If you haven't heard all ready Verizon is tracking down root users and limiting there data or fully suspending it so watch out. But we have to fight back against them by hiding Verizon from seeing that we are proudly rooted and some people have said the would sue Verizon. Please do whatever you can to fight against this.
Also motorola and htc are going to start doing the same.
Link? Proof that this is happening?
We are allowed to use our devices as mobile hotspots, having root does nothing to circumvent paying for our bandwidth, this make no sense. Proof please...
I thought we could root our xooms and Motorola wouldn't trip....... or was i wrong?
I think it's a Shamockery!
Seriously though, where did you hear this?
http://www.mydroidworld.com/forums/...rooting-manufacturers-carriers.html#post65013
P3droid is a very well known dev. This all over and isn't fake
I don't see the Xoom specifically mentioned in that article at all. That being said, if there really is any truth behind this, I don't really see them going any further then AT&T did with the original iPhone when they found people tethering and then added the appropriate tethering package. It's shady, I agree, but I have a feeling on Android it would just turn into another cat and mouse game of hiding the fact you are rooted against whatever measures are put in place.
Yeah I hope android turns this around. And hides us.
Some dev might just come up with an apply that hides the status of rooted phones. It may sound like an easy idea but its extremely hard, though its not impossible.
Sent from my Nexus One using XDA App
I think they should start working on it now
If I'm understanding this correctly, it's not about rooting the phones but rather about attempts to steal data service (via tethering without paying it). And whether anyone likes it or not, the carriers have a right to determine how their networks are used, including the right to say that tethering isn't allowed unless the required tethering plan is paid for.
I can't imagine the ability to sue Verizon or any other carrier for making it more difficult for users to violate the agreements they sign when they purchase services. Maybe one feels that locking the devices down is too broad a stroke, but then if that's the case come up with a viable alternative. Propose some other control to stop tethering on a rooted device.
Really, I'm amazed that people think the carriers are being "shady" by trying to protect their revenue streams (i.e., to protect their private property from unauthorized use), while users who try to get services without paying for them are, what, the good guys?
----edited----
You forgot the "Root and tether and not give VZW one mother****ing cent" option. Verizon is just plain evil.
I wonder how many attitudes will change when some of these pp are old enough to own their own businesses. I own a small business and if people can get over on you, people will get over on you. I see no problem with Verizon trying to protect their revenue. People need to realize that as a company, Verizon's number 1 loyalty is to it's stock holders not to it's customer. They provide a service and we buy it, or we choose to go elsewhere. I can't imagine VZW and the other providers doing this if they haven't noticed a hit to their bottom line.
Do I root my devices? Yep, both of them. Have I occasionally tethered to my DX? Yes I have, but I understand the risks and accept the responsibility. Once my Xoom gets LTE I'll buy the appropriate data plan for all my tethering needs.......
wynand32 said:
If I'm understanding this correctly, it's not about rooting the phones but rather about attempts to steal data service (via tethering without paying it). And whether anyone likes it or not, the carriers have a right to determine how their networks are used, including the right to say that tethering isn't allowed unless the required tethering plan is paid for.
I can't imagine the ability to sue Verizon or any other carrier for making it more difficult for users to violate the agreements they sign when they purchase services. Maybe one feels that locking the devices down is too broad a stroke, but then if that's the case come up with a viable alternative. Propose some other control to stop tethering on a rooted device.
Really, I'm amazed that people think the carriers are being "shady" by trying to protect their revenue streams (i.e., to protect their private property from unauthorized use), while users who try to get services without paying for them are, what, the good guys?
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Click to collapse
What really bothers me is that there really is no stealing involved. Tethering doesn't magically get you service: you have to pay for the service you're tethering through. What's worse, being an android device, the xoom doesn't really use significantly more data than my phone would anyways. The carriers are just mad because people are preventing them from charging an extra fee, not for more service, but for using a different device. In reality this Is no different than if two people were sharing a parking pass for a private lot. If both cars are never parked at the same time, the service rendered is the same, but the company loses out On the opportunity to get twice the cash. Am i taking advantage? Absolutely. Using a device in a way other than intended, yep. Is that morally wrong? I think of it more as growing pains for new technology. Charging me twice for a single service, that sounds more like stealing to me.
If I can pay a flat rate for an internet connection at home, use a wireless router and connect as many devices as I want, why can't the same pricing principle be applied to mobile data? If your isp tried to charge you by the COMPUTER rather than by the bandwidth, you'd be furious. My phone + data service costs more than my home internet, even though it is slower, and requires no rented equipment or installation, (The cost of towers is theoretically shared by all of the users in the area, and I actually OWN my phone, and buy new ones relatively frequently). I still remember when we paid for the internet by the HOUR.
I understand why the carriers want to crack down; it totally makes sense, but as long as the general public continues to pay what they charge, the prices will continue to be set by the carriers, and not by the actual costs. I would much rather that the pricing structure be reactive to the way these devices are being used, rather than proactively restrictive because they want you on a contract. I think it is a good thing in the long run for both the consumer and the carrier if mobile data sharing continues to be un-resrictable. I believe that if they would just charge for the bandwidth and not worry about how that data is used, they would actually increase the market share for high end mobile devices and speed up the process of tablets bridging the gap with PCs.
Sent from my Xoom using Tapatalk
yeah but a bit is a bit. why should they care(or being charge for)how i'm using my capped bandwidth? tethering isn't a service that they provide. its a feature of the device we are using.
It's like being charged for Water to your house. your paying for the service, and the amount of water you are using. Should you be charged again for each bathtub you have hooked up to your pipes? Or if i decide to use that water to water some flowers?
I don't get it, at least not in the context of the Xoom. Verizon's tablet data plans include tethering, so they are not losing revenue. Tethering is a built-in feature of Honeycomb and one need only go in to settings and turn on the wireless hotspot feature. No root, hacks, or tweaks are required.
Now smartphone data plans are a different story, but they have "unlimited" data.
Neoterra said:
yeah but a bit is a bit. why should they care(or being charge for)how i'm using my capped bandwidth? tethering isn't a service that they provide. its a feature of the device we are using.
It's like being charged for Water to your house. your paying for the service, and the amount of water you are using. Should you be charged again for each bathtub you have hooked up to your pipes? Or if i decide to use that water to water some flowers?
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+1 on this.. Very good point! It's funny how some people looks at us like we're stealing from these provider, and that we're screwing them over. When in reality we the consumers are the one who's getting screwed over time and time and time again by these giant corporations. The only and real reason they don't want us to tether is because they want us to pay a separate data plan for our laptops on the go, which is crazy! It's like getting an internet service at home and getting charged for every single connection through your wifi! Crazy!
Sent from my Xoom using XDA Premium App
First, it's Verizon's service, and thus their right to determine how their services are provided. Nobody has to buy from them. And the bottom line is: people agree to use their services a certain way when they sign their agreements. One may not like their terms, but that's life.
Second, the carriers need to determine how much data is going to be used and provision their services appropriately. Notebooks and tablets tethered to smartphones WILL use more data; that's obvious. Hence, the movement away from unlimited plans and toward metered plans. We're seeing all sorts of responses to the dramatic increases in mobile data use, and this is just one of them.
I think in 10 years things will be very, very different and these things will have shaken themselves out. We're just suffering from the effects of demand for mobile data pushing hard up against supply. In the meantime, nobody should expect the carriers to sit idly by while some people violate their agreements and necessarily cause dislocations in their systems--which inevitably results in poorer service to other users and headaches for the carriers.
Unlimited services are tricky. Drawing accurate pictures of them is even harder in this case because both sides have things leading up to the million dollar question that are either unreasonable, or just stupid. People get caught up on those things when the issue is something plainer.
Unlimited *cellular* data is allowed under a set of circumstances. Those circumstances are supposed to put up "soft" limits (how much the single device can consume) on data consumption. You can only consume so much data through a phone. You and your data plan is not something that entitles you to a data plan aura, in that any device you can link to the plan falls into that plan. Intuitively, everyone knows this is the case.
Maybe it should entitle you to that, especially if you use tethering reasonably. I would like to see a 500 MB--> 1GB allowance for free, especially if your "unlimited" data usage is below average or within a range the carriers set. The carriers have caused a lot of this themselves by biting off more data plans than their networks can chew, and charging ridiculous rates for tethering.
I can understand the frustration from both, but tethering away and being surprised when the carriers try to stop you from doing it is just funny.
theahlenius said:
Unlimited services are tricky. Drawing accurate pictures of them is even harder in this case because both sides have things leading up to the million dollar question that are either unreasonable, or just stupid. People get caught up on those things when the issue is something plainer.
Unlimited *cellular* data is allowed under a set of circumstances. Those circumstances are supposed to put up "soft" limits (how much the single device can consume) on data consumption. You can only consume so much data through a phone. You and your data plan is not something that entitles you to a data plan aura, in that any device you can link to the plan falls into that plan. Intuitively, everyone knows this is the case.
Maybe it should entitle you to that, especially if you use tethering reasonably. I would like to see a 500 MB--> 1GB allowance for free, especially if your "unlimited" data usage is below average or within a range the carriers set. The carriers have caused a lot of this themselves by biting off more data plans than their networks can chew, and charging ridiculous rates for tethering.
I can understand the frustration from both, but tethering away and being surprised when the carriers try to stop you from doing it is just funny.
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Well said. Its why I pay for a small plan and use wireless everywhere I go. no real need to tether anyway.
Related
I know this isnt galaxy related as such but please take a moment to sign the petition:
http://www.petition.co.uk/unlimited-data-fair-use-policy-removal
please please sign this and pass it on to as many people as possible.
This is to petition Ofcom to get communication providers to remove the word unlimited from their product descriptions where a fair use policy exists.
The oxford dictionary describes the word unlimited as:
1 not limited or restricted in terms of number, quantity, or extent:
If you are sold a product as unlimited that is what it should be, companies should no longer be able to use unfair practices enforcing restrictions when their product contains the word unlimited.
I urge everyone in the UK to sign this petition and stop companies falsifying their advertisements to sell their products.
As an example:
BT option 3 broadband unlimited has a fair usage policy of 100GB per month, logic dictates then that option 3 is 100GB and not unlimited.
Let’s stop ISP's from doing this no matter if it's home broadband or a mobile data plan.
Let’s get clarity in what we pay for and not allow companies to get away with it anymore!
Good luck! I want the same thing here in the US, but of course the whole "smaller government" crowd calls this more, bad government regulation--when in fact it is allowing corporations to change the English language ... which too many of us don't properly use anyway.
Way to get active and get involved!
Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using XDA Premium App
Well hopefully this will kick start the whole world stopping this from happening
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA Premium App
A little shunt to make sure everyone gets a chance to sign cone on people make your voice heard
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA Premium App
Well its not exactly black and white when it comes to this issue and you dont seem to understand what they are saying is "unlimited".
For example if they say the "browsing" is unlimited then thats ok as you have unlimited browsing, if you use 100GB a month then you are not simply just browsing you are also downloading data like apps/music etc which is where the fair usage comes into play.
Another scenario is when you have it advertised as "unlimited" data, but after a fair usage your speed gets capped, now you can still download as much as you want but just at a lower speed, so your data is "unlimited" its just your speed isnt.
Now another example is when they say "unlimited" data but after a fair use they cut you off, then that IS wrong and its that, that needs to be chnaged in regards to advertising.
If you are silly enough not to look into things before buying then its as much your fault as its the companies, however advertising laws do need to be looked at as some are quite misleading in the way they are advertised.
Which particular advertisement cheesed you off so much as to make this topic?
To be fair, when it comes to cellular data, it seems that the industry has already stopped this practice to a large degree.
Look at the websites for Vodafone, Orange, T-Mobile and O2, none of them say "unlimited data" any more - I'm sure there are places on the websites where it does say it, but if you look at their monthly plans they all talk about data allowances.
Three was a champion for honesty in their data allowances, but of course since they now offer truly unlimited data, they can honestly say unlimited data!
As far as BT Broadband Option 3 is concerned - well, they are dropping their FUP limits from next month too! (See here).
Seems to me that there is little point now, since the industry is clearly self-regulating wisely here.
Regards,
Dave
I sent an email to Dan Hesse (no im not gullable enough to think he is actually going to read it) asking why they took away the tethering feature with this update. I konw most of you are rooted here and this doesn't affect you but this was a big deal. I bought this phone for this reason and now it is gone, how is that legal? Anyone else want to get a class action lawsuit going?
cardsfan01 said:
I sent an email to Dan Hesse (no im not gullable enough to think he is actually going to read it) asking why they took away the tethering feature with this update. I konw most of you are rooted here and this doesn't affect you but this was a big deal. I bought this phone for this reason and now it is gone, how is that legal? Anyone else want to get a class action lawsuit going?
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Click to collapse
Free tethering wasn't a feature you signed onto when you signed your contract. It was a nice little extra that Android provided which is clearly not what the carriers wanted and for which they now took away.
Did you see that Sprint just had a net loss of almost 850 million dollars... Despite a GAIN of 1 million subscribers. They have to do something lol.
Sent from my Nexus S 4G using Tapatalk
I was pissed about that as well, mostly because when I bought the phone the rep said it was a feature of the phone and since google was in charge of updates that sprint couldn't take it away. However, in another thread someone pointed out to me that tethering is an explicit violation of the terms of service agreement and the phone is subsidized by sprint so they are not really doing anything that you could sue them about. It is disappointing, but at least getting it back is easy through rooting.
Is this thread serious?
Sent from my Nexus S 4G using XDA Premium App
the tethering app itself is there and still works, it does what the app is supposed to do. sprint how ever just disabled the connection on their end to accounts that dont have the add on........which is totally their right to do. while the app comes with the phone is free no one ever said the service was included
ryno502 said:
Did you see that Sprint just had a net loss of almost 850 million dollars... Despite a GAIN of 1 million subscribers. They have to do something lol.
Sent from my Nexus S 4G using Tapatalk
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More than 600,000 of those were in the prepaid sector. They actually had a net loss of more than 100,000 in the post paid sector.
Sent from my SCH-I800 using Tapatalk
With Sprint I sort of understand the legitimacy of wanting to charge extra for tethering, since they have true unlimited data and people who tether regularly can use an assload of bandwidth. But the other carriers all cap their data plans and charge extra for tethering. That is bullcrap.
Just root your phone and install tether and stop complaining... it takes 5 seconds.
i dont use the tether and dont have any plans to, i agree that using the rooted one is all too easy (its what 99% of teh rest of the android population have to do).
BUT
i do believe its rather annoying that the nexus 1 came and went with free tethering, the nexus s is on so many different carriers domestic and international.. yet sprint is the first one to throw up a fit about tethering. not saying that its wrong for them to, just feeling like a red headed stepchild of the nexus s family.
cardsfan01 said:
I sent an email to Dan Hesse (no im not gullable enough to think he is actually going to read it) asking why they took away the tethering feature with this update. I konw most of you are rooted here and this doesn't affect you but this was a big deal. I bought this phone for this reason and now it is gone, how is that legal? Anyone else want to get a class action lawsuit going?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The free tether was not advertised as being free it was never writter or expressed. You just got a free bonus. IMO. Also the free tether was supposed to be remove on the update that occurred right after the phone was launched and it wasn't. I suggest rooting your phone its easy with an untold amount of benefits.
Does the removal of free tethering constitute as change in contract ? I would love to get out of my contract without penalty.
wow I love how people get up on a soapbox and complain without research first.
Free tethering was never offically free from sprint. So you want to cancel your contract/send emails/get red in the face over something that most people already knew.
get over it there are ways around these things which for the most part why we are all here to enhance our phones.
teshxx said:
Does the removal of free tethering constitute as change in contract ? I would love to get out of my contract without penalty.
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Click to collapse
Read your contract and let me know if you see free tethering in there
Sent from my Nexus S 4G using XDA Premium App
hellcatt said:
the tethering app itself is there and still works, it does what the app is supposed to do. sprint how ever just disabled the connection on their end to accounts that dont have the add on........which is totally their right to do. while the app comes with the phone is free no one ever said the service was included
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Click to collapse
I thought the 2.3.5 update is what disable it? If so, that is hardly "on their end." It's on our end, inside our own hardware which we purchased.
Unless I am mistaken and they rolled out a network change at the exact same moment as a software change. But if they were magically blocking tethering from their end... then wouldn't it block our rooted tethering too?
I agree it's not the end of the world and rooted tether is easy. But I think it might be inaccurate to say an update to our phones is happening on their end.
DirtyShroomz said:
Read your contract and let me know if you see free tethering in there
Sent from my Nexus S 4G using XDA Premium App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If the purchase contract to my car said I couldn't drive it while chewing gum, I'd walk out of the dealer. If the purchase contracts for ALL cars said that, I'd buy one of them and then go home and break the terms.
Just because it's in the contract doesn't mean it is right. We pay for a DATA service to a piece of hardware. What we do with data that has been fed into that device is our own decision, morally and logically. Sprint does not govern the airwaves in my own house that originate from a piece of hardware I own.
In reality it's not a big deal, but in principle it is 100% wrong.
The111 said:
If the purchase contract to my car said I couldn't drive it while chewing gum, I'd walk out of the dealer. If the purchase contracts for ALL cars said that, I'd buy one of them and then go home and break the terms.
Just because it's in the contract doesn't mean it is right. We pay for a DATA service to a piece of hardware. What we do with data that has been fed into that device is our own decision, morally and logically. Sprint does not govern the airwaves in my own house that originate from a piece of hardware I own.
In reality it's not a big deal, but in principle it is 100% wrong.
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Click to collapse
The DATA service to use the phone as a wireless hotspot/tether is an extra $29.99, whether we agree with that or not. If you don't think a contract is right then you don't sign it/use the service.
The111 said:
If the purchase contract to my car said I couldn't drive it while chewing gum, I'd walk out of the dealer. If the purchase contracts for ALL cars said that, I'd buy one of them and then go home and break the terms.
Just because it's in the contract doesn't mean it is right. We pay for a DATA service to a piece of hardware. What we do with data that has been fed into that device is our own decision, morally and logically. Sprint does not govern the airwaves in my own house that originate from a piece of hardware I own.
In reality it's not a big deal, but in principle it is 100% wrong.
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Your fight is with congress. Verizon/at&t/comcast/etc they lobbied pretty hard so that net neutrality not be on wireless lines. So the government has allowed from now and out what can be defined as a data over wireless. So what if sprint wants to charge you extra on your contract for a smartphone when you want to use their network for serving up data for laptops/some use for Xbox live and stuff if it is needed so badly on the users end to have mobile data well.
So think about if sprint were to allow free tethering on all phones, well businesses would flock to them for company plans to cut costs, and the flocks of data whores out there that love to rack up data on their phones. Our network would blow, congestion please.
Sprint and wireless telcos don't govern all the airwaves in your own house just the frequencies they use to provide you with a service which at signing is for that piece of hardware you bought from them, then activated that hardware on their network.
This by no means is me getting angry with you but hopefully more people will read this and look this up and let the information flow out. Our government is to blame allowing this to happen. By allowing them to define mobile data is why we have to pay the most expensive data rates for texting and such.
Now imagine this verizon which is new kinda to home tv and high speed fiber to the home. Perhaps they use some of the lte network to start providing tv and home internet. Now they would have complete control over how you watch and your internet. Maybe they have to throttle your HD channels cause you've been watching to much HBO movies. Why not they will all tell you Netflix kills their backend but watching vod has no strain on the network.....I've been ranting for too long sorry
Sent from my A500 using XDA Premium App
BrianDigital said:
So think about if sprint were to allow free tethering on all phones, well businesses would flock to them for company plans to cut costs, and the flocks of data whores out there that love to rack up data on their phones. Our network would blow, congestion please.
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Agreed 100%, but the issue is traffic, not tethering. If they want to limit traffic or introduce a tiered plan, that is fine (it might piss me off, but it is a rational right they have). It is rational to expect to pay per amount of data streamed to my device. But it is not rational to tell me what to do with data received on my end.
Replace DATA with WATER. If I pay the city for x amount of water per month, once it arrives on my doorstep, can they charge me more if I add plumbing in my house that transports it to the backyard, or my basement? Or install an extra faucet in a guest bedroom?
seezar said:
The DATA service to use the phone as a wireless hotspot/tether is an extra $29.99, whether we agree with that or not. If you don't think a contract is right then you don't sign it/use the service.
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Please see my example above about water.
If every single water company in town told you it was $50 per month to get 200 gallons of water piped to your house, but there would be a $30 surcharge (for the same amount) if you had more than 2 faucets in your house, would you:
(a) Tell them about all 4 of your faucets and pay $80
(b) Tell them you have 2 faucets and pay $50
If (a), then I question your thought processes. Common wisdom (in my mind at least) is that it is a citizen's duty to disobey unjust rules. Yes, I am being overdramatic here, and no a contract from Sprint is not a law. But it leans on the law (as the post above mentions), and ALL providers lean on that same unjust law...
A different thread (Here) degraded into an angry, but compelling discussion of tethering ethics.
Since the other thread was so lively, but off of original topic, I figured this would be a better, less phone specific, location.
This guy burned through 105G of data in a billing cycle.
Wow.
Twiddler said:
This guy burned through 105G of data in a billing cycle.
Wow.
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I don't care if people tether provided they keep it at a reasonable rate. I think the T-Mo 5 GB limit is plenty for tethering and I don't care if they throttle past that point. 105GB is completely and utterly retarded and I wouldn't hesitate to say that he was probably downloading illegal files while tethering.
You're using AT&T and you're concerned about ethics LOL. They're screwing you every chance they get. If you get the chance to return the favor, be my guest.
The only crisis of conscience I might have is degrading the user experience of someone else on that same antenna.
The 'I don't give an F' users eventually bring the issue to a head; they push the limits and draw the attention of the carriers.
On the positive end, this (kind of) spurs bandwidth and rollout plans.
On a negative end, this hurries security and monitoring development that closes off these avenues.
There's no reasoning with 'power' users though; they'll take anything that's not nailed down. We all just have to live with it.
Turducken said:
You're using AT&T and you're concerned about ethics LOL. They're screwing you every chance they get. If you get the chance to return the favor, be my guest.
The only crisis of conscience I might have is degrading the user experience of someone else on that same antenna.
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I've never had any issue with AT&T, but I have had issues with T-Mobile. It's funny that a provider can be so cheap (T-Mobile), yet can't seem to get any subscribers... wonder why? :C
Could it be their poor service/coverage? Probably.
I used to tether a while back, but I got a letter from AT&T telling me if I continued I'd lose my unlimited data and be automatically enrolled in their 4GB for $45 tethering plan. I since stopped, and bought myself a 5GB "4G" data connect card @ $50 per month ($10 for every GB over). Seemed like a reasonable deal.
If you're gonna tether, good luck, you will get caught eventually. c:
MikiOCN said:
I've never had any issue with AT&T, but I have had issues with T-Mobile. It's funny that a provider can be so cheap (T-Mobile), yet can't seem to get any subscribers... wonder why? :C
Could it be their poor service/coverage? Probably.
I used to tether a while back, but I got a letter from AT&T telling me if I continued I'd lose my unlimited data and be automatically enrolled in their 4GB for $45 tethering plan. I since stopped, and bought myself a 5GB "4G" data connect card @ $50 per month ($10 for every GB over). Seemed like a reasonable deal.
If you're gonna tether, good luck, you will get caught eventually. c:
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So instead of using something you were already paying for, you now are paying for another monthly charge to continue doing what you were already doing before? Yep, definitely. Sounds like you've never had an issue with AT&T. At least not one that you want to admit.
But in all honesty, it cripples the system when people are overusing. Then again, we should be getting what we pay for. And considering the unreasonable rates carriers provide compared to elsewhere in the world... f*** them.
I honestly don't tether that much these days. I only use it when the internet is down and at best, I use about 200MB worth of data from tethering. Haven't been caught and I am pretty sure T-Mobile doesn't care enough to send me a warning about tethering on a non-tethering contract.
With that being said, I did hit my 5GB limit. Twice. Without the use of tethering. Throttled speed is honestly not that bad, I can still do some stuff.
upichie said:
So instead of using something you were already paying for, you now are paying for another monthly charge to continue doing what you were already doing before? Yep, definitely. Sounds like you've never had an issue with AT&T. At least not one that you want to admit.
But in all honesty, it cripples the system when people are overusing. Then again, we should be getting what we pay for. And considering the unreasonable rates carriers provide compared to elsewhere in the world... f*** them.
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When you say unreasonable rates VZW certainly comes to mind
I don't tether but really don't see the problem with it. As someone else stated when it comes to 'power users' they are out there and we all have to deal with it no matter what the service you use, ie DSL/CABLE/SAT etc.
What about the 'ethics' of locking bootloaders and loading my phone full of bloatware? ROFL...
I don't think its unethical to use your data the way you want to use it. You are paying for the data. I think caps, for the price of unlimited home broadband (and not achieving close to the same speeds as those of home broadband) is unethical.
If my contract says unlimited data, I see nothing unethical about it. It is my data to use when and how I want to. The only thing unethical is the fact that I pay $160 a month for 2 lines.
Whats the difference between using 2GB of data on your phone compared to using 2GB of data when you've got a laptop tethered to it? You should just be able to pay for data and thats that. No paying extra if you want to tether.
It is abusing it if you have unlimited data and rinse it all since it's never really unlimited. Maybe they should say how much data you're ACTUALLY allowed to use.
people should stop using 3G/4G as a replacement for home internet, sigh...
I am about to go a little off topic.
I think it is the fault of the carriers themselves. Earlier it was allowed for me tether as much as I wanted. I had an unlimited data plan (A real one).
Now I am limited to 2 gb (or not yet, only when I renew my contract) This is not caused by power users but because of wrongly anticipated investments. They need to get back their investment of economically aged techniques.
Also I am forced to buy more calling minutes and text when I want more data.
I think, especially compared to earlier, that giving us this little data for a ridiculously high price is unethical. 10 gb should be more fair. I mean they tell us to watch youtube on my phone at home. Why would I do that when I have a laptop or maybe later even a tablet?
Its not really unethical to download 105 gb unless you are downloading illegal stuff and causing others unable to use mobile data.
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Closed
No double threads, instead use the report button so we can act on the original thread
Twiddler said:
A different thread (Here) degraded into an angry, but compelling discussion of tethering ethics.
Since the other thread was so lively, but off of original topic, I figured this would be a better, less phone specific, location.
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Ekamsaral said:
I am about to go a little off topic.
I think it is the fault of the carriers themselves. Earlier it was allowed for me tether as much as I wanted. I had an unlimited data plan (A real one).
Now I am limited to 2 gb (or not yet, only when I renew my contract) This is not caused by power users but because of wrongly anticipated investments. They need to get back their investment of economically aged techniques.
Also I am forced to buy more calling minutes and text when I want more data.
I think, especially compared to earlier, that giving us this little data for a ridiculously high price is unethical. 10 gb should be more fair. I mean they tell us to watch youtube on my phone at home. Why would I do that when I have a laptop or maybe later even a tablet?
Its not really unethical to download 105 gb unless you are downloading illegal stuff and causing others unable to use mobile data.
Sent from my X10i using XDA App
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Well, people would tether because why bother having two Internet es, one at your home and one in your pocket? Sounds easier to have it all on your phone as you can tether to your other devices. Also, some people don't have tablets or aptops, etc. To even use, so they use whatever they can but I mean this is unlikely since they can afford such an Internet service on their device.
Also, it's the isp fault of their network can't support thousands or millions of users using their network, they should get better networks, etc since you're paying for the service. For the ones who download like several gigabytes of stuff, why not? It's the Internet and they paid for it. Watching a million videos, movies, watching live tv, etc. Why don't they leech off starbucks? Because they are paying for an "unlimited" service.
For the throttling, I find it stupid, or good. Stupid because unlimited users shouldn't be doing because they use a lot, it's a service they paid for. Well, how much they throttle anyways? But it's good because at the end of the month, that's when team network is the fastest, if the heavy users get throttled.
Either way, I think throttling is stupid and bad for user who paid for unlimited Internet,.
---------- Post added at 08:57 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:37 PM ----------
AllGamer said:
people should stop using 3G/4G as a replacement for home internet, sigh...
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Why not? Although home Internet is faster, why pay for home when you have unlimited 3g/4g?
Im on sprint, so we have unlimited data in our contracts. I think its my right to use it in any way i like just like i do at home with fios. i can plug in any device i want into my router. I could give my dog her own videophone and verizon wont care. Cell carriers should be the same, they should treat it as a just a connection, thats it. we would all be happier.
I was on AT&T. Got the tethering notice and decided no more with them. I switched to Verizon.
When I tether, I really don't use that much data than I would on my phone. I average around 6.5GB a month on my phone usual data. From there, I would venture to say 2GB of data is tethering and when it's done, it's usually not even their peak network times. I don't think it's unethical because data is data. A byte is a byte whether it originated on the phone or the other device. The company has the capability, they just want more money for it.
Really, it boils down to moderation. If everyone tethered, but did it moderately, we could all enjoy it. But for the 105GB guy, he ruins it for all of us.
xplus93 said:
Im on sprint, so we have unlimited data in our contracts. I think its my right to use it in any way i like just like i do at home with fios. i can plug in any device i want into my router. I could give my dog her own videophone and verizon wont care. Cell carriers should be the same, they should treat it as a just a connection, thats it. we would all be happier.
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I agree.
As our devices become capable of higher volumes of data in a billing period, AT&T markets faster speeds (translation: greater volume in less time), more apps (translation: more downloads, more apps pulling data), we are expected not to use greater volumes of data if we have an unlimited contract.
As for people who say that power users cause network bottlenecks, I would like to see data to prove this allegation. I haven't seen any information to support this allegation. I believe that AT&T's network problems, including cell towers that lose internet, are a much bigger problem.
Power users don't cause the bottleneck. There's so few who actually use over a fairly small amount of data that it's ridiculous for the carriers to say that power users are the cause of network congestion and general slowness, which prompt data caps and other unpleasantness.
The actual issue is similar to Comcast's handling of torrenters. The whole Sandvine debacle wasn't caused because so many people were torrenting that the network couldn't handle it. The cause was simple greed and laziness--the provider sold more bandwidth than they actually possessed. The same is true for the mobile networks, as well. These guys know that "unlimited" is the magic word to sell data plans, but they don't want to spend the money necessary to expand network infrastructure to actually handle unlimited data access from thousands upon thousands of subscribers. So they blame it on the handful of folks who actually make use of the whole unlimited part, and throttle or cap bandwidth.
If they had been honest to begin with, we probably wouldn't be so torqued about it all.
I'm on T-Mobile and I tether fairly often, but not to excess, mostly because I have a 2GB cap and I'm almost always in a place where I can get wifi. The tethering is there for those 1% of times when there's no 802.11 nearby and I need to get my laptop online for whatever reason.
I pay for my bandwidth, I ought to be able to use it however I please. T-Mobile doesn't seem to mind whether my bits are pulled down through my Nexus S or my laptop.
Now if I could only figure out how to stop their proxies from compressing JPEGs...
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http://www.ktla.com/business/sns-rt-us-sprint-4gtre7ao1o9-20111125,0,4531202.story
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Doesnt surprise me. It will come sooner or later, always knew that.
Currently Sprint's 4G is run off a third party network and the same can be said for the majority of the new 4G LTE rolling out. So Sprint's actual network will remain relatively unchanged aside from some faster 3G speeds after the upgrades.
People speculated the iPhone would cripple Sprint's network on data but when the majority of Sprint's iPhones users switched from Android the network usage stayed basically the same. Thats where AT&T screwed and lied to the customers saying the excessive use of the iPhone was the reason for the tiered plans.
Data use is data use regardless of iPhone or Android.
I don't think its gonna happen any time in the next 12 - 18 months, Dan is still putting out new commercials bragging about unlimited, its sprints only real advantage over the competition, and just because some "analyst" who doesn't even work for Sprint thinks its gonna happen doesn't mean spit. Especially using switching to LTE as his justification, they didn't drop it when they added wimax why would the drop it because of LTE? Makes no real sense, if they went tiered they'd be shooting their own foot off, how many people would stay if they lost the only reason most of us are on Sprint? I think the person who wrote that article must be mad he signed with Verizon last year for unlimited data and big red shoved it up his ass this summer *shrugs*
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-EViL-KoNCEPTz- said:
I think the person who wrote that article must be mad he signed with Verizon last year for unlimited data and big red shoved it up his ass this summer *shrugs*
Sent from my -EViLizED-EVO-
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That made my night, i almost spit my drink onto my laptop from laughing.
I fully expect sprint to eventually end unlimited data, hopefully I can get
grandfathered in on a somewhat future-proof phone before that time. If not,
let the chips fall where they may, because we can't control their decisions,
except with our wallets..and large corporations rarely listen to the paying
customer 'till they get desperate. I'm still contemplating switching to a prepay,
if I can find one with a decent phone, or find one that lets me take my existing
devices with me. Besides, killing iDen, and using that spectrum, plus offloading
some of LTE onto Clearwire's bandwidth will help a little. I don't see Clearwire
complaining a whole lot over the deal, since that means Sprint has no choice
but to keep them afloat in a worst case scenario.
TBH big red really effed my mom a few months back, they set her up with a new plan claiming it would reduce her bill buy 75 a month, her bill was about 275 at that time. Since then her bill has been 400 a month every month and they refuse to fix it. They also sold her devices that were incompatible with her plan and refused to allow her to return them. She's actually contemplating suing them for fraudulent sales practices, its been a nightmare and she's been a customer with them since 1995 pretty ridiculous practices to screw the customer if u ask me
Sent from my Classic-EViLizED-ToMAToFiED-EVo4g-
it's all about marketing and money....
let's see what's happened over time.
1. smartphones come out advertising about how you can use your phone to watch videos and all kinds of other data intensive uses.
2. all the carriers offer unlimited data plans because of all these cool things you can do with them.. no one would have bought them in the first place if they knew they would be metered
3. their networks start to suffer from all the subscribers they've successfully marketed to buy these phones that do all this cool stuff
4. after everyone's bought a smartphone, suddenly the carriers drop the unlimited plans and start charging high prices for small amounts of data, but continue to market you watching videos, making video calls and streaming all this crap.
5. sprint comes out with a novel idea, it starts charging $10 extra just to own a smartphone.. it's reasoning... it can be used to watch videos and other things that suck up data. The very things that all the carriers have been advertising on why you should get a smartphone in the first place.
When you look back, it really sucks the big one. They come out with smartphones and tell everyone all the great things it can do, thus getting millions of people to buy a smartphone. Go crazy everyone, after all, the plans are unlimited, see how cool smartphones are?
Once everyone's bought a phone.. NOW it's time to start cutting everything back that they used to get you to buy the phone in the first place.
It just pisses me off. It's the ole bait and switch. Hey everyone.. check out these cool phones! Look at all these things you can do with them. They market the phones encourgaing you to do all the things that suck up lots of data. Now they've sold everyone a phone, now it's the ole... "I'm sorry, all these people are using their phones doing the things we marketed them to for, but because you're using them that way, we just don't have any bandwidth anymore, so we're going to start charging you by the gig now. And Sprint says.. "hey, we're going to charge you a extra $10 buck a month, just because your phone can do all these wonderful things. Which is why you bought it in the first place
Classic
ItsLasher said:
Currently Sprint's 4G is run off a third party network and the same can be said for the majority of the new 4G LTE rolling out. So Sprint's actual network will remain relatively unchanged aside from some faster 3G speeds after the upgrades.
People speculated the iPhone would cripple Sprint's network on data but when the majority of Sprint's iPhones users switched from Android the network usage stayed basically the same. Thats where AT&T screwed and lied to the customers saying the excessive use of the iPhone was the reason for the tiered plans.
Data use is data use regardless of iPhone or Android.
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Agree 100% ItsLasher.. When ATT changed midway through my contract and tried to screw me with their new pricing/tiers I told them they could shove it over principle. Cancelled my landline (home phone) prior to that over high costs and fees for just local service.
Seems like there is always an excuse for higher prices and tiers.. some kind of .. Its for the children will be next excuse.. LOL
It didnt take a rocket scientist to see how badly ATT was getting ready to screw folks so I sold both iphone 3s, paid early termination to ATT and went to Sprint for 2 EVOs. Best move I have made.. knock on wood.
Read Carefully
The article was written from the standpoint of the analyst. The writer gives all the bad and dramatic news first, which is from the opinion of the analyst. Then proceeds to wedge in one or two comments from Sprint. I can't quote statistics, but I will bet their customer base grew each time both Verizon and ATT changed their pricing policies. Being the third largest already, and the only provider left to offer unlimited, Sprint MUST know they can't change that. Their network isn't expansive enough.
Another thought occurred to me. Content providers must take notice of these changes. They should be tracking network traffic to know who is using the most bandwidth. I read that Netflix accounts for over 70% of cell network traffic. Even if the real figure is less, which it probably is, att and Verizon customers are telling their kids to wait until there is a Wi-Fi access point while Sprint kids are cruising with Netflix on every grocery run. I'd be willing to bet donuts to demographics there are more families with kids at Sprint too because of their pricing policy. If they change it the will lose every market advantage they have.
1n1tia|c0nt4ct snap bang pow...watch me now.
interloper said:
Another thought occurred to me. Content providers must take notice of these changes. They should be tracking network traffic to know who is using the most bandwidth. I read that Netflix accounts for over 70% of cell network traffic. Even if the real figure is less, which it probably is, att and Verizon customers are telling their kids to wait until there is a Wi-Fi access point while Sprint kids are cruising with Netflix on every grocery run. I'd be willing to bet donuts to demographics there are more families with kids at Sprint too because of their pricing policy. If they change it the will lose every market advantage they have.
1n1tia|c0nt4ct snap bang pow...watch me now.
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Exactly my point, why would they get rid of their one selling point? It's like having one good hand and one gimped up hand and amputating the good hand thinking its gonna make the gimped one work better. Eliminating unlimited would probably end sprint for.good so many customers would run so far so fast it would more than likely bankrupt them.
Sent from my Classic-EViLizED-ToMAToFiED-EVo4g-
I totally agree, Sprint would severely be crippled if they got rid of the unlimited data plans. I would rather pay an extra 5 or 10 dollars a month but keep my unlimited data then be capped, as for most people they wouldn't want to pay more money, which I can understand as well. It is a double edged sword. Only time will tell, although where I live I don't get 4g service, so honestly I think Sprint should concentrate on getting 4g in more areas as opposed to upgrading to 4gLTE. That would stimulate more customers switching to Sprint. In my area Sprint is the only carrier without 4g service so a lot of my friends and coworkers use the other carriers. Whereas if Sprint had 4g I'm sure most of my friends would switch, because even tho they pay more with ATT, Verizon, and T-Mobile. Sprint doesn't have 4g here so all the phones they want really don't serve much of a purpose to them without 4g. I really don't care about 4g just like the price, plus get I discount thru my employer for Sprint
I have been reading that people are using apps to get around tethering charges.
Just wondering if this is actually illegal?
My missus gets free tethering on her price plan but I have to pay extra, which is frustrating since I hardly use any of the allowance I AM paying for and I can't use it for tethering.
If not illegal (or if I don't mind feeling a bit guilty), what would be the best app to do it?
Also, do providers charge for tethering over Bluetooth? I can't find any mention of Bluetooth tethering on my providers site.
shaneydroid said:
I have been reading that people are using apps to get around tethering charges.
Just wondering if this is actually illegal?
My missus gets free tethering on her price plan but I have to pay extra, which is frustrating since I hardly use any of the allowance I AM paying for and I can't use it for tethering.
If not illegal (or if I don't mind feeling a bit guilty), what would be the best app to do it?
Also, do providers charge for tethering over Bluetooth? I can't find any mention of Bluetooth tethering on my providers site.
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Well it might be outside of your contract but that's a different thing from 'illegal' - in most cases, they will either a) say nothing to you or b) try to sell you an upgrade.
The answer is "kinda". Here's a response I wrote before. Disclaimer: I'm not a lawyer, and this is not legal advice.
thebobp said:
I think this is kind of a naive reading of contract law, so I will explain after all why I don't find it to be (always) legally binding.
Let's say two people sign a contract for a small amount. One of them breaks it. Then it's easily possible that the other person could sue in a court of law and get recompense, but the cost of doing so would far exceed what he would get back. Effectively, the other person has gotten away with it.
In other words, contracts are only as binding as the parties are able and willing to enforce them.
Indeed, this is the essence of civil vs criminal liability. Criminal law is punished "just because" it is so bad. But civil law is punished only when the wronged party has the incentive to punish.
That is, even if tethering is "illegal" on paper (and I use "illegal" at a stretch, because when we say that we usually mean something criminal) does not mean it's "illegal" in practice. A law that is not enforced is effectively legalized. You know there are a bunch of outdated laws in the books, right?
[For that matter, there are more laws in the books than anyone can effectively read in our lifetime. The irony is that the government comes up with tens of thousands of pages of additional TOS every year, that no one can possibly be expected to read, not even you.]
In the case of tethering, the carriers aren't inclined to severe punishment. The worst that usually happens is that you're throttled and moved to a tiered plan. (And, in the past, t-mobile didn't even bother to enforce it.) Case closed.
My point: you can't possibly equate the legality of such a "crime" to, murdering someone, for instance. Some things are "more illegal" than others. Tethering ranks among the "least" illegal things.
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Well I'm going to go ahead and try it, probably with foxfi.
Having scoured my providers site it appears if they discover I'm am tethering, I will simply get a popup warning.
If I continue, the tethered connection will be blocked but not the main connection.
So nothing to lose by trying it.
This is very provider (your cell phone provider) specific. You would most likely get a better idea of what you might run into looking at a thread for your provider rather than for a device which is not a cell phone.