Database Users

WinMo 7 predicitions

What do you think WinMo 7 is going to be like? Do you trust Microsoft to not screw it up? Do you think HTC will really give us a free update for our Leos?
I think it would be fantastic if they released a Beta version for the public to test like with Windows 7, but it doesn't seem like that's going to happen, which makes me nervous.
Hopefully the Zune team has a say in the design, cause they seem to have their **** together.

I'm guessing it's going to be a combination between WM 6.5, Android, Iphone OS and Zune. Honestly I'm hoping for something revolutionary.

MS didn't mess up Windows 7 so there's no reason to think WM7 will be any different.
Think positive.

I think a beta test would be positive for them anyways, especially to beat down all the rumors and to give people a reason to wait/want those WinMo devices, guaranteeing the availability of WinMo phones by the time it releases to the world in final form.
If they don't act swift in these times there would be no manufacturer left to distribute to and it would pretty much be at the brink of death (= even more pressure)..
However, once they bring out a public beta, IPhone OS and Android might actually get inspired by it and anticipate before it is even released, making it less spectacular.
Yep, there are two sides on this.. I hope it'll be as revolutionary as they are implying.

laserviking said:
Do you trust Microsoft to not screw it up? Do you think HTC will really give us a free update for our Leos?
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Click to collapse
No and definitely no.

I hope MS knocks it out of the park. But, I don't understand how they are going to leverage all of the legacy apps and their ugly interfaces and some new-age GUI.
If they decide to kill off all the old stuff and start fresh, then it technically isn't Windows Mobile anymore because none of the 1000's of WM apps will be compatible. Maybe there will be some sort of compatibility mode for the old stuff?
All of the "iPhone killers" died because of the following reasons:
1) No iTunes. Nowadays, services are more crucial to sucess than hardware specs. Direct-to-device music, movies and books is a killer feature.
2) User-experience less than iPhone's. The iPhones killer feature is it's fluidity and lightning fast response of it's GUI. You can't hate such speed.
3) Single form factor. Developers know how their apps will behave whereas WM apps have to cater to the various types of WM phones. Screen resolution, graphics acceleration, d-pad, optical mouse, fingerprint sensor, accelerometer, touchscreen, keyboard ? All of these options hinder software development for WM.
Microsoft is the only company that can battle Apple on all three fronts right away. For services they have Zune, Bing mobile, for gaming XBox, Windows Live/MyPhone, Exchange, Office, Windows Desktop. All of this needs to be thoroughly incorporated into its WM7 platform.
I just hope MS doesn't market WM7 as some cheap alternative to iPhone. WM7 needs to be a great OS GUI-wise but also offer services equivalent to iTunes on a super-powerful hardware platform with no less than cutting edge specs. It appears MS is on this path but I don't know how great the end product is going to be. My fingers are crossed.

OMG can we please close this? Totally useless speculation.
If you have no clue, just don't post. I know a lot but I won't tell you anything, just wait for MWC and stop the silly speculation.
EDIT: WhyBe, your post is actually very intelligent. That's why I'll give you a hint: Trust MS to do exactly what you expect
(though not all is perfect)
Oh and @Shasarak: I told you before, but I will tell you again: Ruling out any possibility without actually having a clue is stupid
You always pretend to know what you're talking about, but you actually know nothing at all. And, you know, drawing conclusions from nothing at all is just silly. Much more so than those speculators who at least admit that they've got no clue.

Freyberry you are one wound up dude. It's pretty normal to speculate on this kind of thing and hope that there will be change for the better. Given WinMo's awful track record and Windows recent push for usability everyone is speculating how it's gonna be.
"I know a lot but I won't tell you anything"... I'm getting flashbacks to the school playground here

mark0326 said:
MS didn't mess up Windows 7 so there's no reason to think WM7 will be any different.
Think positive.
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Click to collapse
Basically this.
Also, Microsoft hasn't messed anything up since Windows Vista.
Microsoft is on a hot streak right now, and I don't see any reason that should end anytime soon. Ballmer even beat Jobs to the punch with tablets.
And not only did Ballmer beat Jobs [to the punch], he punched harder too.
The only thing Apple et cetera has going for them at the moment is populism. People like Apple and they don't like Microsoft, probably because Apple tries to make tech appeal to the lowest common denominator, whereas Microsoft makes tech appeal to the enthusiast, while giving the lowest common denominator sufficient attention that they'll be at least able to passably use whatever product is in-question.
WhyBe said:
I hope MS knocks it out of the park. But, I don't understand how they are going to leverage all of the legacy apps and their ugly interfaces and some new-age GUI.
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Click to collapse
Look at Windows and Internet Explorer.
Microsoft is positively the master of backwards compatibility.
WhyBe said:
If they decide to kill off all the old stuff and start fresh, then it technically isn't Windows Mobile anymore because none of the 1000's of WM apps will be compatible. Maybe there will be some sort of compatibility mode for the old stuff?
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Click to collapse
So is Windows 7 not Windows because 16-bit Windows 3.1 apps won't run on it?
Not saying at all that Microsoft will kill of backwards compatibility. The Windows Mobile family is just too new for us to see backwards compatibility die off -- at least if Microsoft sticks with their current paradigm.
Windows was backwards-compatible with Windows 3.1 for over 17 years.
WhyBe said:
[/B]1) No iTunes. Nowadays, services are more crucial to sucess than hardware specs. Direct-to-device music, movies and books is a killer feature.
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Click to collapse
If you're insinuating that Microsoft should do anything like iTunes, then I suggest that you just get out right now. iTunes is an example of everything a device experience shouldn't be. The ActiveSync paradigm is brilliant -- an application to sync your device if you want, with your device retaining the ability to act on its own.
iTunes isn't about user experience, it's about locking you in, and that's the biggest strength Microsoft products in general have -- you can do whatever you want.
WhyBe said:
2) User-experience less than iPhone's. The iPhones killer feature is it's fluidity and lightning fast response of it's GUI. You can't hate such speed.
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Click to collapse
Look at Windows 7. They're knocking the ball out of the park on GUI design these days, just look at the massive steps forward from 6.1 to 6.5, and now to 6.5.3.
And, they're taking their time on Windows Mobile 7. I'd rather wait and get something great than something that's rushed out of the gates.
WhyBe said:
3) Single form factor. Developers know how their apps will behave whereas WM apps have to cater to the various types of WM phones. Screen resolution, graphics acceleration, d-pad, optical mouse, fingerprint sensor, accelerometer, touchscreen, keyboard ? All of these options hinder software development for WM.[/I]
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Click to collapse
Again, I suggest you just get out right now. Go buy your Apple products and enjoy your "single form factor". Microsoft doesn't play this game. You buy Windows, you don't buy a Microsoft computer, you buy Exchange, you don't buy a Microsoft mail server.
Their biggest strength is the fact that they don't have a single form factor. They do what they're good at -- software design -- and let the hardware designers do what they're good at.
WhyBe said:
Microsoft is the only company that can battle Apple on all three fronts right away. For services they have Zune, Bing mobile, for gaming XBox, Windows Live/MyPhone, Exchange, Office, Windows Desktop. All of this needs to be thoroughly incorporated into its WM7 platform.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Again, if you want Apple-like lock-in, go play with an iPhone. I doubt Microsoft is going to go this route, and if they do, they'll lose me as a customer. The strength of Windows and Microsoft products is the fact that you're not locked in. You're given an operating system and you're free to do whatever you want with it.
If you want someone to tell you how to do what you want to do with your device, rather than merely giving you the choice, go bend over for Steve Jobs.
Get out.
WhyBe said:
services equivalent to iTunes
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Click to collapse
You mean lock-in?

If you're insinuating that Microsoft should do anything like iTunes, then I suggest that you just get out right now. iTunes is an example of everything a device experience shouldn't be. The ActiveSync paradigm is brilliant -- an application to sync your device if you want, with your device retaining the ability to act on its own.
^^^^^zune marketplace says hello

I certain hope there's no 'itunes' or 'single form factor', unless it's going to be their Zune phone, which I won't be buying.
I'm probably not who the new phone OSes are designed for. I just want to be able to copy files directly to it, use it for what I need, don't want to share data with them, don't really use social networks.

Spike15 said:
Basically this.
Also, Microsoft hasn't messed anything up since Windows Vista.
Microsoft is on a hot streak right now, and I don't see any reason that should end anytime soon. Ballmer even beat Jobs to the punch with tablets.
And not only did Ballmer beat Jobs [to the punch], he punched harder too.
The only thing Apple et cetera has going for them at the moment is populism. People like Apple and they don't like Microsoft, probably because Apple tries to make tech appeal to the lowest common denominator, whereas Microsoft makes tech appeal to the enthusiast, while giving the lowest common denominator sufficient attention that they'll be at least able to passably use whatever product is in-question.
Look at Windows and Internet Explorer.
Microsoft is positively the master of backwards compatibility.
So is Windows 7 not Windows because 16-bit Windows 3.1 apps won't run on it?
Not saying at all that Microsoft will kill of backwards compatibility. The Windows Mobile family is just too new for us to see backwards compatibility die off -- at least if Microsoft sticks with their current paradigm.
Windows was backwards-compatible with Windows 3.1 for over 17 years.
If you're insinuating that Microsoft should do anything like iTunes, then I suggest that you just get out right now. iTunes is an example of everything a device experience shouldn't be. The ActiveSync paradigm is brilliant -- an application to sync your device if you want, with your device retaining the ability to act on its own.
iTunes isn't about user experience, it's about locking you in, and that's the biggest strength Microsoft products in general have -- you can do whatever you want.
Look at Windows 7. They're knocking the ball out of the park on GUI design these days, just look at the massive steps forward from 6.1 to 6.5, and now to 6.5.3.
And, they're taking their time on Windows Mobile 7. I'd rather wait and get something great than something that's rushed out of the gates.
Again, I suggest you just get out right now. Go buy your Apple products and enjoy your "single form factor". Microsoft doesn't play this game. You buy Windows, you don't buy a Microsoft computer, you buy Exchange, you don't buy a Microsoft mail server.
Their biggest strength is the fact that they don't have a single form factor. They do what they're good at -- software design -- and let the hardware designers do what they're good at.
Again, if you want Apple-like lock-in, go play with an iPhone. I doubt Microsoft is going to go this route, and if they do, they'll lose me as a customer. The strength of Windows and Microsoft products is the fact that you're not locked in. You're given an operating system and you're free to do whatever you want with it.
If you want someone to tell you how to do what you want to do with your device, rather than merely giving you the choice, go bend over for Steve Jobs.
Get out.
You mean lock-in?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well Said. The only problem is that people really beleive what apple says.
If one said RIM & blackbery i would sort of listened. but iPhone! it doesn't do multitasking it's not an OS, it's a frimware
I do believe that WM7 is gonna be something that we didn't even think about. i don't know, maybe bringing another dimention to the scrolling? Vertical + Horizontal + Depth? that would be cool.
btw, why do we think that WM7 will be blue?

anaadoul said:
btw, why do we think that WM7 will be blue?
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lol! Blue always comes to my mind when I try to imagine WM7. Maybe because windows xp, vista and 7 are by default blue?
I wonder if WM7 will actually be black! like the zune hd interface. will be really cool!

laserviking said:
Freyberry you are one wound up dude. It's pretty normal to speculate on this kind of thing and hope that there will be change for the better. Given WinMo's awful track record and Windows recent push for usability everyone is speculating how it's gonna be.
"I know a lot but I won't tell you anything"... I'm getting flashbacks to the school playground here
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Click to collapse
Yeah school playground... lol, grow up, little child. Maybe I'm not allowed to tell you something? Ever thought about this simple fact?
I already told you too much. Just re-read my post, you'll see it contains a LOT of info.
And NO, I do NOT work for Microsoft, nor HTC.
About all the speculation: It's OK if you speculate what it will/won't be, but what is very annoying is when
a) people complain about things that are pure speculation
b) people pretend they know something by using words like "definitely", despite that they actually know nothing
@anaadoul @mightymn It will be blue/grey
(but only by default, cause it's very customizable)
Btw. those are worth watching:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pC0cxzLhFqM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xXfJZzeSZ0U
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0typyfPG_4

@freyberry
In the absense of better information I'm happy to accept that you know 'stuff' and logically, if you do know 'stuff', you probably oughtn't to talk about it.
So in that spirit, if you were to randomly throw a dart at a calendar in the interests of picking a date - entirely at random - when the wider community might start seeing pre-release or beta versions appearing, what would be your hunch for where that random dart might land?

Nice topic, it is fun to hear what everybody expects from WM7
I am very confused about WM7... one day I am all happy and can't wait for WM7.. the next day I am not so sure about it anymore... MicroSoft can really go either way IMO.
At the best:
- Brilliant new OS: Nice looking UI, smooth, stable, NEW features the other OS's don't have, good services like Zune, Xbox Live, etc. But most important...
A GOOD APPSTORE.
If all goes wrong...:
- Minor update of 6.5.3, some small UI changes, Zune, Xbox Live.
-------------------------
In the end if I just look at my HTC HD2, and think very clearly: what is missing? I think of the following:
- HTC Sense is nice, but it just does not come together with WM. I would like it to become 'one'. HTC Sense can also get a little bit slow sometimes. I would prefer a HTC Sense in the styl of HTC Hero, with the widgets.
- I want perfect stability of the OS: no more crashes, no more lagging.
- I want more App Support. I want a decent official AppStore. I don't need 140.000 apps, but I want it to be a succes. So not like the current 'AppStore' which is dead.
That's it. Zune and Xbox Live support are not even so important to me. These 3 points I mentioned are a MUST for WM7. Now that I look at it, the iPhone has all of these 3 points. I guess in the end I can not escape the fact that the iPhone OS is brilliant. That plus the awesome hardware offered by the HTC HD2 will make it a beast.
And regarding if HTC will give us the update for free: I hope so, I thing the chances are 50/50. But even if they want some money for it, I will pay it. Up to 15 euro, not more.
Come on Microsoft, show us you can, like you did with Windows 7, Xbox 360 and Zune!

@Gustopher
Nicely put, but unfortunately, I can not give you any satisfying answer.
I have no access to pre-release/beta versions, therefore I can only hope that something will leak soon. I don't think there will be a public/official beta.
After MWC, they will give more people access to the software, which will increase the probability of a leak.
Let's hope we won't have to wait until HTC releases an official upgrade, cause you know how long that usually takes.
WM7 definitely looks good (and yes, I may use the word "definitely", cause I know it). But Microsoft is doing a "great" job at scattering confusing/contradictory pieces of information, thus I'm just as anxious as you to see all the pieces come together.

freyberry said:
@Gustopher
Nicely put, but unfortunately, I can not give you any satisfying answer.
I have no access to pre-release/beta versions, therefore I can only hope that something will leak soon. I don't think there will be a public/official beta.
After MWC, they will give more people access to the software, which will increase the probability of a leak.
Let's hope we won't have to wait until HTC releases an official upgrade, cause you know how long that usually takes.
WM7 definitely looks good (and yes, I may use the word "definitely", cause I know it). But Microsoft is doing a "great" job at scattering confusing/contradictory pieces of information, thus I'm just as anxious as you to see all the pieces come together.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Understood and thanks. If I were to try to paraphrase, your - let's call it a hunch - elements of the OS are coming together but it's not quite at alpha/beta stage...but could be relatively soon.
So maybe waiting is the best tactic...

Waiting is certainly the best tactic. However, I fear some of the most important questions will not be answered at MWC, at least not officially.
(I don't mean the UI, I mean core functionality/services/compatibility etc., cause that's what I don't know about and have lots of questions - that's the pieces I want to see come together)
Ah well, let's turn this into a wild speculation thread, shall we? Just let me get the popcorn first....
...OK, here we go:
ppcgeeks said:
-At the Mobile World Congress event on February 15th, 2010, Windows Phone 7 will be unveilved, although at this time plans are only to unveil the user interface of the new platform . Specific indepth functionality of the device will most likely not be shown.
-The User Interface is based upon codename “METRO”. It will be very similar to the Zune HD User Interface with a complete revamp of the “Start” screen. The UI is “Very Clean”, “Soulful” and “Alive” [<-- That I can confirm.]
-Unfortunately there will be no Flash support at the get go as there was not enough time to implement these features.
-Windows Phone 7 will only support application installation through service based delivery. (i.e Marketplace). Application installation via storage card will not be possible.
- No Multi-Task support. Applications will “Pause” when in the background, however will support notifications via push notifications.
-Marketplace will now support “try before you buy” as well as an API
-No NETCF backwards compatibility. This means the original rumor of no backward compatibility for applications holds to be true. That being said, there are high hopes of porting the NetCF to the newer platform easily.
-Microsoft is confident that devices will be ready by September 2010
-Full Zune Integration
-Windows Mobile Device Center will no longer be used. Zune software to take over syncing via PC.
-OEM Interfaces will not be allowed to run on the device. Say goodbye to Sense UI / SPB Mobile Shell / Point UI / Infinity, etc, etc
-Full XBOX Gaming Integration (Gamer tag, achievements, friends, avatars, merchandising, etc)
-Full support for social networking
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Click to collapse
Source: http://www.ppcgeeks.com/2010/02/06/...ndows-phone-7-details-emerge-from-the-depths/
Flame on! Hahahaha...

freyberry said:
Waiting is certainly the best tactic. However, I fear some of the most important questions will not be answered at MWC, at least not officially.
(I don't mean the UI, I mean core functionality/services/compatibility etc., cause that's what I don't know about and have lots of questions - that's the pieces I want to see come together)
Ah well, let's turn this into a wild speculation thread, shall we? Just let me get the popcorn first....
...OK, here we go:
Source: http://www.ppcgeeks.com/2010/02/06/...ndows-phone-7-details-emerge-from-the-depths/
Flame on! Hahahaha...
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Click to collapse
i don't like that!
let's hope it's not true! i have always loved WM because it's so open.
no .net cf?! no way, this will mean loosing the whole developers community! i disagree with you i'm afraid
@freyberry
how can you tell all this? i'm close to MS here in my region and they didn't say anything and not willing to, notice that they support WindowsPhoneMiddleEast Community which i lead (look at my signature).

article: Microsoft responds to HTC HD2 Windows Phone 7 ROMs

A Microsoft spokesperson issued the following statement:
“We encourage people to use their Windows Phone as supplied by the manufacturer to ensure the best possible user experience. The scenario described is not supported at this time.”
http://www.winrumors.com/microsoft-responds-to-htc-hd2-windows-phone-7-roms/
I read that as open season for the moment....

People lets make some noise on there....

Mouhahahahahahahaha
EDIT: BTW, When I called for the Activation. They gave it to me (but I had already used the one provided here). Then they called me again today just to make sure everything is operating smoothly. I love their Customer service

and this is how the communtiy responded when MS said no!!! the HD2 has too many buttons.

Microsoft would be crazy not to support WP7 on HD2. Of course they encourage it now..!!

Microsoft has always been rather "friendly" with people experimenting with their products. Look at Kinect, HD2, 360, 7, etc. They are not encouraging it but they are not shutting off all doors either...
After all, it's free advertising and more people using their products...

They learn from it as well!!

“We encourage people to use their Windows Phone as supplied by the manufacturer to ensure the best possible user experience. The scenario described is not supported at this time.”
I think the phrase 'at this time' is a bit of a giveaway. In the future maybe???
Whatever people think of Microsoft, they do try to listen to the feedback given by their customers. 'Cracked' software comes with the territory for any OS developer. They could block any unlocks, but that would lead to other methods to bypass this.
No software is crack-proof.
Windows 7 activation was bypassed ages ago, and Microsoft haven't actively tried to stop this.
I'm not a huge MS fan, but hats off to them for trying to improve their software and OS year on year.....

geddeeee said:
“We encourage people to use their Windows Phone as supplied by the manufacturer to ensure the best possible user experience. The scenario described is not supported at this time.”
I think the phrase 'at this time' is a bit of a giveaway. In the future maybe???
Whatever people think of Microsoft, they do try to listen to the feedback given by their customers. 'Cracked' software comes with the territory for any OS developer. They could block any unlocks, but that would lead to other methods to bypass this.
No software is crack-proof.
Windows 7 activation was bypassed ages ago, and Microsoft haven't actively tried to stop this.
I'm not a huge MS fan, but hats off to them for trying to improve their software and OS year on year.....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The reason is there is no need to actively fight the activation cracking. It became a battle between the people who want to crack will crack no matter what. So what they did was make it as inconvenient as possible. Even when Windows 7 was cracked, unforseen checks caused the OS to relock itself and etc. More cracks had to be made to bypass the checks that werent seen.
With Windows phone, It's very likely they they don't care as long as people are using it since you can't exactly go out and buy windows phone 7 and install it like you can with the desktop OS. Plus, who knows how much they charge the phone manufacturers if anything.
The chances are, they either don't charge anything or charge very little and expect to make up for it when people buy content from the marketplace.
The phone itself was specifically designed with the pre-release specs for WP7 and with the HD7 was released and was basically the same, it was known then that eventually someone would get WP7 working on the HD2. Microsoft probably realized it and at this point they are going to just not support anyone using the HD2 as a WP7 device which is perfectly reasonable. The HD2 has some bugs to iron out for WP7 and why should Microsoft have to be responsible for supporting it.
This however isn't going to stop idiots who run WP7 on the HD2 from possibly calling Microsoft because of WP7 issues.

Hmmmm, the link at the top has had many HD2 WP7 users reply and left their view. Be careful because to leave your own comment they ask for an email. Make sure it isnt the email you used to activate WP7.
Putting that aside it is nice to see that Microsoft are not trying to slam the doors shut. Lets see what the updates bring and then see if they mean what they say.

Hilarity ensues!
ChrisTran206 said:
This however isn't going to stop idiots who run WP7 on the HD2 from possibly calling Microsoft because of WP7 issues.
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Click to collapse
Nope, the clueless will call regardless...
Honestly though, I didn't know what to think regarding MS's response. I guess I assumed they would shut it down asap. Stunning revelation for me actually and I have new found respect for them in embracing insteading of shunning the enevitable.

maybe MS did add the HD2 to the compatability list a long time ago, but forgot that it was still there, so the customer service just did the right thing.

DannyBiker said:
Microsoft has always been rather "friendly" with people experimenting with their products. Look at Kinect, HD2, 360, 7, etc. They are not encouraging it but they are not shutting off all doors either...
After all, it's free advertising and more people using their products...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not quiet sure how "friendly" they are with people flashing their 360 with a custom firmware unless u call "friendly" getting your ass ban from xbox live and ur account cancel

DannyBiker said:
Microsoft has always been rather "friendly" with people experimenting with their products. Look at Kinect, HD2, 360, 7, etc. They are not encouraging it but they are not shutting off all doors either
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
DennisCSUF said:
Not quiet sure how "friendly" they are with people flashing their 360 with a custom firmware unless u call "friendly" getting your ass ban from xbox live and ur account cancel
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, no #%$
I thought his comparison with the 360 was a little off. And M$'s response on the Kinect hack was don't mess with it, until they backtracked and said they made it that way all along.
I guess we will see what happens after the next WP 7 release...

they ONLY reason they are not supplying wp7 for HD 2 is becuz of too many button on our HD 2.. they are stupid.. omg =.=

sooner or later they will put an end to this, and sooner or later hackers will find a way to get pass it.

It comes down to this. its all business. MS wanted a new phone to release its new OS so they got the HD7. who in their right mind in the business world would want to spend millions on a new OS and make it work on past devices before any new devices would come out? and if they make it compatible with hd2, then why not some other windows 6.5 phones? see the chain they'd have to deal with here?
Now as far as their kindness towards the crackers of wp7, that's the only way they could react. if they sound like arse's, ppl would rebel and look down at ms like they do at apple. They aren't going to release some form of fix for the crack right away, so no point in getting mad about it. in my eyes they are behind the scenes saying, have your fun..we'll block it again eventually so you have to crack it again. Meanwhile, they are saving their face, time and money to try to develop a quick fix, and letting people all get drawn into the new OS. Its brilliant. just like our developers here at XDA!

cx1 said:
A Microsoft spokesperson issued the following statement:
“We encourage people to use their Windows Phone as supplied by the manufacturer to ensure the best possible user experience. The scenario described is not supported at this time.”
http://www.winrumors.com/microsoft-responds-to-htc-hd2-windows-phone-7-roms/
I read that as open season for the moment....
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Click to collapse
I think Tom Warren(winrumors) has got his story wrong!
"Some users have contacted Microsoft’s official support lines requesting codes after falsely claiming their device is a HTC HD7. Microsoft has been issuing codes to allow the devices to access Windows Live services."
I never claimed to microsoft that I had a HD7, I was asked why I needed a code. I told them it was for Windows Phone 7, not a HD7. They gave me the code for my WP7 what I told them, so i have not given them false info.
So Tony get your facts right.
Russ

Whither the Upgrade
nzxtneo said:
I guess we will see what happens after the next WP 7 release...
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Click to collapse
I agree. We shall all see what our efforts and desires bring us when the next release of WP7 comes out.
We'll all get the upgrade cleanly, OTA and we'll be smiling.
The upgrade will lock (or maybe even brick) our phones at which point all the small-minded people will scream at M$ for ruining their phones, which they had already ruined by running WP7 on a non-supported phone.
Or the upgrade won't work on our phones; we'll all be on the current version. Still functional but now it's an old OS (like 6.5). And we'll be asking for new ROMs.
And hey, if it's the first item we'll get copy/paste.

LOL. If it's all about copy/paste then we should "upgrade" back to WM 6.5...It has this functionality, as well as multitasking
I'm personally staying for a while with WP7...I like "The Harvest" too much

[NEWS] Microsoft to officially support homebrew developments on Windows Phone 7!!

Microsoft will soon support homebrew developments on their Windows Phone 7 platform following two days of meetings with developers behind the ChevronWP7 unlocking tool.
Late last year following the release of Windows Phone 7, a team of developers uncovered a bug which allowed those with a device running the operating system to install applications on their device without using Microsoft's application store, dubbed the Marketplace.
It made headlines as technology enthusiasts fought over whether the release of the unlocking tool, ChevronWP7, was a good idea to enable freedom on the platform or if it was a bad idea, encouraging jailbreaking and piracy.
However the team behind the software were soon contacted by Microsoft's Brandon Watson, Director of Developer Experience for Windows Phone 7, who took a keen interest in the matter and encouraged the developers to cease offering the tool while discussions about ChevronWP7's future continued between Microsoft and the developers.
Fast track to today, and the future is looking bright for developers and users alike seeking to install apps or customise their Windows Phone 7 device further than the Marketplace allows. In a blog post on the ChevronWP7 website, developers Rafael Rivera, Chris Walsh and Long Zheng confirm the software giant will soon offer an official way for people to "homebrew" develop on their devices, although just how this will happen is still being discussed.
"We're collaborating with Microsoft on an interim solution that will continue to support homebrew developments after the update," the trio wrote. "We will share details of this when it has been finalized."
The breakthrough comes following a two day meeting held at Microsoft's Redmond campus earlier in the month, which Rivera, Walsh and Zheng were invited to. Microsoft confirmed during the meetings that an update will be pushed out "soon" which will fix the bug which allowed the Chevron WP7 tool to work, rendering the unlocking tool useless.
The future isn't looking too gloomy though, with the trio "genuinely excited" about what the future holds for Windows Phone 7, saying they'll continue to work with Microsoft to "support mutual goals of broadening access to the platform while protecting intellectual property and ensuring platform security."
"We appreciate Microsoft's outreach, genuine interest and involvement in this matter and we hope the community can understand we're working towards a win-win scenario."

http://www.chevronwp7.com/post/2885085987/a-first-step-in-the-right-direction
If MS can pull off allowing side loading whilst preventing paid for apps from being pirated then this could be huge.

Even more huge would be if they finally start to offer the paid apps worldwide and not only in 20 countries. It's really abusing when you buy a 500 Euro phone and you can't get the really good apps and games for it even if you want to pay And that's true even for most EU countries.
It's really funny that MS expect me not to pirate WP7 apps but at the same time they offer me no legal way to buy them

TheOnly1 said:
Even more huge would be if they finally start to offer the paid apps worldwide and not only in 20 countries. It's really abusing when you buy a 500 Euro phone and you can't get the really good apps and games for it even if you want to pay And that's true even for most EU countries.
It's really funny that MS expect me not to pirate WP7 apps but at the same time they offer me no legal way to buy them
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sod it, just pirate them and give the money you would have spent to a charity of your choice

Confused !
i dont get it !!!!! what is the good point in it for us that using chevron unlocker and it will be patched soon !?

Chevron will die with the official update, but an even better unlocker is already done and waiting just for the update to be released, so that MS don't accidentaly shut it out

TheOnly1 said:
Chevron will die with the official update, but an even better unlocker is already done and waiting just for the update to be released, so that MS don't accidentaly shut it out
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Might as well post the link so other xda users know where to go to get it.
Windows Phone Device Manager
http://touchxperience.com/

I wonder when the penny dropped with MS. They've lost a lot of ground to Apple and Android - I'm confident they'll catch up, but they'll have to make more of an effort by giving stuff out for free.
For me, for now, I'm back to Android. WP7 was quick and slick, but like Kelly Brook, nice to look at but not a lot going on below the surface.

TheOnly1 said:
Chevron will die with the official update, but an even better unlocker is already done and waiting just for the update to be released, so that MS don't accidentaly shut it out
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes are right !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1 there is nothing impossible so if chevron die the other hacker and developer will rise ! , it is my personal war between me and MS ! cuz of '3 bottuns " !!!!

Pocketnow.com just sabataged us!

I just happened to read an article over at pocket now:
http://pocketnow.com/windows-phone/microsoft-on-hacked-windows-phone-7-and-live-services
titled: Microsoft On Hacked Windows Phone 7 And Live Services
in their vain search for headline news it seems pocketnow made it a part of their duty to have Microsoft look into us getting Live ID keys for our HD2s running Windows Phone 7. Now Microsoft is saying their going to take a hard look into this pratice. who knows what is going to happen if Microsoft is going to ban the issued keys
by the amount of mad faces you can tell i'm pissed.
wether Microsoft new about what was going on or not, pocketnow just amplified the issue.

It was strange that Pocketnow chose to push Microsoft on the issue. Microsoft seemed to be (deliberately?) ignoring the HD2-WP7 key issue. Pocketnow is just forcing them to take a position - which helps noone (except Pocketnow).
I imagine that Microsoft wont be too active in pursuing our phones. They will probably just put in place a policy to restrict new keys.

Perhaps everyone is just jealous of us & our HD2....

coolfire said:
Perhaps everyone is just jealous of us & our HD2....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sounds like thats the case.

link is dead anyways >.<

Ive been following pocketnow.com for years, very disappointed in them for forcing this and publishing this article.
F*CK you Anton D Nagy!!!!!
jcsy said:
link is dead anyways >.<
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
http://pocketnow.com/windows-phone/microsoft-on-hacked-windows-phone-7-and-live-services
Everybody should leave a comment on the article to show how let down you feel with them/author.

TheATHEiST said:
Ive been following pocketnow.com for years, very disappointed in them for forcing this and publishing this article.
F*CK you Anton D Nagy!!!!!
http://pocketnow.com/windows-phone/microsoft-on-hacked-windows-phone-7-and-live-services
Everybody should leave a comment on the article to show how let down you feel with them/author.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm with you on this one.

As long as everyone is buying from the marketplace and not bloomin well ripping apps and side loading them, Microsoft will be happy, but alas with all things people feel the need to steal from others, Android is rife with piracy...
So I would imagine Microsoft would be very pleased with HD running WP7 and activating the Live services as they can get more revenue from the marketplace without having to support our devices in anyway.
JUST BUY SOME APPS people and we will be OK.
People always seems to immediately think just because you have cracked or hacked a device it means you are a pirate, this is not true

Tards at pocketnow grrr haters! Thats what they are!
Hmm they always been apple fanboyz, but this is it!
A little sidenote, if microsoft locks us out, I'll never ever buy a phone from them again. Customers will drop like flies, let's sit this one out.

One of the only results of the article is that more people will know about being able to flash the WP7 ROM on their HD2s. Microsoft was of course aware of the ROM and why the number of people asking for keys for WP7s increased. Microsoft surely had formulated their responses and policies on the situation long before pocketnow.com contacted them.
The only other result is more people can see what kind of outfit that site is.
Most likely this will have little effect on using the ROM or obtaining keys.

Yeah, I saw that article earlier. Was surprised they would press the issue, but you know journalists, they generally have no conscience, all they want is a story. Won't be supporting or recommending pocketnow from now on.

Think as a Microfoft guy. Some retards come and ask you if you are OK that your services are being hacked. Of course you will not say that you are OK with this. It's a completely different question if you will do something about it.
Although the term "hacking" is completely wrong here. We all have legitimate WP7 keys issued by MS. He have hacked NOTHING to get Live access. Some ppl even said honestly they have a HD2. The MS representative that gave me the key never asked me about my device btw.
Just see the matter from MS point of view: YOu have 10 000 or so Windows Mobile customers that have found a way to flash WP7 to their devices. Unfortunately for you these folks can also flash Android to their devices. What would you do? Shut them down and send them to Google?

rlydiard said:
One of the only results of the article is that more people will know about being able to flash the WP7 ROM on their HD2s. Microsoft was of course aware of the ROM and why the number of people asking for keys for WP7s increased. Microsoft surely had formulated their responses and policies on the situation long before pocketnow.com contacted them.
The only other result is more people can see what kind of outfit that site is.
Most likely this will have little effect on using the ROM or obtaining keys.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Pocketnow already has tons of articles telling people that HD2 has got WP7 now.
What they did by this article was just to get Microsoft to look into a matter which they were most likely deliberately ignoring!
Am totally disappointed by Pocketnow!

Tanmay® said:
Pocketnow already has tons of articles telling people that HD2 has got WP7 now.
What they did by this article was just to get Microsoft to look into a matter which they were most likely deliberately ignoring!
Am totally disappointed by Pocketnow!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, I am quite aware of the articles that pocketnow.com has put online about HD2s running WP7. Partly because of those articles, and because Microsoft does indeed monitor XDA-Developer posts, they were indeed aware of the port since the beginning, and they certainly were aware of why so many people have been trying to obtain keys.
I doubt that Microsoft was deliberately ignoring the situation, but had already formulated their policies. And, as another poster pointed out, how do you expect Microsoft to respond when asked by a publication about the situation?
Microsoft could have come out with a much tougher statement, but they did not, so I still maintain that the situation for those who use WP7 ROMS on the HD2s will not drastically change, and that Microsoft will not make a sudden change of course here.

MS were already looking into this. You don't get to be the biggest software company by not knowing what is going on with your business.
Everyone should just relax. I've had a few friends who have told MS that they are running WP7 on HD2 and they need an activation code. MS gave them one, no questions asked.
If MS wanted to stop us using WP7 then they would have blocked ALL services by now. The HD2 is such a small share of their market, do you think they care? Not really. More exposure for them and their OS.
Personally, I don't really care either way. It would cost MS a few bucks to actively exclude certain phones. It isn't worth their time or effort. WP7 is a new OS. Why would they want to limit exposure?
Pocketnow are in it for the money. Any news is GOOD news.....

For all the people saying that they are disappointed by PN.COM,
Here is the response from the writer:
Anton D. Nagy said:
"@Adam Bentley, @luke Flex
Thanks for the kind words!
I get it you're neither a developer with software in the Marketplace nor songwriter/artist/or part of a band with its Music up on Zune. I understand you're not even part of an OEM or carrier that builds or sells smartphones or communication services and I think you’re not part of the team that made Windows Phone 7 possible. Simply put, I don't think you're someone who earns anything from the activities above. Should I wish you that your work, whatever it is that you do, would end up hacked/plagiarized the same way someday? No, I will not!
If you think that Anton, or even pocketnow.com for that matter, can do anything to influence a company like Microsoft, you're a fool! If you think that Anton, or even pocketnow.com for that matter, brought Microsoft the terrible news that its platform and services got hacked, you're a fool again!
What I'm saying here -- and this will be in no way considered pocketnow.com’s position -- is that I don't really care about the opinions of readers like you! Not because of the "screw you" part because we're professionals, but because the words that express your inappropriate thoughts, because of the mentality. You think you deserve to have something just because it simply can be achieved or because you own an HTC HD2? You disrespect the thousands who’ve worked hard for software that runs on hardware designed and manufactured by other thousands. You disrespect your fellow community members who have legitimately bought Windows Phone 7 software running on Windows Phone 7 hardware. Last but not least, you disrespect other pocketnow.com readers that might agree with the things I said above."
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

To my mind, this answer is just a kind of hypocrisy, bc I don't think Microsoft would be angry if some thousands of users would buy applications from the market, or even if some HD2 users would develop some apps (Microsoft claims that developers are needed and welcome).
In addition, remember that a lot of us (and me in particular) have bought HD2 only because it was the first phone that would have an update to WP7...
To my mind, it's just fair for us to have a port, even hacked, to WP7 !

kawazaki said:
For all the people saying that they are disappointed by PN.COM,
Here is the response from the writer:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The tool obviously doesn't realise the 'hack' does not allow carte blanch access to any Marketplace software, but only to free apps.
Poor journalism. But I'm sure Anton/PN is going to get a few extra hits out of this.

the only ones who will benefit from it are pocketnow.com, obviously.
I suggest we don't give them the attention they so loudely cry for, because they will bring XDA down. They disrespect developers, not vice versa.

Whatever goes on, I don´t care at all.
Yes, I indeed was hoping that WP7 would be ported for our HD2. Unfortunately, MS and HTC both missed the chance to offer this upgrade officially. Just try to imagine if they would have done this: There is a big chance that some longtime WinMo users would move over to the new platform - just thanks to a trial possibility.
The thing is: I think 80% of all HD2 owners don´t flash their devices. Imagine the possible boost for WP7 if all those were offered to upgrade officially. Great customer satisfaction generates positive mouth-to-mouth advertising.
If they start to fight the "hack", I believe the opposite will happen: More former "core" WinMo "power users" than before will move on to Android and iOS, the first is more "open" and the second is nicely jailbroken, both offering a massive number of apps. The result for MS is not only negative mouth-to-mouth advertising (the worst scenario a company can suffer), but also loss of ROI since less potential users buy stuff from marketplace, less potential users decide to use paid "Live" services (such as XBox Gold membership, let alone maybe even new potential buyers of that gaming platform), etc.
MS could simply decide to stop giving codes for "unsupported" hardware. Then again, HD2 is so close to HD7 that they might consider this device as "compatible". If they are even more clever, they could offer a trial, just as many app providers do in the marketplace. I would actually be willing to pay a couple of bucks if I would decide to keep WP7 - which is not the fact as of today, mainly because the OS isn´t ready yet imho.

Petition to Microsoft to allow jailbreaking

Hi all.
Haven't seen this topic yet so I thought I'd introduce it. Has a petition ever been sent directly to Microsoft to allow jailbreaking and development of apps in a Cydia like store. I'm positive this would increase the popularity of wp8. There are are so many little things like decreasing the interval for updating live tile, and creating playlists on the phone itself. Widgets would also be nice. I just got a 920 and like it a lot. I was using launcher8 on my gn2 before and that launcher allowed widgets on tiles, more rectangular tile options etc.

Are you really think that Microsoft or somebody else care about these petitions?

Useless guy said:
Are you really think that Microsoft or somebody else care about these petitions?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
if enough people sign, then yes I do. I'm convinced that many iOS and android users would try a windows phone. There would be far more developers making apps also.

Jailbreaking will never be allowed on windows phone becuase Microsoft wants to win over the business sector. One of the reason the secure boot was implemented was because of businesses complaining about security on WP7.
Besides, there aren't really BIG things to get from jailbreaking, other than useless things some individuals care about. the vast majority of WP8 users are happy with their phones, plus most of the things you are asking (like adding playlists on the phone), will be supported eventually.
Lowering the interval for live tiles is a really bad idea btw.
If microsoft ever allows access to the file system, there will be no need for anything else: developers will pick it up from there and do their thing.

Ain't ever going to happen. Ms is bent over backwards by OEMS and carriers
Sent from my Arc using xda app-developers app

we need to start a kickstarter or offer a bounty on xda
I am sure if we started a bounty or kickstarter and rightfully paid one of the hackers to jailbreak wp8 they could get the job done a lot sooner
so how shall we go about this?
I am ready to offer my contribution

noelito said:
I am sure if we started a bounty or kickstarter and rightfully paid one of the hackers to jailbreak wp8 they could get the job done a lot sooner
so how shall we go about this?
I am ready to offer my contribution
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Still won't happen dude. I don't know but there seems to be some sort of aversion to WP by all the devs. The iPhone/iPad community has a number of devs piling over eachother to bring out the "next best way to JB". Android, I don't even need to get started. Other OSs too will fall in place soon. But what keeps the devs away from WP is a bit of a mystery to me.
BTW, I hope you know what happened to the kids that jailbroke the first Gen WP devices. They got hired by MS and were given a T shirt, if my memory is good.
So... that's that.

It's hilarious how you people believe that is easy to exploit WP8, Devices that use it have Secure Boot and Bitlocker so exploiting the boot process is practically impossible, exploiting on app-level is also hard as all apps run over a sandbox and the user has no administrator privileges so you can't use the sandbox exploitation available for Windows RT.
Plus there's overall no appeal for hacking it other than it runs over NT.

I think we should do it, there is nothing to loose, but it shouldn't be for jail breaking but for allowing file system access similar to Windows RT

Everybody can try to found a exploit.
If somebody will have luck, he will be the man....
But like people here say...
Its very very hard!
Sent from my GT-I8750 using Board Express

It's better for Microsoft (in the long run) that the OS will not be jailbroken: Jailbroken devices can install pirated applications, and pirated applications makes application developers angry.
Currently, app devs have no choice but to develop their applications to the 2 major OSs out there (iOS and Android), and know that in some point it is quite likely that people who jailbreak their devices can install pirated copies of their applications.
In the long run, as WP would start gaining major market share, application developers would be more keen to focus their development for WP as they'd know their property could not be pirated (if, supposedly, WP will remain unhacked).
This is of course only hypothetical - there's no protection which is made by men and cannot be hacked by men, and I'm more than sure that the more user-base and interest WP gains, the more likely is that someone would find a loophole in the OS and it'd be jailbroken...
And maybe not

Thread moved to General

I am as well very certain that Microsoft will not allow for Jailbreaking of the devices. They have some programs that will get you a free dev account to develop on top of the Plattform but they don't Support changes to the Plattform itself. If you want to make your Point about giving Devs certain APIs go to wpdev.uservoice.com and Support them with your votes.
As for jailbreaking WP: I'm sure it can be done because in the end: techniques exist to exploit basically everything but as was already said: Microsoft isn't making it easy.

StevieBallz said:
I am as well very certain that Microsoft will not allow for Jailbreaking of the devices. They have some programs that will get you a free dev account to develop on top of the Plattform but they don't Support changes to the Plattform itself. If you want to make your Point about giving Devs certain APIs go to wpdev.uservoice.com and Support them with your votes.
As for jailbreaking WP: I'm sure it can be done because in the end: techniques exist to exploit basically everything but as was already said: Microsoft isn't making it easy.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It may be possible, but as for now they have closed damn near every hole we could think of. I'd say the only way we can hope for SOME progress is if we can exploit the root certificate and policies somehow. I know GoodDayToDie had a few good potential ideas. It's not that the device NEEDS to be jailbroken, we need to be given more trust. I feel as if Microsoft automatically feels like we will screw everything up so it's being our overprotective mother instead. We all know what happens when you are too overprotective to those you care about.....
With that said, if we can just be given a LITTLE more freedom.. That's all I ask for. I don't think we would have to worry about any type of malware since the App Hub process is smart enough to give me the red X if I'm trying to call MessageBox.Show() from a background task.
/endrant.

What if we paid you the bounty?
Sent from my SGH-T899M using XDA Windows Phone 7 App

iOS is certified afaik for government use, so the business security issue is specious. Not everybody will hack their device anyway.

There are different levels of security certifications, similarily to Mil-Spec Standards that exist for a lot of different criteria. Allowing people to do more with their devices isn't really at the core of Microsoft's concerns here. They don't try to push it though as they want applications in the Store and not on the web. Piracy is likely to play a role here too.
As for a bounty to make a JailBreak happen - it might be an incentive for certain developers to start looking into it. With WP7 the way most of the time was to hack the Bootloader and then flash a custom ROM to allow for additional access. With WP8 people might need to look into other ways in given that Secure Boot is likely to be a very hard nut to crack. Given that the original Jailbreak for WP7 relied on custom certificates it's likely that Microsoft invested there to close this off better but it's of course still worth investigating.
The more important part in the end would be to get Microsoft to make more available through the official APIs. They are extending those and this has made more functionality available every time they did a major update to the OS (Mango, Apollo).
Another point to note is that native interop is now part of the regular SDK. It's therefore likely that native APIs will be better protected against accesses from unauthorized Apps than they have been in WP7 (where the problem was getting native code to run at all).

RCranium666 said:
if enough people sign, then yes I do. I'm convinced that many iOS and android users would try a windows phone. There would be far more developers making apps also.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not trying to be negative but I don't think the would care. On their won suggestion site (http://windowsphone.uservoice.com/forums/101801-feature-suggestions/suggestions/2281201-custom-sounds-for-sms-mms-email-notifications-e) the haven't even responded to the 40,000 + petitions that people have been voting for 2 years for custom MMS\SMS; something that is so easy to do.

Thanks for everyone's responses. I just went back to my gn2. I found too many compromises in wp8. The funny thing is, I use a wp8 launcher on android and it's much more versatile than wp8 itself. The l920 was also a disappointment. I'm no stranger to phone cameras and I was rarely able to take a good picture with it. I like the l920's design better than the gn2, but not much else.