Why is it that independent teams of devs working in their spare time compile roms that are orders of magnitude better than the stock ones. HTC, Samsung, Motorola, you're doing it wrong.
Sent from my HTC Glacier using XDA App
kvonnegutjr said:
Why is it that independent teams of devs working in their spare time compile roms that are orders of magnitude better than the stock ones. HTC, Samsung, Motorola, you're doing it wrong.
Sent from my HTC Glacier using XDA App
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Because when stock rom is created the carrier along with manufacture add boltware which drag down it heavily. They have to release version that is guaranteed to work with the minimal effort which comes at physical cost to the companies so another reason they don't dash out updates or quick to jump as they need manpower to research which is usually supported by the manufacture.
Where here the open developers has access to newest patch as its updated thus they can amend it. Not only do the dev gets user feedback directly but they can work with the users to test it and deploy it faster correctly any flaws. Since most of the things we do breaks the TOS for carrier/manufacture warranty. We can better utilize the limited resource and translate it in to performance that would suit the user based on there need and not target the mass as an whole. This is where flavor of rom's come in as each dev add their own touch to it adding/subtracting what they think will improve it further, faster. Since its up to the user they can just flash new rom and not have to worry about the company maintaining and updating as another reason we have newer revisions faster as its maintained by the open community.
That answers my question of why the devs are doing it right. But why can't the manufactures pick up on this. To put it lightly the stock os for the mytouch 4g is crap. It hogs battery and it is slow. I guess my question should be why do they keep doing it wrong while devs are a perfect example of how to do it right.
Sent from my HTC Glacier using XDA App
because they want to make more money.
Edit: and stock OS isnt slow, nor is it crap. its one of the fastest out there atm (i.e. stock quadrant score ~1800-1900).
when you buy a HP or DELL, there are loads of crapwares pre-installed. if you want a clean fast computer, get the win dvd out repartition and do a fresh install. in the smartphone world, phone manufactures tries very hard to not let you do that. the stock mytouch 4g rom from tmobile usa is over 250mb. the cm7 rom is only 80mb but does much more and faster. it's a no brainer.
brianphanz0r said:
because they want to make more money.
Edit: and stock OS isnt slow, nor is it crap. its one of the fastest out there atm (i.e. stock quadrant score ~1800-1900).
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but it is loaded down with bloatware that not everyone wants to use.
And going from stock MySense ROM to a AOSP ROM, there is a huge speed difference. Quadrant Score might not show it, but it's there.
neidlinger said:
but it is loaded down with bloatware that not everyone wants to use.
And going from stock MySense ROM to a AOSP ROM, there is a huge speed difference. Quadrant Score might not show it, but it's there.
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I have yet to see it. Not accusing, just also observing. Never use quadrant, but bouncing back and forth between CM7 and stock for weeks has given me cause to believe that it's in the details, like look and feel, that ultimately separates these ROMs. Every ROM I've used has been extremely fast without problems. I just don't see this significant speed increase people are talking about. When I click on the appdrawer in MySense, it immediately opens, I don't know how it can be faster than immediately. Same thing across the entire user experience. At first I thought battery life was better on MySense (with reasonable management), but after extensive testing they are all very similar. I only keep a Mysense backup (that contains all of my old data) and frequently flash other roms for a day or two, in the end I come back to Mysense simply because I'm used to it and I can't find a reason to stick with any other ROM. I use faux's kernels and honestly believe that is where you make the biggest difference in the performance of the phone. Put his kernel of MySense and tell me it's slow. Anyways lots of words to say to each his own, I'll still continue to flash as long and new builds are released.
darinmc said:
I have yet to see it. Not accusing, just also observing. Never use quadrant, but bouncing back and forth between CM7 and stock for weeks has given me cause to believe that it's in the details, like look and feel, that ultimately separates these ROMs. Every ROM I've used has been extremely fast without problems. I just don't see this significant speed increase people are talking about. When I click on the appdrawer in MySense, it immediately opens, I don't know how it can be faster than immediately. Same thing across the entire user experience. At first I thought battery life was better on MySense (with reasonable management), but after extensive testing they are all very similar. I only keep a Mysense backup (that contains all of my old data) and frequently flash other roms for a day or two, in the end I come back to Mysense simply because I'm used to it and I can't find a reason to stick with any other ROM. I use faux's kernels and honestly believe that is where you make the biggest difference in the performance of the phone. Put his kernel of MySense and tell me it's slow. Anyways lots of words to say to each his own, I'll still continue to flash as long and new builds are released.
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why do people argue back and forth just for fun or what? you use whatever roms you like. nobody is forcing nobody to use this or that rom. just live your lives your way.
I'm aware there is bloatware that many people don't want to use. I am also aware that rooting and flashing roms makes your phone faster. That doesn't mean the stock rom is bad or slow.
neidlinger said:
but it is loaded down with bloatware that not everyone wants to use.
And going from stock MySense ROM to a AOSP ROM, there is a huge speed difference. Quadrant Score might not show it, but it's there.
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leo221 said:
when you buy a HP or DELL, there are loads of crapwares pre-installed. if you want a clean fast computer, get the win dvd out repartition and do a fresh install. in the smartphone world, phone manufactures tries very hard to not let you do that. the stock mytouch 4g rom from tmobile usa is over 250mb. the cm7 rom is only 80mb but does much more and faster. it's a no brainer.
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Click to collapse
leo221 said:
why do people argue back and forth just for fun or what? you use whatever roms you like. nobody is forcing nobody to use this or that rom. just live your lives your way.
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Click to collapse
...this baffles me. I just stated what I thought, and if you notice did so with far less of an endorsement than you. Not really sure why you decided to call me out.
brianphanz0r said:
I'm aware there is bloatware that many people don't want to use. I am also aware that rooting and flashing roms makes your phone faster. That doesn't mean the stock rom is bad or slow.
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[When it comes to Quadrant Scores]
I never implied that the Stock MySense is bad and/or slow, i just stated that it's chuck full o' bloatware. for a "stock" phone the MT4G is one of the fastest phones to date. And yes i am aware that that bloatware doesn't tamper with performance, other than chewing up memory that other apps could be using.
underlining i can get into my phone and dial numbers quicker via AOSP, i can get into the calendar and do what i need to w/o all of the added "features" that HTC seems to feel ones need. The Speed of a OS isn't only measured by a number that Quadrant spits out. It's also measured by how quickly one can access the stuff on the phone.
neidlinger said:
underlining i can get into my phone and dial numbers quicker via AOSP, i can get into the calendar and do what i need to w/o all of the added "features" that HTC seems to feel ones need. The Speed of a OS isn't only measured by a number that Quadrant spits out. It's also measured by how quickly one can access the stuff on the phone.
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agreed. it just so happens that I like the added features. I'm one of the few on these forums, but that's why I keep trying out new ROMs, because every ROM brings something different to the table and it's fun to experiment.
Well i was trying to stay on subject by answering the author of this thread and then adding my own 2 cents. I never argued that custom roms are faster or slower than the stock rom. i'm just saying stock rom isn't slow, as much as the author of this thread seems to think.
neidlinger said:
[When it comes to Quadrant Scores]
I never implied that the Stock MySense is bad and/or slow, i just stated that it's chuck full o' bloatware. for a "stock" phone the MT4G is one of the fastest phones to date. And yes i am aware that that bloatware doesn't tamper with performance, other than chewing up memory that other apps could be using.
underlining i can get into my phone and dial numbers quicker via AOSP, i can get into the calendar and do what i need to w/o all of the added "features" that HTC seems to feel ones need. The Speed of a OS isn't only measured by a number that Quadrant spits out. It's also measured by how quickly one can access the stuff on the phone.
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Click to collapse
It depends on what you deem as better. I tried Ice Glacier and for me it wasn't better at all. Less bloatware yes, but had little bugs here and there that really annoyed me. That's the thing with the stock ROM, it has work as near perfect as possible for the masses since 95% of users will not root their devices and will not install a custom ROM. They're not interested in spending weeks installing ROM patches just to get the latest gingerbread lockscreen. Not everyone is a geek like us
might not make as big of a difference on a top of the line phone like the mt4g but it makes a big difference when used on an older phone like the G1.
plus, its not just about the speed, custom roms have better battery life because they eliminate battery draining apps and services that you dont/need and want as well as allow you to customize the hell out of your phone.
then you got apps like titanium backup that just make certain things so much easier
Related
POST A LINK TO THE FASTEST stable (everyday use) DONUT/HERO ROM
This Thread will list the ROM that is foremost STABLE.. . AND SUPER FAST.
The CURRENT CHAMPION is currently : Dwang
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Here is the reality. MOST ROMs suck in terms of speed. They are slow if you fill your agenda and contacts and add a few widgets. You switch from apps to home you wait, you switch apps wait again, reload etc. Pain in the ass.
So you get the concept, I like speed... AND I want this thread to be about stable super fast ROMS.
I am tired of every rom claiming fast, and blazing and etc.. with the sad reality that the very large majority quite frankly sucks.
Anyone who is using the phone as a real working professional realizes that HERO's suck... haven't found one yet that just eliminates waiting. I just can't deal with waiting 5 seconds when moving out of an app to home or.. into another one..It just doesnt work if I have a call ringing and all the appz bog it down so I can't answer... While some ROMs are trying to be fast.. they still suck if you move a little fast..or have a few things up. That's the reality. And while I appreciate the work of all the devs, I want one thread in here to be about bottom line. Speed & everyday stability everyday use. And I mean not fast right after you flashed it I mean still fast after weeks of use. Many Ron's just come to a creeping halt.. after a while... However a ROM has to be STABLE first (meaning no force closes even after a while) and once it delivers that, then it has to be FAST.
So far I found ONE ROM that is far and beyond above the rest... and it is the current speed champion Dwang (with haykuro spl)
Quite frankly there's nothing that can touch that one. It is stable, has a black theme, bluetooth (don't quite need it though), but is SUPER FAST... meaning no waiting.. it is the only rom, that I consider business-use worthy.. where you can fly through apps, get your stuff done.. it works, does it's thing no matter what you throw at it... leagues above the rest. In fact is is a Rom you can flash onto the Lady's phone and she's gonna love it... which is the ultimate crown for software.
Oh and I am in no way associated with Dwang.. I am just a simple guy who wants a fast and stable donut/hero. If I can get same speed as Dwang in a hero, I'd love to have a hero... anyway.. I'll keep this thread as the speed champion thread (stable). The test infrastructure is a Dream G1.. but others feel free to post your comments.
NOW if any of you guys think you have a rom that works equally well, or you think is faster... please post a link below and I'll give it a shot... I'll run it through its paces with many large calendars tons of contacts and lots of daily use and abuse. However I am not gonna look at test balloons. Test your rom first, make sure it's stable... and most importantly don't go out and throw claims around you can't backup.
So show me what you've got.... For now Dwang is the reigning Speed champion.
I have none of the "issues" you point out with Cyanogen's latest. I'm not going to bother with a link. You should be able to find it.
Edit: Agreed with tazz.
dude, no one cares about what you think of ROM's in development. There's different forums for each phone for a reason. Mods, can we get this moved to general please? This doesn't belong here. Next time, think before you decide to post things that do not belong in development. all it does is just clutter it.
I challenge you to post in the right section.
alec.baldwin has a point, there should be statistics in A part of the Dream forums for everyday usage of the ROM's, I totally agree with him, when I am at home everything is ok with any ROM, but when I am on the road and I am trying to find a location and an IM application is opened and some guy calls me.. everything hangs, even on cyanogen, once it jammed the whole nadroid, black screen, only the notification bar visible and the phone was vibrating, I had to restart it. Anyhow, what's true it's true, this thread doesn't belong here, but it must be somewhere in plain sight. I have tested so far every ROM that has appear in the last two months, and truth be told, I also find dwangs the best, I've been using it like mad, good battery life, extremely snappy, no complaints. And yes, for everyone that keeps saying that the ROM's aren't working well because wipe and format, I ALWAYS repartition my SD when installing a new ROM.
AS ALWAYS, THANKS TO ALL THE DEV's FOR THEYR HARD WORK, remember, this isn't a competition, only statistics, so people can make a good choice without testing everything out there.
When someone says they have a super speedy hero rom, it relates to other PAST HERO ROMS. You cant compare a cupcake rom or a donut rom to a Hero rom. Especially on speed. The sense UI was not meant to run on the G1 nor was it meant to be run on the MT3G. On the other hand, donut and cupcake where both meant to be run on our phones. Thats why they are usually stable, fast, and used on a daily basis while hero roms need completely different frameworks and modifications to even work on our phones. SO, my point is: Hero roms are fast compared to other hero roms being created and they are a WORK IN PROGRESS so let the work progress and stop complaining because we have like 20 devs working FOR FREE just to make people like you and me happy. So Donut will always be faster then Hero. And as of right now, Hero will always be a tad slow, have some loading screens, and lacks bluetooth.
Ok first sorry guys for posting this in the wrong section (admin please move) unless I can (but don't think I can). It took me many hours to find this Rom that delivers - every rom claiming how super fast they are does not make it easy. As newby it takes a while to get the right recovery image, get the right spl, get the hang of it, until you finally get to switchrom or a process that makes testing easier.
Having some XDA stable speed award, or something that would take away all that trial and error and reading through pages and pages of posts to find what is unstable in every rom, having a simple THREAD.. that shows Newbies... look start with XYZ rom. And you have something that is fast, and stable. Then you can go and venture from there. I bet that many get turned off after flashing a hero, or a cyanogen (I first flashed the 4.0... cyanogen and boy what a dog it was, and the hero's are even worse, I was ready to throw it out the window)... all I wanted was something fast and stable, real life worthy. It took me probably about 7 roms to finally find one that RULES.
Also right now dev development has so many dimensions everyone developing in some direction. IT would be nice.. to have a central thread.. if you want speed&stable.. do XYZ. If you want features do ABC... wouldnt it be nice to have an award devs can aspire towards, to get recognition for the work you do...
I just upgraded to a G1 from At&t Tilt. I'm new to the dream threads. I see that you guys are very competitive with your development. That is a good sign because that means that there are hard working devs here. I like
nephron said:
When someone says they have a super speedy hero rom, it relates to other PAST HERO ROMS. You cant compare a cupcake rom or a donut rom to a Hero rom. Especially on speed. ....we have like 20 devs working FOR FREE just to make people like you and me happy. So Donut will always be faster then Hero.
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Click to collapse
Yes there are 20 devs working but there should be some structure to the madness. I think there are a lot of people that look for fast and stable and simply can't find it because they are lost in so many releases all claiming fast and stable and the greatest thing since apple pie. All I suggest is a simple thread to help new users here to get a positive experience.
Imagine someone is flashing a dog onto their phone... slows it down like you wouldnt believe it after 2 weeks of use... what do you think how likely are they to come back and give it another shot (unless they're geeks and willing to work through it). Now imagine the same thing.. someone starting with a stock donut.. flashing a dwang1.11 and go like "HOLY SH#T".. I'll bet you a positive first experience will do much more for the community the users and the developers than someone with a bad experience.. (trust me I went through that).
The more users you have the more enthusiasts the better for all of us. My vote is simply to create something that gives positive experiences. Does not have to be me.. but someone who is using the devices in the real world.. with abuse and use, large calendars... contacts, just REAL LIFE, and then puts out some recommendations/awards whatever you wanna call it. Do this and you'll see user numbers grow.
YOU CAN NEVER SAY WHAT IS STABLE/FAST
BECAUSE EVERYBODYS G1 IS DIFFERENT
AND UNLESS EVERYBODY IS RICH ENOUGH TO GET EVERYTHING THE OTHER PERSON HAS..
SWAP SIZE
CLASS 6 SDCARD
32B
SPL RADIO
ETC...
THEN THIS THREAD IS USELESS
WHICH IS WHY YOU SAY CYAN IS NOT STABLE
WHILE I THINK ITS THE FASTEST STABLE DONUT ROM OUT THERE
and another thing... the writting up here ^ is not yelling just really big letters =]
i think you are completely wrong, the new sense hero 1.3r1 with the new bfs and 10mb hack have zero lag
this thread is a waste of bandwith.
reported
this has to be the most pointless thread ive ever seen. flash roms and figure out for yourself which is good or not if you dont like it go back to ota updates.
jf4888 said:
YOU CAN NEVER SAY WHAT IS STABLE/FAST
BECAUSE EVERYBODYS G1 IS DIFFERENT
AND UNLESS EVERYBODY IS RICH ENOUGH TO GET EVERYTHING THE OTHER PERSON HAS..
SWAP SIZE
CLASS 6 SDCARD
32B
SPL RADIO
ETC...
THEN THIS THREAD IS USELESS
WHICH IS WHY YOU SAY CYAN IS NOT STABLE
WHILE I THINK ITS THE FASTEST STABLE DONUT ROM OUT THERE
and another thing... the writting up here ^ is not yelling just really big letters =]
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Everything you jus said was pure stupid! The only thing you really got to pay for is a class 6 card and thats less than 15 bucks online! If you dont got 15 bucks get a job! Cyan right now is not stable im getting so much fc's on his rom & new people find bugs all day on it. Dwang's is the meanest leanest fastest stable donut rom out there! Have you ever tried it?
I think part of the fun is figuring out what works best for your needs. Some people like flash and glits, running tons of widgets, others are very minimal. But he is right. Every Rom on this site "claims to be the fastest".
Takenover83 said:
I think part of the fun is figuring out what works best for your needs. Some people like flash and glits, running tons of widgets, others are very minimal. But he is right. Every Rom on this site "claims to be the fastest".
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No, cyanogen claims his will keep you legal for less. nothing about being the fastest there! xD
Enomther's ROMs are very fast and stable...I flash most the ROMs i find but always go back to his. You are posting in the dev section so most the people here are going to say try them all...when most the users don't want to flash all the time.
I would suggest starting a thread in Dream or Dream Q&A, make a poll, do some benchmarks...Have users pay more attention to the annoyances in their ROMs and post them. All of the stuff you are asking about should be run by the community, not XDA! I agree being a noob and coming to this site can be overwhelming, but at the same time it kills off some of the people that shouldn't be modding their phones anyway.
Maybe make a few threads...one showing the fastest most stable ROM, one for the ROM with the most options, one that is the creeper...maybe build that all into one post and you maintain the first few posts...Hell Google Wave invites are floating around, I am making a wave about tips and tricks on the G1 you could try to do something similar.
damnitput
Thansk for mentioning Enomther's rom looks though he's not on Donut yet.. but as soon as it happens I'll give it a shot.
phamous
Legal for less.. well quite frankly the extra dance about the google stuff is just a hazzle. I see Google's point that when you go and waive the mods stuff around on their market (through the updater) that they'd get upset. But the result now is rather absurd..to backup your own google appz and install them afterwards...(I think that's what the status is). The problem I had with Cyanogen is that everyone was hyping up the 4.0.. something (the last one with the google appz) I installed it on my, my wife and my dad's phone.. and it ended up being a really frustrating experience (they're all heavy users). Now the most current version might have things fixed but I am still scared from that experience.
TakenOver83
yeah I have created a few little benchmarks.. switching from this to that, just certain tasks.. in the future I'll just compare Roms by looking at how much time it takes. Then teh ones that are promising will get immersed into a real life test. It would be awesome to have a benchmark program....
jf4888 and Mgorman
Quite frankly just try Dwang's rom.. . that will make you shut up.
jad011
About sense hero 1.3r1 with the new bfs and 10mb hack that should have zero lag. Well I got exactly that one installed... and I personally thought it sucks. Go to browser.. hit the home button. Or other applications.. you'll get seconds of load times. The other thing that sucked is the widgets.. f.e. weather.. as great as it looks.. I have noticed that I am in an app.. go back to home screen.. go to weather widget and it is reloading... even though before I went into the app it had the data loaded. And generally moving through the rom from apps, to settings, to home, to email to messaging to home... I have found one just waits for 3-5 seconds at a time. And it might be that's just normal for HERO, but with Dwang I don't get that. Sure its a donut.. but if you are a real user, you will care a lot more about speed than you do about a weather animation, or a few more polished things... if it would be a major step in functionality.. ok maybe.. but its not. Its a little bit better.. but a lot slower. If you want a more detailed analysis let me know and i'll boot the hero up again and do some measurments to drive the point home.
alec.baldwin said:
TakenOver83
yeah I have created a few little benchmarks.. switching from this to that, just certain tasks.. in the future I'll just compare Roms by looking at how much time it takes. Then teh ones that are promising will get immersed into a real life test. It would be awesome to have a benchmark program....
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Click to collapse
You want a true benchmark test, download Linpack for Android (it's available in most droid markets I believe). It isn't perfect, and it doesn't give a ton of stats, but it does do a pretty legit speed test and you can even save the results to compare against other roms/phones.
I agree with you on the "having a thread that highlights the "fastest", "most bells & whistle", etc"... even if just to tell noobs "start here"... I'm running CM 4.2.3.1 (and yes, it has issues... I've had random reboots, FC's, and plenty of lag) but I've been sticking with CM as it's just easier than flashing a new rom every few days because things start going down hill. Having a thread to go to that would give at least a general idea of how different roms work in the real world (without having to spend my entire saturday reading through thousands of posts, most of which provide no info at all) would be great. But then I'm guessing said thread would fill with useless posts, or at least way too many posts) fairly quickly.
That being said, your better bet is to have a website that is either devoted to (or at least has a section devoted to) this concept. You may have a better chance pitching the idea to the folks at Phandroid.com or AndroidAndMe.com. I'm not saying they'll be 100% behind you, I don't really know any of them, so I can't really say what their interest level would be... but at least on a site like that you can control the "reviews/awards" without getting a billion useless posts making it hard to find the useful info. Just a thought.
yup yup yippee, I used a certain ROM that claimed to be fast and stable and it was just the opposite and also had a bad memory leak. I was running under 20 megs in about 8 hours. there should be an end user grading system, it dosent necessary have to be on xda, but a link somewhere in a sticky in the Dev forum. it could have things like speed, stable, memory, battery, looks, radio, overall quality, etc. on a one to ten scale, maybe a short comment box under 200 words then an overall score that's averaged among the reviews. this will definitely help noobs and devs know what's going on without trying to read over 400+ pages of compliments/complaints and how do I flash this posts.
As much as yall hate the "whats the best ROM" posts, i do find them helpful as i hate wiping & flashing several ROMs, I just want a good one and stick with it. This is just a suggestion, although I think its a good one. Id do it myself if I knew how to make web pages .
oops I just realized muzek pretty much made the same point I did.
So I may jump ship from the N1 to the Vibrant. On the N1, in less than ten minutes I can run a nandroid backup, flash a new kernel, new radio and a new rom. In another 3-4 minutes, I can switch back. I've literally switched kernels >3 times/day before. How much different will things be on the Vibrant? Is it harder to do these things? Is there as much risk?
Thanks
right now no one knows, there is no custom kernels, custom recovery, custom roms, etc
There are custom roms and you can easily root the device...but it will obviously take some time to reach N1's customization...
I've had my G1(I know, not the N1) since day 1, and I've been flashing roms since day one. The only reason I flashed roms was because I felt the G1 was lacking in a lot of things. Now that I have the Vibrant, I feel like there's no need to flash a different rom. It's already pretty fast, and I actually like the touchwiz UI. The UI doesnt completely take over the Android interface, it's more like adding extra little features.
ultra spikey said:
I've had my G1(I know, not the N1) since day 1, and I've been flashing roms since day one. The only reason I flashed roms was because I felt the G1 was lacking in a lot of things. Now that I have the Vibrant, I feel like there's no need to flash a different rom. It's already pretty fast, and I actually like the touchwiz UI. The UI doesnt completely take over the Android interface, it's more like adding extra little features.
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Click to collapse
Exactly, plus the Black/Blue color scheme is far better looking to me over stock Android. TouchWiz is not like Sense or previous generations of the skin and that's a good thing.
Ill second that. I am really enjoying my touch wiz interface and I didn't think I would. That being said I miss my app drawer that slid up from the bottom.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
I don't know much about flashing to different ROMs yet, but I can give you an overview of the TouchWiz experience from my viewpoint.
Coming from an iPhone, I really like TouchWiz 3.0. And believe me when I tell you: that was their goal with the UI. It screams Apple, in layout and function. But of course, it ultimately feels a bit like an imitation in some areas. I feel like they rushed TouchWiz 3.0 out of the door.
The Clocks and Alarms app is much better than the iPhone's, which is something I was not at all expecting. It's really quite nice. The calendar app is about on par, in terms of layout. The upper hand is that this syncs OTA with Google's cloud services. The music player is very 'iPod-like', but is ultimately a rush job (embedded album art does not work very often and so forth).
All things considered, it's a really nice UI for Android.
That said, there are some really basic functions which did not make the transition from stock Android. For example: you cannot fully edit contacts in the 'Contacts' app. You cannot delete them, you cannot add custom ringtones. Coming from the iPhone, where I had meticulously completed the profiles of every contact with an obscene amount of info and custom ringtones, this is annoying.
There are a few 'little things' like that, which really matter to me. And this has kind of soured the experience for me, making me second-guess my decision. To be honest, I'm still sort of on the fence over this of the N1 as my iPhone replacement.
The grey area for me is in Android 3.0's release. Google has stated that they're going to overhaul the UI. The idea is that they want to make it more user-friendly, to make the use of custom skins less prevalent. Well, I'm all for this. Trouble is: will these handset manufacturers adopt it, considering their vested interests in their custom experiences?
Samsung's UI is definitely my favorite out of Sense, MotoBlur and the lot. But I'd be lying if I said that I didn't wish for a Nexus One for the security of owning the only unlocked stock device.
Hope that helps...
Give it some time and stock Android will be on the Vibrant. Thats the great thing about Android and Xda.
Yeah, I really love the idea of xda and the amount of support that all of these devices receive from the community. Of course, the trouble is: if you root for a custom rom - even if it's stock Android - the N1 is the only solution for getting OTA updates regularly. With stock Android on the Galaxy S, you're going to have to re-flash every time the ROM is updated. Not the end of the world, but definitely irritating.
Running a JB/Unlocked iPhone, I'm used to dealing with work-arounds, and waiting for hacks. That's the price I paid for using a non-carrier phone. I couldn't accept the automatic updates from Apple, and this became a mild annoyance (reinstalling everything and so forth). But when you decide to 'play nice' and own a carrier-specific phone, you kind of want the experience of timely OTA, non-hacking-related updates that simply update your device, without first wiping it clean.
Know what I mean?
I'm still not sure if I'm going to keep my Galaxy S, or buy an N1 while there's still time (the 'rumors'? of the N1's touchscreen issues are really all that held me back). But either way, I hope that all devices have some way to experience the latest and greatest from Google.
The touchscreen is bad on that phone especially when it comes to multitouch. I'm sure you've already seen the videos comparing the two touchpads and the Vibrant's touchscreen is SO accurate... multitouch included.
Jon C said:
Yeah, I really love the idea of xda and the amount of support that all of these devices receive from the community. Of course, the trouble is: if you root for a custom rom - even if it's stock Android - the N1 is the only solution for getting OTA updates regularly. With stock Android on the Galaxy S, you're going to have to re-flash every time the ROM is updated. Not the end of the world, but definitely irritating.
Running a JB/Unlocked iPhone, I'm used to dealing with work-arounds, and waiting for hacks. That's the price I paid for using a non-carrier phone. I couldn't accept the automatic updates from Apple, and this became a mild annoyance (reinstalling everything and so forth). But when you decide to 'play nice' and own a carrier-specific phone, you kind of want the experience of timely OTA, non-hacking-related updates that simply update your device, without first wiping it clean.
Know what I mean?
I'm still not sure if I'm going to keep my Galaxy S, or buy an N1 while there's still time (the 'rumors'? of the N1's touchscreen issues are really all that held me back). But either way, I hope that all devices have some way to experience the latest and greatest from Google.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
While its a little early to be 100% yet but Android hacking is a lot different than iphone hacking. The iphone is a closed system and you have to wait till its broken open to update. Android is already open when its released. As for OTAs if Cyanogen supports the Vibrant then there is an app to download and install new updates. Typically if you stay with the same developer, like Cyanogen, then you don't have to wipe when there are updates.
After froyo 2.2 all my touch screen problems was gone.
Sent from my Nexus One using XDA App
So untrue after froyo 2.2 those problems was fix the nexus one is a awsome phone.and I believe the same for the vibrant.
Sent from my Nexus One using XDA App
Can you do me the world's biggest favor?
Would you make some YouTube videos, showing the multitouch tests of your N1? I so, so, so, would love to own one, but I have zero tolerance for faulty hardware. I've been researching this stuff since the N1 launch, and it's the only thing holding me back from purchasing that device.
'Multitouch Vis Test' is probably the easiest way, but if you can think of others to test with, that would be great.
Jon C said:
The music player is very 'iPod-like', but is ultimately a rush job (embedded album art does not work very often and so forth).
.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I haven't used my iPod Nano 4th Gen in some time, I find that the N1 is handling my music needs just fine. But if I had a nickel for every time album art was hosed on my iPod Nano I would not have a mortgage anymore...
hah2110 said:
So I may jump ship from the N1 to the Vibrant. On the N1, in less than ten minutes I can run a nandroid backup, flash a new kernel, new radio and a new rom. In another 3-4 minutes, I can switch back. I've literally switched kernels >3 times/day before. How much different will things be on the Vibrant? Is it harder to do these things? Is there as much risk?
Thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
First you must know that the process is completely different. For right now most roms are installed through the Odin process. This process completely wipes all of the information on the phone (including apps and settings) and then installs the new rom. So you will have to backup your apps and settings every time you change roms (Titanium backup would work but it's not always fool proof). Second all roms are going to be based off of Samsung code. That means no Sense roms, no stock roms (well you can get the stock launcher but your dialer and notification bar will always be touchwized), and no froyo until Samsung releases there own version. This has been true so far with all previous Samsung phones and looking at the development with the I9000 it seems to hold true for the Galaxy S. All this does put you at less risk of bricking your phone but it does mean you also have less chance of serious customization. Also with limited source code for the I9000 (there are some drivers that are not source code but actually compiled) it's very difficult to just plop roms on from other sources.
psychoace said:
First you must know that the process is completely different. For right now most roms are installed through the Odin process. This process completely wipes all of the information on the phone (including apps and settings) and then installs the new rom. So you will have to backup your apps and settings every time you change roms (Titanium backup would work but it's not always fool proof). Second all roms are going to be based off of Samsung code. That means no Sense roms, no stock roms (well you can get the stock launcher but your dialer and notification bar will always be touchwized), and no froyo until Samsung releases there own version. This has been true so far with all previous Samsung phones and looking at the development with the I9000 it seems to hold true for the Galaxy S. All this does put you at less risk of bricking your phone but it does mean you also have less chance of serious customization. Also with limited source code for the I9000 (there are some drivers that are not source code but actually compiled) it's very difficult to just plop roms on from other sources.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why can't CM do his thing?
cm is trying to port cyanogen to the vibrant. in fact ive read that the vibrant and the droid x are his 2 top priorities so it will come soon enough. and once he gets it done we will probibly see a bunch of roms based of cyanogen
blazewit said:
cm is trying to port cyanogen to the vibrant. in fact ive read that the vibrant and the droid x are his 2 top priorities so it will come soon enough. and once he gets it done we will probibly see a bunch of roms based of cyanogen
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have yet to see any information confirming any of that. First on his twitter he only seems to be working on the Evo right now. Second I doubt he would work on the Droid x until it's rooted (which most likely will be never). Last I have seen only a small pattern of talk about someone in conversation with Cyanogen about allowing a Galaxy branch of the CM code for use with the Galaxy S. Problem is this doesn't solve the issue of not having source code for a few drivers. This does not even attack the issue of getting the rom onto the phone. So don't hold your breath for any of that.
yea your right it was just one site claiming that cm is working on the vibrant,from what i can tell gothdroid and a bunch of other g1/dream devs are working right now for custom recovery and porting cm6 and froyo asop
For those who have tried, is the CM7 alpha worth replacing the stock Glacier ROM? What are the benefits over the current stock HTC Sense ROM? What's missing or not quite there?
Wrong Section, good question though
Sent from my HTC Glacier using XDA App
Cm7 nightlies - no longer CM7 alpha
It's true that this is probably the wrong section and I'm a noob too but before they bring in the new rules about minimum postings in the developer section, I'll throw in my ten cents.
Background:
US T-Mobile version of Mytouch4G and had no reason to be unhappy with the stock Rom but just love to scratch an itch and see what happens.
In the pursuit of seeing what happens I successfully rooted the phone to the point of permanent S=off (but not complete unlock as I have no need for that yet)
and over the course of the last few weeks systematically installed and tested three of the froyo builds/ports available on this forum.
Each have their strengths and weakness which are clearly listed so I wont catalogue the details I'll just say the following:
It's a lotta lotta fun! there was a geek in me waiting to get out and I finally see what the true potential is with this platform (android) - It's probably unlimited.
Aside from the philosophical point of wanting to have the freedom to do whatever with and put whatever you want on the device, that rooting facilitates (I’m a veteran of two generation of iphones), there is also that practical point that rooting does unlock the full potential of the device available right now which includes a host of apps already on the market only for rooted devices.
I don’t want to go into all those possibilities here because they are covered in detail in any google search but let’s just say that once you’re on the other side of the proverbial fence, the grass really is greener.
I know I’m being vague at this point, but let me continue a little longer.
Having also owned a number of windows based htc devices through 2005-2008 I’m no stranger to htc sense and some of the useful little gadgets that they seem to have evolved to a fairly decent level in android and I’ll say this:
Take away the surface veneer which is not as bad in the MT4G as in some others (bloatware) and you find that the meat and potatoes of the platform/operating system is all android.
And it runs MUCH better without the crap. – forget about overclocking (which helps and is fun) loose the veneer and the device flies.
And what you lose in the process – a couple of apps – you replace immediately with comparable ones for free down at the market.
So – phone runs better, can do more, has a host of better looking ui’s and themes that all the talented developers on this forum are constantly pushing out – then what about the risks?
I haven’t had a single hitch – not one.
I’m as impulsive as the next guy but I just took it steady with the information overload – carefully rooted the phone and from there, flashing one rom after another has become no more complicated than booting into recovery – case closed.
It’s become second nature.
And I’ve had to do a double take once or twice when something didn’t play out exactly as described but I’ve discovered that I had overlooked a detail here and there and it’s an easy fix.
Point being that there are constant warnings and disclaimers for obvious reasons, but my device at least has turned out to be very hardy – no scares here.
So finally, I’ve been eyeing developments in the gingerbread camp like everyone else and I’ve been wary of the alpha builds because my zero level of expertise keeps me from playing in that league and I see early this morning that an official CM7 release is out for my model the glacier.
At first I run I into problems flashing Clockworkmod to 3.0 and even try to flash the rom and boot from 2.5 with the predictable conclusion of a stuck boot loop all the while not really knowing what to expect from this ginger hype and whether it’s really worth the trouble of leaving my now very stable cooked froyo rom.
Someone then creates the thread a few lines up describing how to simply use rom manager to install the update for CWM 3.0 and at 2am I’m on my way.
I flash the rom and install the additional google apps and what do I find?
GINGERBREAD IS **** HOT!
Nuff said.
I won’t be overclocking it as a rule but I get 2805 on quadrant – previous high being in the 2500’s (each chip is actually different so I’ve heard that everyones score will vary)
The device has no lags, splutters, and runs quite literally incredibly.
and the look and feel of gingerbread? – I’ll add to what I said earlier – it’s amazing – it’s a moving graphical, visual feast.
It will seriously rain on apple’s parade when this thing hits the main stream and I think quite honestly that it’s the greatest mobile device operating system ever created.
I know I’m gushing but it really is that good and considerably more impressive than froyo while having the same core navigation and other functionality.
I won’t be going back.
I won’t endorse taking risks with your device but I’ll say it’s worth taking a look.
A few afterthoughts for those asking the questions:
There is a brand new version of the market packaged with the 20110115 version of the larger gapps file floating around on this forum – it also rocks!
Although most apps available on the market have not yet been updated for gb 2.3, they all work so far on my machine with one or two unimportant exeptions.
I’ve replaced all sense functionality with free apps off the market – no loss there.
The device runs smoothly and all functionality is tested and working in the latest release - great job guys doing the work here.
Long and the short of it being …it’s all good.
hope that helps.
Definitely worth a flash to try yourself. I mean it's CyanogenMod so how could it not be good?
Sent from my HTC Glacier using Tapatalk
matkam said:
For those who have tried, is the CM7 alpha worth replacing the stock Glacier ROM? What are the benefits over the current stock HTC Sense ROM? What's missing or not quite there?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You would be very surprised at how extremely stable these roms are. I've been running them for a few weeks now and they're definitely stable enough to be your daily driver.
The main thing to consider is that Sense is a highly customized ROM while CyanogenMod is based on Pure Google with some additional configurations available.
Try it out, it's pretty easy to go back if you don't like it. For a while there I was nandroiding back and forth between Sense and CM6 about twice a week, lol.
CM7 some after thoughts
Continuing from my earlier post, I thought I would head off a few questions about observable differences in gingerbread - well the CM7 incarnation:
Android market loads and populates faster.
The wireless radio picks up signals/networks faster and connects gracefully and quickly.
All aspects of the functionality of the whole system and each individual app seems to be smoother and more efficient.
Youtube no longer has that annoying glitch coming out of landscape.
My new 16bg class 6 mini sdhc card finally works and no longer gives me the blank card or damaged card bull crap every time I unmount or remount from usb mode – didn’t expect that one and had resigned myself to going back to the stock 8gb card it shipped with.
The app drawer pops out at you in what seems like 3d while leaving the background wallpaper intact. – so the app drawer just floats while you scroll through it.
Every aspect of the device and systems are customizable – I mean everything – probably in part due to the efforts of the CM7 team.
The stock gingerbread phone dialer app is changed for the better and is obviously one of many enhancements including the ability to program your sip (voip) settings straight into the phone doing away with third party apps altogether to make or receive calls (if you’re into voip)
You’ll have to dig around to find the .apk for the stock car/navigation mode app and I solved that riddle by downloading the free android app(car home) from the market and also installing a third party app (car mode control) which is used to launch it – I’ve been lazy and haven’t investigated yet whether it’s actually necessary to have the go between, but it works.
and swype, if you want it, can be downloaded direct from the guys that developed it at the beta.swype page (wasn't allowed to post the link) - by simply registering to test the latest beta, which is better than in the stock MT4G rom.
Someone report the first post to have this moved.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
Whosdaman said:
Someone report the first post to have this moved.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Didn't realize it had to be reported. I always assumed that because you're a mod you can do whatever the hell you want.
Well in your case just pick current RC fork from repository and use it normally you don't have to wait for the SR fork. Unless you are dev I don't see why you would want to flash it every night unless you understand basic and even in that case weekly might be fine. I been there done that as flashing new rom everyday as it came down the pipe I tried few CM7A few times let the dev do more work as ill make that my rom when SR is out, ATM have IGv1.1.6 as I flashed it this afternoon.
matkam said:
For those who have tried, is the CM7 alpha worth replacing the stock Glacier ROM? What are the benefits over the current stock HTC Sense ROM? What's missing or not quite there?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you thought your phone was fast out of the box, this is faster. If you thought it was a bit laggy (like me), it's like getting a brand new phone.
Also, having better experiences with CM7 GB on MT4G than I ever did on my Nexus S. This is saying a lot.
ZeroSX said:
Also, having better experiences with CM7 GB on MT4G than I ever did on my Nexus S. This is saying a lot.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Same for me. Such a smoother experience all around.
Sent from my HTC Glacier using Tapatalk
I just flashed & I must say it is a much smoother expericence. I love it & its not even a stable build.
matkam said:
For those who have tried, is the CM7 alpha worth replacing the stock Glacier ROM? What are the benefits over the current stock HTC Sense ROM? What's missing or not quite there?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Is this your first Android phone? Have you ever played with a Pure Google Experience Android phone? If you're nervous about the CM7 builds, try CM6. Easier to flash since you don't need to manually flash the recovery and it will give you a feel for CyanogenMod and the Pure Android feel.
Think of the G2, that comes with plain Android right out of the box. Go to a T-mobile store and poke around with it to see if you like it.
I simply cannot stand the HTC Sense stuff... Personal preference.
I had CM6.1 for a couple weeks and I am VERY happy with it. I am waiting another week or so to start using the CM7 builds just because I have been too busy with other stuff.
neuralboy said:
It's true that this is probably the wrong section and I'm a noob too but before they bring in the new rules about minimum postings in the developer section, I'll throw in my ten cents.
Background:
US T-Mobile version of Mytouch4G and had no reason to be unhappy with the stock Rom but just love to scratch an itch and see what happens.
In the pursuit of seeing what happens I successfully rooted the phone to the point of permanent S=off (but not complete unlock as I have no need for that yet)
and over the course of the last few weeks systematically installed and tested three of the froyo builds/ports available on this forum.
Each have their strengths and weakness which are clearly listed so I wont catalogue the details I'll just say the following:
It's a lotta lotta fun! there was a geek in me waiting to get out and I finally see what the true potential is with this platform (android) - It's probably unlimited.
Aside from the philosophical point of wanting to have the freedom to do whatever with and put whatever you want on the device, that rooting facilitates (I’m a veteran of two generation of iphones), there is also that practical point that rooting does unlock the full potential of the device available right now which includes a host of apps already on the market only for rooted devices.
I don’t want to go into all those possibilities here because they are covered in detail in any google search but let’s just say that once you’re on the other side of the proverbial fence, the grass really is greener.
I know I’m being vague at this point, but let me continue a little longer.
Having also owned a number of windows based htc devices through 2005-2008 I’m no stranger to htc sense and some of the useful little gadgets that they seem to have evolved to a fairly decent level in android and I’ll say this:
Take away the surface veneer which is not as bad in the MT4G as in some others (bloatware) and you find that the meat and potatoes of the platform/operating system is all android.
And it runs MUCH better without the crap. – forget about overclocking (which helps and is fun) loose the veneer and the device flies.
And what you lose in the process – a couple of apps – you replace immediately with comparable ones for free down at the market.
So – phone runs better, can do more, has a host of better looking ui’s and themes that all the talented developers on this forum are constantly pushing out – then what about the risks?
I haven’t had a single hitch – not one.
I’m as impulsive as the next guy but I just took it steady with the information overload – carefully rooted the phone and from there, flashing one rom after another has become no more complicated than booting into recovery – case closed.
It’s become second nature.
And I’ve had to do a double take once or twice when something didn’t play out exactly as described but I’ve discovered that I had overlooked a detail here and there and it’s an easy fix.
Point being that there are constant warnings and disclaimers for obvious reasons, but my device at least has turned out to be very hardy – no scares here.
So finally, I’ve been eyeing developments in the gingerbread camp like everyone else and I’ve been wary of the alpha builds because my zero level of expertise keeps me from playing in that league and I see early this morning that an official CM7 release is out for my model the glacier.
At first I run I into problems flashing Clockworkmod to 3.0 and even try to flash the rom and boot from 2.5 with the predictable conclusion of a stuck boot loop all the while not really knowing what to expect from this ginger hype and whether it’s really worth the trouble of leaving my now very stable cooked froyo rom.
Someone then creates the thread a few lines up describing how to simply use rom manager to install the update for CWM 3.0 and at 2am I’m on my way.
I flash the rom and install the additional google apps and what do I find?
GINGERBREAD IS **** HOT!
Nuff said.
I won’t be overclocking it as a rule but I get 2805 on quadrant – previous high being in the 2500’s (each chip is actually different so I’ve heard that everyones score will vary)
The device has no lags, splutters, and runs quite literally incredibly.
and the look and feel of gingerbread? – I’ll add to what I said earlier – it’s amazing – it’s a moving graphical, visual feast.
It will seriously rain on apple’s parade when this thing hits the main stream and I think quite honestly that it’s the greatest mobile device operating system ever created.
I know I’m gushing but it really is that good and considerably more impressive than froyo while having the same core navigation and other functionality.
I won’t be going back.
I won’t endorse taking risks with your device but I’ll say it’s worth taking a look.
A few afterthoughts for those asking the questions:
There is a brand new version of the market packaged with the 20110115 version of the larger gapps file floating around on this forum – it also rocks!
Although most apps available on the market have not yet been updated for gb 2.3, they all work so far on my machine with one or two unimportant exeptions.
I’ve replaced all sense functionality with free apps off the market – no loss there.
The device runs smoothly and all functionality is tested and working in the latest release - great job guys doing the work here.
Long and the short of it being …it’s all good.
hope that helps.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Where did you see a link for an official CM7 release for this phone?!?!
Q.Entity said:
I simply cannot stand the HTC Sense stuff... Personal preference.
I had CM6.1 for a couple weeks and I am VERY happy with it. I am waiting another week or so to start using the CM7 builds just because I have been too busy with other stuff.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You know that's how I felt when I bought the phone. I kept thinking about returning it for a G2 just to get plain Android. Ironically, by the time I finally rooted my phone and flashed CM6, Sense had grown on me to the point that I kept nandroiding back and using it by choice. Ha!
Now I've been on cm7 for a few days and I'm pretty happy with it.
CM7 official nightlies
I can't post a link out but the link to the CM7 builds is usually towards the top of the mytouch 4G Android Developement forum page.
It's constantly being updated and it looks like the latest build takes care of a number of little issues including swype, google car home and maybe the apps pack too
To those voting not to flash, have you tried CM7? What's keeping you from being happy with it?
I just flashed it myself and am pretty happy with it. The experience is much more consistent than the stock Sense ROM, gingerbread is really fast/smooth, and CM7 adds a lot of options for customization. Wifi isn't working though.
matkam said:
To those voting not to flash, have you tried CM7? What's keeping you from being happy with it?
I just flashed it myself and am pretty happy with it. The experience is much more consistent than the stock Sense ROM, gingerbread is really fast/smooth, and CM7 adds a lot of options for customization. Wifi isn't working though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Reboot for wifi to work.
BTW, CM7 is slick as an iced glacier.
Sent from my HTC Glacier using XDA App
neuralboy said:
GINGERBREAD IS **** HOT!
Nuff said.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This has got to be the biggest fanboism i've every heard on any forum. Gingerbread is not that different from FroYo. It looks the same it feels. it acts the same.
To the OP If you want to flash the most current baked variant of Android then by all means flash away. If not FroYo will serve your needs just fine.
Other than these two:
Overclocking
Loading modded roms
I mean let's all be honest, even if you undervolt and remain stable, any overclocking that will allow noticable performance, will have just as much noticable effect on the battery. And these are mobile devices. Battery should be considered top priority, not speed.
And what's the deal with wanting to load all these custom roms? Are they significantly better than stock, Adeo, or gingerblur? What do we need to load a fully custom rom for? Are they lightning fast and extend battery life by 100%? I guess I just don't get it. Deodexing and visual mods can be done without an unlocked bootloader.
Basically what im trying to say is. What is everyone *****ing about?
Sent from my Atrix using XDA App
As far as I know, there is no way to unlock the Atrix's bootloader. It is encrypted. You may check the xda's frontpage, there is news several weeks ago regards to the Moto's bootloader.
mccoy007 said:
As far as I know, there is no way to unlock the Atrix's bootloader. It is encrypted. You may check the xda's frontpage, there is news several weeks ago regards to the Moto's bootloader.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think you missed the purpose of the thread. He is not asking HOW to do it, only WHY you would need to, other then overclocking or loading ROMs.
Honestly, it does make a big difference. Battery life can be very substantially increased in many of these roms. They both over and under clock processors to maximize the life. It's possible to get gingerbread on the inspire right now through custom roms because the boot loader isnt locked. It's possible to completely remove sense, whereas we have to live with motoblur. There really are a lot of reasons. Honestly, look at what Xda is all about, it's android development. Just take a look at the atrix dev forum vs the inspire one. Phones with a strong development community tend to live far longer because they can upgrade the os long after the company stops trying. The original g1 was only officially upgraded to 1.6 (I believe) but Xda has a few 2.2 roms that actually run pretty solid.
Tl:dr the list goes on and on of reasons that you want an accessible boot loader.
Ability to load a custom recovery menu. Nandroid.
it's simple dude. people do it because they can.
Besides the fact you would get work and support from the awesome devs here another good reason would be most phones have their shortcomings.Most of the time this can be fixed in the software.The awesome devs here are able to in most cases get it sorted out within a week or 2 whereas if the phone manufacturer or carrier is gonna do something about it your gonna wait 6 months to get an update. A prime example of this was the rediculously low external and earpiece speaker volume on the inspire.On max volume it was just too low. Now the rom chefs can cook up custom roms with 20% volume increase.
The 2 reasons you want to exclude are the main points. It's like saying "other than drowning; what's the point of learning to swim".
i want android 2.3.3 , can i ? no! i have to wait to an official update from motorola.. why ?!
i want htc sence in motorola , can i ? no !
we love to play and change things.. uman nature
seh6183 said:
Other than these two:
Overclocking
Loading modded roms
I mean let's all be honest, even if you undervolt and remain stable, any overclocking that will allow noticable performance, will have just as much noticable effect on the battery. And these are mobile devices. Battery should be considered top priority, not speed.
And what's the deal with wanting to load all these custom roms? Are they significantly better than stock, Adeo, or gingerblur? What do we need to load a fully custom rom for? Are they lightning fast and extend battery life by 100%? I guess I just don't get it. Deodexing and visual mods can be done without an unlocked bootloader.
Basically what im trying to say is. What is everyone *****ing about?
Sent from my Atrix using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your first question says "ignoring custom ROMs..." and your second question says "What about custom Roms..." so I'll address the second question.
ROMs. Gingerbread. AOSP. Stock Android. Kernels.
Another consideration in favor of ROMs is the continuation of support by the dev community even after the manufacturer has EOL'ed a product. You still see the Dream (G1) getting roms with new features even though the phone has been effectively dead for a while now.
It is always in the phone manufacturer's and the carrier's best interests to kill off support to get you to buy the newest, latest device.
daveop said:
Just take a look at the atrix dev forum vs the inspire one. Phones with a strong development community tend to live far longer because they can upgrade the os long after the company stops trying.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I love my atrix.. but I visited the Inspire 4G dev forums... and.. yeah I got a little bit jealous. lol
I hope the few devs we have don't end up leaving and can crack this bootloader!!!!
s1mpd1ddy said:
I love my atrix.. but I visited the Inspire 4G dev forums... and.. yeah I got a little bit jealous. lol
I hope the few devs we have don't end up leaving and can crack this bootloader!!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I know what you mean. That's one thing I like/liked about my FUZE: there was a pretty active dev community, at least until the HD2 came out.
I'm planning on getting an Atrix on Monday and this is making me think about getting an Inspire instead. I guess I'll get the Atrix and if it blows I can take it back, get an inspire, and pocket $100.
Wow is this seriously a question?
Nandroid backups, AOSP ROMs like Cyanogen where you get updates every NIGHT if you wish from the source Android build so it'll always be the latest version - no waiting for Motocrap. Battery life is usually way better, TONS of tweaks (being able to tweak my color balance of the screen, gamma levels, haptic feedback behavior, autobrightness levels and thresholds, lockscreen and messaging gestures, etc). That's all before even mentioning performance increases like overclocking, deodexing for themes, ext4 modifications for faster I/O. There's just way too many things to list but if you've never experienced a phone that has custom ROMs (especially Cyanogen) then I can see why you don't miss anything, but if you have, like me, you'll probably never want to settle for an Android phone that doesn't allow custom ROMs.
custom roms is reason enough...like dinan said if you ever used them you would understand. pretty much all the problems that people are having with the atrix could be solved if our devs had access to the bootloader.
I do see the importance of having continued support after moto leaves the phone behind. And it would be nice to have a dev make a rom to fix the coloring on the Atrix screen. Also I didn't realize that updates to custom roms come so often and that they had that much support.
I am starting to see now.
Sent from my Atrix using XDA App
mccoy007 said:
As far as I know, there is no way to unlock the Atrix's bootloader. It is encrypted. You may check the xda's frontpage, there is news several weeks ago regards to the Moto's bootloader.
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Click to collapse
Luckily, there are a few other people working on the bootloader (I hope), as it is signed, not encrypted; there is a difference.
My phone before the Atrix was the TytnII, and the only reason I was able to keep it as long as I did was because of custom ROMS. If they are able to increase the performance of this phone the way they increased the performance of my 300Mhz/128MB RAM TytnII, then I will be giddy as a school-girl.
Do I need an unlocked bootloader? No, I absolutely love my phone the way it is right now, as this is my first Android, so I don't know what else is possible.
Battery life?
I am running a test of a custom kernel for my captivate. I turned off everything and wanted to see how long it would last.
No wifi or data (no sim card installed) it ran idle for 11 days.
Custom Kernel with no wifi or data its going to last about 50 days. (based on current estimate as im still testing it)
Just an FYI, there are devices with locked bootloaders that have custom ROMs. This includes the X10, which has a Gingerbread ROM. The issue is getting a newer Android build to work with a stock kernel. Unlocking the bootloader is key to building custom kernels but there are methods for getting custom ROMs without a custom kernel.
Developer support.
/thread
-Sent from my Galaxy Tab
Athailias said:
Battery life?
I am running a test of a custom kernel for my captivate. I turned off everything and wanted to see how long it would last.
No wifi or data (no sim card installed) it ran idle for 11 days.
Custom Kernel with no wifi or data its going to last about 50 days. (based on current estimate as im still testing it)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well this isn't exactly a real world situation. Who's to say that you're not running the cpu at 1mhz with the screen powered off 24/7. wouldn't you prefer to test under load and real use?
Sent from my Atrix using XDA App
Hi, don't know if this should be here or in a development thread.
My question is, and I know they are very important to this community etc
Why do we need devs?
What I mean is why do the original developers of the software, such as Google, leave it at such a bad state.
When XDA dev's get hold of it, their's no limit to what it can do.
E.g. Network mods, speaker mods, speed mods, theme's, custom drivers battery mods, heat mods, the list could go on.
Why don't the develops make it as good as it could be before they release it to us?
Some simple tweaks such as the networking ones to improve browsing/download speeds, why don't they just do it in the first place? Rather than limiting their users and therefor creating the need for so many underground developers.
Don't take this in the wrong way devs, I appreciate your work, just want to hear your opinions on why you think original devs leave it at such a state, where it could be deemed unfinished or totally lacking.
The oem thinks what is best for the device while other developer may have other opinions.
Eg, Google may think a kernel running at 1.3ghz is better than 1.6 ghz which Dev may think like wise. Also, the Google wanted promote cloud tech, and hence does not allow otg but Dev can unlock this feature.
Dev are there to do things not permit by company
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2
sinple said:
The oem thinks what is best for the device while other developer may have other opinions.
Eg, Google may think a kernel running at 1.3ghz is better than 1.6 ghz which Dev may think like wise. Also, the Google wanted promote cloud tech, and hence does not allow otg but Dev can unlock this feature.
Dev are there to do things not permit by company
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2
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Hey
Thanks for the reply, and I want this to be more of a discussion than answers
I don't understand why companies do it though.
And OTG is allowed for non-rooted devices. Just some of its features arent, if you get that. Like a mouse and keyboard works un-rooted, by a HDD doesnt.
I'm just curious as to why some of the devs here, such as Faux and Xmoo, havent got jobs at Google so they can teach them a thing or to. They know what the consumer actually wants, and pay attention to the needs of the tech enthusiast.
There is an diference between normal state and improved state. Its better. 1.3ghz processor runing normal and cooler than a 1.6ghz that could get warm and gives some trouble.
Im just glad that its not a locked device giving ours beloved devs the chance to improve it.
Sent from my LG-P500 using xda premium
maztahbr said:
There is an diference between normal state and improved state. Its better. 1.3ghz processor runing normal and cooler than a 1.6ghz that could get warm and gives some trouble.
Im just glad that its not a locked device giving ours beloved devs the chance to improve it.
Sent from my LG-P500 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I see your point
Basically "Better Safe than Sorry" right?
Exactly!
Sent from my LG-P500 using xda premium
How do you not see a need for developers?
Sent From My Toro+ via White Tapatalk
It's because people have preferences. And some people just like to tinker with their stuff.
The basic argumentative of yours seemed to be "if it's good enough, then we only need one". But, see , there is nothing in the world that's "best" enough to outsweep everything else. It's always nice to have options
I wouldn't say the stock rom and kernel is bad or "not enough" so the devs have to step out. I think google guys do a great job on stock rom. It's just nice for us users to have some other choices to play with.
In some sense it's kind of like buying flours. We wouldn't say,"well, if this brand of flours is good enough, we only need one brand in the world. Why so many brands out there?" Because different brands might grow in different places, use different breeds of wheats, have different moistures, use different ways to grind them, therefore different flavors. You simpy can't say anything would be that good that one is enough.
There is no limitation in improvement and imagination, and I think that's what devs here are doing.
The devs do amazing work, if only XDA was a tech company.
I know I won't be popular for saying this but I have tried a lot of different roms on a lot of different devices and in my experience it is best to stick with the stock rom, since custom roms inevitably have flaws which only present themselves at the most inopportune moments.
There's a reason why stock roms ship in the condition they're in; it's because all the variables are tried and tested and because a shed load of time has gone in to developing the software to work perfectly with the hardware. Dev's seem to have a knack of improving the software in some conditions at the expense of breaking it in others.
As an example, I once loaded a very popular custom rom onto a handset because everyone was raving about how good it was. Several days later I was at a wedding and took my handset out to snap some photos, only to realise that the camera didn't work in a certain configuration with this rom. The bug wasn't documented and the result was that I couldn't take any photos.
All too often this sort of thing happens; you'll read threads about the latest and greatest rom and how fast it is etc etc, only to then come across a comment about someone whose wifi keeps disconnecting, or someone whose battery life has halved and so on.
It's a bit like switching to Ubuntu from Windows, Ubuntu is fine if you like tinkering but if you want to get **** done, stick with Windows.
Happy to eat my words if someone recommends a fully working rom which is a genuine improvement over the stock rom.
Development can go on forever. My HTC inspire is two years old, and development is still going forward thanks to great devs (randomblame). Big companies just build for the masses. Devs tweak for us geeks that are always looking for more.
Sent from my Inspire 4G using xda app-developers app
Switchbitch said:
I know I won't be popular for saying this but I have tried a lot of different roms on a lot of different devices and in my experience it is best to stick with the stock rom, since custom roms inevitably have flaws which only present themselves at the most inopportune moments.
There's a reason why stock roms ship in the condition they're in; it's because all the variables are tried and tested and because a shed load of time has gone in to developing the software to work perfectly with the hardware. Dev's seem to have a knack of improving the software in some conditions at the expense of breaking it in others.
As an example, I once loaded a very popular custom rom onto a handset because everyone was raving about how good it was. Several days later I was at a wedding and took my handset out to snap some photos, only to realise that the camera didn't work in a certain configuration with this rom. The bug wasn't documented and the result was that I couldn't take any photos.
All too often this sort of thing happens; you'll read threads about the latest and greatest rom and how fast it is etc etc, only to then come across a comment about someone whose wifi keeps disconnecting, or someone whose battery life has halved and so on.
It's a bit like switching to Ubuntu from Windows, Ubuntu is fine if you like tinkering but if you want to get **** done, stick with Windows.
Happy to eat my words if someone recommends a fully working rom which is a genuine improvement over the stock rom.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
CM7 for the G2 is LOADS better than the stock HTC rom.
Android is a platform of options, our developers help give you more options. They allow you complete control over the hardware YOU purchased, keep you updated on the most recent version of Android, and let you tweak to your heart's desire. Microsoft and Apple lock you in, it's their way or the highway. But Android and it's developers give you the ability to say "I don't like this, and I'm going to change it".
Switchbitch said:
I know I won't be popular for saying this but I have tried a lot of different roms on a lot of different devices and in my experience it is best to stick with the stock rom, since custom roms inevitably have flaws which only present themselves at the most inopportune moments.
There's a reason why stock roms ship in the condition they're in; it's because all the variables are tried and tested and because a shed load of time has gone in to developing the software to work perfectly with the hardware. Dev's seem to have a knack of improving the software in some conditions at the expense of breaking it in others.
As an example, I once loaded a very popular custom rom onto a handset because everyone was raving about how good it was. Several days later I was at a wedding and took my handset out to snap some photos, only to realise that the camera didn't work in a certain configuration with this rom. The bug wasn't documented and the result was that I couldn't take any photos.
All too often this sort of thing happens; you'll read threads about the latest and greatest rom and how fast it is etc etc, only to then come across a comment about someone whose wifi keeps disconnecting, or someone whose battery life has halved and so on.
It's a bit like switching to Ubuntu from Windows, Ubuntu is fine if you like tinkering but if you want to get **** done, stick with Windows.
Happy to eat my words if someone recommends a fully working rom which is a genuine improvement over the stock rom.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
On non nexus devices I would agree. All of the aosp ROMs on my fascinate and d2g had serious issues that really couldn't be overlooked and made the phone unusable on a daily basis.
On the other hand, ROMs on my Galaxy Nexus and Nexus 7 are a huge improvement over stock. CM is always a solid choice.
I haz no sig
I can't believe no one has explicitly mentioned this...Google and other OEMs have a responsibility towards their shareholders and the market, whereas "devs" (like on xda) have no such responsibility; this makes a huge difference in process and result. As an example, theres a hack for the n7 to get the sony bravia engine, which is kinda nice, but there is no way that sony is going to let google do that legally is there? OEMs have to do things proper and legal.
The biggest difference though, is one already alluded to in this thread previous (imo), testing. Now CM actually does go through a LOT of testing and so on, but there is a sense in which Google's (or other OEMs) hands are tied due to deadlines, whilst CM has no such thing. While it is perfectly understandable for CM to go "here is CM10, btw its beta, but have at it" to the whole world after months of testing, I'm sure if Google did that people would be pissed, because Google releases to general market, they have strict deadlines based on internal product cycles and market variables and shareholder crap , but most of all people EXPECT market products to be rock solid, whereas its okay for something like CM to be broken sometimes. The reason n7 runs at 1.3 in stock and not 1.6 like some other ROM is likely because the company that made the processor probably told google something like "based on our testing 1.3 is the safest speed", people OC all the time, even desktops etc, but there is a "this is what it was MEANT to do according to the dudes who made it" thing.
But, at the end of the day there is no such thing as 'best' which is likely the reason we have SO MANY ROMs and not just the one, doing different things.
The devs are here because people like their devices to do different things and think they can make them better, myself I love to tweak things and so do the devs. Myself I just like to run CM10 on my N7, at least until its stable then I may try out the other ROMs. Also without the devs I wouldn't be able to run my CPU at 500 MHz over what its sold at and same thing with the GPU.
Determining when the development is "done" is subjective. And companies can only support their product in a limited time. Therefore, we need developers to continue where they left.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using xda premium