Link To Tutorial Blog
Hear me out on this one--I think it's a swell idea.
I'm a huge advocate of having very well tagged, chronicled, and accessible information for technical items. Being a novice myself with hacking, theming, flashing, and all the like, I always appreciate it greatly when there are really solid quality tutorials covering exactly what I want to do myself. What is it that the general population of Droid 2 users want? How to root, theme, and flash. Even for tasks as simple as running a one-touch root, some users may be frightened to try it because they're not tech-savvy and think they may load a file to an improper location, press the wrong button with their single touch, etc... Well written tutorials with screenshots make the tech world less daunting for newcomers, and that's something I definitely want to help with!
Being biased to Tumblr since I freaking love the site, I'd like to suggest that a blog be started there. I'll be making a mock-up tonight of the design, or maybe even flat out creating the blog, but the Tumblr theme creation really makes it easy to make your blog look like a fully functioning website. What's perfect about it is that you can make any blog you create into a Group Blog, which is what I propose for this "project." Multiple users are allowed to post and edit posts on the blog, so we wouldn't even have to have a shared account on the site.
I'd like to open this up to serious tutorial writers only! Each tutorial should have a minimum of two screenshots or pictures of your Droid 2 going through important steps for each subject we cover.
I understand wholeheartedly if no one would like to volunteer until they see a tutorial from me first. Once I have the blog up-to-snuff with my own web design standards, I'll dive in to how to root your phone. I might even post a few tutorials for rooting, depending on how many methods I run into.
If you're interested, you can either shoot me an email to allyouhavetolose(at)gmail(dot)com or chat me up on Skype (username: misterivanovich). Don't worry, I totally won't get [fully] naked if we video chat.
Make your way to Droid 2 Development where there are:
Directories on everything Droid 2 related, tutorials, and video tutorials...
And better yet, they are already stickied.
I did find a few nicely done tutorials, but that's just not quite the feel that I'm going for. While those tutorials are informative, they are very technical. If you take a look at Skull One's Overclocking 101 thread on droidforums.net, that's more along the lines of what I want to do (his is WAY more in depth than I care to get with my tutorials though!).
I have the beginnings of the Tumblr page done (which I will link to after I've posted 8+ times here haha), but I haven't finished editing my first tutorial just yet. Really, I'm going to be doing this half as a chronicle of my own learning, because I'm really not well versed with Android customization in any way--I've also been having quite a bit of difficulty getting familiarized with it because of the way that I learn and the way the tutorials are written. For that reason, I'll be writing my own tutorials knowing very well that there has to be at least ONE other person out there that will benefit from it haha. And if I can help one person, then that's kosher with me.
I have updated the first post with a link to the tutorial blog. Although it is incomplete in design and I haven't finished or edited the tutorial I have posted, you can get the general idea for what it is I'm going for. At least I think you can...
Again, anyone who feels like contributing, feel free to shoot me an email or get in touch with me on Skype or via PM here on the board. You are also welcome to give me suggestions for future tutorials, correct me if I've written something incorrectly, etc... All of which will be credited wherever applicable.
Though I appreciate your good intentions, your blog/tutorial thing is... well... time not being put to good use. First of all, there are already tutorials on how to SBF your phone. I would know. I wrote one almost 6 months ago. And there are others out as well.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=770224
and/or here:
http://www.kimete.com/sbfrsd.html
I don't see why you are rewriting everything unless there is a need to. Now, if you feel like my tutorial is lacking in quality or quantity, I certainly encourage you to rewrite a guide, write an updated one, or whatever. But what you are doing is recreating stuff that ALREADY exists. Additionally, you didn't even write correct directions to SBF'ing the phone. Not only incorrect, but you have incomplete directions and procedures. In my opinion, your tutorial is incredibly misleading and very inaccurate and will throw a lot of people off.
Well, even if it's not time put to good use for anyone else, I will be benefitting from my own blog. I think it will help me to understand things a bit more if I'm writing it all--sort of like how when you lead a study session, you end up being super refreshed on the topic yourself.
I'm not opposed to, with proper permission and ample credit given where due, just following other tutorials that have already been written and showing screen shots of the process that I follow as outlined by someone else. Some tutorials have no real need to be rewritten, but do lack a visual element in my opinion. I almost want to be able to know what I have to do without even reading the post and looking at the pictures (almost... I realize that's a stupid goal to take literally).
I'll check out your guide for flashing an SBF and figure out what is so terrible and misleading about mine, then I'll fix it haha. I'm not looking to replace any of the tutorials that anyone else has already done--I simply want a super compiled and organized list of them, if only for my own use. But I'm pretty sure that at least one more person out there in the world, somewhere, may eventually one day sort of be happy that I did it. :]
The reason why your tutorial is so misleading is because
1. You have no real knowledge of the topic at hand.
and 2. Because of number 1, your work is incomplete, and not
I have no problem with you taking my tutorial here on XDA and making edits and additions. Add pictures, or make additional notes, or what not. Of course, give credit where due.
But whatever you do, 1. Don't rewrite things that already exist, and 2. know what you are writing about before you write about it. My tutorial has gone through countless revisions. Additions, subtractions, rewording, simplifying the process for the end-user, troubleshooting of errors. EVERYTHING!
In all honesty, if you want to contribute, take my work, run through it on your own phone, and make additions and edits to that.
Well, I wouldn't say I don't know anything about the topic. I DID already flash a SBF to my phone before I wrote the guide, I just didn't read up more than I had to on the topic--I found out how to use RSD Lite, found the .sbf file, knew I would want to make backups first, then dove right into it. I can't say that I agree with you that my guide is really missing much as a general outline for flashing an SBF, but like I said in one of my posts already, I haven't even finished that tutorial yet! I just posted a link to it so that if anyone were interested in helping me compile it all on to the tumblr, they could see what the blog looked like and a very, very general idea of what a post would look like.
I'll certainly be going back to edit that tutorial plenty. That is, after I finish it in the first place.
allyouhave said:
Well, I wouldn't say I don't know anything about the topic. I DID already flash a SBF to my phone before I wrote the guide, I just didn't read up more than I had to on the topic--I found out how to use RSD Lite, found the .sbf file, knew I would want to make backups first, then dove right into it. I can't say that I agree with you that my guide is really missing much as a general outline for flashing an SBF, but like I said in one of my posts already, I haven't even finished that tutorial yet! I just posted a link to it so that if anyone were interested in helping me compile it all on to the tumblr, they could see what the blog looked like and a very, very general idea of what a post would look like.
I'll certainly be going back to edit that tutorial plenty. That is, after I finish it in the first place.
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I believe what the point here is rather than redo tutorials that have already been done, why not look into something new.
You know how if you read someone's phone number to yourself, then try to dial it the next day, you forget it entirely--but if you had written down the phone number, your chances of remembering it are significantly better?
It's kinda like that. Like I said, this is for my own benefit, I was just opening it up to the community to put all of the Droid 2 tutorials in one common space.
allyouhave said:
You know how if you read someone's phone number to yourself, then try to dial it the next day, you forget it entirely--but if you had written down the phone number, your chances of remembering it are significantly better?
It's kinda like that. Like I said, this is for my own benefit, I was just opening it up to the community to put all of the Droid 2 tutorials in one common space.
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Do as you desire, however I was shedding light on DarkOnion's mindset as I see it.
Related
Okay I have been on this forum for a few months now and I still consider my self a noob it seems as though that magical search feature that everyone demands us noobs use is not too noob friendly and to prove this I documented my frustration when trying to get this nandroid thingy to work.
Supposed noob thread: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=3816278&postcount=3
EDIT: I am 99.9% sure this will work with a PVT board. I am not sure about DVT BUT if you are willing to risk bricking your G1 to find out, that would be great Reboot in fastboot and make sure it says "DREA100 PVT"
First of all what the hell is a PVT board? And what the hell is fastboot??? UHh wait I have to do another search on this stupid PVT board and this stupid fastboot. Searching…..
Searched for fastboot here is what came up:
http://www.google.com/cse?cx=000825...boot+&sa=Search&cof=FORID:0&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8
After clicking several search results there is not one single post that defines exactly what fastboot is or specifically what it does.
Searching for PVT Board……
And the results were: http://www.google.com/custom?hl=en&...G=Search&cx=000825531964825142534:cqr2sjirilw
Not one single related post that clearly states what a PVT Board really is. Okay that’s out the window, maybe I can figure it out by reading how people are talking about it. Fun stuff. Unable to decypther what the hell people are talking about, NEXT search!
Okay now I want to find out what the hell a nandroid backup is.
Searching Nandroid…
Wow First success!! First result takes me to this post: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=459830
Oh no not again more words to search!!
Okay I see two strange words I do not know Busybox (wtf?) and adbd.
Searching Busybox….
http://www.google.com/cse?cx=000825...sybox&sa=Search&cof=FORID:0&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8
Results are not clear, just links me to some posts that have some RC30 release (is the RC30 busybox? That is still not clear. Other results refer to it as some kind of back up tool, I thought the nandroid was a backup tool? SO that goes out the door Next search adbd….
Searching adbd..... Nothing that directly defines what exactly adbd is, all I got was people talking about it but never directly referencing exactly what it is ( ex: “need some questions answered about adbd and debuggerd Dream android development.” Or “restarting adbd as root”) Maybe it stands for a dumb big day? God knows.
Okay back to the original Nandroid post because its really important that a noob does a back up just incase right?………
I decided to go ahead and proceed without knowing what those two words were (of course I’ll get yelled at by everyone for not searching if I make a post asking what they meant so no point in posting).
Oh this is probably my favorite part of the post!!!
LOL the easy part!!!-* How to use this (the easy part)
And below it is this sentence:
“Just boot your phone in recovery mode with the correct recovery.img (one that has adb shell as root + busybox installed with symlinks to tar, md5sum etc) and connect it to your pc/laptop/server. Then run the nandroid.sh script. If something is wrong or missing, it will tell you. “
So lets break down this sentince (as a noob) line by line.
1st line: Just boot your phone in recovery mode with the correct recovery.img
Recovery mode? I think that is the pressing of the HOME+END key or is it the END+CAM keys? Which do you mean????? My guess is the HOME+END.
2nd line: (one that has adb shell as root + busybox installed with symlinks to tar, md5sum etc) WOA dude what planet you on?!! This entire line makes no freakin sense to me. And I do not think searching will help us there. “one that has adb shell as root” WTF is the one that has adb shell???? And wtf is adb??? And symlinks to tar? Is that encrypted language for his secret lover to find him? Geez how is anyone supposed to learn by searching stuff like this?? Okay at this point im just about to give up on this whole damn back up and just live without it, next line….
3rd line: Then run the nandroid.sh script. If something is wrong or missing, it will tell you.
Umm HOW? How do I run the nandroid.sh script and on WHAT operating system? Mac, Windows, Linux??? The only thing wrong or missing is proper Instructions and good English course!!!
If you are going to post a tutorial please don’t assume that everyone knows what your talking about and skip over steps that you think are elementary when in-fact you will discover that sometimes not everyone knows what you are talking about.
BTW I found this tutorial here (where supposedly 95% of my questions are answered….. umm sure): http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=519523
Isnt this article supposedly posted to be in the pre-reading material before a noob posts questions?
This is not the only article that I found not to be noob friendly, in-fact I found very little articles that were noob friendly, here is yet another thread that I found to be rediculy confusing: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=512453
When I first went to this thread (before knowing what WIPE meant) I was like WTF is this guy crazy. Then he goes on to talk about some crazy loop (which he does not state how or where you get this mysterious loop) then he goes and pasts some code that god knows where the hell your supposed to paste it, on the phone in the command prompt or is it only in the mac????
There are soo many more threads like the ones above. It is no wonder why noobs post the same questions over and over again, its because people assume that everyone else knows what their talking about and skip what they think are useless 2 or 3 steps, well I got news for you buddy, those silly 2 or 3 steps are probably the most important steps to beginner. I am still fairly new to this forum and still am having trouble figuring out what people are talking about. I just wish that there were some kind of rules or guidelines when writing instructions or how-to guides. The ONLY guide on this entire forum that I found to be clearly written and total noob proof is this thread here:http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=502010 Everyone should take a few pointers from this person that wrote that thread, although he never stated the purpose of it at the start but that’s minor.
Sorry if I offended anyone but this is the ugly truth for us noobs, it really is hard when your first starting out and some one bashes you for asking a question that’s been asked before or the noob didn’t search. Well the search feature is not exactly that great and you almost always do not find the answer to that one noob question. And yes I am very grateful for all these great hacks and I am just posting this just out of frustration from having to constantly search and after having spent hours searching and searching. I am almost certain that I am not the only noob with this problem.
My next journey is Themes my G1 phone (God help me).
Thanks,
Abe
well the essential problem is that there will always be more noobs than not...no matter how many tutorials and guides that are posted it still will not be enough for some noobs...i did not know what i was doing myself but you first you have to understand what you are reading. so after a while after reading and searching the internet i understand what i am doing and am continuing to learn...this place was not meant to be a place for exacting directions and tutorials (ala development for Dummies)...
And i do not mean anything as an insult...i am just trying to explain that this is not an organized affair with a specific hierarchy, it is a community of developers experimenting and passing that knowledge off to others in the community.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=519523
that link is from the first or second thread on the development section...reading through those will give you a lot of the answers your looking for....
and to be honest if you do not have a clue as to what the stuff your reading is then research the internet...otherwise you definitely should not attempt any of this stuff.
All I will say Is I managed to root my phone by reading multiple threads.
I actually started reading threads before I got my phone . It was confusing but thats why I kept reading . If i didnt understand something I would read over and over again. As far as finding out what busybox was I used regular old google search for that . Heres what i found based on that search.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BusyBox.
I have learned to not soley rely on the in forum search because it doesnt always seem that helpful. I think overall what the vets what is for the "noobs" to help themselves first before having someone hold their hand.
It is pretty ironic that you bought a phone featuring Google search and now want to hack it, and instead of taking time to actually learn searching techniques you write a page long rant on your incapability to do some simple research. If you cannot figure out what some of these basic terms mean, then you shouldn't be hacking your phone in the first place.
Also, what in the hell are you talking about? You say that we are asking you to search first, hello? You only have ONE post in our community, you haven't asked us ANYTHING.
Honestly, this forum is already very organized. Granted, you are a noob, but really, it isn't all that difficult. If there is something you just really can't figure out, ask it now, I would be happy to answer it for you.
SolemnWishing said:
It is pretty ironic that you bought a phone featuring Google search and now want to hack it, and instead of taking time to actually learn searching techniques you write a page long rant on your incapability to do some simple research. If you cannot figure out what some of these basic terms mean, then you shouldn't be hacking your phone in the first place.
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Take it easy, man. What's basic for one person may be quantum theory for another. Everyone isn't the same-we all perceive and learn differently. The noobs are tired of senior members telling them to search, and the senior members are tired of noobs asking redundant questions.
Also, what in the hell are you talking about? You say that we are asking you to search first, hello? You only have ONE post in our community, you haven't asked us ANYTHING.
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I think he means other noobs have been told to search when asking a question...
Anyway, OP:
the forums are huge and contain a boatload of information. If you don't understand a tutorial or certain terms, ASK. PM the OP of the tutorial or someone in the thread that sounds like they know what they are saying. Follow devs on twitter, and read extensively. Get involved.
You have to understand that there have been hundreds of noobs that only come here to ask "OMG HOW DO I ROOT??" without wanting to understand ANY underlying details. They get caught in a bootloop, get errors, or brick their phone because they don't follow directions and they want to hold devs responsible.
These people want the easy way out, so don't be surprised if senior members and devs here are hesitant in replying to a thread that has been started countless times before. Also, every one here has a life (almost everyone ), so they may not always be available 24/7 to answer unimportant (to them) questions.
I've been with this forum for little over a year now and search function may not be the best but does help a lot. I've started out with the dash, mda, tilt and now the g1. i've just been recently been posting because everything everyone does here is great. I still consider myself a noob and still learning. Ranting like this doesn't really help, spoon feeding noobs gets tiresome and i can see why the seniors gets frustrated. All you need is the patients to read thru the posts and not get blown away with all the lingo and information overload that gets yourself more confused.
This is a community built by the community no one expects to get payed for helping out, so be thankful for what this forum bring. [/rant]
I don't see whats hard about this forum.
I just followed the guides and I was set.
This is a DEVELOPER forum, so I expect it will be a little difficult to use
You don't take physics before taking elementary school math.
That's the way I look at.
But I partially share your thoughts.
I am the first to agree that a search button or Google are your best friends.
What makes a successful search, though, is your choice or keywords or phrases. And I've run into those times that had I known the proper combination of terms to use (one's that would weed-out the bizillion of results that don't relate), I would have easily found the proper answer. I've gotten buried in search results that lead to endless threads only to find out that the Google search I did for "Android Bluetooth Cupcake" might have been better had I narrowed it further with "Android Bluetooth +"File Transfer" +application". That was probably a poor example, but you know what I mean. Searching for broad and common terms usually turns up useless results, we give up in disgust, and that's when some of the redundant posts get made. I also continue to have trouble decided whether a post belongs in the "Dream" forum or the developer forum. And we won't even go into whether they belong in the developer forum, app forum or theme forum. To me, they all cross similar boundaries at times.
There are lots of other forums that are intended for end-users with technical questions. They break things down in easier to understand terms (at least for me). Most of them link to XDA for the downloads, but they offer support on their own forums. I frequent XDA the most, but I still haunt the ubber-newbie sites as well. I still learn from them.
One last thing... It's been said that the internet is akind to the wild, wild west. Forums and mailing lists are usually the worst. If there wasn't some type of moderation/control over XDA, there would be telling how deep we would have to wade to find one meaningful post. I'm as guilty as the next person of wanting immediate answers when I think I've ruined a $400 phone. Luckily, I think the rescue tutorials here are fairly good at outlining the needed steps. No, they may not explain what's happening with each step along the way... but they do give you the necessary steps to get you out a bind. If you'll remain calm, follow the steps, not expect your hand to be held during the process, and only resort to asking for help when all else fails, you'll probably get your phone working the way you want it AND learn along the way. It's the equivalent of junior high vs a college or university. Once you make a conscious choice to go beyond what's required, you're expected to do a lot of the work yourself without the teacher constantly having to offer a refresher course on the basics.
Just my opinion.
Damn double post
so i would like to learn how to do things for my phone and possibly help with the dev community. but i know practically nothing about linux or how to do anything useful. i am looking for links or other useful information to help me get started. i have lots of time on my hands and learn pretty quick. i assume i would start with the sdk (would i use the 1.5 one since thats what our phones are currently running on, or is the 2.0 out yet? and would i try from there), but other than that have no idea what else would be useful.
so.... yeah. helpful link to good info or any good e books, or anything like that that will get me going. thanks in advance
i would use the newest SDK, 2.0.1, and make sure that it will function on the emulators for both 1.5 and 2.0.1, frankly if you arent already proficient with linux or java, this wont be a easy thing to get into. However I WILL point out how threads like this are terribly pointless... you arent helping anyone out, and frankly you're asking for information that is quite available.
thanks for nothing. other than making me feel stupid.
Some help, maybe.
ix3u said:
thanks for nothing. other than making me feel stupid.
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I've been spending quite a bit of time on the threads here, I too am in search of more information specific to the android. I don't know that I'll ever be able to contribute too much to the devs, but at least I can understand my phone better, and help out with answering questions on the forums.
I would think that starting with something like creating a theme would be a good place to start, and would get you a little more familiar with the ways of android. Then I would move up into other things, and before you know it you will be much more proficient. It's all about starting somewhere. (and having a good backup)
Here's some posts / links that I have collected that i thought might aid me when i create some time to start the same endeavor...
* Ratcom's guide to creating Theme's
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=574167
* An Android Developers Guide (with tutorials, and tons of info)
http://developer.android.com/guide/index.html
* How-to's regarding android application development:
http://www.brighthub.com/mobile/google-android/topics/guides.aspx
* Tutorials and exercises
http://blogoscoped.com/archive/2007-11-19-n27.html
I haven't looked at most of those, but hopefully they will be a good start. I look forward to the day when I start looking at them too.
Hopefully that's helpful, it's all I can offer.
Good luck, and godspeed
-AndyS-
thanks., that is more like what i was looking for
jmhalder said:
i would use the newest SDK, 2.0.1, and make sure that it will function on the emulators for both 1.5 and 2.0.1, frankly if you arent already proficient with linux or java, this wont be a easy thing to get into. However I WILL point out how threads like this are terribly pointless... you arent helping anyone out, and frankly you're asking for information that is quite available.
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Hmmm. So much for helping someone out who at least has the desire to learn and grow to be more. Communist much? or just a Liberal Democrat? I applaud him for trying. Who knows more about where to get the information other than XDA? Hell a google search on this stuff turns up mostly useless garbage anyways. Why spend hours digging it up when someone else may know a good resource.
Lets refrain from flames/rebuttals please.
I have a few FAQ's and tutorials on my site. Also checking things like my release notes and mind map (linked in v1.0 release) will help. There aren't any full on tutorials but it's just a good place for general info.
Check my sig.
As flipz stated, there's no good centralized place for organized information. The best advice is truly to search this site, and search with google. It's an uphill battle getting that base of knowledge built up to get you going. I know, I'm still working my way up the hill. I thought about putting a site together to organize and share information but that would take away too much from what little time I have to spend on rom developement.
I doub't that is really the answer you were hoping to get but unfortunately thats the grim reality of things. Perhaps someone with a lot more free time than I, will put together a site of their own and compile and organize all kinds of good information in a central place. It would truly be a boon to the android community.
obelisk79 said:
As flipz stated, there's no good centralized place for organized information. The best advice is truly to search this site, and search with google. It's an uphill battle getting that base of knowledge built up to get you going. I know, I'm still working my way up the hill. I thought about putting a site together to organize and share information but that would take away too much from what little time I have to spend on rom developement.
I doub't that is really the answer you were hoping to get but unfortunately thats the grim reality of things. Perhaps someone with a lot more free time than I, will put together a site of their own and compile and organize all kinds of good information in a central place. It would truly be a boon to the android community.
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I'd be happy to bring some writers on to my site or to host some tutorials or anything that others have written. My job offers me a lot of flexibility and free time, however like you I am spending all of it developing right now. This kitchen is kicking my butt.
Edit: We'll see if I get any hits. http://geekfor.me/news/wanted-writers-for-faq-tutorial-help/
I may be able to help. My freetime seems to come and go, but I’ve always been pretty good at making How-To’s.
What format would be best?
html,pdf,etc…
ix3u said:
so i would like to learn how to do things for my phone and possibly help with the dev community. but i know practically nothing about linux or how to do anything useful. i am looking for links or other useful information to help me get started. i have lots of time on my hands and learn pretty quick. i assume i would start with the sdk (would i use the 1.5 one since thats what our phones are currently running on, or is the 2.0 out yet? and would i try from there), but other than that have no idea what else would be useful.
so.... yeah. helpful link to good info or any good e books, or anything like that that will get me going. thanks in advance
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Click to collapse
Good thread, thanks for starting it.
I'm in a pretty similar spot. 2 weeks ago I had zero exposure to or knowledge about Android or Linux. I'm proficient with Windows. In the last 2 weeks I've rooted, flashed RA 123, 151 & then 152. I backed up, ran an optimizer .zip file, restored, flashed fresh 1.0 and learned some very cool stuff. I'm comfortable in the terminal but I'm getting to where I'm not sure what I should or want to learn next. Also, although I've done these things easily half of it was just copying instructions from one of the fantastically helpful posts on this forum. Before I learn what to do next I'd like to understand the system better. I checked out wiki and ended up bookmarking a page that explains kernal computing, and a few others, lots of reading ahead
As a noob I have tried to learn without getting in the way too much. I'm glad you admitted your noobness and asked for some direction, you're not the only one who could use it!
obelisk79 said:
As flipz stated, there's no good centralized place for organized information. The best advice is truly to search this site, and search with google. It's an uphill battle getting that base of knowledge built up to get you going. I know, I'm still working my way up the hill. I thought about putting a site together to organize and share information but that would take away too much from what little time I have to spend on rom developement.
I doub't that is really the answer you were hoping to get but unfortunately thats the grim reality of things. Perhaps someone with a lot more free time than I, will put together a site of their own and compile and organize all kinds of good information in a central place. It would truly be a boon to the android community.
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Click to collapse
Sounds like what the original replyee said but said much more tact.
I'm hoping that was a compliment in a round about way.
THIS is an amazing resource. I've stopped in there before but wasn't ready to poke around too much.
I'll see you guys/gals in the spring!
I'd like to offer some insight, but there's really not much more I could add than what's already stated and linked above. Everything you need to know can be found (usually) easily on the android developer site, or in a google search. The hard part is putting those pieces together to know what needs to be done in order to accomplish what. That's not an easy task: check out cyanogen's github projects (http://github.com/cyanogen). He's made modifications to the kernel, Android applications, core frameworks, configurations, recovery images, packaged resources/images, and more. It's not just one piece that goes into these builds.
Most of what you see around here (and this is certainly not to take away from all the great work I'm referring to, because this is just as important as everything else), are people modifying what was already done somewhere else, and making it work for their own phone. And really that's all it takes to move progress forward.
You don't have to be a linux whiz or a Java programmer to be able to make progress with your phone- you just need to understand how each particular piece works in order to make progress on that piece. If you want to make a theme, you need to know what jar or apk files contain the resources, and how to replace those images and styles. If you want to add support for the camera you need to know what linux driver it should use, and how Android expects to interact with that driver. Same for supporting accelerometer sensors, etc.
There's no definitive checklist of things you have to know before you can help development, it just depends on what what you want to help with, and your willingness to research how that particular piece works and what it would take to make the necessary changes.
maejrep,
Informative and encouraging. Thanks!
I have experimented with quite a few different ROM's, and have enjoyed trying them all out.
Just wanted to post a thought out there, and see if this would be worth pursuing or if something like this exists...
A table that compares the ROMs, version, refresh date, developers, features, additional software, bugs, etc, so folks can compare the different ROMs on one page.
Link the name of the ROM to its actual thread.
Just a thought I wanted to throw out there......
Thanks,
-Sf-
The closest thing that we have is this:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=649705
But, it doesn't lay it out all that clearly without having to go to each thread and read through. Also, it is about 5 weeks since it was last updated, and we all know how much has been done in the last few weeks (especially Froyo...).
I think this is a pretty good idea. If you want to do something like this, I'd be willing to lend a hand. I am on vacation this week so have a lot of free time anyway.
I think that we could build on that format -
Add major features, bugs, developer name, etc.
Thanks,
-Sf-
It's easier to just link to all of them... you can take the time to go through the Dev's home page. After all, that leaves it up to the topic creator to update every single ROM's bugs and updates, which you can't expect them to do.
Sure, it would be easier to do that...for the posters. But, I feel that the people wanting to check out the roms would appreciate a nice overview of features and bugs then having to wade through some of the toics which can be dozens of pages, if not more. I'll probably start working on this tomorrow, since I've been spending the day figuring out why my parents computer sucks so bad. Found it - 256MB of RAM. ugh lol
this IS a great idea...would be very hard to keep it up to date and what happens if the one guy that posted the topic falls off the face of the earth? as a lot of people seem to do.
not trying to stop it before it begins. i'm willing to comb a topic or two and submit my findings...gonna need a bunch of volunteers to do the same to get multiple ROMs listed.
dusthead said:
this IS a great idea...would be very hard to keep it up to date and what happens if the one guy that posted the topic falls off the face of the earth? as a lot of people seem to do.
not trying to stop it before it begins. i'm willing to comb a topic or two and submit my findings...gonna need a bunch of volunteers to do the same to get multiple ROMs listed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed - I have seen lists on other websites, and they still show evil eris 1.1 as the most up to date. However, that being said, we are the most active android forum out there, especially for the Eris. I think this has the best shot in being the most accurate on the web.
We already have a comparison guide.
Its called xda-developers.com!
Lazy...lazy...lazy....
Just read! Its the best way to fully understand the ROM anyways. Way better than a spreadsheet with checkmarks and whatnot.
But if someone was willing to take the time, which would undoubtedly take A LOT of time, to list pros, cons, features, bugs, versions, updates, and all that jazz, it MAY be worth looking. But we've seen stuff like this before, it gets created, and then never looked at again.
Great idea! Yes people are lazy for not doing their own homework...but there are so many ROMs out there. I have read through almost every page of topics to the 4 or 5 ROMs I have interest in, and often find myself confusing features, bugs, etc of those ROMs simply because there are SO many pages to read through and so much to keep up with(especially when some of these topics are in excess of 200 pages). Among these 200+ pages are maybe 25 pages really worth any knowledge of having about the ROM...the other 175 are filled with redundant information, outdated problems that have been solved, and off topic or unrelated posts.
DO IT!
I was kinda thinking about creating a guide on my website since I can't really think of anything else to do with the domain/server I have lol...
or if someone else wants to, I can give them FTP access to a folder and I'll just host it.
Just an idea.
es0tericcha0s said:
Sure, it would be easier to do that...for the posters. But, I feel that the people wanting to check out the roms would appreciate a nice overview of features and bugs then having to wade through some of the toics which can be dozens of pages, if not more. I'll probably start working on this tomorrow, since I've been spending the day figuring out why my parents computer sucks so bad. Found it - 256MB of RAM. ugh lol
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah... but what happens if you stop updating? And how will you determine whether bugs are just one persons or all of theirs? And almost every ROM page I've seen has the bugs listed on the first post. I'm just saying the current system isn't just "ok" it's the best way to do it. You don't have to read through the entire thread to know the bugs, you can read the first post.
Well, it looks like interest in this idea is underwhelming at best. I'd be all about putting some time into this, but not for 3 people...
Sounds good to me!
This sounds like a great idea to me. I'll admit it would probably take a great about of effort and time to create and maintain but I'd be more than willing to lend my efforts to put something like this together and help keep it up to date. For all of you who are happy with the current system, it will still be there so keep using it. I don't think this is meant to be a complete list of everything there is to know about a ROM, more of an overview (correct me if im wrong). Plus, this would be GREAT for people who've just rooted and are trying to figure out what to try first. We all know its important to read a thread in its entirety before you flash
Just my $0.02
f z o n g
TheFzong said:
This sounds like a great idea to me. I'll admit it would probably take a great about of effort and time to create and maintain but I'd be more than willing to lend my efforts to put something like this together and help keep it up to date. For all of you who are happy with the current system, it will still be there so keep using it. I don't think this is meant to be a complete list of everything there is to know about a ROM, more of an overview (correct me if im wrong). Plus, this would be GREAT for people who've just rooted and are trying to figure out what to try first. We all know its important to read a thread in its entirety before you flash
Just my $0.02
f z o n g
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Click to collapse
I agree - this list should be an "easy" way to glance over the different ROMs, and do a high level comparison. So if someone prefer's hero ports for example, they can go to the developer's page to determine if that ROM is right for them.
Just like when you research out a new computer, I usually do a high level comparison at first before I start digging into the "nuts and bolts"
I don't think it's a bad idea necessarily, I don't mean to crap all over it but here is what would need to happen:
The poster of the thread would need to understand bugs and things that have to do with the ROM's. They would need to be able to differentiate between one person's bug and a bug that multiple people are having and one that everyone is having.
The poster would need to stay updating this... what happens when they get a new phone? What happens if their computer breaks? Blah blah blah there are a thousand ways you can stop.
Really what you need is a Wiki, that way multiple people could update the information. Developers could submit their own ROM updates if they wanted and users could add reviews, comments etc.
Hungry Man said:
I don't think it's a bad idea necessarily, I don't mean to crap all over it but here is what would need to happen:
The poster of the thread would need to understand bugs and things that have to do with the ROM's. They would need to be able to differentiate between one person's bug and a bug that multiple people are having and one that everyone is having.
The poster would need to stay updating this... what happens when they get a new phone? What happens if their computer breaks? Blah blah blah there are a thousand ways you can stop.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1
for example. . . . what happens when your girlfriend kicks you out and you leave in a rage and forget your computer and storage drives. . . . (was working under the radar on something of the sort but low and behold victim of circumstance.
http://code.google.com/p/erisromtracker/
I'm primarily a web designer but know Rails as well, and a bit of PHP. I'd be willing to put some work into this, but I don't have time to do the whole thing on my own.
I'm thinking of a community-powered web app. Any registered user can edit anything. Edits can be "dugg" by other members to represent validity...I dunno, just some first thoughts.
I made the project page so that people could add ideas/etc and there would be an organized, sane place for figuring out how the whole thing would work, as well as a central repository for any work that actually gets done. It also just doesn't make a lot of sense to use a thread to do this, especially when we're trying to get around people using threads to do this.
^^^^
Eoghann said:
Really what you need is a Wiki, that way multiple people could update the information. Developers could submit their own ROM updates if they wanted and users could add reviews, comments etc.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1
And this
Much better ideas because it's not just one person's job.
Man, I guess I'm one of the lazy ones! Actually, I've been looking through all the ROMs in lust (because I can't root - yet) and I need an easy way to figure out what the main differences are. I'd be in large favor of this!
New to the whole android OS and above all LEARNING more than anything. Finally rooted and rooted correctly. What should I do now? I Have a couple of root only apps but nothing super special. I want to take my incredible to it's full potential.
Reason for this thread being started is because there isn't really any literature out there for beginners like myself. Just a bunch of gibberish that doesn't make sense. So let's take this time to expand the android community to it's full potential. Keep the flaming to a minimum because everyone is entitled to their own opinion.
I want to send another special thanks to the Unrevoked team for their stupid easy root methods.
This was my first touch screen phone in general, let alone on the android operating system. So far I have root, an overclocked undervolted kernel, I have flashed several roms, and I take advantage of the many root specific apps like wifi tether. There are threads for people who are learning and if you did a good search you would find that they would be very useful to people like you and me. I don't want to sound like I am calling you clueless but there is so much out there that is really not that complicated to learn . This attatchment is one example. http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=709220
Also I know when you first click the link it shows you confusing terminology but the point is explained in that very helpful thread. good luck.
There are a lot of searches out there yes. But that's exactly it a search query - there isn't anything that has it all in one easy to find spot. That's what I was trying to get at.
I've been through that thread MULTIPLE times and learned a ton from it. But there is NOTHING in there saying why you should or should NOT do it along with some sort of review from someone. It's almost like there is a bunch of software out there but only certain ones catch recognition. Everyone gravitates towards what the bigger names on the forums are doing. That's great yes, but you also have to remember that they use their devices for a LOT more than what most people do. So there wouldn't be a need for a full terminal app or some sort of reg editing app.
Another thing I'd like to mention is that for people like myself root really means nothing other than being able to use some apps in the market that require it and custom skinning.
If you wanted to learn the meanining of the terminology I hope this could help you.
http://www.incredibleforum.com/foru...-dummies-guide-android-terminology-lingo.html
Hi Developers,
You folks all do a great job of trying to sort out install issues and confusion regarding vendor images for our devices and whatnot and we less inclined to develop really do appreciate all you put into it for the rest of us.
That being said, one thing that I personally think should be included in the ROM's initial posting is a link to the **LINK---> FACTORY IMAGES<---KNIL** for our device.
I know that you all have the link memorized and every flavor imaginable already downloaded, but when a normal person flashes something and it doesnt work its a pain in the joint to try to remember where the list of imperatives is in the forum. The first place most look is to the thread where they were coming from.
It's ok if you flame me for this and I understand. Personally I'm usually all over it myself, but when I see questions in all of the ROM threads asking where someone got a vendor image and then they say they found it in the marlin thread it's just not right, if you know what I mean.
Anyway, thanks for considering it.
Regards,
Dtrud0h
If users don't know where the factory images page is they really shouldn't be unlocking their bootloader.
Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk
dtrud0h said:
Hi Developers,
You folks all do a great job of trying to sort out install issues and confusion regarding vendor images for our devices and whatnot and we less inclined to develop really do appreciate all you put into it for the rest of us.
That being said, one thing that I personally think should be included in the ROM's initial posting is a link to the **LINK---> FACTORY IMAGES<---KNIL** for our device.
I know that you all have the link memorized and every flavor imaginable already downloaded, but when a normal person flashes something and it doesnt work its a pain in the joint to try to remember where the list of imperatives is in the forum. The first place most look is to the thread where they were coming from.
It's ok if you flame me for this and I understand. Personally I'm usually all over it myself, but when I see questions in all of the ROM threads asking where someone got a vendor image and then they say they found it in the marlin thread it's just not right, if you know what I mean.
Anyway, thanks for considering it.
Regards,
Dtrud0h
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I always just do a GOOGLE Search - "Factory Images Pixel Sailfish" and it comes up as the first or second link every time. Easy Peasy. I think you have to remember, it is not the Developers place to make life easy for anyone. They already did all the work by creating the rom in the first place. Everyone flashing a rom takes on a major responsibility to know what they need to do if something doesn't go right. if they can't figure this out by searching - or at the very least by TRYING to search first, they should never try in the first place. Of course if they do try on their own to figure something out and still need help - I am sure they will find it by asking.
Too many people have gotten to the point of EXPECTING the developers to hold their hand while they flash roms - why is it the developers place to do that? They didn't hold a gun to the persons head when they flashed - and frankly, I believe they expect each of us to at least try to find things out on our own first - they already put a huge amount of work into creating the rom and then chose to allow us to use it as well. I think they have done enough -
Just my two cents.
joetheshmo said:
If users don't know where the factory images page is they really shouldn't be unlocking their bootloader.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Very true, but it seems a lot of people are doing so. I dont recall a new phone that had so many noobs to flashing. Not complaining, I help them out a lot. Just an observation.
And no, not the devs responsibility to help them. And if they posted links for flashing stock they would get inundated with requests to help with that.
Some phone forums on XDA are more user-friendly than others for flashing ROMs. It used to be so easy and I was (I thought) a pro - I helped others a lot. This phone confuses me more. You learn by doing, but people also don't want to risk $800 phones for the sake of learning.
I personally think it would be nice to include all crucial links as well, but most people on this forum are more inclined to believe you should just find it yourself, haha. I got a "let me Google that for you" response to a question this month, I recall.
When I was back in the Galaxy S3 or HTC One M8 forums, things were a little more noob-friendly but this place is full of nice people who help. It's just harder to do it yourself (without research or asking) because the threads are written at a more advanced level, in my opinion, and the steps are more complex than they used to be.
I agree, some forums are much more friendly than others. It is also easy for the ones that get in on the ground floor than it is for the ones that get in later. People sometimes answer questions in a more complex manner than is needed and probably without realizing it. Throw that in with someone that maybe hasn't had an unlocked bootloader in years and you have some uneasy and nervous people. Yet these guys have a right to get in there, get their feet wet, and eventually contribute. Imagine how clean a Dev's thread would be if not only a link to the firmware was given but if only a vendor image was needed, then that was provided as well. There would fewer questions about the little things and people going back and forth with one another about how stupid or lazy people are on one hand, and how unhelpful or rude people are on the other. I'm not a Dev though.
I agree with you all. lol. It is not the devs responsibility to make sure that your grass is covered, it's usually the first thing in all the threads, **Your Own Risk** I think are the key words. I haven't built any roms but I can get around the platform tools pretty well. But for the sake of keeping the rom threads clean and informative, especially with all the new variables related to most notably the Pixel, but android flashing in general supplying the correct files would probably cut thread clutter down by 40% and with uniform installs bug tracking would be a bit easier.
Anyway, thanks for looking and thinking about it, I appreciate all the points of view expressed.
I'm not complaining about anything, but I originally posted this in the Development Forum and it got moved to Guides and News...Whatever.
Starting to get a stiff neck from shaking my head at the posts in the rom threads, one right after the other asking where to find files, among other things that the user should know.
Just sayin'