Related
Venting frustrations with a question - Does ANYONE have ANY idea if Google is applying any pressure to hardware manufacturers to ensure updates? I would think not.
The ONLY thing that I really appreciate about Apple is that the iPhone is certain to get updates at least during the duration of your 2-year contract term. (by the second generation after your purchase the os might not be backward compatible. I get that.) Android is so hit and miss with updates.
Take the Vibrant for example. (please no idiot posts about "you knew what you were getting!" "They never promised upgrades!" etc) When this phone came out it was, and stil is, touted as one of the best gaming phones on the market due to it's gpu. So anyone with any technical understanding could only assume that updates would come. Why put a super charged turbo in a mini van? (again, no idiot posts about the obvious).
I for one will NEVER BUY SAMSUNG AGAIN. I am looking at the HTC Pyramid. At least my htc g1 got all the updates it could handle.
Fragmentation and lack of support could end up being the legacy of android unless something changes. on the other hand, I suppose I do appreciate the commitment of samsung to update their phones "within 6 months of an os update release."
Thanks for letting me vent...
Sent from my Samsuck using XDA App
Alot of people see android and fragmentation in the same reply and become angry. Those are usually the words from iphone fans. But I do believe android needs to apply pressure to companies who put android on there devices. Support can make a big difference when it comes to customers. I have faith in android/google to figure out a balance of open source and some type of rule set for companies wth resources to apply updates.
I just hope it doesn't end up like winmo.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
Software updates should be given out by googleand google only.
I trust google and no one else in the android world.
xriderx66 said:
Software updates should be given out by googleand google only.
I trust google and no one else in the android world.
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Click to collapse
All android phones should be like the nexus,get updates directly from google
Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk
xriderx66 said:
Software updates should be given out by googleand google only.
I trust google and no one else in the android world.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
I am not considering anything but a nexus phone when its time to replace my vibrant....but honestly I don't care too much I got this phone knowing that samsung are gangsters and just leave phones with no real support...i knew from the start that it would be popular enough to have dev support....my phone has been rooted from day one
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
Welcome to the open source world. Get a Google phone if you want updates, they only have two available .
If only they have done that from the start.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
ALL of you are ignoring the fact the nexus doesn't have gingerbread... I mean we may have it sooner (leaks)
Android is as open as the developers behind the handset. The whole open source is better is just a lie that geeks tell themselves to justify their purchase. Take Vibrants for example, Android can still be the open platform that it is but without the developers behind it, it is nothing. Openess doesn't worth ****, not for phones.
A good counter example is iPhone (or WP7 eventually if the community grows), while the platform is closed source, the jailbroken community is still prosperous and brought many additional function to the platform without being open source platform in the first place.
sp1kez said:
All android phones should be like the nexus,get updates directly from google
From a business perspective, Google does not even want to come close to this responsibility. To much cost and responsibility at stake.
Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sent from my SGH-T959 using Tapatalk
Or does it seem like Honeycomb was rushed out. I get a lot of force closes on my browser and other apps that were installed when I get my Xoom. Does anyone else get that?
Nope, it's just you, nobody has never made a thread like this ever in this forum.
Next time put something real in the title.
Google is going to f***ing dissenchant me with all their little f***ing two sided antics. OK I get it, blah blah open f***ing source etc. But you can't have it both ways. You want to make a liberal system that can be taken advantage of freely by developers and promote creativity and freedom, great. But you do half the work and allow the cyanogenmod team to smooth out the rest of the quarks and make your OS closer to an expected consumer user experience, voiding peoples warranty in the process. Even at this point, OK. BUT YOU CAN'T F***ING HAVE THE HARDWARE MANUFACTURERS AND CARRIERS PARADING AROUND LIKE ITS OK TO MILK A HALF BAKED OS BY SUCKING PEOPLE DRY WITH INSANE UNJUSTIFIABLE PRICES, ESPECIALLY WHEN NOT EVEN ONE CENT OF ANY OF THE SOFTWARE DEVELOPMENT COMES OUT OF THEIR POCKET.
Google needs to put the f***ing squeeze on these a*****es or realize that they are full of s***.
IndivisibleP said:
Language in quote cleaned.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lolololol its a breath of fresh air seeing someone comment with this much emotion
Sent from my HTC Desire using XDA App
IndivisibleP said:
Google is going to f***ing dissenchant me with all their little f***ing two sided antics. OK I get it, blah blah open f***ing source etc. But you can't have it both ways. You want to make a liberal system that can be taken advantage of freely by developers and promote creativity and freedom, great. But you do half the work and allow the cyanogenmod team to smooth out the rest of the quarks and make your OS closer to an expected consumer user experience, voiding peoples warranty in the process. Even at this point, OK. BUT YOU CAN'T F***ING HAVE THE HARDWARE MANUFACTURERS AND CARRIERS PARADING AROUND LIKE ITS OK TO MILK A HALF BAKED OS BY SUCKING PEOPLE DRY WITH INSANE UNJUSTIFIABLE PRICES, ESPECIALLY WHEN NOT EVEN ONE CENT OF ANY OF THE SOFTWARE DEVELOPMENT COMES OUT OF THEIR POCKET.
Google needs to put the f***ing squeeze on these a*****es or realize that they are full of s***.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
and THE OP
Nobody forced you to buy anything. Is honeycomb perfect? no we already know this. 2.2 or 2.3 is not perfect so not sure what you expected. We got earthquakes, tsunamis, and civil wars going on and you are worried about some force closes. You dont like it dont buy it. You should feel lucky you even have the choice to buy a Xoom. Quit your *****in.
IndivisibleP said:
INSANE UNJUSTIFIABLE PRICES
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sounds like you can't really afford the Xoom. Maybe you should just take it back and get a refund. Yes, I think that's the best course for everyone involved.
DroidzFX said:
and THE OP
Nobody forced you to buy anything. Is honeycomb perfect? no we already know this. 2.2 or 2.3 is not perfect so not sure what you expected. We got earthquakes, tsunamis, and civil wars going on and you are worried about some force closes. You dont like it dont buy it. You should feel lucky you even have the choice to buy a Xoom. Quit your *****in.
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Click to collapse
I wasn't "*****in" as you like to put it I was merely asking a question as to whether this was a common thing or if mine was just having problems and maybe I should reload it or something to fix it. If you can't say anything constructive maybe you should avoid using that 1st amendment right of yours.
matdev said:
I wasn't "*****in" as you like to put it I was merely asking a question as to whether this was a common thing or if mine was just having problems and maybe I should reload it or something to fix it. If you can't say anything constructive maybe you should avoid using that 1st amendment right of yours.
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Click to collapse
Maybe you should do some research because this question has been asked several times. If the same question or statement is mentioned over and over then it becomes classified as *****in. Unfortunately you fell into this category.
I think the price is fair...and Moto does have software dev time in it - Kernel time at a minimum. I'm fully aware Google was involved in the design process of the device, but I doubt other than a ton of OEM support to Moto that they actually have a ton of resources invested in the device it self.
I guess no one has looked in to purchasing a 32Gb SSD - those alone are $100.
10" screen ~$100 for just a screen without any touch digitizer
So 200 bucks in cost in 2 pieces of hardware.
One of the problems with the Android community as a whole is everyone whining about price. The price of hardware, the price of apps. The Apple drones could care less about price, they'll pay what they are asked to pay regardless of any other thought than "It's white, it has fruit on it" . I however am a fairly informed consumer and am WILLING to pay for latest and greatest as long as it serves my needs.
However, the lack of HC Source has made me reconsider the purchase....
Kcarpenter said:
I think the price is fair...and Moto does have software dev time in it - Kernel time at a minimum. I'm fully aware Google was involved in the design process of the device, but I doubt other than a ton of OEM support to Moto that they actually have a ton of resources invested in the device it self.
I guess no one has looked in to purchasing a 32Gb SSD - those alone are $100.
10" screen ~$100 for just a screen without any touch digitizer
So 200 bucks in cost in 2 pieces of hardware.
One of the problems with the Android community as a whole is everyone whining about price. The price of hardware, the price of apps. The Apple drones could care less about price, they'll pay what they are asked to pay regardless of any other thought than "It's white, it has fruit on it" . I however am a fairly informed consumer and am WILLING to pay for latest and greatest as long as it serves my needs.
However, the lack of HC Source has made me reconsider the purchase....
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Click to collapse
You have to think though, that by not releasing the source.. they are doing their best to avoid some of the issues spoken about previously. Too often manufacturers would like to prey on the uneducated or the early adopters by throwing a half developed piece of hardware out the door, slapping the google android sticker on it.. and then while they profit, they take the good name of Google/Android and drag it through the mud.
Look at the reaction to the original Samsung Galaxy Tab. It was thrown out, with an OS that was not made for a tablet, on hardware not optimized for the design... only to capitalize on the fact that they would be the first out the gate (or at least one of the first). Apple did the same thing, and took their phone OS and blew it up to a larger format. The only reason they succeeded was that they had their system locked down and could ensure that they had a good hardware/software mix. The throngs of iFags everywhere gobble it up because they knew it would be solid enough to satisfy them for a year till the next one comes out and improves on it.
Google is finally learning from Apple in that respect.
By not releasing the sc for HC, they are making sure that they can correct the early issues found with HC in the Xoom, as well as ensure the hardware its installed on meets specific requirements as to not damage their name or their products name. Its not that it wont let it out eventually, but they want to make it as solid as possible before they do. I respect them for that, even if it makes the modding community's job a bit harder in the interim.
Lastly... you can blame the marketing techniques for shady products. Simple people are too excited by shiny products with big words in their advertising, that they get burned by not researching... and those that get burned, cry the most. Those that do their due diligence and research, only blame themselves when they get burned because they overlooked a mistake or failed to prioritize features.
matdev said:
Or does it seem like Honeycomb was rushed out. I get a lot of force closes on my browser and other apps that were installed when I get my Xoom. Does anyone else get that?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Can you give us some more details? Like, did you root your xoom or are you experiencing all of these force closes on a clean xoom that you just got 2 days ago? Did you throw an image on there, sideload a bunch of apps, etc....
Off Topic...
Many people do not understand when they try to compare the Xoom to a polished product like the iPad that the iPad OS has been around for a while before the iPad even came to market (iTouch, iPhone) and developers had already enough time to work with iOS so when the iPad was released there was not that much difference besides the new screen real estate that they had to adjust their apps for. When the iPad first came out there were some bugs, apps had that BS 2x until they were optimized for the iPad, etc...The Xoom is a brand new product that is sporting new hardware and a brand new OS that developers have not had the opportunity to work on until just recently so if "you" are not an early adopter then please buy an iPad. And if you are going to complain about the price of the Xoom compared to an iPad 2 then please explain how many 16GB WiFi only models are selling for the same price right now as a Xoom.
The entire android os and their very diverse array of devices is the reason it will fail. Kind of the same reason linux have not been able to penetrate the masses. I been a linux user since 92 and even I get overwhelmed sometimes with the amounts of distros out there. Got it that is what open source is about however. that same premises is what hinders its progress. Andoid is too fragmented with companies rushing out devices to the market without been ready, unfortunately the so call "early adopters" do everyone else a deservice by rushing to buy such devices, to compund this, companies are quick to abandon support for devices after a couple of months leaving us at the mercy of freelance developers (which by the way are great)
Yes the xoom and hc were rushed out to the market on an effort to get a headstart on other devices, by now it has been proven that it did now work as expected for them
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neonflx said:
The entire android os and their very diverse array of devices is the reason it will fail. Kind of the same reason linux have not been able to penetrate the masses.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA Premium App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What? You realize android is the most used smartphone platform worldwide right (ignoring sybian)? If that isn't market penetration I don't know what is.
The API differences from 1.6-2.3 are so minor that application compatibility is really a non issue between operating systems. The only issue is hardware differences really.
Ask the average Joe user what version of android or IOS they are using and they'll ask you "what?". Only the power users ***** and moan about these relatively minor OS updates because they always want the latest thing.
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neonflx said:
The entire android os and their very diverse array of devices is the reason it will fail. Kind of the same reason linux have not been able to penetrate the masses. I been a linux user since 92 and even I get overwhelmed sometimes with the amounts of distros out there. Got it that is what open source is about however. that same premises is what hinders its progress. Andoid is too fragmented with companies rushing out devices to the market without been ready, unfortunately the so call "early adopters" do everyone else a deservice by rushing to buy such devices, to compund this, companies are quick to abandon support for devices after a couple of months leaving us at the mercy of freelance developers (which by the way are great)
Yes the xoom and hc were rushed out to the market on an effort to get a headstart on other devices, by now it has been proven that it did now work as expected for them
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA Premium App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Are you rooting for Android to fail? You know they do have Windows based phones if you don't like android ones. No one is forcing you to buy anything android. This is not a hate forum so unless you actually own a xoom and have a general question/statement regarding the xoom/honeycomb then why not just go find a "I hate android/linux/capitalism" forum.
neonflx said:
The entire android os and their very diverse array of devices is the reason it will fail. Kind of the same reason linux have not been able to penetrate the masses. I been a linux user since 92 and even I get overwhelmed sometimes with the amounts of distros out there. Got it that is what open source is about however. that same premises is what hinders its progress. Andoid is too fragmented with companies rushing out devices to the market without been ready, unfortunately the so call "early adopters" do everyone else a deservice by rushing to buy such devices, to compund this, companies are quick to abandon support for devices after a couple of months leaving us at the mercy of freelance developers (which by the way are great)
Yes the xoom and hc were rushed out to the market on an effort to get a headstart on other devices, by now it has been proven that it did now work as expected for them
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA Premium App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Really? You must have been on a deserted island for the last couple years. My Xoom running Honeycomb works just fine. Someone needs to start a thread titled ***** here so you guys can get together share what type of tampons you prefer.
http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/mar2011/tc20110324_269784.htm
Google says it will delay the distribution of its newest Android source code, dubbed Honeycomb, at least for the foreseeable future. The search giant says the software, which is tailored specifically for tablet computers that compete against Apple's iPad, is not yet ready to be altered by outside programmers and customized for other devices, such as phones.
almostinsane said:
http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/mar2011/tc20110324_269784.htm
Google says it will delay the distribution of its newest Android source code, dubbed Honeycomb, at least for the foreseeable future. The search giant says the software, which is tailored specifically for tablet computers that compete against Apple's iPad, is not yet ready to be altered by outside programmers and customized for other devices, such as phones.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
More beta BS. I'll sell you a car but we only completed the frame.
Yup - Its why I just sent my Xoom back to Moto.
Perhaps it's time to change your ID to "completelyInsane".
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA App
_RTFM_ said:
Perhaps it's time to change your ID to "completelyInsane".
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Click to expand...
Click to collapse
LMAO!
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i dont understand what will make it "ready" if they are planning on eventually releasing it what will keep it from being ported to phones then. If its a matter of incompleteness then what's changed since Cupcake which everyone agrees was more .8 than 1.0. Releasing it to dev's will allow for bugfixes and tweaks to get merged upstream.
It will leak eventually. It always does...
Sent from my Xoom using XDA App
Yea I dont understand google some times. I understand the the OS isnt ready, but if it really is that bad and that unstable then why even put it on a tablet. And really what harm does it do the put out the code, so people will port it to other devices, you can keep doing what you will but make lots of devs happy.
They say they're worried about a poor user experience. Who do they think these users are? "I he4rd on the int3webz I can haz h0neycombz on my G1?" I mean we already know that the percentage of people running custom Roms, while large for what it is, is not the bulk of people using Android. And we know that what we're doing may not be the smoothest experience. The SDK has already been ported to pretty much everything, and they're worried about the actual 3.0 being a poor experience? Come on Google, what's this really about?
This wasn't the best source to quote from. Google said they don't want developers trying to port it to phones yet since they can't guarantee a good user experience on phones. They're afraid XDA is going to port it, people try to run it on their phones and then say how crappy it runs on a phone even though that's not what it was designed for. You know it would happen, and word would spread that it sucks on phones and yada yada it doesn't get a fair chance.
Sent via EVO
As much of a ROM guy as I am, I admit this makes sense from a business stand point. Google makes $ from licensing and distribution (with regards to Android). The hacker communities do not make up said market for the most part.
The worst thing companies combat these days is negative publicity.
I owned an iPhone, two iterations, the 3G and the original. Why did my mother never purchase one, nor my sister? Simply because of how locked down they are due to MY advice. Were they ever going to buy said device due to their hackability? Hell no. But because I said it was sh**** that Apple locks their stuff down so much, they declined to buy said hardware.
Releasing the software for Google could have a lot of negative effects on a BRAND NEW operating system for a BRAND NEW market for Google. If people are throwing this on phones, you search it out on the internet, and everything is Honeycomb this sucks, and honeycomb that sucks, due to people using it on phones, most people who try to do basic research, like my mother, or sister,
will only see "THIS SUCKS".
Just my 2c, but I can see their stand point. Until they can find a way to keep it off the phones, I see this as an issue for google.
~m
familiarstranger said:
They say they're worried about a poor user experience. Who do they think these users are? "I he4rd on the int3webz I can haz h0neycombz on my G1?" I mean we already know that the percentage of people running custom Roms, while large for what it is, is not the bulk of people using Android. And we know that what we're doing may not be the smoothest experience. The SDK has already been ported to pretty much everything, and they're worried about the actual 3.0 being a poor experience? Come on Google, what's this really about?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Uhmm, are we reading the same forum? Where people knowingly purchased a device that didn't have flash or lte or an ad card working at launch but are still *****ing and whining and returning their xoom regardless? What I mean is, those same people will install Honeycomb and complain that google released a lousy product.
Sent via EVO
thegeektern said:
I understand the the OS isnt ready, but if it really is that bad and that unstable then why even put it on a tablet. And really what harm does it do the put out the code, so people will port it to other devices, you can keep doing what you will but make lots of devs happy.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My understanding of that article is that Google doesn't feel its ready for phones. It's not that its not ready for tablets. They understand that they won't be able to stop people from using HC on phones, but trying to stave off the inevitable...
this HC thing looks like crap.... oh.. on my phone. In the end.. we are talking about a company here.. a company that needs to keep it's image.. and products.. (or software as you may call it).. as good as possible.
I don't think it's the best move Google could have made, but I think Google should do things in it's best interest to keep itself as a company in good standing. Long and short of it.. if things go south for google.. we'll all be unhappy. Just getting things out for the sake of allowing devs to play doesn't mean its the most sound decision for the company making it.
Yes, I know.. it's 'open source', but it is still a work-product. I think it's also entirely likely this is just a marketing ploy to say 'we told you so'.. and then it will get leaked and everything will go back to normal. But I still think people often forget that this is still a company that has to keep itself together to survive.
EDIT: So many things get written in the same time when you respond to a post! It seems as though I am joining the choir of.. this isn't so bad.
Sirchuk said:
This wasn't the best source to quote from. Google said they don't want developers trying to port it to phones yet since they can't guarantee a good user experience on phones. They're afraid XDA is going to port it, people try to run it on their phones and then say how crappy it runs on a phone even though that's not what it was designed for. You know it would happen, and word would spread that it sucks on phones and yada yada it doesn't get a fair chance.
Sent via EVO
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well that hasn't stopped devs on xda porting it already - http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=978939
Darn you almostinsane, I was just about to post this but you beat me to it!
Its really unfortunate that Google is doing this, whatever happened to a completely open source OS? In my honest opinion I think they should release it to the public and let the various devs have at it and see what can be improved and take those improvements into consideration for the next release of Android. If the OS was only meant for tablets who is to say that x developer can port it to a handheld flawlessly? It would be a HUGE leap ahead for us and for big ol' G.
Either way, it'll happen with or without Google releasing the source as our one dev spacemoose1 has shown us with making a near perfect port to the Samsung tab of honeycomb.
Stinks money is such an issue, Google doesn't really need anymore haha.
Done with my rant now
Sent from my ADR6300 using XDA App
Another business reason for this decision: Google may not have programmed Honeycomb well.
An obvious(?) repercussion for grimy source code going public is more bashing of Honeycomb's alleged "beta-ness". The more app developers that use the ...poisonous open-source code, the more ...poisoned apps there will be.
Or, they want to curb full-blown Honeycomb from appearing on devices other than the Xoom for just a little longer.
you're right. I just hate that its true. Your sig shows you remember the G1 days when we were all just so happy about what our phone COULD do. It's gotten a lot whinnier around here since then.
Sirchuk said:
Uhmm, are we reading the same forum? Where people knowingly purchased a device that didn't have flash or lte or an ad card working at launch but are still *****ing and whining and returning their xoom regardless? What I mean is, those same people will install Honeycomb and complain that google released a lousy product.
Sent via EVO
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As a ROM enthusiast; yea this sucks. Business it's understandable; but as the former it doesn't make me happy.
My NC sorely needs a aosp honeycomb, HC's tablet interface is superior to even CM7 on it.
Honestly though it's a lot of speculation here on why, but it really just sounds like an excuse (Bad one) to quiet the devs while really being a straight business decision.
How is not releasing honeycomb aosp right away not being open? Would you like all your roms without SD card support right now? Honeycomb is most likely stable enough for normal use for the average consumer and Google had to make footprint in the tablet industry before ipad2 was announced. Things were obviously rushed so i rather wait for them get everything situated. I think this unfortunate news but I'm not gonna cry foul when its something that's probably for the better. Google has proven with each iteration of android they have released source so just be patient
Sent from my Xoom using Tapatalk
almostinsane said:
Yup - Its why I just sent my Xoom back to Moto.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't understand the logic here. What alternative are you seeking? Take it back for the Galaxy 10.1? It runs the same OS. Take it back for an iPad? It runs a closed OS.
The AOSP release is delayed ... maybe. Why would you return your Xoom because of this?
Sent from my Nexus One using XDA Premium App
We all know the reason updates are slow to roll out is because of money. Why update older phones when you can sell new ones with the latest OS? So would you pay for updates to get them sooner? If so how much would you be willing to shell out?
Trigger 3.3
I'll only pay it if it's pure Google and no more than 20$. Lol
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
No reason to pay for it. Androids kernel is based off Linux. Open source!
Google should force the hardware manufacturers to give them the drivers. Ya, I would say at this point in the game, with the dominance of Android, why not start playing hard ball with manufacturers and carriers? You don't even need the phone manufacturers support, since most of the components (chips, memory, screen, etc) are from various manufacturers, and not really the phone manufacturer. Just get the drivers from component makers directly.
Anyway, if one really had to pay. I think minor updates should be free, and major OS overhauls should have a minor fee, if at all. Personally, I would pay a small fee for major OS upgrades versus free for small updates.
Id be willing to pay a small amount over waiting months.
Trigger 3.3
I think there should be one ultimate phone. You know in the android which gets the fastest updates, oh wait isn't that a nexus? :O
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You start paying for this sort of thing and then they send out the dogs. Bad idea. I can't think of any companies that have done this but I'm sure there are major ones.
And. If the main os was optimized for users by the dev team and people that haven't bought the update them can be in trouble for stealing. Yeah they might try it but the push against would be stronger. And pirating phone stuff would be HUGE. Almost as big as movie or game s are.
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helllllllll no.
Only if its straitup aosp. And if we can get the God d*mn update the day Google released it. You know like 2.3 was realeased in December and some company's *cough*HTC*cough* didn't release it till today. And without new sense... smh -_-
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GreggoryD502 said:
We all know the reason updates are slow to roll out is because of money. Why update older phones when you can sell new ones with the latest OS? So would you pay for updates to get them sooner? If so how much would you be willing to shell out?
Trigger 3.3
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
To answer. I wouldn't pay a dime. A device should work satisfactorily as advertised. If it does not then I choose to take matters into my own hands, either by getting another device or indulging in a community like this one. I just don't think it's as simple as your implying.
Money is a motivator for manufacturers and carriers, but only in the sense of how it impacts meeting deadlines and release schedules. No amount of theoretical payola from end users is going to change this. End users and their perceptions do matter, even to manufacturers. But we're kidding ourselves if we think that our goals here in a place like XDA represent anything remotely close to the majority. They do not.
Android brings an entirely different sort of OS ecosystem to the table than consumers have been accustomed to, and more importantly entirely different than what carriers and manufacturers are accustomed to.
Much of what we have seen in the past few years with regards slow or nonexistent updates has been due to how manufacturers initially approached Android as simply a way to stave off significant R&D. Manufacturers are doing better in this regard as of late, because the ecosystem as a whole is maturing. The market is now lucrative and extensive, but competition is rife.
It is these competitive forces AND ONLY THESE that will improve the situation. Indeed it can be readily argued that this above all else is what has made such update issues ameliorate themselves. The most jaded among us can certainly realize things are much better now for Android as a whole than they were a year ago. Orders of magnitude so!!
Even so, realize that manufacturers will only do what they deem is in their interests when developing for their products. No matter how capable the hardware, or how "open" the infrastructure, manufacturers are in this for profit (as well they should be). Many will realize that supporting existing hardware is in their best interest, but as we've seen in similar scenarios in the PC universe, they will do this to varying degrees and for their own reasons. Some will do better than others and perhaps some of that will play out well with end users and gain them loyal customers. It's as likely that customers will simply go elsewhere because they're enticed to do so. This simply isn't as simple a problem as it was when this whole Android sleighride started anymore.
Communities like XDA have a role to play, and the developers and their efforts made here recontribute to everyone involved. But lets not kid ourselves. The performance of most devices as they ship is, to varying degrees, satisfactory. Most users are not zealots (and lets be frank, most XDA people *ARE*), and many of the concerns expressed here are not only unrealistic they are pointless. It is difficult enough to come up with a concrete list of precisely why 2.3 is better than 2.2, or 2.1 amongst ourselves as it is. To most end users perception (and thus most manufacturers) these distinctions are trivial and meaningless.
XDA is a hacker's maven. An important one, and a valuable one to those of us who participate here. But Android itself is no longer *just* a hacker's wet dream. It's a commercial juggernaut of a platform that is living and thriving quite nicely with or without us as this stage.
I would make a donation to the person who cracks it so people can use it for free.
doug2060 said:
I would make a donation to the person who cracks it so people can use it for free.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
... Piracy?
I LIKE IT.
I will pay for it. Not to Samsung or t-mobile. I have $20 saved for the first developer who gets gingerbread working stable on our phone.
It's like asking "Would you spend money to buy linux?" Noooo!
HyprGeek said:
It's like asking "Would you spend money to buy linux?" Noooo!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You do realize not all Linux distros are free right?
I wouldn't.
pvspencer22 said:
You do realize not all Linux distros are free right?
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Click to collapse
yeah but how many go for the paid instead of free?
Ok what if google can get updates out like apple does to its devices. Notice sprint does not even have ics yet for the nexus s since sprint is launching the galery nexus soon so I bet sprint just only,let a few phone get the ics update as a beta if you will as then user would not buy the newer ics phone. So if google charged a small update fee provided your phone meets the requirements. Or why does google even allow all these add ons like sense and touchwiz. Why not have the pure google non skinned version for like a few dollars and if you want the custom sense then wait for htc samsung to release it a year later.... cough cough fryo.... cough cough gingerbread....
Sent from my SPH-D700 using xda premium
Well to answer your question, nope, since we got amazing devs here to satisfy our quench for updating XD
Sent from my SPH-D700 using xda premium
Fire n mage said:
Well to answer your question, nope, since we got amazing devs here to satisfy our quench for updating XD
Sent from my SPH-D700 using xda premium
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Click to collapse
True for people who are rooted but what about the average non xda type of user who waits for offical ota?
Sent from my SPH-D700 using xda premium
Defiantly not, why should we? You don't pay Apple for updates.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
samsungd700 said:
True for people who are rooted but what about the average non xda type of user who waits for offical ota?
Sent from my SPH-D700 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
those average non xda people dont even know root or the latest software means it more of a phone to call and text and browse internet. they dont care if their phone has the latest and greatest updates.
mark8503 said:
Defiantly not, why should we? You don't pay Apple for updates.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You buy the phone from apple, and they also make the software. We buy the phone from Samsung, and Google makes the software. Big difference. You seriously wouldn't shell out like 5 dollars to get ICS like 4 months ago, fully working and smooth? Gonna call bs on that.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA
mark8503 said:
Defiantly not, why should we? You don't pay Apple for updates.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't pay Apple for anyting. Lol
/trollface
Sent from my SPH-D700 using xda premium
mark8503 said:
Defiantly not, why should we? You don't pay Apple for updates.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sure you do its called OS/X.... which is i-os is somewhat based on...
muyoso said:
You buy the phone from apple, and they also make the software. We buy the phone from Samsung, and Google makes the software. Big difference. You seriously wouldn't shell out like 5 dollars to get ICS like 4 months ago, fully working and smooth? Gonna call bs on that.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA
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Click to collapse
Well i disagree on that one as Google does also makes phones called the Nexus and the Motorola Mobility line as Google no owns Moto Mobility. And from what i understand its the stuff like touchwiz and sense that make it harder to get the updates a quickly since the carriers must test everything for like 90 days or more and if it fails then they start the process from the beginning.
I say google should only have one uniform look to android like how apple does with i-os. (i however do not like apple as too expensive for the rich people) If you want a custom launcher like go you can download it but it would not be apart of any official rom from the maker / carrier.
thomasskull666 said:
I don't pay Apple for anyting. Lol
/trollface
Sent from my SPH-D700 using xda premium
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Click to collapse
Lol I don't either. Meaning we don't buy it. PERIOD!!!!
samsungd700 said:
Sure you do its called OS/X.... which is i-os is somewhat based on...
Well i disagree on that one as Google does also makes phones called the Nexus and the Motorola Mobility line as Google no owns Moto Mobility. And from what i understand its the stuff like touchwiz and sense that make it harder to get the updates a quickly since the carriers must test everything for like 90 days or more and if it fails then they start the process from the beginning.
I say google should only have one uniform look to android like how apple does with i-os. (i however do not like apple as too expensive for the rich people) If you want a custom launcher like go you can download it but it would not be apart of any official rom from the maker / carrier.
Click to expand...
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i have to say; it looks like youve just taken random sentences and thrown them together here.
austin420 said:
i have to say; it looks like youve just taken random sentences and thrown them together here.
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+1
And for real there is a Galery Nexus coming soon? I will compare it with the Galaxy Nexus to check which one is better.
And back to the thread. I won't pay, but there is people which pay to others for root their phones, so I think they will pay.
Sent from my Epic 4g with CM9
csmasn said:
+1
And for real there is a Galery Nexus coming soon? I will compare it with the Galaxy Nexus to check which one is better.
And back to the thread. I won't pay, but there is people which pay to others for root their phones, so I think they will pay.
Sent from my Epic 4g with CM9
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Click to collapse
i would pay for official updates if it means they come as soon as google releases them. perhaps google should not release any updates until all carriers and manufacturer are ready to push them to all phones that meet the requirements. Do what microsoft does and they just push them to all phones at the same time so the carriers dont have a say in the matter... sort of like windows update on the pc. just check for the update and then install... carriers and manufacturer have too much power to decide who gets what...
I'd love to have mine done in a timely manor. I hear it's nice this time of year!
NO way wouldn't pay! Plus its totally unrealistic considering the different devices and bloatware! Apple has one device line to update! But don't forget Apple owns the software! You get caught messing with it they "Kill" your phone!
MTD (EL30)
BLENDED CLEAN GB 1.12 With Various mods
SHADOW V3.0
(in the voice of lil john)
YAAAYUUUUUHH!!!!
Robalboa said:
NO way wouldn't pay! Plus its totally unrealistic considering the different devices and bloatware! Apple has one device line to update! But don't forget Apple owns the software! You get caught messing with it they "Kill" your phone!
MTD (EL30)
BLENDED CLEAN GB 1.12 With Various mods
SHADOW V3.0
(in the voice of lil john)
YAAAYUUUUUHH!!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well how does microsoft do it then with windows phone 7 and with the pc's? As long as if the phones meet the minimum requirements then good to go. This would work simply because it would get rid of the custom interfaces from the makers like htc sense or samsung touchwiz. If you want those they would only be available as a download apk from the market like how go launcher and adw desktop are. Google needs to take a stand on the custom overlays and how they devalue android with lack of updates as the makers think somehow that sense or touchwiz add somesort of value to the phone when in fact it does not. android 4 is perfect interface and with android 2.x and 3.x its good enough or download some aftermarket one like go launcher. Otherwise i would pay for updates like how i do on my laptop. they can also make money off the updates as well like $25 per phone again as long as it meets the requirements. and now google owns motorola mobility so google is now just like appple. So goolge / Moto Mobility does control the hardware and software
samsungd700 said:
well how does microsoft do it then with windows phone 7 and with the pc's? As long as if the phones meet the minimum requirements then good to go. This would work simply because it would get rid of the custom interfaces from the makers like htc sense or samsung touchwiz. If you want those they would only be available as a download apk from the market like how go launcher and adw desktop are. Google needs to take a stand on the custom overlays and how they devalue android with lack of updates as the makers think somehow that sense or touchwiz add somesort of value to the phone when in fact it does not. android 4 is perfect interface and with android 2.x and 3.x its good enough or download some aftermarket one like go launcher. Otherwise i would pay for updates like how i do on my laptop. they can also make money off the updates as well like $25 per phone again as long as it meets the requirements. and now google owns motorola mobility so google is now just like appple. So goolge / Moto Mobility does control the hardware and software
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
who is to say that custom launchers are devaluing android? if anything, they bring more to the table. i think a lot of the people here would say that they prefer some of the asthetics and options that touchwiz includes. i cant speak to sense or motoblur as i havent used them.
No. Just like I would not pay extra for gas to have someone else come out and pump it for me. In both cases we already pay too much, for gas, for the phones, service and insurance. If all phones were free I would think about it. But you pay more for a better phone, it damn well better be updated in a reasonable timely manner.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using xda premium
The manufacturer should be providing timely updates as part of buying the phone. We should expect new versions of the OS until at least the EOL and then bugfixes and security updates for another two years past that as a minimum.
Now that we're done with fantasy land, I wouldn't mind paying a nominal charge for a version update provided that they have a stable bug-free version of the current OS. IMHO Samsung never got there with the Epic.
samsungd700 said:
True for people who are rooted but what about the average non xda type of user who waits for offical ota?
Sent from my SPH-D700 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The average non-xda user wouldn't know what 'stock' android is, and frankly, they probably wouldn't be impressed with it for this reason right here
--vvv---
austin420 said:
who is to say that custom launchers are devaluing android? if anything, they bring more to the table. i think a lot of the people here would say that they prefer some of the asthetics and options that touchwiz includes. i cant speak to sense or motoblur as i havent used them.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I haven't used Sense, but from my limited experience, Blur is horrid. TW smokes it by a mile. I enjoyed some of the features of Touchwiz, no joke.
And OP, while Google may now own Motorola Mobility, it doesn't mean they own all the hardware. It just means they kind of do with Motorola. They still don't with Samsung, HTC, LG, Sony, etc etc etc.
I'm still a firm believer the biggest reason Google bought Moto was for the patents, not to try and complete with Apple by owning both hardware/software.
EDIT: For the record, I think the number one way to go about the issue is this: all android phones, stock, come with their own skin out of the box by default. However, the user has the ability to go with stock Android upon bootup or something like that. Maybe a tutorial that guides users stating what that skin brings to the table. Maybe something saying here's what you'll have with the skin vs without it, and list off apps and features associated with it.
This way, us android-heads can get any phone we want with stock android, and the average user still has the same options as today.
I wanted to put something of worth within this thread as a conversation topic, but it has become rather vexing trying to pick apart the compilation of sentences that the OP's has been using lol, though me saying I mean no offense would not help I don't think heh.
In regards to paying for an upgrade, it does occur in iOS when the next incremental upgrades come to the iPod Touch Line, for iPhone's a user is guaranteed that update due to being on a monthly plan with their device unless that device is gradually replaced in which case it goes no further upgrade wise as there is a new iteration close to it in price and internal size, if iPad's are affected in the same way being on carrier/off carrier I'm unaware, I also haven't upgraded my iPod Touch in a long while either to test the validity of that, so I'm open to correction. Though iOS has been on 5.x for a bit anyways.
In this case.
Android lacks something iOS does in this case, uniformity, which is how Apple portrays their control over their platform and why it's so popular and simple to use, they limit what can be used and what is used and set a basis forward to keep compatibility in the long run. The Nexus Line is controlled by Google and their partner in each step of the way, more by Google however because they essentially get to pick and choose what they want which works well in the whole grand scheme of things, which means timely updates are to come. They don't have control over LG, HTC, Sony, or Samsung for that matter in their other endeavors in Android and what "crap"(lack of more proper word) that's proprietary they decide to put within the platform for the sake of bragging rights, they're their own entities which for the most part have added to the overall disconnection of Android across the board. Buying out that specific aspect of Motorola was a play for patents to avoid lawsuit not a play for control.
Saying you'd pay money for an update to Android on your phone becomes problematic, in our case, ICS. If you paid $10 because you to have the update when it came out, in the following months it'd be very likely it'd have problems, and you'd be the prime benefactor of said problems. You paid $10 for an update, now what about the update to address that issue? Or the update following that update to address the following issues? Or what if you paid for an update and never got an update in the long run, just for the sake of not having one?
Would those be paid as well? I'm only throwing forth baseless scenarios, because this arrives to the entitlement aspect of things. Paying to get an update makes you entitled to said update, when a company can G.A.F less about an older piece of hardware having support when they've devices in their minds which are twice as good as last years model. I understand where you're going with this thread but, paying for your update in software wouldn't make the fact that your phone is aging any better, nor would it make Android any more uniform, it'd only make it more annoying of a platform due to it. It's not a better alternative than just waiting it out on what you're currently using until you can upgrade your line to something new. Spending more money to have your phone officially supported is rather foolish. In my opinion though.
/endrant
And essentially the Epic isn't EOL/EOS. It just happens to be on it's last legs. So whether it's last update is stable or not won't matter at that point.