Database Users

"Sprint expects to launch Android 2.2 in the near future" (except Hero and Moment)

"Sprint expects to launch Android 2.2 in the near future" (except Hero and Moment)
A bit misleading... Link goes to Sprint's BAW forum where the excitement quickly turned to anger about Sprint abandoning currently shipping phones and users stuck in contracts. Despite the headline, only the Evo will be getting the 2.2 upgrade from Sprint.
Originally Posted by twitter.com/sprint:
Sprint expects to launch Android 2.2 in the near future - http://bit.ly/d0HRgj
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From Sprint link...
SprintEmployee JGatSprint says:
... 2.2 will not be available for HTC Hero or Samsung Moment
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I thought that when 2.2 was announced at the big Google press event, HTC's CEO was quoted as saying that all currently shipping HTC phones would be getting the upgrade...? I'll see if I can dig up that quote.
Ah, nevermind. I found the quote and it was regarding 2.1.

I just saw the tweet, and I don't think it includes the hero, but I did hear something on that about them getting 2.2..
Sent from my HERO200 using XDA App

cool! good job for sprint!

radxcoresteven said:
I just saw the tweet, and I don't think it includes the hero, but I did hear something on that about them getting 2.2..
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No, you heard that all currently available Android phones would be getting the 2.1 update. That was when all us Hero owners were clamoring for the 2.0 upgrade.

Oh, and the good news is that we don't need HTC or Sprint to do this for us. We're fortunate enough to have a community of developers that are working hard to put out a Froyo update compatible with the Hero. Remember to tip them well, kiddos, because Sprint just left you behind. Oh, and tell your Sprint rep that this is why you rooted your phone.

They're melting down over at the official sprint forums.

gunnyman said:
They're melting down over at the official sprint forums.
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Drop a bomb that size, you better expect nuclear fallout. If darchstar, damageless and TrevE can get Froyo on the Hero, Sprint and HTC could as well. They just want people to keep upgrading. Good business sense; poor customer support.

All you need to do is have enough of publicity about this and they'll have to do something about it.
Imagine top tech headlines;
"Sprint drops support for currently shipping phones... refuses to update firmware", "Would you trust Sprint again...", "Angry Sprint Android owners demand a refund"
...and the last one "Sprint agrees to update older android phones’ software after many complaints from customers"

obsanity said:
All you need to do is have enough of publicity about this and they'll have to do something about it.
Imagine top tech headlines;
"Sprint drops support for currently shipping phones... refuses to update firmware", "Would you trust Sprint again...", "Angry Sprint Android owners demand a refund"
...and the last one "Sprint agrees to update older android phones’ software after many complaints from customers"
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Good luck with that. I'm not sure they care. It's business. Besides, like I said, just tell them these types of decisions are why *ahem* some dude you know *cough* rooted his phone and he knows some guys that are working on putting 2.2 on the Hero right now.

subcypher said:
Oh, and the good news is that we don't need HTC or Sprint to do this for us. We're fortunate enough to have a community of developers that are working hard to put out a Froyo update compatible with the Hero.
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Posts like this are a pet peeve of mine. Not to discredit the great work that the community dev's do, but community generated ROMs that are cobbled together from other devices are NOT the same as vendor-genuine ROMs from HTC/Sprint. While in MANY ways the community ROMs are far superior, they lack the hardware-specific code (kernel drivers, etc...) that only the OEM can provide. Consistently, the most stable and fully-functional community ROMs are those based off of hardware-accurate vendor ROMs (like Fresh, based off of the shipping RUU). The ROMs derived from other devices are far more likely to have caveats such as "fully-functional except for the camera, sensors, martini shaker, ..." (I don't know what part of the term "FULLY-functional" is unclear to some devs).
While it is inevitable that the community devs WILL create a 2.2 ROM, it will not be of the same caliber that would be possible with a genuine vendor ROM to use as a starting point.

i guess you havent run. darchdroid heh
Sent from my HERO200 using the XDA mobile application powered by Tapatalk

cmccracken said:
Posts like this are a pet peeve of mine. Not to discredit the great work that the community dev's do, but community generated ROMs that are cobbled together from other devices are NOT the same as vendor-genuine ROMs from HTC/Sprint. While in MANY ways the community ROMs are far superior, they lack the hardware-specific code (kernel drivers, etc...) that only the OEM can provide. Consistently, the most stable and fully-functional community ROMs are those based off of hardware-accurate vendor ROMs (like Fresh, based off of the shipping RUU). The ROMs derived from other devices are far more likely to have caveats such as "fully-functional except for the camera, sensors, martini shaker, ..." (I don't know what part of the term "FULLY-functional" is unclear to some devs).
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Darch Droid is fully functional now. Took some time to get things figured out but now that he knows how to get it working. It shouldn't be any issue on future releases...once we get kernel code.
Not to mention that, our drivers are there in these roms, just quirky.

cmccracken said:
Posts like this are a pet peeve of mine. Not to discredit the great work that the community dev's do, but community generated ROMs that are cobbled together from other devices are NOT the same as vendor-genuine ROMs from HTC/Sprint. While in MANY ways the community ROMs are far superior, they lack the hardware-specific code (kernel drivers, etc...) that only the OEM can provide. Consistently, the most stable and fully-functional community ROMs are those based off of hardware-accurate vendor ROMs (like Fresh, based off of the shipping RUU). The ROMs derived from other devices are far more likely to have caveats such as "fully-functional except for the camera, sensors, martini shaker, ..." (I don't know what part of the term "FULLY-functional" is unclear to some devs).
While it is inevitable that the community devs WILL create a 2.2 ROM, it will not be of the same caliber that would be possible with a genuine vendor ROM to use as a starting point.
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Doth mine ears deceive me? Are you saying that just because an Android developer works for HTC and Sprint that he's better than the hobbyists that hang out here? I think you missed the whole point of open source.
And, yes, fully-functional may take some time, but it usually happens. Kernel and drivers always come out and are adjusted as needed. As gunnyman said, Darchdroid 2.7 is fully functional. My point is that they're doing what they're doing and doing it well. Sprint/HTC could do it, but they're choosing not to, forcing users to upgrade. Again, one of the benefits of open source.
So, why the pet peeve? I'm just curious. I'm not sure if you're serious or trolling. You're on these forums, so either you're into custom ROMs or you're some kind of troll. If you're into ROMs, why are you bashing devs, because whether you meant to or not, that's what you're doing with this post. You're basically saying, "Cool painting, Picasso, but you'll never be Monet." WTF?

subcypher said:
Good luck with that. I'm not sure they care. It's business. Besides, like I said, just tell them these types of decisions are why *ahem* some dude you know *cough* rooted his phone and he knows some guys that are working on putting 2.2 on the Hero right now.
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I gotta keep this phone until next March so I'm kinda stuck unless I wanna shell out 500 for another phone with this one is 2.5 months old. Well, I don't want to and I can't afford to play this game. So, when we get a 2.2 for the Hero that works like it's supposed to I can hopefully stick with Flipz FreshROM and i'm donating at least 50 to that guy. Between him, Damage and all the other guys with the time and skill to do this they've earned 100x that.

subcypher said:
And, yes, fully-functional may take some time, but it usually happens. Kernel and drivers always come out and are adjusted as needed. As gunnyman said, Darchdroid 2.7 is fully functional. My point is that they're doing what they're doing and doing it well. Sprint/HTC could do it, but they're choosing not to, forcing users to upgrade. Again, one of the benefits of open source.
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cmcraken has a point though, Darchdroid is only fully functional because it is based on the 2.1 RUU made specifically for the hero. Until that RUU hit the streets, every previous 2.1 ROM was handicapped in some form or other. If Sprint/HTC doesn't develop a 2.2 RUU specifically for the Hero, the best the devs will be able to do is get us as close as possible, but never spot on.

subcypher said:
Doth mine ears deceive me? Are you saying that just because an Android developer works for HTC and Sprint that he's better than the hobbyists that hang out here? I think you missed the whole point of open source.
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I'm saying that the community developers will never have access to the resources that the vendor devs do. They will never have access to the low-level engineering data that the vendors keep behind locked doors, nor the source code for things like SenseUI. Reverse engineering can only get you so far.
I understand full well what the point of open-source is. the problem is that these phones as a whole are definitively NOT open-source. Only a small portion of the total package is open-source, and even a major portion of that (the Linux kernel source code) is a colossal PITA to get our hands on. Despite the open-source sales pitch on Android phones, they aren't very open-source in implementation.

cmccracken said:
I'm saying that the community developers will never have access to the resources that the vendor devs do. They will never have access to the low-level engineering data that the vendors keep behind locked doors, nor the source code for things like SenseUI. Reverse engineering can only get you so far.
I understand full well what the point of open-source is. the problem is that these phones as a whole are definitively NOT open-source. Only a small portion of the total package is open-source, and even a major portion of that (the Linux kernel source code) is a colossal PITA to get our hands on. Despite the open-source sales pitch on Android phones, they aren't very open-source in implementation.
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I see your point and concede to you on this. Well played, sir. I think, though, that given the status of what has come before, that we can expect great things from reverse engineering. Hopefully, with the things I've been reading about Google and Android specifically, that things will change with Froyo. I've heard rumblings about making Android one package, the things HTC wants to do another package and the things Sprint wants to do a third package, that way Android updates can continue and the other guys have to keep up if they want us using their stuff.
Longshot? Yes. The way it should be? Yes.

subcypher said:
Longshot? Yes. The way it should be? Yes.
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Ditto. The vendor support (or lack thereof) and OS fragmentation is absolutely killing Android. 1.5 million iPhone 4's sold so far despite it being inferior to the Evo on all fronts. The reason? Apple. They fix bugs for their devices and provide added functionality via regular software updates. iOS 4 is provided as an upgrade to the iPhone 3G, released July 2008. Sprint can't even provide updates for a phone that's less than a year old. These Android vendors have got to get on the same page and start playing by Apple's rules if they want to compete with Apple.

subcypher said:
Drop a bomb that size, you better expect nuclear fallout. If darchstar, damageless and TrevE can get Froyo on the Hero, Sprint and HTC could as well. They just want people to keep upgrading. Good business sense; poor customer support.
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100% agree

Possible reason for the update delays

Dunno if you guys have seen this. I didn't notice because I usually only hang around here but it just got posted to reddit so I saw it.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=913045
If true, it would definitely explain a lot of things. It does make me dislike Samsung, but hopefully the carriers can strong-arm Samsung into doing what everyone else is doing.
Personally, I bought this phone because it was either this or the Droid X, and the difference was that while the DX might have Froyo now, the odds of Motorola putting Gingerbread on it are less than 100%, and the odds of it getting anything after that are even lower, and with the locked bootloader you can't do anything about it. With the Fascinate, at least we can look forward to community built ROMs for some time into the future, definitely past what Samsung is willing to do (I figure they're never going to even consider putting Gingerbread on the Fascinate what with the LTE phones coming out soon, and SAMOLED+ and all that). People should probably avoid Samsung unless they specifically want the nice hardware and easy hacking, in which case it seems like Samsung is the most lax with security so they're the best choice for hacking.

Hmm, very enlightening, of it's true of course. Sounds entirely plausible though. Oh well, I really don't care anymore, not with kaos and friends on the job.
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA App

This is what we all expected.
But the question is... Why was it released with Eclair when Froyo was released before this phone was released.

wasn't the reason it was released with eclair because of the 1.6 ril or whatever? from what i read, the ril would barely work with eclair and no way for it to work with froyo.
my understanding is that a large part of the magic that kaos is doing was to build a functional ril.

They arent building a new ril. They are hacking android around the current crap ril Samsung gave us.

Don't buy it.
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA App

upsidedownaaron said:
wasn't the reason it was released with eclair because of the 1.6 ril or whatever? from what i read, the ril would barely work with eclair and no way for it to work with froyo.
my understanding is that a large part of the magic that kaos is doing was to build a functional ril.
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That's what jt's been doing, and he ended up just hacking the current Samsung RIL to work. And if you follow his twitter, he said that the RIL from Eclair, Froyo, and Gingerbread on the Android side didn't change much which is why they're jumping straight to Gingerbread instead of wasting time with Eclair.

upsidedownaaron said:
wasn't the reason it was released with eclair because of the 1.6 ril or whatever? from what i read, the ril would barely work with eclair and no way for it to work with froyo.
my understanding is that a large part of the magic that kaos is doing was to build a functional ril.
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Um, wow, what have you been reading? First off, our phone came with 2.1, not 1.6, so I'm not sure where you got that number from.
Secondly, the reason that we (not Samsung) could not build a ROM not based on the stock OEM ROM was because the source code for the RIL that Samsung provided for the Fascinate was bad code, which made it extremely difficult to create a working RIL what will work with a custom OS. However, jt1134 and punk.kaos were able to reverse engineer the bad code into working code, in order to proceed with ROM building.
This has nothing to do with Samsung themselves though. Samsung built the RIL to begin with, so they most certainly can (and have) created RIL code that works with Froyo, quite a long time ago in fact. They released the Galaxy S line with Eclair because that was likely the newest version available when they began developing the OS for those phones. In order to convert the OS to Froyo to launch it on the phone, they would have had to significantly delay the launch, which was not an option. This is likely why so many phones are released with outdated versions of Android. And I would like to point out that if they just put Google's code on there and didn't insist in polluting it with their own proprietary junk, it wouldn't take so long to release in the first place, and wouldn't be so difficult to upgrade later.
Getting back on topic, I figured that the problem with getting these updates really all comes down to money. People have always had to pay for OS upgrades for PCs, but due to Android and iOS, have now come to expect to receive these updates for free. The problem is, somebody has to develop an upgrade process, and test the heck out of it, and those developers have to get paid. So the OEM pays them, and then naturally tries to pass the cost along to the carrier, because they don't want to work for free. The carrier also doesn't want to pay for the upgrade, but also knows they can't get away with charging their customers for it without significant backlash, so they basically just sit there and hope the problem eventually goes away, or that the OEM will finally back down and release the update for free, which is what's been described as our current situation.
If this is really such a big problem, they could be taking steps to not end up in this situation, such as figuring the cost of these upgrades into the price of the phones and/or rate plans. However, the carriers also have added incentive to not push for the upgrades, because that effectively extends the life of the handset, and they want you to keep buying new hardware all the time, since they make money from selling hardware, and lose money on the free upgrades.
In the end, it's all about money. Thankfully we have such a great community of developers here on XDA that are willing to go the extra mile to not only get us our upgrades, but also add cool features and boost the performance way beyond what the manufacturer gave us. Thanks to that, our hardware's lifetime is determined not by when a carrier or OEM pulls support, but rather by when the devices physically die or break, or the hardware becomes too outdated for the tasks we wish to perform. And this way, through donations, we can pay our developers for good upgrades, not our carrier for crappy, bloated ones.

Im not saying its true but the most legitimate explanation for all this bull**** I have actually heard in a while. So for what its worth Im not going to shoot that down. Possibly true at this point.
Sent from my fascination station using XDA App

ivorycruncher said:
Um, wow, what have you been reading? First off, our phone came with 2.1, not 1.6, so I'm not sure where you got that number from.
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Mrbirdman said it himself, actually. (1.5, but close enough).
http://twitter.com/#!/_mrbirdman_/status/3002051533479936
Anyway, I don't know whether to believe this but it explains why no US carriers have Froyo yet. It's kind of frustrating that Verizon is the only carrier that hasn't even had a leaked Froyo build it seems. Damn ingrates spoiling leaks for the rest of us.

Ah, I see. Thanks for the link. I admit that tweet came before I followed him on twitter, so I hadn't seen that. I can see how that would complicate matters though.

This is the last farkin' time I ever buy a Samsung phone. Shame on me for believing their lies when they said they'd support it.

If that user is really violating an NDA, he's already fired, and the XDA admins would be hearing from lawyers demanding they remove the thread.
Sounds like it's just more trumped up bull**** designed to stir up the masses. Who knows really, but all I know is I wasn't stupid enough to purchase a phone based on future "promises."

Jake_Mongoose said:
This is the last farkin' time I ever buy a Samsung phone. Shame on me for believing their lies when they said they'd support it.
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You might wanna rethink that. Why, you ask? Because Samsung puts out some of the best hardware available, especially the screens, and we always have devs that can hack up the code to make it better than it ever would have been with a stock ROM. HTC isn't too bad, though the issue with rooting the G2 is certainly raising some eyebrows, but if you were thinking about Motorola, have fun with your locked bootloader and other fun tricks that attempt to squash community development. Aside from lousy source code, Samsung phones are the easiest to root and customize due to the unlocked bootloader. You can basically just flash anything you want with ODIN, no problem.

It is not necessarily the case in the future because Tab reportedly has locked boot loader. This said people already found workaround, but who knows?..

That is true. Nobody knows what the future holds. In any case, if you have no problem loading custom software from XDA devs on your phone, then OEM software support should not even be on the list of requirements when buying a phone. I now make my phone purchasing decisions purely based on hardware specs and quality. If it's a quality piece of hardware with the features I want, on my carrier of choice (Verizon), I will buy it, regardless of manufacturer or UI. Warranties and insurance work the same no matter who makes it, and software updates come from XDA, so nothing else really matters. But then again, that's just my opinion.

ivorycruncher said:
That is true. Nobody knows what the future holds. In any case, if you have no problem loading custom software from XDA devs on your phone, then OEM software support should not even be on the list of requirements when buying a phone. I now make my phone purchasing decisions purely based on hardware specs and quality. If it's a quality piece of hardware with the features I want, on my carrier of choice (Verizon), I will buy it, regardless of manufacturer or UI. Warranties and insurance work the same no matter who makes it, and software updates come from XDA, so nothing else really matters. But then again, that's just my opinion.
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Yup, this is how I've decided to make phone decisions from now on as well. As long as the phone's software can be replaced by XDA, I don't care too much about the manufacturer's updates.

J Shed said:
If that user is really violating an NDA, he's already fired, and the XDA admins would be hearing from lawyers demanding they remove the thread.
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It is easier to hide posting on a forum than it is sending a tip into an online news outlet, at least in general. Also, by posting it in a forum, it is entirely likely that it will be up for longer than it would be if posted at say, Engadget, because it takes longer for news to show up in major outlets if posted in a forum first as opposed to a news site. If it were posted at Engadget or another tech blog, they are likely watched over very closely for potential NDA breaches, etc. I doubt Samsung looks are random forums/subforums/threads nearly as close.

IF it were $$ couldn't we as users pay like $20 for Froyo...
x 3 million phones = more than enough to pay for DEV

I don't buy it.
Why?
Because these companies work off of contracts. Verizon would know exactly what they were getting into before signing. If Samsung decides to breach said contract, fine, let Verizon sue the hell out of them. Lastly, Verizon would not have sold or marketed docks that rely on 2.2, if they had no intention of releasing it.
Actually one more thing. If US Carriers were refusing, Samsung would halt development. We are seeing new leaks for the other US models all the time, and Verizon is still being worked on (but not leaked).
This is a case of where 2+2=5=false.

Google - No Honeycomb AOSP for you!

http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/mar2011/tc20110324_269784.htm
Google says it will delay the distribution of its newest Android source code, dubbed Honeycomb, at least for the foreseeable future. The search giant says the software, which is tailored specifically for tablet computers that compete against Apple's iPad, is not yet ready to be altered by outside programmers and customized for other devices, such as phones.

almostinsane said:
http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/mar2011/tc20110324_269784.htm
Google says it will delay the distribution of its newest Android source code, dubbed Honeycomb, at least for the foreseeable future. The search giant says the software, which is tailored specifically for tablet computers that compete against Apple's iPad, is not yet ready to be altered by outside programmers and customized for other devices, such as phones.
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More beta BS. I'll sell you a car but we only completed the frame.

Yup - Its why I just sent my Xoom back to Moto.

Perhaps it's time to change your ID to "completelyInsane".
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA App

_RTFM_ said:
Perhaps it's time to change your ID to "completelyInsane".
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA App
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LMAO!
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA Premium App

i dont understand what will make it "ready" if they are planning on eventually releasing it what will keep it from being ported to phones then. If its a matter of incompleteness then what's changed since Cupcake which everyone agrees was more .8 than 1.0. Releasing it to dev's will allow for bugfixes and tweaks to get merged upstream.

It will leak eventually. It always does...
Sent from my Xoom using XDA App

Yea I dont understand google some times. I understand the the OS isnt ready, but if it really is that bad and that unstable then why even put it on a tablet. And really what harm does it do the put out the code, so people will port it to other devices, you can keep doing what you will but make lots of devs happy.

They say they're worried about a poor user experience. Who do they think these users are? "I he4rd on the int3webz I can haz h0neycombz on my G1?" I mean we already know that the percentage of people running custom Roms, while large for what it is, is not the bulk of people using Android. And we know that what we're doing may not be the smoothest experience. The SDK has already been ported to pretty much everything, and they're worried about the actual 3.0 being a poor experience? Come on Google, what's this really about?

This wasn't the best source to quote from. Google said they don't want developers trying to port it to phones yet since they can't guarantee a good user experience on phones. They're afraid XDA is going to port it, people try to run it on their phones and then say how crappy it runs on a phone even though that's not what it was designed for. You know it would happen, and word would spread that it sucks on phones and yada yada it doesn't get a fair chance.
Sent via EVO

As much of a ROM guy as I am, I admit this makes sense from a business stand point. Google makes $ from licensing and distribution (with regards to Android). The hacker communities do not make up said market for the most part.
The worst thing companies combat these days is negative publicity.
I owned an iPhone, two iterations, the 3G and the original. Why did my mother never purchase one, nor my sister? Simply because of how locked down they are due to MY advice. Were they ever going to buy said device due to their hackability? Hell no. But because I said it was sh**** that Apple locks their stuff down so much, they declined to buy said hardware.
Releasing the software for Google could have a lot of negative effects on a BRAND NEW operating system for a BRAND NEW market for Google. If people are throwing this on phones, you search it out on the internet, and everything is Honeycomb this sucks, and honeycomb that sucks, due to people using it on phones, most people who try to do basic research, like my mother, or sister,
will only see "THIS SUCKS".
Just my 2c, but I can see their stand point. Until they can find a way to keep it off the phones, I see this as an issue for google.
~m

familiarstranger said:
They say they're worried about a poor user experience. Who do they think these users are? "I he4rd on the int3webz I can haz h0neycombz on my G1?" I mean we already know that the percentage of people running custom Roms, while large for what it is, is not the bulk of people using Android. And we know that what we're doing may not be the smoothest experience. The SDK has already been ported to pretty much everything, and they're worried about the actual 3.0 being a poor experience? Come on Google, what's this really about?
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Uhmm, are we reading the same forum? Where people knowingly purchased a device that didn't have flash or lte or an ad card working at launch but are still *****ing and whining and returning their xoom regardless? What I mean is, those same people will install Honeycomb and complain that google released a lousy product.
Sent via EVO

thegeektern said:
I understand the the OS isnt ready, but if it really is that bad and that unstable then why even put it on a tablet. And really what harm does it do the put out the code, so people will port it to other devices, you can keep doing what you will but make lots of devs happy.
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My understanding of that article is that Google doesn't feel its ready for phones. It's not that its not ready for tablets. They understand that they won't be able to stop people from using HC on phones, but trying to stave off the inevitable...
this HC thing looks like crap.... oh.. on my phone. In the end.. we are talking about a company here.. a company that needs to keep it's image.. and products.. (or software as you may call it).. as good as possible.
I don't think it's the best move Google could have made, but I think Google should do things in it's best interest to keep itself as a company in good standing. Long and short of it.. if things go south for google.. we'll all be unhappy. Just getting things out for the sake of allowing devs to play doesn't mean its the most sound decision for the company making it.
Yes, I know.. it's 'open source', but it is still a work-product. I think it's also entirely likely this is just a marketing ploy to say 'we told you so'.. and then it will get leaked and everything will go back to normal. But I still think people often forget that this is still a company that has to keep itself together to survive.
EDIT: So many things get written in the same time when you respond to a post! It seems as though I am joining the choir of.. this isn't so bad.

Sirchuk said:
This wasn't the best source to quote from. Google said they don't want developers trying to port it to phones yet since they can't guarantee a good user experience on phones. They're afraid XDA is going to port it, people try to run it on their phones and then say how crappy it runs on a phone even though that's not what it was designed for. You know it would happen, and word would spread that it sucks on phones and yada yada it doesn't get a fair chance.
Sent via EVO
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Well that hasn't stopped devs on xda porting it already - http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=978939

Darn you almostinsane, I was just about to post this but you beat me to it!
Its really unfortunate that Google is doing this, whatever happened to a completely open source OS? In my honest opinion I think they should release it to the public and let the various devs have at it and see what can be improved and take those improvements into consideration for the next release of Android. If the OS was only meant for tablets who is to say that x developer can port it to a handheld flawlessly? It would be a HUGE leap ahead for us and for big ol' G.
Either way, it'll happen with or without Google releasing the source as our one dev spacemoose1 has shown us with making a near perfect port to the Samsung tab of honeycomb.
Stinks money is such an issue, Google doesn't really need anymore haha.
Done with my rant now
Sent from my ADR6300 using XDA App

Another business reason for this decision: Google may not have programmed Honeycomb well.
An obvious(?) repercussion for grimy source code going public is more bashing of Honeycomb's alleged "beta-ness". The more app developers that use the ...poisonous open-source code, the more ...poisoned apps there will be.
Or, they want to curb full-blown Honeycomb from appearing on devices other than the Xoom for just a little longer.

you're right. I just hate that its true. Your sig shows you remember the G1 days when we were all just so happy about what our phone COULD do. It's gotten a lot whinnier around here since then.
Sirchuk said:
Uhmm, are we reading the same forum? Where people knowingly purchased a device that didn't have flash or lte or an ad card working at launch but are still *****ing and whining and returning their xoom regardless? What I mean is, those same people will install Honeycomb and complain that google released a lousy product.
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As a ROM enthusiast; yea this sucks. Business it's understandable; but as the former it doesn't make me happy.
My NC sorely needs a aosp honeycomb, HC's tablet interface is superior to even CM7 on it.
Honestly though it's a lot of speculation here on why, but it really just sounds like an excuse (Bad one) to quiet the devs while really being a straight business decision.

How is not releasing honeycomb aosp right away not being open? Would you like all your roms without SD card support right now? Honeycomb is most likely stable enough for normal use for the average consumer and Google had to make footprint in the tablet industry before ipad2 was announced. Things were obviously rushed so i rather wait for them get everything situated. I think this unfortunate news but I'm not gonna cry foul when its something that's probably for the better. Google has proven with each iteration of android they have released source so just be patient
Sent from my Xoom using Tapatalk

almostinsane said:
Yup - Its why I just sent my Xoom back to Moto.
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I don't understand the logic here. What alternative are you seeking? Take it back for the Galaxy 10.1? It runs the same OS. Take it back for an iPad? It runs a closed OS.
The AOSP release is delayed ... maybe. Why would you return your Xoom because of this?
Sent from my Nexus One using XDA Premium App

Release Honeycomb Petition!

hey all, i found this little guy floating around cyberspace and though maybe we should sign, who knows we can try right?
http://www.petitiononline.com/honey30/

Why? It will be released when it's ready.

This is dumb. Why would they release it before its done?
People are angry because the xoom has honeycomb, and honeycomb hasnt been released.
The xoom has an unfinished build of honeycomb. The SD card slot doesn't even work yet.
Also, when you say things like "found this floating around", when in reality you actually created it yourself... That doesn't help you gain any support.

Yea because google is somehow required to release honeycomb to the public, grow up

Okay, I know that everyone is infuriated by this petition. But there are still many devs that would enjoy making the source better by working on it now. Not to mention larger companies would like to have the source like barnes and noble and notion ink. It would just be nice if google posted the source with a disclaimker kf its problems
Sent from my PG06100 using XDA App

Lakers16 said:
This is dumb. Why would they release it before its done?
People are angry because the xoom has honeycomb, and honeycomb hasnt been released.
The xoom has an unfinished build of honeycomb. The SD card slot doesn't even work yet.
Also, when you say things like "found this floating around", when in reality you actually created it yourself... That doesn't help you gain any support.
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Totally agree with you...

Google have some very good reasons for not releasing the source code. Mainly it's because of a key change in their strategy AGAINST the open source nature you love.
They are worried about issues like fragmentation and want to ensure anyone picking up an android device will feel its a 'high quality' device. By releasing the source code anyone can do what they like with it and some devices will fail badly. This makes android look bad. By keeping the source code in house Google can control who develops it and who can use it in their devices. This is all an attempt to maintain a 'high quality' feel to devices running android.
I know this goes against the open source nature everyone says Google has but at the end of the day they REALLY want to dominate the mobile OS war. I dont think a little online petition will send them running to think about their actions and then return to hand over the source code.

Agreed its unfinished. Why would you release code on an unfinished product? This is not about open source or fragmentation, blah blah blah. Its the fact they shoehorned Android on a tablet to compete with the iPad. When the code is finished they'll release it. For now we have gingerbread
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edcoppen said:
Google have some very good reasons for not releasing the source code. Mainly it's because of a key change in their strategy AGAINST the open source nature you love.
They are worried about issues like fragmentation and want to ensure anyone picking up an android device will feel its a 'high quality' device. By releasing the source code anyone can do what they like with it and some devices will fail badly. This makes android look bad. By keeping the source code in house Google can control who develops it and who can use it in their devices. This is all an attempt to maintain a 'high quality' feel to devices running android.
I know this goes against the open source nature everyone says Google has but at the end of the day they REALLY want to dominate the mobile OS war. I dont think a little online petition will send them running to think about their actions and then return to hand over the source code.
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What? You are completely wrong.
Honeycomb ISNT FINISHED. It has nothing to do with fragmentation. Google's new stance wont even effect the end user or even rom devs much, its simply to stop big companies from slapping their own terrible UI over the top.
The honeycomb source will be released when its good and ready. I'm pretty sure Google are required by law to release it anywany so just be patient.
Sent from my Nexus One using XDA Premium App

Meltus said:
its simply to stop big companies from slapping their own terrible UI over the top.
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Galaxy Tab 8.9 and the new 10.1 have TouchJizz 4.0 all over them.

Meltus said:
its simply to stop big companies from slapping their own terrible UI over the top.
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Its actually to discourage them from doing it.

Meltus said:
What? You are completely wrong.
Honeycomb ISNT FINISHED. It has nothing to do with fragmentation. Google's new stance wont even effect the end user or even rom devs much, its simply to stop big companies from slapping their own terrible UI over the top.
The honeycomb source will be released when its good and ready. I'm pretty sure Google are required by law to release it anywany so just be patient.
Sent from my Nexus One using XDA Premium App
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Completely wrong! The chief editor of engadget agrees that there is huge pressure for Google to change their strategy. Have a look at this article he wrote...
http://www.engadget.com/2011/04/09/editorial-androids-problem-isnt-fragmentation-its-contamina/
He says exactly the same as me, except I took it one step further by suggesting this is the reason Honeycomb hasn't been released yet. I agree with you that honeycomb still has improvements to be made before its source is released. I just don't believe that's all there is to it. There are other considerations too!
Also note this was released today, after my my comment was made

DanWilson said:
Galaxy Tab 8.9 and the new 10.1 have TouchJizz 4.0 all over them.
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The touchwiz ux on the tabs looks real nice. Much easier to tell what some things do. Just my opinion.
Sent from my always stock, EC05 Epic 4G

Cyanogen himself said Honeycomb was probably a pile of hacks. Google needs to clean it up a little before we get a bunch of half assed horrible android tablets. I just wish they would put a hardware requirement and requires companies to update their devices at least once (like 2.2 -> 2.3) in a timely manner (like 2-3 months after the code is pushed to AOSP)

Why do you think there's going to be any "dev" action on the A500?

First off, keep in mind I'm not trying to start a fight. I really don't know the answers.
Given that Honeycomb is never going to be open source, to me that means ROM changes by the dev community are impossible. Only Acer can make and push out those changes.
I don't consider changing an app out to be "development". To me, that's theming. While that's a fine thing, what I really want are changes to the core code to fix basic problems with the OS we've been given.
At some point in the near future I'd like to participate in making those changes.
Since HC source is never going to be available to me, that tells me that I'm going to be limited to theming the OS I've already got.
What do you know that I don't which leads you to think the dev community will be able to make substantial changes to our tablets?

Ice Cream is rumored to be scheduled for Q4 and Google has stated it will be the next open-sourced version.
Honeycomb was effectively a rush-to-market to try to allow companies like Motorola and Acer to compete with the iPad before it came too late, and is an incredible hack job.
I'm okay with that. Once someone breaks the boot-loader on the Acer some enterprising dev will get Ice Cream on it, even if Honeycomb is never released as source.
News sources: http://phandroid.com/2011/05/10/goo...mb-because-they-wanted-to-wait-for-ice-cream/
http://www.engadget.com/2011/05/10/google-announces-ice-cream-sadwich-for-q4-2011-for-smartphones/

It's funny that Google is so embarassed of how bad they had to code Honeycomb to get it out that they won't let the public see it. It's got to be really stinky, and it explains the problems we have. I'd rather this than Apple winning the war though.
That being said, I don't want Apple out of the game either. I want it split 50/50 or so. Encourage price and development pressure on the corporations.

muqali said:
It's funny that Google is so embarassed of how bad they had to code Honeycomb to get it out that they won't let the public see it. It's got to be really stinky, and it explains the problems we have. I'd rather this than Apple winning the war though.
That being said, I don't want Apple out of the game either. I want it split 50/50 or so. Encourage price and development pressure on the corporations.
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Yup. I completely agree. The competition keeps them on their toes.
Sent from Desire HD or Inspire 4G or whatever this thing is called via premium XDA app.

agreed , I dont think anyone wants Apple out of the game , just as kicking Microsoft to the curb is unwise! Competition makes prices go down and technology better!

I think the comparison to apple products is not really justified. These tablets are not glorified ipods (and I mean this in a good way), but they are actual intermediates from phone to laptops. I have a more efficient way of browsing, e-mail, reading, playing movies, etc that happens to have games.
I am impressed that Apple introduces well packaged and polished products to consumers, and for most consumers, these products will work well for their "needs." I agree with what another member said recently, just using the product is only half the fun. I think the reason we are on these forums and buy these products is that we enjoy the challenge that Android devices hold. They are basically the most raw form of the new tablet PC market, akin to the old IBMs and such that most of us remember using when we were younger. You know, the ones we used to open up and explore, disassemble and reassemble.
I love what the android tablet market offers: a collection of powerful hardware and the collective creativity of everyone in this dev community. I am looking forward to what kind of crazy things this community comes up with.