New codecs for Android soon - what about Xoom? - Xoom General

Hi,
probably most of you know a long discussion in many threads about issues with video playback that Xoom/Honeycomb/Tegra 2 has.
Some of you say it is in the hardware some of you say it is just a software... so far none of the comapnies involved had confirmed anything either way.
But... I found this news.... what do you think?
http://androidcommunity.com/ainol-h...ps-display-huge-1080p-codec-support-20110321/
Ainol may be better known for their Full HD capable PMPs, but the company is turning to Android 3.0 Honeycomb and a proper tablet. According to some teaser spec pages, the so-far unnamed slate will have a 1280 x 800 IPS capacitive touchscreen display and run a SoChip Cortex-A9 processor.
They’re impressive specs, given tablets with IPS displays – such as the iPad 2 – are in relatively short supply. 1080p HD support is promised, with a fair amount of codec compatibility as well: MKV, AVI, WMV, H.264, XviD and MPEG.
Considering one the continued shortcomings of Android is its patchy media support out of the box, that could be enough to earn the Ainol slate a niche of its own. Pricing, screen size, release dates and other specs are still unknown at this stage.

They can say whatever, but bring it on

Really?
You mean OLD codecs/containers?
AVI now is typical just DivX which is really just another H.264 (which is already supported) As DivX runs nativity on my Droid X so I am sure it is a licensing issue on the Xoom.
Xvid, is just another DivX without the licensing issues
MPEG 1 and 2 Seriously you are excited about that?
WMV another old container we really should be moving away from as it is the MS version of MPEG-4 part 2. Now if the devices supported VC-1 MS containers that would be a bit exciting.
Now granted not having to convert everything would be nice but if people would just rip H.264/AVC in the first place life would just be easier IMO. I would be more exited about seeing more/better WebM encoders out there (which your Xoom also supports nativity)

Why won't any other company use IPS displays. If some company that I've never heard of (that I'm assuming just isn't popular here) can, then why cant Samsung or Motorola?

Eclair~ said:
Why won't any other company use IPS displays. If some company that I've never heard of (that I'm assuming just isn't popular here) can, then why cant Samsung or Motorola?
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Here is a well known maker coming out with an IPS display and more:
http://tablets-planet.com/2011/03/2...er-android-3-0-tablet-first-launch-in-3-days/

the issue with the tegra 2 as i know it is with playing high profile H.264, ive confirmed this with the notion ink Adam (i had for about a week)
i preordered the xoom and ill test when i get it but from what ive read its the same issue.

Eclair~ said:
Why won't any other company use IPS displays. If some company that I've never heard of (that I'm assuming just isn't popular here) can, then why cant Samsung or Motorola?
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Even worse, you have "cheap" tablets like the Nook Color rolling out with IPS goodness. With devices like these, where there isn't one normal way to view the screen, high quality panels like IPS should be the norm. It really is crappy that companies are still cheaping out on some of the most important parts (viewsonic G-Tab, and Archos....)

Related

Ipad 2 officially spec'd XOOM WINS

i will make this brief
weaker front camera (ipads VGA)
512 ram (Xoom is 1gb)
wifi only for facetime (xoom laughs at this)
prices(ipad wins on account of types to choose from but based on 32gb model, the $70+ for xoom? WORTH IT)
No MicroSD Slot (Xoom got that..well eventually..haha PATIENCE)
display resolution? (Xoom kills it)
connectivity (xoom will have 4g...BANG MY MOM)
well guys...apple just made fun of all tablet makers..including google honeycomb..watched it live...so get ready for some ANDROID WRATH.
its good to do your homework. WOOO
Xoom wins specwise, iPad wins revenue wise.
Haha yep. And ios is still garbage. Honeycomb makes the xoom. I wouldn't have bought a tablet if it had the same is as my phone does. Its a diffident device, so it should have a different user experiance. Tablets shouldn't just be our phones with bigger screens.
exactly. but damn does it feel good to be part of a OS platform such as googles. apples marketing is genius, the fans are so loyal and brainwashed its just a spectacle.
my office is eating it up (work on wallstreet) people laughed at my xoom on my desk, but im so content.
dudeimgeorge said:
MicroSD Slot (Xoom got that)
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Watched that too but with a few minutes of break. Didn't see that the iPad has a µSD slot... Are you sure?
sorry, editted it.. ipad2 does NOT have it.
typical proprietary appleness.
I still wish that developers would come up with snappy apps like the ones that Apple offers. I mean, all that screen real estate, the processor, the memory and removable storage - for what? *sigh* I would like to use my table for more than just hacking and being geeky and nerdy
Just wanted to point out
IPAD 2 video capabilities are lower than XOOM
Video formats supported: H.264 video up to 720p, 30 frames per second, Main Profile level 3.1 with AAC-LC audio up to 160 Kbps, 48kHz, stereo audio in .m4v, .mp4, and .mov file formats; MPEG-4 video, up to 2.5 Mbps, 640 by 480 pixels, 30 frames per second, Simple Profile with AAC-LC audio up to 160 Kbps per channel, 48kHz, stereo audio in .m4v, .mp4, and .mov file formats; Motion JPEG (M-JPEG) up to 35 Mbps, 1280 by 720 pixels, 30 frames per second, audio in ulaw, PCM stereo audio in .avi file format
That's the only thing that I dont like about apples sheep. Is that they are so closed minded. I prefer android over anything else, but if something else comes out that is better I wouldn't hesitate to switch. All the sheep are doing is limiting themselves to a whole lot more.
The Xoom may beat the iPad 2 in specs....but I view the iPad and Android tablets as two different beasts. iPads are multimedia devices....you can watch Netflix, Hulu, ABC, etc. etc. and easily rent and buy movies and tv shows from iTunes. You can also be productive on it (I can't, but I'm sure other people can). So if people can do all those things plus have instant access to thousands upon thousands of iPAD apps (not phone apps), what do specs matter? If the device does what you want, who cares about 4g or a microsd?
I really wish the developers would hurry up with Android.
Akulamenuri said:
Xoom wins specwise, iPad wins revenue wise.
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lol,very true,their{Apple} Marketing is always top notch,i mean wifi model ready as soon as March 11,this is really great
clandest said:
That's the only thing that I dont like about apples sheep. Is that they are so closed minded. I prefer android over anything else, but if something else comes out that is better I wouldn't hesitate to switch. All the sheep are doing is limiting themselves to a whole lot more.
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After all the stuff I read on these boards in the past couple of days, Android sheep are no different than Apple sheep. They are just as close-minded.
Sheep are sheep...lol
funnycreature said:
I still wish that developers would come up with snappy apps like the ones that Apple offers. I mean, all that screen real estate, the processor, the memory and removable storage - for what? *sigh* I would like to use my table for more than just hacking and being geeky and nerdy
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All in good time, all in good time http://pulsene.ws/13FfG
Ipad2: 16000 apps vs. Xoom: 100 apps
Ipad2 is not just a device, it has super strong apps.
jackylee2046 said:
Ipad2: 16000 apps vs. Xoom: 100 apps
Ipad2 is not just a device, it has super strong apps.
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What a legitimate and original argument
p.s. it's a little stupid and obvious to compare the application availability of a recycled OS like iOS that has been regurgitated over the last 4 years with the last major release coming ~9 months ago featuring mainly incremental changes to an overhauled OS with vastly changed APIs whose SDK was released ~2 weeks ago.
Lady756 said:
After all the stuff I read on these boards in the past couple of days, Android sheep are no different than Apple sheep. They are just as close-minded.
Sheep are sheep...lol
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How True!
If I am to keep my Xoom then it will have to live with being tethered to my iPhone LOL!!! I just hope that all my media files will work on the Xoom.
Any official source of this?
Flaunt77 said:
IPAD 2 video capabilities are lower than XOOM
Video formats supported: H.264 video up to 720p, 30 frames per second, Main Profile level 3.1 with AAC-LC audio up to 160 Kbps, 48kHz, stereo audio in .m4v, .mp4, and .mov file formats; MPEG-4 video, up to 2.5 Mbps, 640 by 480 pixels, 30 frames per second, Simple Profile with AAC-LC audio up to 160 Kbps per channel, 48kHz, stereo audio in .m4v, .mp4, and .mov file formats; Motion JPEG (M-JPEG) up to 35 Mbps, 1280 by 720 pixels, 30 frames per second, audio in ulaw, PCM stereo audio in .avi file format
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Sent from my Nexus S using XDA App
I don't care about who wins spec-wise. If you are comparing two honeycomb tablets, then spec matters. You are comparing two different platforms, both are good at different things. Android fanboy and Apple haters on this forum won't like the iPad even if it came with quad-core and 4GB ram + 20 hours battery life, they would just continue to rant and troll about iOS anyway.
The killer feature of the iPad 1 and 2, however, is price. As Jobs pointed out, 5 out of 6 iPad 2 models are cheaper than $799. Furthermore, iPad 1 starting price is now lowered to $399. Motorola, do something about your stupid pricing scheme.
xoom specs win,, but ipad2's one is good enough and thiner and lighter.
and more important is that the android marrket for pad is much weaker than the ios' one.
xoom has to cut down the price. ($489? for 16gb no 3g data)
Lady756 said:
The Xoom may beat the iPad 2 in specs....but I view the iPad and Android tablets as two different beasts. iPads are multimedia devices....you can watch Netflix, Hulu, ABC, etc. etc. and easily rent and buy movies and tv shows from iTunes. You can also be productive on it (I can't, but I'm sure other people can). So if people can do all those things plus have instant access to thousands upon thousands of iPAD apps (not phone apps), what do specs matter? If the device does what you want, who cares about 4g or a microsd?
I really wish the developers would hurry up with Android.
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+1 ..... Come on Google!!

XOOM vs Ipad 2 Video playback

Ipad 2:
Video formats supported: H.264 video up to 720p, 30 frames per second, Main Profile level 3.1 with AAC-LC audio up to 160 Kbps, 48kHz, stereo audio in .m4v, .mp4, and .mov file formats; MPEG-4 video, up to 2.5 Mbps, 640 by 480 pixels, 30 frames per second, Simple Profile with AAC-LC audio up to 160 Kbps per channel, 48kHz, stereo audio in .m4v, .mp4, and .mov file formats; Motion JPEG (M-JPEG) up to 35 Mbps, 1280 by 720 pixels, 30 frames per second, audio in ulaw, PCM stereo audio in .avi file format
XOOM:
If you stick with H.264 Baseline Profile, you can achieve up to 1920x1080p at 30 fps at 20Mbps.
Baseline Profile means:
- No CABAC entropy coding.
- No B frames
- No 8x8 transforms (DCT)
- No Weighted Prediction
For 1280x720p at 30 fps, you can go up to 20Mbps and Motorola XOOM should still be able to handle it. More Realistically, depending on the content, you can get away with 4Mbps and up with varying degrees of quality. If you are tight on space, use 4Mbps. If you want something to look good you can use 10/12 Mbps. At some point though the higher the bitrate will only translate to decreasing amounts of quality improvement. In other words, 20Mbps will probably look as good as 15Mbps, but will just use up more space. Ultimately, there is really no one size fits all solution and it may take a little experimentation to find the settings that work best for the content you wish to view.
Additionally your device does not have a limitation on certain types of B frames (Main profile tool). So you can add in B frames and not affect performance that much. If you are using a encoding tool that uses B frames, such as QuickTime Pro, you should be able to achieve main profile encoding.
If you are using a lower resolution that 720p (such as 720x480 resolution size) in order to encode longer length video , you can get away with using more tools (High and Main profile tools). However, encoding become more complex and may require more experimentation to achieve acceptable results.
In general, if you are concern about performance, use baseline tools and possibly b-frames (with no weighted prediction). This will give you the best performance.
Also as side note, if you are upscaling from a DVD to 720p try to use the best upscaling algorithm provided and don't expect to get true 720p quality from upscaled DVD.
Looks like Xoom is a tad bit better in terms of supported Hardware video decode capabilities.
In terms of GPU - it seems that the Ipad 2 may have a bit of an edge with the new power VR 543 - though this is not official as there are no direct comparisons yet.
Well my Epic4g with the Powervr SGX540 plays back high profile 720p FLAWLESSLY. The iPad will be capable of much more than that with the newer chip. The video standards that they "support" are the ones that they use through itunes and in no way represent the highest possible encoding of video that will play back. The instant XBMC hits the iPad2, I expect at least 1080p main profile to work since 1080p high profile ALMOST works on the iPad1.
muyoso said:
Well my Epic4g with the Powervr SGX540 plays back high profile 720p FLAWLESSLY. The iPad will be capable of much more than that with the newer chip. The video standards that they "support" are the ones that they use through itunes and in no way represent the highest possible encoding of video that will play back. The instant XBMC hits the iPad2, I expect at least 1080p main profile to work since 1080p high profile ALMOST works on the iPad1.
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What's that you say, the iPad can output 1080p? Well sort of. The iPad can mirror its 1024x768 display in 1080p but it still won't decode 1080p H.264 videos, and we don't know what type of TV you have, but we'd bet ours does a little bit better job of scaling than the magical iPad. All that being said, the iPad 2's new form factor will increase its desirability as a couch companion --not to mention we'll buy anything with magnets -- but an HD source device, not so much.
That's from engadget
http://hd.engadget.com/2011/03/02/the-ipad-2-and-1080p-theres-nothing-to-see-here/
There are a lot of threads about xoom video limitations.
Am I the only person who just copied dvd rips from my iTunes folder straight to the xoom, and watch them with zero issues?
Maybe my handbrake settings arent top-notch, but the quality/size trade off worked fine on my old I pad, and work fine for the xoom. If I wanted full crazy HD, i'd watch from the blu-ray disk directly, on a TV that does it justice.
Am I crazy?
Sent from my Xoom using XDA App
It won't do it officially. Once it its jailbroken though it will have xbmc and will have ridiculous capabilities. For example the current ipad can play 720p high profile with xbmc now.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
Bauxite said:
Because the specs page for the iPad 2 lists SO many more formats.... stop trolling.
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What the specs page lists for the iPad 2 is irrelevant. Here my iPad1 playing a 720p [email protected] h.264 mkv file:
http://vimeo.com/20636064
Pretty sure the iPad never had that listed on its specs page. For a comparison, here is the Notion Ink and the Xoom playing back that exact same clip:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXWu6m33EP0&feature=player_detailpage#t=231s
muyoso said:
What the specs page lists for the iPad 2 is irrelevant. Here my iPad1 playing a 720p [email protected] h.264 mkv file:
http://vimeo.com/20636064
Pretty sure the iPad never had that listed on its specs page.
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How long did it take from the MOMENT the iPad was released to when that became supported by some app?
People act like just because there are no apps RIGHT NOW for the xoom to play additional formats that there never ever will be.
Bauxite said:
How long did it take from the MOMENT the iPad was released to when that became supported by some app?
People act like just because there are no apps RIGHT NOW for the xoom to play additional formats that there never ever will be.
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It took a while for XBMC to be ported, 9 months or so. Dont know if they were working on it that entire time. The reason people act like that BTW is because the Tegra 2 is incapable of hardware decoding [email protected] or higher. Here is the guy who ported XBMC to the iPad and AppleTV and who was tasked with porting to Tegra 2 devices talking about it:
http://forum.xbmc.org/showpost.php?p=735285&postcount=41
Believe me, I wish that were not the case. Wants me some Xoom or Galaxy Tab 10.1 action.
Correct me if I'm wrong but the only thing difference I seem to see from baseline and high profile h.264 is compression. My Xoom is fully capable of displaying the converted 720p mkvs with no chop/stutter in widescreen format on its screen. I've yet to test out hdmi out to my TV though.
Unless you want to talk about bitrate, but I can hardly tell the difference in quality loss vs source on something that I downloaded off the internet.
iceytea said:
Correct me if I'm wrong but the only thing difference I seem to see from baseline and high profile h.264 is compression. My Xoom is fully capable of displaying the converted 720p mkvs with no chop/stutter in widescreen format on its screen. I've yet to test out hdmi out to my TV though.
Unless you want to talk about bitrate, but I can hardly tell the difference in quality loss vs source on something that I downloaded off the internet.
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Oh there is no doubt that you can convert the video to play back perfectly on the Xoom. That isn't in question. I personally just think its ridiculous to have to.
Good read on the differences here, especially on page 3:
http://www.polycom.com/global/documents/whitepapers/h264_high_profile_wp.pdf
Warning, above is a direct link to a pdf.
Thanks for the read, I skimmed it and it pretty much sums up as higher compression without visual quality loss. I never put it together that the development of high profile was used for bandwidth savings though, interesting.
muyoso said:
Oh there is no doubt that you can convert the video to play back perfectly on the Xoom. That isn't in question. I personally just think its ridiculous to have to.
Good read on the differences here, especially on page 3:
http://www.polycom.com/global/documents/whitepapers/h264_high_profile_wp.pdf
Warning, above is a direct link to a pdf.
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Thank you for your posts, and yes, I COMPLETELY AGREE with you! Once I began my due diligence today comparing the iPad 1, iPad 2, and the Xoom I thought to see if high profile h.264 was supported.
I was shocked to find out that the Tegra 2's hw (and Nvidia has confirmed this) does not support high profile h.264. BUT.... the iPad 1 does?! It's ridiculous quite frankly, and in my eyes, Tegra 2 is partial failure because of it.
Anyway, iPad 1 handles that Planet Earth clip (i.e. the de facto pseudo h.264 720p/1080p benchmark for years it seems!) beautifully. How's the batter life when watching h.264? How long can you get? Also, I would think the iPad 2 is capable of 1080p high profile yes?
In any event, I won't be buying a zoom. For the steeper price point, that is just insulting. I'm gonna try to find one of the remnant ipad 1s from Verizon that have been creeping around for ~$300, however unlikely at that price point it may be to find!
Kudos to your efforts and exposing this massive fault in the Xoom. I have NEVER been a fan of reconversion of the years, from divx in its earliest days through xvid (when apple ironically pushed 'reconversion' into mainstream)... glad that w/ this bad boy that won't be necessary as I'd never do it, too much hassle and insulting, imho.
Not being able to play 720p videos is the main reason I returned the xoom. If I am forced to convert videos I might as well do it for the ipad.
I am so tempted to sell my xoom because of this video playback issue...
I have a lot of bluray rips and I cant watch them on the xoom.
They were encoded using the Apple TV2 preset in handbrake, which I'm guessing is high profile
Oh wow, if this is that serious most of the Honeycomb tablets will be losing quite a lot of sells. I hope Samsung doesn't use the Tegra in their tabs. I'm fine with their Exynos, assuming it has the amazing codec support their Hummingbird does.
Its not the chip ( http://www.nvidia.com/object/tegra-2.html ) supports 1080p h264 just fine. As it stands right now, best I have been able to gather, it is a software/firmware (likely drivers) issue causing the poor playback.
pjcforpres said:
Its not the chip ( http://www.nvidia.com/object/tegra-2.html ) supports 1080p h264 just fine. As it stands right now, best I have been able to gather, it is a software/firmware (likely drivers) issue causing the poor playback.
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That would seem to make since, but I believe in Google...A phrase I never thought I would be saying ever lol.
Sorry. But there isn't much doubt at this time that it IS in fact the "chip"
There are dozens upon dozens upon dozens of articles at this point citing the same thing: Tegra 2 CANNOT DECODE HIGH PROFILE VIDEO.
Period.
If you need me to cite about 50 different sources, I would be happy to do so.
Digital Man said:
Sorry. But there isn't much doubt at this time that it IS in fact the "chip"
There are dozens upon dozens upon dozens of articles at this point citing the same thing: Tegra 2 CANNOT DECODE HIGH PROFILE VIDEO.
Period.
If you need me to cite about 50 different sources, I would be happy to do so.
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No, no, I'll take your word for it. I guess some of us were hoping that it was just a honeycomb issue that would be fixed with an update.
pjcforpres said:
Its not the chip ( http://www.nvidia.com/object/tegra-2.html ) supports 1080p h264 just fine. As it stands right now, best I have been able to gather, it is a software/firmware (likely drivers) issue causing the poor playback.
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The Xoom can play baseline 1080p h.264. The Xoom cannot play 720p high profile h.264. I would venture to guess that 90% of all video that people have that they didn't videotape themselves is high profile h.264 with 9.99% of the remainder being main profile h.264.
hakujin said:
Anyway, iPad 1 handles that Planet Earth clip (i.e. the de facto pseudo h.264 720p/1080p benchmark for years it seems!) beautifully. How's the batter life when watching h.264? How long can you get? Also, I would think the iPad 2 is capable of 1080p high profile yes?
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The iPad 1 handles the Planet Earth clip perfectly, but do realize that it is a jailbroken iPad with XBMC installed. The iPad does not natively support high profile h.264 even though the hardware is capable, because Apple wants you to buy media through iTunes.
The iPad 2 SHOULD be capable of 1080p high profile, but we won't know for sure until it too is jailbroken and XBMC is installed/optimized.

For Those That Doubted The Xooms Full HD Playback

Like the thread title says ive seen way too many posts bashing the playback quality so to those people watch this video on your xooms browser and you will be impressed and appreciate it more
http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?deskto...e.com/watch?v=iFohN2-Hqhg&v=iFohN2-Hqhg&gl=US
I think most people are talking about videos that they load onto the device sometimes has choppy playback. We know YouTube plays great. I haven't loaded much onto my device yet but you do experience some slowdown or choppyness I some videos. Most play without a hitch for me though
Sent from my Xoom
I have several blu ray rips on mine and I haven't experienced any issues so far I converted using handbrake
I think the issue is the software people use to rip.
Granted I don't have my Xoom yet but I've read a lot of threads in preparation and I think the problem is the profile used to rip rather than the software. Apparently high profile 720p isn't working on the Xoom.
Hopefully it's a codec thing and fixable by either Moto adding the codecs or some third party app like CorePlayer.
Sent from my Desire HD using XDA App
PaulG1488 said:
I have several blu ray rips on mine and I haven't experienced any issues so far I converted using handbrake
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I dont have my Xoom yet, but just so i know for when i get it, what profile/settings do you use for the converted rip?
kcm117 said:
I dont have my Xoom yet, but just so i know for when i get it, what profile/settings do you use for the converted rip?
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There is a Xoom profile out there that works perfectly. See middle of this page http://www.xoomfaq.com/video/
1080p is a size not a measure of quality. I had a standard def camera that will shoot a better picture than my handheld HD cam and will shoot better than any phone or tablet camera. I do not know many that can tell the difference between high quality 720 vs 1080. Probably the same folks that can tell the difference between a 160kbps MP3 file vs a 300kbps one
Real HD, that plays off your BluRay player, is 48 Mbit/s. No tablet made today can play that level of quality.
Just because nobody mentioned it..
The problem was/is that users feel that most downloadable HD content files should not have to be re-encoded to play on an $600-$800 device. It is not that we can't use handbrake, or can't figure out how to download the preset which has already been posted on XDA. It is time consuming.
I got over it though, because watching 720P Tv shows on the train with the Xoom is awesome.
I loaded a Kenny vs. Spenny episode onto a store display via my Evo's bluetooth and it played fine. If the videos I converted for my Evo work on my Xoom, then that's fine with me, and it looks like they will. I cant tell the difference between 720 and 1080 on a 10 inch screen unless I stare so hard I get a head ache anyway.
DebianDog said:
There is a Xoom profile out there that works perfectly. See middle of this page http://www.xoomfaq.com/video/
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The link provided takes you to a page with XML code...how do you import this to Handbrake? Did you create a notepad file, copy/paste the text, and rename it with a .plist or .xml extension? I couldn't find any info on this in the Handbrake wiki.
As others have stated, its a tegra 2 issue. Tegra 2 is incapable of playing high profile h.264 video @ L4.1 or higher. Its a limitation of the video decode processor. As it stands right now, no tegra2 device has been seen playing ANY high profile video at all smoothly. Tegra 2 can play some main profile h.264 as long as its encoded exactly how the tegra2 likes it, ie no b frames etc.
The reason people like myself take issue with this is that the original ipad can play 720p high profile h.264 and my epic4g can play 720p high profile h.264. Neither of these devices were sold as being particularly capable of playing hd content. The xoom on the other hand was specifically sold as being able to play hd content, and the tegra.2 was advertised at being particlarly good at doing so. Then when both the xoom and tegra 2 are released we come to realize that it was a bs marketing ploy and "technically" it can display videos that are 720p and 1080p, but only if they are formatted in a ridiculously specific encode.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
muyoso said:
As others have stated, its a tegra 2 issue. Tegra 2 is incapable of playing high profile h.264 video @ L4.1 or higher. Its a limitation of the video decode processor. As it stands right now, no tegra2 device has been seen playing ANY high profile video at all smoothly. Tegra 2 can play some main profile h.264 as long as its encoded exactly how the tegra2 likes it, ie no b frames etc.
The reason people like myself take issue with this is that the original ipad can play 720p high profile h.264 and my epic4g can play 720p high profile h.264. Neither of these devices were sold as being particularly capable of playing hd content. The xoom on the other hand was specifically sold as being able to play hd content, and the tegra.2 was advertised at being particlarly good at doing so. Then when both the xoom and tegra 2 are released we come to realize that it was a bs marketing ploy and "technically" it can display videos that are 720p and 1080p, but only if they are formatted in a ridiculously specific encode.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
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This pretty much sums it up.
While I'm keeping my Xoom and have made peace with transcoding my videos I'd be lying if I said I wasn't expecting more from the video playback when I bought it.
MichaelWestin said:
Just because nobody mentioned it..
The problem was/is that users feel that most downloadable HD content files should not have to be re-encoded to play on an $600-$800 device. It is not that we can't use handbrake, or can't figure out how to download the preset which has already been posted on XDA. It is time consuming.
I got over it though, because watching 720P Tv shows on the train with the Xoom is awesome.
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This nails the issue right on the head. Most 720p TV shows available on Usenet or via Bittorrent are encoded using video codec H264 "high" settings. From what I've read, the xoom struggles to play these files, which I would not have expected given its hardware specs. I'm still going to pick up a wifi-only model from Costco on Sunday, but I may jump to the Galaxy Tab if it is able to play "high" H264 files.
patass said:
I cant tell the difference between 720 and 1080 on a 10 inch screen unless I stare so hard I get a head ache anyway.
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DebianDog said:
I do not know many that can tell the difference between high quality 720 vs 1080.
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Click to collapse
I'm pretty sure I read awhile back that for small screens (like 27" and smaller), if you're sitting/standing within a distance (say within 10 feet) it is pretty much impossible to tell if something is 720p vs 1080p. It only becomes more apparent on larger screens. Other people have mentioned it's probably too difficult to tell on a 10.1" screen, but I'm pretty sure it IS impossible to tell by just looking at it on a screen of that size. So 1080p is just overkill to me, only if you're going to output it on a large screen or something.
pekosROB said:
I'm pretty sure I read awhile back that for small screens (like 27" and smaller), if you're sitting/standing within a distance (say within 10 feet) it is pretty much impossible to tell if something is 720p vs 1080p. It only becomes more apparent on larger screens. Other people have mentioned it's probably too difficult to tell on a 10.1" screen, but I'm pretty sure it IS impossible to tell by just looking at it on a screen of that size. So 1080p is just overkill to me, only if you're going to output it on a large screen or something.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You have it wrong. You lose the ability to distinguish the resolution the further away from the screen you get. Since a tablet is right in front of you, you can certainly tell the difference. That said, it isn't really relevant because the Xoom only has a 720p screen and that isn't the point. We already have 1080p video encoded for use on other devices/screens and we don't want to have to re-encode them to play on the Xoom.
khov07 said:
The link provided takes you to a page with XML code...how do you import this to Handbrake? Did you create a notepad file, copy/paste the text, and rename it with a .plist or .xml extension? I couldn't find any info on this in the Handbrake wiki.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Try this one
sangreal06 said:
That said, it isn't really relevant because the Xoom only has a 720p screen and that isn't the point.
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Click to collapse
Yeah, totally forgot to mention that. 1280x800 definitely can't play full 1080p.
And yeah, I didn't factor in the "you sit way closer to a tablet than a TV factor," but I still would find it hard to believe that people could tell the difference of 720p vs 1080p on a 10.1" screen (even if you are 1-2 feet away, assuming the screen does support 1080p). Definitely not old people - my parents at first didn't see the difference between SD and HD. Now they can definitely tell and even laugh about how they couldn't distinguish the two at first.
Yes, they don't have the best eyesight at their age now. This is why I usually drive when we go somewhere.
sangreal06 said:
You have it wrong. You lose the ability to distinguish the resolution the further away from the screen you get. Since a tablet is right in front of you, you can certainly tell the difference. That said, it isn't really relevant because the Xoom only has a 720p screen and that isn't the point. We already have 1080p video encoded for use on other devices/screens and we don't want to have to re-encode them to play on the Xoom.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have the "problem" that I ripped all my movies and shows to fit my iPod classic screen (and the car stereo) at 640x480. I unless I want to watch a mini video I'll have to convert the movies anyway. I don't see what the big deal is. If you change your hardware you should expect to run into some kind of trouble. And honestly, our 720p HDTV in the kitchen has a brilliant picture and is hardly any different from the 1080p HDTVs that we have in other rooms.
The "big deal" is for warez peeps who can't play their warez HD videos. They know nothing about video encoding, and they don't want to know. But they do like to get on forums to whine about how they can't play their stolen goods. I've explained enough times that I feel like a broken record, but willful ignorance is a hard habit to break. But once more into the breach...
@muyoso
>Tegra 2 is incapable of playing high profile h.264 video @ L4.1 or higher
There's nothing that said a H.264 video has to be encoded at level 4.1. For 720p @30fps, 3.1 is fine. Check the H.264 wiki you're so fond of quoting. L4.1 is a warez standard.
But if you want, I can post a high profile @L4.1 clip, and I'll bet it will play just fine. Will you then shut up and leave?
>original ipad can play 720p high profile h.264 and my epic4g can play 720p high profile h.264
Great, no need for you to buy anything else then.
>Tegra 2 can play some main profile h.264 as long as its encoded exactly how the tegra2 likes it, ie no b frames etc.
BS. The Handbrake script I've posted, and people have used, used straight main profile (which allows B-frames).
>Then when both the xoom and tegra 2 are released we come to realize that it was a bs marketing ploy and "technically" it can display videos that are 720p and 1080p, but only if they are formatted in a ridiculously specific encode.
What's ridiculous is expecting devices to support warez videos, all of which are encoded for the PC platform, and many of which are badly encoded.
The problem with your whining is that it's all predicated on warez, and that's not something you can offer as evidence when it's put-up time and you're asked for proof.
>Its a limitation of the video decode processor.
And you know this because how? The Xoom is the first HC Teg2 device, and it's still in beta status. Every other Teg2 tab available thus far were Froyo, and all of them were also in beta status. Everything points to the driver support.
I asked you this twice before, and I'll ask it a third time: If you think the Teg2 is incapable of playing your warez vids, why are you still here?
e.mote said:
>Its a limitation of the video decode processor.
And you know this because how? The Xoom is the first HC Teg2 device, and it's still in beta status. Every other Teg2 tab available thus far were Froyo, and all of them were also in beta status. Everything points to the driver support.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
driver or not, high profile decoding of h264 is a know limitation of tegra2.
http://www.anandtech.com/show/4181/...-a9s-coming-to-smartphonestablets-this-year/3
One of the stones we've thrown at NVIDIA is the lack of high profile H.264 decode support. Tegra 2 can decode main profile H.264 at up to 20Mbps, but throw any high profile 1080p content at the chip and it can't do it. This is a problem because a lot of video content out there today is high profile, high bitrate 1080p H.264.
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Click to collapse

[INFO] A500 720p/1080p HD Questions & some Answers.

I'm not an expert but I do my research and reading before I post information.
That being said, here's a little education - maybe from the wrong sources (lol) in video profiles and resolutions.
Many people want to know what the A500 can play. Currently, the answer to that is "probably not everything you have". The reason for this is HONEYCOMB, not Tegra 2. Tegra while aged, is still a pretty potent media powerhouse.
Now I shall hit you with a barrage of stats, don't worry I'll cite the sources.
First we have to know the details on what profiles are. I didn't until probably 2 days ago because frankly I didn't care, so long as it sounds good and looks crystal clear on my LCD-LED TV or Notebook, I'm a happy camper.
Profiles & Resolutions
Take a quick look at that. What you're looking at there are some examples of what profiles are. As you can see there are 3 profiles in general for the vc 1 codec. You can also see why there are profiles and the details of what each profile entails and the resolutions and bitrates of the files considered in each of them. Also consider that this is just a part of the wider audio video container file structure.
Here's a comparison of the various container formats
This is why so many people are confused really. What we're seeing right now is a big limit on what Honeycomb can play. In general, HP 1080p are pretty rare in file form because they're absolutely huge and you can barely if at all stream them over wifi even as compressed as they are. It's really exactly like pushing blu ray over wifi.
Here are common formats and extensions used by itunes/amazon and the stuff you'll find on torrents (if you do that sorta thing).
Most popular and what you probably have:
AVI Extension
MP4 Extension
MKV Extension
AVI uses most recently the H264/MP4 format which is very popular. When you hear people talking about Baseline, Main and High profiles this is what they are referring to generally. MP4 also uses this format as well as MKV. Something special about the MKV extension is that it can house almost ANY format.
Less popular and you may have a few:
RMVB
DIVX
WMA
Some of these also utilize H264/MP4 though it may cause issues. But they will generally use Mpeg4 part 2 or mpeg 2 as they are older or not necessarily striving to be top quality. Divx are generally given out with Blu Ray discs.
Hey, where's xvid?!
Xvid isn't a format at all. It's a codec for encoding in mpeg 4. So your xvid encoded stuff can be avi or mp4.
HD Flash stutters!! GAaAaAhHh!!!
Yep, it was provided as a rush job imho and enhancements in Honeycomb should provide a better experience by the time 3.1 hits. I also suspect that some things will be ironed out when we next get updates but that's not a fact, just something I think will happen. Right now, I just think media decoding was a last priority for Google. But I have no doubt they'll get around to it. What I'm saying is that flash stuttering again, isn't Tegra 2's fault. It's Honeycomb and Adobes.
480p/576p, 720p, 1080p?
If a video runs natively at 1920x1080, it is considered full HD. If 1280x720 it's full HD 720p. Under to a certain value then marketed and considered as 720p HD. Even 1280x544 or such may be considered 720p HD. As a general rule of thumb if the Frame width is 1280 or higher, it's generally considered HD. This is due to aspect ratios and such, I won't get into that as I think you get the point.
If it falls below that, it's generally not.
Now for the good stuff, What CAN Tegra 2 decode/play?
Tegra 2 Hardware [What it can play/record]
As you can see here, officially Tegra 2 is not limited to the few filetypes or profiles we're able to play currently; of course Nvidia doesn't specify detail profiles at all but it's understandable as it'd be difficult to specify profiles for every format and extension it can play. The good thing is that certain manufacturers attempt to, so I'll post that next.
Note however that almost every format is compatible, which in essence means you're covered over a number of extensions.
H.264
VC-1 AP
MPEG2
MPEG-4
DivX 4/5
XviD HT
H.263
Theora
VP8
WMV
Sorenson Spark
Real Video
VP6
Now for the ugly details. What can and can't WE do and what will we never be able to do? (Because of Tegra 2 vs. Honeycomb limitations).
I owned a Gtablet, and it was advertised as being able to play S1080p H.264/H.263/ VC-1/MPEG-2/4/WMV9/DiVX 4/5 Video.
Acer's manual states that the Iconia is able to play H.264 BP, H.264 MP, H.264 HP, MPEG-4 SP, H.263 at 720p. H264 HP = High Profile and we also are told that it's limited for now to 720p video. This is agreeably very limited right now, but you can clearly see (if your power of comparison is on key) that this is due to either the manufacturer or Honeycomb and not Tegra 2.
I was able to play everything I have including my 1920x1080 resolution stuff on my GTablet.
Because both the Xoom and Asus tablets, the only other 2 Honeycomb tablets on the market right now are in a similar predicament, I'm pointing the finger (and blame) squarely on Honeycomb being the limiting factor for us right now.
I don't think the Tegra 2 can handle very HP Full 1080p video. I don't think anything out there save for top end CPUs and dedicated blu ray players can play hardcore really high profile full 1080p and I also don't think there are many people that will have these files sitting on their PC in data form. They also can't be streamed because they're encoded so they play at higher bitrates than wifi N can handle. 20+ GB is the filesize of true high profile encoded stuff. 4GB and 8GB BR rips are generally using the Main Profile or High Profile 720p which it CAN play as well as S1080p which if you do happen to have 1080p stuff, is more than likely what you have.
Hmm, so what can the A500 play, and what can it play in the future?
We have to be careful and responsible about what we're saying here. So many people are claiming Tegra 2 to be the culprit. While Tegra 2 DOES have that limitation of not being able to play very high profile stuff, the truth is that no tablet or phone can. What people are likely miffed about is the issue of getting the "cannot play this file type" or whatever the message is and THAT isn't due to the hardware, but the software and is indeed fixable in the future.
There's no reason Froyo/Gingerbread should be able to achieve this (even on tablets) and Honeycomb not.
To say the A500 can't play HP 720p HD is therefore 100% incorrect. It can, it just is very limited about what formats it can play it in right now. To say the A500 can't play 1080p HD is correct, HOWEVER to say it's a Tegra 2 limitation is incorrect, it's a Honeycomb limitation right now.
To say Tegra 2 isn't capable of playing high profile HD is also 100% incorrect. The only real limitation is playing high profile 1080p stuff which I think only a very few people would do (considering that's an ~ 20GB big file). It's kinda like telling a True Lie or 1/2 truth? Whatever.
Update: Forgot to touch on Audio which is an important factor of this whole debacle. According to the manual, the A500 will decode AAC-LC, AAC, AAC+ (Not raw AAC), AMR-NB, AMR-WB, MP3, OGG Vorbis and WAV.
Hopefully this biblical length post will point some people in the right direction and clear up some misconceptions.
If others who know in detail about this stuff want to chime in and make the details more clear, feel free.
Been completely new to the android OS, how often does Google update their OS?
I have found that Mobo player will play most files other programs wont play.
But one thing still remains; The stuttering! Why can't it play it back smoothly? is it a bug or something or is it poorly optimized?

720P Playback horrible?

Hey guys,
So they boast about the 1080p playback on the Samsung Galaxy Tab 10.1, however I haven't had much luck with this. I tried putting on two different 720p video files on and both of them have sub-par playback.
One of them is an MP4 with h.264 and it plays okay on the default video (gallery) player but theres a bit of a stutter and doesn't play extremely well.
The other is an h.264 MKV and that doesn't even play audio in certain cases and the video doesn't play well at all under the default gallery application.
I tried three other media players - rock media player, Vplayer, and doubletwist and none of them play it any better. I find it sort of strange that it's having trouble handling these sorts of files. I can maybe understand the MKV file but the standard MP4 file is a little concerning
I find Vital Player performs better than the ones you have already mentioned. QQplayer is ok sometimes too and I've heard people talking about drobo player but I have not tried yet.
VitalPlayer played my mp4 a little better almost perfect with hardware decoding, however the mkv was still problematic :-/
Try:
MoboPlayer
and
MoboPlayer Codec for ARMV7VFP3
It bring in Tegra 2 Support not yet optimized but still pretty good.
Also if you have rooted your tab take your CPU off interactive (Default and horrible) and put it on Performance or OnDemand.
50-3 said:
Try:
MoboPlayer
and
MoboPlayer Codec for ARMV7VFP3
It bring in Tegra 2 Support not yet optimized but still pretty good.
Also if you have rooted your tab take your CPU off interactive (Default and horrible) and put it on Performance or OnDemand.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's not a software flaw , it'tegra limitation to playback high profiles encoded files. Tegra allow hardware decoding of main profile Encode file only.
50-3 said:
Try:
MoboPlayer
and
MoboPlayer Codec for ARMV7VFP3
It bring in Tegra 2 Support not yet optimized but still pretty good.
Also if you have rooted your tab take your CPU off interactive (Default and horrible) and put it on Performance or OnDemand.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Interesting, I haven't tried MoboPlayer yet but I will give it a go tonight. In regards to the cpu being on interactive. What?! Really? I was trying to find a reason to root and that might be one is to put it on OnDemand.
aefelix said:
It's not a software flaw , it'tegra limitation to playback high profiles encoded files. Tegra allow hardware decoding of main profile Encode file only.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What exactly do you mean by this? I'm having trouble understanding your last statement.
kentoe said:
What exactly do you mean by this? I'm having trouble understanding your last statement.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think he's saying that altering your CPU probably wont make much of a difference since it's the lack of GPU hardware decoding for high profile encoded videos that's likely causing any kind of stuttering. In short, it's not your CPU's fault or Honeycomb's fault, it's your GPU's fault.
RickBaller said:
I think he's saying that altering your CPU probably wont make much of a difference since it's the lack of GPU hardware decoding for high profile encoded videos that's likely causing any kind of stuttering. In short, it's not your CPU's fault or Honeycomb's fault, it's your GPU's fault.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Interesting, I find it odd though that when selecting hardware in certain players it does play better. But when selecting software in some players it plays better than other players hardware. It just seems like some sort of issue that isn't really making much sense.
Yeah, moboplayer wasn't any better either :-/
It is Tegra limitation and it is a problem for ALL Tegra 2 based tablets.
Go to any forum Xoom, Transformer, Adam Ink... i is general issue.
If one wants to play movies (and do other "super advanced stuff") one should have buy a previus generation tablet like Galaxy Tab 7" or Archos, etc.
Some of us still hope that retail GT 10.1 will come in with Exynos CPU instead of Tegra. If not it, than quite a lot of phones will be more powerfull than Tegra 2 tablet computers.
+ none of new tabs is divix certified like some of the old ones were :-(
I wonder how will TouchPad perform in that matter?
If GT 10.1 is indeed Tegra 2 based I am in trouble.
Watching movies (in bed) is quite important to me.
I will either wait for 10" HTC or Amazon tablet (gossip goes it will have Kal-El inside) or I'll just get iPad 2 (seems to be more capable in that regard than new Android tablets).
galtom said:
It is Tegra limitation and it is a problem for ALL Tegra 2 based tablets.
Go to any forum Xoom, Transformer, Adam Ink... i is general issue.
If one wants to play movies (and do other "super advanced stuff") one should have buy a previus generation tablet like Galaxy Tab 7" or Archos, etc.
Some of us still hope that retail GT 10.1 will come in with Exynos CPU instead of Tegra. If not it, than quite a lot of phones will be more powerfull than Tegra 2 tablet computers.
+ none of new tabs is divix certified like some of the old ones were :-(
I wonder how will TouchPad perform in that matter?
If GT 10.1 is indeed Tegra 2 based I am in trouble.
Watching movies (in bed) is quite important to me.
I will either wait for 10" HTC or Amazon tablet (gossip goes it will have Kal-El inside) or I'll just get iPad 2 (seems to be more capable in that regard than new Android tablets).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Is the ipad2 better at video playback?
If jailbroken - YES.
Its CPU (by Samsung) is more capable than Tegra 2 .
galtom said:
If jailbroken - YES.
Its CPU (by Samsung) is more capable than Tegra 2 .
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have the iPad2 and Asus Transformer which uses the Tegra 2. My iPad 2 is not jailbroken and it surpasses the Asus Transformer for video playback. My iPad2 plays High Profile 720p MP4 with the stock player, and with AVPlayerHD from the App Store, I can play High Profile 720p MKV and it will support embedded subtitles along with xvid/divx avi formats.
The Transformer chokes on anything High Profile. Sure you can use Moboplayer or Vital Player as they support subtitles, but they only support external subtitles and they still can't play High Profile.
Don't get me wrong here; I'm not an Apple fanboy at all. Just clearing up that iPad2 is the better video player period and does not need to be jailbroken to do so.
songmeesay said:
I have the iPad2 and Asus Transformer which uses the Tegra 2. My iPad 2 is not jailbroken and it surpasses the Asus Transformer for video playback. My iPad2 plays High Profile 720p MP4 with the stock player, and with AVPlayerHD from the App Store, I can play High Profile 720p MKV and it will support embedded along subtitles along with xvid/divx avi formats.
The Transformer chokes on anything High Profile. Sure you can use Moboplayer or Vital Player as they support subtitles, but they only support external subtitles and they still can't play High Profile.
Don't get me wrong here; I'm not an Apple fanboy at all. Just clearing up that iPad2 is the better video player period and does not need to be jailbroken to do so.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How is the Ipad with youtube playback? It really bothers me that the tegra 2 tablets can't play videos in "hq" mode without horrible stuttering. I'm hoping 3.1 fixes this.
Ah, YouTube is a different story. The YouTube videos that the iPad can play are excellent... if they aren't Flash! However, there are browsers like Skyfire in the app market that plays flash but I haven't tried it yet. From reading reviews, 3.1 does seem to address those issues. All in all for YouTube, the Asus has the upperhand especially if you watch YouTube on the stock browser.
songmeesay said:
Ah, YouTube is a different story. The YouTube videos that the iPad can play are excellent... if they aren't Flash! However, there are browsers like Skyfire in the app market that plays flash but I haven't tried it yet. From reading reviews, 3.1 does seem to address those issues. All in all for YouTube, the Asus has the upperhand especially if you watch YouTube on the stock browser.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I tried watching youtube videos on the transformer with the youtube application and it was pretty bad. That was a while ago, is it better now?
Sorry for the derail.
I'm having no problems with the couple videos I'm watching now through the YouTube app. The only problem I get with YouTube is, of course, the HD playback in the browser but again I believe the Xoom owners have reported 3.1 fixes that.
Video playback capabilities of these Tegra Honeycomb tablets is a bit frustrating! My SGSII plays video and handles in-browser flash better (as in much better). I guess I will be connecting my phone to my television when I want to watch 1080p video, rather than my tablet...
songmeesay said:
From reading reviews, 3.1 does seem to address those issues.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
3.1 indeed helped with streaming performance (like YT) but mkv High Profile is still "no go"
NZtechfreak said:
Video playback capabilities of these Tegra Honeycomb tablets is a bit frustrating! My SGSII plays video and handles in-browser flash better (as in much better). I guess I will be connecting my phone to my television when I want to watch 1080p video, rather than my tablet...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
True... but in that case... why would I get a tablet?
Or (that will be the case for a lot of ppl.) if you can only afford one of those?
New (fully capable) smartphone or tablet (that can only do some of the thing phone can but has bigger screen). Which one?
Not, to mention... what is the point in creating device, a tablet COMPUTER that is beaten in functionality and performance by phone.
HEY!! Samsung, instead crappy 10.1v (or 10.1 if it is with Tegra) make Samsung Galaxy S II in XL size - that is all most of us needs right now (+ Honeycomb) - and we're sorted .
galtom said:
HEY!! Samsung, instead crappy 10.1v (or 10.1 if it is with Tegra) make Samsung Galaxy S II in XL size - that is all most of us needs right now (+ Honeycomb) - and we're sorted .
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed, but to be honest with all these reviews of the I/O versions and those boasting Tegra2, it seems the new official 10.1 will have it. I'm really back and forth about returning my Transformer to try a new 10.1 out. I mean I only plan to keep either one until the Tegra3 Kal-el tablets start rolling in (Asus and Amazon rumored to roll some out this year). Financially it'd be smarter to just stick with my Transformer, but I've always been about design and build and the Samsung sure looks like it has the Transformer beat. Trade off for build and form factor are the loss of the microSD expansion though, which means (according to the J&R pre-order pricing) I'd have to spend $599 for a 32GB Sammy vs. the $399 16GB Transformer+$35 16GB class 10 microSD card.

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