Database Users

T-Mobile in violation of...?

IRT this article:
http://www.zdnet.com/blog/open-sour...r-android-becoming-a-political-liability/7588
Just wondering about T-Mobile's stance in essentially going against this by openly preventing customization of the OS, if this is enforceable and if they are in fact in violation of anything at this point. Thoughts?
Is this something that could lead to a class-action lawsuit..? Just curious. Looked and didn't see if there were any other threads related to this issue.. if there is, sorry for the redundancy.

Hate to be an the apologist here, but I just don't see how this is T-Mobile's fault.
That claim could have passed a month-two ago, but now we have the Desire HD and Desire Z which have similar/same protections yet are unbranded, simfree HTC devices. It definitely seems like this was more of an HTC idea that T-Mobile embraced.

Pickx said:
Hate to be an the apologist here, but I just don't see how this is T-Mobile's fault.
That claim could have passed a month-two ago, but now we have the Desire HD and Desire Z which have similar/same protections yet are unbranded, simfree HTC devices. It definitely seems like this was more of an HTC idea that T-Mobile embraced.
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Agreed.
Overall this isn't T-Mo's fault and we shouldn't be pointing the finger at them. HTC is the culprit. It will be interesting to see if anything comes of this.
My original understanding of this "agreement" was that Apple/Microsoft/Google couldn't sue the people that jailbroke/rooted/hacked the phones. Meaning, the jailbreakers of the iPhone could literally parade in front of Job's face that "Hey, I am the one who created the jailbreak software" and Apple couldn't sue them. I didn't think the "agreement" had anything to do with companies preventing such customizations. Maybe I just missed it.
I would much rather see these eFuse type chips and what not go away. I understand that root shouldn't be a push button option but a few hours of work by a smart dev should be enough of a deterrent from your avg joe to prevent random bricks.

I agree with what is above - this is in no way T-Mobile's fault. Also, this is a repost as well.

have you guys ever heard "you are the company you keep" or "aiding and abetting" or "accessory to...." bottom line t-mobile has their name branded on the phone and in the phone. they knew about this sh*t so they are just as responsible. trust me i've had my run in's with the law a couple of time to know how technical stuff like this gets.

t-mobile knew what was in the phone when they received it and even before so why shouldn't they be held just as responsible. If my name and signature is on a product I sell and endorse then why shouldn't I be held responsible? Its common sense
Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using XDA App

t-mobile has responsibilities for any t-mobile branded phone
I have faith the G2 will be fully rooted, in spite of HTC and/or T-Mobile.....HTC really pulled a Motorola on this one (trying to lock the phone up)....I have no doubt that if t-mobile pushed HTC an easy root solution could easily be forthcoming, but T-mobile is just playing the 'not my fault' bs game....
I have to be content knowing the G2 is the best Android phone currently on the market, and that the dev community will defeat root (once radio/hboot is fully dealt with....)....at least VISIONARY temp root allows easy wireless tether and Titanium in the meantime....

Its wrong. As soon as you buy something and becomes yours nobody should tell you how to use it or what to use it for. If I buy a phone to wipe my ass that shouldn't be tmobiles bussines. All they should be worried about is to sell phones and give services, but forbidding ppl to do what they want with what's theirs its very very wrong....and idiotic
Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using XDA App

bigstunta101 said:
have you guys ever heard "you are the company you keep" or "aiding and abetting" or "accessory to...." bottom line t-mobile has their name branded on the phone and in the phone. they knew about this sh*t so they are just as responsible. trust me i've had my run in's with the law a couple of time to know how technical stuff like this gets.
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All they did was slap their name on something HTC created. You can't tell me you actually hold T-Mo responsible for something they didn't engineer? If they knew about it and didn't like it what do you think HTC would have done? Gone to ATT or switched it to a CDMA radio... oh wait they already basically have a copy cat coming out for Verizon. HTC can deal without selling through T-Mo. They'll survive.
nighthawk626 said:
t-mobile knew what was in the phone when they received it and even before so why shouldn't they be held just as responsible. If my name and signature is on a product I sell and endorse then why shouldn't I be held responsible? Its common sense
Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using XDA App
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You're common sense misleads you.
If you think T-Mo really has ANY influence over HTC you are mistaken. HTC sells through all 4 of the major carriers. They would just take their "G2" somewhere else. Blame the person that engineered the phone not the carrier to prints their name on it and throws a SIM card in it.
gaalaagaa said:
Its wrong. As soon as you buy something and becomes yours nobody should tell you how to use it or what to use it for. If I buy a phone to wipe my ass that shouldn't be tmobiles bussines. All they should be worried about is to sell phones and give services, but forbidding ppl to do what they want with what's theirs its very very wrong....and idiotic
Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using XDA App
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One problem...
There is a pesky thing called a warranty. If T-Mo/HTC provide a warranty, which they do, then they are obligated to fix/exchange a phone which cannot perform for its intended use. So if you bought a phone, rooted it, and royally F'ed it up because you are stupid and don't know what you are going you could then take it back to T-Mo and say it doesn't do what I bought it for and they would be obligated to fix it/provide a working one.
Consequently, to ensure as few people as possible root it they locked it down with this read-only NAND. They are protecting their arse.
Do I agree with it? No but I understand why they do what they do.
Warranty exchanges costs HTC money... so they want to ensure that as few warranty claims as possible are related to idiots doing something they shouldn't be or don't comprehend what they are doing.
It's a money game... nothing more nothing less.

@superfly u must work for tmobile and they must pay you good. Tmobile just cares about their damn money and sales. This ain't volunteer work for hurricane HTC. They are paid to sell the damn phones. Nobody put a gun to their head and told them to sell it. They are in it all the way even if all they did was slap their name on it. It officially states "hey I'm endorsing this product and all it comes with" endorsement comes with being held equally responsible. Just like in elections whatever one person in the party does that messes things up could ruin the whole party therefore everyone is held responsible even if they were on vacation when it happened. Here in the military that I'm in, its called accountability. There's no way of arguing your way out of something you are in ties with because it obviously has your imprints all over it. Simple as that
Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using XDA App

My dear brown nose friend Superfly:
IF tmobile cant handle that then they should close the company. Im sorry. I do as i please with what i paid for.Warranty only covers some things "which most of the time covers nothing" If i decide to wipe my ass with it then warranty wont cover it, if i decide to root it and brick it warranty wont cover it as simple as that...but then again i should do as i please with what is mine. We all know they could care less about you effin up your phone, all they want is being able to control what kind of os you got and bla bla bla only for sales porpuses.

When T-mo put thier name on it, they take all responsibility that comes with it.

First off, the article is trying to put blame on google... I just want to know how they cam e around to that. It feels like such a biased article. And how come there's no mention of Apple's practices? Or mentions of RIM? On top of that, it's already been said that this "rootkit" is bunked. Security measures are for the safety of the phone, usually. Why do they need to lock out the phone? You can cause a lot of havoc on the network with root access. (in fact, I kinda remember reading about an app that did just that when installed on rooted phones) It's in the interest of the customers to actually provide these security features. Just because we, as the technically inclined, get it, doesn't mean the average user should be punished.

nighthawk626 said:
@superfly u must work for tmobile and they must pay you good.
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I work for a public accounting firm and I'm a CPA... want to try again?
nighthawk626 said:
Tmobile just cares about their damn money and sales. This ain't volunteer work for hurricane HTC. They are paid to sell the damn phones.
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They make their money providing service for the phones they sell...
nighthawk626 said:
Nobody put a gun to their head and told them to sell it. They are in it all the way even if all they did was slap their name on it.
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This is just silly. T-Mo might exchange handsets but all the costs end up back on HTC depending on their agreement.
nighthawk626 said:
It officially states "hey I'm endorsing this product and all it comes with" endorsement comes with being held equally responsible.
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Again, do you think they had any part in the dev of the phone?
nighthawk626 said:
Just like in elections whatever one person in the party does that messes things up could ruin the whole party therefore everyone is held responsible even if they were on vacation when it happened. Here in the military that I'm in, its called accountability. There's no way of arguing your way out of something you are in ties with because it obviously has your imprints all over it. Simple as that
Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using XDA App
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Really? it's that simple?
So does Verizon, T-Mo, AT&T and Sprint take the fall for the Galaxy S debacle? They all have the same issue and all the customers are pissed off for the same reason so it is the carrier's fault? No, it is Samsung's fault. The fault lies with the person who made the phone and the software on the phone. Samsung should be held accountable for their failure of a phone... just like HTC should be held accountable if they are indeed in violation of this accord.
gaalaagaa said:
My dear brown nose friend Superfly:
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I have 0 loyalties to T-Mo. This is actually the first T-Mo phone I've owned. In the past 3 years I've moved from VZW to ATT to Sprint to VZW to T-Mo. I don't give a crap about any carrier specifically. Moving on.
gaalaagaa said:
IF tmobile cant handle that then they should close the company.
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Handle what exactly?
gaalaagaa said:
Im sorry. I do as i please with what i paid for. Warranty only covers some things "which most of the time covers nothing" If i decide to wipe my ass with it then warranty wont cover it, if i decide to root it and brick it warranty wont cover it as simple as that...but then again i should do as i please with what is mine.
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And what happens when someone roots their phone and takes it back and whines and biotches until they get a replacement? People abuse the warranty system which is why things are so tight these days. I don't disagree with your position, I wish I could basically "one click root" on day 0. It would be sweet but that's not the way the world is.
gaalaagaa said:
We all know they could care less about you effin up your phone, all they want is being able to control what kind of os you got and bla bla bla only for sales porpuses.
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Only for sales purposes? There are 100 other reasons for control over the content besides "sales". What does "sales" even include?
asarousi said:
When T-mo put thier name on it, they take all responsibility that comes with it.
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Bull... I completely disagree with this. If their customizations caused problems then yes it is their fault but just because their put their name on it doesn't make it their fault. HTC designed, manufactured and marketed the phone... T-Mo printed their name on the glass and provided you with service. That's it.

LOL...another "class-action?" thread. Why not take the initiative and start the class action process if you are so curious about it? Speak to a lawyer, read up on the requirements for a class-action suit. I don't think anyone in a forum is gonna actually do that.

For all you people *****in about the locked nand Stop *****in about it yesh. Don't like it get another phone. There are plenty of other phones you can root and such.

Nobody is saying that tmobile made the phone but don't sit there and tell me that when they were picking this phone as part of their lineup, they didn't play with it or even look at it at all. Bottom line is they knew what was in the phone, I'm sure they were hoping the hinge issue wouldn't blow up like it did and also they knew about rooting and tethering some that's why I'm sure they continued to put it in their line up. It wasn't just tossed on their lap. They have phone testers and possibly hired rooters and devs to test how rootable this phone is. Either way they are accountable
Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using XDA App

Bull crap. Ill buy the phone i want and root the phone i want because i want. Point blank

Nobody has forbidden anyone to root this phone. They made it hard to do and they put up a very clever stumbling block, but they didn't forbid it.
You can crack the phone open and look at every part of it, nobody will stop you, but they don't have to put a button on the side that makes it fall apart so that you can do it easily.
Similarly, if the community figures out the mechanism used to protect the ROM, then you can root it and install the software you want, but that doesn't mean the manufacturer or carrier are required to make it easy for you to do so.
The zdnet article cites the recent DMCA exclusion as meaning that we have the right to put whatever software we want on the phone. That exclusion provided no such right. It says that the federal courts will not prosecute us for defeating electronic protections in the phone - it doesn't make it illegal for the manufacturers to put those protections in the phone in the first place.
It's like a law limiting the penalties for jumping a fence - such a law wouldn't make fences themselves illegal. In fact, such a law would likely lead to fences that are harder to jump since the property owners could no longer rely on threat of prosecution to keep people from trying. Similarly, the DMCA exclusion is leading to electronic protections that are harder to crack because they are now the only line of defense.
Also, if they sold you a general computing device, but restricted the software you could put on it, then we would have a right to complain because a device isn't a very general computing device if it only runs canned software. Unfortunately, T-Mobile sold us a phone and the phone has to make calls primarily, and a smartphone further should provide some data access for the phone and, nowadays, the ability to install apps through a designed mechanism. There is nothing about the class of device that we were sold that implies the ability to run an arbitrary firmware or system software. They may not be able to stop us from doing that, but they don't have to allow it.
Consider that even in a general computing device, like a PC, there are parts that run software that you cannot modify. The firmware on DVD or Blu-Ray drives tends to be fairly locked down. Nobody cries fowl about that because the DVD/BR drive was sold for the purpose of reading (and sometimes writing) approved discs, not as a general computing device that will run whatever software you choose to load on it...

Gaalaagaa,
So with that logic, you can buy, let's say any car and then just decide that because "you want" or "you can" you'll remove the stock engine and drop in anything you want and then expect the manufacturer to cover it no matter what.
I'm all for root and using my G2 how I please, but that statement is moronic.
Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using XDA App

Email to MOTO

Okay guys so we know all attempts at hacking the bootloader to circumvent the efuse hasn't worked. I feel that the only way to crack this thing open is with the keys from MOTO. Its a slim chance it will actually work but if enough people complain and flood their inboxes somethings bound to happen. maybe. hopefully. Well I sent in an email to tech support and got a cookie cutter response that you can see below. I then was playing around with possible email addresses for the Co-CEO Greg brown I finally landed on his email with the help of someone else and his email is [email protected] I sent him an email to which he forwarded to a PR person I'm guessing and got a cookie cutter response. This pisses me off. Let's do something about it. Everyone send your emails to to that guy requesting the keys. Make the subjects not all locked bootloader or he won't even look at them I'm guessing. This is ridiculous and we need to take a stand. If you don't like the idea then that's fine but to everyone else send an email.
Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2010 2:30 PM
To: Brown Greg Pres CEO-CGB025
Subject: locked bootloader
Greg,
Please provide me with the keys to my phone. I purchased this phone and I should be able to do what I want with it. How would you like it if you purchased a car and the dealership put a lock on the hood not allowing you to access the engine. You would then have to go to that dealership each time you wanted anything done even though you are a mechanic yourself. This is exactly what is happening here. I'm tired of you guys locking down devices that a consumer has purchased. If I should so choose to do stuff that would violate warranties then that's all on me. You can reply with the keys.
Thanks.
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Their reply
Thank you for contacting Motorola. Your e-mail below was forwarded to me to address for Mr. Brown.
Motorola's primary focus is the security of our end users and protection of their data, while also meeting carrier, partner and legal requirements. The Droid X and a majority of Android consumer devices on the market today have a secured bootloader. In reference specifically to eFuse, the technology is not loaded with the purpose of preventing a consumer device from functioning, but rather ensuring for the user that the device only runs on updated and tested versions of software. If a device attempts to boot with unapproved software, it will go into recovery mode, and can re-boot once approved software is re-installed. Checking for a valid software configuration is a common practice within the industry to protect the user against potential malicious software threats. Motorola has been a long time advocate of open platforms and provides a number of resources to developers to foster the ecosystem including tools and access to devices via MOTODEV at http://developer.motorola.com.
Thank you,
Anne Arroyo
Motorola Consumer Advocacy Office
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COME ON GUYS.

What's the email address? It's worth a shot.
Sent from my DROIDX

bkjolly said:
What's the email address? It's worth a shot.
Sent from my DROIDX
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It's in the OP.

Email sent I will post it when I get the response.
Sent from my DROIDX

motorola don't care
You will get the same response... they feel they are protecting the end user which is us.... but also those who don't care to mod their droid x. They are operating under the excuse that someone may take the information and create a virus that would be able to take customer information... atleast that is the bull they are feeding the public. Not using the common since in their heads say... "we left the drod 1 unlocked and nothing significately bad happened." and they also like to say it will void the warranty.. bla bla bla... so no matter what you do all you will get is bullsh*t bullsh*t BULLSH*T.... until someone comes up with a valid excuse and manages to get through to an actual person... cause I would be willing to bet that... that is an automated response based on subject slash specific words in the body. no one with any power reads them and if they see anything envolving bootloader it is replied to in that fashion no matter what.

better off
You would be better off complaining if they don't want to unlock the bootloader, then they need to come up with a better more inventive and visualy apealing UI, cause BLUR is crap.

Motorola is starting to piss me off

Ubermicro13 said:
Motorola is starting to piss me off
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Same. They say they support the open policy but that's BS. I love the phone but will probably not buy another one. That being said I knew what I was getting into prior to buying the phone with the locked bootloader/eFuse. However, this being my first android phone I didn't realize how addicting customizing could be. ie. roms/kernals. well, I can imagine how addicting it would be.

emailed
just emailed greg..

Guy, think about this for a second.
What CAN'T we do to this phone that we're already doing, besides maybe an optimized kernel? WITH efuse in place, the devs have managed to implement overclocking, voltage mods, easy rooting, system ROMing, etc. Its my understanding that with the D1, OCing and voltage mods were done by customizing the kernel. Well, here we are with the DX and doing it easily with the bootloader still locked down.
Now, I'd like to see that bootloader unlocked for the sake of doing it, but still...um, we've already gotten around much of what we were prevented from doing in the first place and all under efuse's nose.

Aggie12 said:
Same. They say they support the open policy but that's BS. I love the phone but will probably not buy another one. That being said I knew what I was getting into prior to buying the phone with the locked bootloader/eFuse. However, this being my first android phone I didn't realize how addicting customizing could be. ie. roms/kernals. well, I can imagine how addicting it would be.
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Haha I'm on the same boat as you, It is indeed addicting.

The whole point of motorola locking down the bootloader was to prevent people from gaining the type of access we want. I know that the BL situation is annoying, but I was also aware of it when I bought the device. Personally, root and tethering are all that I want; otherwise, I would have bought a DI or Fascinate.
Not trying to hate, but i have seen multiple failed "outraged email drives" directed at motorola over the months
Sent from my DROIDX using XDA App

davisbs999 said:
The whole point of motorola locking down the bootloader was to prevent people from gaining the type of access we want. I know that the BL situation is annoying, but I was also aware of it when I bought the device. Personally, root and tethering are all that I want; otherwise, I would have bought a DI or Fascinate.
Not trying to hate, but i have seen multiple failed "outraged email drives" directed at motorola over the months
Sent from my DROIDX using XDA App
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That's fine. I'm not looking for the approval of your nor anyone else. It was merely a chance for me to vent my frustration towards the man. And I know we have come far but it's more of the principle that they still have so much say with the device even though we own it.

Why don't just send them your custom ROMs so they can approve they are within their "QA"? huh?

Dany0 said:
Why don't just send them your custom ROMs so they can approve they are within their "QA"? huh?
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I agree with that. Elect a team to build the ULTIMATE ROM and send to Moto. Show them what the devs can accomplish along with our user support.
We have to provide resistance and keep the pressure on them to stop this kind of lockdown for the future of modding/hacking devices.

Why ultimate, first we have to see what kind of roms they accept and which not. Then everyone will send it's own ROM.
And then we will sue them.
And then chuck norris... oh nothing

jasonm4046 said:
You will get the same response... they feel they are protecting the end user which is us.... but also those who don't care to mod their droid x. They are operating under the excuse that someone may take the information and create a virus that would be able to take customer information... atleast that is the bull they are feeding the public. Not using the common since in their heads say... "we left the drod 1 unlocked and nothing significately bad happened." and they also like to say it will void the warranty.. bla bla bla... so no matter what you do all you will get is bullsh*t bullsh*t BULLSH*T.... until someone comes up with a valid excuse and manages to get through to an actual person... cause I would be willing to bet that... that is an automated response based on subject slash specific words in the body. no one with any power reads them and if they see anything envolving bootloader it is replied to in that fashion no matter what.
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I actually put it in my email not to give me that bull because everyone with half a brain knew it was a lie and that everyone that read it was laughing at Moto for thinking people were that stupid.
Sent from my DROIDX

SirBrass said:
Guy, think about this for a second.
What CAN'T we do to this phone that we're already doing, besides maybe an optimized kernel? WITH efuse in place, the devs have managed to implement overclocking, voltage mods, easy rooting, system ROMing, etc. Its my understanding that with the D1, OCing and voltage mods were done by customizing the kernel. Well, here we are with the DX and doing it easily with the bootloader still locked down.
Now, I'd like to see that bootloader unlocked for the sake of doing it, but still...um, we've already gotten around much of what we were prevented from doing in the first place and all under efuse's nose.
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The reason this is important is Moto's security gets tighter with every update. If we let them get away with it without at least trying to do something about it then they will continue to make security tighter and harder to work around. When other Manufacturers see that Moto got away with it they'll follow and eventually all phones will be locked down to the point that everyone is running the same Vanilla OS. The bootloader have a work around now but if we don't speak up it may not one day. They had no legitimate reason to lock the bootloader down it was just a show of force. Efuse is step one. So if you don't want Android ruined by the Manufacturers and Carriers speak up now. The Droid X is okay with a locked bootloader but they still put a leash on it and they're going to keep tightening it as long as we let them. Others will follow just watch HTC has already stared.
Sent from my DROIDX

Anyone want to start a web page for an online petition for Manufacturers not to lock down their phones? I would do it but I don't have the know how. But if we email this guy and start a web petition we have more of a voice. Call in to RadioAndroid and let the public know it's out there. This isn't just Moto we're fighting. We can stop other Manufacturs before they start or at least try.
Sent from my DROIDX

bkjolly said:
Anyone want to start a web page for an online petition for Manufacturers not to lock down their phones? I would do it but I don't have the know how. But if we email this guy and start a web petition we have more of a voice. Call in to RadioAndroid and let the public know it's out there. This isn't just Moto we're fighting. We can stop other Manufacturs before they start or at least try.
Sent from my DROIDX
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There have already been two online petitions done.

How Do I Get Rid of Static on My HD2? I Might Sue HTC

i have unbearable static on my hd2. i sent it to htc repair 2 times and they never fixed the problem. i cant use this phone if it keeps getting static. is there a way of eliminating the static? if not, then i'll have to sue htc for failing to repair it since they havent lived up to the warranty.

Static as in you can't touch the phone as it shocks you or static as in when you're around electronics, they'll make a static sound over your phone?

Skellyyy said:
Static as in you can't touch the phone as it shocks you or static as in when you're around electronics, they'll make a static sound over your phone?
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static as in static noise. everytime i call someone, theres always static noise. and whats really idiotic about htc is that the repair rep told me that they always test out the phones after they "repair" it. what a joke!

Ok everyone, i got the phone yesterday again from htc repair. and guess what? the phone is still NOT REPAIRED. whats wrong with htc? its been twice so far that i sent in the phone. and they didnt even replace it!
i told the lady rep this morning that they didnt repair it and that its been twice that i sent it. at this point i told her that i'll send the phone in a third time.. but that i better get a replacement or i'm suing.

You'll spend more on a lawyer, paperwork, and the effort in proving that *Your* phone was the problem (and not your provider).
That being said, when it comes to a faulty product that's still under warranty, you'll get more 'flies with honey than vinegar.' Stop trying to threaten them with lawsuits and just keep sending it back till either they send you a working model, your provider stops sucking, or they offer you a refund or another phone model.
Customer Service reps hear "IZ GONNA SUUU!" all the time, and they stop trying to help you the minute you say it. My advice? Stop saying it and keep working the system to your advantage.

apallohadas said:
You'll spend more on a lawyer, paperwork, and the effort in proving that *Your* phone was the problem (and not your provider).
That being said, when it comes to a faulty product that's still under warranty, you'll get more 'flies with honey than vinegar.' Stop trying to threaten them with lawsuits and just keep sending it back till either they send you a working model, your provider stops sucking, or they offer you a refund or another phone model.
Customer Service reps hear "IZ GONNA SUUU!" all the time, and they stop trying to help you the minute you say it. My advice? Stop saying it and keep working the system to your advantage.
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no, no,.. suing a company in small claims doesnt require a lawyer. if the cost of the phone doesnt exceed a small claims minimum, like $2,500 in nyc (depending on your state), you can file a claim in small claims.
its obvious that you dont know business law. i'll explain. since htc didnt fulfill the warranty, which has been passed to the new owner (me), they are obligated by law to repair it. by law, if a company doesnt satisfy warranty, the injured party has grounds to sue. a warranty is a business contract between parties. in this case, htc broke that contract.
and i'll threaten htc as much as i want since i have that right and dont need permission from you to do so. your tactic of keeping to send back the phone until htc wakes up doesnt work.. it hasnt worked in my case. and why should i waste my time constantly sending in my phone? only cowards do that. believe it or not, customer service exists to lessen the risk of litigation.
my advice? stop defending the company and defend the victim. it looks like youre a fan boy. drop the htc ass kissing and open your eyes.

koolxx said:
i have unbearable static on my hd2. i sent it to htc repair 2 times and they never fixed the problem. i cant use this phone if it keeps getting static. is there a way of eliminating the static? if not, then i'll have to sue htc for failing to repair it since they havent lived up to the warranty.
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Have you ever tried to load HSPL onto your phone to change the radio-rom? Different radio-roms perform differently; some will not work well in your particular location, which could be a reason for static in your calls.
~~~
Just to weigh in on the consecutive posting 'conflict':
I find it easier and cleaner to view one post with 2-3 quotes and accompanying responses, rather than viewing 3 separate response-posts by the same person. In some ways, I'm sure multi-quoting also saves space on XDA.
T-Macgnolia said:
GRiM-UK said:
Dude, learn how to use the edit button, no need to post 5 times in a row, which is against the rules.
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Dude he is the OP of this thread and he was just tryng to be cutiouse and respond to everyones posts. You want to talk about uncool it is uncool to make a post with such an unneeded and unwarrantied attituide. Yes member koolxx really should have used the multiple quote buttons(not the edit button as you sugested) but he as you are fairly new to XDA and is probably not use to how things work here. But he really did nothing wrong, not as far I am concerned.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
koolxx said:
GRiM-UK said:
Dude, learn how to use the edit button, no need to post 5 times in a row, which is against the rules.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you were smart you'd see that the edit button isnt needed especially when 5 of my replies were unique responses and not repeats.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nevertheless, the trolls really should stop posting in this thread. If the OP wants to sue, let the OP sue. Additional sarcastic and disrespectful posts are unnecessary, especially if at least one person already did it.

Hey koolxx to change the SPL on your HD2 to HSPL you need to download HSPL 3 or HSPL 4 by DFT. Depending on if you ever want to try to install a NAND Andriod ROM or Window phone 7 is the only factor in deciding wich one to download. HSPL 3 only goes up to HSPL 2.08 wich is what is needed to flash MAGLDR to your HD2 as MAGLDR only supports up to HSPL 2.08 right now. HSPL 4 goes all the way HSPL 3.03 but it is only good for flashing custom Windows Mobile ROMs and deferent radios right now.
After you have made your choice and have down loaded one of the HSPLs. Turn your HD2 off and then hold down the volume down button and tap the power button but continue to hold down the volume down button. This will bring up the bootloader (tri color screen) when you see bootloader you can release the volume down button. Once in bootloader connect your HD2 to your computer via USB cable and wait for the Serial in the white bar at the bottom of the phome screen to change to USB. When you see USB then you can run the utility by DFT for HSPL. The DFT utility will ask you what version of HSPL you want to install choose either 2.08 or 3.03 depending on your personal wants or needs as stated above. Also make sure you select HSPL and not SPL (hint you don't want one that has four zeros at the end). You should see a screen saying we hacked it when the HSPL is sucessfully installed. To check and see if the HSPL is installed simple cut your HD2 off and put it into bootloader and it will tell you your SPL or HSPL also you should see by Cottula in bootloader if you have HSPL installed.
One last thing though. I think you said you are in NYC so you should have a TMOUS HD2 (T-Mobile HD2) The TMOUS HD2 is not like it's EU cousin. It can not be flashed with any old radio version. You have to use a radio version that has a 50 in the third set of numbers example 2.15.50.14 notice the position of the 50. If you flash a radio version with a 51 in that spot it will brick your HD2. As all rules go just about there is an exceotion to this rule. Do not use a radio version that has these numbers in it 2.04.50.xx or 2.05.50.xx as they were used in the test devices for the TMOUS HD2 but also used in regular HD2s as well so they will also brick a TMOUS HD2.
Hope this helps you out koolxx.

koolxx said:
well i'm new to modding. how can i proceed to changing HSPL?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Note: flashing HSPL voids your warranty. If you're planning to send it in for further repairs, be aware that you'll have to remove HSPL and restore your phone to a stock SPL+ROM+radio combination before doing so. Not that difficult, but does add some extra work.
Also, at the risk of being labelled a troll, fanboy or HTC employee: either sue HTC or don't, but just threatening to sue will get you nowhere. Do you honestly think anybody you may have talked to actually cares? No matter how pissed of you might be, remaining calm and friendly will get you much better support.

T-Macgnolia said:
Hey koolxx to change the SPL on your HD2 to HSPL you need to download HSPL 3 or HSPL 4 by DFT. Depending on if you ever want to try to install a NAND Andriod ROM or Window phone 7 is the only factor in deciding wich one to download. HSPL 3 only goes up to HSPL 2.08 wich is what is needed to flash MAGLDR to your HD2 as MAGLDR only supports up to HSPL 2.08 right now. HSPL 4 goes all the way HSPL 3.03 but it is only good for flashing custom Windows Mobile ROMs and deferent radios right now.
Hope this helps you out koolxx.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
thanks, T-Macgnolia. but i think this will void the warranty and will stand against me in my potential case against htc. but, i appreciate the help nonetheless..

koolxx said:
thanks, T-Macgnolia. but i think this will void the warranty and will stand against me in my potential case against htc. but, i appreciate the help nonetheless..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes koolxx flashing HSPL will technically void the warranty on your HD2. But if you still have to send it in to HTC all you have to do is run the HSPL 4 utility by DFT to revert it back to the original SPL. You see the HSPL utility by DFT allows you to pick what version you want to install inckuding stock SPL versions too. So you are good to give it a try if you want to try a different radio but if it does not help make sure to reflash the original radio you had and then remove HSPL before sending your HD2 back in for repairs.

Thread cleaned. No more nonsense/trolling posts. If you have nothing helpful to say, don't post at all.
@OP...saying you'll sue HTC is just asking for trolls...don't make this kind of claim unless you are 100% serious about it...

the_scotsman said:
Thread cleaned. No more nonsense/trolling posts. If you have nothing helpful to say, don't post at all.
@OP...saying you'll sue HTC is just asking for trolls...don't make this kind of claim unless you are 100% serious about it...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
the_scotsman, i am seriously thinking about suing htc. i'm not kidding. i never thought this claim would bring so much fanboyism. why would i waste my time and others by making this claim if i'm not serious about it?
also, i shouldnt have to limit my free speech at the whim of trolls. doing so suggests that trolls rule this forum and that you and the other mods are powerless against them. in light of this and with all due respect, instead of reprimanding me through my freedom of speech, why dont you replrimand the trolls themselves who are the ones creating the problem in the first place? theyre the trouble makers, not me. again, i'm saying this out of total respect to you. i'm sure youre a cool guy trying to maintain order here and i dont blame you. but try to understand my stance as well.. have a good one and thanks.

Mod Edit: You obviously didn't bother to heed my warning.

koolxx said:
the_scotsman, i am seriously thinking about suing htc. i'm not kidding. i never thought this claim would bring so much fanboyism. why would i waste my time and others by making this claim if i'm not serious about it?
also, i shouldnt have to limit my free speech at the whim of trolls. doing so suggests that trolls rule this forum and that you and the other mods are powerless against them. in light of this and with all due respect, instead of reprimanding me through my freedom of speech, why dont you replrimand the trolls themselves who are the ones creating the problem in the first place? theyre the trouble makers, not me. again, i'm saying this out of total respect to you. i'm sure youre a cool guy trying to maintain order here and i dont blame you. but try to understand my stance as well.. have a good one and thanks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I recommend that you update your profile to indicate nationality and phone carrier, it will lead to better advice as to what legal options are available in your country - and give better responses overall!

stevedebi said:
I recommend that you update your profile to indicate nationality and phone carrier, it will lead to better advice as to what legal options are available in your country - and give better responses overall!
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Click to collapse
yeah good suggestion.. but i already know the legality surounding my issue. and i got a friend who's a commercial lawyer and hes giving me some advice which is positive. and hes also told me that hes seen hundreds of cases where average people hurt by the injustices of big companies, successfully sued these big companies and won.
sharing my story here is like a release for me. and will likely get others to be aware of how these big corporations act. thanks for the heads up.. i wish i didnt have to go thru legal channels since i love this phone, but htc forced my hand. well, htc will bite the bullet big time.

Doubt that htc will even feel anything of your lawsuit, unless you live in the USA. Overthere, some judges make the most random verdicts.. Furthermore, if no real physical harm has been come to you, the phone producer will most likely have to give you a symbolic dollar or at best, a new phone, and you will end up carrying the costs of the trial, because even if you win, you won't gain a thing, might lose more.. But you are free to try, I'm interested you got my attention. From my personal advice, I would advise you not to.

HectiQ said:
Doubt that htc will even feel anything of your lawsuit, unless you live in the USA. Overthere, some judges make the most random verdicts.. Furthermore, if no real physical harm has been come to you, the phone producer will most likely have to give you a symbolic dollar or at best, a new phone, and you will end up carrying the costs of the trial, because even if you win, you won't gain a thing, might lose more.. But you are free to try, I'm interested you got my attention. From my personal advice, I would advise you not to.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i dont care if htc will feel anything about the lawsuit or not. who i care about is me, the victim, not htc, a rich company. and i live in the usa. and i dont know where youre from, but in the usa, a warranty serves as a legally-binding contract between buyer and seller. this gives the injured party rights that im sure dont exist in your country. you dont need physical harm to sue, so i dont know what youre talking about. in my case, htc broke the law by breaching the warranty by not repairing the phone.
and, if you really were interested in my issue as you mentioned, you wouldve read the part where i said that suing anyone in small claims court doesnt require any fees outside registration fees where in nyc is $20. i wish you did some research before making a claim about something you obviously know nothing about.
and from your post it seems that consumers are powerless to corporations in your country. i wish your people werent so scared of corporations. i'm not. i understand theyre powerful in your country and wield a lot of power. but i wish you could take legally take a stand against their injustice. i guess i'm VERY lucky living in the usa where we have laws that offer consumer fairness that underdeveloped countries lack. and i wish you werent so negative.

Microsoft knows where you are.....

So, wp7 also tracks location, just like android and iphone, and it uploads said tracking data to ms servers,....... anyone scared??
theregister. co.uk/2011/04/27/windows_phone_location_tracking/

Let me think about that for a minute... No...

samsamuel said:
So, wp7 also tracks location, just like android and iphone, and it uploads said tracking data to ms servers,....... anyone scared??
theregister. co.uk/2011/04/27/windows_phone_location_tracking/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It looks like Google, Apply, and Microsoft are all making money off of us just carring our devices around. I want my roralty check please.

ah, so they are....so do the credit card companies....and the network carriers oh and you should know the kind of information those wee loyalty cards for supermarkets gather is staggering
I couldnt care less to be honest, the whole point of this is that yes infomation about you is taken and stored on a gigantic scale, but that info on my credit cards, my store cards my carrier usage and my WP7 isnt available to anyone but the servers they reside on.
That is the fundermental difference between MS and Apple.
you steal my phone ill be pissed off, you steal an iphone and potentially someone could find a lot about my movments.

argentocruz said:
Let me think about that for a minute... No...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hehe, no me either, just a conv starter.
On a related note, police have been using the iPhone location list (held on the phone itself, unlike wp7) to tie user to location when investigating crimes, tomtom have sold harvested driving data to Dutch police who have used it to set up speed trap stings, and two women have filed a $50mil suit against Google for harvesting their data.(not gonna fly, of course, but interesting none the less) a few days after a similar suit against apple.
As per above post tho, store cards are the big one, hugely intrusive, many hundreds of terrabytes of info every year.

WOW this is crazy information! How are they making money off us carrying their phone around?
Makes me think of that book in 1994 big brother! Only now big brother uses a larger camera with a better zoom! Crazy!

[email protected] said:
WOW this is crazy information! How are they making money off us carrying their phone around?
Makes me think of that book in 1984 big brother! Only now big brother uses a larger camera with a better zoom! Crazy!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
fixed.
And they make money by sending adds to your phone. In the future if they know where you are they can send adds from nearby shops to your device. Yup you are paying them to send you spam.

Spam but maybe not
Well if they actually get it right then maybe the ads will be helpful.
If I am in the mall to buy a pair of Jean and I get a link sent to my phone telling me that I can get 15% off at this store and 2 for 1 at that store, well good for me and them.
Also I live a vanilla life so who cares; the only people that are worried are the pervs, cheaters, and such that are afraid of getting caught.

Now I wouldn't mind that much as long as it was pertinent to my needs and consistent with my location and timing. How are you getting those ads? Texts?
I've been getting a bunch of spam calls and texts here lately and I do not list my cell number anywhere! So it must be from WP7. Am I right? I mean my number is listed in the donotcall.gov

Wow I didn't know they track android to.

Well now everyone knows that Windows Phone tracks your location and it will be saved.
Now the question is: Does anyone know how to turn it off? ^^

samsamuel said:
So, wp7 also tracks location, just like android and iphone, and it uploads said tracking data to ms servers,....... anyone scared??
theregister. co.uk/2011/04/27/windows_phone_location_tracking/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you read that article and most importand others like that in the web you will be notice that:
1. Apple - Tracks you and keep the data for a year or more. And the most importand is that
anyone who can get the hands on your phone can see all the places you where
for a year !!!!!!!!!!!!
2. Android - Keeps your data for a week
3. WP7 --Keeps ONLY one record and it replace it with the next one
THATS THE BIG DIFFERENTS

colossus_r said:
3. WP7 --Keeps ONLY one record and it replace it with the next one.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Got a source for that, please? ( not that I doubt you, just only seen "unspecified time" and "short period of time" and nothing saying one overwrites the previous one)?
Cheers

samsamuel said:
Got a source for that, please? ( not that I doubt you, just only seen "unspecified time" and "short period of time" and nothing saying one overwrites the previous one)?
Cheers
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes m8 ...i have the source ..its a source that i trust for some 20 years now...
Its Zdnet PC Magazine
from the article "
Microsoft told PCMag unequivocally that phones running Windows Phone 7 do not store location history
Microsoft says its "Find My Phone" service keeps only the phone's most recent location."
The big picture here is that Apple has lie on this matter ...
Six months ago when they say (i think) in a congress hearing that "We are not tracking location at all"
And still they say the same lie in a recent article in the "Apple's Media Center" aka Engadget blog..
This is a big big problem for me....
If anyone who can have my phone for 1 min can see where i was for the last 6 moths or a year with every detail in map....oh man ...this is bad .
This Orwel Big Brother mutliply x 1000. We have to fight against this.
The big blogs arrount the net have made a kind of omerta on this ...just an article and no more.
Probably the adds (money) from Apple are to big to start a fight ...
But this is not journalism... OK Apple is cool ..but where is your integridy as writer or as big internet blog ????
Where are all those guys that tear apart MS or any other company for minors problem ????
Thats the problem for me...Apple did this without anyone knows about it and is still deny it.
This a big big trust issue
colossus

[email protected] said:
WOW this is crazy information! How are they making money off us carrying their phone around?
Makes me think of that book in 1994 big brother! Only now big brother uses a larger camera with a better zoom! Crazy!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Seriously you didn't realize this? Have you not read any of the articles blaring security issues regarding credit card and smartphone data tracking and mining? Where have you been? You use a smartphone and you never thought about this?
Not only are you ignorant on the George Orwell's 1984, but you're oblivious to the impact of all this tech on privacy! Geez! It's DOH! and DUH! I guess the credit card and tech companies love you!!!! The typical blind sheep being led by multi-national corporations and governments.

officialbambam said:
Wow I didn't know they track android to.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Again...seriously? Geez Louise...the drones of society using tech without a care in the world.

colossus_r said:
Yes m8 ...i have the source ..its a source that i trust for some 20 years now...
Its Zdnet PC Magazine
from the article "
Microsoft told PCMag unequivocally that phones running Windows Phone 7 do not store location history
Microsoft says its "Find My Phone" service keeps only the phone's most recent location."
The big picture here is that Apple has lie on this matter ...
Six months ago when they say (i think) in a congress hearing that "We are not tracking location at all"
And still they say the same lie in a recent article in the "Apple's Media Center" aka Engadget blog..
This is a big big problem for me....
If anyone who can have my phone for 1 min can see where i was for the last 6 moths or a year with every detail in map....oh man ...this is bad .
This Orwel Big Brother mutliply x 1000. We have to fight against this.
The big blogs arrount the net have made a kind of omerta on this ...just an article and no more.
Probably the adds (money) from Apple are to big to start a fight ...
But this is not journalism... OK Apple is cool ..but where is your integridy as writer or as big internet blog ????
Where are all those guys that tear apart MS or any other company for minors problem ????
Thats the problem for me...Apple did this without anyone knows about it and is still deny it.
This a big big trust issue
colossus
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good choice of reading,,,, there's a good editorial on theregister about the legality of even collection, let alone using data harvested from a phone, since it is covered by different laws than, say, a computer, since it falls under the telecommunications act
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/05/02/device_data_collection

T-Macgnolia said:
It looks like Google, Apply, and Microsoft are all making money off of us just carring our devices around. I want my roralty check please.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
u'd be surprised , but its not voluntarily done , its the law in the usa they have to track you by telecommunication act 1996 , in effect from 2001 , a phone cant be sold in usa if it doesnt comply

souljaboy said:
u'd be surprised , but its not voluntarily done , its the law in the usa they have to track you by telecommunication act 1996 , in effect from 2001 , a phone cant be sold in usa if it doesnt comply
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I will have to try to do some reading on that act, thanks for the info.
But even though it is something mandated doesn't mean that the OS makers Apply, Google, and Microsoft are just doing it because of that. Trust me there are hidden agendas here with this whole location tracking thing be it from the government or the private sector.
George OrWell must of been able to see into the future. LOL

samsamuel said:
Good choice of reading,,,, there's a good editorial on theregister about the legality of even collection, let alone using data harvested from a phone, since it is covered by different laws than, say, a computer, since it falls under the telecommunications act
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/05/02/device_data_collection
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nice find m8..full of info in the matter...thanks...
Just an update on apples reaction ...Its a big problem for them sinse the are ready (so soon)
to release a new version of iOs to fix the location problem...
If am not mistaken its the first time that apple has reacted so fast on problem...
colossus

Sign this petition to stop htc locking bootloaders

Please sign this petition to put a stop to htc and their locked bootloaders. Takes 5secs. Even if your not getting this phone you should still sign it, so this wont happen to fututure phones.
http://www.groubal.com/htc-bootloaders-and-nand/

http://www.groubal.com/htc-bootloaders-and-nand/

Already signed and added to sig, thanks.

Signed allredy. Hope in the future we have free Android.

thanks for this. signed up. they just lost a Sensation customer because of this.

Come on people. Hit this up

Bump again..

this is just wasting of time.... you need to grow up people.

greg17477 said:
this is just wasting of time.... you need to grow up people.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That didn't even make sense. Dumbest thing I heard all day. Thanks for the laugh. Anyways back on topic, hit this up.

greg17477 said:
this is just wasting of time.... you need to grow up people.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In a way, it may be. If you think of it, MOST HTC phones come with locked bootloaders. If you have not seen already, please read:
http://androidforums.com/evo-3d-all...otloader-but-its-big-problem.html#post2725969
I signed the groubal anyway

Signed...................

e334 said:
In a way, it may be. If you think of it, MOST HTC phones come with locked bootloaders. If you have not seen already, please read:
http://androidforums.com/evo-3d-all...otloader-but-its-big-problem.html#post2725969
I signed the groubal anyway
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, its an interresting post. But this concerns mostly (if not only) us the customisers. But the avarage Joe (which is like 99,9% of the sold phones) is happy with the phone as it comes and he doesnt need open or unlocked bootloader or phone. The point is, the avarage Joe is save from bricking his phone and thats a good thing from Joes point of view and also from the phone manufacturers (they want to sell phones, not swap the damaged ones). Ofcourse i would like to get open bootloader or phone straight out of the box, but i fully understand why the companies do not want it.

greg17477 said:
Yes, its an interresting post. But this concerns mostly (if not only) us the customisers. But the avarage Joe (which is like 99,9% of the sold phones) is happy with the phone as it comes and he doesnt need open or unlocked bootloader or phone. The point is, the avarage Joe is save from bricking his phone and thats a good thing from Joes point of view and also from the phone manufacturers (they want to sell phones, not swap the damaged ones). Ofcourse i would like to get open bootloader or phone straight out of the box, but i fully understand why the companies do not want it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Bricking... that's one thing but you didn't mention the big picture.
Money
I love it, you love it, and HTC sure as hell does too. Nothing personal it's just business, business as usual... simple as that.
If it weren't for this fabulous forum I would of probably upgraded my phone twice by now if not at least once since owning the HD2, provided I had enough funds... All these "unauthorized" OS updates I'm getting has definitely been a factor for NOT upgrading my phone. That's profit loss for both HTC and the carriers that sell them. Then there's all these "unenlightened" ones who come to this forum and brick their phones because they've failed to properly follow directions. Then turn around and claim fraudulent warranty damage. I don't know how much net loss this actually costs but I'm pretty sure it's enough that it makes a difference. Either way, at the end of the day it's all about maximizing profits. This isn't a charity folks..... HTC has expensive mouths to feed.

do you really need 2 threads going? 1 in gneral and 1 in android?
presonally it doesnt bother me if they lock it or not, they are doing it for business reasons and as stated above money, i was going to reply to this yesterday but after typing out what i was going to put, most people would get pissy and *****y

calc said:
Bricking... that's one thing but you didn't mention the big picture.
Money
I love it, you love it, and HTC sure as hell does too. Nothing personal it's just business, business as usual... simple as that.
If it weren't for this fabulous forum I would of probably upgraded my phone twice by now if not at least once since owning the HD2, provided I had enough funds... All these "unauthorized" OS updates I'm getting has definitely been a factor for NOT upgrading my phone. That's profit loss for both HTC and the carriers that sell them. Then there's all these "unenlightened" ones who come to this forum and brick their phones because they've failed to properly follow directions. Then turn around and claim fraudulent warranty damage. I don't know how much net loss this actually costs but I'm pretty sure it's enough that it makes a difference. Either way, at the end of the day it's all about maximizing profits. This isn't a charity folks..... HTC has expensive mouths to feed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yeah i mentioned it (they want sell and not swap the damaged ones), but not as clearly as you did

"There has been overwhelmingly customer feedback that people want access to open bootloaders on HTC phones. I want you to know that we've listened. Today, I'm confirming we will no longer be locking the bootloaders on our devices. Thanks for your passion, support and patience," Peter Chou, CEO of HTC
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
https://www.facebook.com/HTC/posts/10150307320018084

was just gonna post the same thing

greg17477 said:
this is just wasting of time.... you need to grow up people.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ha. You got anything else to say? Didnt think so

mattfmartin said:
Ha. You got anything else to say? Didnt think so
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Haha awesome. its amazing when the people speak and those in charge actually listen.

signed it!