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Is there a reason why the dev community cannot get behind cyanogenmod and still get donated to? Is there some kind of politics involved that will not allow this relationship? I just think I would like to see the effort into one project that is solid, without all the themes and "personal" touches you see with everything else.
In a word it doesnt seem like much progress is being made, except for some screenshots from the dude and an alpha build from eugene. If Eugene, Som, Codeworkxs thedudesandroid, and the rest of the vibrant devs worked on a gingerbread based cyanogenmod, it would benefit everyone.
Move me, flame me, just dont one line answer me.
Yours to change and modify:
https://github.com/CyanogenMod
Ideologies differ. Work ethics differ. I think a move like this would be destined to fail.
Have you personally experienced both Macnut and Nero? Both ROMS are outstanding. I think the more fragmented the ROMS are, the more ideas, experiments, and innovation will occur. I think to push devs to a single common platform would be both stifling and detrimental to the android modding community as a whole.
Besides, all the devs have the same problem... Drivers. Until we start seeing Gingerbread leaks, all devs would have the same stumbling block anyway, whether they are working as one, or separately.
i'm fairly certain all CM ROMs have been halted and work has been pushed to CM7.0 Gingerbread based. With the Nexus S (NS) being the same thing with a few minor difference to all the other SGS phones and the NS source being openly available for people, we should see a true Gingerbread CM ROM for all the SGS phones once they figure out the necessary changes to make our variants work. This time it should be easier, thanks to all the Devs who came before and figured out Samsung's ass-backwards way of doing things.
Time and patience will reward with the greatest Android ROM the world has ever seen!
angryPirate12 said:
i'm fairly certain all CM ROMs have been halted and work has been pushed to CM7.0 Gingerbread based. With the Nexus S (NS) being the same thing with a few minor difference to all the other SGS phones and the NS source being openly available for people, we should see a true Gingerbread CM ROM for all the SGS phones once they figure out the necessary changes to make our variants work. This time it should be easier, thanks to all the Devs who came before and figured out Samsung's ass-backwards way of doing things.
Time and patience will reward with the greatest Android ROM the world has ever seen!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This makes me moist.
d33dvb said:
Is there a reason why the dev community cannot get behind cyanogenmod and still get donated to? Is there some kind of politics involved that will not allow this relationship? I just think I would like to see the effort into one project that is solid, without all the themes and "personal" touches you see with everything else.
In a word it doesnt seem like much progress is being made, except for some screenshots from the dude and an alpha build from eugene. If Eugene, Som, Codeworkxs thedudesandroid, and the rest of the vibrant devs worked on a gingerbread based cyanogenmod, it would benefit everyone.
Move me, flame me, just dont one line answer me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
my question for you, is why does it have to be cyanogenmod? Youre asking all devs to collaborate to come up with one big super-ROM, yet it will still only be under the name of one developer, Cyanogen?? This doesnt make much sense.
So basically what youre asking is, since you PERSONALLY would prefer to run cyanogenmod on your phone, you want all other Vibrant devs to concede their own projects to assist your personal favorite developer with his project??
Why doesnt CM help with a new Team Whiskey ROM?? If your answer is because CM is more popular and has more development-power in the Android world, then you have answered your own question in regards to the "politics" that may be behind it.
I feel a lot of people (not necessarily the OP) just seek the "cyanogenmod" title to their ROM, without even really knowing what it is. They just hear the name thrown around all over the place and want to feel like they are in the loop; which is just mindless, in my opinion.
Its great to have several devs, with several different projects. It gives the average user (non-dev) options, and different things to choose from and try.
If you went to a car show, and every car had the same exact engine in it, what would be interesting in that??
what a communist suggestion
I, personally, love that there are many diff ROM's to choose from. I love having that variety. I prefer <tw> ROM's, just because they theme it pretty much how I would theme a ROM (and they scream), If I was even remotely capable of Dev'ing. Eugene makes an awsome ROM too, But not to my personal taste. On my G1 I always used cm ROM's, but the way they work at this point that's not possible for a Vibrant. So I guess what I'm saying is, I'm glad they're not all concentrating on one ROM because we would still be waiting... stuck with RFS !
I just want that Cyanogen bluetooth stack on a regular (sans Touchwiz) Galaxy S rom with TV out. The Bluetoouth stack is the only reason why I am using Cyanogen outside of the speedy OS.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-GT-I9000 using Tapatalk
I get what you mean but I have to say that I love flashing different devs roms & kernels, I would hate to be slave to one idea...I could have gone iOs for that.....get it iOs 4! I kill myself sometimes...
vibrant
GingerR2JL4
TopShelf10 said:
my question for you, is why does it have to be cyanogenmod? Youre asking all devs to collaborate to come up with one big super-ROM, yet it will still only be under the name of one developer, Cyanogen?? This doesnt make much sense.
So basically what youre asking is, since you PERSONALLY would prefer to run cyanogenmod on your phone, you want all other Vibrant devs to concede their own projects to assist your personal favorite developer with his project??
Why doesnt CM help with a new Team Whiskey ROM?? If your answer is because CM is more popular and has more development-power in the Android world, then you have answered your own question in regards to the "politics" that may be behind it.
I feel a lot of people (not necessarily the OP) just seek the "cyanogenmod" title to their ROM, without even really knowing what it is. They just hear the name thrown around all over the place and want to feel like they are in the loop; which is just mindless, in my opinion.
Its great to have several devs, with several different projects. It gives the average user (non-dev) options, and different things to choose from and try.
If you went to a car show, and every car had the same exact engine in it, what would be interesting in that??
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed. It seems to be the "you want what you can't have" theory. It's going to be funny when there is finally a CM ROM and all these same ppl that wanted it are going to wonder why CM is so plain looking and isn't themed up. It's an endless cycle. CM offers support to multiple devices, which gets their name out there. But I can promise you if you've ran ROMs such as Nero + voodoo, even the best running CM isn't going to "blow it away" in performance, maybe some fun features, but that'll about do it.
I'm satisfied with TWs stuff. All I'm hoping for is that we can get drivers written to do our own ASOP roms, so we can one day have 2.3 and beyond.
im curious about this as well and being that i have no clue, i feel completely authorized to put in my .02 that i thought the primary reason we dont have cm for the galaxy was due to lack of aosp/drivers...
LOL, you sad bunch of folks think I have never flashed a rom on the vibrant? Sure I have, but they are all roms based off of samsuck files, with a theme pushed on top. This requires some skill and understanding, but it does not make you a "ROM D3V"
I am not in any way trying to push everyone to cyanogenmod, I am trying to get the "real devs" to work on things like GPS drivers and such as a whole, to benefit everyone, you think the tricks we learn as a group you cannot then use as an individual? You cannot say I am communist (lmao) because I want the devs to work together, I suppose that what people say about XDA is true, the users who are flaming me make it unbearable to have a real conversation. I mean just look there are several "FANBOY" posts already, and we are on post 13. No wonder the real devs ficking hate XDA. The sole reason I personally like cyan is because of the testing that it goes through, to make sure embarrassing bugs dont happen often. He has developed a rom for my G1, then both my Mytouch's and just miss running it on my vibrant, thats all. My G1 is sitting here running CM 6.1.0 and my phone still sits here on Ginger Clone, the best there is right now.
FYI when there was lack of drivers on the Dream/Magic someone re-wrote them, mmkay?
It has always seemed that the devs share fairly well. While they don't work together on one project, they share what is needed and form teams of likeminded people to push out better and better products. If you want to see what happens when you get everyone together and make them all focus on one big new release look at samsung itself. These small teams can operate with greater freedom to build and release mods and roms as they see fit. Xda is about sharing info and improving our machines. Would we really want to have gingerbread today without all the options and flavors that different dev teams put together. If you say yes, that's fine, but I like the variety and am happy to wait for what's next.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
Moved of: Samsung Vibrant > Vibrant Android Development
To: Samsung Vibrant > Vibrant General
CM is not really comparable to the XDA devs' ROMs. CM is a complete ground-up build from AOSP. Nero, Macnut, etc are not; they are mods of existing unofficial Samsung ROMs. (Not to imply that Eugene/Sombionix et al's work is anything less than quality).
mindaika said:
CM is not really comparable to the XDA devs' ROMs. CM is a complete ground-up build from AOSP. Nero, Macnut, etc are not; they are mods of existing unofficial Samsung ROMs. (Not to imply that Eugene/Sombionix et al's work is anything less than quality).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, that's the thing. The skill set involved in getting AOSP (and the rest of CM) building properly is a different skill set than modifying a Samsung released ROM.
The approaches are almost entirely opposite - whereas most ROMs here take what the vendor provides and replace the junky bits with stuff that works better, the AOSP-based ROMs such as CM start from a bare bones google source repository that never had any of that junk to begin with.
Both approaches have their merits. As should be obvious by now, the former results in much more rapid progress since you can start right away with a working build from Samsung. The latter approach can take substantially longer, since you don't have a working base to start from (especially with a device like the SGS, which has hardware very different from most CM-supported devices).
Eugene had an AOSP 2.1 rom pretty well built. Needed some kinks worked out, but there didn't seem to be a lot of interest because all everyone wanted was froyo. I'm sure we're probably see at least a couple of AOSP efforts if/when froyo officially drops.
angryPirate12 said:
i'm fairly certain all CM ROMs have been halted and work has been pushed to CM7.0 Gingerbread based. With the Nexus S (NS) being the same thing with a few minor difference to all the other SGS phones and the NS source being openly available for people, we should see a true Gingerbread CM ROM for all the SGS phones once they figure out the necessary changes to make our variants work. This time it should be easier, thanks to all the Devs who came before and figured out Samsung's ass-backwards way of doing things.
Time and patience will reward with the greatest Android ROM the world has ever seen!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yep, codeworkx and the CMSGS team have stopped worked on 6.1 and (along with Supercurio and others) are working on an AOSP Gingerbread port for SGS.
It makes sense--no point in continuing to try to build a 2.2 without source when the 2.3 source is already out.
Hello,
This was brought up in another thread that is now locked.This post asked the question.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=11287492&postcount=40
and this is the blog post by Cyanogen
http://www.cyanogenmod.com/home/a-note-on-unofficial-ports-and-how-to-get-it-right
From what I can make from the blog post that Cyanogen put up on the CM website the Epic 4g as well as the other Galaxy S CM ports are not backed by Cyanogen because they do not go through the normal chain of how they add their code into their source code tree.The Galaxy S CM github has many changes to the stock android code that could possible and probably does break the code from being compiled for other phones. The framework is modified to work with the Samsung RIL that our phones use. The CM team will make additions to the stock android code not modifiy the stock code itself. So from my understanding of thing this is why Cyanogen does not consider what the CMSGS team has done as a part of the mainline CM code base. I believe this goes for all the Galaxy S phones not just the Epic.
Does being backed by the CM team make it get done any quicker? If so....
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
Being backed by the Cm team would definitely speed up the porting process, Cyanogen had the Evo Release Client up and running in a little over a month without source
So its a matter of pulling the source together and prperly placing it into their source control so their build bot can properly dov what build bots do...build...then CM helps with the port process?
If I think I'm following that right...somone better start uploading code to Cyanogens t&c's(terms and conditions) so we can have some epic awesomesauce.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
Most importantly, no major hardware functionality should be broken.
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Click to collapse
What this statement implies is that no Cyanogenmod port is ever gonna be official right away; there's always an in-progress period where major functions are broken. Regardless of other issues, that's where our Epic port is at right now and part of the reason why it's not official.
Poryhack said:
What this statement implies is that no Cyanogenmod port is ever gonna be official right away; there's always an in-progress period where major functions are broken. Regardless of other issues, that's where our Epic port is at right now and part of the reason why it's not official.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
True but there is code that is changed in the Galaxy S port that doesn't get changed at all in other CM ports as far as I know.
If we had HTC Epic's instead of Samsung Epic's and still identical devices... CM would officially support the Epic.
Period. They can say whatever they want but we all know this to be the case. You can't tell me Samsung changes their code that much more then HTC... last I checked Sense was a much more in depth overall to the underlying OS then Touchwiz is.. but maybe not.
The thing is, HTC uses the same hardware across the board (snapdragon processors, same camera etc.) which makes Rom ports much much easier to pull off, whereas the Hummingbird in the Galaxy S is only in the Galaxy S and only the Unlocked Galaxies and Gsm have froyo source so far.
Thanks for osting this skeeter
Android Creative Syndicate- From spontaneous ingenuity, comes creative brilliance
063_XOBX said:
The thing is, HTC uses the same hardware across the board (snapdragon processors, same camera etc.) which makes Rom ports much much easier to pull off, whereas the Hummingbird in the Galaxy S is only in the Galaxy S and only the Unlocked Galaxies and Gsm have froyo source so far.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The changes in the code have nothing at all to do with the cpu its all for the radio which even having froyo source will not help a bit with.Its all in the way the code changes were done. Rather then adding to the base code in CM the code was directly changed which is what Cyanogen has an issue with doing so basically could and probably has broken the radio code for other cdma phones, I don't know what or if any of the code in the frameworks was changed for the gsm Galaxy S phones so I can't say for sure that it the source from the CMSGS github wouldn't work on another GSM phone I only know that changes were made to get it working on the Epic and Fascinate.I don't think what the CMSGS team did was wrong they did what they had to do to get things working and from the time I spent working on it it didn't seem like there was much input from the CM team at all but that was probably happening in another irc channel that I was not invited into if they were involved.I was hoping that the Galaxy S would have had more interest from the CM team as a whole I know a phone or two was collected and donated to at least one dev and i also heard that Koush was supposed to take over the Captivate port of CM I am not sure if that ever happened or not but the Epic and Fascinate were from the beginning the red headed step children of the Galaxy S line it really is too bad that there wasn't for developers around to help work on it and make an offical Cyanogen backed CM port.I blame it all on the Evo personally if the Epic came out first it would be the Epic sporting all the kernel and roms that you can find in the Evo forum instead we are left with a handful or less of devs and a phone that is far from the potential that it has.
This statement brings up one of my biggest questions I have for the epic forums that I have yet to understand. If a lack of devs are the biggest problem for the epic why is it they are not attempting to train anyone else. Here's my point. I have cataloged every bit (and still am) of info I know about themeing android and the samsung epic. I wrote guides breaking down every part of installing the tools necessary and using them so anyone just sitting down with a fresh windows and their first android phone would understand. Where are our dev guides besides "read developer.android.com". I've read it, I've set everything up. I've downloaded source, I've even ran make with success. But it does nothing without proprietary files. How do you plug them in. extract files.sh dont work without cm6 running on my phone. Where do we learn how to edit our build.prop, init.rc, compile drivers and modules. Joey krimm it's a great beginners source but what about updates since the stall between ubuntu 10 64 support, and 64 becoming the default. I feel like not only it's sammy and sprint at fault, but so are devs that arent open with their knowledge. The best gift this community could have gotten in all of this "down time"waiting was time spent learning. Devs stuck waiting on modems and source, start writing and teaching so when you get that source, you'll have a team behind you. That's the spirit of linux and it dont exist on xda's Samsung Epic Development section!
Sent from my SPH-D700 using Tapatalk
dreamsforgotten said:
This statement brings up one of my biggest questions I have for the epic forums that I have yet to understand. If a lack of devs are the biggest problem for the epic why is it they are not attempting to train anyone else. Here's my point. I have cataloged every bit (and still am) of info I know about themeing android and the samsung epic. I wrote guides breaking down every part of installing the tools necessary and using them so anyone just sitting down with a fresh windows and their first android phone would understand. Where are our dev guides besides "read developer.android.com". I've read it, I've set everything up. I've downloaded source, I've even ran make with success. But it does nothing without proprietary files. How do you plug them in. extract files.sh dont work without cm6 running on my phone. Where do we learn how to edit our build.prop, init.rc, compile drivers and modules. Joey krimm it's a great beginners source but what about updates since the stall between ubuntu 10 64 support, and 64 becoming the default. I feel like not only it's sammy and sprint at fault, but so are devs that arent open with their knowledge. The best gift this community could have gotten in all of this "down time"waiting was time spent learning. Devs stuck waiting on modems and source, start writing and teaching so when you get that source, you'll have a team behind you. That's the spirit of linux and it dont exist on xda's Samsung Epic Development section!
Sent from my SPH-D700 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Where's the thank spam? hah.
I've slowly been dipping myself into the Developer 'pool' for the epic if you will..and at first when I started working nobody really ever helped out..they just threw me a link and was like..start reading blah blah blah..
Reading only gets you so far; Imho you learn better when you've got the experience of working first hand with the material you're trying to learn.
dreamsforgotten said:
This statement brings up one of my biggest questions I have for the epic forums that I have yet to understand. If a lack of devs are the biggest problem for the epic why is it they are not attempting to train anyone else. Here's my point. I have cataloged every bit (and still am) of info I know about themeing android and the samsung epic. I wrote guides breaking down every part of installing the tools necessary and using them so anyone just sitting down with a fresh windows and their first android phone would understand. Where are our dev guides besides "read developer.android.com". I've read it, I've set everything up. I've downloaded source, I've even ran make with success. But it does nothing without proprietary files. How do you plug them in. extract files.sh dont work without cm6 running on my phone. Where do we learn how to edit our build.prop, init.rc, compile drivers and modules. Joey krimm it's a great beginners source but what about updates since the stall between ubuntu 10 64 support, and 64 becoming the default. I feel like not only it's sammy and sprint at fault, but so are devs that arent open with their knowledge. The best gift this community could have gotten in all of this "down time"waiting was time spent learning. Devs stuck waiting on modems and source, start writing and teaching so when you get that source, you'll have a team behind you. That's the spirit of linux and it dont exist on xda's Samsung Epic Development section!
Sent from my SPH-D700 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
When it comes to working on CM most of the work that needs to be done is all coding which we have very few if anyone java coders. Also you can use extract-files.sh on a phone running straight DK28 to get the propietary files needed to build CM with.When it comes to everything else most of the devs have taught themselves how to do the things they so by trial and error and alot of reading the internet. I know I have little coding skill so its would be hard to teach someone something you don't know how to do yourself and alot of the other things like putting togther device files to build android even on the google site has no real information on how to do it at all the best way I think is to just compare what the other phones use and piece it together from that.
Yet it still makes me wonder; why no epic/galaxy s support? Virtually every other phone, and even some tablets like the gtab, have CM support and even CM7 support. Even the HTC Hero, with obviously no source code for 2.2 or 2.3 and no official 2.2 ever to be released, has a working build of CM7. Is it pure incompetence of Epic developers? Is it a lack of interest? Is it simply cyanogen not wanting to support galaxy s devices? I really don't know, but I'd really like to.
theimpaler747 said:
Yet it still makes me wonder; why no epic/galaxy s support? Virtually every other phone, and even some tablets like the gtab, have CM support and even CM7 support. Even the HTC Hero, with obviously no source code for 2.2 or 2.3 and no official 2.2 ever to be released, has a working build of CM7. Is it pure incompetence of Epic developers? Is it a lack of interest? Is it simply cyanogen not wanting to support galaxy s devices? I really don't know, but I'd really like to.
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Click to collapse
From what I can see its not that Cyanogen doesn't want to support the galaxy s devices its that it seems they don't give any input to the devs that are working on CM for the galaxy s. They have basically split off from the main CM source tree itself and run their own source tree. It seemed like (and this is from the limited amount I saw on irc) that there was no input from the CM team they just let them work on their own. CM has ways to setup the code so the source tree remains workable across the board on all the devices it supports, the cmsgs team has just taken a different route on things and gone their own route thus making it not backed by cyanogen, was it the right way to do it who knows but it has made all the galaxy s devices redheaded step children in the eyes of Cyanogen and the CM team as a whole by the looks of it. I know from the point of view of having an Epic the major hold up to it is having coders with the proper skills to do the coding in general we had one coder working on it I don't know if he is still involved or not at this point. All I know is to make is a backed by Cyanogen CM port the coding that has been done so far would have to be completely redone in the ways that the rest of the CM team adds code to the CM source tree with as little to no modification of the stock CM code as possible.
Also I would like to add that I am not trying to put anyone down that is working on the CMSGS team they have done CM working on these devices and am in no way bad mouthing the work that has been done. This is just my view on things and why Cyanogen doesn't back the galaxy s CM ports.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using Tapatalk
theimpaler747 said:
Yet it still makes me wonder; why no epic/galaxy s support? Virtually every other phone, and even some tablets like the gtab, have CM support and even CM7 support. Even the HTC Hero, with obviously no source code for 2.2 or 2.3 and no official 2.2 ever to be released, has a working build of CM7. Is it pure incompetence of Epic developers? Is it a lack of interest? Is it simply cyanogen not wanting to support galaxy s devices? I really don't know, but I'd really like to.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, trying to comprehend everything that is going on here, I feel like the CMTeam does not feel the Epic is worth porting to CM7 due to it's delay on a FroYo source, which I am positive would make the Epic's porting much easier.
However, it still makes me wonder why they could not have used 2.1 to port to CM7, as like you said, the Hero has been able to do.
It also confuses me that the Captivate has even been able to run a Gingerbread port (I believe cyanogen) then. I realize that the Captivate has no 4G or a slide or anything, but the fact that they were willing to work off of 2.1 I assume gets me wondering why no one has tried making a CM port for the Epic's 2.1
I am trying to understand this as best as I can, so please forgive me if I seem to be giving false input on this conversation.
Its the time taken to port a phone, combined with the number of phones above yours on their list. The fact is they have a list of other phones they feel like investing their time in over the galaxy s line in general which is even more of a reason all knowledge of development on the Epic should be layed out even in pieces like the rest of the information here. Honestly thinking "leak it to noobnl, then we'll get all the goods" isn't going to cut it. Java coders, ubuntu fanatics who have compiled a few apps, and new people willing to learn should be putting heads together compiling new ****. If we dont start a group effort of making a bone stock aosp froyo altering the existing drivers were not going to be much further with source code. And it should be layed out here irc dont work for everyone.
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acer1096xxx said:
Well, trying to comprehend everything that is going on here, I feel like the CMTeam does not feel the Epic is worth porting to CM7 due to it's delay on a FroYo source, which I am positive would make the Epic's porting much easier.
However, it still makes me wonder why they could not have used 2.1 to port to CM7, as like you said, the Hero has been able to do.
It also confuses me that the Captivate has even been able to run a Gingerbread port (I believe cyanogen) then. I realize that the Captivate has no 4G or a slide or anything, but the fact that they were willing to work off of 2.1 I assume gets me wondering why no one has tried making a CM port for the Epic's 2.1
I am trying to understand this as best as I can, so please forgive me if I seem to be giving false input on this conversation.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But like I said, there's CM7 (Android 2.3 if you don't know) for the HTC hero, with no 2.2 or 2.3 source code. So why not us?
theimpaler747 said:
But like I said, there's CM7 (Android 2.3 if you don't know) for the HTC hero, with no 2.2 or 2.3 source code. So why not us?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Alright, this is what I believe.
The Hero does not have 4G, or a QWERTY keyboard, two things the Epic does have that could make a pure AOSP port more difficult without a source. Also, HTC runs Snapdragon throughout the whole system, making tweaks a lot more simpler than SGS's Hummingbird Processor, which uses something else (I can't remember) with their system as well.
The last part I'm not sure if that makes a big deal or not, since I have seen a (what I think) CM7 port for the Samsung Captivate, so it may simply be because of 4G and the QWERTY keyboard.
I see what you're saying though. I guess the CMTeam should have no problem making a CM7 port based off of the Epic's 2.1 source...maybe they're just waiting because 2.2 might make it easier and supposedly 2.2 is coming soon so there'd be no point in starting now...otherwise I have no clue.
acer1096xxx said:
Alright, this is what I believe.
The Hero does not have 4G, or a QWERTY keyboard, two things the Epic does have that could make a pure AOSP port more difficult without a source. Also, HTC runs Snapdragon throughout the whole system, making tweaks a lot more simpler than SGS's Hummingbird Processor, which uses something else (I can't remember) with their system as well.
The last part I'm not sure if that makes a big deal or not, since I have seen a (what I think) CM7 port for the Samsung Captivate, so it may simply be because of 4G and the QWERTY keyboard.
I see what you're saying though. I guess the CMTeam should have no problem making a CM7 port based off of the Epic's 2.1 source...maybe they're just waiting because 2.2 might make it easier and supposedly 2.2 is coming soon so there'd be no point in starting now...otherwise I have no clue.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think we also have 'limited functionality' w/ 2.1 as far as the phone's full capability.
2.2 will unlock some hidden potential IMO. Could be the reason why all the hubbub to 'wait for 2.2'.. again, just speculating.
Here's what Cyanogen said on the Official CyanogenMod Forums.
http://www.cyanogenmod.com/home/a-note-on-unofficial-ports-and-how-to-get-it-right
With this said, why don't we jump on the bandwagon and just join the CM team? Why don't we make this thing official (if we haven't tried already)? Just a thought, so don't kill me with your opinions. The Devs here are freakin' legit here and I'd like to see 'em do some of the work on the CM Team.
I trust the devs I download from because I follow their work. I don't need it to be "official". Besides, I like the personal touch and one-on-one support I get right here on the xda eris forum. And there's variety.
We could debate the politics of branding and what is CM and what is not CM. But the devs here disclose their sources, changes, known issues and brand their roms as uniquely their own while providing the support and updates. I don't think there's any confusion as to what is 'official' and what is not as the Android Police article referenced in CM's statement implies.
+1. The devs here are excellent, and the devs that base there ROMs on CM list them as "based" on CM not the official CM ROM. I'm not aware of any confusion that this has caused. I'm also not sure what creative constraints would be put on our devs if they went CM. I like the way they individualize the roms for thier personalities and their audiences. I also am not sure what benefit would come with being an "official" CM rom. Just my 2 cents.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not discrediting the Developers that cook these ROM by ANY MEANS whatsoever. They do incredible work with what they push, but here's what I'm saying. The CM ROMS are based off of Official CM Source Code, yes, but I think we'd be making it way easier on ourselves and the developers if we were an actual part of CyanogenMod. If we were a part of CM, then we'd get the CM ROMS as perfect as they can get and THEN the developers can add their own customization to a ROM based off of the Eris Release of CyanogenMod. They all are already doing the work that it would take to actually /BE/ a part of the CyanogenMod team, so why not get on with CyanogenMod so we can be official, and THEN the devs can customize and tweak ROMS they way they see fit?
Once again, absolutely NO discredit to the developers here, and I understand what it takes to keep these ROMS current and I am very appreciative of their work.
The CM ROMs that we have are either built from CM source or ported from the Hero builds already. I'm not really sure what this would give us other than maybe a "go team go" feeling and maybe a little more help than we already get. But the Eris and CDMA Hero are so similar, that doesn't matter much in my opinion as long as any Hero issues get worked out.
The CM buildbots are just building from source and posting the results, much like you would get if you ran EasyDev or did it manually. Now, there's a lot of work going on before that with the code, of course. But... That's what we use too.
I'm not against this at all. It just means that someone will have to 1) want to do it 2) have the time 3) convince Team Douche to let them in. I seem to remember that someone asked early on and the response was that we had to send them an Eris. This might have changed.
This comes up every so often. I guess one of us can find out what we would need to do at least...
Nothing would really change for the end user if we became official cm at this point. Basically one of the devs here that builds from source would submit their vendor tree to the cm source and they would be responsible for maintaining it just like we do now. The only real difference would be that it would get built by the cm build bot and nightly's would be released. I tweeted to cyanogen about getting my 2.2 tree in there along time ago when 2.2 was new but either I did it wrong(not a twitter person lol) or it just got lost in the many many tweets that go through cyanogens account. I never really pushed the issue more because of the extra time it would take me personally and it was just easier to work on my own schedule.
The only added benefit would be that maybe if there was an issue we could not fix then the cm team would take an extra look at our specific phone to help out but really since our phone is so close to the hero and it has official support they sort of fix most of our bugs anyway. I've personally always tried to give the cm team all the credit they deserve(which is alot) and I think the other dev's do the same.
Here's what Cyanogen posted up to www.cyanogenmod.com a week or so again. It looks like we'd need an interested dev here to stop by #cyanogenmod-dev on Freenode to start the process.
I think (and I use xtrSENSE, so I could be wrong) that a lot of people would like and "official" CM port for the Eris, just so they'd have "peace of mind" knowing they've got something "official."
And again, as we've seen mentioned in this post, it couldn't hurt to ask. Provided Team Douche doesn't actually want an Eris, we only stand to gain extra help on our ports.
Cyanogen said:
There’s been some recent talk about unofficial versions of CyanogenMod being created and released on sites like XDA, with large amounts of missing features and broken functionality, and I just wanted to talk about our position on this.
An “official” CyanogenMod version is one that uses our code review system, our source repository, and our mirror network. It should look, act, and feel like CM on any other device, and more importantly, it should follow our release schedules (which is a “when it’s ready” kind of thing, but we do plan our final/RC releases when we feel it’s ready). Most importantly, no major hardware functionality should be broken.
We want to see CM available for every device out there, and our infrastructure (and our developer community) is there for anyone to use. We spend a lot of time making new releases of Android backward-compatible with devices that are not ready for them, and we also spend much time making all of these (sometimes not so pretty) changes co-exist together without breaking other devices. The more eyes on your code, the better it will be.
That said, as much as we’d like it to be, the CMSGS project is not yet an official part of CyanogenMod. There are also a number of other unofficial ports out there which haven’t been submitted to us that we’d love to include. If you’re interested, stop by #cyanogenmod-dev on Freenode. If you didn’t get it from our mirror network or the CM forums, don’t expect it to be up to our standards.
The biggest thing to keep in mind when porting to a new device is to think about how your change is going to affect other devices. This is the biggest reason why we aren’t supporting Samsung devices other than the Nexus S yet. Don’t change hardcoded default values just to suit your device. Use the configuration options available, or add new ones with the original values as defaults. Do a build for another unrelated device after you make your changes (it helps to have another device to test with, of course) and verify it as well. Android was made for this, so do it right.
Like I’ve said so many times before, CyanogenMod is all about the community. And our community can help you too. I’d love to see more of these ports contributed to the project- it’s only going to make things better. We’ve grown from just a mod to what I’d call an “Android distribution” and we need to keep our standards high.
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Oh no, does this mean we're all running unofficial CM ROMs ?
Wait, everything is working fine though... Official, unofficial, pffft
hallstevenson said:
Oh no, does this mean we're all running unofficial CM ROMs ?
Wait, everything is working fine though... Official, unofficial, pffft
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+1 10 char......
A dev would have to maintain the device and be committed to building it up, like Darchstar was (is?) for the Hero CDMA. It really all depends on the Dev/Devs for the device, for example I've seen Cyanogen say in his twitter that he would also like to see the Dream/Saphhire continue to be developed for but no one has stepped up to maintain it. I can also only imagine that there are some qualifications for someone to maintain a device. Here is a list of the current maintainers for the devices
https://github.com/cvpcs/android_vendor_cyanogen/blob/gingerbread/CHANGELOG.mkdn
Yeah, I can understand that. That's all I was saying, though. If they were doing all of the same work anyway I just thought it would be nice to have. I also didn't know if anyone had pursued this in the past, but seeing as how Conap had already tried I think I'm good with that. I also have no problems running the unofficial ROMs, just so you know. Thanks, guys!
It's not like we just want it to be official... but porting a ROM has its downsides. There's nothing to say devs couldn't take a ROM that is NATIVELY supported for the eris (and not for the hero) and do exactly what they already do... we would just be cutting out work for them and it would definitely effect the end user.
Hungry Man said:
It's not like we just want it to be official... but porting a ROM has its downsides. There's nothing to say devs couldn't take a ROM that is NATIVELY supported for the eris (and not for the hero) and do exactly what they already do... we would just be cutting out work for them and it would definitely effect the end user.
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the way i do it is best for me,,and seems to be going fine,,, the cm7 ports have been alot better then the froyo ,, and alot faster ,, look how long it took the froyo camera to work,, gb the camera works outta the box,,
Hungry Man said:
It's not like we just want it to be official... but porting a ROM has its downsides. There's nothing to say devs couldn't take a ROM that is NATIVELY supported for the eris (and not for the hero) and do exactly what they already do... we would just be cutting out work for them and it would definitely effect the end user.
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There is more than one definition of porting that people are using around here.
1) Porting to an unsupported device = compiling source, building a vendor tree, and getting it to work on said device (This is basically what the CyanogenMod team would do to make it an official build, although they would integrate the changes into the main source. The changes would mostly still be in a separate vendor tree in the repo. And it would be 'official'. From a practical/technical view, what workshed is doing is the same thing that the CM team would do.)
2) Porting an existing build to an unsupported device = taking an existing, already compiled ROM and making it work on said device (This is what tazz is doing with the Heroc build. This works out well when going from the Heroc.)
Anyone, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure that I have that right.
The only downside that I see from either of these is MAYBE not getting quite the support that we would get if the Eris had an 'official' build. I really don't think it's affecting much of anything, IMHO. It might in the future as the Heroc and Eris become more and more dated devices. But then, many of you won't really care because you're kids will be using them as mp3 players anyway while you use your fancy, new quad core HTC Destroyer 6G. (What's a Beiber?)
gnarlyc said:
There is more than one definition of porting that people are using around here.
1) Porting to an unsupported device = compiling source, building a vendor tree, and getting it to work on said device (This is basically what the CyanogenMod team would do to make it an official build, although they would integrate the changes into the main source. The changes would mostly still be in a separate vendor tree in the repo. And it would be 'official'. From a practical/technical view, what workshed is doing is the same thing that the CM team would do.)
2) Porting an existing build to an unsupported device = taking an existing, already compiled ROM and making it work on said device (This is what tazz is doing with the Heroc build. This works out well when going from the Heroc.)
Anyone, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure that I have that right.
The only downside that I see from either of these is MAYBE not getting quite the support that we would get if the Eris had an 'official' build. I really don't think it's affecting much of anything, IMHO. It might in the future as the Heroc and Eris become more and more dated devices. But then, many of you won't really care because you're kids will be using them as mp3 players anyway while you use your fancy, new quad core HTC Destroyer 6G. (What's a Beiber?)
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I thought it was a girl
tazzpatriot said:
I thought it was a girl
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Its a dude.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zb64y6Nvs0
refthemc said:
Its a dude.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zb64y6Nvs0
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nope still a girl
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwIa2S0YQs4
FYI: http://twitter.com/cyanogen/status/45246447385452544
@cyanogen said:
@Algamer we don't officially support the eris, it would be nice if someone doing the porting joined up with us though
about 8 hours ago via web in reply to Algamerhttp://twitter.com/Algamer/status/45235578886815744http://twitter.com/Algamer/status/45235578886815744
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I think OUR devs are doing just fine. Why change now?
wildstang83
wildstang83 said:
I think OUR devs are doing just fine. Why change now?
wildstang83
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Our devs are doing more than just fine, especially considering the amount of development we STILL have going on even though the Eris was a short-lived device that was EOL'd after like 8 months, was mid-range compared to the original Droid, and is a pretty niche device being MDPI on Verizon...
Why change now? That's a good question and I don't have a great answer. Like some have said on this post, maybe we'll get more support with bugs, etc. Additionally, a lot of the users here on XDA are looking for consistency. Since many who read and post here lack the skill set to do any meaningful ROM development themselves, they rely on the kindness of willing devs. However, devs will often add their own "personal touches" to their ROMs, which is great and well within their right to do. Having said that, many users are just looking to for something where they know, "Oh OK, so this is the base CM ROM that's officially distributed."
Personally, I don't care whether we have an "official" CM build or not for the Eris. I'm pretty reserved when it comes to ROMs for everyday use and am still using xtrSENSE as my default. The only reason I posted up cyanogen's recent tweet was to show that cyanogen himself is well-aware of the Eris development, is personally following the Eris ports, and is open to a partnership. My hope is that, by bridging communication, I am doing my part in helping to expose any possible mutual benefit (Eris XDA devs, ROM end-users, and Team Douche at CM) that could be gained by considering an "official" build. Ultimately, I understand that this is a decision that can only be made by the devs and also, not fulling understanding ROM development or having the skill set myself, I believe they are in the best position to make that decision. Like I said, I'm merely acting as a messenger, bringing this communication to light on our forum.
I've got a question I tried to answer myself, but I couldn't resist to post it on the forum.
Is the ICS leak a great step forward for all Atrix users ?
For those who wanted HWA, fingerprint scanner, working camera, of course it is... But is it a step forward for the release of a STABLE CM10 with a STABLE kernel ? This question is more open to a debate than a simple answer.
This leak didn't provide any option for those who have the wrong tegrapart (Mine is OK), or a lapdock, or those who use Chrome and want a generally reliable ROM (Stability, I/O perfs, battery life). They have to make a compromise but we still didn't reach THE ROM(s) that makes everybody happy.
The missing thing to get the ROM(s) that will make us all happy is the kernel source... Why didn't we get it with the ICS leak ? Well let's exclude this question from this thread and maybe talk about it after this debate is (almost) closed.
Personally I'm happy to have this new ROM, it's fast, smooth etc. but my lapdock is still borked so I'm really frustrated not to have this awesome tablet display that works with EVERYTHING but not MOTOROLA's own peripheral... Damn it !
So, what's your case ? Of course you may have found satisfaction with the ICS leak, but are you as frustrated as I am to be this close to the ultimate goal ?
The debate is open, I hope I broke the ice for some people who are in my case and feel like forgotten.
I think that leak does not come with the source code. Thus there will not be any practical improvement right now.
Or, most likely ever. I doubt things will go much farther, and I'm usually the optimistic one
no chance
nope, i think the ics leak was just a one off leak from what motorola actually got round to doing before they abandoned the project, which personally is really bad the roms are just crappy (no offence to developers but the lack of resources means they will always be crappy), everyone says the roms are good but every ics rom iv used is awful, overheating, bugs, battery life sucks, cameras lag, and doesnt compare to a stable cm7 which works completely fine and does everything ics can do anyway.. hmm... i guess everyone just keeps giving themselves false hope, although the possibility of a stable ics is much more than the chance of jellybean & as for the cm10/jellybean thing dont get your hopes up the signs of HWA are non existent and i really dont think they ever will be unless somebody makes a kernel from scratch which for a mobile device would take endless hours of work and testing each boot would probably get your through about 50 atrix phones from hard bricks etc... and i dont think our developers have the time or money to do so... even with donations.
its just not worth it, the atrix is a dying breed if you dont like cm7 then buy a new phone, its that simple, confuses me why everyone acts like cm7 is some sort of bugged crappy software that doesnt work? yet its still a very stable software.
i think everyone should stop concentrating on ICS and jellybean until we actually hear news that will be helpful to creating a stable build and in the mean time focus on improving cm7 with mods and other things, right now cm7 is basically abandoned and the thing its been abandoned for has been on hold for around 3 months.
Pixelguy said:
nope, i think the ics leak was just a one off leak from what motorola actually got round to doing before they abandoned the project, which personally is really bad the roms are just crappy (no offence to developers but the lack of resources means they will always be crappy), everyone says the roms are good but every ics rom iv used is awful, overheating, bugs, battery life sucks, cameras lag, and doesnt compare to a stable cm7 which works completely fine and does everything ics can do anyway.. hmm... i guess everyone just keeps giving themselves false hope, although the possibility of a stable ics is much more than the chance of jellybean & as for the cm10/jellybean thing dont get your hopes up the signs of HWA are non existent and i really dont think they ever will be unless somebody makes a kernel from scratch which for a mobile device would take endless hours of work and testing each boot would probably get your through about 50 atrix phones from hard bricks etc... and i dont think our developers have the time or money to do so... even with donations.
its just not worth it, the atrix is a dying breed if you dont like cm7 then buy a new phone, its that simple, confuses me why everyone acts like cm7 is some sort of bugged crappy software that doesnt work? yet its still a very stable software.
i think everyone should stop concentrating on ICS and jellybean until we actually hear news that will be helpful to creating a stable build and in the mean time focus on improving cm7 with mods and other things, right now cm7 is basically abandoned and the thing its been abandoned for has been on hold for around 3 months.
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Its not that simple. Once you've had a taste of Android 4.X, its nearly impossible to go back. I'm stuck on Epinter's CM10 because of that, every time I try switching back to a CM7 based rom I find it randomly jittery and with a lot of small annoyances. Both of which I never noticed before trying Joker's CM9.
Even when I switched from CM7 to CM9, I remember CM7 was more or less perfect in its current state. Work stopped on it because there's not much else that can be done with it. Its hit its peak, and for those not spoiled by the more polished versions of Android it is indeed the ideal rom for our device. That does not mean work should stop on ICS/JB, though. The big issue we have is the kernel, of which there are several projects in the works to port kernels from other devices. Its something that'll take (a lot of) time, but long term it'll be much better for our devices than making barely noticeable changes to Gingerbread roms.
With that said, you are right in that the ICS leak is more or less useless without source code. Crappy battery and display issues on some variants of Atrix completely ruin it.
Having the kernel source would solve many issues, but after Motorola abandoned the device it's very unlikely they'll commit any more resources into releasing the half working source code. Of course we'd like to see the source released as it existed under development, but from what I understand, the the source that gets released isn't always exactly the same as what they work with when they compile it and things like extremely helpful comments in the code get removed because of things like NDA's. And although many of the libs and drivers can be extracted from the ROM, the code to use them has been lost.
As it stands, the Atrix Rebirth Project is probably the best chance for seeing a fully functional kernel source for ICS and beyond. But as has been pointed out already, interest in the device has been dying, and even if the project does manage to make it happen, it's not going to happen overnight.
Jotokun said:
Its not that simple. Once you've had a taste of Android 4.X, its nearly impossible to go back. I'm stuck on Epinter's CM10 because of that, every time I try switching back to a CM7 based rom I find it randomly jittery and with a lot of small annoyances. Both of which I never noticed before trying Joker's CM9.
Even when I switched from CM7 to CM9, I remember CM7 was more or less perfect in its current state. Work stopped on it because there's not much else that can be done with it. Its hit its peak, and for those not spoiled by the more polished versions of Android it is indeed the ideal rom for our device. That does not mean work should stop on ICS/JB, though. The big issue we have is the kernel, of which there are several projects in the works to port kernels from other devices. Its something that'll take (a lot of) time, but long term it'll be much better for our devices than making barely noticeable changes to Gingerbread roms.
With that said, you are right in that the ICS leak is more or less useless without source code. Crappy battery and display issues on some variants of Atrix completely ruin it.
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hmm i used pinters cm10 for a week and went back to MROM cm7 and customised it to my liking with ICS themes and text changers, looks just like ICS runs just as smooth as a buggy JB rom, thats the problem the performance of CM10 roms without HWA is about the same as a good CM7 rom... just with a few features like google now which nobody really uses anyway, although i understand where your coming from when it comes too the UI and animations on JB roms they are very nice but id rather sacrafice them and have a phone that will work 100%
I'm very naive to the inner workings of android
I also returned to mrom from epinters cm 10 and icsrom because of lack of camcorder or terrible battery life.
Now with mrom I have a very smooth launcher and all apps working. I do miss jellybeans nice interface, but what are the more fundamental improvements that gingerbread lacks? Besides feeling outdated and old of course :/
Sent from my MB860 using xda app-developers app
Zero usefulness. Novelty item at best.
It's interesting to read opinion of no-developers is it something useful or not. Only developers could say something about it. Also most of you are so pessimistic, complaining that developing is dying.
xda-developers is for site and forum for developers. If you think that developing is dying, come on, do something about. Join Atrix Rebirth Project, start to learn how to develop kernel and rom. There is a lot of guides here and on Internet. Instead of spending time on forum and waiting that someone else do it for you and for free. If you don't have time to learn, contribute on another way: support developers, donate money or device, try to find solution, use your contacts to get leaked sources...
The easiest way is to buy a new device and start complain after a while
I have been very pleased with the stock GB rom. I have a Nexus 7 and an old HTC Aria, both running the latest version of JB and, other than a more up-to-date appearance, there's really nothing I can't do on the Atrix that I can do on the JB devices.
Its amazing what the developers have been able to do with the HTC Aria. It has very little memory, but they have created virtually unlimited program memory by using an extended partition on the SD card. The Aria also runs JB almost flawlessly.
If JB could run on the Atrix 4G the way it runs on my Aria, I would use it. But from what I've read, it has a long way to go. I am not even sure I would even be able to root my Atrix, which has the latest GB update from Motorola.
Sent from my MB860 using xda app-developers app
Slymayer said:
I've got a question I tried to answer myself, but I couldn't resist to post it on the forum.
Is the ICS leak a great step forward for all Atrix users ?
For those who wanted HWA, fingerprint scanner, working camera, of course it is... But is it a step forward for the release of a STABLE CM10 with a STABLE kernel ? This question is more open to a debate than a simple answer.
This leak didn't provide any option for those who have the wrong tegrapart (Mine is OK), or a lapdock, or those who use Chrome and want a generally reliable ROM (Stability, I/O perfs, battery life). They have to make a compromise but we still didn't reach THE ROM(s) that makes everybody happy.
The missing thing to get the ROM(s) that will make us all happy is the kernel source... Why didn't we get it with the ICS leak ? Well let's exclude this question from this thread and maybe talk about it after this debate is (almost) closed.
Personally I'm happy to have this new ROM, it's fast, smooth etc. but my lapdock is still borked so I'm really frustrated not to have this awesome tablet display that works with EVERYTHING but not MOTOROLA's own peripheral... Damn it !
So, what's your case ? Of course you may have found satisfaction with the ICS leak, but are you as frustrated as I am to be this close to the ultimate goal ?
The debate is open, I hope I broke the ice for some people who are in my case and feel like forgotten.
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Yeah right ! talking about this leak ... is a >small< step foward !
Just imagine Michael Montuori out of here, Or the Bill ?! epinter !? Faux, or jocker that has made a wonderfull job and the other in the early days of the atrix .... all source code builder out of this atrix family at once !
Well ... Motorola doesnt have a great support for the moment ! as their Blur OS is ****ty slow ! :S
I own a Car dock, A HD Multimedia Dock and a great lapdock !
I approve that this is still frustrating (and i know the devs out there are NOT getting Paid enough for a better work than MOTOROLA itself,) that motorola own product doesnt have support yet ! but still have on a direct DHMI cable straight to the tv !! WTF ?!?!!
Well, its not going to change anything here, i mean this thread ... but .. well .. you know ! YEAH its awkward and " fais chier bordel" hahaha
Our devs are GREAT but unfortunately, we still need that damn MOTO support for their drivers source for the new OS :S
Meanwhile
sathelate said:
Well, its not going to change anything here, i mean this thread ... but .. well .. you know ! YEAH its awkward and " fais chier bordel" hahaha
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I would even say "Bordel à couilles de constructeur de mes deux !". I'm writing this using my lapock... On my tiny screen, with my main screen at 45° so I can still read what I'm writing. I dreamt about WT3.0 with working LAPDOCK, it would have been so gorgeous, but it's currently not happening. "Nique cette merde !", I'm buying a Windows Phone next year when the ecosystem gets more apps and stuff. The news are getting warmer for this OS ! The amazing keyboard made in WP7/8 will replace my lapdock I use as a keyboard.
Development IS actually dying, look at the Atrix 4G development section where there used to be several ROMs under active development there are now just a few. Nearly everything that can be done has been done with the exception of what the Atrix rebirth project is doing. But there is no guarantee of success. If you have the money or a device to donate to the rebirth project, great, by all means go for it. Maybe one of the other tegra based moto devices might help a bit too. Unfortanately I think it's pretty hard to hold any level of optimism for the device after such a long string of let downs.
Sent from my MB860 using xda app-developers app
I see the ICS leak as interesting but not overly useful.
Now, if they'd also leaked the source code, I don't doubt that the devs could have created a fully-features and stable ICS/JB within a couple of months. However, with no source for such a buggy leak, we're reliant on a few people trying to create a kernel almost from scratch. I wish them well, but I'm not holding my breath...
When you feel like the development is hopeless , waste all of your time and try fixing things yourself get a new phone.
BravoMotorola said:
When you feel like the development is hopeless , waste all of your time and try fixing things yourself get a new phone.
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Like you? And you think that you're smart. That's exactly what vendors wish, get a new device. Bravo
Edit: With your latest posts in Atrix forum you're the same as maggedo or member with Atrix in name. Ups, you have Motorola
How long N4 will be the best device for you? What I see not so long
I think it's interesting how people work:
First everyone was crying about the fact, that Motorola left us out in the cold and now that we have a actually really good leak, people cry that it's not good enough... That's just sad. The leak is useful and it's a big step into the right direction. A lot of people put in hours of work for you (and for FREE!!!), to make this leak better. All you need is PATIENCE. Be grateful that some devs stick to this EOL-device and provide great work for us.
-Just my 2 cents-
Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk
BravoMotorola said:
When you feel like the development is hopeless , waste all of your time and try fixing things yourself get a new phone.
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And... What about people who can't get a new device ? I bought mine like 6 months ago, it was for my birthday and I can't waste money on a newer phone like this.
But there must be some kind of "break-even" ahead.
How many hours of work and energy may be put from the most "valuable brains" into the leak (without having sourcecode), until they must decide: "enough is enough, it just will never turn out as "stable"?
From what I've understood there exists some good chances that maybe some day valuable parts of the XOOM kernel get migrated to the Atrix (see respective thread under development area).
May the last remaining devs of a dying device - whose work I greatly respect and appreciate! - join forces and turn more efforts into porting the xoom?
Coming from the Epic, and then from the S3, I have noticed the fragmentation of Android with just the dilution of good development.
With that said, I acknowledge I am a user, not a Developer. I've tried to get interested in development, it is just not where my passion lies.
This is one of those useless posts you see on XDA, however, I feel like there is not much going on in this forum so maybe this is the best discussion we could have.
Take Apple, they have one product to focus on, no one to share the spotlight with. Android on the other hand has several, I have no idea how many, to share the spot light with. S3, S4, S5, Oppo, One, name your poison.
I say all this because I remember back to the Epic... It was Epic. The phone was amazing when it came out, the development was even better.
Now that I'm on the S4, while I don't want to take away anything from what the developers on this phone have done, it is not their fault, but developers will flock to where the demand is. And it just doesn't seem to be here.
Maybe this is Sprints fault? I stay with Sprint because they're the cheapest option I have. Certainly not the best, but definitely the cheapest.
Just trying to promote a discussion, not a flame war. Start now.
socos25 said:
Coming from the Epic, and then from the S3, I have noticed the fragmentation of Android with just the dilution of good development.
With that said, I acknowledge I am a user, not a Developer. I've tried to get interested in development, it is just not where my passion lies.
This is one of those useless posts you see on XDA, however, I feel like there is not much going on in this forum so maybe this is the best discussion we could have.
Take Apple, they have one product to focus on, no one to share the spotlight with. Android on the other hand has several, I have no idea how many, to share the spot light with. S3, S4, S5, Oppo, One, name your poison.
I say all this because I remember back to the Epic... It was Epic. The phone was amazing when it came out, the development was even better.
Now that I'm on the S4, while I don't want to take away anything from what the developers on this phone have done, it is not their fault, but developers will flock to where the demand is. And it just doesn't seem to be here.
Maybe this is Sprints fault? I stay with Sprint because they're the cheapest option I have. Certainly not the best, but definitely the cheapest.
Just trying to promote a discussion, not a flame war. Start now.
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With unified builds, awesome devs are still contributing to our device! Its cool that a talented dev who builds aosp but is with verizon can build for us too. There is no shortage of great development going on, but I'll admit the sprint s4 forums are not as active as I remember the e4gt forums being.
To address your other point, sure - the sheer amount of android devices available will mean the pool of talented devs are spread more thinly across the spectrum of devices, but this community rocks and with a little google-fu (xda helps those who help themselves) I don't think development has really stalled. The forums are just a little less active. What IS a shame is that users here will drive talented devs away from releasing their work publicly on the forums by driving them insane with questions that have been answered 100s of times, petty politics, and flame wars, etc.
But at the end of the day, I would rather have an open OS with a vibrant (or dull) community than a locked down device I can never truly have full control over. But frequent upgrades have always been pushed by manufacturers, at the end of the day profits are the bottom line for them. Thats what is so great about this community, is that the devs here do work that would have gotten them a decent commission or wage elsewhere, FOR FREE. God bless :good::highfive:
All good points, and I would have to say I agree with you, especially with the shame that developers sometimes are driven away by lazy users.
mxmr said:
With unified builds, awesome devs are still contributing to our device! Its cool that a talented dev who builds aosp but is with verizon can build for us too. There is no shortage of great development going on, but I'll admit the sprint s4 forums are not as active as I remember the e4gt forums being.
To address your other point, sure - the sheer amount of android devices available will mean the pool of talented devs are spread more thinly across the spectrum of devices, but this community rocks and with a little google-fu (xda helps those who help themselves) I don't think development has really stalled. The forums are just a little less active. What IS a shame is that users here will drive talented devs away from releasing their work publicly on the forums by driving them insane with questions that have been answered 100s of times, petty politics, and flame wars, etc.
But at the end of the day, I would rather have an open OS with a vibrant (or dull) community than a locked down device I can never truly have full control over. But frequent upgrades have always been pushed by manufacturers, at the end of the day profits are the bottom line for them. Thats what is so great about this community, is that the devs here do work that would have gotten them a decent commission or wage elsewhere, FOR FREE. God bless :good::highfive:
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I'm not a developer either (well of any roms/android mods at least). But as a long time computer power user and burgeoning programmer (3rd year comp sci major) the development on the S4 is very lack luster. We could get into comparing S4 vs development on older platforms, but I'd rather just discuss the generally bad development in the sprint S4 non-original android dev. forum. Most roms are not suited for daily drivers. I have personally tried 2-3 different versions of Sac's Rom and negalite's rom( as well as 1 try on various other roms) and none was with out major flaws.
The problem as I see it is this: The demand is for the newest rom with the most up to date android features. So as rom developers are getting closer to making a stable working version of their roms, Sprint releases an update at which point most developers switch and start working on new release with out ever making a fully functioning rom. To make matters worse most Rom's are presented as a finished product. Some have a known issues section in the first post ,but I challenge any one who disagrees with me to find a known issues section on a rom that actually contains all the know issues. It doesn't exsist. Instead each user is left to download an unfinished product and only after discovering an issue and digging though 10 pages of forums you find others have the same issue and that there may or may not be a soultion. How f'ing hard is it when a god damn issues is reported to update the orginal post?????? I understand these developers are doing this out of the good of their hearts, but anything worth doing is worth doing correctly. If it is to much work to keep an up to date list of ALL known issues, have one of the roms users do so. Not much work for one fan of a rom to keep list of issues if dev cant be bothered.
You help no one when custom roms break things working in the stock version and present it as a working rom. Custom roms used to add fucntion to a device now, it adds somethings and breaks others. Till this trend changes, the best rom is stock rooted + w/e mod a user desires. When a bunch of things dont work label your Rom alpha when most things work call it beta and only when everything works call it stable. This kind of common sense would improve everyone's experience greatly.
mysongranhills said:
I'm not a developer either (well of any roms/android mods at least). But as a long time computer power user and burgeoning programmer (3rd year comp sci major) the development on the S4 is very lack luster. We could get into comparing S4 vs development on older platforms, but I'd rather just discuss the generally bad development in the sprint S4 non-original android dev. forum. Most roms are not suited for daily drivers. I have personally tried 2-3 different versions of Sac's Rom and negalite's rom( as well as 1 try on various other roms) and none was with out major flaws.
The problem as I see it is this: The demand is for the newest rom with the most up to date android features. So as rom developers are getting closer to making a stable working version of their roms, Sprint releases an update at which point most developers switch and start working on new release with out ever making a fully functioning rom. To make matters worse most Rom's are presented as a finished product. Some have a known issues section in the first post ,but I challenge any one who disagrees with me to find a known issues section on a rom that actually contains all the know issues. It doesn't exsist. Instead each user is left to download an unfinished product and only after discovering an issue and digging though 10 pages of forums you find others have the same issue and that there may or may not be a soultion. How f'ing hard is it when a god damn issues is reported to update the orginal post?????? I understand these developers are doing this out of the good of their hearts, but anything worth doing is worth doing correctly. If it is to much work to keep an up to date list of ALL known issues, have one of the roms users do so. Not much work for one fan of a rom to keep list of issues if dev cant be bothered.
You help no one when custom roms break things working in the stock version and present it as a working rom. Custom roms used to add fucntion to a device now, it adds somethings and breaks others. Till this trend changes, the best rom is stock rooted + w/e mod a user desires. When a bunch of things dont work label your Rom alpha when most things work call it beta and only when everything works call it stable. This kind of common sense would improve everyone's experience greatly.
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To a degree, I definitely am with you on this. I have been with this forum since the days of my old HTC thunderbolt. There are AT LEAST 5 popular daily drivers that worked worlds better than the stock rom for that phone. My particular phone glitches out on the dialer/phone app for all Original Android ROM's meaning I am automatically limited to a TW rom. I've tried everything to fix this but nothing seems to. However, there is one that works flawlessly, Triforce 5.4. It's perfect, so far as I can tell, but is starting to show its age. It may be the only perfect ROM for our phones but is almost completely without bells and whistles, unlike the Thunderbolt, which you could save multiple working images to SD and restore if you felt like using sense one day, CM the next, and I do recall a few completely custom ones loosely based on CM that worked awesome. Anyway that's my say on it. I am sad NAE firmware capabilities don't have a nice Triforce release to go with it, but the PRL and firmware seem to work great with the ROM, so I guess I'll stick to it, even if it is boring. It definitely does everything I need for it to do. Still, finding the issues with each one and helping the developers is part of the process. It's fun and part of the reason why I do what I do. Take my ASUS Transformer. That thing is old as the hills, but has multi window, android 4.4.3, windowed apps, and all manner of other things and it runs super smooth. timduru is the dang wizard of that device and refuses to let it die peacefully.
arikdahn said:
To a degree, I definitely am with you on this. I have been with this forum since the days of my old HTC thunderbolt. There are AT LEAST 5 popular daily drivers that worked worlds better than the stock rom for that phone. My particular phone glitches out on the dialer/phone app for all Original Android ROM's meaning I am automatically limited to a TW rom. I've tried everything to fix this but nothing seems to. However, there is one that works flawlessly, Triforce 5.4. It's perfect, so far as I can tell, but is starting to show its age. It may be the only perfect ROM for our phones but is almost completely without bells and whistles, unlike the Thunderbolt, which you could save multiple working images to SD and restore if you felt like using sense one day, CM the next, and I do recall a few completely custom ones loosely based on CM that worked awesome. Anyway that's my say on it. I am sad NAE firmware capabilities don't have a nice Triforce release to go with it, but the PRL and firmware seem to work great with the ROM, so I guess I'll stick to it, even if it is boring. It definitely does everything I need for it to do. Still, finding the issues with each one and helping the developers is part of the process. It's fun and part of the reason why I do what I do. Take my ASUS Transformer. That thing is old as the hills, but has multi window, android 4.4.3, windowed apps, and all manner of other things and it runs super smooth. timduru is the dang wizard of that device and refuses to let it die peacefully.
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I just recently got off heavily modded stock and flashed Super S4 and so far it is awesome. Ktoonz's Kernel is baked in and after using recommended recovery to flash I've had no problems. It isn't heavily modded (mostly other mods baked in and some init.d tweaks) but is fast and stable and is one of the very few TW roms I'd recommend.
When I was on HTC Inspire 4G, There were easily 10 Roms (ASOP and Sense) suitable for a daily driver. For the S4 I'd be hard pressed to find 3 stable usable TW roms at a time.
I think android as a platform is changing a lot philosophically, as well. Older custom roms used to be a must have and were the main reason most users wanted root. Now everything is much more framework centric. Now root is used to add functionality through Xposed framework modules,or audio mods like Viper. Previously each and every mod had to be rom specific.