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I was looking for a couple of threads that I had recently bookmarked to go back to later on only to find that they weren't bookmarked anymore. I spent almost an hour searching for them only to find the one specific thread in the trash. No warning or reason was given. Why was this done? I can understand if it's a thread with only a single post or perhaps even one that has become outdated (like a Cupcake release date thread) but why a thread that has 4 pages of information for a topic that doesn't have any reference for it already? Isn't this going to just create more new threads? More e-mails? More questions? Isn't this defeating the purpose of posting a new thread about a topic that hasn't been posted or stickied, if it is just going to be deleted?
If you look in the trash you will find SEVERAL Dream threads. In fact... just on the first page HALF (TEN out of TWENTY) are from the Dream thread! So just to clearify... of the dozens of different threads for different phones half of all trash is for the G1??? Isn't the trash supposed to be for SPAM?
How are these spam (just from the first page)???
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=525564
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=524956
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=519591
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=525034
There are a few more of course but I can understand because most of the questions have been answerered and it would be faster and easier if these people used the search feature. But some haven't been. (example)
Instead of deleting the threads... merge them. But of course you get stuck with a 500+ page thread that MOST people will not read all the way through to see if the question they are about to ask has been asked/answered already. Which is of course why they post a new thread but guess what? It gets deleted and so another thread gets posted. It's never ending and I realize that this must be hard work for the mods.
So what to do?
I propose that instead of deleting these threads without reason or warning, to PM the original poster of the thread to ask of the significance of it and to provide a legitimate reason and purpose for it. Otherwise give warning or notice of the possible deletion. Of course this does not exempt the threads that are posting warez, copyright infringements and other obvious violations of memberships.
This is only my opinion and I hope that I have made an interesting point or two about this matter.
Look at the Sticky "Tough Love Moderation Alert". Basically the admins will lock/delete threads they think duplicate or off topic. I can't say as I agree with their method (no explanation) but there is a need to keep the threads under control. The development forum is the worst of the problem area but all the Dream forums have some abusers.
On the other hand it is leading to silly thread titles "[ONLY] something [ONLY]" (which is silly since people who would have posted off topic before still will) and confusion as well as "What happened to my last post" threads. Time will tell if their methods achieve their goal.
JanetPanic said:
Look at the Sticky "Tough Love Moderation Alert". Basically the admins will lock/delete threads they think duplicate or off topic. I can't say as I agree with their method (no explanation) but there is a need to keep the threads under control. The development forum is the worst of the problem area but all the Dream forums have some abusers.
On the other hand it is leading to silly thread titles "[ONLY] something [ONLY]" (which is silly since people who would have posted off topic before still will) and confusion as well as "What happened to my last post" threads. Time will tell if their methods achieve their goal.
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Yeah... okay. I agree that some of the most annoying problems with the dream thread is that people do post in the ROM Development thread. But is deleting so much easier then moving to the "Dream" thread? If so, does it out weight the inconvenience of the possiblity of the same question being reposted because it was unable to be found by the search feature?
Say this post gets deleted... and it likely will be... and someone else notices the same issue... and they search to see if this has been posted. Will they find it? No. Because hardly anyone looks in the trash. So what do they do? They post it as a new thread. So what happens? A mod goes in and deletes that post. And it repeats over and over again until the mods stop deleting the posts. Then what? Nothing. The post stays and maybe even grows. Is it really a bother that a thread is over a month old and hasn't had any recent posts? Does it really bother anyone? Of course not! They just ignore it, right? So why go through all the trouble to delete it? Some of the threads in the trash are still useful and there is absolutely no harm in keeping it in the proper catagories (ie Dream, Applications, Themes, etc).
Any mod that simply deletes a useful and recently commented thread because it was mistakenly posted under the wrong catgory instead of simply moving it, is just lazy in my own personal opinion and is doing more harm then good. Again... just my opinion.
Binary100100 said:
Say this post gets deleted... and it likely will be... and someone else notices the same issue... and they search to see if this has been posted. Will they find it? No. Because hardly anyone looks in the trash. So what do they do? They post it as a new thread. So what happens? A mod goes in and deletes that post. And it repeats over and over again until the mods stop deleting the posts. Then what? Nothing. The post stays and maybe even grows.
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That doesn't indicate that what the mods are doing is necessarily wrong, it means that new members continue to disregard the rules (posting already answered questions, posting in wrong forum, etc).
That said, I think the mods need to reevaluate how and when they do thread merges. The form of discussion in forums like these tend to be "conversation" centric. However, the threads are presented in a flat format (by default). That means that merging two threads of identical or similar topics will cause their conversations to intermix, with disastrous results. People already have piss-poor reading skills as it is.
What do you expect the moderators to do? We didn't give them a choice. The Dream forums are out of control and it would take the 3 or 4 moderators for these forums 8 hours a day not being paid to police it. You want someone to blame? Blame your fellow XDA members because there are only 2 solutions for this problem:
Get more moderators to baby sit the forums or increase the quality of posting within the Dream forums. The later is what we need here and what the moderators are hoping for.
Edit: And honestly, I think this is the best method. Do we have the potential for losing good information? Yes. This is how you teach the multitudes of Dream posters that there are consequences for being ignorant. Being stupid is not an excuse.
It is pretty annoying how the Dream thread has exploded and that the same questions just keep on cropping up. When I reply I do try to either re-direct them to my signature (which has the basic links to Dude's ROM, SPL, Apps2SD, Radio etc), teach them how to search with the actual result or just point them to the right direction.
However with 500+ pages or whatever, it can become a chore for newbies to read though, even if 70% of the info is in the first page.
I did recommend to the mods that the Dream section needs cleaning up, with a dedicated sub forum purely for the established (or popular) cooked ROMs. So underneath the Dream Dev sub-forum is another just for JF, Dude, Cyanogen, Haykuro etc. That should remove quite a lot of traffic and usual questions then from what is supposed to be a general development thread for other matters.
Then I would suggest a much more organised and up to date FAQ in such a sub-forum which covers all of the same questions that get asked daily. Any such questions that get asked in any of the ROM forums would then be re-directed to the FAQ.
Most of us I'm sure have come from large forums (lik-sang, avsfoums, etc) and know how to search, read etc but many newer members don't, be it due to lack of effort etc. However I'm sure there are many genuine new members who are willing to learn that only need a nudge in the right direction. Simply blocking them off by trashing, linking them only to the search page etc isn't helpful and won't generate a positive community.
I would put myself forward to help moderate the Dream section but I know that zero mod positions are available at the moment, but I do agree with the OP that trashing isn't always the solution.
NeoBlade said:
linking them only to the search page etc isn't helpful and won't generate a positive community.
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The main problem is that for the veterans who have been here since Sept/Oct 2008, everything more or less makes sense because they have seen it evolve to its current state. It's a lot like a guy who lives in a very very messy room who can still find the book buried under a pile of empty ramen cups and dirty laundry. Thus its easy to say "use the search!" in response to any newbie query. That said, from the first-timer newbie perspective, there are a few problems: 1) A lot of information crammed into two poorly organized subforums. 2) A lot of information is outdated and is superseded or contradicts newer information. 3) Some of the sticky threads have very poorly written or maintained first posts.
Sticky threads are not a very good way to store information for general consumption, unless the original poster is a very good communicator and also vigilantly updates the first post with concise information from the entire thread, no matter how long it is. Of the former sticky posts, few actually meet that standard. The ideal format for information conveyance is wiki, but then there is the disconnection between the wiki and active development. In other words, people don't like to move back and forth between the wiki and the forum.
I know what you mean jashu, I love my "organised mess" at home ^_^
It does take effort alright in keeping threads on topic and up to date, I remember when administrating the TokyoToys forum (I since had to close it, joint decision by myself and the owner) and also organising events for fans and people alike to meet up and have fun, took effort and more often enough without any recognition as well which can get discouraging.
Certainly if the OP kept his or her first post updated often enough with information it will keep questions down to a minimum however I still approve of a well made FAQ which is stickied. It then becomes a focal point as any FAQ should. I'm actually in the middle of writing one myself and once its done and the people concerned are happy with it, I would be happy to post it here too.
Ideally a wiki would be best because its user editable however I had a look at the XDA wiki and it does need a bit of TLC.
I will qualify my statement in that I come from the standpoint as an administrator in a prominent Linux forum that gets more posts in an hour in than the Dream forums get in a day. I firmly believe that draconian administration is not the answer and makes the forum far less pleasant to use. I think of administration as keeping things civil and posts in the right forum more than controlling creation of threads. Forcing the organization into a few mammoth threads is not any better than letting users create new threads without rules.
The developers forum is a bit of a mess and completely left to its own it would be worse than it is. The Development forum is not really about development anymore though. It more of a "custom ROM" forum. It is rare that I see an actual post on development on the android platform. Since the primary topic on the forum is custom ROMs the support questions for said ROMs get put in the development forum and generates a mess. Creating a ROM forum would just shift the mess, so I am not sure that would be better.
I think eventually the newbies who are flooding the forum with threads that could be answered by searching will either go away or learn to search. The current choice of administration is not educating the newbies though, it is just forcing them to learn. Regardless of how any of us users feel about the subject though the administrators have made their choice on how to deal with the Dream sub-forums. We are just along for the ride.
The thought that scares me more than any other is that the flood of newbies up to this stage could be just the tip of the iceburg. XDA-Dev before the last year or so was a forum for a fairly small group of people who generally know how to deal with their own problems. Lately the number of users with limited technical ability and desire have been increasing. This is partly due to the ease of having the Android platform, partly due to the fact that smart phones in general (including iPhone) are becoming much more mainstream. If android truly takes off on HTC phones then either the users will have to be forceful to new users to get them into line fast or the philosophy of the XDA-dev forums itself will need to change. Linux forums have a reputation for rude users, this is largely due to the veterans being unforgiving to repeated questions. Harsh but it does work over time.
JanetPanic said:
The thought that scares me more than any other is that the flood of newbies up to this stage could be just the tip of the iceburg. XDA-Dev before the last year or so was a forum for a fairly small group of people who generally know how to deal with their own problems. Lately the number of users with limited technical ability and desire have been increasing. This is partly due to the ease of having the Android platform, partly due to the fact that smart phones in general (including iPhone) are becoming much more mainstream. If android truly takes off on HTC phones then either the users will have to be forceful to new users to get them into line fast or the philosophy of the XDA-dev forums itself will need to change.
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This and the fact that it's brand spanking new. Give it time and the kids will find something new to play with and move on while the people that give a rats arse (us) will be left behind. I've seen it time and time again on car forums. This isn't any different. The first 6 months is bliss. The following 1-2 years is absolute hell. Then comes the volume drop off and the true development. I've all for tough love but it's not like the tide is ever going to stop. We are just going to have to wait it out.
There's always methods in dealing with issues and I do agree that its more of a ROM section than Development thesedays... Hence in my opinion it would be better off having a ROM section for such people to post on, which will clear up for people actually developling or helping to improve the android platform - Most notibly the Bluetooth OBEX support.
This isn't the fastest forum I've seen or been involved in in terms of volumes of posts, however it is getting to the point where re-structuring and possibly more moderators are needed to help ease the burden. When a large number of people register and start being active, it is often the best time to set an example and indeed set and establish a community where people help people - Be it to simple things as pointing them to the right direction to much more techinical issues.
Without the ethos to help each other, where would open source be?
Granted I know nothing about Linux myself and couldn't code to save my life but I do enjoy the technical discussions that take place. A lot of this is lost with the usual questions that get asked, hence the need for a more up to date FAQ. Tough love is needed but I believe with the right organisation, it shouldn't have to be the only answer.
uberingram said:
This and the fact that it's brand spanking new. Give it time and the kids will find something new to play with and move on while the people that give a rats arse (us) will be left behind. I've seen it time and time again on car forums. This isn't any different. The first 6 months is bliss. The following 1-2 years is absolute hell. Then comes the volume drop off and the true development. I've all for tough love but it's not like the tide is ever going to stop. We are just going to have to wait it out.
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the G1 is the new sidekick. and the sidekick was such a fad and trend for kids to use as a phone. the hip hop and celebrity community did well in terms of marketing the sidekick to the mainstream public as being a "your not cool if you don't have one of these" items. also the emo/scene kids are all about what the "in" things and fads are, so that highly popularized the sidekick as well.
and now since the G1 came out, most of the people that got a sidekick for those particular reasons mentioned above, are now "upgrading" to the next newer cooler big thing.... the G1.
young people love to follow trends, fads, and what's cool at the moment.
right now, the G1 is just that.
it's a double edge for Android and the G1. the popularity is one of the key things needed to make Android and the G1 a success. but with popularity comes a lot riff raff and criticism that is not welcomed so well. but i digress lol
i just hope the sidekick comes out with a touchscreen version or something, so the kids have something new shiny to play with haha
Not owned a sidekick before but then I presume its more popular in the USA than it is in the UK? I moved to the G1 after my Nokia N95. Got impatient waiting for the N97 so made the jump and thanks to the incomplete stock OS, I was tempted to move back to my N95 until JF released his research, Haykuro and Dude. Now it feels more complete with only a few things missing.
Back on topic though, the place isn't as bad as it could be but since this is more a development forum to begin with and not a social based one, just a few tweaks here and there would help newbies a little.
NeoBlade said:
Not owned a sidekick before but then I presume its more popular in the USA than it is in the UK? I moved to the G1 after my Nokia N95. Got impatient waiting for the N97 so made the jump and thanks to the incomplete stock OS, I was tempted to move back to my N95 until JF released his research, Haykuro and Dude. Now it feels more complete with only a few things missing.
Back on topic though, the place isn't as bad as it could be but since this is more a development forum to begin with and not a social based one, just a few tweaks here and there would help newbies a little.
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ohhh i have an idea...
like when you sign up you pick the phone and platform you use then instantly redirects the new member to a FAQ or pertinent threads associated to their liking of phone and platform and at the same time directly email them a link to those FAQ and whatnot.
NeoBlade said:
Not owned a sidekick before but then I presume its more popular in the USA than it is in the UK?.
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Yeah, it's just how mrcrs described it. The Sidekick became quite the fashion accessory model when celebrities started picking them up. They are pictured all over the tabloids and mentioned a lot of times in up-start musician's songs. I doubt very much that it would have panned out this way if T-Mobile released the SideKick 3G before the G1 but then again, T-Mobile needed a victory and a halo phone really fast.
That would take a fair amount of modification to the forum files to do (I've done my fair share of phpBB, phpBB Plus, IPB etc) and also is on the pretence that every single mobile has a suitable FAQ to begin with.
And easier way and modification to the forum could be to send a general stock welcoming PM along with a reminder to search and any additional helpful links within. That is, if XDA wants to go down that route.
NeoBlade said:
That would take a fair amount of modification to the forum files to do (I've done my fair share of phpBB, phpBB Plus, IPB etc) and also is on the pretence that every single mobile has a suitable FAQ to begin with.
And easier way and modification to the forum could be to send a general stock welcoming PM along with a reminder to search and any additional helpful links within. That is, if XDA wants to go down that route.
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whenever i join forums and in my inbox i get a message automatically, which is usually from the forum itself, i usually disregard it because all it is a "welcome to xyz forums... yada yada yada... enjoy your time here"
i usually don't open and read it, delete it then... go wreck havoc on finding out the information i want to know or read about. but that's just me
JanetPanic said:
This is partly due to the ease of having the Android platform, partly due to the fact that smart phones in general (including iPhone) are becoming much more mainstream. If android truly takes off on HTC phones then either the users will have to be forceful to new users to get them into line fast or the philosophy of the XDA-dev forums itself will need to change.
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To get a glimpse of where Dream/Magic forum is headed, just look at the xda Winmo forums. "Development" in this case basically just means rom customization. It's already pretty much at that state here too. Of course if Android fulfills its promise of being a mainstream smartphone OS, there will be many more newbies here than there ever were on the Winmo forums (you don't see many kids rocking Touch Diamonds).
Linux forums have a reputation for rude users, this is largely due to the veterans being unforgiving to repeated questions. Harsh but it does work over time.
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IMO there's nothing wrong with being a bit curt, especially in the "development" forum. This isn't an interactive tutorial, a hand-holding journey. Too many people seem to get the idea that the unsupported hacks enabled by rooting can be generalized and simplified for mass-market consumption. That kind of thinking is faulty and the resulting bad publicity may jeopardize the Android hacking community on the whole.
The problem is that in most cases, being rude only keeps away users who had initial reservations and cautions to rooting-- precisely the kind of user who actually might take the time to indepedently and/or responsibly learn how to do things properly.
jashsu said:
To get a glimpse of where Dream/Magic forum is headed, just look at the xda Winmo forums. "Development" in this case basically just means rom customization. It's already pretty much at that state here too. Of course if Android fulfills its promise of being a mainstream smartphone OS, there will be many more newbies here than there ever were on the Winmo forums (you don't see many kids rocking Touch Diamonds).
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I have been here since 2005 with the Blue Angel (then the Wizard, Jam, Magician, and the Artemis). Eventually XDA started dedicating a subforum to ROMs with the general development thread up top for WinMo development. The Dream right now just has the one combined forum. Another difference is that the ROM threads in Dream seem to grow faster than I remember on the WinMo threads. I am not sure what the difference is, maybe that usually there are a couple debug threads that die out which in the Dream forum is discouraged. Regardless the rapid posting makes it harder to keep up with more than one ROM.
jashsu said:
IMO there's nothing wrong with being a bit curt, especially in the "development" forum. This isn't an interactive tutorial, a hand-holding journey. Too many people seem to get the idea that the unsupported hacks enabled by rooting can be generalized and simplified for mass-market consumption. That kind of thinking is faulty and the resulting bad publicity may jeopardize the Android hacking community on the whole.
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I agree, well put.
jashsu said:
The problem is that in most cases, being rude only keeps away users who had initial reservations and cautions to rooting-- precisely the kind of user who actually might take the time to indepedently and/or responsibly learn how to do things properly.
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Good point as well.
In the last time, we have many closed treads here. Some new user are asking something. The second answer is mostly: " Come on you don`t search, or something else. The third answer is from the mod: Closed Tread.
Sorry, but in the mean time, this is a german "kindergarten".
Do we have not so many space on the server, or why is this in the last time so often happened ? Let the tread open, and if someone is giving a answer, he can do that, and the other people can read or laugh.
NEO130 said:
In the last time, we have many closed treads here. Some new user are asking something. The second answer is mostly: " Come on you don`t search, or something else. The third answer is from the mod: Closed Tread.
Sorry, but in the mean time, this is a german "kindergarten".
Do we have not so many space on the server, or why is this in the last time so often happened ? Let the tread open, and if someone is giving a answer, he can do that, and the other people can read or laugh.
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I don't agree, since this forum is very large (2,385,084 members and 404,458 threads). To prevent it from cluttering, but also to keep the forum clean and easy to find the information you need I find it necessary to close and or move threads which are obsolete/duplicate and threads which are clearly opened without searching.
So I am glad we (Xperia subforums) have an active moderator who is keeping a close eye on the subforums.
I find that it does wonders for the clearness of the subforums!
Agreed, when I look for a solution for a problem, I want the [FIX] topic instead of dozens of 'My ... is broken, help meee!'-topics..
NEO130 said:
In the last time, we have many closed treads here. Some new user are asking something. The second answer is mostly: " Come on you don`t search, or something else. The third answer is from the mod: Closed Tread.
Sorry, but in the mean time, this is a german "kindergarten".
Do we have not so many space on the server, or why is this in the last time so often happened ? Let the tread open, and if someone is giving a answer, he can do that, and the other people can read or laugh.
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not many answers yet, what a shame...
ok, I'd like to add my point of view to be considered and commented on
the last months (nearly all of the time I'm a member here) the X1 forums got very little moderating activity, mostly because those moderators assigned to this part either got a new device and "moved" on and/or focused their activity on development/cooking
the little moderating that took place within that time happened when one of the other moderators "visited" here or were personally notified to interact on one behalf or the other
I'm and have been quite active especially on X1, trying to help, now on a somewhat larger scale, so it's small wonder moderating activity increased significantly after my nomination
in contrast to the last months this might appear a lot of interaction from me on behalf of the forum, in my opinion it's now on a reasonable/normal level
I'm doing nothing than abiding by and ensuring the forum rules, which I'm sure everyone here read at least once...
in case you think my actions unjustified, tell me about it
I've seen lots of threads opened on issues raised and successfully answered numerous times already, some even still on the same page as the new one
a lot of my previous posts derive from helping with other members questions whose answer I often had to research myself...which I did...and I then often wondered: when I'm able to find the solution (mostly within minutes) why didn't the one who opened that new thread find it him-/herself? no search? to cursory search? too lazy?...
this all adds up and we are not only talking about X1, it's all over the forum so it's not as limited as (only) talking about server capacity, we are especially talking about misleading search results, cluttered forums, untidiness, confusion, forum losing appeal to users... and all that's related
keeping threads open would/will/did lead to off-topic comments, adding to above mentioned problems
I like a good joke/funny comment as anyone here, but that's usually not dev/app/theme related and normally does not belong there (at least not on a noticeable scale)
if you are interested in that kind of threads/discussions visit forum general discussion and it's subs (like off-topic)
I also think you haven't been in a German kindergarten for some time, they have a good set of rules there, too, for the kids as well as for the grow-ups
so, comments/opinions/feedback pls
Mod edit: not dev related, moved to general
DK you said it all, and I completely agree.
A perfect example is what is happening in the Android development board for the Sony Ericsson X10. Without the mods moving and closing topics, it would become a clutter of useless threads making the good threads lost. Even now there are more threads moved or closed than open
Even your current post does not follow the guidelines as to how the title should look...
tnyynt said:
For questions, use:
[Q]description
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Things are surprisingly simple and straightforward here: pay attention, read, search and search again prior to asking/posting. Nobody wants to do someone else's research. Between the stickies on each board, forum rules, moderator's announcements and extremely helpful mods like DK, there really should be no confusion one
Likewise, any post I have seen made by DK have been polite, respectful and always points the user in the correct direction prior to closing threads.
So thank you to all mods for cleaning up the forums!
Considering this is XDA-Developers (a developer based community) I believe most users should stay silent (since they are not developers) unless it is helpful to the community. I myself personally really do not like sifting through threads asking the same questions that are answered it in the stickies
.
reading instead of asking
hei all!
first: i agree to dk and muo.
why?
why are we here? we use a fine peace of hardware and are unsatisfied with the software of SE and MS and we are more ore less tech geeks.
the original x1 with wm6.1 and panels does anything a phone has to do and much more.
but if you decide that is not enough and flash a custom rom (and to loose your warranty if you dont restore stock spl) is'nt it reasonable to learn sth about what you are doing? at least the different roms, the different ways of flashing.
i'm a "dumb user", i dont know much about cooking and to be honest im to lazy to do this but im so happy about the great work of all the devs here. i tried many roms in GER and WWE, in sense2.1 or 2.5, clean roms and others with lots of apps, i use uc and sashimi and this is my second post. why? because i read the great tutorials and use the search function and i found ALWAYS a solution for my problem.
a question like "i flashed R3AA013. why do i still have wm6.1?" is unnessesary.
to cut it short my opinion is: be willing to learn a little bit about what you are doing or leave your x1 as it is!
cheers!
(and sorry for my poor english...)
The best way to clear up user confusion is to post a link to a wiki at the top of the device forum. Closing threads doesn't answer any questions or make searches easier. It makes them more difficult as before you would have maybe a link to an old thread or some helpful search terms mixed into newbie questions, but instead you have a whole mess of unanswered closed questions and one answer thrown into that haystack.
Btw, "I, myself, personally..."? Are you kidding me? You may as well just say "I and me, and Muo.." if you want to be that ridiculously redundant.
Thx - That`s what I mean with this tread !!
sonus said:
The best way to clear up user confusion is to post a link to a wiki at the top of the device forum.
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It already is, the announcement at the top has multiple links including the wiki...
sonus said:
Closing threads doesn't answer any questions or make searches easier.
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Actually they do, when I see the "closed thread icon" I know to not go in there. Likewise, if there is a "moved thread icon" I know that it has nothing to do with the board I am in. Seems like that answers my questions of reading the thread or not.
Speaking of redundant and ridiculously...
sonus said:
Btw, "I, myself, personally..."? Are you kidding me? You may as well just say "I and me, and Muo.." if you want to be that ridiculously redundant.
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Not really, "I myself personally" is perfectly fine. Yes it is a bit redundant, and I apologize for making you read one extra word. Forget about sentence structure and stop trying to flame, there was no reason for that. Also if you are going to quote me, do it correctly without the commas. How you quoted me is worse than how I presented it in the first place.
.
I know I am gonna sound like a jerk, but I am a jerk most of the time, so what ..
I suggest that we refuse to answer Questions that are posted in the wrong Forum ...
The Stickies clearly state what to post where ...
If you have a question about an app, and it is not an app that has its own thread in "Themes and Apps" it Goes in "Q&A"
If you have a question about how to flash a ROM, it does not go in the ROM thread, that thread is for ROM developers to post their ROMs
If you have a question about a specific ROM it does NOT go in the Q&A it goes in the ROM thread or wherever that Chef wants you to post it ....
If you want to know how to install a Theme or a Mod, it goes in the Q&A , questions about a specific Theme or App it goes in the thread for them.
Now I know that the people that this actually pertains to will not even read this this post, so I leave it up to those that waste their time wading through senseless threads that are in the wrong place and constantly having to tell people to move things around, to decide to help police it..
We are a community, we cannot just say, "Let the Mods handle it..." There are way more of us than there are of them.
I could rant on this subject for hours but you get the point ....
Now not saying if it is the persons 1st or 2nd post that they should be pounced on, but should be nudged with whatever amount of force is needed to get them to understand.
The mods have enough problems to deal with, we should all be intelligent enough to, read the rules , read the stickies, and use some common sense ...
Thanks ....
Mods Please delete this if you feel it is over the top ..........
EDIT:
This really is a site wide issue not just picking on the LEO forum, but I am in this one 99.8925674% of the time, so figured I'd put my soapbox down here ...
While I agree with everything your saying Im not sure if ignoring the posts will do any good, they'll just end up posting again 20 minutes later asking why nobodys responding to them.........
I've not been around here all that long but I get the impression that this epidemic of repetitive questions and pointless threads is a fairly recent thing and is getting worse and worse...... No doubt this is due to so called "smartphones" being made more readily available to dumbasses, myself included.
The only reason I ever ended up visiting XDA was because I had a problem with my shiny new windows mobile and google directed me here as I'm sure it does to hundreds of people on a daily basis.
I dont really think that there is any sure way to reduce the amount of pointlessness thats occuring.
Perhaps a 24 waiting period between registering and being able to post might encourage those who turn up for the first time to search before posting.
Unfortunately we have to put up with the fact that 94.6% of the worlds populations are just dicks.............
conantroutman said:
While I agree with everything your saying Im not sure if ignoring the posts will do any good, they'll just end up posting again 20 minutes later asking why nobodys responding to them.........
I've not been around here all that long but I get the impression that this epidemic of repetitive questions and pointless threads is a fairly recent thing and is getting worse and worse...... No doubt this is due to so called "smartphones" being made more readily available to dumbasses, myself included.
The only reason I ever ended up visiting XDA was because I had a problem with my shiny new windows mobile and google directed me here as I'm sure it does to hundreds of people on a daily basis.
I dont really think that there is any sure way to reduce the amount of pointlessness thats occuring.
Perhaps a 24 waiting period between registering and being able to post might encourage those who turn up for the first time to search before posting.
Unfortunately we have to put up with the fact that 94.6% of the worlds populations are just dicks.............
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I know nothing may change, but I can always hope, I agree with the 94.6% thing fully ....
But if they keep posting the same question over and over THEN it does fall in the Mods domain as spamming , and the mods can handle it with legitimate reason.
I mean simple things, like posting in the wrong forum/thread , it is like walking into a bakery and asking them to change the oil in your car , I mean what kind of person does it take to do a bonehead move like that ...
Oh and I am not saying to really to ignore the posts, because people might learn if a few people hit their thread in the wrong place, and tell them they have the answers but will not answer it because it is in the wrong thread, I know that is being a ****, but , sometimes teaching means writing the lesson on a big stick and smacking them with it till they get the message ..
watcher64 said:
I know nothing may change, but I can always hope, I agree with the 94.6% thing fully ....
But if they keep posting the same question over and over THEN it does fall in the Mods domain as spamming , and the mods can handle it with legitimate reason.
I mean simple things, like posting in the wrong forum/thread , it is like walking into a bakery and asking them to change the oil in your car , I mean what kind of person does it take to do a bonehead move like that ...
Oh and I am not saying to really to ignore the posts, because people might learn if a few people hit their thread in the wrong place, and tell them they have the answers but will not answer it because it is in the wrong thread, I know that is being a ****, but , sometimes teaching means writing the lesson on a big stick and smacking them with it till they get the message ..
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One reason we (and I refer to new folks like me) have a difficulty with this (well I do, any road up) is that the thread header, or whatever they're called are so full of guff.. unnecessary messing about with symbols and other distracting crapola. I for one am looking for another theme to replace my constantly crashing sense and am always lost.
Perhaps a plea for making the headers clearer would be necessary too
blakeboro said:
One reason we (and I refer to new folks like me) have a difficulty with this (well I do, any road up) is that the thread header, or whatever they're called are so full of guff.. unnecessary messing about with symbols and other distracting crapola. I for one am looking for another theme to replace my constantly crashing sense and am always lost.
Perhaps a plea for making the headers clearer would be necessary too
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I would not argue against that point at all .... Can't find it or even search for it , if it is unreadable in the first place ....
watcher64 said:
I know nothing may change, but I can always hope, I agree with the 94.6% thing fully ....
But if they keep posting the same question over and over THEN it does fall in the Mods domain as spamming , and the mods can handle it with legitimate reason.
I mean simple things, like posting in the wrong forum/thread , it is like walking into a bakery and asking them to change the oil in your car , I mean what kind of person does it take to do a bonehead move like that ...
Oh and I am not saying to really to ignore the posts, because people might learn if a few people hit their thread in the wrong place, and tell them they have the answers but will not answer it because it is in the wrong thread, I know that is being a ****, but , sometimes teaching means writing the lesson on a big stick and smacking them with it till they get the message ..
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Click to collapse
Yeah that does sound fair enough...........
Ive just had a good laugh at the thought of somebody walking into a bakery and asking how to flash there HD2..........
@blakeboro - a lot of the thread titles actually give a pretty good indication of what they are about (once you get used to it), but your right some are just total gibberish, there are guidelines on how to title releases etc but as with most of the rules they tend to be ignored far too often.......
Let me throw in my $0.02 in here.
As watcher mentioned already, there are very few of us compared to the sheer volume of users that we get on a daily basis and it is very difficult for us to do everything we do, plus having to baby sit people who cannot read the rules.
The rules of the site are very simple and straight forward. In fact, Rule #1 is "Search before you post". Even if the title of the thread itself is misleading, you don't have to go through threads to find what you are looking for. The site does have a search engine, which may not be the best, but it gets the job done. Also, you have our friend Google...
Responding harshly to threads/posts with questions that are completely out of place may work (most times it doesn't though), but here is the approach that I have always used. Flaming the user takes you nowhere and tends to ignite flame wars as users get pissed with one another. Shortly after that, since this is a public forum, everyone and their grandmother believes that they are entitled to give their two cents/piece of mind... and that's when things begin to get ugly, which is why we have to get involved and in many cases, we (moderators) end up looking like bad guys because we don't allow user A to tell user B what he/she thinks of the situation. There have been many instances where users just flat out turn against mods, stating that we are on power trips and stuff like that, case which couldn't be further away from the truth.
Ignoring the posts doesn't really cut it either as it is very likely that the user in question will either bump his question or ask again. As much as we don't like it, it happens... a lot. So, if you have the time, it helps us tremendously when you report the posts, because we can move the post/thread to where the person may get help and not be flamed for it, which in turn avoids the flame war situation depicted above. It helps also if you don't post inflammatory comments in the post of the "Search you stupid n00b" line.
If you know the answer and feel like helping others, simply post the answer with an explanation that next time, he should post in the right section. Otherwise, just report it and we will move it.
FYI, this has been the case for XDA for as long as the site has been running. It happens more nowadays because our user base is on the rise.
@egzthunder1 I do agree with not flaming them, but at the same time a "Flame" is a relative term, we have seen threads blow up , just by suggesting they search, because their post is a couple of days old and nobody has the answer ...
So really I don't know what the answer is, I don't think anybody does, how do you "make" someone learn ...
I mean to use the analogy I used earlier, it is like going into a bakery shop to get your cars oil changed, if the person stopped and read the sign that mistake would not be made ...
The problem on forums I think is the anonymity of the internet/forum, people think they can shut their brain off, and since we don't know who they are we'll spoonfeed them just to shut them up ...
This does not make a good environment for anybody here, the Devs get bogged down with BS posts, the Users have to wade through countless posts to find what they are looking for.
So while it is not a perfect solution, while not ignoring their posts, waiting till they are in the right place or asked correctly/nicely, to answer them might start to train them, pavlov's dogs and all ....
I just reported quite a few in the themes and apps forum. I really don't see a way to stop it without posing an undue burden on the moderators.
You could for instance have all "new" post in the themes and apps forum have to be approved by a moderator.
Or perhaps have a question come up asking if this is a new theme, app, wallpaper, ringtone, question, request, etc. when someone clicks to post a "new" thread. This could even insert "[THEME]", "[APP]", "[WALLPAPERS]" into the thread title as most authors currently do and new question, request selections could go to the Q&A forums instead of posting in the apps forum.
The problem is the first way would burden down the moderators even more while the second would require some special programming.
I think that instead of just having the forum layout of the threads oldest to newest, replies to a specific thread be attached to that tread and to see them you have to expand them. Just sayin.
Phantoms said:
I just reported quite a few in the themes and apps forum. I really don't see a way to stop it without posing an undue burden on the moderators.
You could for instance have all "new" post in the themes and apps forum have to be approved by a moderator.
Or perhaps have a question come up asking if this is a new theme, app, wallpaper, ringtone, question, request, etc. when someone clicks to post a "new" thread. This could even insert "[THEME]", "[APP]", "[WALLPAPERS]" into the thread title as most authors currently do and new question, request selections could go to the Q&A forums instead of posting in the apps forum.
The problem is the first way would burden down the moderators even more while the second would require some special programming.
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Click to collapse
Yeah. I counted 13+ that you reported. That's insane! Thanks for the help but unforunately I cannot do it since it's not my fora. I like your ideas... that is all but the "must approve post" one. There are currently 2,511,618 active members and it's growing on a daily basis. And the handful of moderators (only about 80 or so and 29 of them are device specific such as myself) have 434,244 threads to monitor as of this moment for the 84 different devices. So it's very difficult for us to continuously monitor half a million threads for 84+ devices with only 80 moderators. (ref stats)
Also keep in mind that because of this very limited amount of moderators to keep the site organized, clean and friendly it would be difficult and not to mention very time consuming to approve new threads each time and still be productive in the forums.
There is also the matter of urgancy.
I have come across more posts than I could count that someone has literally begged for immediate assistance. It could take hours or even days to approve the post for that member. We are trying to encourage people to use the site. That may only prove to be counter-productive.
The idea of a quick questionaire might help... but even I would have to admit that there have been times that I've seen a post that could be relavant to multiple forums (such as a question or statement about building roms, Q&A or development?) It's a tough call for even some of the most experienced members and may prove to be too much of a hassle. Oh and Watcher, this really should be in General since it's not actually pertaining to this particular device but to the forum as a whole. Even you mentioned this yourself in your original thread which only proves my point that there can be a black and white area as to where to post something.
So in the meantime just continue doing what your doing and they will be moved eventually. What I tend to do in my forums is move the thead in question and post a reason as to why I moved it. Sometimes send a warning to the OP stating that (s)he should review the forum rules about searching and post in the appropriate thread or else I won't just move it next time... I'll move and close it until he sends me a quote of forum rule #1 and give me at least three reasons as to why it is important to post in the correct section. In my opinion we should educate these members since most of them are Junior Members.
Which brings me to my idea. I have this crazy idea that for Junior Members ONLY should have to go through a CAPTCHA verification on a agreement of the rules before being able to post anything. That way if these members do post in the wrong section it gives us more grounds to take the appropriate action. It may also cut down on the SPAM that the site receives.
In any case, keep reporting the posts and we'll keep cleaning it up for ya.
Binary100100 said:
Which brings me to my idea. I have this crazy idea that for Junior Members ONLY should have to go through a CAPTCHA verification on a agreement of the rules before being able to post anything. That way if these members do post in the wrong section it gives us more grounds to take the appropriate action. It may also cut down on the SPAM that the site receives.
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Click to collapse
Oh I like that idea, say for people under 50 posts have to use a CAPTCHA and maybe on that CAPTCHA , a reminder to search before posting and to re-read their post before submitting ...
I am sure that most of the people here that do the things we are talking about, would be just as annoyed if someone bugged them the same way with their chosen hobby.
Another suggestion, if we were able to modify the forum this much, would be to have buttons underneath the first post saying: "Use forum search!" or "repeated question!" - if say, 10+ people click the button, then an automatic reply is generated saying: "Please use the forum search for answers" etc.
(These could appear for a new member's first 10 posts etc)
We also have to realize that in the HD2 Leo forums, the Q&A forum was just recently added. So you have to change people's habits of posting those questions, request, etc. in the Themes and Apps forum. Along with that you have a ton of posts already in the Themes and Apps forum that will need to be moved to the Q&A forum as replies bring them back to the top of the Themes and Apps forum.
Binary100100 said:
Yeah. I counted 13+ that you reported. That's insane! Thanks for the help but unforunately I cannot do it since it's not my fora. I like your ideas... that is all but the "must approve post" one. There
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Yeah, reported about as many tonight. Just think what would happen if you didn't have to wait 1min between reports. Not really. I go through my regular routine of reading the new post in the themes and apps forum as usual. The ones that don't belong in that forum (questions, request, etc.) I open in separate tabs and report as I can while reading through the rest of the new post.
The "must approve" suggestion I knew would be to burdensome on moderators. On just new threads it's a lot of added work. I don't think whatever route is taken you have to worry about individual replies, just entire threads that are off topic. If you could find a way to automate the moving of improper "new" threads that would cut moderators work in half right there. That's where the suggestion for adding a selection when clicking "New Thread" of the type of thread (and automatically moving those in the wrong forum) came from. Still, some users would get wise to it, not care and click the wrong selection (App instead of Question) just so they could get their thread started in the wrong section.
Ok so we know how people are going to be very excited about all this jazz working and alll that, but i noticed quite a few threads of crap already how about we keep this section looking good and not post rubbish threads such as these
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=735692
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=735787
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=735751
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=735735
I no its new and exciting but surely we can try and keep this looking good and make it easy to find answers, 99% of th questions that have been asked have already been answered here somewhere all you have to do is look in the main sticky and you will get you're answer, cmon lets not get all crazy on here now.
crap thread
The build works perfectly, but, the wind noise and the echo on the phones that call me are driving me mad.
I've flashed my rom plenty of times>
energy
elegancia
miri v17
Currently using miris, radio 2.10.50.26, and a class 4 card. Still, everybody complains about the noise and echo. Does anybody has any suggestions for trying to fix this? I've replicated darkstone's setup but can't get rid of this two issues. When those two issues are fixed, android will be a full time replacement for winmo.
Seriously I give up on you lot
I'm getting robot voice, GSOD, Boot cycling, segfaults, broken htc sense
my setup is...
O wait ya, WRONG PLACE FOR THIS KINDA CRAP THAT SHOULD BE LOOKED UP INSTEAD OF POSTED
I agree with you. For topics that already have somewhere to get the information, mods should post a quick link, say search, give 'em a light slap on the wrists the first time, and lock the thread.
Well, the best way, would be to make another subforum, because, obviously, this entire Android forum is going to be HUGE! Soon it will be full of differents ROMs, FAQs, Random questions, and people's own threads about their experiences.
So I agree, if we don't do anything soon, this forum is going to end up in a huge mess.
Either some admins are appointed, to cleanup and simply REMOVE all the spam threads, or else there's a need for even more sub forums, one to ROM releases, one for questions and answers, and one for general discussion etc etc.
THats just my opinion.
Stoferr said:
Well, the best way, would be to make another subforum, because, obviously, this entire Android forum is going to be HUGE! Soon it will be full of differents ROMs, FAQs, Random questions, and people's own threads about their experiences.
So I agree, if we don't do anything soon, this forum is going to end up in a huge mess.
Either some admins are appointed, to cleanup and simply REMOVE all the spam threads, or else there's a need for even more sub forums, one to ROM releases, one for questions and answers, and one for general discussion etc etc.
THats just my opinion.
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For now, it would probably be best to just have mods clean it up better, maybe a dedicated mod or two. With only 2 cooks right now for HD2 android, and only 2-3 cooks with light Winmo+android roms, kinda don't need their own forum as of yet.
Really, it just needs to be cleaned up. And personally I think there are too few threads per page, but that's just me. I'm the kinda person who doesn't check page 2.
i have a feeling velayo's post is intentional
A plea to all users.
There are two things that are annoying in this forum:
People who can't use the search box....
But even more annoying, replies telling others to use it!
The idea is to keep a forum to the point. A question is asked and hopefully answered, and therefore doesn't have to be asked again. Hence the use of search.
A post asking the same question later is a useless post.
*However*, a post saying "Use the search button" is just a complete waste of time, space and energy.
Even though the former is annoying, it would be much easier instead of wasting a post on "Use the search function" with an appropriate answer, or even better, just don't post at all.
Both are forms of forum clogging, so don't think you're helping by being blatantly unhelpful.
Rant over.
This has already been posted about and discussed before, USE THE SEARCH!
PS. I understand what your saying but the only way to get through to these ignorant/lazy people is to be straight to teh point and tell them to use search and read stickies or to simply delete/close their topic and message why.
I agree. New people aren't going to search alot of the time, and even once they get scolded for it once or twice and learn their lesson, they don't know what keywords to use in their searches alot.
Then along comes some jackass who doesn't want to take the time to explain what the person should be searching for, or what way to go about it. Usually like you said telling the person in a rude way to use the search function.
In the end, it takes roughly the same amount of time and energy to help someone and show them how to do something for themself, as it would take to be a smart ass and be of no assistance.
Part of being a decent human being is to help others, even if it takes a little of your time, or is annoyingly repetitive. I would rather be a patient, helpful person than an impatient ass who doesn't have the self control to be kind and help others who are in a position I was once in, instead becoming annoyed and spewing snotty comments in an attempt to feel clever and superior.
So uhhh, yeahh... I guess I agree with your rant lol
But next time use the search function you damn noob theres already like 100 or so rants just like this one. lol
how can i go about putting adroid on my hd2
and can it be dual booted with winmo
and what is cwm and magdlr
Joking lol
well, i dont really agree. people dont get mad here because someone asks questions, its because they resist to read the first page of any thread (carefully) and then opening a new one, because they were to lazy or impatient to read. almost every issue can be solved, just by reading the first thread page. they look for the download link, download, do something and come back opening useless threads. i was also a noob, then like i allways do in any forum, i went thru the stickies. you get everything explained there (i dont mean the specific stuff, like memory mapings or kernel compiling).
cheers
here's the problem i often see on forums
you use search, you get an interesting old thread about your problem. You post on this thread with new questions... everyone just shouts: Don't revive an old thread create a new one... and when you create a new one, they shout : Use the damn search, it has been answered before etc... etc...
And most of the time when you use search, you get old threads and the latter may contain outdated irrelevant info.. hence sometimes i think it's better to just create a new fresh thread so that you can get the fresh info. just my opinion.
@ yeahman
I find your point on how members of xda will shout at another member for "reviving" an old thread to be ridiculous.
I'm sorry, but I've never encountered such before, if you could refer me to a thread with such then I'll come to accept your point, but for now, it's utterly ridiculous to me.
The search button may or may not answer your needs, it's impossible for all cases. However, what I've noticed, is a majority of new threads opened nowadays in the HD2 forum concern how to install MAGLDR, HSPL, radio, a Build, Cwm, or something in relation. Now first of all, none of those topics even require one to use the search button. All are referred to in the stickies of their respective forums.
So it all boils down to users being downright lazy.
I had a rant about this in the "About xda" section a while back....
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=920113
I did title it HD2 specific, but it's obviously not specific to the HD2. It just happens here a lot more than other forums because of the popularity of the device. I've seen it in other device forums (when I've had other devices) but never to the extent I've seen it here, especially since the introduction of Android.
People need to stop thinking about how their reaction relates to a specific user and how it makes them look. It's all about the forum, as that's 100% the reason why we're here.
Incidentally, as you'll see from that thread, the majority of posters agreed with our mutual point. It's nice to know we're not all shrivelled with envy and trying to prove something.
Kailkti said:
@ yeahman
I find your point on how members of xda will shout at another member for "reviving" an old thread to be ridiculous.
I'm sorry, but I've never encountered such before, if you could refer me to a thread with such then I'll come to accept your point, but for now, it's utterly ridiculous to me.
The search button may or may not answer your needs, it's impossible for all cases. However, what I've noticed, is a majority of new threads opened nowadays in the HD2 forum concern how to install MAGLDR, HSPL, radio, a Build, Cwm, or something in relation. Now first of all, none of those topics even require one to use the search button. All are referred to in the stickies of their respective forums.
So it all boils down to users being downright lazy.
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i was talking about forums in general.. not xda in particular (probably i was a bit out of subject by saying that, srry about that).
yup i agree for threads like how to install MAGLDR, etc.., creating a new thread each time is not right as you say (it makes search results so difficult too as you get tons of redundant threads about it), there are so many stickies and faqs for that.