I'm a video editor and have been shooting and editing video professionally for the past 7 years. I don't work for Samsung, Sprint, or any affiliated companies.
The camcorder lags in low light because the shutter rate of the camera has to slow down in order to capture the image. The shutter rate is how many times the shutter has to open and close in order to take in light to make an image. On a nice sunny day outdoors, the light sensor can easily take in the light. Hence, you get a high shutter rate. Sometimes up to 1/5000 depending on the camera.
When you're shooting in low light situations, the sensor has to be open long enough in order to take in enough light to make an image. Thus, the shutter rate decreases to about 1/10 or so. When the shutter rate decreases, your camera can make a nice low light picture... but you get blur, grain, and what looks like a slower frame rate.
So, this camcorder "lag" you speak of in low light is NORMAL. It's inherent to all video cameras in low light. If you want a better image... get some lights!
If the low light performance on the camcorder was better with a different build, like in DI18, they probably locked the shutter rate at about 1/30 in order to keep a good framerate, but the low light performance wouldn't be as good as you have now.
TL/DR: It's normal. They just reduced the shutter speed so you can get a BETTER image in low light. Want a better image? Film in better lighting!
Edit: What Samsung should do to fix this is to lock the shutter rate at about 1/30. You won't get a good low light image, but the motion will be consistent. Seems to me you guys want good motion and not a good image. You can't have both in low light situations. You have to choose one or the other.
Thanks for your expert advice.....but we'll wait to hear back from someone that actually writes code
DangerZone1223 said:
I'm a video editor and have been shooting and editing video professionally for the past 7 years. I don't work for Samsung, Sprint, or any affiliated companies.
The camcorder lags in low light because the shutter rate of the camera has to slow down in order to capture the image. The shutter rate is how many times the shutter has to open and close in order to take in light to make an image. On a nice sunny day outdoors, the light sensor can easily take in the light. Hence, you get a high shutter rate. Sometimes up to 1/5000 depending on the camera.
When you're shooting in low light situations, the sensor has to be open long enough in order to take in enough light to make an image. Thus, the shutter rate decreases to about 1/10 or so. When the shutter rate decreases, your camera can make a nice low light picture... but you get blur, grain, and what looks like a slower frame rate.
So, this camcorder "lag" you speak of in low light is NORMAL. It's inherent to all video cameras in low light. If you want a better image... get some lights!
If the low light performance on the camcorder was better with a different build, like in DI18, they probably locked the shutter rate at about 1/30 in order to keep a good framerate, but the low light performance wouldn't be as good as you have now.
TL/DR: It's normal. They just reduced the shutter speed so you can get a BETTER image in low light. Want a better image? Film in better lighting!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wrong. You failed to understand the issue. This eb13 has either flawed drivers or the wrong ones. The dk28 froyo beta works flawlessly. I personally tested both builds. This is a programmers error that should be patched soon. When the patch is given, it should work as good as eclair or dk28.
DangerZone1223 said:
I'm a video editor and have been shooting and editing video professionally for the past 7 years. I don't work for Samsung, Sprint, or any affiliated companies.
The camcorder lags in low light because the shutter rate of the camera has to slow down in order to capture the image. The shutter rate is how many times the shutter has to open and close in order to take in light to make an image. On a nice sunny day outdoors, the light sensor can easily take in the light. Hence, you get a high shutter rate. Sometimes up to 1/5000 depending on the camera.
When you're shooting in low light situations, the sensor has to be open long enough in order to take in enough light to make an image. Thus, the shutter rate decreases to about 1/10 or so. When the shutter rate decreases, your camera can make a nice low light picture... but you get blur, grain, and what looks like a slower frame rate.
So, this camcorder "lag" you speak of in low light is NORMAL. It's inherent to all video cameras in low light. If you want a better image... get some lights!
If the low light performance on the camcorder was better with a different build, like in DI18, they probably locked the shutter rate at about 1/30 in order to keep a good framerate, but the low light performance wouldn't be as good as you have now.
TL/DR: It's normal. They just reduced the shutter speed so you can get a BETTER image in low light. Want a better image? Film in better lighting!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It appears that on the older builds the camera gained up to deal with lower light situations. On the current build it slows the frame rate (not the shutter rate) even normal indoor lighting. You shouldn't do that with video. This would be fine on a still camera but totally unacceptable in video, even amateur video taken with a cell phone.
BTW, I'm a broadcast video engineer by trade.
abduljaffar said:
Wrong. You failed to understand the issue. This eb13 has either flawed drivers or the wrong ones. The dk28 froyo beta works flawlessly. I personally tested both builds. This is a programmers error that should be patched soon. When the patch is given, it should work as good as eclair or dk28.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Here's the problem: You didn't say what the problem is. You just said "it doesn't work". What doesn't work? Please accurately explain and DETAIL the problem with the camcorder in EB13.
abduljaffar said:
Wrong. You failed to understand the issue. This eb13 has either flawed drivers or the wrong ones. The dk28 froyo beta works flawlessly. I personally tested both builds. This is a programmers error that should be patched soon. When the patch is given, it should work as good as eclair or dk28.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Theres nothing wrong about what he said. He said that the programmers did it. They locked the shutter rate in DI18, to prevent lag. It just causes a lower quality video. The videos in low light were darker in DI18, but faster. Which is what he is saying.
poit said:
It appears that on the older builds the camera gained up to deal with lower light situations. On the current build it slows the frame rate (not the shutter rate) even normal indoor lighting. You shouldn't do that with video. This would be fine on a still camera but totally unacceptable in video, even amateur video taken with a cell phone.
BTW, I'm a broadcast video engineer by trade.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The shutter rate slows down the GOP, but the frame rate remains constant.
It's not "normal". If you're really a video editor, you'd know that. Being able to explain an effect doesn't make it "normal".
That's like saying "I can explain your cancer. Cancer is just when cells mutate and crowd out other cells. It happens to a lot of people. It's perfectly normal!"
Phone sensors are smaller and therefore not as sensitive to light as sensors in professional or even semi-professional cameras. (Larger sensors can capture more light; just the laws of physics.) So image quality on phones is always a compromise.
However, the solution to this lack of light-gathering ability should not be to hold the shutter open for such a long time that it ruins the frame rate. That's cutting off your nose to spite your face. And no one should accept it.
I think we are all fine with a little graininess in the artificially boosted low-light images from our Epic camcorders as long as it means we have a stable frame rate. This is the way every other low-end camera works and it's the way this phone used to work, and should still work.
DangerZone1223 said:
Here's the problem: You didn't say what the problem is. You just said "it doesn't work". What doesn't work? Please accurately explain and DETAIL the problem with the camcorder in EB13.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Fine, I figure everyone is aware of the bug. Go to a very dark room and launch the camcorder. Maybe turn on the tv so that's the only light source. Now pan around the room. You see that god awful blur? That's because the camera is barely pushing 5 fps. Compare that to eclair or dk28, in which keeps a steady healthy 30 fps with absolutely no frame drops.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using Tapatalk
badasscat said:
It's not "normal". If you're really a video editor, you'd know that. Being able to explain an effect doesn't make it "normal".
That's like saying "I can explain your cancer. Cancer is just when cells mutate and crowd out other cells. It happens to a lot of people. It's perfectly normal!"
Phone sensors are smaller and therefore not as sensitive to light as sensors in professional or even semi-professional cameras. (Larger sensors can capture more light; just the laws of physics.) So image quality on phones is always a compromise.
However, the solution to this lack of light-gathering ability should not be to hold the shutter open for such a long time that it ruins the frame rate. That's cutting off your nose to spite your face. And no one should accept it.
I think we are all fine with a little graininess in the artificially boosted low-light images from our Epic camcorders as long as it means we have a stable frame rate. This is the way every other low-end camera works and it's the way this phone used to work, and should still work.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
correct. Being a pro photographer should hint him that its not normal. But we ask make mistakes. Just like samsung or sprint made resulting in what we are experiencing. Btw, sprint acknowledges the camera bug aswell.
It would be nice if they could just make options like the gain user adjustable so that we could tailer that setting to whatever lighting environment we're in....like the iso on a still cam.
I know that before when I had DK28, my videos would not capture past 3 seconds, I would get a message saying Recording Failed. With the new build this doesnt happen.
abduljaffar said:
Fine, I figure everyone is aware of the bug. Go to a very dark room and launch the camcorder. Maybe turn on the tv so that's the only light source. Now pan around the room. You see that god awful blur? That's because the camera is barely pushing 5 fps. Compare that to eclair or dk28, in which keeps a steady healthy 30 fps with absolutely no frame drops.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Re-read my first post, sir, and you'll get your answer.
jonesy827 said:
I know that before when I had DK28, my videos would not capture past 3 seconds, I would get a message saying Recording Failed. With the new build this doesnt happen.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How long do your recordings last now? Mine fail around 2 minutes, using a class 6 sd card. Never happened before.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
jonesy827 said:
I know that before when I had DK28, my videos would not capture past 3 seconds, I would get a message saying Recording Failed. With the new build this doesnt happen.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There's an option to free record and to limit for MMS. However, I've had recording fail a few times on DK28 when I was on free record. I figured I had too many programs running in the background.
I've recorded a few times at varying lengths in EB13 and haven't had any problems so far.
The point is, something that worked fine before, (smooth video recording indoors) doesn't work now. It's not normal, anyone who has seen it can tell it's not normal.
badasscat said:
It's not "normal". If you're really a video editor, you'd know that. Being able to explain an effect doesn't make it "normal".
That's like saying "I can explain your cancer. Cancer is just when cells mutate and crowd out other cells. It happens to a lot of people. It's perfectly normal!"
Phone sensors are smaller and therefore not as sensitive to light as sensors in professional or even semi-professional cameras. (Larger sensors can capture more light; just the laws of physics.) So image quality on phones is always a compromise.
However, the solution to this lack of light-gathering ability should not be to hold the shutter open for such a long time that it ruins the frame rate. That's cutting off your nose to spite your face. And no one should accept it.
I think we are all fine with a little graininess in the artificially boosted low-light images from our Epic camcorders as long as it means we have a stable frame rate. This is the way every other low-end camera works and it's the way this phone used to work, and should still work.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Samsung probably wanted you to get the best picture out of your camera and lowered the shutter speed to not add any artificial gain.
It's damned if you do and damned if you don't. Add gain and people complain about grain and artifacts. Slow down the shutter rate and get slower playback. Don't shoot the messenger here!
poit said:
The point is, something that worked fine before, (smooth video recording indoors) doesn't work now. It's not normal, anyone who has seen it can tell it's not normal.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
True. I'll add this to my original post.
I'll gladly take graininess over a what looks like a blurry Peter Gabriel video.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
Here is a video I shot of one of my DJ friends in low light using only the camera flash as the light source on my phone (along with the various disco/club lights). Even in low light, the frame rate was very smooth.
After the EB13 update, the fps is horrible and I would never be able to shoot this same video in the phone's current state.
Related
Topic says it all, when shooting video in dark situations framerate drops to 10 - 12 -17 so it's frustrating! Since the specification of the video says that the variable frame rate if there is a chance to somehow locked at 30fps!
Great magicians of hacking help please!!!
Nope, wait for a update from HTC and hope for the best... (for now anyway)
Even if we set Exposure to -2 and ISO to 800 we can't achive 30 fps, so, if we lock frame rate to 30, in low light, it is possible that the video is to dark for us to do anything with it.
IMHO DHD have a poor camera sensor for low light.
mdalacu said:
Even if we set Exposure to -2 and ISO to 800 we can't achive 30 fps, so, if we lock frame rate to 30, in low light, it is possible that the video is to dark for us to do anything with it.
IMHO DHD have a poor camera sensor for low light.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes or not enough processing power to handle the low light data in real time, or enough power but the processor is busy getting US stocks data for people who never trade in US stocks and running Facebook for people who dont have a facebook account and.....(long list of featutes that burn my cpu and battery but never use or want)
Sent from my HTC HD so may contain typos, bugs and, if the battery lasts, pearls of....(battery 0%)
l0w said:
Yes or not enough processing power to handle the low light data in real time, or enough power but the processor is busy getting US stocks data for people who never trade in US stocks and running Facebook for people who dont have a facebook account and.....(long list of featutes that burn my cpu and battery but never use or want)
Sent from my HTC HD so may contain typos, bugs and, if the battery lasts, pearls of....(battery 0%)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Haha, love the sarcasm
You do know you can remove all the crap you don't want like Stocks etc? One of the many joys of rooting your phone
I really wish there was a way to get the camera to shoot 30 fps in low light too
I really dont care how much noise will be introduced. 30 fps is most important. Is this even possible for a developer here to work on since this is HTC's own app and i think HTC dont release their source?
Have you tried shooting with flashlight on? Or setting the white balance manually, I'm sure I read somewhere that helps, turning off automatic white balance removes the annoying changes in brightness and helps improve framers alongside setting exposure to manual.
Be nice if it just shot un 30fps all the time like iPhone, I'm sure it will be sorted.
Sent from my Desire HD using XDA App
gamesmachine said:
Have you tried shooting with flashlight on? Or setting the white balance manually, I'm sure I read somewhere that helps, turning off automatic white balance removes the annoying changes in brightness and helps improve framers alongside setting exposure to manual.
Be nice if it just shot un 30fps all the time like iPhone, I'm sure it will be sorted.
Sent from my Desire HD using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have a gut feeling it wont be sorted. Take a look at the old Desire. It's camcorder is still shooting at 22 fps in optimal light! Probably less than 10 in low light. HTC just doesnt seem to care
SupremeBeaver said:
I have a gut feeling it wont be sorted. Take a look at the old Desire. It's camcorder is still shooting at 22 fps in optimal light! Probably less than 10 in low light. HTC just doesnt seem to care
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Do you own a Desire(old one)?From what you say I guess you don't.With the Desire,if you set the ISO to 800 you can record anything between 25 and 30 fps,even in low light.It introduces some more noise,but not that much more that what the iPhone does in low light.Dunno why the DHD doesn't change much with the iso...
So, is there a way to record at 30fps at night?I searched all over the forum and didn't find a way.(besides reducing the exposure which makes videos very dark)
I noticed a thing that when I focus the objects aren't so shadowy because of low fps but only just for a moment like half of second and then it returnes to the normal 10-15 fps.
sergiu_07_07 said:
So, is there a way to record at 30fps at night?I searched all over the forum and didn't find a way.(besides reducing the exposure which makes videos very dark)
I noticed a thing that when I focus the objects aren't so shadowy because of low fps but only just for a moment like half of second and then it returnes to the normal 10-15 fps.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nah dude there probably is no way. It's the hardware here that's the problem here.
The problem is that the sensors in your camera need a certain minimum amount of time to get the picture to look correct.
I could tell you how to get it locked at 30, but then you would hate me because your video would turn out extremely blurry, and to that extent, so dark that you might as well have just recorded a black sheet of paper.
(This would of course come with rooting your phone, which I wouldn't think is a problem)
The thing is, its been coded into your device to reduce the frame-rate, so that you at least get a scene in a video at a bad frame rate, instead of black in a video with good frame rate
Yeah, but as I said before, there is a thing that when I focus the video there is a small interval of time(about 1/2 sec) when the frames seem to be normal(25-30).I don't know if this happens only on my device but before the gingerbread update I didn't notice this.You could try it or I can even send you a recording.And why does the camera sensor state that it can record @60 fps in light and 30 fps in dark?(according to this thread p=13510330)
I don't know very much about its camera and I don't say that I am right about this, but I want to improve the recording as much as possible.Even my friends MOTO Defy is better in low light.
Also will a custom rom improve the performance of recording?
Sent from my Desire HD using XDA App
sergiu_07_07 said:
Yeah, but as I said before, there is a thing that when I focus the video there is a small interval of time(about 1/2 sec) when the frames seem to be normal(25-30).I don't know if this happens only on my device but before the gingerbread update I didn't notice this.You could try it or I can even send you a recording.And why does the camera sensor state that it can record @60 fps in light and 30 fps in dark?(according to this thread p=13510330)
I don't know very much about its camera and I don't say that I am right about this, but I want to improve the recording as much as possible.Even my friends MOTO Defy is better in low light.
Also will a custom rom improve the performance of recording?
Sent from my Desire HD using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Custom roms dont improve the low light recording unfortunately.
sergiu_07_07 said:
Yeah, but as I said before, there is a thing that when I focus the video there is a small interval of time(about 1/2 sec) when the frames seem to be normal(25-30).I don't know if this happens only on my device but before the gingerbread update I didn't notice this.You could try it or I can even send you a recording.And why does the camera sensor state that it can record @60 fps in light and 30 fps in dark?(according to this thread p=13510330)
I don't know very much about its camera and I don't say that I am right about this, but I want to improve the recording as much as possible.Even my friends MOTO Defy is better in low light.
Also will a custom rom improve the performance of recording?
Sent from my Desire HD using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't think any sensor manufacturer can specify framerate in "dark" because how do you define "dark"? What your eyes percieve as "dark" is more like "pitch black" for a camera sensor. Especially a small crappy one that sits behind a small crappy lens. Remember that to have 30 fps, you should be able to "gather" enough light to make a properly exposed image for a 1/30 of a second. Take your point-and-shoot camera, or even a DSLR, set it to manual mode, set the ISO to 800, set the shutter speed to 1/30, set the aperture to f/8 for a 28mm equvalent focal length (if you are using DSLR, for a point-and-shoot with a smaller than DX sensor, you have to dial it even higher) and see what picture you can get with those settings. This is how much light hits the sensor for 1/30 of a second. This is how your videos will look like.
EDIT: You should not compare video recording framerate on phones that record in different resolution. DEFY can record up to 640x480 (if I'm not mistaken) which is 1/3 of the frame recorded with the DHD (1280x720). With a good recording algorithm this means three times more light per pixel (if the sensor is the same).
Loving this phone so far except for one thing. When recording in low-light, there is a significant decrease of fps.
I realize that the 28mm f/2.0 lens is the best out there so why would HTC pair it with such a crippling software feature???
I'd rather have the software crank up the ISO or lose a little exposure to keep the video at a steady 30 or 24 fps instead of the stuttering/lag effect.
Some of my videos in low-light areas are averaging 20/fps.
Do any of you know if HTC usually updates the camera software or if an outside dev would come out with a camera hack allowing us to lock the framerate?
Zexell said:
Loving this phone so far except for one thing. When recording in low-light, there is a significant decrease of fps.
I realize that the 28mm f/2.0 lens is the best out there so why would HTC pair it with such a crippling software feature???
I'd rather have the software crank up the ISO or lose a little exposure to keep the video at a steady 30 or 24 fps instead of the stuttering/lag effect.
Some of my videos in low-light areas are averaging 20/fps.
Do any of you know if HTC usually updates the camera software or if an outside dev would come out with a camera hack allowing us to lock the framerate?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
alot of expensive video cameras will do this also.
it has to slow the shutter speed to let in more light. otherwise if you increased the shutter speed you wont see anything. i guess they could add a shutter speed control to let you increase that and ramp up the ISO.
simba2585 said:
alot of expensive video cameras will do this also.
it has to slow the shutter speed to let in more light.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Shutter speed is for pictures, lol. I am talking about frame rates for videos.
I am more than happy with the htc one for pictures but for low-light videos, I would love it if I can lock my frame rate at 24 or 30 fps for my entire video.
I would rather have less light/more ISO instead of choppy videos.
I think HTC allows the drop in framerate to keep the ISO the same.
Zexell said:
Shutter speed is for pictures, lol. I am talking about frame rates for videos.
I am more than happy with the htc one for pictures but for low-light videos, I would love it if I can lock my frame rate at 24 or 30 fps for my entire video.
I would rather have less light/more ISO instead of choppy videos.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just curious, are you running a 1.29 based firmware?
Zexell said:
Shutter speed is for pictures, lol.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've never facepalmed so hard before.
Shutter speed applies for both pictures and videos; with videos, it's the amount of time the sensor (or that particular slide of film, in the 'old days') captures light for a frame in said video.
If it's low light, the video needs to let in more light by increasing the amount of time the sensor captures light for a given frame. Thus increasing the shutter speed.
Now, here's where frame-rate comes into the picture (see what I did there? ;D)...
For example (I'm not using real numbers here, as I don't know what numbers are used for the One, plus maths isn't my strong point. But...) in normal lighting the frame rate is 1/30th of a second, and it's shooting at 30fps. All's well.
However, if it's in 'low light mode', it'll need to lower the shutter speed to 1/20th of a second (again, just example numbers). It'd then need to lower the fps down to 20fps.
TL;DR: pictures and videos both have shutter speed.
Um, I'm sorry OP, can you point to the phone that is currently shooting usable 60fps video in low light?
Maybe in a few years. Right now you just have to deal with the current state of the art instead of complaining that HTC is making crappy decision decisions.
You could probably have 30fps video in low light right now. It will just look very very dark.
I'm guessing if they went that route, you'd complain about that decision too.
Sent from my PC36100 using xda app-developers app
M_Woody said:
I've never facepalmed so hard before.
Shutter speed applies for both pictures and videos; with videos, it's the amount of time the sensor (or that particular slide of film, in the 'old days') captures light for a frame in said video.
If it's low light, the video needs to let in more light by increasing the amount of time the sensor captures light for a given frame. Thus increasing the shutter speed.
Now, here's where frame-rate comes into the picture (see what I did there? ;D)...
For example (I'm not using real numbers here, as I don't know what numbers are used for the One, plus maths isn't my strong point. But...) in normal lighting the frame rate is 1/30th of a second, and it's shooting at 30fps. All's well.
However, if it's in 'low light mode', it'll need to lower the shutter speed to 1/20th of a second (again, just example numbers). It'd then need to lower the fps down to 20fps.
TL;DR: pictures and videos both have shutter speed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Gotcha. But the shutter speed isn't always controlled by the fps. On my T2i, I can record at 30fps while leaving my shutter speed at 1/30th or change it to 1/400th while changing the f stop or ISO, which results in crystal clear motion captured. I always believed shutter speed is always independent of framerates. For the HTC one, i would love it if the fps was locked regardless of shutter speed per frame or iso or aperture.
The choppiness really creates unusable footage.
NxNW said:
Um, I'm sorry OP, can you point to the phone that is currently shooting usable 60fps video in low light?
Maybe in a few years. Right now you just have to deal with the current state of the art instead of complaining that HTC is making crappy decision decisions.
You could probably have 30fps video in low light right now. It will just look very very dark.
I'm guessing if they went that route, you'd complain about that decision too.
Sent from my PC36100 using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually, that's exactly what I am asking for. The option to choose a choppier footage with more light or have 30fps video in low-light at the compensation for darker exposure or more ISO.
Recording at 720p @ 60fps in low-light still results the framerates dropping below 24 which I consider is unusual footage.
I guess I'm the only one feeling like HTC made a poor decision by not locking the fps but when my footage goes from 30 fps to 20 fps in less than 1 second, the footage is really undesirable. They could've easily just raised the ISO or aperture like the s3, lumia 920, or iphone 5 do.
Actually, that's exactly what I am asking the choice for.
So noted.
Raising ISO is a fancy way of saying turning up the gain which will also amplify the noise in the sensors, creating some very grainy video.
That probably wouldn't be very desirable either.
It's all about tradeoffs.
Phones, more than other devices, tend to have a very fluid idea of frame rate. If you need it nailed up at 30 fps no matter what, you're right, this may not be the camera for you.
NxNW said:
So noted.
Raising ISO is a fancy way of saying turning up the gain which will also amplify the noise in the sensors, creating some very grainy video.
That probably wouldn't be very desirable either.
It's all about tradeoffs.
Phones, more than other devices, tend to have a very fluid idea of frame rate. If you need it nailed up at 30 fps no matter what, you're right, this may not be the camera for you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Grainy videos can be treated or processed with filters. There is no alternative to frames that are lost.
I didn't mean to go on debates about ISO or shutter speed.
Instead of returning the phone, I was asking the community if they happen to know if HTC updates the drivers for the camera at any point or if someone would develop a camera hack that addresses this loss of frames or the choice.
Zexell said:
Actually, that's exactly what I am asking for. The option to choose a choppier footage with more light or have 30fps video in low-light at the compensation for darker exposure or more ISO.
Recording at 720p @ 60fps in low-light still results the framerates dropping below 24 which I consider is unusual footage.
I guess I'm the only one feeling like HTC made a poor decision by not locking the fps but when my footage goes from 30 fps to 20 fps in less than 1 second, the footage is really undesirable. They could've easily just raised the ISO or aperture like the s3, lumia 920, or iphone 5 do.
Actually, that's exactly what I am asking the choice for.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What are you recording in such low light anyways? Why not just go get your t2i to record with then...
AndrewAmazed said:
What are you recording in such low light anyways? Why not just go get your t2i to record with then...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Because the T2i doesnt fit in my pocket, lol.
I had an HTC Evo, and in those days they would drop frames in *good* light. It was extremely frustrating. I bought faster SD card storage, overclocked, switched to performance governor, BFQ scheduler, the works.
I searched high and low for mods that would lock the frame rate. I wasn't the only one searching, gamers are always interested in fps as well.
If that mod was made, I missed it. Maybe it's possible. I'm as curious as you are to see if anyone has info on this. My expectation is no. HTC's camera drivers are closed source and seem to defy this kind of hacking.
Anyway, now you see why, coming from older technology, I'm so grateful for the excellent low light video the One *does* have. ; )
Sent from my PC36100 using xda app-developers app
OP, you aren't the only one who feels the fps in low light video recording drops too low. I'm also annoyed by it. Furthermore I know higher fps is possible because if you record in HDR mode the fps are higher in the same lighting situation. I believe this is because it cranks up the ISO/gain in order to get double the fps or more since it needs high and low exposure frames to combine together behind the scenes. Try HDR mode and see if you get better fps. Downside is it is definitely noisier in low light, can have higher filesizes, and also the sides of picture are significantly cropped to leave some room for electronic image combination/stabilization during the HDR processing.
One other trick you can try is setting the exposure lower, this seems to result in faster shutter speeds/higher fps.
So yes I also wish the ISO and/or fps would be more controllable in the varios video recording modes. I tried some of the other special modes and no luck. Also I wish there was an infinite focus lock, so far I can't find that either. Seems like such a basic feature missing?
You will get a laggy video in a low-light scenario even you managed to lock the fps. Because the device dose need more time for capturing more light in one frame.
So,smoother = darker.Vice-versa.
FPS drop is not acceptable. My 4S can shoot in low light without any drops...so I'm pretty sure it's a software problem that can be fixed by HTC.
QuantifyThis said:
OP, you aren't the only one who feels the fps in low light video recording drops too low. I'm also annoyed by it. Furthermore I know higher fps is possible because if you record in HDR mode the fps are higher in the same lighting situation. I believe this is because it cranks up the ISO/gain in order to get double the fps or more since it needs high and low exposure frames to combine together behind the scenes. Try HDR mode and see if you get better fps. Downside is it is definitely noisier in low light, can have higher filesizes, and also the sides of picture are significantly cropped to leave some room for electronic image combination/stabilization during the HDR processing.
One other trick you can try is setting the exposure lower, this seems to result in faster shutter speeds/higher fps.
So yes I also wish the ISO and/or fps would be more controllable in the varios video recording modes. I tried some of the other special modes and no luck. Also I wish there was an infinite focus lock, so far I can't find that either. Seems like such a basic feature missing?
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I did some more testing. ISO and exposure settings only seem to effect pictures. When it comes to recording videos, we only get one set of options (slow mo, 720 @ 60fps, and HDR). I recorded a bunch of similar situation videos with various ISO and exposures and while it does change on screen, the moment you press the record video, it reverts back to all auto except for the 1 set of options reserved for video recording.
Various ISO/Exposure settings resulted in most videos looking similar and averaged from 20-22 fps. The one I recorded at 720 @ 60 was unwatchable at an average 15 fps. The HDR was well lit and had a tremendous amount of noise yet averaged 17 fps.
For comparison, I recorded the same situation with my iphone 5 on auto and my galaxy s3 on night setting. The iphone 5 had a little more noise than the HTC, exposure was slightly darker than the HTC, but was the video was fluid and yielded an average of 25 fps. GS3 @ Night setting had less noise than the iphone, visibility was darker but the video was smooth at 27 fps.
My conclusion is that both apple and samsung have coded in their recording software to NEVER dip below 24 fps while HTC allows the camera software go as low as 15 frames per second.
In a world where the iphone 5 and HTC one share the same camera technology and share the same lens, this would make sense. But in this world, the HTC has a far superior lens. A wide angle 28mm with OIS at f stop of 2.0 definitely has power to deliver better results against lesser lenses.
I truly hope that somebody or even HTC can unleash the lens to its full capabilities.
M_Woody said:
I've never facepalmed so hard before.
Shutter speed applies for both pictures and videos; with videos, it's the amount of time the sensor (or that particular slide of film, in the 'old days') captures light for a frame in said video.
If it's low light, the video needs to let in more light by increasing the amount of time the sensor captures light for a given frame. Thus increasing the shutter speed.
Now, here's where frame-rate comes into the picture (see what I did there? ;D)...
For example (I'm not using real numbers here, as I don't know what numbers are used for the One, plus maths isn't my strong point. But...) in normal lighting the frame rate is 1/30th of a second, and it's shooting at 30fps. All's well.
However, if it's in 'low light mode', it'll need to lower the shutter speed to 1/20th of a second (again, just example numbers). It'd then need to lower the fps down to 20fps.
TL;DR: pictures and videos both have shutter speed.
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spot on, thanks for explaining this to the OP. i didnt want to start a discussion about it so thanks.
Completely agree that they need to tweak the vid recording modes to increase fps. Regarding the exposure "working", I have found using a 3rd party recording app (in this case, the dashcam software VideoRegPro) it has exposure settings that do work, and not just in the preview. The upside of cranking down the exposure all the way is you get a much darker picture, but this can somewhat be fixed by also cranking down the contrast setting. You end up with a very flat looking image with not enough color, and also get some blueish noise in black areas. Still hoping a future HTC update improves the low light FPS, at least in one or two of the special video modes. And also hoping for a working infinite focus (useful for a dashcam).
I know the camera issue has been beat to death already but I've been testing it for many days and would like to relay my results. A lot of people are saying that the auto focus is bad causing blurry pictures. This is false, the focus works great but the camera always chooses a shutter speed that's to low for the lighting causing blur on subjects in motion. The only way I can get the shutter speed over 1/20 is by taking a picture in bright light. Even in above average lighting conditions the shutter will go to 1/20 or below. There is no option for metering so I wonder if LG coded something wrong in the camera drivers. I have tried every camera program out there and they all take the exact same picture using the same to low shutter speed which tells me it's not the stock camera app. I don't have the skill to dive into the programming but that is where the problem seems to be. It's the same brand (Sony) camera sensor as the SGS4 so I know that it's not the sensors fault.
Any thoughts?
Sent from my LG-D803 using xda app-developers app
Anybody else have any ideas?
I'm also seeing these ridiculous shutter speeds (1/14, 1/20) when shooting in low light indoors, even if picking Sport mode, and was looking for a discussion on the topic here. Happy to find it
I had almost given up getting the camera to do what I wanted, when I discovered that the Intelligent Auto feature actually sometimes is ... intelligent. I took 4 photos of my toddler - obviously, not a subject willing to sit still. All photos on intelligent auto.
For two of the photos, the software shot with ISO 700 and 1/15th shutter, pretty much what Normal does every time. But - the other two were taken with ISO 1400-1/30 and ISO 1500-1/30. Naturally, the latter two were a lot sharper.
This is incredibly annoying since the Normal mode only lets you manually pick max ISO 800 and gives no shutter speed control. Until I found out about this intelligent auto thing, I forced -1, -1 1/3 stops underexposure to make the camera use a faster shutter (it typically used 1/59 for some reason). Now I guess I will take 5-6 pics every time and hope the camera is indeed intelligent part of the time.
- Is there no custom camera app capable of setting shutter speed manually, and use the ISO settings available to Intelligent Auto?
- Noone's had any word from LG on this?
I will be contacting LG support about this as well, but wanted to get the XDA word on the matter first...
Cheers, Are
Just replying to say I'm having the same issue. The fastest shutter speed I've seen is 1/15 in a well lit, easy to focus shot. The vast majority of my shots are blurry as a result.
I'm running Cyanogenmod at the moment.
I'm having pretty bad shutter speeds as well. It take 2 seconds to take a well-lit picture.
Guys , Try out the Moto X camera app. I may be wrong but i think its a bit faster .
JasElS said:
I'm having pretty bad shutter speeds as well. It take 2 seconds to take a well-lit picture.
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farazafs said:
Guys , Try out the Moto X camera app. I may be wrong but i think its a bit faster .
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I'm not talking about how long it takes to take the picture, that's delay. I'm talking shutter speed, how long the shutter stays open allowing light to hit the sensor.
I have not had any big problems with this, most of my shots are pretty tack sharp, and seem to have some decent shutterspeeds.. Only in very poor light I do get 1/15 shutterspeeds but at pretty average lights I get 1/30-1/120 sometimes faster, but mostly 1/40..
My shutterdelay is almist nothing too..
I found a modified version of the stock LG G2 camera by sefnap that works with CM 10.2 M1 and produces much better results: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2522889
Some of the features don't work but overall it's vastly better than the camera included with CM.
There is also another modified version of the stock camera put up by Heatshiver that probably works even better but it doesn't currently work with CM (only works with stock and some AOSP ROMs): http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2525783
I just discovered something the other day when playing with my camera... Albeit in bright light. Check out these pics taken at 60mph from my car while I was driving (ie not the most steady hand).
What I did was set it on sports mode and then old down the camera button until I heard the beep, and then released to capture the image I wanted (ie the road signs). The one out of my car window was actually more focused than I could focus with my naked eye...
I have a note 3 sm n900.
But in my camera if the turn image smart stabilisation off the photos sre taken are very fast but they start cracking if i zoom in.. if i take a pic of a book or something the words arent very clear,i even tried keeping my hands very steady while taking the photos.
On the other hand enbablimg smart stabilisation, camera takes around one second to take a photo and the photos arr very clear.
This shouldnt be happening, right?
Whats the point of having smart stabilisation off if the photos look like taken from a 2MP shooter.
Please help.
Please reply.
I have been hurt by the community as my last problems didnt even get a reply.
Sent from my SM-N900 using XDA Free mobile app
begimaad said:
I have a note 3 sm n900.
But in my camera if the turn image smart stabilisation off the photos sre taken are very fast but they start cracking if i zoom in.. if i take a pic of a book or something the words arent very clear,i even tried keeping my hands very steady while taking the photos.
On the other hand enbablimg smart stabilisation, camera takes around one second to take a photo and the photos arr very clear.
This shouldnt be happening, right?
Whats the point of having smart stabilisation off if the photos look like taken from a 2MP shooter.
Please help.
Please reply.
I have been hurt by the community as my last problems didnt even get a reply.
Sent from my SM-N900 using XDA Free mobile app
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Are you aware of how camera sensors work?
Smart stabilization is meant to offset the use of higher ISOs/lower shutter speeds so that your pictures turn out less noisy. Given that the Note 3's max aperture is f/2.2, let's make an example.
In the daylight, your ISO can drop and thus picture quality can improve (this is very barebones, but it's for conceptual purpose). In essence, higher ISO = more noise, especially the smaller the sensor size. You can visibly see that the Note 3 has a very small sensor. In fact, even on APS-C cameras, noise performances starts to suck around ISO 3200~6400. ISO is meant to make each pixel brighter (or something to that effect), and the smaller those pixels are, the more noise you'll generate (again, not exactly, but that's the gist of what you're experiencing). So, with 13 megapixels fit onto the small sensor, you're likely going to start seeing noise at like, ISO800 (this is a random guess, but it's probably true).
Anyways, so during the daytime, there is a lot of available light, so the ISO can be reduced and exposure can be adjusted using shutter speed (assuming aperture stays the same). This improves picture quality as lower ISOs generally equate to less noise. However, as you get later into the night, less available light means that one of two things has to happen. Either your shutter speed gets slower to let in more light, or your ISO cranks up to become more sensitive to the available light (and thus more noise). Usually a combination of the two occur to get a trade off between quality and shutter speed.
A quick browse on google gave me, 1/15, f2.2, ISO 1000, as EXIF data from an iPhone 5s taking a picture at night. As you can see, the ISO is pretty high for the small sensor, and the shutter speed is quite low. As a rule of thumb, you generally want at least an equivalent shutter speed to the focal length, but given the crop factor of this lens, I have no idea what that'd actually be. But 1/15th is very, very hard to hold without some form of IS/OS, even on full-frame cameras. What you're experiencing is this effect. The low shutter speed to let in more light means that even if you breath and shift the camera 1cm, you'll get blur. It's not out of focus, but the subjects weren't in the same place because you moved, causing them to be rendered in shift. The noise is the result of the ISO being too high; the pixel sensitivity isn't that great, and so you're getting all kinds of weird colours that the phone is trying to represent without definitive data. Again, we're assuming that the aperture stays wide open under these conditions to let in the most light.
I hope you got the answer you were looking for. Basically, what you want is pretty hard to do, even with a full-framed DSLR (although it's becoming less true with recent image processing). You can't really turn of IS/OS and expect the pictures to be great. There's a lot of other things that are taken into account behind the scenes that are usually beyond your control on your phone. Smart stabilization using image processing algorithms to help mitigate the impact of higher ISOs and lower shutter speeds by post-processing the images you take on the fly. Such is the cause of the delay.
What version you're running , do you try to use any third-party camera app results may vary , did you increase exposure value, try to reser all camera setting to default
Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk
msasm09 said:
What version you're running , do you try to use any third-party camera app results may vary , did you increase exposure value, try to reser all camera setting to default
Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk
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Got it sorted out. In not so bright conditions the pictures start breaking and by turning on smart stabilisation it gets fixed. Credit goes to the last persom who explained. Best explanation ever. Hats off to u
Sent from my SM-N900 using XDA Free mobile app
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/albums/72157665297843674
I found them really ugly for the quality. It is only me or they are actually ugly. Also video are recorded in 1080P and quality really suck hard and sound is ugly. Something i did wrong?
All was at default settings.
low light conserts are one of the hardest things to shoot (moving objekts,moving lights etc) think the S7 did well here actually.
Try an iphone instead...
When taking photos in low light you need to stay steady for a longer time. Also, do not use hdr and flash on auto - use it on or off. Auto will reduce the quality of photo
Thanks for the tips..damn my hdr was on and it was really brutal so taking a stable picture was hard.
For a low light situation they look great. Ok the focus is a bit off but the longer shutter times will always have that effect.
Turn off video stabilisation(EIS) in setting when recording video especially when recording low light video because it do a bad job and make video more shaky and blurry(at least for me). You still have OIS working since it's physical hardware stabilization.
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They're actually pretty good for a cell phone. Yeah HDR is going to be an issue because of the shutter speeds involved in low light. These have the typical over-sharpening of Samsung cameras but not bad at all given the circumstances. Also... the high SPL levels for a metal show are going to be seriously hard to capture on a phone, the mic preamp inside the phone is easily overloaded. Turn HDR off, turn the flash off, find a way to get a steady shot... a monopod is great for this if they'll allow it into the venue, if not bracing against a wall, post, or rail will certainly help. Also be prepared to toss out 19 of 20 shots when you're doing concert photography. Concert photography isn't easy even with a DSLR the super small sensors in phones make it all that much more difficult.
You can enable manual mode on the camera and force the shutter speed to 1/100-1/200 or faster this might lower the brightness of the photos but it will help to stop the motion that you'll usually find in the performers.
You can also set it to the largest aperture (F1.7) in manual mode but keep in mind that this will make the field of focus very small, this would be good for artsy shots of the guitarist's hands on the instrument or just the singers face, not so good for full stage shots.
Another thing to try is to enable the RAW capture of the phone then do some post processing on the most in-focus of your images it will almost always be better than the decisions the phone itself is making.
All in all though, not as bad as you think.
thanks for all that tips, going to another show soon and i will do all these trick! i'll try to be the the first row instead of the second one to make great capture!