Database Users

GPS

Hey guys, can someone confirm that when using the GPS function it does or does not use data plan? I know some phones such as the iPhone and Blackberry uses data for GPS, and I know the Touch HD is not required as it has the GPS receiver in the device. If someone can confirm this that would be appreciated.
Thanks

Hi!
No the phone has built in GPS Receiver

Awesome, I'm glad that they don't use data for the GPS function, that would be such a killer on data. Thanks for clarifying.

A GPS by definition must not use data. There are other methods of determining location besides GPS, but they are definitely not called GPS. Note that your device, though equipped with a GPS can ALSO use the cell network for finding its location.

So in the case of the iPhone 3g, what would you call that? My dad uses his "GPS" quite a bit but of course uses the data to download the maps. I'm assuming that the HTC Magic has the maps downloaded on the phone already therefore not needing data. Also when the cellphone uses the cell network to triangulate your position, that is not using data correct? I appreciate all the responses and clarification.
Thanks!

I have no knowledge or interest in apple junk.
However, you seem to be confusing the GPS with *what you do with* the data from the GPS. In your example, to me it sounds like it probably has a normal GPS that does NOT use data. GPS does NOT provide maps, pictures, or anything of the sort. GPS provides locational information by comparing the signals from several satellites to generate information like latitude, longitude, altitude, and bearing. This is all a bunch of numbers that the typical user won't be able to make much use of, so along with the GPS itself, you have some program that *does something* with the data. If you use google maps, then your phone will pull appropriate information from google's servers based on the information retrieved from the GPS. Another program that you could use, for example, is "gps status" (available on the market, use "gps status 2" for android 1.5 equipped devices), this will display the GPS information (and accelerometer) withOUT the maps/pictures/etc., and thus will NOT use any data from your data plan.
Regarding the cell tower location method... it doesn't use any data plan data, however, that does not mean that it is free.... check with your provider for specifics. Generally, cell tower location is crude whereas GPS is fine.
Does that help to clarify things?

Yes it does, thanks for your reply.

Other questions... CAn I use GPS software without Internet connection? Or I need all time internet to magic downlaod maps and info? It is any program Tomtom style for android? Thanks.

if someone has, or does release an application that contains its own map tiles, it will be entirely free to use, but will probably cost a fair amount to buy (the map tiles don't come cheap to the developers). Also I would expect such an app to be fairly large, and (if it does even fit) would eat up most or all of the 512 MB you can store your software in.
thinking about it, they could always give you an sd card with the maps and only have a fairly small app in the phone memory. although that's another matter
As long as an app uses google maps (or other online map resources), it will cost you data to use it.

GPS settings / connection problems

Hi,
Could anyone please explain the various settings for GPS in the "settings" menu (under "location")? I find that the manual and tooltips are not very informative.
Particularly, I don't understand the difference between the first choice ("wireless networks"?) and the third choice ("assisted GPS"). I understand that the phone may use wifi or mobile network to detect my position (instead of or in addition to GPS satelites), but I don't know which of the two options to choose for this.
Also: When I enable "wireless networks", what does the warning that pops up mean? It mentions that data will be collected even when no software (GPS/map) is running. What is that? And what is the difference between enabling this and the fourth option ("share with google")?
Finally:
Does your GPS immediately start working when you enable it? Myself, I need to enable/disable GPS using the desktop widget and the various GPS settings several times before it managess to find my location. (My position is not the problem - once detected/connected, it works fine.) I still don't understand which combination of settings it is that finally makes the GPS work as expected.

As I understand the first option "Wireless Neworks" will rely entirely on data from Cell Towers e.t.c to determine your position. I guess this will be less accurate.
"Assisted GPS" enables your device to get a faster lock on your location by collecting available data from cell towers first before using the GPS receiver.
I think if you were only to activate the GPS in some circumstances it would take a lot longer to get a fix.
"Share with Google" just allows the gears addon within the browser to share your position with google allowing them to return results based on your location.
That's my take on those options.

"Wireless Neworks" - is using cell towers and wifi to locate you.
Probably they have (or use a 3rd party DB) for that. Anyway, is not (very) accurate.
"Assisted GPS" - i'm not 100% sure but i think is connecting to a location server to get the location of the GPS satellite so, will lock faster (at least this is what my Nokia 5800xm is doing).
The warning message you get is because google will (most likely) use your location (cell towers and wifi spots) to create and update their own database so, phones without GPS will still be able to use google maps.
Well, they probably do something more with that data but who knows what

I just wanna add that using any type of assistance for the gps chip in this phone is (in my personal oppinion) unnecessary. I am sitting inside my house, in my bed(with a window behind me) an in 10sec i get fixed on 10 satellites. Not much that can beat that ;-)
in addition, i am in the bottom floor in a 2floor house so it is alot of roof and cealing between me and the sky.
Sent from my X10i using the XDA mobile application powered by Tapatalk

Thanks for your replies. Much appreciated.
Just curious - which app do you use to monitor GPS satelites?
Also, does everyone's GPS find your location rather quickly after enabling GPS? I usually get the message "Your current position is temporarily unavailable", I retry, same result, I retry, same result ... Only after I disable/enable GPS several times, my position can be found.

My GPS usually finds my position rather quickly first time I switch on GPS. I have aGPS (Assisted GPS) enabled too, this way your phone gets help on locating the sattelites position from your mobile provider, hence locking onto GPS signal faster (is to my understanding).
Plus, if you're standing in an area with tall buildings, your position will be less accuratelly pin-pointed, bouncing GPS signal and all.

I'm using GPS test by chartcross ltd. Avalible in the free android market, and i really like it!
Sent from my X10i using the XDA mobile application powered by Tapatalk

I never turned on A-GPS on this phone. There is no need for A-GPS.
This phone have fastest GPS fix of all phones.

I have noticed when I am running on 3G (H) I get the "location temporarily unavailable" notice, but if I force it to not go to 3G it will be E and I get my location. This holds true if I have setting for using GPS or not.
This seems to be a problem with Google Maps using the data transfer method of 3G (H) versus E.

Turn off cellular, leave on GPS?

I go out on BLM land with my brother in law sometimes and I was thinking of using my phone as a GPS device with Google Maps/Earth.
The only real problem with this is that most of these areas have no/intermittent phone service. If I leave my phone on it will search for service constantly and burns through the battery very quickly.
Is there any way to turn the cell service off but leave the GPS functionality on, which should still allow me to use maps, etc?

with google maps you will need an internet connection(also requires cell connection)

mdram-omnia said:
with google maps you will need an internet connection(also requires cell connection)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wow, my 3 cups off coffee must not have been enough for me this morning lol. That was a pretty dumb question haha.
A quick google search leads me to believe that you can get offline maps on your phone that use GPS data.
So I think my question still remains if you can turn the cell service off and still have GPS?

astraelraen said:
Wow, my 3 cups off coffee must not have been enough for me this morning lol. That was a pretty dumb question haha.
A quick google search leads me to believe that you can get offline maps on your phone that use GPS data.
So I think my question still remains if you can turn the cell service off and still have GPS?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
my assumption is yes, it works on other phone this way
but also remember all that time with the screen on eats up the battery on most phones

http://cgi.ebay.com/Garmin-eTrex-GP...0474646749?pt=GPS_Devices&hash=item43a1a35cdd

astraelraen said:
I go out on BLM land with my brother in law sometimes and I was thinking of using my phone as a GPS device with Google Maps/Earth.
The only real problem with this is that most of these areas have no/intermittent phone service. If I leave my phone on it will search for service constantly and burns through the battery very quickly.
Is there any way to turn the cell service off but leave the GPS functionality on, which should still allow me to use maps, etc?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's a very good question. Nobody outside Verizon really knows for sure what the Fascinate's location and settings do. The three labels under Settings -> Location & Security seem to have been made up by marketing dweebs, and not defined and do not correspond to the settings on other Galaxy S phones.
Further, on other Galaxy S phones, controlling the detailed settings of the GPS/aGPS is not done from that main Settings menu at all, but from the menu of a hidden app that can usually be invoked by a dialer code. But no one I know of has ever discovered such an app on the Fascinate. On most other Galaxy S variants, the hidden app that controls aGPS settings is called LbsTestMode. The new Sprint Epic has a different but similar app called GpsSetup. Because these system apps are hidden, they do not show up on the usual tools listing end-user apps. But their .apk files would show up to a rooted user or in a system dump.
Most older Galaxy S phones default to Standalone mode. The Epic defaults to MS Based mode. The Fascinate default is really unknown.
It may be possible to access the hidden GPS menu, if any, without the secret dialer code. If anyone has a rooted phone, they can look to discover if there is an .apk file named LbsTestMode.apk (the name for the app on most Galaxy S models) or GpsSetup.apk (the name for the new app on the Sprint Epic.)
If either of those hidden system app files is present, it can probably be run by setting up a direct shortcut using a third-party launcher utility such as LauncherPro or ADW. If there is no such app, that would also be worth knowing.
It is not necessary to have a rooted phone to run the hidden app.
FWIW, I have tested the Sprint Epic's GPS in Standalone mode in West Texas, far from any network coverage. It captured the tracks quite well for subsequet display in other software, demonstrating that the underlying GPS works well. I did not have any apps loaded with locally cached maps, so I could not see maps in real time.
You should be able to disable the other radios on the phone to conserve battery, but the GPS radio itself is power-hungry if run all the time.

GPS Issues Because of Google's Resistance to Skyhook?

It looks like Google forced OEMs to ditch Skyhook, and, affording to this article, Samsung was involved. I wonder if Samsung scrambled to put together a quick fix before releasing the Galaxy S and this could explain the AGPS issues.
http://i.engadget.com/2010/09/17/skyhook-google-forced-motorola-to-drop-our-location-service-de/
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App

Isnt skyhook disabled by default? So how would this affect the GPS?

KerryG said:
Isnt skyhook disabled by default? So how would this affect the GPS?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
http://www.engadget.com/2010/09/17/skyhook-google-forced-motorola-to-drop-our-location-service-de/
Following that, Skyhook claims that Google then went after an unidentified "Company X" (likely Samsung) and forced it to drop XPS as well -- which would certainly explain why Samsung's Galaxy S phones have WiFi positioning turned off by default, unlike every other Android phone. Ouch.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

Skyhook is absolutely 100% unnecessary for a properly functioning gps. It has nothing to do with the problems on the Galaxy S devices.
Sent from Samsung Vibrant

Just turn it back on. Go to *#*#1472365#*#*, application settings, scroll down to skyhook, select on. Then wifi positioning/AGPS should be on now. Its a shame its off by default.
Sent from my messenger rabbit

so what is this going to change if i enable skyhook?? should I enable skyhook??

Not sure if this is the same for everyone, but I can't seem to access the GPS settings using the *#*#1472365#*#* command - not sure when it started, but the one thing I did do between the last time I accessed the service (a few weeks back) to now is flashing the leaked firmware. Anyone else with this issue? I found the noted article yesterday and wanted to check to see if the Skyhook option was still there, and, of course, I can't tell.

courtmagician said:
Not sure if this is the same for everyone, but I can't seem to access the GPS settings using the *#*#1472365#*#* command - not sure when it started, but the one thing I did do between the last time I accessed the service (a few weeks back) to now is flashing the leaked firmware. Anyone else with this issue? I found the noted article yesterday and wanted to check to see if the Skyhook option was still there, and, of course, I can't tell.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That dialer code invoked a hidden app called LbsTestMode. The dialer code no longer works in the leaked ROM, but the hidden app is still there. It can be accessed by the workaround explained here, which does involve installing LauncherPro and setting up a shortcut.

Maybe Samsung rushed to market without thoroughly testing the GPS on the Galaxy phones after being told not to use Skyhook. It could have been integrated into their existing firmware. I don't know; I could be completely wrong on this, but I'm just throwing it out there to see what others think. I also can't access the GPS service menu on the new firmware. I haven't had major GPS issues to tell you the truth, but my brother has to launch GPS test to make his maps work on his Epic.

cthach11 said:
Just turn it back on. Go to *#*#1472365#*#*, application settings, scroll down to skyhook, select on. Then wifi positioning/AGPS should be on now. Its a shame its off by default.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Skyhook has nothing to do with aGPS. It is a non-GPS method of location service based on a map of all the WiFi routers and access points out there. The Skyhook company has a bunch of people who wardrive and collect the data to populate its database, then offers the service to carriers for a fee.
However, the same hidden utility (LbsTestMode) whose menu can be used to enable Skyhook also can be used to enable aGPS. Selecting MS Based mode instead of the default Standalone mode is what would do that. This controls the operation of the satellite based GPS, accelerating the download of certain satellite data over the network. It is entirely independent of Skyhook.
Enabling MS Based aGPS makes obvious sense. It is an established industry standard for GPS operation on cellphones. The merits of Skyhook are another question, and I don't really have an informed opinion.

Thanks for the link. You can actually do the same thing in ADW (which is what I use), just choose "Custom Shortcut" and then "Activities" and you can scroll don to LbsTestMode. I like it when solutions are right in front of my face

So do you need to leave your WiFi on all the time when enabling Skyhook? That would drain your battery even faster...

courtmagician said:
Thanks for the link. You can actually do the same thing in ADW (which is what I use), just choose "Custom Shortcut" and then "Activities" and you can scroll don to LbsTestMode. I like it when solutions are right in front of my face
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for this, never knew I could do that with ADW

I've always had Skyhook turned off and yet when connected to my WiFi network I get a highly accurate position, even with GPS turned off. Thoughts?

jjohns63 said:
I've always had Skyhook turned off and yet when connected to my WiFi network I get a highly accurate position, even with GPS turned off. Thoughts?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your position would be coming from your GPS or from cellphone tower triangulation, depending on your other settings, whether you use WiFi or not.
Skyhook would looking for all the other WiFi locations around you that are in its database. Those locations might include your local WiFI router along with everyone else's if Shyhook's wardivers found it. But Skyhook would not actually connect to those WiFi sources. It would only detect them.

boomerbubba said:
Your position would be coming from your GPS or from cellphone tower triangulation, depending on your other settings, whether you use WiFi or not.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I know this is not the case as the accuracy circle in maps covers maybe half a block, not a mile. As I said, I had disabled the GPS, and cell tower triangulation is not that accurate, especially where I am with low signal.
Skyhook would looking for all the other WiFi locations around you that are in its database. Those locations might include your local WiFI router along with everyone else's if Shyhook's wardivers found it. But Skyhook would not actually connect to those WiFi sources. It would only detect them.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This makes sense because I tested it today without actually connecting to a network and it still found my location to the same "wifi accuracy". I had turned on Skyhook for this test. However, I'm still wondering how it was able to find my location with Skyhook turned off.

Skyhook is one company providing a service of mapping access points to locations. Google uses their own - probably picked up from Google maps car.
If you have "use wireless networks" checked under GPS - it will use this other provider (probably google) and not skyhook.

Ive turned skyhook on and off in testmode as well as trying other settings, gps is still bag of suck.Frankly i get better results with it on. Marginal though.BTW.use the lbs test mode app. It'll save you alot of headaches.
Vibrant vibrating nicely now,Kthx!

Issues with Llama after Advanced Calling update

I'm a big fan of using Llama to automate my phone based on where I am. It does this by using cell phone towers so it can determine your location without using GPS, but accurate enough for the purpose of know if you're at home or work. However, since the update, it seems like Llama can no longer determine what cell towers it is connected to. If I define a new area, and tell it to start training, it still doesn't register any cell towers. Does anyone else use Llama and have any similar experience?

I use Tasker and had a similar issue. I had to enable a setting called "Use New Cell API." Anything like that in Llama?

Not that I can see. I sent an email to the developer, hopefully I will hear back.

No response from the dev yet, anyone have any other thoughts?

dyrnych said:
I use Tasker and had a similar issue. I had to enable a setting called "Use New Cell API." Anything like that in Llama?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
BlueWRXPride said:
No response from the dev yet, anyone have any other thoughts?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have wrote several times to Llama developer about reports and bugs and he never wrote back, so I guess he is not working anymore on the project or he just doesn't care. We have 2 options from this point of view, stick with Llama or pay Tasker.

I had sent a message to the dev and hadn't received a reply either. From what I can tell, the recent OTA disables the 1x antenna, which is what Llama uses to detect nearby towers. If you turn off Advanced Calling, your phone immediately detects 1x signal, and Llama starts detecting towers again. This issue appears to be tied to an "unknown network" issue a lot of people have been experiencing after the OTA (Settings>About Phone>Status>Network (listed as unknown). A post on Motorola's forum mentioned Moto was aware of the issue and would fixed next update. Hopefully Lollipop will give us the best of both worlds: Advanced calling and a Llama that works.

Galaxo60 said:
I have wrote several times to Llama developer about reports and bugs and he never wrote back, so I guess he is not working anymore on the project or he just doesn't care. We have 2 options from this point of view, stick with Llama or pay Tasker.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Write a scathing review. Developers see those and can reply to them.

adrynalyne said:
Write a scathing review. Developers see those and can reply to them.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I was tired of trying to contact him, I have write to many app developers to the mails directly from the Play Store, and they always answer; from my point of view, Llama is now dead.

I noticed that Llama stopped working for me too after the update. I have not enabled Advanced Calling and my phone is definitely detecting local 1x Antennas as I can see under Settings > About Phone > Status > Network type and strength. However, Llama can not seem to detect any towers at all any more. Bummer.
I am a power Tasker user, but preferred Llama for location based stuff. I wouldn't be too hard on the dev though. Llama is completely free - it's more of a hobby for him than anything else. He makes no money and is not a company - just a guy with a knack for Android. So I'm sure he's got other things higher on his priority list than dealing with one specific phone's issue...

I agree, I don't hold it against the Llama developer since it is free. In tasker, does it do location based tasks the same as llama? By using cell towers rather than GPS? I'd like to know before purchasing it. Why do you use llama instead of tasker for location based things?

BlueWRXPride said:
I'm a big fan of using Llama to automate my phone based on where I am. It does this by using cell phone towers so it can determine your location without using GPS, but accurate enough for the purpose of know if you're at home or work. However, since the update, it seems like Llama can no longer determine what cell towers it is connected to. If I define a new area, and tell it to start training, it still doesn't register any cell towers. Does anyone else use Llama and have any similar experience?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's simple.. Llama has nothing to do with it.. Verizon screwed everyone up after the update... Here's what the problem is..
With location settings, you have either one of 3 options,
- High Accuracy: Uses WiFi, Cell Tower and GPS to determine your location.
- Power Saving: Uses WiFi, and Cell Tower to determine Your location.
- Phone sensor only: Uses GPS only to determine your location.
Well, most of us use either the high accuracy or the power saving option for location services simply because we can't rely on GPS alone especially indoors where satellite coverage will always be weak or unavailable..
So what happened after the new update?
WiFi no longer contributes to improving the location accuracy. Only Cell tower now is doing this job...
How does that affect us?
WiFi provides accuracy up to a few meters (usual home and office WiFi AP coverage range.) After the update, the WiFi contribution to location accuracy stopped and now we're stuck with only Cell Tower and GPS.
So if you're indoors, GPS will not be available and phone will only use Cell Tower to provide location information to all apps requesting the location. Accuracy in this case will be up to kilometers (usual cell tower coverage range) and apps like Llama which need more accurate information to perform cetain tasks, will not be triggered to peform these tasks at all.
Workaround until the problem is fixed: Change all location triggers in Llama to rely on wifi connection to certain access points rather than location (e.g. instead of work location as a trigger you can use your work WiFi as a trigger.) But this will mean that you have to always connect to those wifi networks..
I hope verizon fixes the problem soon and we have our location accuracy fixed.
I hope this helps.

Manar Aleryani said:
So if you're indoors, GPS will not be available and only Cell Tower will provide location information to all apps requesting the location. Accurace will be up to kilometers (cell tower coverage range) and apps like Llama which need more accurate information to perform cetain tasks, will not trigger these tasks at all.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not sure if that is the case. In Llama, you train it what cell towers can be seen in a given location. I have an action set up in Llama to turn off wifi when I leave my house, and turn it on when I get home. So once I hook up to a cell tower it knows I can see from home, wifi comes on. So that location capability is only using the cell towers, and not wifi. And yet, that doesn't work. If I try to train llama for a new location, it doesn't even see any cell towers.

BlueWRXPride said:
I'm not sure if that is the case. In Llama, you train it what cell towers can be seen in a given location. I have an action set up in Llama to turn off wifi when I leave my house, and turn it on when I get home. So once I hook up to a cell tower it knows I can see from home, wifi comes on. So that location capability is only using the cell towers, and not wifi. And yet, that doesn't work. If I try to train llama for a new location, it doesn't even see any cell towers.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I beg to differ.. in android 4.3 and above, apps can use WiFi location even if wifi is completely off. You'll find in the advanced WiFi settings this option.
I'm sure that Llama still uses your wifi location to improve location accuracy regardless.
And, for the sake of testing you location accuracy changes, you can open your google maps while you are on "power saving" location settings and check the accuracy (the blue circle around your location). Compare that with an unupdated phone or another phone and you'll see the difference.
I have had the chance to go to other countries after the update (roaming was used with network other than verizon and problem persists.)
So i still believe it's a location accuracy issue and not a cell-tower-not-recognized issue.

I have using Llama for awhile now and I think I may have the same problem.....
I am not sure how or why, but now Llama does not detect cell towers at all. So far, in two hours, it only detected 1 cell signal. It used to poll every few minutes. Now, it does not. I tried to decrease the polling time but nothing has changed.
I am quite confused.

Have same here, it do not poll fo cells anymore.
For problems above, you can determine location on llama on wifi too in experimental features (wifi Network or MAC adresses of AP) before i updated to 5.1 i had location fixed with small areas and big areas, big areas localized with cells and small by wifi, i moved my all tasks conditions and areas to new Phone, and it is working, but not perfect like it use d to be, Works fine, doing What it should...

i need the tower location to turn on my wifi.....