Database Users

Been away for a bit.....about this NAND

I am reading about NAND, seems that it is basically a way to flash Google ROMs instead of booting from the memory card.
I have a few questions, I have read that it makes linux run faster and the battery life last longer, my questions are about how much faster and about how much better is the battery life vs running from the card. I am still using a winmo ROM that runs pretty good and gets me a few days of battery life, but I am always itching for something new. I tried Ion and a few others but wasnt even getting close to a day on the battery and it would hang up and/or run slow at times.
Thanks for the guidance, I just wanna do my research before going around flashing with NAND, since I forgot which ROM I am using now and the ability to find it again if I want to revert back to it.

With Plemen's Donut build from the Android Development section, I can get about 5-6 days of battery life. And I do not know about the difference in speed as I have only used this build and only on NAND.

[Q] Battery life comparison for each WM/Android combination

Hello folks,
This is my first post here so I am glad to be here. I just installed the Autoboot program for my build as specified below. I was testing the ChuckyDroidROM (which I really love for its simplicty) with both Matt's Froyo with Sense UI (which I enjoy quite a bit) and the Cyanogen Mod version with shubCRAFT 1.4 and I am finding that I am getting a much better battery life with the latter.
So basically I would like to get a reference for battery life with the tweaks here for each type of combination out there so that we can get an idea of what people are getting.
After all, I am sure that we can get longer battery life that of the EVO can we?
Thanks, Albert

as long as you put the android on sdcard, the answer is no

battery
qingcai said:
as long as you put the android on sdcard, the answer is no
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It doesn't matter so much if it runs on sd, because mainly it's running on memory of the phone and it's same as other android phones.
In ways it's even better/faster than phones nand if you have quick sd card.

Android need to access to sdcard to launch and work. Sdcard access has a power consumption ... So Power consumption is higher in Android, but when a Nand Version of Android will be released, it'll be proximately the same between Android and Wm.

agree with the other posts, but if your new here, read the posting guidelines. This section is for development only, not really a q&a section. If you click top left, HTC Leo: HD2 that will back you out to the main Leo section, from that point you can see the different sections and have a better idea where to post..welcome to XDA, this is one of the most knowledgeable forums I have come across.

I'm not convinced NAND will help battery life all that much, my battery use is dominated by cell standby when I'm not using the phone, and screen when I am. NAND won't reduce either of those.

I'm using TMOUS Energy Reference, Leo_Radio_2.12.50.02_2 and Xcelsior's with great results. Battery easily lasts an entire day.

I tested it out with the build in my signature and got about 12 hours of heavy use using 3G but tomorrow I plan to use only EDGE and hopefully get better life for sure.

There are too many variables in everyone's configuration to do a comparison of battery life(twitter, Exchange, POP, IMAP, Facebook, web usage, talk time, WM ROM, Android build etc). However, it might be useful to show what works for individuals and share ideas.
I don't buy into the "NAND saving battery" too much. It's still memory that needs to be accessed. It will be faster on NAND, but better battery life? I don't have the specs on power consumption per access but I would think an Android build that utilized hardware more efficiently would have bigger impact.
Take for instance your example.... why is your shubCRAFT using less battery than mattc?

battery won't improve very much in final versions, maybe -10% or so (+sleep)
but will never get as good as in WM, because android doesn't have very good optimized PM (even when they finish as much as it can be done). look at any android vs. WM device with comparable internals and you'll see that wm has much longer stand-up time
but hey if you take into consideration hd2's tiny batt i think htc has done some great job with hardware

I plan to downgrade my radio from 2.12 to 2.11 and I suspect will increase battery life a lot. Will post more later.
Testing the Xcelsior Sense build and loving it.
Sent from my HTC Desire using XDA App

Why does Android on the HD2 eat up so much battery

Hi Guys,
I was wondering why Android on HD2 eat up so much battery. Earlier I was thinking, that android is running of SD card...so its the case. However this is not true as in Android HD2 NAND thread its been mentioned many times...that battery won't increase significantly even after NAND install of Android, so where lies the problem...is it because power management drivers on hd2 android not good enough...just curious?
Regards

There must be a problem with your android build or you are not properly managing your battery life. To enjoy good battery life you need to disable radios via power control, and keep screen brightness low.
Current widget tells me that in standby my hd2 uses 3-7 mA. This draw is fine when compared to similar android devices.
Please provide some details on your build and your reading from current widget.

I think he was asking about how much the HD2 life in android is shorter when compared to WM6.X
If this is the case, this has much to do IMHO about how Android works in its innards.
The Android OS has a way of controlling the apps installed in it, to know which apps do which kind of stuff. Like, when a new app is installed it has a file that tells the OS all features it does, and which of those features can be called by other programs (an example is the gallery 3d, that can be used to open pictures of certain types, every time a file that it can open is accessed android asks [if you have more than one type of gallery] which app you want to use to open the picture).
With this kind of control being done by the system in real time in a way totally different from windows (register??) the OS probably need more awake time and probably use more battery.
With the same amount of time spent using similar stuff in windows mobile and android, WM really rulez in terms of Battery Life. BUT I really prefer the new life Android is giving me in HD2. I'm really happy again, feeling like I have a brand new toy again.
P.S: I'm oversimplifying the way this works, without even mentioning the services, widget services, and several other stuff that are running in the background all the time.

i get about the same battery life in winmo n androud. make sure u have a good radio n compatible rom.

mini_robot said:
i get about the same battery life in winmo n androud. make sure u have a good radio n compatible rom.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
People always say those things...
Well, let me just say that I'm using one of the best combos out there, and yes I have tested almost all combos you can imagine by my self in my own phone, so I wouldn't rely on someone else's idea of a perfect combo.
Tested more than 10 roms (the list is long so, I wont bother saying all of them, but the most used ones are there, Chucky, Miri's, VBNrom, Dutty's, and several others.
About radio... 2.10, 2.11, 2.12 and now 2.14 I have used all of them too and combined them with each rom...
Right now the best combo FOR MY PHONE and in my opinion is VBN 3.14 and radio 2.14
Multi boot, autoboot android 6sec.
I really think that what is most important is the build, with the same builds, almost all WM roms made for android, and Miri, have the same effect for me, the radios I must say that 2.12 and 2.14 are the best, and 2.14 has better reception in my country, for me.
So, as I have said, FOR ME, the best combo is resumed to VBN 3.14, radio 2.14 and any android build, right now using Desire HD 3.1 from Mdeejay with several different kernells (still testing them)
The kernels and the build are the MOST important thing after you find a good combo.
With the best build/combo and a good WM rom, doing similar things (surfing the net for the same amount of time, phone in sleep mode for the same amount of time,same time talking and etc. the best battery life is surely for WM 6.X hands down.
BUT if you are really getting the same Bat life, you are a lucky guy keep the settings you have, because I must say that I have constantly near me 5 HD2 (from friends), all of them with android now, and every single guy says that the bat life is nowhere near WM 6.x
I could go a full day in WM6.5.3 and have 50-40% remaining in the end of a day with heavy usage. Android, with moderate to heavy use, I'm happy if I can reach the end of the day, and even happier with some bat left
Greetings, Santroph.

I agree battery life is not comparable to WM6.x. People who claim they get the same battery life most likely have a buggered up WM6.x setup or they don't know how to manage power/settings.

Which App are you using to monitor power consumption?
Currently I use PowerTutor.
One time I wondered how 30% of power were lost over night?!
So battery lasts maximum one day until it's empty.
On WM 6.5 it lasts for about 2 days, like santroph already said, too.
A friend of me told me, his HTC Desire has about 80% in the evening. Do they have a better battery?
In usage I have about 540-600mW
He has got 550-650mW
So seems the same power consumption.
Regards
----
HD2

I actually get around the same amount of battery life as well. Just running the stock Froyostone 2.1 without tweaks (don't even know how to do tweaks if my life depended on it). Current Widget shows 0mA when waken up from screen off and hovers at 3-4mA with screen on and idle. Battery drop 1-2% per hour over night.

polo735 said:
There must be a problem with your android build or you are not properly managing your battery life. To enjoy good battery life you need to disable radios via power control, and keep screen brightness low.
Current widget tells me that in standby my hd2 uses 3-7 mA. This draw is fine when compared to similar android devices.
Please provide some details on your build and your reading from current widget.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have TMO US HD2 and I'm using NRGZ 21916 18Sep ROM with 2.14 radio. For android I'm using pongster's HyperDroidSense V1.1. I'm using only 2 widgets HTC Analog clock and Weather channel. I have set the screen brightness on automatic and to tell u its quite dull, not at all bright. I've also disabled all Background sync's and no WiFi or bluetooth is enabled...
I do like to fiddle with my phone every now and then...but its not heavy use, I would say its moderate.
Battery life i'm getting is by the end of day, the battery is drained and have to recharge.
Before this android ROM i tried warrenb213 CM6 9/6V1.5a which is claimed by some user's to give best battery life on TMO HD2. Its stock android rom with CyanogenMod...battery life was little better, but it was slow and it didn't had instant wakeup...it took 2-3 seconds after pressing the button to wake...and personally I prefer HTC Sense UI to stock...
On WinMo my phone easily last 2 days with some battery % (about 20-30) left and can easily give me third day too with light use on 3rd day. And by no means i'm using a minimalist WinMo setup...I have CHT v1.8.5 and the same analog clock with seconds hand enabled.
So battery life on Android << that on Winmo. About the argument that Android uses more battery due to how its build. I don't think its the reason, because HTC's other phone like Desire or Desire HD have the same 1230mAh battery and have similar specs...but there battery life is similar what HD2 gives on WinMo.

Also, you must bear in mind that comparing the HD2 to the desire with battery life, the desire is obviously going to win. The desire has been made by HTC to run Android, unlike the HD2. The desire does have a slightly larger battery (i think) but the desire has been optimized by HTC so that it uses the least amount of battery possible I.e when in standby etc.
I don't know all the specifics but this is what I've found out
Hope this helps
Sent from my HTC Desire using XDA App

^^ya, i do understand...but to me its happening like battery life on hd2 w/ android is like 15 hours from 7am in morning to 10pm in night....WinMo give easily gives like 50-60hours depending on use...desire has similar as i've heard...
Agreed not optimized, but I expect it to give 40hours with full charge?

It is not optimized I guess? I get 6-7 hrs on winmo but 5-6 on android.

We can't compare with Desire, even if the hardware are really similar when looking at CPU/GPU, RAM, radio and stuff like that, we have e HUGE NORMAL LCD screen, that really takes way much more battery than Desire's Smaller Amoled screen.
Recent tests have shown that the new desire with Super LCD (thats way better than ours) do waste more energy than the AMOLED one (despite what HTC has to say about it).
I think that we should compare it with our own phones with WM, and probably with the new Desire HD or Evo 4, which have the same Case/Screen and very similar hardware too (despite Evo beeing CDMA).
IMHO...
P.S: People say that the SD card doesn't have anything to do with the battery drain, and that nand should be the same. Well I can say that this IS and IS NOT true... It all depends on which card are you using. I have 4 MicroSD cards, and they all have different behavior with the same combo/build/kernel/battery, even when in sleep mode with everything else (connections and all) disabled.
I have used WatchDog to see if any program was strangely making this happen, and I didn't find anything at all different when the Hungry SDcard was using that much battery, it was all it's fault.
2GB class 4 -> 5-7ma stable
16gb class 2 -> 3-7ma stable
8gb class 2 -> 5-9ma stable
8gb class 6 -> 5-80ma not stable (can be ina 5-7ma for hours and suddenly be in more than one hour in 40-80ma)
I prefer to use the 16gb class 2 for more battery, since the performance is not that better with the class 6 in android.
I've tested this a lot, and retested.
Greetings, Santroph.

I think that the HD2 battery is shortened by the display (Samsung Vibrant is awesomer in that respect) as well as the processor. If I throttle the processor down to 384mhz and keep the screen at 33% (automatic backlit) then I can get pretty decent battery life from 15-24 hours?

Android Nand or SD boot. Which is better?

I haven't tried any nand android yet, but i'm start thinking of using full android w/out winmo. The reason for that its just that the performance of my android sd build is getting slower in these few days. Laggy sometimes. Not just that, even my battery is kinda drain quite fast too.. the average battery usage now is like 9ma - 20ma on idle. It used to be like 1 - 4 ma on idle.. I don't know exactly why. 3rd party software problem or maybe i got too many of software/games which leads to a high transfer rate on SD which affect the OS operation (laggy) and drains the battery.
So from your experience:
1. Which is better nand or sd? why?
2. What is the advantage and disadvantage using nand and sd boot?
3. Any difference between nand n sd build in terms of performance?
4. What would you suggest for me in order to remove the lag and high battery consumption on my android sd build?

jzack said:
1. So from your experience, which is better?
2. What is the advantage and disadvantage using nand and sd boot?
3. Any difference between nand n sd build in terms of performance?
2. What would you suggest? Fix the battery leaks and the laggy thingy? How? I'm currently using SD Sandisk 16Gb class 4.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1/ can't say cause if you have 1-4mA at idle it's good.
2/ no WinMo (advantage if you don't want it, faster boot time, no risk to receive calls or SMS in WinMo.. disadvantage if you want to go to WinMo sometime)
3/ I imagine NAND is better for battery consumption... but your 1mA at idle show me the opposite.
2/ don't understand your question...
Don't understand your SD comment. 16Gb is good, class4... hum never feel a noticable difference between classes... but all is in NAND for me.

truc007 said:
1/ can't say cause if you have 1-4mA at idle it's good.
2/ no WinMo (advantage if you don't want it, faster boot time, no risk to receive calls or SMS in WinMo.. disadvantage if you want to go to WinMo sometime)
3/ I imagine NAND is better for battery consumption... but your 1mA at idle show me the opposite.
2/ don't understand your question...
Don't understand your SD comment. 16Gb is good, class4... hum never feel a noticable difference between classes... but all is in NAND for me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
thanks for the suggestion and answering the question.. i edited something on the thread to make it more understandable.

Ok, I never made some "serious" measurement regarding anything, so my advices will be based only on my feeling.
I tried Android on SD until I convince myself that I prefered Android.
So I choose the NAND to:
- boot faster (I gain the WM boot time)
- reduce my battery consumption (I put all in NAND to reduce the SD access)
- have the ability to remove the SD with OS booted
- performance difference... I really don't know. I don't know the memory techno of the two. RAM is faster... but NAND and SD, for me the techno are close so...
What i'm close to be sure is that even if you don't put an OS in NAND it will be always powered by the phone. So waste of energy. If the OS is not stupid, I hope it has the ability to cut the power of the SD when not in use. If it's the case... less consumption. If not, the dev is stupid... and my consumption will be the same.
My feeling is that the battery life is now very close to what I had with WM.
My advice... test a NAND.
Don't judge the battery life before few days. the first days it's not very good, you can feel it only after few days (looks like auto calibration of the system...).

Second advice. If you don't want a Sense build, test this one:
HyperDroidGBXv4.0
I don't say it's the best. Comparison between build/dev are stupid as a build match a "need". The best build for me may not be the best for you.
So I like this one, that's all.

truc007 said:
Ok, I never made some "serious" measurement regarding anything, so my advices will be based only on my feeling.
I tried Android on SD until I convince myself that I prefered Android.
So I choose the NAND to:
- boot faster (I gain the WM boot time)
- reduce my battery consumption (I put all in NAND to reduce the SD access)
- have the ability to remove the SD with OS booted
- performance difference... I really don't know. I don't know the memory techno of the two. RAM is faster... but NAND and SD, for me the techno are close so...
What i'm close to be sure is that even if you don't put an OS in NAND it will be always powered by the phone. So waste of energy. If the OS is not stupid, I hope it has the ability to cut the power of the SD when not in use. If it's the case... less consumption. If not, the dev is stupid... and my consumption will be the same.
My feeling is that the battery life is now very close to what I had with WM.
My advice... test a NAND.
Don't judge the battery life before few days. the first days it's not very good, you can feel it only after few days (looks like auto calibration of the system...).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yeah same goes for sd boot. The battery life is kinda great in 1st month.. but idk why it started to lack in these few days.. the phone should be like 2 days or 3 on my average usage.. but now it only survive in just 1 day.. thats why i was thinking about moving fully on android since i used it daily..
truc007 said:
Second advice. If you don't want a Sense build, test this one:
HyperDroidGBXv4.0
I don't say it's the best. Comparison between build/dev are stupid as a build match a "need". The best build for me may not be the best for you.
So I like this one, that's all.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yeah well thanks.. rom is not the issue.. its okay with any rom.. i actually just wanted to know the difference in terms of performance and battery life between nand n sd.. u really get my point.. so there is.. guess i'll go for nand then.. thanks.. really appreciate it..

You missunderstood what I said regarding battery life with NAND. Just after flashing you will be disappointed. The battery will not be good.
After few days only you will have the real one.
I never encounter what you describe with SD build. I think I never keep one long enough (I was a flash addict).

[Q] NAND vs SD. MAGLDR vs CLK

Hi there,
I have been running SD Android builds for a couple of months, still a beginner. I'm happy with WinMo + Android SD build(s) ... however would we made any progress if we don't investigate further ...
Would NAND Android be any better than SD builds, specifically on Battery & speedness?
Would you recomend NAND vs SD?
MAGLDR OR CLK? What are the differences?
If I want to go back to WinMo ... would it be as easy as having the original stock rom (.nbh file) in a blank microSD and enter the boot loader?
If you still have energy after so many questions, one not as important (I can test myself) ... any ROM recommendation?
Many thanks to all those that make XDA-developers be XDA-developers
Pozi.

hey pozi,
I would recommend using NAND, it's a great experience. a TON better than winmo 6.5. I have great battery life, and the speed is as if the HD2 is an android device natively.
MAG vs cLK: I've tried both. The differences are:
cLK boots faster, and doesn't have a cmd prompt screen during boot.
cLK uses PPP for your data connection (MAGLDR uses rmnet). Sometimes you'll have a data drop that can only be fixed by rebooting your phone with PPP. rmnet is completely stable.
For NAND, to get back to winmo, you'll have to flash the official winmo6.5 ROM just as if you'd flash cLK or MAGLDR.
As for ROMs, it's totally up to your preferences. I've used a few, and currently I'm using TyphooN 3.6.0 because it has all the customization that I want. There are other kinds, you'll just need to test with a bunch to find what you like.

Panda_Face said:
I have great battery life
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for your answer.
What does great battery life mean for you: 12h, 24h, 36h, 48h ... ?
In average, I'm just trying to have an idea compared to my 12h on SD.
THANKS AGAIN.
Pozi.

It depends on your setup:
What accounts are syncing, What apps are using background data,... you probably know the drill.
I use an app that disables my data usage and periodically re-enables it to sync with everything. So far my battery hasn't lasted any less than 13 hours.

Hi,
im used to flash the Boyppc's roms with cwr so on Nand after have handled a lot of builds on SD card. The battery life is great (2h of music, mail and internet 2-3h and others things with from a mobile so i use 60-70%) the speed is awesome and no problems if I need to remove the card from my phone.

I have tried many roms, I change every few months ... Until I find the "perfect" ROM...
I recommend NAND.
In my opinion it's faster, more stable and less problems.
Great battery life. With normal use you can enjoy almost a day of battery.(but if you use 3G the battery dies)
Right now I'm using the rom TyphooN_CM7_v3.6.0 MAGLDR, my favorite.

videira said:
I have tried many roms, I change every few months ... Until I find the "perfect" ROM...
I recommend NAND.
In my opinion it's faster, more stable and less problems.
Great battery life. With normal use you can enjoy almost a day of battery.(but if you use 3G the battery dies)
Right now I'm using the rom TyphooN_CM7_v3.6.0 MAGLDR, my favorite.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm using the sane ROM just with cLK, thats my favorite
Sent from my HTC HD2 using XDA App

===========================================

Yes definitely go for nand. Its so much smoother and faster than an SD build. I would imagine that android nand would conserve battery life vs. SD just because nand isn't going through so many processes to make your phone run.
Sent from my HD2 using XDA App

Heck, if you really want to save your battery turn on airplane mode. You'll go for days
Sent from my HTC HD2 using XDA App

I would also agree with the other posters that going with a NAND ROM gives you better battery life than an SD ROM. For me, my current NAND ROM has a standby battery drain of 2-5mA vs. my previous SD ROM with a standby battery drain of 7-9mA. I am currently using Tytung's Nexus HD2 v3.0 ROM. Very stable and fast. Everything is working very well. No force closes or drops in data. Market is very stable as well. Call quality is very clear and probably is one of the best that I have tried. I use MAGLDR since it is very easy to use, is very stable and compared to an SD ROM, is much faster to load from off. Try 45-50 seconds from off. If I remember, my SD ROM took almost 4-5 minutes to boot up from off.

As i have just readed the posts would say that your main problem is the BATTERY thing..right??
NAND is is the most stable , fast , battery saver , that you can offer to your phone..as all the people of xda writing above me ^^.
Now if you care about battery try finding a rom thats STABLE ...and not fancy with Effects and cool weather ,live wallpapers and many many other..try getting something stable - fast - and with no much bg programs to run....!

Thank you all.
I've gone to a NAND MAGLDR ROM and I'm VEEERY HAPPY ... at least now .
Already looking to the change rom process so that I can find the one that best suits me.
Thanks again,
Pozi.

pozi said:
Thank you all.
I've gone to a NAND MAGLDR ROM and I'm VEEERY HAPPY ... at least now .
Already looking to the change rom process so that I can find the one that best suits me.
Thanks again,
Pozi.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What kind of ROM are you looking for? We can help you narrow down your search.

Panda_Face said:
What kind of ROM are you looking for? We can help you narrow down your search.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Dayly use, so:
phone + bt + wifi + good responsiveness/overall speed (actually Speed IS important)
gps (not frequent but must work)
battery life (*)
HTC Sense or SPB Shell ready ... any other fancy launcher?
Good to have: navigate through PC's internet connection when USB connected (though saving battery due to not use WIFI and not use my little 3G data plan). Maybe this can be added with an .apk ?
Thanks Pozi.
(*) By the way Panda_Face I followed your suggestion of flight mode to save battery, it did work and saved a lot of battery

There is a "patch" of sorts for GPS which makes it connect a lot faster. It usually takes a few minutes to get any sort of lock from the satellites without it. (Click here to read about it).
I'd recommend either the TyphooN Cyanogenmod or the Nexus HD2. They are both very stable, and have all the latest and greatest stuff for them. They are also well known. Their forum pages have been viewed millions (not joking) of times, so there is a lot of support. And as far as I know they both have everything working (phone + bt + wifi) are very responsive.
To help with responsiveness use just a plain old normal wallpaper. The live ones --from what I've seen--- tend to lag the scrolling and flipping home screens and such.
I use an app called "JuiceDefender". The free version turns off my data connection (3g) and periodically turns it back on to sync with email, etc. The other paid versions of this have more options such as managing your wifi and other connections. This alone has doubled my battery life.
Hope this helps!

Currently on TyphooN Cyanogenmod ... will keep an eye on the Nexus.
Thanks.
Pozi.

i use a patriot class 10 SD card running AmeriCan Android, and it is uber fast.... has anyone ever compared the speed of a class 10 and NAND??? im really curious about this to decide if i want to use NAND or not... lol, i just dont know if it is worth it to redo everything for a little extra battery life... lols...

thomas.nelson4 said:
i use a patriot class 10 SD card running AmeriCan Android, and it is uber fast.... has anyone ever compared the speed of a class 10 and NAND??? im really curious about this to decide if i want to use NAND or not... lol, i just dont know if it is worth it to redo everything for a little extra battery life... lols...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Battery life is a plus. NAND is nice because it makes your phone feel now like a native android phone. Also you get to dedicate more space on your card for things. finally, you'll be getting rid of winmo 6.5 (worst operating system ever) it killed my first hd2; wouldn't boot one day.
Android NAND is the way to go
Sent from my HTC HD2 using XDA App

I would also agree with Panda_Face, Android NAND is the way to go. Very smooth and fast. Much less memory intensive. Gingerbread ROM that I am on used a zip file of slightly less than 90mB vs. my old HTC Sense ROM using 445mB of space. Both NAND ROMs were smooth and fast but going with the "lighter" Gingerbread ROM gave me a much faster boot up time. Less than half the time the HTC Sense ROM I used. Battery life is better on NAND vs. SD. Also, when I was using Android via SD, I never realized until I went NAND, how the SD ROM was not smooth when compared to the NAND ROM I am using now.