I was unable to find anything about this using the search, sorry if this is a repost.
Google is set to announce details on it's Android mobile OS today at noon. Will this affect the Hermes? It definitely sounds interesting.
Link
Industry Leaders Announce Open Platform for Mobile Devices
Group Pledges to Unleash Innovation for Mobile Users Worldwide
MOUNTAIN VIEW, Calif.; BONN, Germany; TAOYUAN, Taiwan; SAN DIEGO, Calif.; SCHAUMBURG, Ill. (November 5, 2007) -- A broad alliance of leading technology and wireless companies today joined forces to announce the development of Android, the first truly open and comprehensive platform for mobile devices. Google Inc., T-Mobile, HTC, Qualcomm, Motorola and others have collaborated on the development of Android through the Open Handset Alliance, a multinational alliance of technology and mobile industry leaders.
This alliance shares a common goal of fostering innovation on mobile devices and giving consumers a far better user experience than much of what is available on today's mobile platforms. By providing developers a new level of openness that enables them to work more collaboratively, Android will accelerate the pace at which new and compelling mobile services are made available to consumers.
With nearly 3 billion users worldwide, the mobile phone has become the most personal and ubiquitous communications device. However, the lack of a collaborative effort has made it a challenge for developers, wireless operators and handset manufacturers to respond as quickly as possible to the ever-changing needs of savvy mobile consumers. Through Android, developers, wireless operators and handset manufacturers will be better positioned to bring to market innovative new products faster and at a much lower cost. The end result will be an unprecedented mobile platform that will enable wireless operators and manufacturers to give their customers better, more personal and more flexible mobile experiences.
Thirty-four companies have formed the Open Handset Alliance, which aims to develop technologies that will significantly lower the cost of developing and distributing mobile devices and services. The Android platform is the first step in this direction -- a fully integrated mobile "software stack" that consists of an operating system, middleware, user-friendly interface and applications. Consumers should expect the first phones based on Android to be available in the second half of 2008.
The Android platform will be made available under one of the most progressive, developer-friendly open-source licenses, which gives mobile operators and device manufacturers significant freedom and flexibility to design products. Next week the Alliance will release an early access software development kit to provide developers with the tools necessary to create innovative and compelling applications for the platform.
Android holds the promise of unprecedented benefits for consumers, developers and manufacturers of mobile services and devices. Handset manufacturers and wireless operators will be free to customize Android in order to bring to market innovative new products faster and at a much lower cost. Developers will have complete access to handset capabilities and tools that will enable them to build more compelling and user-friendly services, bringing the Internet developer model to the mobile space. And consumers worldwide will have access to less expensive mobile devices that feature more compelling services, rich Internet applications and easier-to-use interfaces -- ultimately creating a superior mobile experience.
Open Software, Open Device, Open Ecosystem
"This partnership will help unleash the potential of mobile technology for billions of users around the world. A fresh approach to fostering innovation in the mobile industry will help shape a new computing environment that will change the way people access and share information in the future," said Google Chairman and CEO Eric Schmidt. "Today's announcement is more ambitious than any single 'Google Phone' that the press has been speculating about over the past few weeks. Our vision is that the powerful platform we're unveiling will power thousands of different phone models."
"As a founding member of the Open Handset Alliance, T-Mobile is committed to innovation and fostering an open platform for wireless services to meet the rapidly evolving and emerging needs of wireless customers," said René Obermann, Chief Executive Officer, Deutsche Telekom, parent company of T-Mobile. "Google has been an established partner for T-Mobile’s groundbreaking approach to bring the mobile open Internet to the mass market. We see the Android platform as an exciting opportunity to launch robust wireless Internet and Web 2.0 services for T-Mobile customers in the US and Europe in 2008."
"HTC's trademark on the mobile industry has been its ability to drive cutting-edge innovation into a wide variety of mobile devices to create the perfect match for individuals," said Peter Chou, Chief Executive Officer, HTC Corp. "Our participation in the Open Handset Alliance and integration of the Android platform in the second half of 2008 enables us to expand our device portfolio into a new category of connected mobile phones that will change the complexion of the mobile industry and re-create user expectations of the mobile phone experience."
"The convergence of the wireless and Internet industries is creating new partnerships, evolving business models and driving innovation," said Dr. Paul E. Jacobs, Chief Executive Officer of Qualcomm. "We are extremely pleased to be participating in the Open Handset Alliance, whose mission is to help build the leading open-source application platform for 3G networks. The proliferation of open-standards-based handsets will provide an exciting new opportunity to create compelling services and devices. As a result, we are committing research and development resources to enable the Android platform and to create the best always-connected consumer experience on our chipsets."
"Motorola has long been an advocate of open software for mobile platforms. Today, we're excited to continue this support by joining Google and others in the announcement of the Open Handset Alliance and Android platform. Motorola plans to leverage the Android platform to enable seamless, connected services and rich consumer experiences in future Motorola products," said Ed Zander, Chairman and CEO of Motorola, Inc.
Open Handset Alliance Founding Members
Aplix (www.aplixcorp.com), Ascender Corporation (www.ascendercorp.com), Audience (www.audience.com), Broadcom (www.broadcom.com), China Mobile (www.chinamobile.com), eBay (www.ebay.com), Esmertec (www.esmertec.com), Google (www.google.com), HTC (www.htc.com), Intel (www.intel.com), KDDI (www.kddi.com), LivingImage (www.livingimage.jp), LG (www.lge.com), Marvell (www.marvell.com), Motorola (www.motorola.com), NMS Communications (www.nmscommunications.com), Noser (www.noser.com), NTT DoCoMo, Inc. (www.nttdocomo.com), Nuance (www.nuance.com), Nvidia (www.nvidia.com), PacketVideo (www.packetvideo.com), Qualcomm (www.qualcomm.com), Samsung (www.samsung.com), SiRF (www.sirf.com), SkyPop (www.skypop.com), SONiVOX (www.sonivoxrocks.com), Sprint Nextel (www.sprint.com), Synaptics (www.synaptics.com), TAT - The Astonishing Tribe (www.tat.se), Telecom Italia (www.telecomitalia.com), Telefónica (www.telefonica.es), Texas Instruments (www.ti.com), T-Mobile (www.t-mobile.com), Wind River (www.windriver.com).
For more information about the Open Handset Alliance, visit the website at www.openhandsetalliance.com.
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I'm a freshman at Purdue University studying computer science, and my interest pretty much lays in mobile devices and programming. Just a background about myself.
I've been looking at mobile platforms. I've had some experience with using Windows Mobile and the iPhone OS, but haven't had any experience with Android. My question for all of you is, what OS do you think I, or more generally, current college students should focus on?
Obviously there's the big factor of personal preferences, but looking forward, what is going to be a big market?
The iPhone OS already has a big application market, and I do think it will only grow as the iPhone market share grows, but I fear the iPhone's market will peak before I get out of college in about 3 more years.
Android seems to be the budding OS, since its market share is quite low due to only having one device out, and for a small(er) US carrier. But I feel Android, since backed by Google, will thrive for awhile.
Blackberry OS seems really nice, but for now I think the developer pool and demand for blackberry applications is quite low. But, this means that is could peak about then time I'm out of college.
Finally, Windows Mobile seems to be, and no offense to anyone here, but the laughing stock of mobile OS'. The introduction of Windows Mobile 6.5 will help, and Windows Mobile 7 could spark the WinMo community and userbase.
What are your thoughts?
iPhone will continue to be successful but its closed environment will hinder its full potential. It is likely to reach a critical mass soon that it won't be able to reach beyond as long as it clings to proprietary hardware.
Android is likely to continue to be a niche market, much like Google Docs. Successful only if you define the term in a very particular way, but not in a "mass market" way.
Blackberry, from an applications standpoint, has already stalled and is likely to continue to do so unless the Storm can break through, which seems unlikely at this point. After the initial mania over it, it's become kind of a yawn.
You've not included Symbian, but since I don't know much about it I won't comment on it here.
Windows Mobile is not likely to increase its market share significantly, but it's also unlikely to lose much more market share. Integration with the Windows desktop/server world is only likely to become tighter, and that will remain attractive to business users.
I doubt you will go far wrong with strong skills in both iPhone and WinMo. Others are risky.
But really, you mentioned you want to program for mobile devices. With the OS's you mention you are unnecessarily limiting yourself. Windows CE is a quite powerful mobile platform that many of the largest manufacturers are basing their mobile strategies on - just not telephones or other handheld devices. There are many other mobile technologies that you should investigate and will probably give you far greater opportunities than a phone OS.
Like he said, I would definately not focus on a phone OS but rather on a core OS.
I agree with pretty much everything you said, ajbopp, and I get where you're coming from. But in terms of market share for phones, I feel that the trend is going quickly towards average-user type smartphones like the iPhone. My feeling is that whatever OS can tailor towards the average user is going to be the one that comes out with the biggest market share, but that much is obviously. WinMo and Blackberry at the moment are geared towards businesses and if they stay that way they won't own the market. I'm really looking into what OS will perform well in the mass market.
Gotta disagree with you there. Whatever OS can tailor to business needs is where the market share is at. And I don't mean the device that can integrate with Exchange Server the easiest and most reliably.
The OS that will run the navigation, climate control, GPS, etc. systems in every automobile produced by Toyota, or every transport truck engineered by Navistar, or every driver from UPS...that market will dwarf the personal communication device market. The opportunity for application development is more extensive, and the value of those applications will be immeasurably higher. They already are.
let him go with the FailPhone already...
ajbopp said:
Gotta disagree with you there. Whatever OS can tailor to business needs is where the market share is at. And I don't mean the device that can integrate with Exchange Server the easiest and most reliably.
The OS that will run the navigation, climate control, GPS, etc. systems in every automobile produced by Toyota, or every transport truck engineered by Navistar, or every driver from UPS...that market will dwarf the personal communication device market. The opportunity for application development is more extensive, and the value of those applications will be immeasurably higher. They already are.
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Well right now the iPhone has a sizable market share and is tailored to the average user, no?
And I think the OS that is capable of running the things you mentioned sounds like Android, since it's not limited by hardware or software limitations.
met3ora said:
Well right now the iPhone has a sizable market share and is tailored to the average user, no?
And I think the OS that is capable of running the things you mentioned sounds like Android, since it's not limited by hardware or software limitations.
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But it's also not standard, or well-used. You're banking on Android becoming something as commonplace as Java did so quickly in the 90s. I think that's pretty much a long shot.
Plus, you have to consider code re-use and platform diversity. Today, Windows, Windows Mobile, and WindowsCE is still the target to beat when it comes to marketing plans, project expenses, customer familiarity, legacy product integration, and a host of other considerations.
Java offered platform independence at a time when the WWW was just beginning to burgeon. Had it been developed even 5 years earlier, it probably would not have been successful.
There is no comparable event on the horizon that is likely to make Android the dominant mobile OS. There's just not enough incentive to jump to it.
As someone that sells cell phones for a living (at least while in college), I will give my perspective on what I see and hear from customers, as well, my personal feelings as a multiplatform smart phone user...
Background: I offer multiple HTC devices... the Diamond, TyTN II, Touch Dual, Touch, and S621. I offer 3, soon to be 4, Blackberries, the 8310 Curve(2mp camera, GPS, EDGE), the Pearl 8110 (Same as Curver), and the 8820 (No camera, GPS, EDGE, and WiFi), and shortly the new Curve 8900 (3.2mp camera, GPS, WiFi, and EDGE).
Customer: The majority of my customers go with the Blackberry Curve/Pearl(More Curves than Pearls). They like them for the ease of use, in terms of easy app downloading and use, easy e-mail, easy internet, easy customization with a new theme. They are mostly concerned with rock solid stability, battery life, and easy to use. Business ability plays a very small role in the choice, actually, of a BB.
Helping with business related aspects has more to do with selling a customer on a smartphone than any one brand. Also, as I am on a small tangant, BB has done a lot as of late to make their phones less business centric and more mainstream, and have been very successful with this.
As for customers that go with WinMo based devices they don't mind a slightly more complicated OS. They are a bit more tech savy. They don't really care so much about the phone's camera, as they already have a 12mp digital camera for that. The are looking more at cutting edge, from the touchscreen, to the ability to do anything with the phone. They do get frustrated with how slow out of the box the HTC can be, but they don't mind, because they are likely flashing a ROM anyways, or they don't care because it gives them more abilities out of the box than a BB will ever be able to do with every app loaded onto it.
So what does this all mean in terms of longevity? Well, a couple things...
1. WinMo has a much brighter future than BB. In 3 years, WinMo devices are going to be faster and more capable out of the box. BB's will gain in speed, but they will still be limited to essentially an 'os' inside an OS. Palm ran into the problem BB is fastly approaching, they can't improve on what they have anymore since their ceiling is already reached. That is a huge benefit WinMo has over BB, and the others, except for maybe Android, it's ceiling is much higher in terms of absoluter ability.
2. It means that whoever developes a UI for WinMo, whether it be microsoft, HTC, or someone else, that is as friendly as the BB OS will make a killing!
If I was doing a degree in computing, with my focus geared toward mobile platforms I would focus on WinMo/ Windows CE... I would also make sure my JAVA was up-to-date, as I don't see dumbphones going away anytime soon.
As for my personal preference as someone that owns both a TyTN II and a BB 8110 Pearl, I prefer WinMo. I like it because I am not affraid of technology, can customize it ten fold more than the BB, have a more complete web experience, and so forth. Basically, I prefer capability over all other aspects. And like I said already, while WinMo may lack in ease of use and out of box speed right now, it will catch up and prove to be superior.
NOTE: If, and this is a huge IF given Apple's track record, the iPhone OS becomes available for other platforms, it will explode and take over a huge share of the market, I don't think 50%, but it will be one of the top 2 smartphone OS.
pjcforpres, so you're saying that Windows Mobile will start becoming the more prominent OS in the long run?
The release of Windows Mobile 6.5 (I haven't tried it, I've since moved on to a Nokia N95 from my Tilt) looks like it's finally giving a facelift to the standard ugly interface we're all used to.
My concern with WinMo is the lack of an built-in application store. Admittedly I haven't kept up as much as I should on that, but I believe MS has one in the works to be shipped with 6.5? If so and if this takes off, I'd probably look to move into that field.
Has anyone had experience programming in XCode (iPhone/Mac OSX) and can tell how difficult it is compared to other languages such as Java?
pjcforpres said:
As someone that sells cell phones for a living (at least while in college), I will give my perspective on what I see and hear from customers, as well, my personal feelings as a multiplatform smart phone user...
Background: I offer multiple HTC devices... the Diamond, TyTN II, Touch Dual, Touch, and S621. I offer 3, soon to be 4, Blackberries, the 8310 Curve(2mp camera, GPS, EDGE), the Pearl 8110 (Same as Curver), and the 8820 (No camera, GPS, EDGE, and WiFi), and shortly the new Curve 8900 (3.2mp camera, GPS, WiFi, and EDGE).
Customer: The majority of my customers go with the Blackberry Curve/Pearl(More Curves than Pearls). They like them for the ease of use, in terms of easy app downloading and use, easy e-mail, easy internet, easy customization with a new theme. They are mostly concerned with rock solid stability, battery life, and easy to use. Business ability plays a very small role in the choice, actually, of a BB.
Helping with business related aspects has more to do with selling a customer on a smartphone than any one brand. Also, as I am on a small tangant, BB has done a lot as of late to make their phones less business centric and more mainstream, and have been very successful with this.
As for customers that go with WinMo based devices they don't mind a slightly more complicated OS. They are a bit more tech savy. They don't really care so much about the phone's camera, as they already have a 12mp digital camera for that. The are looking more at cutting edge, from the touchscreen, to the ability to do anything with the phone. They do get frustrated with how slow out of the box the HTC can be, but they don't mind, because they are likely flashing a ROM anyways, or they don't care because it gives them more abilities out of the box than a BB will ever be able to do with every app loaded onto it.
So what does this all mean in terms of longevity? Well, a couple things...
1. WinMo has a much brighter future than BB. In 3 years, WinMo devices are going to be faster and more capable out of the box. BB's will gain in speed, but they will still be limited to essentially an 'os' inside an OS. Palm ran into the problem BB is fastly approaching, they can't improve on what they have anymore since their ceiling is already reached. That is a huge benefit WinMo has over BB, and the others, except for maybe Android, it's ceiling is much higher in terms of absoluter ability.
2. It means that whoever developes a UI for WinMo, whether it be microsoft, HTC, or someone else, that is as friendly as the BB OS will make a killing!
If I was doing a degree in computing, with my focus geared toward mobile platforms I would focus on WinMo/ Windows CE... I would also make sure my JAVA was up-to-date, as I don't see dumbphones going away anytime soon.
As for my personal preference as someone that owns both a TyTN II and a BB 8110 Pearl, I prefer WinMo. I like it because I am not affraid of technology, can customize it ten fold more than the BB, have a more complete web experience, and so forth. Basically, I prefer capability over all other aspects. And like I said already, while WinMo may lack in ease of use and out of box speed right now, it will catch up and prove to be superior.
NOTE: If, and this is a huge IF given Apple's track record, the iPhone OS becomes available for other platforms, it will explode and take over a huge share of the market, I don't think 50%, but it will be one of the top 2 smartphone OS.
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Typing on my blackstone right now so will make it short. .
I definately do -not- think the WinMo OS will thrive, nor completely go out of the picture. If they manage to increase their user experience and out of the box situation it might, but I don't see this happening anywhere untill Windows 7.
Looking at your statement about WinMo users I have to completely disagree with you. The biggest share of people that have a WinMo device do nothing with customization at all, nor are they tech-savvy people. The thing that influences phone sales the most is still the outside (Features, looks, branding) before software, looking at the sale figures of let's say the Omnia vs the iPhone in Germany says it aswell. The majority of people that bought a iPhone (average-users which present the highest share) didn't go to the Apple store because they read about the fluid OS it's using, but cause it's from Apple and they had been using an iPod for so long. The biggest reason the iPhone had such a succes was cause of Apple's image in customer-friendly electronics and as a status symbol. (Say all you want, marketing-technical this is the case.)
Most likely if we actually look at Apple's record, theres nearly no chance the iPhone OS will go multi-platform. They've always been extremely tidy-up on enforcing patents and even try to go against x86 hardware Mac OS users.
Fingers getting tired now so that's all for now
pjcforpres said:
I would also make sure my JAVA was up-to-date, as I don't see dumbphones going away anytime soon.
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Lol..
Edit: What about Palm's WEB OS???
windows will be thrive i think
This is an interesting discussion. I'm a great fun of the sloppy open OS windows offers for the same reason I dwell on these forums. You asked about an appstore, which wm6.5 has (not functional yet because of the betaness). But I really don't think that's something to base future predictions on, because everyone is catching up to that right now, I do believe nokia has an appstore as well.
As for the thriving osses, I'm quite certain that the general smartfone market share is and will be increasing. People seem to pay EUR 600 to get the newest "dumb" phones, for the same money they can have a smartphone that looks good as well. I do see apple's one provider provider as limiting for Iphone OS as a lot of people are satisfied with the deals providers proir their newest phone deal and getting a simunlocked one is quite a hassle. I have had some big discussions over people who are buying what os, and they seem to believe that the general population thinks of an iphone when they think of a multifunctional phone. That being said I'm looking very much forward to windows 7 as I think it will deal with a lot of the currents uglyness and sloppyness of the phones. It will however mean that the newer WM will be "more" closed than before, but I'll guess we will manage , 12
Right now 3 OS'es are leading the pack: WM, Apples and Symbians.
Symbians will probably continue to prosper since they are still by far the easiest to familiarize devices you can ever have. But I'm sure, until symbian figures out a way to be as pretty as an iPhone or as flexible as WM.. they will slowly come out of the picture like Palm and BBs.
As long as Steve Jobs stays alive, apple will get bigger. They may not call it iPhones anymore but it's gonna be something hip and cool that would certainly appeal to the younger/new generation market.
WM will never die. As long as you have Windows PC's, you cannot kill WM. And right now, WM6.5 is heading the right track.. it maintained the flexibility and power of WM and added an iPhone feel to it. I have no doubt that WM7 will definitely make everything better. Much like what they did from XP to Vista.
Android? Hmm.. until they show more devices that can use it, yeah maybe. But I'd stick to WM and iPhones if you wanna develop mobile apps.
antrak:
I understand what you are saying about marketing and all of that. The success of the iPhone is largely due to marketing and familiarity. Nobody, and I mean NOBODY, brands and locks down their technology like Apple does. And the branding they gave the iPhone was ease of use, speed, and customization out of the box.
WinMo devices don't have that as easily out of the box. Overall, you can do more with a WinMo device than an iPhone, but it takes more to get the WinMo device to do it.
And it has been my experience, with WinMo and BB as my only 2 smart phone platforms, that the more tech savvy people go with the WinMo device, and those looking for a simpler more straight forward out of the box experience go with the BB.
At the OP:
Yes, I am saying that in the long run, WinMo will be the overall leader. Just as you see Windows based PCs as the dominant computer in the market, you will see WinMo devices as the dominant smart phone in the market. The only drawbacks WinMo has can be fixed rather easily... The lack of speed is something this community has already addressed and fixed. My TyTN II flies! The touch friendliness is being address as we speak, with Touchflo from HTC and TouchWiz from Samsung and WinMo 6.5/7.0 from Microsoft. I believe that Microsoft coming up with the solution is more likely, and is more important than for HTC or Samsung or some other company to come up with their own UI solution. Also, fingers crossed, better graphics drivers would go a long way in helping out WinMo devices, especially HTC devices.
Also, note that WinMo syncs up much better with all those home PC's than any other platform. People looking to get a smart phone are buying them with the idea that they can use the phone in place of their computer for many regular day tasks. I use my TyTN II to manage the small business I am starting up, my work emails, my schedule, school work, and so much more.
I also have a BB Pearl, and as much as I loved it's simplicity, it wasn't powerful enough or integrated enough with my home PC to cut it. BB is great at making a rock solid idiot proof smart phone that allows you to communicate with ease, and they are doing more for multimedia. But BB is approaching it's limitations as it is an 'os' inside and OS.
WebOS looks amazing, and I am sure it will run amazing as well. Palm does good work, for the most part, but they are similar to BB. The new WebOS is a step above, and will have a higher ceiling than BBs current ceiling for future ability. But it is still going to fall short of WinMo, Android, etc. in long term totality because it is too isolated, just like BB.
The advantages WinMo, and the iPhone as well, have over everyone else is that they have full computer based OS backing them up. WinMo has Windows PCs, the iPhone has Macs. As Apple develops the iPhone OS more and more, it will sync better and better with Macs, and do more and more.
As Android handsets become more plentiful, the development will pick up pace, and it will gain a following, especially with Google backing them. And their is the potential they will sync up multiplatform better than anyone else just because they are open source.
WinMo will gain in out of the box speed and UI friendliness. It will probably be a year for WinMo 7.0 to come out and catch up in speed and UI. But WinMo is already ahead of the game when it comes to everything else. Just look at the market and what is available for WinMo devices compared to the other OS.
WinMo will always sync better with Windows PCs than any other OS. As Apple works on it, the iPhone will sync better with Macs than any other OS. And as time goes on, technology advances, and so forth, the smart phone market will follow the home computer market. WinMo will be the leader, Apple will be second, and the others will still hold on to the market, but they won't ever eclipse WinMo and Apple once the market settles.
Basically, I see the smart phone market as a developing market right now. I don't think today’s numbers and trends are very significant when you are trying to size up long term trends. I believe long term trends, and business school agrees here, will follow several factors, specifically for smart phones those work out like such:
1. Usability: This has to do with speed, UI ease of use, and compatibility with other technologies.
2. Price: The more expensive, the less likely it is to "boom" or "tip" or any of those nice catch phrases.
3. Stickiness: Aka, cool factor, fun factor, hip factor, everyone must have it factor.
I see WinMo, in the long term, leading all others when it comes to usability, as it is a familiar platform that will sync better with already established technologies. It will also be competively priced, except for BB, I don't believe anyone else is as cheap. And stickiness... well the iPhone has that right now, but with proper marketing and better UI, WinMo will catch back up. And FYI, I believe sticky wise it goes 1.iPhone 2. BB Curve 3. G1 4. HTC of sort.
I am rambling and all over the place a bit by now, and since I am not going to edit, I will recap to bring it all together.
Based on my personal experience with WinMo and BB, as a salesman and an end user, as well my knowledge of the market, I believe WinMo devices have the brightest future. Of course, WinMo devices have to overcome their out of the box lack of speed and UI friendliness, but I don't see those as insurmountable obstacles. Rather, I see those as all the more reason to focus on the WinMo platform, as there is going to be a demand for talented programmers capable of achieving that goal, as well, capable of taking advantage of the wide breadth of abilities that WinMo has.
I see where you're going in terms of integration and its benefits towards the future. I guess I'm being a litle short-sighted here, as now I feel the basic smartphone user *isn't* actually integrating.
Admittedly I'm looking primarily (and that's a shortfall of mine) at my own demographic, which is college kids looking for trendiness and wow factor. But I'm willing to bet that if you asked 20 college kids with WinMo or iPhones, you'd find 5 or less of them are actually syncing them to their computer.
As of right now, I believe the general public isn't tieing in their phone with their computer as most, if not all of us on this forum are used to doing. So in terms of integration being a big selling point, I don't see the general public looking at that as highly as us as more tech-savvy people do. Now, I DO believe that when we get far enough in to the future that integration WILL be a major selling point, but I believe the near future still seperates phone from computer.
The question of what attracts people to a phone is a rather interesting one. This is another assumption I'm making, but I believe what draws people to the iPhone is part trendy factor, part status symbol and part "you can do so many things with it so easily". I'm definitely open to being proven wrong, and I guess my argument comes from pure assumption and a bit of knowledge on how the college-kid's-brain functions, but I do see the average college kid as a fairly accurate representation of the general public.
It may look from all my posts that I'm very pro-iPhone, which isn't necessarily true. We can all agree that Apple has done many things right with their phone. I'm just interested in how it gained its popularity. If one were to see just how popular it was going to become and jumped on developing apps on it very early, there is a giant profit to be made here.
That's what I'm looking for-- what will peak in the coming years?
met3ora said:
I see where you're going in terms of integration and its benefits towards the future. I guess I'm being a litle short-sighted here, as now I feel the basic smartphone user *isn't* actually integrating.
Admittedly I'm looking primarily (and that's a shortfall of mine) at my own demographic, which is college kids looking for trendiness and wow factor. But I'm willing to bet that if you asked 20 college kids with WinMo or iPhones, you'd find 5 or less of them are actually syncing them to their computer.
As of right now, I believe the general public isn't tieing in their phone with their computer as most, if not all of us on this forum are used to doing. So in terms of integration being a big selling point, I don't see the general public looking at that as highly as us as more tech-savvy people do. Now, I DO believe that when we get far enough in to the future that integration WILL be a major selling point, but I believe the near future still seperates phone from computer.
The question of what attracts people to a phone is a rather interesting one. This is another assumption I'm making, but I believe what draws people to the iPhone is part trendy factor, part status symbol and part "you can do so many things with it so easily". I'm definitely open to being proven wrong, and I guess my argument comes from pure assumption and a bit of knowledge on how the college-kid's-brain functions, but I do see the average college kid as a fairly accurate representation of the general public.
It may look from all my posts that I'm very pro-iPhone, which isn't necessarily true. We can all agree that Apple has done many things right with their phone. I'm just interested in how it gained its popularity. If one were to see just how popular it was going to become and jumped on developing apps on it very early, there is a giant profit to be made here.
That's what I'm looking for-- what will peak in the coming years?
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I agree with you in general here... I am looking into the future as much as possible as that is what you seem to be asking about... "what will peak in the coming years?"
I also agree that in general, the average user isn't syncing their phone with their computer and are looking more towards ease of use. That is why I tried, and maybe failed, to emphasis that WinMo needs to improve that aspect in order for it to pop as I believe it will.
WinMo as it is right now is not very user friendly. The UI is outdated and not touch friendly. Out of the box the phones are slow and cumbersome for the "trendy" market.
But in 3 years, I don't believe that will be true anymore of WinMo devices. I believe they will increase in speed, and thus useability. I believe the UI will become more friendly to the end consumer, especially the low tech end user that WinMo seems to miss out on.
This isn't to say there are no "non-techy" users of WinMo, there are plenty, probably more than are super techy like us. But even those "non-techy" WinMo users have a bit more tech knowledge than your average BB user.
Basically, what I am getting at is that in the long term, 3 years from now when you are graduating, 10 years from now, and so forth, WinMo has a brighter future than other platforms for the very reason it will integrate better, and its current downsides are easily fixed compared to other OS downsides.
Pocket PC's are not good with cameras, they don't have good battery life, 65 colors and no multitouch, not apps preinstalled, difficut for the average user, they don't handle games right (they are good games out there but they are old),no visibility under sun and on top of that the new models can't handle non converted videos (thanks god I have Asus P535)...
That's why the public doesn't like Windows Mobile. And 6.5 - Wow transperent bars and new start menu - nothing at all. The hope for Windows Mobile is Nvidia Tegra.. !
One thing I have trouble with is gauging how long it takes for things to happen. WinMo is behind on UI's, true, but is trying to be saved by 3rd party UI's like TouchFlo and TouchWiz. I think a lot of the problem is that WinMo DOES have the reputation of being slow and not user friendly. Of course, this reputation is due to the out of the box experience, which is very crucial.
But how long will it take for people to be comfortable with WinMo? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe most people are now buying WinMo phones that have custom UI's on top of them (HTC, Samsung, etc), and I think this will really help in the revival of WM as a "good" OS.
Now, Android is starting out with the initial impression that it is touch friendly, fast and customizable. WinMo is gonna need to dig itself out of the hole that is its own stereotypes, and I believe Android has the advantage BECAUSE of its initial impression.
Thoughts?
Hello,
I would like to know if anyone can test two apps, the only two really important to me.
Opera for android: apkpure.com/opera-with-free-vpn
ProtonMail: apkpure.com/protonmail-encrypte
I have not yet buy the phone, I would just like to know if the app works really well.
I do not want android phone or apple, I do not like the interface of these 2, too geek, not at all pro.
Can someone try to install these 2 app on his 950? And tell me if it works well?
Do you have tips for installing apk on Windows phone?
Can you please try to install those apps for us and make a small tutorial ?
The Lumia 950 and 950 XL are Windows powered phones. They don't run Android. Windows 10 Mobile has no notion of what an apk file is. It has it's own package.
Despite an excellent phone (if you don't care about apps, beside the select popular ones, and open to Microsoft ecosystem of the time), I would advice not getting it. The ecosystem is gone.
Support for the OS has been terminated from Microsoft (including security update end of last month). The phone got almost 4 years of support. It is a very old phone. Support of apps are being terminated if they are not already. In addition, the battery probably needs to be changed, and finding a good one (and not a cheap one or old production one), due to the very low popularity of the device, will be difficult. A poor or old battery results in fluctuating power delivery, mixed with the phone design flaw of not being able to manage this issue properly, leads to strange behaviors including random restarts and crashes.
The only web browser you have on this phone, are all using Edge web browser engine. And sadly, a growing number of sites are not fairing well, because the version of Edge on the phone is now old (much older than Edge on full Windows 10 on PCs), and already the web browser has a very small percentage of usage, and even that is being scrapped to be replaced with a new Edge that Microsoft is working on, which is based on Chromium engine. Keep in mind that "Windows 10 Mobile" is not "Windows 10". They are 2 different OSs. To be clear, the only similarities are some underground kernel level components, APIs, and the fact that they can run UWP apps, the name, but that is about it. It cannot run Windows executable files (*.exe). They are none with VPN. You can setup VPN on the phone if you want, which you'll need to toggle on/off when needed.
For Mail, your options is the Windows 10 Mail app which comes with it.
As for Maps, it is the same one as Windows 10, which hasn't been updated since Windows 10 Mobile was discontinued. It features old maps that are over 1 year old, possibly more depending on your region.
never buy apple or public star android
This is so bad, the 950xl have a better performance , a largely better screen quality and a largely better sound than the others Lumia or Google phones , for half price than a pixel 3 or a Lumia 8.1 ...
Microsoft was very good on hardware , specially the screen quality.
Google and Apple are billionnaires, who *insert at will* all users datas on their phones... Totally lose their minds about internet freedom place and give all datas to governement who *insert at will* people with stupid and non human laws and taxes.
You cant imagine what is it buying an Android or a Apple phone interface for me.
Hope Microsoft Will reborn and take advantage of all good skilled developers , instead of making some big browser without an well and easy dev console.
The last question is :
Is OPERA MINI old xapp file will be different than edge browser , and can it be Install with a tool ?
mayapi said:
This is so bad, the 950xl have a better performance
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Click to collapse
Hmm no. That is not true (or I am not sure I follow you). In fact, a Snapdragon (and yes that has shocked me) 670 (the one in the Pixel 3a, as example) is actually a bit faster than the Snapdragon 810 in the Lumia 950 XL. Qualcomm managed to really push performance forward over the years (~4 years). And in addition, the newer Qualcomm chips are much harder to throttle than the 810, due to their much reduced power consumption under load. While Microsoft brought some PC innovation like heatpipes to the Lumia 950 XL making it the few phones on the market with the 810 that could actually record 4K continuously without skipping after 30sec or so (due to throttling), it is still can throttle if you can take a lot of pictures in a row with little pause (due to the post processing on images) and other extended demanding tasks. So yes, at the time of release it as great, today, it is really not, sadly.
a largely better screen quality and a largely better sound than the others Lumia or Google phones , for half price than a pixel 3 or a Lumia 8.1 ...
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Click to collapse
At the time of release, sure. However, today and since a few years ago (and longer for some) many phone manufactures, add some color preference adjustment like the Lumia series has, so you can adjust things somewhat. I have to say, that one thing surprised is that both iPhones and Android powered phone still doesn't have automatic contrast adjustment to make the screen more visible to read under the sunlight. It only relies on the screen being able to be bright enough. That said, Microsoft doesn't make screens. OLED is made by 2 main manufactures in the world: LG and Samsung. For mass production product, these are essentially your only choices as a phone manufacture.
Microsoft was very good on hardware , specially the screen quality.
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Click to collapse
Yes they were, same as Nokia. And we can see that skill continue today with the Surface line systems and the XBox One S and X model (which where made by the Surface team, contrary to the first release model of the XBox One).
Sadly, while they had amazing hardware, the software was lacking, and developer support was already dying when Windows Phone 7 was released.
Ballmer monkey'ing around and screening "developers developers developers" doesn't do **** to grow developer interest in Windows when you have nothing to deliver, not to mention (at least based on leaks and rumors) complete miss management on many aspect of the company at the time. Including but not limited to different teams discourage to help other teams, have teams re-invent the wheel for something that already exists in the company, missing out on huge market opportunities, ignoring competitors despite internal alerts being raised, upper management and CEO being disconnected from reality in their own bubble, treating the company like it is the 90's while we are well into the 2000's. making the Windows Phone team fight for survival internally since day 1, lacking resources and internal political power to do their job. Forcing Microsoft employees and developers to use their own frameworks and solutions which many are rushed out, and as a result poorly done and clunky to work with, just to have a "Microsoft solution" of something that already exists in the market and has been there for years being polished and took all its time to develop correctly and be optimized. Not to mention that Microsoft never put actual effort in selling Windows phones, with 0 advertisement, and 0 bonuses of any kind to cellphone store and providers while both Apple and pretty much all Android manufactures, gave substantial returns to sales staff and companies to promote and push their device. This has greatly helped Samsung and Apple, and look where they are now.... Anyway, I am going on a tangent.
Returning back, all this has changed. Of course, it isn't a next day thing. Company culture, especially of the size of Microsoft, takes a long time to change, but results shows. When now, today, you have Windows 10 on ARM, not even officially launched, just soft lunched, with expensive, limited quantity, primarily US only, ARMed based systems, fraction of the current Windows 10 Mobile user base, has more developer excitement for then Windows Phone as a whole, shows how things turned. Heck, no one used to care about icons being changed in Windows 10 and Office, now it is all the rage. An extreme soft launch OS, already has big player interest without the company throwing any money at developers. Just on top of my head you have: Firefox, Chrome, Chromium, (and of course, the new Chromium Edge), and full VLC on Windows 10 on ARM or is in the active works.
Microsoft has changed, they are open, they actually listen, actually do serious actions to promote developers interest, knows where it can and can't compete and goes its own way, and let competition take its course, allow Microsoft employees to use whatever is available outside of the company to make great software and great experiences for the user.
So yes, I am sure that if they try again (not yet, however, later), things can be different. But there is still a lot of work to be done for the company. They still need to continue to work on their image, and shows that time have indeed changed for the company.
Google and Apple are billionnaires, who all users datas on their phones... Totally lose their minds about internet freedom place and give all datas to governement who people with stupid and non human laws and taxes.
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Click to collapse
Hmmm... Do I go in Microsoft dark history? If I do, you'll probably hate the company as much as Google and Apple, if not more. Company direction have changed. If we go by today, Apple has been much more protective of user personal data than Microsoft (and of course Google). Their business model is selling services (and one can say accessories too, based on their financial reports). That is their focus. Microsoft is complicated, because they touch a multitude of products and services, and you have products and service that crosses each other. For example, Microsoft does sell your user data if you use Bing, and Microsoft/Bing advertisement platform (which Windows 8/10 made apps can use).
However, if it is a question of trust, or "least evil" from your perspective:
You can limit what Google get from you if you have an Android device. Nothing stops you from installing Microsoft excellent and well reviewed Launcher to replace the Google's launcher, if you use Pixel device, or don't like the manufacture of the device one. You can also use the many great apps from Microsoft on Android including Edge web browser. The only thing that will touch Google is if you use Google Pay feature (which I don't think it is actually a deal braker) and Google Play Store (you could use alternative stores technically, but let's assume you want the best security mixed with a large store where you are sure to find everything at their latest versions as they are released). Same for using Cortana instead of Google Assistance.
Mix that Android phone with Windows 10 "Your Phone" feature, and you are set with a similar/better experience that what Windows 10 Mobile users used to get (MS pulled the plug on this).
You cant imagine what is it buying an Android or Apple phone interface for me.
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Click to collapse
First, let's stay professional, please.
Second, I can perfectly relate, (as I am looking at my Lumia 950 XL that I am actually using as main device), this is not helped that Windows Phone 7, 8 and Windows 10 Mobile had many features that was ahead of their time. But with Android Q on the way, and with "Your Phone" (at least if you are part of Windows 10 Insider program, not sure how it is on the official release version as of the moment of writing), feature parity with Windows 10 Mobile, and has it's own benefits and feature set that Windows 10 Mobile didn't have.
The last question is :
Is OPERA MINI old xapp file will be different than edge browser , and can it be Install with a tool ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nope. Any web browser found in the MS Store had to comply with the fact that they had to use the OS built-in web browser engine. The same policy applies for iOS devices, but not Android.
---------- Post added at 03:13 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:05 PM ----------
Personally, I am getting Pixel 3 or 3a soon (haven't yet decided. Not interested in the Pixel 4 ugly design).
Why?
-> Yes, it is Google and I don't like it, but I know I'll stick to Microsoft ecosystem for the most part.
-> Unlike Apple, I can switch to Microsoft ecosystem for the most part.
-> Google did demonstrate to me, that yes they do provide 3 years of support in both security and sofware update. I expect to get not only Android Q with the Pixel 3a, if go with it, but also Android R and S, beside the security updates and firmware updates.
-> Android has custom ROMs powered by a large and active community, so if there is anything, I can switch separating myself more from Google, and have, in some ways, extended device support.
-> Pixel 3/3a series has genuinely a better camera than the Lumia 950 XL, justifying the upgrade for me. The Lumia 950 XL did have a camera that was, in my opinion, 3 years ahead of the competition. While these days are over, it is nice to actually get an updated camera and not one equivalent, or worst a downgrade.
Toilet Paper said:
(...) -> Pixel 3/3a series has genuinely a better camera than the Lumia 950 XL, justifying the upgrade for me. (...)
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Click to collapse
Google Pixel 3a VS. Microsoft Lumia 950: Comparison
I would not be so sure that the equipment, ten times more expensive, is worth its price only because of the camera.
Lumia 950 is currently very cheap on the secondary market.
If someone does not have, I recommend that you buy this model for the pleasure of owning and using good equipment.
I am an enthusiast of the android, but I can also appreciate good solutions on a different platform.
ok google, please spy my apple
ze7zez said:
I would not be so sure that the equipment, ten times more expensive, is worth its price only because of the camera.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Buying a phone at the price of UHD TV is not a good argument for justify the fresh tech inside.
For this reason, i will never buy a phone that display a half of a tv for double price.
I think essentialy to Apple who let users think its a good opportunity to be usefull in buying a 4k display smartphone for the triple price of the 4K Tv, assumong it is less ressources... Less ressources ok but less cost also mister Cook ! :laugh:
mayapi said:
Hello,
I would like to know if anyone can test two apps, the only two really important to me.
Opera for android: apkpure.com/opera-with-free-vpn
ProtonMail: apkpure.com/protonmail-encrypte
I have not yet buy the phone, I would just like to know if the app works really well.
I do not want android phone or apple, I do not like the interface of these 2, too geek, not at all pro.
Can someone try to install these 2 app on his 950? And tell me if it works well?
Do you have tips for installing apk on Windows phone?
Can you please try to install those apps for us and make a small tutorial ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
BTW WIndows has a built-in VPN system. Android has it too, but I like Windows more.
MOD ACTION:
mayapi said:
ok google, please spy my apple
Buying a phone at the price of UHD TV is not a good argument for justify the fresh tech inside.
For this reason, i will never buy a phone that display a half of a tv for double price.
I think essentialy to Apple who let users think its a good opportunity to be usefull in buying a 4k display smartphone for the triple price of the 4K Tv, assumong it is less ressources... Less ressources ok but less cost also mister Cook ! :laugh:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have edited your post since it is in violation of our forum rules. As a friendly reminder, here is an excerpt of those mentioned rules:
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2.5 All members are expected to read and adhere to the XDA rules.
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Please refrain from this kind of language and try to make a point in a reasonable and respectful manner.
As a new member I understand that you still have to adapt to this enviroment. I am sure you understand the point of my message.
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mrjuniork (Forum Moderator)