really sucked...
since the phones mic is the only source...i would like to know if there is an app that can record good quality videos with decent sound...?
Or is there anyway i can remove noise from the recordings using a software on the pc...any convertor that will convert the video to a format which will output the audio better.
P.S the audio is real bad...just not acceptable...its very hazzy and full of noise
Note : settings used were...720p..mpeg4 codec.
Please HELP !!
I second the OPs inquiry...
The answer, as always, is CM. Video and audio quality is superior in CM.
2.3 fixes this via a new ACC codec. CM7, which is very much alpha, is the best choice. Whether that's worth flashing just for that fix is up to you.
Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk
Award Tour said:
2.3 fixes this via a new ACC codec. CM7, which is very much alpha, is the best choice. Whether that's worth flashing just for that fix is up to you.
Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Don't do this yet, though. The camcorder is still not working on CM7.
i hv no time to flash CM or 2.3 right now...was looking for a quick fix...some app/codec or tweak that will enable me to record better audio...or i don mind if theres a software for the pc which will rectify the recordings later...i need to do 3 hrs of live recording tomm...and sound is very vital !
i too would love better audio
rstuckmaier said:
Don't do this yet, though. The camcorder is still not working on CM7.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My video camera is working fine for me....
Sent from my CM7 RC0 Powered device
camcorder is fixed in cm7 lithid kang builds
techspark said:
i hv no time to flash CM or 2.3 right now...was looking for a quick fix...some app/codec or tweak that will enable me to record better audio...or i don mind if theres a software for the pc which will rectify the recordings later...i need to do 3 hrs of live recording tomm...and sound is very vital !
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If it is so vital and you don't have time to flash a ROM, then march yourself to Best Buy or your nearest electronics store and buy a camcorder. Relying on a "phone" to record "vital" video and audio is not the way to go.
^^ camcorder is out of budget...already spent a lot on d evo..so need to wait a while to get a good camcorder...
[offtopic]do camcorders record audio better..or do u need to buy some production mic to get better audio on video recordings in scenerios like music concerts..? Are there some ports on the camcorder to feed in the audio thru cables etc ?
yes, the video quality is pretty bad even at the max settings. i've never been happy with it.
if you got it less than a month ago, and the video is THAT important to you, you should return the phone and get an even exchange for the Samsung Epic.
The video recording on the Epic is amazing. Even better than the iPhone 4. My wife has it and i'm totally jealous of her video quality, which rivals our flip camcorder.
Besides that, the Evo is a much better phone in almost every way.
but if you're specifically looking for an amazing camcorder and not much else, go get yourself an Epic.
i got it 2 months back.
i donno but technically evo should record better video and audio as opposed to epic...the fact that evo has 8mp...mpeg4 codecs and features like light correction etc...i know 8mp don matter much but technically more the pixels better is the resolution and naturally better quality....is software the culprit in case of evo or is it that i m missing something abt the hardware of both phones ?
techspark said:
i got it 2 months back.
i donno but technically evo should record better video and audio as opposed to epic...the fact that evo has 8mp...mpeg4 codecs and features like light correction etc...i know 8mp don matter much but technically more the pixels better is the resolution and naturally better quality....is software the culprit in case of evo or is it that i m missing something abt the hardware of both phones ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The point that you are missing is you are trying to use a phone as a replacement for a camcorder.
techspark said:
i got it 2 months back.
i donno but technically evo should record better video and audio as opposed to epic...the fact that evo has 8mp...mpeg4 codecs and features like light correction etc...i know 8mp don matter much but technically more the pixels better is the resolution and naturally better quality....is software the culprit in case of evo or is it that i m missing something abt the hardware of both phones ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
MP means very little outside of how many pixels at maximum the photo can be made of. With EVO vs Epic video recording its a non issue since both record at the same size -720p- and no larger. Outside of MP, the Epic's sensor is just better; it may capture less pixels at its maximum but the pixels that it does capture will be of higher quality. A lot of people have said that the Epic takes better photos than the iPhone 4; and we just had a long thread where it was found out that the reason why the iPhone 4 shoots better than the EVO is because it does indeed have a better sensor. That's likely the same reason why the SGS/Epic are better too.
Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk
Award Tour said:
MP means very little outside of how many pixels at maximum the photo can be made of. With EVO vs Epic video recording its a non issue since both record at the same size -720p- and no larger. Outside of MP, the Epic's sensor is just better; it may capture less pixels at its maximum but the pixels that it does capture will be of higher quality. A lot of people have said that the Epic takes better photos than the iPhone 4; and we just had a long thread where it was found out that the reason why the iPhone 4 shoots better than the EVO is because it does indeed have a better sensor. That's likely the same reason why the SGS/Epic are better too.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly.
HTC makes great phones, but are notorious for making horrible camera sensors. This is because, besides from tacking them on to phones, the DON'T MAKE CAMERAS and have no experience in it and little budget to fix it up.
On the other hand, Samsung has been making digital cameras for the last 10 years and are even better known for their cameras than their phones. So, they have more money and research behind this form of technology. So they just slay at making cameras for phones as well.
bweisholtz said:
Exactly.
HTC makes great phones, but are notorious for making horrible camera sensors. This is because, besides from tacking them on to phones, the DON'T MAKE CAMERAS and have no experience in it and little budget to fix it up.
On the other hand, Samsung has been making digital cameras for the last 10 years and are even better known for their cameras than their phones. So, they have more money and research behind this form of technology. So they just slay at making cameras for phones as well.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
which is why i want a Galaxy S phone on Sprint but no slideout keyboard...Epic without keyboard. Come on Sprint!
bweisholtz said:
HTC makes great phones, but are notorious for making horrible camera sensors. This is because, besides from tacking them on to phones, the DON'T MAKE CAMERAS and have no experience in it and little budget to fix it up.
On the other hand, Samsung has been making digital cameras for the last 10 years and are even better known for their cameras than their phones. So, they have more money and research behind this form of technology. So they just slay at making cameras for phones as well.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If this is the case, I wish HTC would buy their camera sensors from Samsung...
billyman said:
If this is the case, I wish HTC would buy their camera sensors from Samsung...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Has very little to do with what he said. The iPhone and EVO use sensors from the same company. The difference is in product direction. Apple aims for quality, HTC aims for numbers. People expect Apple products to be easy and to work good; most of them don't have a clue what a mega pixel is or does. HTC doesn't have the same product positioning as Apple so they rely on marketing numbers to persuade people (3 more MP then the iPhone 4!!!). At least that's my view.
snowpunter said:
The answer, as always, is CM. Video and audio quality is superior in CM.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Is this really true? I always though that whenever i recorded or took pics with a CM rom it look a little bit better pics or shot better vids than any sense rom just did not know it was ture, or is it? What makes it better?
As you all know by now, today HTC and Sprint announced the release date for the HTC EVO 4G LTE.
I am excited as anyone about this phone. However, there is one area that I am VERY disapointed about: video recording quality.
In my opinion, HTC has so far been un-able to make a cell phone that can record good quality HD video. It's even more puzzling since apparently both HTC and Sprint were really promoting the camera on the phone at the press event today.
I have no issue with the quality of the still photos - my original EVO takes pretty good stills.
I saw a sample of video shot with the European version of One X, and it suffers from the same issue as my EVO - jerky video!
Shot in 1080p outdoors, at the highest quality setting, the video looks as if it were shot at around 20fps rather than 30fps. Pans and objects moving across the screen were jerky.
My EVO has always had this issue, which has prevented me from shooting much video with it. The camera is great, but I want to be able to carry a camcorder with me always. My mom's two year old Epic Galaxy S has been able to shoot smooth HD video from day one, and I've always envied it.
There is no video I can shoot with my EVO that I would want to burn to DVD or shoot important events with, like birthdays, holidays, etc.
Some bigwig from HTC was quoted comparing the One X's camera with that of the iPhone 4S. But I know the 4S shoots smooth HD video as well.
I'll probably at least go into Sprint and check it out myself, but I don't expect to have different results then that fromthe reviewer.
Have any of you (who can review video quality with a critical eye) noticed what I'm talking about?
I don't understand why HTC can't get video recording right!
Didn't notice the recording problem on my EVO, but could be the ROM I'm using. Also on the new One X, the videos I've seen look amazing. Don't know which one you saw, but I thought it looked great. Perhaps issues uploading or the video stabilization was turned on in the video you saw? It's not going to be like a 60 fps camcorder, but if that's what you are expecting out of a tiny phone camera, your expectations may be too high.
What other phone has better video? Looks the same as iphone 4S video and no one complains about that. A small sensor has limitations and it isn't going to get better when you post it to youtube and they compress it. No phone is going to make quality DVDs for your events. What's wrong with getting a camcorder with a sensor twice the size or a triple sensor if you have the funds? Seems they are getting video recording done just as well as any other phone to me. These are phones.
Well, maybe I'm a bit more critical than most. I work in video and perhaps my eye is more sensitive to the various aspects of video.
I'm not talking about sharpness, contrast, color saturation, etc.
As I mentioned, both the iPhone 4/4S and Samsung's Galaxy line of phones do not have this issue.
Try this: film 20 seconds of either relatively close fast moving objects like car traffic, or else pan in a circle at a somewhat faster than pleasing speed.
If you look closely, you will see very slight jumping in the video. It's not going to jump out at you (excuse the pun).
It's not a compression issue, that would result in a more blurry or pixelated image.
I realize we're talking cell phones. But both Apple and Samsung do not have this issue. I REALLY want to love the EVO LTE, I'm eligible for an upgrade in June!
Video recording on my evo was horrible as well ...like unusable horrible ..super choppy and laggy all the time. My brothers was exactly the same. My phone was rooted flashed multiple roms, video was always choppy... brothers phone never rooted...video was always choppy
Sent from my SPH-D710 using XDA
No I gotcha, I'm critical as well. That's why I wouldn't use ANY phone for capturing video for an important event. A camcorder is the only thing that will do.
However the samples I've seen look every bit as good as the iphone 4s or samsung videos. Of course the One X does seem more geared towards photos and have to say it definitely beats the others there. Also if you pause the One X videos you can still clearly see everything and even grab a frame as a picture. The Samsung videos get blurry so I wouldn't try it with the Nexus. Can't say I notice any change in fluidity from iphone 4S videos to One X videos, but again I don't know which video you are talking about. If there is any difference it is slight. All phones have this issue as they are just not going to match the smoothness of a quality camcorder and definitely not professional camcorders. Even then I notice the difference with motion interpolation on high refresh 120 hz and 240 hz TV's so I know what you are saying.
Perhaps best to withhold judgment about video on phone that isn't out yet. Once it's on youtube it just isn't going to look as good.
EDIT: I did find a One X video that looked horrible, it was a close up and the exposure was constantly changing, but did notice jumpiness when panning. Can't tell if it was due to being uploaded on youtube, but if it did happen on the phone it looks like it is having trouble with quickly writing to memory. It doesn't do it constantly so that may be the issue. When you have trouble with your EVO 4G are you directly shooting video to the SD Card? That may be your problem. The lag causes a frame to be skipped here or there. A larger buffer would correct this issue (well until it fills) or higher memory bandwidth. This also happens when uploading videos or converting the file format. Perhaps a result of poor conversion from RAW to 3gp. Still I wouldn't worry about it as there is a way to go until June and the hardware version may change. If there is an issue I'm sure they are aware of it.
htc-ppc said:
When you have trouble with your EVO 4G are you directly shooting video to the SD Card? That may be your problem. The lag causes a frame to be skipped here or there. A larger buffer would correct this issue (well until it fills) or higher memory bandwidth. This also happens when uploading videos or converting the file format.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, yes. the EVO has so little internal storage, and video file sizes are large compared to other file types.
But then, my mom's Samsung also wrote directly to the SD card, and it's still very smooth.
I will try to find that example I was speaking about and post a link. It was shot outdoors in daylight, near a flower stand if I remember correctly.
And for sure I will definitely check it out myself before writing the phone off.
As far as the phone not having the same quality as a "real" camcorder, sure. but you know the old saying, "The best camera is the one you have with you". My phone is ALWAYS with me. And I do think the quality is getting to the point where I can shoot casual everyday stuff that I may want to archive for the future, even edit.
Here is a link to the sample I was referring to.
This is from the HTC One X, which I believe has the same camera as todays announced EVO LTE. Pay particular attention to the panning at about the 1:10 mark.
And this phone has no SD card, so it was recorded to the internal memory.
Also, while you may wish to blame YouTube, this is how video recorded on my two year old EVO looks.
http://youtu.be/xOv4tjB7HMQ
Better than the one I found, but SD Card or not that is still the issue. I know that the version of the One X used for this does not have an SD Card. The Sprint one will. Either way, uploading it to youtube can cause this problem as well. And if you record to your SD Card on your 2 year old EVO and use a slow card you will see this as well. That may be your issue though it isn't for the One X. If it's internal then another phone might be your best option.
These are frames that get skipped either due to trouble encoding, small buffer, or memory speed problems. The iphones never seem to have this issue like Androids do (probably due to all the stuff running in the background and iOS's control over apps). Can tell when it happens in the video and it starts skipping. It's the same as when you are video conferencing and frames get dropped due to bandwidth. This isn't normal and guessing they would be on that. As far as the rest, still looks as jagged as any other phone with motion. If you use post processing it can help.
Here's on I saw that looked about as decent as other phone videos
One X 1080p sample
with cars going by like you mentioned. Have to say it looks clear when you pause on passing cars. Fast pans aren't going to impress on any phone (or many camcorders in my experience) and I don't know what else to say about it. Hopefully they fix what is bothering you and if not I guess you gotta go with another phone.
OK, you got me motivated to check out several youtube videos. I will give you the YouTube effect. Even though I have seen Galaxy and iPhone 4S clips Played back on the phones without the jumping, the YouTube samples did exhibit the issue.
While I wait for the EVO LTE to arrive at Sprint, I will change the video recording folder on my EVO and see if that makes any difference. I will also test the new EVO and cross my fingers. Everything else looks great and I'm hoping the video recording will pass my stringent tests!!!
So I checked, and I can not find any setting on my EVO to have the camera record video files directly to internal storage. In fact, there is no setting at all as far as location of recorded video and photos. Apparently the EVO is designed to record directly to the SD card and there is no other option.
However, in thinking about this studdering or "jumping" issue, it doesn't make sense that it would be related to the SD card anyway.
The phone would buffer recorded video before it writes it to the card. If the buffer ran out, perhaps video would jump or skip, but it would be at random times. The issue I'm talking about happens consistently during the video, like I said, it looks like video shot at about 20 fps.
Besides, I've used the same SD card in my mom's Samsung Galaxy, and video is very smooth.
So it's not the SD cards fault.
OP I'm with you. Camcorder on my Evo or better yet HTC phone if pure crap. Low light shooting is the worst I've seen on a phone. My Xoom, wife's ipad and daughter's Epic all take great low light and non jerky videos. People need to compare on hand with different devices before saying the Evo is okay, because it's not. That's my only peeve with htc phone and my next phone I'm going to make sure the video department is almost as good as the iphone 4s if not better, because iphone 4s take stunning video especailly low light.
I have been scouring the web looking for a fix for my Evo 4G video quality.
If anyone finds a fix please post it here.
Phone is rooted with CM7.1.0