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Are there any stable ROMs floating around for the Galaxy S that are just vanilla Android 2.1 or 2.2 and work with all the hardware features of the phone? I hate all the crap UI junk Samsung (and every other manufacturer) throws on top of Android installations.
There seem to be lots of threads with various different ROMs in the development section, none of which seem to be vanilla.
kgk888 said:
Are there any stable ROMs floating around for the Galaxy S that are just vanilla Android 2.1 or 2.2 and work with all the hardware features of the phone? I hate all the crap UI junk Samsung (and every other manufacturer) throws on top of Android installations.
There seem to be lots of threads with various different ROMs in the development section, none of which seem to be vanilla.
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I'm actively keeping a lookout for the same thing.
So far no AOSP Froyo build exists that I can find.
I think a kitchen build from modaco is the next best thing (but currently can only build from 2.1)
also hope someone comes up with a solution for this.
any one can check out this?
"[ROMs] Monaco Releases"
http://androidforums.com/all-things-root-galaxy-s/130486-roms-monaco-releases.html
ronaldramsayii said:
I'm not sure how many people seen this on here, but I've decided to bring it here. One link is the Deodexed version of the build that comes with all Galaxy S including TW 3.0. The other in case you don't like TW is the Vanilla Android....meaning clean, no TW, just plain ol' Android.
GalaxySDeodexed.zip
VanillaGalaxyS.update.zip
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Click to collapse
Is there's a Vanilla Galaxy S update?!!
Ok so the only way you can run stock Eclair 2.1 or Froyo 2.2 is to use a Google Nexus One, which is already somewhat long in the tooth compared to new hardware?
Is that the approach for the foreseeable future with regards to Android devices? They are all just going to be loaded with worthless shovelware and UIs that bog down the performance? If that's the case I'll just stick with my old phone and wait for Google and the manufacturers to get their heads out of their collective asses.
Let's all hope that gingerbread will stop this BS ...
I'm eager to get my hands on a clean eclair/froyo release without the TW, though i have to say that it wouldn't be so bad without all the lags. I just wish we all could download the freebies that samsung provide seperately.
According to the publications so far, Android 3.0 (AKA Gingerbread) might just be the cure for all this nonsense... hopefully google will do the job with the UI improvements and stop all the manufacturers of waisting their and OUR time and nerves ..
Hyperion82 said:
I'm eager to get my hands on a clean eclair/froyo release without the TW, though i have to say that it wouldn't be so bad without all the lags. I just wish we all could download the freebies that samsung provide seperately.
According to the publications so far, Android 3.0 (AKA Gingerbread) might just be the cure for all this nonsense... hopefully google will do the job with the UI improvements and stop all the manufacturers of waisting their and OUR time and nerves ..
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Yeah, I am definitely all for manufacturers allowing the separate downloads. AFAIK, it sounds like LG is going to do this better than any other manufacturer in the short-term and it's a trend I hope they keep up. They will launch their own app store, which I heard criticized but it does exactly what the majority of users want, free apps without bloatware. Sure, we would prefer to have those apps in the marketplace, rather than one more closed market created segregation, but these aren't software companies and if this helps them make more $ due to them being able to differentiate their product with software and by having less bloat then it's win-win to anyone who takes them up on both.
We will still see manufacturers, at least some, trying to dress up Android in the hopes they can create an HTC-Sense like following even through Gingerbread in the hopes of recreating HTC-like mindshare and growth.
So, let me start off by saying that I have searched, read and spent time trying to understand this... but still don't. Which answers why I'm posting this question.
First, what exactly is the reason that an AOSP rom is being developed and a Vanilla Froyo ROM is being developed?
Is the AOSP rom the important one here? Does the working AOSP rom with working kernel mean that we would have 2.2, 2.3.... and so on supported regardless of Samsung?
I understand that Samsung has not supported tremendously up to this point, I understand 2.2 has not been released for the CDMA version yet, and I understand the code they have released is "crappy." When I hear everyone talk about the great work the devs are doing, are they referring to mainly working on the AOSP? If this rom is built, will we be able to just keep developing it for the new versions of Android?
Sorta like in Back to the future when they break off the real timeline and go into the alternate 1985?
Samsungs Android - 2.1, 2.2.... EOL
Dev's Android - 2.1, AOSP, 2.2, 2.3?
Is this how it works? Basically just trying to understand what needs to happen for the Fascinate to get to at least 2.3... not WHEN or even IF it'll get to 2.3.
Thanks
AOSP means Android Open Source Platform.
It's a version of Android built entirely from sources provided by Google. It's completely Vanilla and comes with zero customer or manufacturer customizations. It's easily root-able, and able to be customized completely by the user if desired.
AOSP ROMs are desirable because they tend to be a bit faster and lighter due to their lack of crapification.
AOSP builds are only distributed in their complete and compiled form by Google for their developer handsets (Currently the Nexus One and Nexus S), and not by any carrier or manufacturer.
Okay, I appreciate that definition... I think I've gotten what AOSP is exactly... but I guess my question is does AOSP have any involvement in a future for this phone if Samsung decides to close its doors. Is a working AOSP, radio, kernel... whatever basically devs developing a future of this phone parallel to whatever Samsung does for it?
Like, I see from other threads that the ROM for Froyo and Gingerbread isn't necessarily the problem, its the radio and the RIL? If that is the case, what needs to happen for everything to figured out and for us to have a bright future for the Fascinate? Samsung has to release code for the RIL and radio? Are we SOL without Samsung helping here or will the devs definitely figure something out to get 2.2, 2.3... and so on for the Fascinate?
Bwangster12 said:
Okay, I appreciate that definition... I think I've gotten what AOSP is exactly... but I guess my question is does AOSP have any involvement in a future for this phone if Samsung decides to close its doors. Is a working AOSP, radio, kernel... whatever basically devs developing a future of this phone parallel to whatever Samsung does for it?
Like, I see from other threads that the ROM for Froyo and Gingerbread isn't necessarily the problem, its the radio and the RIL? If that is the case, what needs to happen for everything to figured out and for us to have a bright future for the Fascinate? Samsung has to release code for the RIL and radio? Are we SOL without Samsung helping here or will the devs definitely figure something out to get 2.2, 2.3... and so on for the Fascinate?
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It's kinda like building an office park, or strip mall or something. You toss up the basic vanilla buildings, and when it's finally done, companies move in and tweak it how they deem fit.
With a working ASOP build, it'll remove some of the shackles of Samsungs bs code.
So... the AOSP build IS THE KEY here? I understand it isn't working yet, but if the devs get AOSP working, does that mean we will get a 2.2, 2.3 and so on regardless of what is released by Samsung?
I'm just trying to figure out what is happening to keep the G1, Droid, Droid 2... supported by ROMs like Cyanogenmod and others, that hasn't happened yet for the Samsung Fascinate.
I'd like to get the Fascinate, but am sorta waiting because I don't wanna be stuck with a phone for the next 2 years that will max out at MAYBE 2.2 if we are lucky.
I don't know where to start with your confusion.
Samsung has not given 2.2 to us. This means that we do not have froyo...
The RIL is an interface layer between the os and the radio. I'm not too sure about it, but anyways...
The developers are working around the fact that samsung has not given further tools that they need to get froyo ported over. Currently they are working on a 1.6 RIL to get froyo working. On another note, vanilla aosp is a good thing because it gives developers more freedom to customize the roms. It also allows for them to be able to port over other roms.
I really don't understand your confusion. If you want a better explanation , I recommend getting on irc.
If I were you, I'd wait. Next gen phones are coming from vzw in the next few months which will essentially blow the existing tech soon.
Bwangster12 said:
So... the AOSP build IS THE KEY here? I understand it isn't working yet, but if the devs get AOSP working, does that mean we will get a 2.2, 2.3 and so on regardless of what is released by Samsung?
I'm just trying to figure out what is happening to keep the G1, Droid, Droid 2... supported by ROMs like Cyanogenmod and others, that hasn't happened yet for the Samsung Fascinate.
I'd like to get the Fascinate, but am sorta waiting because I don't wanna be stuck with a phone for the next 2 years that will max out at MAYBE 2.2 if we are lucky.
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Basically, that's the hope at least. If there are changes in say, 2.4 that require something that couldn't be hacked around with ASOP, we'll be stuck waiting for Samsung. But with a working ASOP, the groundwork is laid for updates to be ported over a bit more quickly by the devs.
Regardless of the future of this device, the Fascinate is one of the better Android handsets on the market. The screen is brilliant, it's the perfect size, and it's damn fast. The only thing that drags it down is the factory setup (although I personally think it's idiotic to ding the phone because of the inclusion of Bing like some people/reviewers have.)
I'm trying to understand what is going on instead of being one of the millions to ask about updates for this phone. I see phones like the droid series and read that they basically are being supported forever and then I see the Samsung Fascinate, and while I understand that the code is crappy/not released to community... I'm trying to figure out what needs to happen for it to be a supported device like the droids have been.
Bottom line, nothing at all is going to happen unless Samsung releases more than just a 2.2 update? If I see 2.2 drop like tomorrow, does that mean anything for a future, or is it just 2.2 update and we will just get devs releasing their versions of 2.2 roms?
RacerXFD said:
I really don't understand your confusion. If you want a better explanation , I recommend getting on irc.
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I read his questions as:
"Will a working ASOP build mean better developer support/faster developer released updates?"
I did skim them though.
RacerXFD said:
If I were you, I'd wait. Next gen phones are coming from vzw in the next few months which will essentially blow the existing tech soon.
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This is a good point. There's an LTE Samsung handset coming out soon, so it might be worth holding out for a little.
Although the Fascinate is no slouch.
Pretty much what I am asking. Like of everything that could possibly happen, Samsung releasing 2.2, AOSP being finished, blah blah what is the key that a consumer should look for to say...
"Well, now the Fascinate has no negatives to it and I have no fear that in a year, we won't still be stuck on 2.1 or 2.2 because Samsung screwed us."
Doesn't necessarily seem like Samsung needs to do MUCH to future this phones life and turn over the keys to the devs (like HTC seemingly has done), but I'm trying to understand what that thing is they need to do. Release a newer kernel, RIL, 2.2 ROM, some code that magically allows devs to port over future roms eternally...
I don't think I care if the phone has LTE capability. I won't get LTE and a regular 3G phone is beyond enough for me. LTE is zero impact for me.
Bwangster12 said:
Pretty much what I am asking. Like of everything that could possibly happen, Samsung releasing 2.2, AOSP being finished, blah blah what is the key that a consumer should look for to say...
"Well, now the Fascinate has no negatives to it and I have no fear that in a year, we won't still be stuck on 2.1 or 2.2 because Samsung screwed us."
Doesn't necessarily seem like Samsung needs to do MUCH to future this phones life and turn over the keys to the devs, but I'm trying to understand what that thing is they need to do. Release a newer kernel, RIL, 2.2 ROM, some code that magically allows devs to port over future roms eternally...
I don't think I care if the phone has LTE capability. I won't get LTE and a regular 3G phone is beyond enough for me. LTE is zero impact for me.
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What does SAMSUNG need to do? Release their source code, and not just incomplete parts of it.
Will that happen? I doubt it, but it might. Clearly the companies ears are perking up with all the yelling by the consumers.
What can we do in the meantime? Support the devs and wait for them to crank out a working ASOP build and Froyo.
Yes, would be nice to have a fully working AOSP build, and then Froyo... but they are seperate from each other right?
AOSP build is being done for 2.1? It can't just be magically updated to 2.2 can it? Does Froyo have to be officially released for them to update it to AOSP 2.2?
Basically... AOSP will only be updated to whatever version Samsung has released?
Bwangster12 said:
Yes, would be nice to have a fully working AOSP build, and then Froyo... but they are seperate from each other right?
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No. Android Open Source Project means "Android" in general. It can be 2.1, 1.6, 2.3, whatever. The devs elected to start with 2.1.
AOSP build is being done for 2.1? It can't just be magically updated to 2.2 can it? Does Froyo have to be officially released for them to update it to AOSP 2.2?
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If you've followed anything in the dev folders, clearly not. JT's "Vanilla" Froyo looks like an AOSP build.
Basically... AOSP will only be updated to whatever version Samsung has released?
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No. At least not our version.
Bwangster12 said:
Yes, would be nice to have a fully working AOSP build, and then Froyo... but they are seperate from each other right?
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Click to collapse
It's hard to answer your question because AOSP and Froyo refer to two completely different things, which can be the same or separate.
AOSP is basically Android, built from clean, unmodified source code directly from Google, without any changes by carriers or manufacturer.
Froyo is simply the 2.2 version of Android.
So, you can have Froyo that's modified by a carrier and/or manufacturer. This wouldn't be AOSP. And you can have Froyo, built directly from Google code. This would be AOSP. You can also have Eclair (Android 2.1), or any other version of Android that's AOSP or not AOSP depending on whether it was built directly from Google code, or modified by a carrier or manufacturer.
AOSP doesn't refer to a single, particular version of Android, but the state of the code that was used to compile whatever version you want to talk about.
Bwangster12 said:
AOSP build is being done for 2.1? It can't just be magically updated to 2.2 can it? Does Froyo have to be officially released for them to update it to AOSP 2.2?
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A lot of the issue surrounds the kernel. When Google releases a new version of Android, it runs on a particular version of the kernel, which supports it's particular features. Manufacturers have to modify the kernel to support their particular hardware. So, since Samsung has only released source code for the kernel for Android 2.1, we're stuck on 2.1.
The versions of 2.2 from Kaos and JT are running on the Android 2.1 kernel that's been hacked to enable 2.2 to boot and run correctly. It works, but it's far, far from ideal. It doubles (if not more) the amount of work necessary to get 2.2 running, which is the reason for the rather slow pace of development.
So for your question, once Samsung releases 2.2 (the system and kernel), it'll be much easier to get an AOSP build of Android running, since the devs will only need to worry about the system instead of hacking together a kernel and RIL (radio interface layer) as well.
At least this is my understanding of the situation. I'm sure people with more knowledge and experience can correct me where I'm wrong, but I think this is the basic gist of it.
ChrisDDD said:
It's hard to answer your question because AOSP and Froyo refer to two completely different things, which can be the same or separate.
AOSP is basically Android, built from clean, unmodified source code directly from Google, without any changes by carriers or manufacturer.
Froyo is simply the 2.2 version of Android.
So, you can have Froyo that's modified by a carrier and/or manufacturer. This wouldn't be AOSP. And you can have Froyo, built directly from Google code. This would be AOSP. You can also have Eclair (Android 2.1), or any other version of Android that's AOSP or not AOSP depending on whether it was built directly from Google code, or modified by a carrier or manufacturer.
AOSP doesn't refer to a single, particular version of Android, but the state of the code that was used to compile whatever version you want to talk about.
A lot of the issue surrounds the kernel. When Google releases a new version of Android, it runs on a particular version of the kernel, which supports it's particular features. Manufacturers have to modify the kernel to support their particular hardware. So, since Samsung has only released source code for the kernel for Android 2.1, we're stuck on 2.1.
The versions of 2.2 from Kaos and JT are running on the Android 2.1 kernel that's been hacked to enable 2.2 to boot and run correctly. It works, but it's far, far from ideal. It doubles (if not more) the amount of work necessary to get 2.2 running, which is the reason for the rather slow pace of development.
So for your question, once Samsung releases 2.2 (the system and kernel), it'll be much easier to get an AOSP build of Android running, since the devs will only need to worry about the system instead of hacking together a kernel and RIL (radio interface layer) as well.
At least this is my understanding of the situation. I'm sure people with more knowledge and experience can correct me where I'm wrong, but I think this is the basic gist of it.
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Okay, thank you for this answer... this makes sense to me.
So, have HTC and Motorola released newer kernels for the devs of roms like Cyanogemod to update their ROMs, despite HTC and Motorola not actually releasing newer versions? I mean, how is the G1 updated as far as it has. Did HTC release a 2.2 kernel to allow devs to put 2.2 on it?
That's were I'm start confused as well.
I understand that Samsung has some proprietary kernel level code and drivers.
But, I'm curious what is the difference between Linux kernel versions used for different versions of Android. It doesn't sound like major version change and hence should not change anything dramatically. It should be mostly bug fixes. That's why jt was able to get kernel work.
As in relation to ASOP for SF, I see it like attempt to adapt Samsung code to current android interfaces. Once again, these interfaces should not change dramatically between versions, because these are evolutionary. So, I assume when done it is pretty much paved road up to 3.0 at least. That said some new features might not work at all, because we do not have working initial binaries from Samsung.
By the way mrbirdman has GB in progress.
Alright... so this may sound like I'm oversimplifying it, but I don't mean to.
Why can't the dev community just create a "custom" kernel to work with their versions of 2.2, 2.3 and so on? You say that they are working to hack the 2.1 kernel Samsung has released so it allows 2.2 to run on the Fascinate... but why can't they just make a 2.2 kernel? Is that sorta what Cyanogenmod is doing to get a 2.2 Froyo build to work on a G1?
Based on the amazing things I've seen the dev community do, building ROMs from scratch, I guess I don't understand how the kernel can't be built specifically for each new version... forgetting about what Samsung releases.
Bwangster12 said:
Why can't the dev community just create a "custom" kernel to work with their versions of 2.2, 2.3 and so on?
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Click to collapse
Theoretically they could, it would just be a lot of work. Hardware drivers might not be compatible with the kernel version designed for 2.2 or 2.3. I don't think manufacturers are required to release the code for their drivers, so if a driver wouldn't work, one would need to be written from scratch, and without the detailed knowledge of the hardware itself, that is very difficult.
Hardware support is very integral to the kernel, so a kernel for one phone wouldn't run at all on another. So in addition to the difficulty of putting together a totally independent kernel, it would need to be done separately for each and every phone out there, and how many versions of the Galaxy S alone are there? How many HTC phones, how many Motorola and LG and Sony and so on.
It's just not realistic for people doing this, essentially, in their spare time.
So, what the devs generally do is wait until a carrier releases a version of Android (System, kernel, radio, etc.), and with all the hardware support in place and working, they can focus on building custom or AOSP versions of the system.
It's not that they couldn't build their own kernel, it's just a matter of practicality, audience and the shelf live of the particular phone. As it is, a new generation of phones are already either coming out or on the near horizon... and our phone is what, 4 to 5 months old?
Bwangster12 said:
Based on the amazing things I've seen the dev community do, building ROMs from scratch, I guess I don't understand how the kernel can't be built specifically for each new version... forgetting about what Samsung releases.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The misunderstanding is in the complexity of compiling a custom system, and developing a custom kernel. They are hugely different in terms of complexity.
Think of a ROM as taking Windows 3.1 and simply tweaking the components that are installed by default - what accessories are installed, what wallpaper is selected, the color scheme of the windows. Not terribly complicated.
Think of the kernel as having to compile DOS, complete with custom drivers for all the hardware - CPU, graphics, memory, storage, multitouch, sound, radio, modem, WiFi, networking, power management, USB support, file system support, etc. all by hand.
So I've noticed a lot, and I mean, a lot less stuff on the development forum and just wondering if we're pretty much at the limits of our phones.
I appreciate all the work done for our phones, but I hate seeing that we're essentially gone.
Anyways, looking for maybe future roms in the works or something different I should try out. change it up a bit.
kevphan08 said:
So I've noticed a lot, and I mean, a lot less stuff on the development forum and just wondering if we're pretty much at the limits of our phones.
I appreciate all the work done for our phones, but I hate seeing that we're essentially gone.
Anyways, looking for maybe future roms in the works or something different I should try out. change it up a bit.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What are you running now? You have variants of gingerbread: Jaybob's, deck,cm7, omgb and omfgb 2.3.4 and 2.3.5, you have WildHeroc (2.3.3) with 2.1 sense and some 3.0 goodies, and you have iHero (2.3.2) which is some ios fun and different tweaks and themes too. Also, there have been some great kernel developments (.35) which is probably going to be crucial in pushing the Hero's limits even further.
Remember, we never got an update from htc above 2.1 update 1. We have a lot for a mdpi phone. We will never have MIUI most likely, but my phone is flying now and a lot more fun than when I 1st got it.
Maybe you can come up with something that hasn't been thought of yet?
Most of the guys developing for the hero don't even have one, or if they do, it is only to test what they are developing; they are not activated.
My $.02.
You think Meth is bad? Try being a flash whore with a Gingerbread habit and a legacy device! It ain't pretty.
Yea I've been running Pure GB, with jaybobs kernel.
I've seen the different roms and such; actually liked the iOS one that was made, but honestly performance for me is key. No lag or issues, so probably why I've stuck with 2.3.x
Overall I've just seen a lot of the same gingerbread roms, maybe a few minor tweaks here and there, but overall the same.
Last night, +Steve Kondik took to twitter to vent a little bit:
"CM has been getting a lot of crap lately for taking so long with a release. Guess what? It's not that easy. We don't just call something stable unless we mean it. *Also, RC1 is soon!* The most stable devices will get the RC first. The system we've put in place should allow other devices to catch up quickly. More details later this week "
Now to combat the obvious questions:
# As Steve stated, this will not be for all CM9 supported devices. The Nexus S and Galaxy Nexus can be considered safe bets, but the final list won't be available until release day.
# As always, the proper day of release is difficult/impossible to predict, but we anticipate a code freeze going in place tomorrow at the earliest.
# Yes, this means we will actively be running two separate RC phases (CM7 and CM9). Bug's should be reported to the issue tracker once the release is made, not in the comments on our posts.
# There has been a lot of talk surrounding Linaro in CM. While CM 9.0 won't ship with all the patches on gerrit, quite a few of them are already incorporated and others are sane enough that they will likely be there. There are still some issues surrounding the updated gcc used for the Linaro patches that don't play nice with AOSP.
# Nexus One: For the time being, the N1 will not be supported. We can get it to build/boot/run, but the hacks required break Google's CTS, so until that is rectified, you won't see any build with CM's official stamp of approval.
CM9 News
And from a followup a few hours later:
******
+Ricardo Cerqueira sat down with XDA recently for a developer interview
To piggy back on our comment about the N1 and CTS, Ricardo describes why we don't just shrug off that requirement.
Because it opened a can of worms that can’t be closed again. Getting it to work needed some very ugly workarounds that directly go against Google’s compatibility document for ICS. An app developer targeting ICS as a minimal version for his apps has the right to expect some functionality to be guaranteed on a device that claims to be ICS, that wasn’t (and isn’t) true for ICS builds with these hacks. That’s one the main reasons CM9 does not officially include a bunch of devices that are “working.”
...and some users understand that, but a lot don’t, and they’ll submit error reports on those apps, or they’ll rate it badly at the Play store. This is not a hypothetical scenario, it has happened whether we like it or not, asked for it or not, CM’s userbase is large enough to matter, even if you don’t count derivatives. We have a responsibility not to cause that kind of grief to app developers and we did. With all the mostly bull**** talk about fragmentation, we actively contributed to a break in the platform, no matter how small. That’s not a good thing :X People SHOULD know these builds contain hacks, but you’ve surely realized by now that they don’t
******
dookie23 said:
....so until that is rectified, you won't see any build with CM's official stamp of approval.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
so.... is that ever gonna get rectified
charlie_su1986 said:
so.... is that ever gonna get rectified
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I wonder what are the hacks he mentioned in the post. Was it the hboot hack, m2sd hack or swap partition...etc?
what is all the fuss about CM9 not releasing a rom officially when we have quite a few talented devs that have already given us the choice of running a near perfect ICS Rom on our nexus one?
EDIT: BCM offers CM9 features, AOKP offers us users the choice of AOKP features and texasice rom has a twist of its own features to. I do not see a problem with CM not releasing an official rom
Kannibalism said:
what is all the fuss about CM9 not releasing a rom officially when we have quite a few talented devs that have already given us the choice of running a near perfect ICS Rom on our nexus one?
EDIT: BCM offers CM9 features, AOKP offers us users the choice of AOKP features and texasice rom has a twist of its own features to. I do not see a problem with CM not releasing an official rom
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Don't get me wrong, I love seeing the talented devs make awesome progress on kang'ing CM9 and things are coming together nicely. What I am getting at is not whether Cyanogenmod is releasing a CM9 rom officially for the Nexus One, but it's what Ricardo Cerqueira said about the hacks breaking Google CTS. This could mean that apps might not run or worse yet, FC's for no reason.
Now, the real questions are, what are these hacks Ricardo was talking about and is that gonna get rectified?
the hacks they talk about could be small stuff like ta camera fix etc since vendors do not always release new drivers.I would say that the nexus one is using a few hacks for drivers in order to make everything work better
I suspect it's a combination, both messing with HBOOT partition sizes (which is not a *bad* thing, but involves a lot more risk than just flashing a new ROM) and the nasty driver hacks that the poor dev's have had to do to try to working around the lack of a Broadcom driver, since they saw fit to release neither a driver nor sufficient documentation. It's hard to see how either could be overcome for an "official" CM9 release. I feel like it's a bit of a chicken and egg problem; with sufficient dev attention things could probably be brought into acceptable shape, but unofficial ports will never have sufficient dev attention.
Disclaimer: I really appreciate all the work that's been done by everyone on all the community ROMs. It's a hard, often thankless job, whether you're debugging mystery driver issues on an older phone or trying to coordinate a release for dozens of different devices with angry, impatient fans. While I'd love to have an official, flawless ICS ROM, at least we get more love from the community than we did from Google
decoherent said:
I suspect it's a combination, both messing with HBOOT partition sizes (which is not a *bad* thing, but involves a lot more risk than just flashing a new ROM) and the nasty driver hacks that the poor dev's have had to do to try to working around the lack of a Broadcom driver, since they saw fit to release neither a driver nor sufficient documentation. It's hard to see how either could be overcome for an "official" CM9 release. I feel like it's a bit of a chicken and egg problem; with sufficient dev attention things could probably be brought into acceptable shape, but unofficial ports will never have sufficient dev attention.
Disclaimer: I really appreciate all the work that's been done by everyone on all the community ROMs. It's a hard, often thankless job, whether you're debugging mystery driver issues on an older phone or trying to coordinate a release for dozens of different devices with angry, impatient fans. While I'd love to have an official, flawless ICS ROM, at least we get more love from the community than we did from Google
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I agree with this post i would put the blame on google for not pushing the vendors for the broadcom drivers since android is open source after all but once again great works by our devs and thanks for letting us experience the latest versions of android on our devices
EDIT: i must admit that i have better devices to use than the nexus one but the community keeps me coming back for more
Sent from my Nexus One using xda premium
I've got a question I tried to answer myself, but I couldn't resist to post it on the forum.
Is the ICS leak a great step forward for all Atrix users ?
For those who wanted HWA, fingerprint scanner, working camera, of course it is... But is it a step forward for the release of a STABLE CM10 with a STABLE kernel ? This question is more open to a debate than a simple answer.
This leak didn't provide any option for those who have the wrong tegrapart (Mine is OK), or a lapdock, or those who use Chrome and want a generally reliable ROM (Stability, I/O perfs, battery life). They have to make a compromise but we still didn't reach THE ROM(s) that makes everybody happy.
The missing thing to get the ROM(s) that will make us all happy is the kernel source... Why didn't we get it with the ICS leak ? Well let's exclude this question from this thread and maybe talk about it after this debate is (almost) closed.
Personally I'm happy to have this new ROM, it's fast, smooth etc. but my lapdock is still borked so I'm really frustrated not to have this awesome tablet display that works with EVERYTHING but not MOTOROLA's own peripheral... Damn it !
So, what's your case ? Of course you may have found satisfaction with the ICS leak, but are you as frustrated as I am to be this close to the ultimate goal ?
The debate is open, I hope I broke the ice for some people who are in my case and feel like forgotten.
I think that leak does not come with the source code. Thus there will not be any practical improvement right now.
Or, most likely ever. I doubt things will go much farther, and I'm usually the optimistic one
no chance
nope, i think the ics leak was just a one off leak from what motorola actually got round to doing before they abandoned the project, which personally is really bad the roms are just crappy (no offence to developers but the lack of resources means they will always be crappy), everyone says the roms are good but every ics rom iv used is awful, overheating, bugs, battery life sucks, cameras lag, and doesnt compare to a stable cm7 which works completely fine and does everything ics can do anyway.. hmm... i guess everyone just keeps giving themselves false hope, although the possibility of a stable ics is much more than the chance of jellybean & as for the cm10/jellybean thing dont get your hopes up the signs of HWA are non existent and i really dont think they ever will be unless somebody makes a kernel from scratch which for a mobile device would take endless hours of work and testing each boot would probably get your through about 50 atrix phones from hard bricks etc... and i dont think our developers have the time or money to do so... even with donations.
its just not worth it, the atrix is a dying breed if you dont like cm7 then buy a new phone, its that simple, confuses me why everyone acts like cm7 is some sort of bugged crappy software that doesnt work? yet its still a very stable software.
i think everyone should stop concentrating on ICS and jellybean until we actually hear news that will be helpful to creating a stable build and in the mean time focus on improving cm7 with mods and other things, right now cm7 is basically abandoned and the thing its been abandoned for has been on hold for around 3 months.
Pixelguy said:
nope, i think the ics leak was just a one off leak from what motorola actually got round to doing before they abandoned the project, which personally is really bad the roms are just crappy (no offence to developers but the lack of resources means they will always be crappy), everyone says the roms are good but every ics rom iv used is awful, overheating, bugs, battery life sucks, cameras lag, and doesnt compare to a stable cm7 which works completely fine and does everything ics can do anyway.. hmm... i guess everyone just keeps giving themselves false hope, although the possibility of a stable ics is much more than the chance of jellybean & as for the cm10/jellybean thing dont get your hopes up the signs of HWA are non existent and i really dont think they ever will be unless somebody makes a kernel from scratch which for a mobile device would take endless hours of work and testing each boot would probably get your through about 50 atrix phones from hard bricks etc... and i dont think our developers have the time or money to do so... even with donations.
its just not worth it, the atrix is a dying breed if you dont like cm7 then buy a new phone, its that simple, confuses me why everyone acts like cm7 is some sort of bugged crappy software that doesnt work? yet its still a very stable software.
i think everyone should stop concentrating on ICS and jellybean until we actually hear news that will be helpful to creating a stable build and in the mean time focus on improving cm7 with mods and other things, right now cm7 is basically abandoned and the thing its been abandoned for has been on hold for around 3 months.
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Click to collapse
Its not that simple. Once you've had a taste of Android 4.X, its nearly impossible to go back. I'm stuck on Epinter's CM10 because of that, every time I try switching back to a CM7 based rom I find it randomly jittery and with a lot of small annoyances. Both of which I never noticed before trying Joker's CM9.
Even when I switched from CM7 to CM9, I remember CM7 was more or less perfect in its current state. Work stopped on it because there's not much else that can be done with it. Its hit its peak, and for those not spoiled by the more polished versions of Android it is indeed the ideal rom for our device. That does not mean work should stop on ICS/JB, though. The big issue we have is the kernel, of which there are several projects in the works to port kernels from other devices. Its something that'll take (a lot of) time, but long term it'll be much better for our devices than making barely noticeable changes to Gingerbread roms.
With that said, you are right in that the ICS leak is more or less useless without source code. Crappy battery and display issues on some variants of Atrix completely ruin it.
Having the kernel source would solve many issues, but after Motorola abandoned the device it's very unlikely they'll commit any more resources into releasing the half working source code. Of course we'd like to see the source released as it existed under development, but from what I understand, the the source that gets released isn't always exactly the same as what they work with when they compile it and things like extremely helpful comments in the code get removed because of things like NDA's. And although many of the libs and drivers can be extracted from the ROM, the code to use them has been lost.
As it stands, the Atrix Rebirth Project is probably the best chance for seeing a fully functional kernel source for ICS and beyond. But as has been pointed out already, interest in the device has been dying, and even if the project does manage to make it happen, it's not going to happen overnight.
Jotokun said:
Its not that simple. Once you've had a taste of Android 4.X, its nearly impossible to go back. I'm stuck on Epinter's CM10 because of that, every time I try switching back to a CM7 based rom I find it randomly jittery and with a lot of small annoyances. Both of which I never noticed before trying Joker's CM9.
Even when I switched from CM7 to CM9, I remember CM7 was more or less perfect in its current state. Work stopped on it because there's not much else that can be done with it. Its hit its peak, and for those not spoiled by the more polished versions of Android it is indeed the ideal rom for our device. That does not mean work should stop on ICS/JB, though. The big issue we have is the kernel, of which there are several projects in the works to port kernels from other devices. Its something that'll take (a lot of) time, but long term it'll be much better for our devices than making barely noticeable changes to Gingerbread roms.
With that said, you are right in that the ICS leak is more or less useless without source code. Crappy battery and display issues on some variants of Atrix completely ruin it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
hmm i used pinters cm10 for a week and went back to MROM cm7 and customised it to my liking with ICS themes and text changers, looks just like ICS runs just as smooth as a buggy JB rom, thats the problem the performance of CM10 roms without HWA is about the same as a good CM7 rom... just with a few features like google now which nobody really uses anyway, although i understand where your coming from when it comes too the UI and animations on JB roms they are very nice but id rather sacrafice them and have a phone that will work 100%
I'm very naive to the inner workings of android
I also returned to mrom from epinters cm 10 and icsrom because of lack of camcorder or terrible battery life.
Now with mrom I have a very smooth launcher and all apps working. I do miss jellybeans nice interface, but what are the more fundamental improvements that gingerbread lacks? Besides feeling outdated and old of course :/
Sent from my MB860 using xda app-developers app
Zero usefulness. Novelty item at best.
It's interesting to read opinion of no-developers is it something useful or not. Only developers could say something about it. Also most of you are so pessimistic, complaining that developing is dying.
xda-developers is for site and forum for developers. If you think that developing is dying, come on, do something about. Join Atrix Rebirth Project, start to learn how to develop kernel and rom. There is a lot of guides here and on Internet. Instead of spending time on forum and waiting that someone else do it for you and for free. If you don't have time to learn, contribute on another way: support developers, donate money or device, try to find solution, use your contacts to get leaked sources...
The easiest way is to buy a new device and start complain after a while
I have been very pleased with the stock GB rom. I have a Nexus 7 and an old HTC Aria, both running the latest version of JB and, other than a more up-to-date appearance, there's really nothing I can't do on the Atrix that I can do on the JB devices.
Its amazing what the developers have been able to do with the HTC Aria. It has very little memory, but they have created virtually unlimited program memory by using an extended partition on the SD card. The Aria also runs JB almost flawlessly.
If JB could run on the Atrix 4G the way it runs on my Aria, I would use it. But from what I've read, it has a long way to go. I am not even sure I would even be able to root my Atrix, which has the latest GB update from Motorola.
Sent from my MB860 using xda app-developers app
Slymayer said:
I've got a question I tried to answer myself, but I couldn't resist to post it on the forum.
Is the ICS leak a great step forward for all Atrix users ?
For those who wanted HWA, fingerprint scanner, working camera, of course it is... But is it a step forward for the release of a STABLE CM10 with a STABLE kernel ? This question is more open to a debate than a simple answer.
This leak didn't provide any option for those who have the wrong tegrapart (Mine is OK), or a lapdock, or those who use Chrome and want a generally reliable ROM (Stability, I/O perfs, battery life). They have to make a compromise but we still didn't reach THE ROM(s) that makes everybody happy.
The missing thing to get the ROM(s) that will make us all happy is the kernel source... Why didn't we get it with the ICS leak ? Well let's exclude this question from this thread and maybe talk about it after this debate is (almost) closed.
Personally I'm happy to have this new ROM, it's fast, smooth etc. but my lapdock is still borked so I'm really frustrated not to have this awesome tablet display that works with EVERYTHING but not MOTOROLA's own peripheral... Damn it !
So, what's your case ? Of course you may have found satisfaction with the ICS leak, but are you as frustrated as I am to be this close to the ultimate goal ?
The debate is open, I hope I broke the ice for some people who are in my case and feel like forgotten.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah right ! talking about this leak ... is a >small< step foward !
Just imagine Michael Montuori out of here, Or the Bill ?! epinter !? Faux, or jocker that has made a wonderfull job and the other in the early days of the atrix .... all source code builder out of this atrix family at once !
Well ... Motorola doesnt have a great support for the moment ! as their Blur OS is ****ty slow ! :S
I own a Car dock, A HD Multimedia Dock and a great lapdock !
I approve that this is still frustrating (and i know the devs out there are NOT getting Paid enough for a better work than MOTOROLA itself,) that motorola own product doesnt have support yet ! but still have on a direct DHMI cable straight to the tv !! WTF ?!?!!
Well, its not going to change anything here, i mean this thread ... but .. well .. you know ! YEAH its awkward and " fais chier bordel" hahaha
Our devs are GREAT but unfortunately, we still need that damn MOTO support for their drivers source for the new OS :S
Meanwhile
sathelate said:
Well, its not going to change anything here, i mean this thread ... but .. well .. you know ! YEAH its awkward and " fais chier bordel" hahaha
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I would even say "Bordel à couilles de constructeur de mes deux !". I'm writing this using my lapock... On my tiny screen, with my main screen at 45° so I can still read what I'm writing. I dreamt about WT3.0 with working LAPDOCK, it would have been so gorgeous, but it's currently not happening. "Nique cette merde !", I'm buying a Windows Phone next year when the ecosystem gets more apps and stuff. The news are getting warmer for this OS ! The amazing keyboard made in WP7/8 will replace my lapdock I use as a keyboard.
Development IS actually dying, look at the Atrix 4G development section where there used to be several ROMs under active development there are now just a few. Nearly everything that can be done has been done with the exception of what the Atrix rebirth project is doing. But there is no guarantee of success. If you have the money or a device to donate to the rebirth project, great, by all means go for it. Maybe one of the other tegra based moto devices might help a bit too. Unfortanately I think it's pretty hard to hold any level of optimism for the device after such a long string of let downs.
Sent from my MB860 using xda app-developers app
I see the ICS leak as interesting but not overly useful.
Now, if they'd also leaked the source code, I don't doubt that the devs could have created a fully-features and stable ICS/JB within a couple of months. However, with no source for such a buggy leak, we're reliant on a few people trying to create a kernel almost from scratch. I wish them well, but I'm not holding my breath...
When you feel like the development is hopeless , waste all of your time and try fixing things yourself get a new phone.
BravoMotorola said:
When you feel like the development is hopeless , waste all of your time and try fixing things yourself get a new phone.
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Click to collapse
Like you? And you think that you're smart. That's exactly what vendors wish, get a new device. Bravo
Edit: With your latest posts in Atrix forum you're the same as maggedo or member with Atrix in name. Ups, you have Motorola
How long N4 will be the best device for you? What I see not so long
I think it's interesting how people work:
First everyone was crying about the fact, that Motorola left us out in the cold and now that we have a actually really good leak, people cry that it's not good enough... That's just sad. The leak is useful and it's a big step into the right direction. A lot of people put in hours of work for you (and for FREE!!!), to make this leak better. All you need is PATIENCE. Be grateful that some devs stick to this EOL-device and provide great work for us.
-Just my 2 cents-
Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk
BravoMotorola said:
When you feel like the development is hopeless , waste all of your time and try fixing things yourself get a new phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And... What about people who can't get a new device ? I bought mine like 6 months ago, it was for my birthday and I can't waste money on a newer phone like this.
But there must be some kind of "break-even" ahead.
How many hours of work and energy may be put from the most "valuable brains" into the leak (without having sourcecode), until they must decide: "enough is enough, it just will never turn out as "stable"?
From what I've understood there exists some good chances that maybe some day valuable parts of the XOOM kernel get migrated to the Atrix (see respective thread under development area).
May the last remaining devs of a dying device - whose work I greatly respect and appreciate! - join forces and turn more efforts into porting the xoom?