Database Users

Samsung and the "Nexus 2"

So lets just get crazy and assume that Gizmodo has this right: http://gizmodo.com/5676008/ and this is the Nexus 2. If it is based on the same platform as the Vibrant (Galaxy S) and is running Gingerbread (2.3) we could be looking at some very real possibilities of our phones becoming as valuable as the Nexus One platform.
And a real good shot at moving right to Gingerbread.
My 2 cents.

zaphod_fl said:
So lets just get crazy and assume that Gizmodo has this right: http://gizmodo.com/5676008/ and this is the Nexus 2. If it is based on the same platform as the Vibrant (Galaxy S) and is running Gingerbread (2.3) we could be looking at some very real possibilities of our phones becoming as valuable as the Nexus One platform.
And a real good shot at moving right to Gingerbread.
My 2 cents.
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Click to collapse
Everything is still a speculation
http://www.cityam.com/news-and-analysis/google-and-carphone-mobile-deal
My 2 cents: Samsung is too new to the Android market to create a developer phone, even though Galaxy S provides a great hardware platform there are some aspects that could only be conceived during comma - RFS.
It is only a matter of time before we would know who has been chosen to carry the Android torch.
P.S. Before it becomes a war should be here or there - there are a plethora posts in XDA General section, and this thread most likely will be moved over there.

If this pushed Samsung to drop RFS, I'm all for it.

Um wasn't there a thread with a link to an article which said no more nexus period. That means 1, 2, etc. They purpose of google and the n1 was to push advancements and make phone devs step it up.Look it worked. To paraphrase googles head "we are not in the business of making cell phones"

Perfect combination, Samsung hardware with google supporting software.
Now people wont have to worry about if and when they will receive updates especially when new android OS come out.
This is the only reason i miss my nexus...exclusive OS updates

ntellegence said:
Um wasn't there a thread with a link to an article which said no more nexus period. That means 1, 2, etc. They purpose of google and the n1 was to push advancements and make phone devs step it up.Look it worked. To paraphrase googles head "we are not in the business of making cell phones"
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Click to collapse
that was 4 months ago. They could have changed their minds.

It would be nice that the Nexus Two is Samsung hardware, that means we Galaxy S owners will get the latest Android revision from dev. Google and Samsung joining up would be nice since Samsung make there own hardware.
Sent from my Samsung Vibrant Galaxy S using XDA App

d01100100 said:
If this pushed Samsung to drop RFS, I'm all for it.
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Click to collapse
+1
I for 1 would only buy another phone if I needed it. The vibrant now, which is still young in development, gives me what I need. The part that interest me about having the N2 manufactured by samsung would be possible ports to the current line of the GS series.

the wrong manufacturer is making this phone....im telling you dont let its sex appeal get u drooling...u'll b waiting forever for a software update like all the other Samsung phones. Samsung always finds a way to differentiate thier software from everyone which basically puts a governor that affects performance negatively like RFS filesystem and Touchwiz...dont get me wrong, the vibrant is a GREAT phone w/ media features but its the last Samsung phone ill ever get. I might ebay this soon if something comes out that catches my eye thats a HTC phone. Theres a big diff in performance and larger rom/kernel developer support. Cyanogen in particular

boimarc89 said:
the wrong manufacturer is making this phone....im telling you dont let its sex appeal get u drooling...u'll b waiting forever for a software update like all the other Samsung phones. Samsung always finds a way to differentiate thier software from everyone which basically puts a governor that affects performance negatively like RFS filesystem and Touchwiz...dont get me wrong, the vibrant is a GREAT phone w/ media features but its the last Samsung phone ill ever get. I might ebay this soon if something comes out that catches my eye thats a HTC phone. Theres a big diff in performance and larger rom/kernel developer support. Cyanogen in particular
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Click to collapse
What? Not to add speculation upon speculation, but surely the Nexus2 or a new developer phone would surely be void of any vendor overlays, even Samsung's TouchWiz.

true, but its very possible it could still have the dreaded RFS filesystem. Even with stock android, this will significantly hamper the phone.
This is one of the main reasons i'm leaning towards getting a mytouch 4g.

if samsung gets the nexus two, its very likely we will also benfit from it.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App

jackhuny said:
if samsung gets the nexus two, its very likely we will also benfit from it.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
/Twerd.
Hopefully it would push RFS out the window. And if not, as long as everything else is Google-ified, we can get it ported & get some z4mod action.
-bZj

Samsung says not true http://www.indyposted.com/122225/samsung-says-nexus-two-rumors-are-simply-not-true/

boimarc89 said:
the wrong manufacturer is making this phone....im telling you dont let its sex appeal get u drooling...u'll b waiting forever for a software update like all the other Samsung phones. Samsung always finds a way to differentiate thier software from everyone which basically puts a governor that affects performance negatively like RFS filesystem and Touchwiz...dont get me wrong, the vibrant is a GREAT phone w/ media features but its the last Samsung phone ill ever get. I might ebay this soon if something comes out that catches my eye thats a HTC phone. Theres a big diff in performance and larger rom/kernel developer support. Cyanogen in particular
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Click to collapse
Really? Haven't you learned anything about the Nexus One? Google supports their own phone, while their customer service does suck, all updates to the Nexus One was via Google, not HTC. If Google is wanting to make another Nexus phone, then I highly doubt they will let the manufacturer decide everything. Even with the RFS file system, I doubt Google would let that happen since it's their phone, and when they release a phone under their name, it will probably be a developer phone which should have little to no problems software-wise.

smashpunks said:
Samsung says not true http://www.indyposted.com/122225/samsung-says-nexus-two-rumors-are-simply-not-true/
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lol. i beg to differ
http://androidandme.com/2010/11/news/yes-the-samsung-nexus-phone-is-still-real-and-coming-soon/

Samsung Bad Press= Good!

with the most recent accusations of Samsung holding back OS updates and supposidly charging for carriers aquiring Foyo i cant help but feel like this bad press will be a good thing for us all because Samsung will be force to issue some quality control on OS pushes as well as firware updates. so all this negativity can turn positive, they have to because there is an onslaught on all tech sites talking about the customer reactions and all this crap. word to your moms

Google provides operating system updates to the Nexus S, not Samsung. Samsung simply manufactured the hardware; Google provides Android updates. This has been reiterated many many times now.
That is one of the main reasons why anybody bought this phone in the first place ... because we DON'T have to worry about Samsung handling software updates.

my bad, i mainly meant in generality regarding all samsung devices getting os updates. but regarding nexus s, samsung firmware updates, if any, are needed.

dudeimgeorge said:
my bad, i mainly meant in generality regarding all samsung devices getting os updates. but regarding nexus s, samsung firmware updates, if any, are needed.
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I don't think even other devices will benefit much from a little bad press for a couple of reasons.
#1 Samsung was the #1 seller of Android devices in the world last year, DESPITE a reputation in the geek community of being slow/poor about software updates. Why should they change? Whatever they're doing is working for them!
#2 The vast majority of people who buy Samsung phones, even state of the art ones like the Galaxy S line, aren't geeks, don't read geek sites, and don't even know what eclair/froyo/gingerbread are. They don't know what a software update is, and they don't care. The mainstream press doesn't cover this stuff, so most of Samsung's consumer market is oblivious to any of this. It's a bit of a tempest in a teapot..

distortedloop said:
I don't think even other devices will benefit much from a little bad press for a couple of reasons.
#1 Samsung was the #1 seller of Android devices in the world last year, DESPITE a reputation in the geek community of being slow/poor about software updates. Why should they change? Whatever they're doing is working for them!
#2 The vast majority of people who buy Samsung phones, even state of the art ones like the Galaxy S line, aren't geeks, don't read geek sites, and don't even know what eclair/froyo/gingerbread are. They don't know what a software update is, and they don't care. The mainstream press doesn't cover this stuff, so most of Samsung's consumer market is oblivious to any of this. It's a bit of a tempest in a teapot..
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Click to collapse
well this outlook of yours i thought about, and to be honest i feel that samsung is going to have a dreadful following year. If not in general, definently in our geek community

dudeimgeorge said:
well this outlook of yours i thought about, and to be honest i feel that samsung is going to have a dreadful following year. If not in general, definently in our geek community
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What percentage of the Samsung consumer base is made up of we geeks?
I doubt they'll have a dreadful year; perhaps not as good as last, but they still have the absolute best screen tech available, and they're pushing it out on a wide range of phones from 3" to 4.5". SAMOLED and SAMOLED + will sell a lot of phones alone, even to geeks who know that they'll eventually have a nice ROM from cyanogen or others eventually.

Where in the world is Carmen Sandiego? I mean, where in the world is the 2.3.2 update for the plethora of bugs and glitches in GB, Google?

dudeimgeorge said:
my bad, i mainly meant in generality regarding all samsung devices getting os updates. but regarding nexus s, samsung firmware updates, if any, are needed.
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Unless I misunderstood the bold statement. Samsung isn't doing any updates whatsoever on the Nexus S. It's all done by Google. Everything. Since there is no such thing as free hardware updates, Samsung's only involvement with the Nexus S and manufacturing it.

DKYang said:
Unless I misunderstood the bold statement. Samsung isn't doing any updates whatsoever on the Nexus S. It's all done by Google. Everything. Since there is no such thing as free hardware updates, Samsung's only involvement with the Nexus S and manufacturing it.
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Click to collapse
You are correct. ALL software support, including firmware, is Google's responsibility for the Nexus S. THIS IS GOOGLE'S PHONE.

onthecouchagain said:
Where in the world is Carmen Sandiego? I mean, where in the world is the 2.3.2 update for the plethora of bugs and glitches in GB, Google?
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Click to collapse
How many is a "plethora"? 5-6? You sound as if the phone is unusable.

rashad1 said:
How many is a "plethora"? 5-6? You sound as if the phone is unusable.
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Click to collapse
Since plethora isn't defined beyond "excess", I guess it depends on what your tolerance threshold for major bugs is.
Some people are finding the phone unusable, at least unreliably usable, because of a couple of major bugs:
1) Random reboots with no rhyme or reason.
2) Reboots during a call, randomly, no rhyme or reason as to why or when.
3) Reboots while being charged.
4) SMS bug where someone other than the intended recipient gets the message. (OTA out soon for this one per Samsung.)
5) Ringtone assignments randomly changing, resulting in people not hearing the phone ring or missing SMS notifications (because sound randomly picked can also be "none").
So there's at least 5 I can list off the top of my head. Perhaps the guy you were responding to has a different list.
I've only experienced #2 and #5, and there's a work-around for #5, so the phone's "usable" for me, but it's been a bit of a nervous experience being on phone call wondering if it's going to reboot.

DKYang said:
Unless I misunderstood the bold statement. Samsung isn't doing any updates whatsoever on the Nexus S. It's all done by Google. Everything. Since there is no such thing as free hardware updates, Samsung's only involvement with the Nexus S and manufacturing it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i'll tell you one thing google forgot to ask samsung for, or samsung didnt give to google, and that is the browser GPU acceleration fix that was given to the galaxy phones on 2.1.
so there's an example where samsung, the hardware manaufacturer, has a specific driver for their very specific hardware. it perhaps may be something that would take google too many months to build from scratch on their own without technical insight from the hardware vendor.

Nexus S is not a "developer phone" - stop calling it one!

I keep seeing posts where people call this thing a developer phone. It is not a "developer" phone, and I wish people would stop calling it one.
From Google's official android developer's site (take note of the parts I've put in italics and bold):
"If you want a SIM-unlocked phone, then you might consider either an Android Dev Phone or the Google Nexus S. These are SIM-unlocked so that you can use them on any GSM network using a SIM card. The Android Dev Phones also feature an unlocked bootloader so you can install custom system images (great for developing and installing custom versions of the Android platform). To find a a place you can purchase the Nexus S, visit google.com/phone. To purchase an Android Dev Phone, see the Android Market site (requires a developer account)."
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Click to collapse
They wouldn't say "or a Nexus S" in the same sentence as developer phone if it were a developer phone, but the stronger argument that it's not a "developer phone" is the fact that you don't have to have a developer account on the Android Market to buy one.
People usually call it a developer phone while making excuses for buggy android software and other glitches. This is a disservice to all users and lets Google off the hook for all the major glitches in the Gingerbread just a bit more easily than they deserve.
The Nexus S is sold to the public at large, at the largest big box consumer electronics store in the US and marketed as the most advanced phone you can get. No mention of "developer" in any advertising, talking points, or Google literature on the phone that I've ever seen.
Even the Nexus One wasn't a developer phone until they stopped trying to change the phone industry by selling direct to the public via the web. Check Google's blog from last August.
The only thing even remotely developer-ish on the NS is the easily unlocked bootloader...but that doesn't make it one.
/rant off

Agreed.
Sent from my Nexus S using XDA App

True that it's not officially called a dev phone (isn't the N1 still the only one?)
But honestly, who cares what people call it? Dev phone or not, the GB glitches and bugs suck. Even if it was officially a Developer Phone, isn't a dev phone a phone people are supposed to develop and test their apps on? Not be guinea pigs for the OS itself...

fchipm said:
True that it's not officially called a dev phone (isn't the N1 still the only one?)
But honestly, who cares what people call it? Dev phone or not, the GB glitches and bugs suck. Even if it was officially a Developer Phone, isn't a dev phone a phone people are supposed to develop and test their apps on? Not be guinea pigs for the OS itself...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Right on the guinea pigs part. Gingerbread could have used a bit more beta testing in my opinion.
I don't have a dev account, so I don't know what the official list is, but I do know the Nexus S isn't the only one. I imagine there are many models; the developer phones are unlocked sims and unlocked bootloaders so devs can buy one and use on any network to test their apps without being forced to a certain carrier, which would turn some devs off.
My issue with people calling it one around here is that way too many people are quick to dismiss other people's (legitimate) complaints about the phone and Gingerbread with something along the lines of the two following remarks:
"It's a developer phone, you should expect bugs..."
"It's a Nexus phone, you're on the bleeding edge of the OS and you should expect bugs..."
Personally, I don't mind most of the quirks on the phone (the reboot during a call and the sudden loss of data are my only real complaints), but on a $600 (after taxes) phone that my mother could walk into Best Buy and purchase, I expect the thing to be solid enough for consumers and a bit more polished.
Though in fairness to the NS, I think most android phones have plenty of quirks, and to be fair to android in general, most versions of iOS do as well.

distortedloop said:
I keep seeing posts where people call this thing a developer phone. It is not a "developer" phone, and I wish people would stop calling it one.
From Google's official android developer's site (take note of the parts I've put in italics and bold):
They wouldn't say "or a Nexus S" in the same sentence as developer phone if it were a developer phone, but the stronger argument that it's not a "developer phone" is the fact that you don't have to have a developer account on the Android Market to buy one.
People usually call it a developer phone while making excuses for buggy android software and other glitches. This is a disservice to all users and lets Google off the hook for all the major glitches in the Gingerbread just a bit more easily than they deserve.
The Nexus S is sold to the public at large, at the largest big box consumer electronics store in the US and marketed as the most advanced phone you can get. No mention of "developer" in any advertising, talking points, or Google literature on the phone that I've ever seen.
Even the Nexus One wasn't a developer phone until they stopped trying to change the phone industry by selling direct to the public via the web. Check Google's blog from last August.
The only thing even remotely developer-ish on the NS is the easily unlocked bootloader...but that doesn't make it one.
/rant off
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes it is true, nexus s is not a developers phone.
What is weird is that the nexus one aka "developers phone" still doesn't have android 2.3 after 7 weeks. I wonder on which phone gingerbread was developed and tested then. I also wonder, how are they going to test NFC on android 2.3+ on a nexus one... hhmm and also wonder how are they going to test video chat on google's Talk app (rumors says it is coming) on the nexus one... I also wonder how the game optimization done on gingerbread could be developed on a non-multi-touch developers phone... I'm confused

This topic has already been talked to death. Why open another thread just to rant, man? Get off your semantics soap box and give it up.
Sent from my Nexus S using XDA App

Nexus one wasn't a dev phone either... at first it was just another phone. Then became a dev phone and sold as a "official dev phone" for testing.
With time... the nexus s will also become a dev phone too.
And yes... this subject is getting old...
Google updates, No bloatware, stock hotspot and tethering, etc.. etc..
not official dev... but it taste, looks, and acts like dev.

I don't think they'll turn the NS into a dev phone, it might not even be a phone, It'll be ADD instead. (device)
What's gonna be defacto HW by july this year? All mfgs will have dual core phones and google will be planning for jelly by then.

kenvan19 said:
This topic has already been talked to death. Why open another thread just to rant, man? Get off your semantics soap box and give it up.
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Click to collapse
For the same reason everyone else does...
And it's a high horse, not a soap box.

distortedloop said:
For the same reason everyone else does...
And it's a high horse, not a soap box.
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Click to collapse
No, its definitely a soap box. One makes speeches from a soap box and it is typically associated with preaching on a street corner or in more modern terms making a speech to a crowd of people who couldn't care less.
Oh, and by correcting your mistake I am knocking you off your high horse as I'm proving you're fallible.

kenvan19 said:
No, its definitely a soap box. One makes speeches from a soap box and it is typically associated with preaching on a street corner or in more modern terms making a speech to a crowd of people who couldn't care less.
Oh, and by correcting your mistake I am knocking you off your high horse as I'm proving you're fallibility.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You meant to type "your".
"You're" means "your are", and saying "I'm proving you are fallibility" is grammatically incorrect.

JCopernicus said:
You meant to type "your".
"You're" means "your are", and saying "I'm proving you are fallibility" is grammatically incorrect.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually, it was merely a typo. I originally typed "fallible" and decided to change it to "fallibility" however forgot to change "you're" to "your". The mistake has been corrected.

**** me,
Does the word Anal mean anything to you guys hahaha
Some people are just so pedantic on xda, If you wanna argue, get married
JD

The Nexus S is a phone, no phone is ever released as a developer phone, it just evolves into one by the option of an easy root and unlock of the bootloader. In the future the Nexus One will no longer be able to support latest OS's so im sure the Nexus S will carry that torch,
And i dont give a toss about spelling mistakes,
JD

distortedloop said:
I keep seeing posts where people call this thing a developer phone. It is not a "developer" phone, and I wish people would stop calling it one.
From Google's official android developer's site:
Android Developers website said:
If you want a SIM-unlocked phone, then you might consider either an Android Dev Phone or the Google Nexus S. These are SIM-unlocked so that you can use them on any GSM network using a SIM card. The Android Dev Phones also feature an unlocked bootloader so you can install custom system images (great for developing and installing custom versions of the Android platform).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They wouldn't say "or a Nexus S" in the same sentence as developer phone if it were a developer phone, but the stronger argument that it's not a "developer phone" is the fact that you don't have to have a developer account on the Android Market to buy one.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually, the "Android Dev Phone" was a version of the HTC Dream sold with a specific unlocked bootloader. Therefore, this is not an either/or situation of a "developer phone" versus the Nexus S, but rather a specific model name. The Android developers' website has changed its wording since it was originally released, but if you do a search, you will still references to "ADP".
Likewise, if you look at HTC's Developer Center you will find links to the ADP1's proprietary binaries—this "ADP1" is the "Android Dev Phone" that is mentioned on the Android website. There was also an ADP2, which was called the Ion and given out at one year's Google I/O conference; that phone was made by HTC, and was sold under the names Magic and the T-Mobile myTouch 3G. (There is a forum here for the device under "Sapphire", the target name of the device.)
When Google brought out the Nexus One, it stopped selling through its site the ADP1 and ADP2, and the Nexus One replaced those products as a "developer phone". Similarly, the Nexus One has now been superseded by the Nexus S, which is the newest "developer phone".
While it may just be semantics, the Nexus S is a "developer phone", and the "Android Dev Phone" was the name of a specific phone model, just like "Nexus S" is the name of a specific phone model.

kenvan19 said:
No, its definitely a soap box. One makes speeches from a soap box and it is typically associated with preaching on a street corner or in more modern terms making a speech to a crowd of people who couldn't care less.
Oh, and by correcting your mistake I am knocking you off your high horse as I'm proving you're fallible.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I was trying to lighten the mood and be self-deprecating by saying it was a high-horse not a sop box, but your ego made you take it as some kind of challenge to your superiority and forced you to spew out more of the same? Trust me, there's no contest there, you are obviously more intelligent, compassionate, and a more valuable a member to the xda community than I am. I suspect I might be better looking, but that's a matter of taste, and unproven since I have no idea what you look like in person. My tongue is firmly planted in my cheek, please take it that way.
Anyways, like any other thread you think discusses something to death, give it a one star rating and stop participating, it will eventually filter down to the bottom and we won't have to look at it any more. I've given that advice in other threads on here, and followed it myself.
As it stands, your posts in this thread have been nothing but inflammatory and baiting. What's the point? At least when I get snarky about "that's already been posted/asked/discussed, I also add something responsive, like the answer to the question, an opinion on the topic, or a link to something to move the conversation forward. Have you done the same here?

I'm sorry you don't think it's a "developer phone" whatever the buttsmack crap that is.
Hate to burst your bubble, but any phone that supports USB debugging (AKA every Android phone? The iPhone? WP7?) is a developer phone.
Either way, if you're getting at buggy OS, even that would have nothing to do with whether it's a "developer phone" or not. Most phones are buggy. Developer phones or not. They all have their quirks. So wtf is this topic about?
Now if you're saying it's a developer phone to specifically develop Android on, and not apps, then yes, it compiles from source and you can fastboot from source with an unlocked bootloader.
Sorry it's not codenamed the "ADP4", yet.

distortedloop said:
I was trying to lighten the mood and be self-deprecating by saying it was a high-horse not a sop box, but your ego made you take it as some kind of challenge to your superiority and forced you to spew out more of the same? Trust me, there's no contest there, you are obviously more intelligent, compassionate, and a more valuable a member to the xda community than I am. I suspect I might be better looking, but that's a matter of taste, and unproven since I have no idea what you look like in person. My tongue is firmly planted in my cheek, please take it that way.
Anyways, like any other thread you think discusses something to death, give it a one star rating and stop participating, it will eventually filter down to the bottom and we won't have to look at it any more. I've given that advice in other threads on here, and followed it myself.
As it stands, your posts in this thread have been nothing but inflammatory and baiting. What's the point? At least when I get snarky about "that's already been posted/asked/discussed, I also add something responsive, like the answer to the question, an opinion on the topic, or a link to something to move the conversation forward. Have you done the same here?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I haven't posted any quotes to the prior conversation because I see no reason to post a link to a conversation I had with you in a different thread given that it was with you. My second post was to clear up that I was not, in fact, referring to a high horse, but a soap box. You asked me, whats the point of my posting this but I would rebut with the same question. Why would you post a meaningless, cluttering thread about an opinion based on semantics which has already been discussed at length in other threads? In fact, in your first post you are baiting others with a differing view point by explicitly stating that they are wrong.
My personal opinion on the matter is that it is a developer phone in spirit. I would never have called it that before I read this blog post on the Android Developers Blog:
The Nexus S, like the Nexus One before it, is designed to allow enthusiasts to install custom operating systems. Allowing your own boot image on a pure Nexus S is as simple as running fastboot oem unlock. It should be no surprise that modifying the operating system can give you root access to your phone. Hopefully that’s just the beginning of the changes you might make.
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Click to collapse
That is an endorsement of developing specifically mentioning that the Nexus S was designed to allow developers to develop on this phone. But I've said all of this before and I saw no reason to re-post the same opinion over and over, again, given that I had said conversation with you not two weeks ago.

There are two android dev phones. I just logged in to check.
One's a mytouch 3g and a Nexus One.
$399 & $529.

Anderdroid said:
I'm sorry you don't think it's a "developer phone" whatever the buttsmack crap that is.
Hate to burst your bubble, but any phone that supports USB debugging (AKA every Android phone? The iPhone? WP7?) is a developer phone.
Either way, if you're getting at buggy OS, even that would have nothing to do with whether it's a "developer phone" or not. Most phones are buggy. Developer phones or not. They all have their quirks. So wtf is this topic about?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But those are exactly the points that I was making: 100's of posts in here saying something to the effect of "You should expect bugs because it's a developer phone..." The buggy software isn't because it's some special kind of developer phone that should be given a pass because it has that label, and calling the phone a developer phone, when it's sold to the public via normal distribution channels, doesn't excuse the bugs.
There is no point to this topic...I'd suggest that everyone stop reading it.
formuk said:
There are two android dev phones. I just logged in to check.
One's a mytouch 3g and a Nexus One.
$399 & $529.
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Click to collapse
Thank you...

Nice C-Net article about Android updates. Reminds me of something...

http://news.cnet.com/8301-1023_3-20...-claims/?part=rss&subj=androidatlas&tag=title

doug2060 said:
http://news.cnet.com/8301-1023_3-20...-claims/?part=rss&subj=androidatlas&tag=title
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Why did he pick some of the crappiest android phones out there. As much as I hate not getting upgraded it seems as though this list is biased. None of those devices compare to Apple's products and the products that do he conveniently left out.

sahil04 said:
Why did he pick some of the crappiest android phones out there. As much as I hate not getting upgraded it seems as though this list is biased. None of those devices compare to Apple's products and the products that do he conveniently left out.
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True, but our phones got left out too...

doug2060 said:
True, but our phones got left out too...
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What I meant to say was he would have had more support if he had acknowledged the top tier Android phones such as ours that aren't getting updates instead of the crappy low end ones that probably can't run the updates that google wanted.

sahil04 said:
Yes, I'm no apple fanboy but even I think this article is trying to make apple look bad.
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Huh? The entire article was downing Android for lack of updates and this makes Apple look bad how?
Sent from my PG86100 using xda premium

It's so funny, the same people who ***** and complain about no OS updates are the same ones who get angry when someone at a tech site writes an article about it.
There was a similar article on Androidandme and everyone of the comments was full of people defending the Android world, yet many of these same screenames are people who allows ***** and complain about never having a recent update.
It's true, Google/Android is running the update thing horribly. Ultimately if they don't clean up the fragmentation then that will be their downfall.
Google needs to stand up and say "enough, you want my OS on your phone, then you provide timely updates, PERIOD!"
I think the power of Android is now large enough to make a stand like that.
I am so sick of being at the mercy of my carrier and phone manufacturer for updates. Especially when the phone is fully capable. Could you imagine purchasing a pc and being at the mercy of the PC manufacturer for OS updates or drivers?
Manufacturers need to just make the phone, provide the proper drivers, then screw off. Let Google release the OS on their site, and people just update that way, and use the drivers from the manufacturer or component makers. Too bad this will never happen because the phone manufacturers and carriers are in bed together, giving us no updates is 100 percent planned.

ramiss said:
Huh? The entire article was downing Android for lack of updates and this makes Apple look bad how?
Sent from my PG86100 using xda premium
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Sorry, I meant make apple look good lol, I don't know what I was thinking when I wrote that part.

SamsungVibrant said:
It's so funny, the same people who ***** and complain about no OS updates are the same ones who get angry when someone at a tech site writes an article about it.
There was a similar article on Androidandme and everyone of the comments was full of people defending the Android world, yet many of these same screenames are people who allows ***** and complain about never having a recent update.
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Click to collapse
What individuals are you talking about? I ***** about no OS updates and I back the article 100%. Just because lots of people complain about opposite points, does not mean that the same people are complaining about opposite points.

mike_ekim said:
What individuals are you talking about? I ***** about no OS updates and I back the article 100%. Just because lots of people complain about opposite points, does not mean that the same people are complaining about opposite points.
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Agreed. I ignored that comment because I wasn't sure as to how it was intended. I didn't post this link to ***** or complain. I posted it because it's a common theme with Android phones and many may not be aware of it.

Its a valid complaint that hopefully will be put in the spotlight. This is the number one thing that is leading to fragmentation and eroding support for android. Now that ios has some of the features of android there is heavier competition between the two. What if the next iPhone has a bigger screen and live wallpapers or if it become more open? How will android compete with that if it can't even keep its line or phones updated. Nobody can deny the superior support for iPhones over androids and that is something that Google really needs to try and remedy cause clearly it can't be left to the manufacturers or carriers. The os has matured enough that Google should start flexing some muscle so the system can have some standards.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App

It is not a fair comparison. Apple uses one (1) OS. Android is a base, and each carrier determines skins. Waste of an article is a waste of an article.

The original research is at http://theunderstatement.com/post/11982112928/android-orphans-visualizing-a-sad-history-of-support
I think the points he has to make is valid and of course frustrating, but it is *NOT* an Android problem. It's a general phone manufacturer and carrier problem. Feature phones have the same level of poor support. I know my last feature phone's email would never display the right timestamp, and the firmware was never upgraded (even though it was a top-of-the-line phone at the time)
Robert

Feature phones are completely different. You have android devices with basically useless lock screen security that take forever to get patched. You think that would fly with apple. Look at our phones stock performance. Apple would have fixed that fast. Just like they fixes one of the older iPhones following the iOS 4 update.
It's not just about os updates. It's about security patches and bug fixes. Malware is a bigger issue on android because so many phones are left in an unpatched state. It really does give android a very bad rep with a ton of users.
Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk

Do you think feature phones never had any security problems?
I still feel the problem is the same. The issue is not fixing an individual problem (or even applying a fix someone else has made), but the total lack of support after the "next" model comes out.
Personally, I think I'm going to use this research as leverage to avoid signing a commitment in the future. The prepaid/non-contract vendors are starting to offer Android devices. We can complain, but I don't think it will change the carrier's business models.
Luckily I near a big city and don't travel that much so a smaller carrier may be fine.

Help shed some light on the NS4G ICS wait.

So I don't know about you guys, but I am tired of waiting for ICS. Even more so I am tired of there being not a word spoken about the progress of the update from Google, Sprint, or Samsung. Being that I am still paying the phones subsidized price to Sprint with my monthly payments, I have taken my complaints to their official forum.
http://community.sprint.com/baw/community/buzzaboutwireless/phones-and-devices/samsung/nexus_s_
I encourage all of you that are tired of the silence of these companies to please join me on Sprints forums and voice your complaints. Maybe if enough of us speak up someone will realize it is better to have transparency even when things go wrong.
*I know some of you will say quit complaining and flash a rom. I know what my options are, but that does not excuse these companies for treating us the way that they are. Sprint should not be advertising the Nexus S 4G as receiving "OS updates as soon as humanly possible"*

I've been wondering this for a while.. when the ota update comes out, do you (as in everyone who's waiting for it) plan on using it?
Drop w/e custom ics rom you might have with performance tweaks, themes, status bar toggles, settings you'd never get in a stock rom, etc. etc.?
"treating us the way that they are"? Maybe you've forgotten that Google pulled the first ics update because of issues, and they already have 4.0.5 planned, ics is obviously having issues.
Don't get me wrong, i can definitely understand the frustration with no news about anything at all. I can see your reasoning for complaining to Sprint about that.
i dunno, I'm just curious as to why everyone is freaking out over it. imo they should be pestering Google to release the 4.0.4 source for us to fix some things in our roms, instead of bothering the carrier
Sent from my Nexus S 4G using Tapatalk

kyouko said:
I've been wondering this for a while.. when the ota update comes out, do you (as in everyone who's waiting for it) plan on using it?
Drop w/e custom ics rom you might have with performance tweaks, themes, status bar toggles, settings you'd never get in a stock rom, etc. etc.?
"treating us the way that they are"? Maybe you've forgotten that Google pulled the first ics update because of issues, and they already have 4.0.5 planned, ics is obviously having issues.
Don't get me wrong, i can definitely understand the frustration with no news about anything at all. I can see your reasoning for complaining to Sprint about that.
i dunno, I'm just curious as to why everyone is freaking out over it. imo they should be pestering Google to release the 4.0.4 source for us to fix some things in our roms, instead of bothering the carrier
Sent from my Nexus S 4G using Tapatalk
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Pestering Google would be the more direct approach for sure. But they already got their money for these phones. Sprint on the other hand I am still paying and will continue to pay (if I don't move to another carrier). So Sprint seems to be the more logical source to complain to and maybe if enough people pester them, they will in turn force Google to be more transparent. Because as is, it looks like Google could give a ****.

Ah alright, that makes more sense to me now. Thanks for the response
Sent from my Nexus S 4G using Tapatalk

kyouko said:
I've been wondering this for a while.. when the ota update comes out, do you (as in everyone who's waiting for it) plan on using it?
Drop w/e custom ics rom you might have with performance tweaks, themes, status bar toggles, settings you'd never get in a stock rom, etc. etc.?
"treating us the way that they are"? Maybe you've forgotten that Google pulled the first ics update because of issues, and they already have 4.0.5 planned, ics is obviously having issues.
Don't get me wrong, i can definitely understand the frustration with no news about anything at all. I can see your reasoning for complaining to Sprint about that.
i dunno, I'm just curious as to why everyone is freaking out over it. imo they should be pestering Google to release the 4.0.4 source for us to fix some things in our roms, instead of bothering the carrier
Sent from my Nexus S 4G using Tapatalk
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Click to collapse
No, I would never give up my mods & tweaks, etc....but I would love to have a stock rom with all those tweaks, mods, themes, kernels, etc. added on to it. IMHO, stock roms are almost always stable beasts! Honestly, at this point, I am doubting whether or not sprint even cares enough to let us know what's going on with the update. We're now over 2 months since the first official ota was pushed to nexus s and the devs here have already beaten the bloody hell out of sprint in releasing working roms, with brand new radios, bootloaders, and all. Granted, the bootloader & radio were ripped from a leaked rom, but still....we've got over a dozen working roms before the people who have full access to schematics, closed source code, etc. could even get one out.....and that's just plain sad!!

Has anyone gotten this OTA yet? I can't even find one person that has. It's making me think that it was a false leak, maybe that's already well known though...

patokeefe said:
Has anyone gotten this OTA yet? I can't even find one person that has. It's making me think that it was a false leak, maybe that's already well known though...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Umm.. Its called a leak because it was err.. leaked... It was an OTA update that wasn't released yet and still hasn't been. Doesn't make it a false leak, just means they still aren't ready to release it.
Sent from my Nexus S 4G using Tapatalk

Is he possibly talking about the leaked release date of the ota ics update, the one of the screenshot from a Sprint webpage showing Sprint saying the update will be released on February 16th???? I think he might have been asking if anyone got the ota update that this was showing. I personally think that it was a misprint and the update will be released on March 16th, as there is another leaked piece saying the NEXUS S update will be released in mid March.

KID ANDROID said:
Is he possibly talking about the leaked release date of the ota ics update, the one of the screenshot from a Sprint webpage showing Sprint saying the update will be released on February 16th???? I think he might have been asking if anyone got the ota update that this was showing. I personally think that it was a misprint and the update will be released on March 16th, as there is another leaked piece saying the NEXUS S update will be released in mid March.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly.
I should clarify, the substance of the leak-the date if the alleged OTA update-was false.
Sent from my Nexus S 4G using Tapatalk

Looks like Sprint is still sytematically deleting posts of their users and paying customers on their forum.
Go here and see before it is deleted: http://community.sprint.com/baw/thread/85388?start=0&tstart=0
"Nexus S 4g and ICS-where is it?
Why were these posts deleted? Why are you still trying to hide what is going on instead of answering my questions? There was nothing in these posts that was your content to delete. markie_b stated that posts that had Sprint property (screenshots) were deleted because of that, but why are these deleted?
POST 1
"@markie_b "the opportune word here is leaked which means someone is putting information out there before it is due and therefore Sprint has the right to delete any information"
Just because it was leaked does not make it any less true. There was a banner at the top of the page when Sprint employees logged into Dara and ISC. It was there for two days at least. Many different Sprint employees confirmed this as true. So deleting the screenshot and links to this image just makes it look like Sprint is trying to hide something. Which you are. Sprint messed up. Plain and simple. Maybe you guys should admit this and try to give us more information than just wait for ICS because we know nothing. We all know you and every other Sprint employee know nothing. You guys should work on changing that. Instead of hiding mistakes and staying silent on what is going on with an update, you should be proactive in letting us know every step of the process you are on in geting the update out. The source has been available for 3 months now, that is more than enough time to get the radios working. As I have said before we are all still paying Sprint for these phones. We deserve to be treated better. On a side note you should realize the Nexus is a developer phone. You are not dealing with your average Android phone users here. We will notice every single mistake you make and come looking for answers every time.
@aysdojo Why would you think it was an internal release? How many Sprint employees do you think still even own an NS4G? On top of that there is no system in place for Sprint to only push updates to Sprint employees. So how would they even accomplish an internal release?
@14knight So would you mind explaining why another post created by mattsholtz23 that asked why Sprint is advertising the Nexus S 4g as "OS updates as soon as humanly possible" were outright deleted and the member banned? There was no "leaked" information in that post. It was a simple question that was deleted instead of just being answered. It look like Sprints policy is to delete any post on here that makes them look bad. Instead of being up front and admitting when they do things wrong. A screen shot has been taken as proof of this post."
POST 2
"I must assume that you have trouble reading, as all proof needed was inside of last post. You must realize that you are asking for proof of things that do not exist, i.e. a way for Sprint to roll out releases only to employees all the while excluding every other NS4G owner on their network. This is like asking someone to prove that Santa Clause does not exist. The proof he does not exist is that no one has ever proven that he does exist. The same goes for Sprints secret employee OS upgrade system that you somehow beleive in. Like I said before, it would have been heard of by now through employee leaks, considering that the OP is about Sprint internal leaks this is something Sprint has a problem with. Also of note is that the one internal rollout you cited from Google had leaked screenshots of ICS (I guess you would have had to of read the article though) hitting Google+ and Twitter within hours of the actual rollout to employees. Further illustrating my point. I would also like to point out that I have answered your questions twice now with you still never answering my one question to you. Why do you believe this was an internal rollout? Any other post by you will be ignored as I must assume you are trolling and are hijacking the thread, considering your last 2 posts have not had a single fact in them and were all opinion, and that you never answered my one question to you. Now back to the real questions I would like to see answers to. I am still waiting Markie_B and 14Knight."
A screenshot has been taken as proof of this post, as have all my other posts."
And another one that was deleted:
"@dreamcat1138 You are correct. Not only does the NS4G have weak radio problems, but it is all Samsung devices that have signal issues. Samsung is notorious for using under powered radios inside of it's handsets. http://www.androidcentral.com/nexus-s-users-hows-your-wifi-strength http://www.androidcentral.com/are-you-having-radio-issues-your-nexus-s-4g-poll http://www.google.com/support/forum/p/Google+Mobile/thread?tid=34ad876196cb21c4&hl=en http://www.google.com/support/forum/p/Google+Mobile/thread?tid=72cde4a29b9021c3&hl=en http://forums.androidcentral.com/sp...e-wifi-radio-wifi-tethering-crashes-data.html Tweet from Engadget's Mobile editor - https://twitter.com/#!/zpower/status/15800092652998657 http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/archive/1714413 http://pocketnow.com/android/samsung-epic-4g-touch-hits-radio-problems-fix-promised http://pocketnow.com/android/epic-4g-touch-signal-loss-fix-coming-soon-user-leaks-it-early http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=24345 http://www.theverge.com/2011/12/21/...signal-problem-fix-coming-meter-being-changed Trust me I could go on. Basically all Samsung devices including the Nexus S 4G have horrible radios. Just look at some of the other posts in Sprints Nexus S forum. There are more than one post asking when the radios would be fixed on the NS4G, and they always have the same answer. It's in the next update. Yet with the last 3 update the NS4G recieved that were supposed to fix the radio issues, they never did. And now we are being told it will be in the ICS update. That is untrue as there is no fix for the radio ssues, it is a hardware issue, and the only fix for that is not buying a Samsung phone. Screenshots have been taken as proof of this post."
Here are even more that were deleted.
"Why was the screen shot and link to the image of the leak deleted? Why does Sprint feel that hiding their mess ups is gonna help? It is all over the web, we already know. Why don't you take the time to admit your mistakes and tell us what is going on, instead of deleting posts banning members and deleting pictures. Is this really Sprints stance, to hide facts and lie to it's paying customers? Every person on this Nexus board is still paying for their phones with their contracts. Why are we being treated this way? Screenshots have been taken as proof of this post."
"So you don't believe everything you read on the internet, yet you believe the rumor one guy (not a Sprint employee) posted on this forum that this was an internal rollout. As that one guy (techguy379) is the only and original source that this was an internal rollout, and looking at his other posts, he knows absolutely nothing about what Sprint is doing. Not to mention that if it was an internal rollout wouldn't the Sprint employees who leaked these screen shots have known that, as they are internal employees. I personally know for a fact that one of the screen shot leakers/posters was himself an NS4G owner, wouldn't it make sense that he would have been one of the internal testers, since he owned the phone the test was taking place on and was himself an internal employee of Sprint? The proof that Sprint or any other prvider has never done an internal rollout to test an OS on their employees is that we would have heard about it, on Twitter, Facebook, and XDA. Do you really think Sprint could control leaks from their 18 year old work force. Most companies can't even control leaks from their programers and coders. Come on. You also just proved yourself wrong, as Google is the only company that does internal rollouts of Android to test OS updates. Since they are the ones who make it. There has and never been a single reported case of a service provider (Sprint, Verizon, AT&T, T-Mobile) ever internally testing an OS update on their work force, and that is because they don't. Really you are just making yourself look silly. I am sure Sprint can take care of defending themselves without your ill informed help."
*update* Looks like nexuss4glies was banned and most posts deleted.

Here is a full account of what is going on at Sprint's forums.
http://sprintlies.tumblr.com/
Here is a reddit link as well http://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/pyaow/a_full_record_of_how_sprint_is_deleting_its_users/

Your sense of entitlement is ridiculous at this point.
These updates take time, there is a massive amount of testing that has to happen before you release an update that could potentially brick hundreds of thousands of phones in one day. When working with a wireless carrier they must also test to make sure the radio is working properly with the network as well, in a variety of environments and situations.
If any problem comes up during these tests it has to start over again, if google has decided that 4.0.5 needs to be developed before they can re-test it, it's up to them. Google has never once stated a release date for ICS on our phones, sprint had it on an internal website for employees only (which could be a fake shot), not out there for public consumption. It's likely they are testing it internally and still awaiting approval somewhere down the line.
Just calm down, or just install the leak if you are really truely that desperate. The OTA will come out in due time and you'll look back at this and wonder how you could be so unreasonable.
They are releasing it as fast as humanly possible. Humans make mistakes, bugs can sometimes regress and appear again. Humans are flawed, humans write flawed code. Would you rather have a broken update or one that's stable enough to roll out to everyone?

Google, Sprint, and AT&T could all handle this better with some actual communication. However, I don't think any of them are holding back ICS intentionally. They are obviously working out issues and when they feel it is ready, they will release it. I'm not sure what the original poster is trying to gain by this crusade.

bozzykid said:
Google, Sprint, and AT&T could all handle this better with some actual communication. However, I don't think any of them are holding back ICS intentionally. They are obviously working out issues and when they feel it is ready, they will release it. I'm not sure what the original poster is trying to gain by this crusade.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am trying to gain some transparency. I never stated that I thought ICS was being held back. But lets face it, there is no money in updating phones. The money is in selling them. I do believe that if more resources were put into development of updates it would result in faster updates. You would think this would be a priority for Google, at least with their flagship line of Nexus phones. Really, if this is what the "Nexus Experience" is supposed to be, then I am not on board. Second Sprint should have never sold this phone as a Nexus experience with "updates as soon as humanly possible" because the NS4G is not updated like the other GSM devices. Even Google has pulled CDMA Nexus's from it's Nexus developer page basically admitting that the update process works differently than the real (GSM) Nexus devices. I have a feeling this will all be happening again in a year when updates are needed for the Verizon and Sprint Galaxy Nexus.
My main goal is to draw attention to Sprint's and Google's mistakes as this whole process couldn't have been any more messed up. The more people that start criticizing these companies when they blatantly screw up the better off we will be in the long run. Staying silent for this long is just not the right way to be treating your customers. Especially when those customers are mainly the developers (Nexus devices are developer phones) who bolstered your OS to the number one OS in the world.

petrochemicals said:
My main goal is to draw attention to Sprint's and Google's mistakes as this whole process couldn't have been any more messed up. The more people that start criticizing these companies when they blatantly screw up the better off we will be in the long run. Staying silent for this long is just not the right way to be treating your customers. Especially when those customers are mainly the developers (Nexus devices are developer phones) who bolstered your OS to the number one OS in the world.
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I don't think creating a blog full of screenshots of you ranting at community managers (that have no sway or special information, or right to speak on sprint's behalf) is helping at all.
Explain what you think 'as fast as humanly possible' means in the context of a highly complex and sensitive phone software rollout. There is a lot that could go wrong and delay an update, you know the update is coming. You are not paying a monthly fee for updates to your phone, find me the line in your phone contract that says that. A line on a product's website isn't a contractually binding agreement, maybe false advertising. If you wanted to prove that however you'd need proof that google and sprint engineers weren't even working on porting the software, and we know they are.

IMHO this is a little silly. Why does it even matter at this point? Almost every single ROM that is developed or being developed is ICS. We already have it so why would we need ota?
Sent from my Nexus S 4G using xda premium

Bauxite said:
I don't think creating a blog full of screenshots of you ranting at community managers (that have no sway or special information, or right to speak on sprint's behalf) is helping at all.
Explain what you think 'as fast as humanly possible' means in the context of a highly complex and sensitive phone software rollout. There is a lot that could go wrong and delay an update, you know the update is coming. You are not paying a monthly fee for updates to your phone, find me the line in your phone contract that says that. A line on a product's website isn't a contractually binding agreement, maybe false advertising. If you wanted to prove that however you'd need proof that google and sprint engineers weren't even working on porting the software, and we know they are.
Click to expand...
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Yes it is false advertising. The Nexus S 4G was falsely advertised by Sprint to me and everyone else when purchasing it, as receiving "OS updates as soon as humanly possible". As for the definition I would consider it to be defined as the first time they released the OS back in December of last year. Google is to blame for making a shoddy OS that didn't work when it was released. If they would bother actually putting any real kind of money into the development and work force that does design these updates, then maybe it would have worked the first time they released it. But like I said before there is no money in updates, so the development of them will reflect that. Just like we have seen here.
Why you feel the need to protect billion dollar companies, I am not really sure. Any kind of company like these should be criticized constantly, otherwise they will walk all over us, just as they are in this situation. The bottom line is Sprint and Google have screwed up. The more attention that is drawn to that fact, the better. More transparency is needed in Sprint and Google's relationship with their customers and that is not going to be fixed by people like you that are making excuses for them.

petrochemicals said:
Google is to blame for making a shoddy OS that didn't work when it was released. If they would bother actually putting any real kind of money into the development and work force that does design these updates, then maybe it would have worked the first time they released it. But like I said before there is no money in updates, so the development of them will reflect that. Just like we have seen here.
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Click to collapse
And you just lost the argument entirely. Android 4.0 was developed for one phone at the start, the Galaxy Nexus, they stated it would come to the Nexus S eventually. Your argument is that the software is crap because they haven't written the device drivers fast enough for you. You want them to release broken software because you are entitled to fast updates.
Apparently to you 'as fast as humanly possible' means something entirely different, where humans are perfect creatures that never make coding mistakes. And on the off chance that the code was perfect to start it still takes time to TEST, time that has paid off already because they would have released a buggy update.
You can't just hire more engineers and throw more money at something to make it go faster. You assume your monthly WIRELESS USAGE fees go towards software development for one of sprint's 20+ phones. They don't.
Get over your false entitlement, they don't owe you anything.

lol @ people getting angry over ICS not being released yet
.... clearly you didn't have an Epic 4g and have to wait from September to March of the next year for Gingerbread.... we have nothing to complain about here in the NS4g forums

Quite honestly, yes the wait sucks, but it'll be worth it to not have the same type of bugs as NS3G users on TMobile and other international carries are facing. I used OICS then went back to gingerbread in December and have been waiting until the official OTA because I know it'll be better than ANY of the roms we have yet! Yes Sprint sucks, but they're trying to protect us. Also, as aforementioned by snowmanwithahat, at least we aren't like Epic 4G users and waiting 6 months or the other countless people in 2 year contracts not even on GB. Plus, no other phone that isn't a Nexus S has gotten the OTA yet so until then I'm still happy. I will, however, be furious if any other Sprint phone gets it first... Just my 2 pennies...