Database Users

Need perm root to ROM?

Im not a big developer or hacker of any sort and so i just have a quick simple question. Dont get mad at me for not knowing. But do we NEED a perm root to be able to use ROMS? What happens if we use a rom without perm root? A bricked phone? Erased data? Ive always been wondering this and never came across an answer or a similar thread
Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using XDA App

hawaiian.monzta said:
Im not a big developer or hacker of any sort and so i just have a quick simple question. Dont get mad at me for not knowing. But do we NEED a perm root to be able to use ROMS? What happens if we use a rom without perm root? A bricked phone? Erased data? Ive always been wondering this and never came across an answer or a similar thread
Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Tmobile included the chip so it will revert back to stock if it is rooted, therefore eliminating the possibility of a brick. If you call cust support and tell them you are having issues because you tried to root your g2, all they have to say is "reboot your phone." I think tmo did this because of the slew of customers calling cust support when they bricked their g1/mt3gs. Therefore, it is the inexperienced user's faults that tmobile had to install the root kit. If noobs didn't brick their devices so prevalently and ask tmobile for help with their mess up, there wouldn't be a need for the chip.
Sent from my HTC Dream using XDA App

ad505 said:
Tmobile included the chip so it will revert back to stock if it is rooted, therefore eliminating the possibility of a brick.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ugh. This is not only false, but has been repeatedly debunked. There is no chip, mechanism, or anything else that "reverts" the phone back to stock.
The NAND itself is set to be read-only at boot, and no one has yet succeeded in disabling this protection. When people root the G2 and make changes to the system, these changes only appear to be present because the Linux kernel is caching them. They are never written to the device, and so at next reboot (or earlier, when the caches are flushed) they disappear.

itp said:
Ugh. This is not only false, but has been repeatedly debunked. There is no chip, mechanism, or anything else that "reverts" the phone back to stock.
The NAND itself is set to be read-only at boot, and no one has yet succeeded in disabling this protection. When people root the G2 and make changes to the system, these changes only appear to be present because the Linux kernel is caching them. They are never written to the device, and so at next reboot (or earlier, when the caches are flushed) they disappear.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok, chip or not, the "reboot unroot" was because folks bricked their devices and asked tmobile for help, flooding their customer support and overwhelming their resources. It makes perfect sense to me why this was included in a flagship device like the g1's successor.
Sent from my HTC Dream using XDA App

Its a bug. Don't give tmobile too much credit.
Sent from my HTC Vision G2

luis86dr said:
Its a bug. Don't give tmobile too much credit.
Sent from my HTC Vision G2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
More like "Unfortunate side-effect of being read-only but appearing as read/write to the OS."
In normal circumstances, it's not an issue (being that nothing needs /system to be r/w for normal operation.) Technically you are operating it out of spec, since you re-mounted /system as r/w.
Not that I agree with it, it's ****ty (and the main reason I returned my G2.)
To answer the OP, yes - two things need to happen before ROMs can be released:
1) Permanent NAND unlock
2) Recovery (Clockwork Mod or similar) to write the ROM to un-locked storage.
Until both of these happen, ROM development is at a standstill.

luis86dr said:
Its a bug. Don't give tmobile too much credit.
Sent from my HTC Vision G2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What on earth makes you think it's a bug rather than a deliberate HTC feature?

keenerb said:
What on earth makes you think it's a bug rather than a deliberate HTC feature?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
One could argue that the controller lying about syncs to "disk" is buggy behavior. But it's clear that it's very much deliberate.

How is it clear that it's deliberate? It only serves to let us mess around with our phones through a temporary root. It doesn't add to the underlying cause that we haven't rooted the phone.
At least, thats what I gathered from the wiki.

Uhhhh....sooooo.....what's the need for a perm root to use a rom again? Either no one answered or I completely missed it and I don't think I missed it haha
Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using XDA App

You're only making changes to the cache, so after using the phone for awhile, parts of the cache get emptied out, and they just go away. This is why when you have temp root, after enough time, your phone will just restart.
I've seen that theres work to get ROMs loading from SD cards, I haven't checked into this myself, so it might just be a pipe dream, but still, do you really want to run everything from your SD card?
At this point, it works better (and longer) to have temp root, and make small changes here and there.
And please someone correct me if I'm wrong on any point.

hawaiian.monzta said:
Uhhhh....sooooo.....what's the need for a perm root to use a rom again? Either no one answered or I completely missed it and I don't think I missed it haha
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In fact, there is no such thing as permanent root. There is only root, the problem is that anything you do while being rooted is not preserved, as the memory card where the system is is write-protected. So you can't modify the system and make the root available permanently.
And to your question - no, you don't need permanent root to use ROMs. But permanent root needs write access to system and custom ROMs also need write access to the system. So they don't depend on each other, but both depend on another feature - the write access to the system (the integrated memory card, eMMC). Once you get write access, both problems ("permanent root" and custom ROMs) will be solved.

faugusztin said:
And to your question - no, you don't need permanent root to use ROMs. But permanent root needs write access to system and custom ROMs also need write access to the system. So they don't depend on each other, but both depend on another feature - the write access to the system (the integrated memory card, eMMC). Once you get write access, both problems ("permanent root" and custom ROMs) will be solved.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Technically, you only need recovery. But the fact of the matter is, they go hand-in-hand. Once one is compromised, the other is as well. This has been the pattern with HTC thus far anyway...

hawaiian.monzta said:
Uhhhh....sooooo.....what's the need for a perm root to use a rom again? Either no one answered or I completely missed it and I don't think I missed it haha
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I answered here
No roms until those two things happen.

ad505 said:
Ok, chip or not, the "reboot unroot" was because folks bricked their devices and asked tmobile for help, flooding their customer support and overwhelming their resources. It makes perfect sense to me why this was included in a flagship device like the g1's successor.
Sent from my HTC Dream using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you think this is about anything but control, you're sorely mistaken. They do this because they can, and because they have commitments to Amazon, Photobucket, and every other pre-installed crapware provider they have a contract with to guarantee the user cannot remove their app.
If it's about bricked handsets, why not take the Nexus One approach: Make rooting trivially easy to do - anyone wishing to do so will likely take the path of least resistance. Once rooted, HTC/T-Mo can visually identify a rooted handset and decline warranty service. Problem solved.
franky1029 said:
How is it clear that it's deliberate? It only serves to let us mess around with our phones through a temporary root. It doesn't add to the underlying cause that we haven't rooted the phone.
At least, thats what I gathered from the wiki.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's deliberate because of the whole history behind it. S-ON, write protection, read-only partitions, gold cards, subsidy unlocking, etc. This arms race has gone on for years. All of this is done deliberately.
T-Mobile has an interest in making it as difficult as possible to use the handset on a different network, or use apps they don't like (which, btw, they have not started revoking yet, just wait, it's a matter of time...) Likewise, HTC has an interest in making their customer (T-Mobile) happy.
HTC doesn't give a **** that you, the end user, are unhappy. Their client is T-Mobile.
None of this will change until we (as customers) stop putting up with it, stop buying subsidized handsets from the Provider channel, and start buying un-subsidized handsets straight from the manufacturer. Unfortunately, this isn't going to happen in the U.S. for quite a while - people are too dumb to know what they are doing...
It was no accident that the device is designed to make writing to /system difficult. It was no accident on any other HTC handset either.
Why would you want temporary root over persistent root? It doesn't serve us at all - it only makes it harder on them (HTC - in the long run) once someone like Unrevoked roots it forever.

[Q] Can't get S off

Rooted a friend's phone using visionary, put root folder on SD card, followed Prompts in terminal emulator, reboot and S still show's on.. any suggestions.. I never had this problem rooting my own mytouch.. & The phone hasn't been updated, still running 2.2.1

Check out the Post Your eMMC thread in the general section, it will tell you how to check which one the phone has using terminal emulator. Phones with the "bad" eMMC cannot be rooted using the root.sh method, but can be with g-free.

King350z said:
Rooted a friend's phone using visionary, put root folder on SD card, followed Prompts in terminal emulator, reboot and S still show's on.. any suggestions.. I never had this problem rooting my own mytouch.. & The phone hasn't been updated, still running 2.2.1
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Root via gfree method...
Sent from my HTC Glacier Sense 3.0 using XDA app

King350z said:
Rooted a friend's phone using visionary, put root folder on SD card, followed Prompts in terminal emulator, reboot and S still show's on.. any suggestions.. I never had this problem rooting my own mytouch.. & The phone hasn't been updated, still running 2.2.1
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Before I learned about this website I had rooted my phone using the tutorial from the unlockr's website, gfree method.. Worked great.

saranhai said:
Root via gfree method...
Sent from my HTC Glacier Sense 3.0 using XDA app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
you need to be careful before throwing out the idea that ./gfree is a fix all. It's not. It's a huge problem on phones that have bad eMMC chipset.

neidlinger said:
you need to be careful before throwing out the idea that ./gfree is a fix all. It's not. It's a huge problem on phones that have bad eMMC chipset.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yea... That's what happened to my old MT4G
Best suggestion is to just keep stock.
Sent from my HTC Glacier Sense 3.0 using XDA app

Does that mean I shouldn't put custom roms on my phone? What if I get bored?

U can also use launchers and home replacements if u get bored wit stock
McSurge45 said:
Does that mean I shouldn't put custom roms on my phone? What if I get bored?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sent from my HTC Glacier using XDA App

McSurge45 said:
Does that mean I shouldn't put custom roms on my phone? What if I get bored?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I wouldn't say don't put roms on your phone EVER.... but before you do make sure you check what emmc chip you have. If you have the bad one you're sort of giving your phone a death sentence by rooting with gfree. It might last a good while, but most likely your phone will brick itself at some point. And considering the root.sh method doesn't work with the bad chip, gfree is your only option.
Basically, if you have the good chip feel free to flash roms to your delight, AFTER YOU INFORM YOURSELF HOW. But if you have the bad chip just know that your phone is at risk of dying if you root it.

AlanB412 said:
I wouldn't say don't put roms on your phone EVER.... but before you do make sure you check what emmc chip you have. If you have the bad one you're sort of giving your phone a death sentence by rooting with gfree. It might last a good while, but most likely your phone will brick itself at some point. And considering the root.sh method doesn't work with the bad chip, gfree is your only option.
Basically, if you have the good chip feel free to flash roms to your delight, AFTER YOU INFORM YOURSELF HOW. But if you have the bad chip just know that your phone is at risk of dying if you root it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have rooted and unrooted my phone(with the bad chip) many times, which writes to the emmc and power cycles it and flash at least 5 ROMS a week and flash back to nandroid backups as well during the week, so saying the bad chip and gfree combine is the issue is not true... There are cases of the root.sh emmc failure as well just not as many.... There is something more at bay with the bad emmc that has to be a common fail point not known yet. Cause as much as my chip has been power cycles and written to, it should be the first to fail! Just my two cents...
Sent from my HTC Glacier using XDA Premium App

irrelephant said:
I have rooted and unrooted my phone(with the bad chip) many times, which writes to the emmc and power cycles it and flash at least 5 ROMS a week and flash back to nandroid backups as well during the week, so saying the bad chip and gfree combine is the issue is not true... There are cases of the root.sh emmc failure as well just not as many.... There is something more at bay with the bad emmc that has to be a common fail point not known yet. Cause as much as my chip has been power cycles and written to, it should be the first to fail! Just my two cents...
Sent from my HTC Glacier using XDA Premium App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1 I have heard more horror stories about root.sh and visionary method failures then gfree method there's got to be more to the story then just the bad emmc chip and using Gfree to root. I used Greer to root as well and have bad emmc but good display and I'm a crack flasher, tho I've slowed down a bit after finding my 3 favorite roms.
Sent from my HTC Glacier using XDA Premium App

@Irrelephant & DrunkBastard
I don't intend to discount your experiences with what I said. Like I posted before, I have read about plenty of people with bad chips who have spent a long time flashing and reflashing their phones, so I can totally believe that you guys haven't had any problems with it or gfree. And considering the nature of rooting I can also believe that people have messed their phones up with the visionary method as well, especially since I actually was one of those people. However, I was fortunate enough and informed enough to fix it without any lasting damage.
As you said, the emmc chip problem is something that nobody is entirely sure about, but the general consensus seems to be that they are much more likely to fail when you have the bad model, whether or not you have rooted your phone or flashed roms or anything. I've even read some cases where people with entirely stock phones have had it fail on them.
On top of that, the gfree method, while very reliable, relies heavily on that chip. I can't honestly say that I know the exact processes that are different between the visionary method of rooting and the gfree method, but from what I've read gfree is more of a hardware oriented approach to achieving s off while visionary is more software oriented. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, I'm here to learn just like everyone else.
I guess it was sort of bold(and grim) for me to say that having a bad chip and then rooting it was a death sentence for your phone. What I was trying to get across was that the bad chips definitely do have a worst reputation. And while anybody who wants to root their phone should try and be as well informed of the risks and processes as possible, I think that if you have a product with a bad reputation you should read up about the problem and what extra risks it may cause.
ALL of the evidence doesn't point towards death sentences for bad chipped phones, but a lot definitely points to major problems with the bad chips, and that's something people should know about, particularly if they are one of the people who have it.
So in the end, people just need to try and make well informed decisions about what they will do with their phones(and the same can be applied to life I guess). That's what I was trying to get across. Sorry if I bothered you guys with my strongly worded post before, I just wanted to make sure people knew what they were getting into before they jumped into the pool.
____________________________________
Sent from the AFB Corporation's Main Communication Portal

AlanB412 said:
As you said, the emmc chip problem is something that nobody is entirely sure about, but the general consensus seems to be that they are much more likely to fail when you have the bad model, whether or not you have rooted your phone or flashed roms or anything. I've even read some cases where people with entirely stock phones have had it fail on them.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That.
Moreover, I had an experience with Desire S (HTC Saga) with the aforementioned "bad" chip, and I can confirm it's prone to failure even in completely stock form. The "bad" chip seems to have a bad production run or post-silicon verification issues, since there are many perfectly fine specimens, yet more than enough reports of failing devices, not necessarily rooted. Of course, vast majority of reports on XDA would be of rooted devices, since this is what XDA is about.
Judging by the time-to-failure reports for those chips, it's probably safe to say that 2-3 weeks of heavy use would be a good checkpoint - if a chip is prone to failure, it'll fail within 2-3 weeks of heavy use, and if it didn't fail - it'll most likely serve the regular lifetime of eMMC (which isn't eternal either).
There was an interesting hypothesis for this chip's failures in one of the threads at Desire S section, which might be worth checking. It was said that the chip is most likely to fail when it has power failure (intentional or not) during write cycle. Which means, pulling the battery while installing the app, for example, has a high chance of bricking a completely stock device.

i totally agree with both of you guys!!! and as jack stated, i think there was just a bad production run, or lot run for that matter... but all in all, rooting your phone is taking a chance since there are always unknown variables that could come to play. i have noticed that my phone with the bad chip has always been a bit more wonky that the one with the good chip, but i continue to use the bad one to flash away with because it was the one i started all the crack flashing on and if it fails, then it fails! i kinda wish it would fail so that i can start poking around at it to see what craziness i can find in there... i am all about troubleshooting things and if all else fails then i can send it in under insurance!
i think people should read and know what could happen and make a choice based on that, but i see too many ppl trying to scare off users because they have the so-called bad chip... but the bad chip has been good to me over a yr now and i continue to abuse this bad boy more than the average user!
and nothing anyone says on here is going to get me BUTT HURT, i am always open to a good debate on a controversial topic... so long as it is civil that is, cause if it gets ignorant, then i just leave it at that... to in the end, thank yall for holding open debate with me as it keeps me informed and thinking!!!

I wish you could buy the phone and pick the rom it comes with......

[Q] Gotta be a way to stop this BS,Android Frameworks/Acorn fc

Im gonna try to make this short because im sure alot of people have expirienced this.
Almost every Epic rom i ever flashed sooner or later i get "process com.google.process.gapps has stopped unexpectedly" or "Android.process.acore" fc or some similar bull**** that has to do with Google Frameworks usualy.
Like today i started getting Frameworks fc,so i cleared date/cache for almost all apps trying to fix it.I rebooted and now on top of Frameworks fc i get Android Acorn fc and Gingerbread MTF fc!
So im like fck it im just gonna do system restore(which i was trying to avoid).
Did system restore wiped data/cache/sdcard/dalvic cache 3 times and what happens?I get same damn Google Frameworks/Acorn/MTG fc's after reboot!
Only way to fix this problem is to reflash the rom.
What causes it?IDK,i suspect its bacause my girlfriend(bacause it happens mostly when she has it) lets the phone's battery die while txting/calling but my roms are Journaled so that shouldnt be a problem,right?
Anyways is there a fix/prevantion for this sht without having to reflash?
Just when i think i found the right rom it happens again.This happens sooner or later on any rom,or is this something that android users gotta live with?
Update:
WTF i just reflashed and now im stuck at Samsung logo,i guess its Odin time and hate to say this but might be WP7/WebOS/iPhone time.

Don't mean to be a deuscher or anything but have you tried deodexed stock? Never had those issues on my heavily modified stock before.. (Might as well be my own cooked rom, though changed/tweaked realtime with my cell on) lol. =)

Shinydude100 said:
Don't mean to be a deuscher or anything but have you tried deodexed stock? Never had those issues on my heavily modified stock before.. (Might as well be my own cooked rom, though changed/tweaked realtime with my cell on) lol. =)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanx,im might try that.I think it might be ext4 that does it because i dont think i had them problems on rfs-i cant even remember last time i used rfs.
I kange my own roms too but i always prefered to use lightweight roms like Syndicate for foundation.But if stock rfs is more stable than it will be a good trade.

I always get gapps errors when I copy something to the system\app folder. I have started to use flashable zips instead and clear Dalvik before booting and have not seen that problem again. It doesn't sound like you are doing any of that but any theme or mod that is flashed and doesn't wipe Dalvik may cause this as well. Hope this helps. You may also just have a finicky phone...lol.

My phone isn't rooted and I got that. Fo me it had to do with the gmail app sync. Once I stopped that no more fc. I use the samsung email app that on the phone now.
Sent from my non-rooted Epic 4G using the free XDA App

I blame my girlfriend too.
Sent from the future.

Take this how you want. I had this problem span over 5 nand backups one day, 5 that I knew where all good when I did a backup (and had restored before with no FC's. Then one day on eg22 all hell broke out, I was doing so much that day I can't narrow down what happened. Then I restored a backup,,, what, still getting framework fc's; Tried another, then another. 5 times same problem. I odined back to DI18 and let it OTA, then installed cwm and restored my laszt backup. Everything has worked since.

I have this problem every so often on srf. Only fix I know is to reflash the rom then restore a backup. This usually happens when my phone reaches 0% and dies. Has happened over 10x
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App

lviv73 said:
i suspect its bacause my girlfriend(bacause it happens mostly when she has it) lets the phone's battery die while txting/calling but my roms are Journaled so that shouldnt be a problem,right?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Journaling isn't a panacea.
When there's sudden power loss (battery pull or death) on a journaled file system, the file system should be in a consistent state on bootup, but individual files can still become corrupt.
If that happens, doing a "Clear data" on all apps that force close should fix it. In the worst case, a "Factory data reset" should work as well, without having to resort to a reflash.
I don't know if RFS does full data journaling or not, but I suspect it does. Anecodtally, these types of issues appear to be much rarer on RFS, which is part of the tradeoff to RFS suffering from additional lag (to ensure writes happen timely).
As general advice, if you are going to run ext4, journaled or not, avoid power loss as much as possible.

puff601 said:
I have this problem every so often on srf. Only fix I know is to reflash the rom then restore a backup. This usually happens when my phone reaches 0% and dies. Has happened over 10x
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just as i suspected.It happens on rfs too or just ext4?
I would think thats what Journaling was for so something like this wouldnt happen.
So this is a problem on any android phone i take it,google needs to fix this.
What regular nontech people supposed to do?System restore everytime their phone dies?lol.

mkasick said:
Journaling isn't a panacea.
When there's sudden power loss (battery pull or death) on a journaled file system, the file system should be in a consistent state on bootup, but individual files can still become corrupt.
If that happens, doing a "Clear data" on all apps that force close should fix it. In the worst case, a "Factory data reset" should work as well, without having to resort to a reflash.
I don't know if RFS does full data journaling or not, but I suspect it does. Anecodtally, these types of issues appear to be much rarer on RFS, which is part of the tradeoff to RFS suffering from additional lag (to ensure writes happen timely).
As general advice, if you are going to run ext4, journaled or not, avoid power loss as much as possible.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thats exactly how i tried to fix it,wiping data and cache on all system apps and all that got me was even more unfixible fc's.
For example:After i cleared cache for frameworks i started getting more anoying Gingerbread MTF fc every 20 seconds,lol.Yeah i tried clearing Gingerbread MTF cache/data and i still got the fc's even after system reset.
Now i see why Android is not doin good in corporate world,people need something reliable.

lviv73 said:
Thats exactly how i tried to fix it,wiping data and cache on all system apps and all that got me was even more unfixible fc's.
For example:After i cleared cache for frameworks i started getting more anoying Gingerbread MTF fc every 20 seconds,lol.Yeah i tried clearing Gingerbread MTF cache/data and i still got the fc's even after system reset.
Now i see why Android is not doin good in corporate world,people need something reliable.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How many 'Berrys on corp accounts do you see that are as heavily modified as our androids??? And to be fair, the Epic still really isn't even 'done'... by the time they released EC05, it was pretty obvious that they were already planning GB, so maybe after GS2 launch, we will get source, CYM, Miui, etc... and a stable stock rom of course... then i can feel comfortable giving this to my GF when I get a GS2 I love my epic, but I hate her intercept more than any phone I have ever witnessed. Point is, kind of a bad phone to use as reference for relating it to business phones, also as we are on a hack site, most companies either prefer or insist you dont **** with their phones. I think it has been said that android will be getting more and more stable... by what, everyone? You just happen to have an early adopter phone, we are the guinea pigs who pay for R&D and find the flaws. The way the android world is shaping up, it looks as if its only getting better. I love that I was in work training, for a relatively technical position, and all but 2 out of 12 people had androids, the others had iphones and little to contribute to the BS discussions.

ungovernable1977 said:
How many 'Berrys on corp accounts do you see that are as heavily modified as our androids??? And to be fair, the Epic still really isn't even 'done'... by the time they released EC05, it was pretty obvious that they were already planning GB, so maybe after GS2 launch, we will get source, CYM, Miui, etc... and a stable stock rom of course... then i can feel comfortable giving this to my GF when I get a GS2 I love my epic, but I hate her intercept more than any phone I have ever witnessed. Point is, kind of a bad phone to use as reference for relating it to business phones, also as we are on a hack site, most companies either prefer or insist you dont **** with their phones. I think it has been said that android will be getting more and more stable... by what, everyone? You just happen to have an early adopter phone, we are the guinea pigs who pay for R&D and find the flaws. The way the android world is shaping up, it looks as if its only getting better. I love that I was in work training, for a relatively technical position, and all but 2 out of 12 people had androids, the others had iphones and little to contribute to the BS discussions.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Easy man,lol.Im only stating an article that i read on one of the android sites about android os not doing good in corprate world and ios and bb beating them at it.

Lviv, did you read everything in the rom's you installed? I'm pretty sure as someone mentioned in this thread somewhere it said turn of sync. These rom's are built on leaked sources. Unless your on froyo none of gb rom's are built on an official release.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using xda premium

edfunkycold said:
Lviv, did you read everything in the rom's you installed? I'm pretty sure as someone mentioned in this thread somewhere it said turn of sync. These rom's are built on leaked sources. Unless your on froyo none of gb rom's are built on an official release.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They all froyo.This just happened to me on Revolution rom which is really nice if not the best i used so far.It also happened to me on few Syndicate roms and Bonsai and few more.
Plus i always have my sync off or just background data on,i never leave auto sync on because it drains battery.
Like someone said on here its brobably because phone's battery reaches zero while performing some task or Sprint spyware removal might have something do with it or ext4.
Im gonna try rfs and stock and see what the problem is.
Its just rediculous because my roms never lasted for more than two months without this happening,and as someone stated before that it happened to them even on stock unrooted phone.
There are threads all over the internet on this problem with different fixes that mostly dont work.

I experianced the same thing with two different roms this week and went back to acs bamboozle with eho6 modem and its all working perfect now.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using xda premium

EU bug

I keep on hearing this EU bug here and there .....I have some questions regarding this .....
1,why does this happen?
2,will it affect only vibrant running ics or even jellybean?
3.how can I bring back my vibrant to normal? (don't post me regarding those guide I need breif steps).........thanks for helping

Answers (sort of):
akarshfrevr said:
1,why does this happen?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1. No one knows why it happens yet. Seems the earliest case had been around February for the Vibrant (before it got a real name like EUbug. Happened to Jasonhunterx)
akarshfrevr said:
2,will it affect only vibrant running ics or even jellybean?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
2. There has been a crap-ton (this isn't metric or imperial but is a valid form of volume in my realm) amount of speculation, attempts, theories, support, more speculation all in the [Guide] Encryption Unsuccessful - Reset Android thread in the Captivate side of things. Me, Yosup, Mr_Psycho, DerT, Silvercrown, Swehes,...have all contributed to it over time but no one can get to the *root* of the problem. Even Adam Outler and Cyanogen themselves don't know why. There is also a Reference thread going too and is located here ---> [REF][ICS] Encryption Unsuccessful Reference
Here is a recent post I had over there with a brief synopsis of devices effected and ROMs/Kernel.
Bottom line, is there is no solution yet, although some users have reported getting their /data back but have no idea why or how. Further bottom line would be, if you don't want to get hit or roll the dice with the EU bug, STAY ON FROYO OR GB builds. **Sorry for the Bold CAPs but that is an important part that many should read. So far I haven't heard anyone on JB get hit with it, but that doesn't mean it isn't out there. Was Months before ICS users realized what was happening and then it was too late.
akarshfrevr said:
how can I bring back my vibrant to normal?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Short answer: You can't (yet). Some really bright minds are working on it but many users on both sides have left the Vibrants and Cappy's behind in pursuit of newer and shiny models. I fear that we might not find a solution and if we do, this device will be close to 3 years old and while it still rocks hard, is considered a dinosaur in mobile phone tech. And that to me is too bad.

agreed @ WOOD im yet to upgrade /update or renew my contract with Tmobile i dont know what i want to do anymore ever since the Vibrant it was like now all i think of is ..is there DEVing going on with this and that phone lol i wanted the Blaze 4g because the dual core SNAP Dragon s3 but i saw little to no dev on there still trooping out the Vibrant hardcore lol with great deal of DEV's was so sad to c FISH leave my heart SANK lol

Woodrube said:
Short answer: You can't (yet). Some really bright minds are working on it but many users on both sides have left the Vibrants and Cappy's behind in pursuit of newer and shiny models. I fear that we might not find a solution and if we do, this device will be close to 3 years old and while it still rocks hard, is considered a dinosaur in mobile phone tech. And that to me is too bad.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Since it happened to me also (read my testimony here), I could say this bug is somehow reversible UNLESS ONE HITS THE "RESET PHONE" BUTTON. Do not press it! Pull the battery out and boot to recovery through button combo and restore a nandroid. If you are a flasher and not a noob, always keep a working nandroid backup (it saved me). I'm not sure if I could flash anything else, perhaps it's the same flashing process somehow getting corrupted?

ioancr said:
... I could say this bug is somehow reversible UNLESS ONE HITS THE "RESET PHONE" BUTTON. Do not press it! ...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I never pressed Reset (and knew beforehand not to thanks to advice from Woodrube, et al) ... yet I still succumbed to EU.
No one knows a sure fire way to make this "reversible" unfortunately. Those who have had their internal sd's restored seem to have been more lucky than anything else - ie. there's no common thread to link nor duplicate their results.
Maybe one day, this thing gets figured out.

yosup said:
I never pressed Reset (and knew beforehand not to thanks to advice from Woodrube, et al) ... yet I still succumbed to EU.
No one knows a sure fire way to make this "reversible" unfortunately. Those who have had their internal sd's restored seem to have been more lucky than anything else - ie. there's no common thread to link nor duplicate their results.
Maybe one day, this thing gets figured out.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wow, I didn't know that, it seems really worse than I thought of. Sorry if I ask it, but you still were able to get to recovery weren't you? Also, did you have a nandroid backup to try a restore?
Then I was yes very lucky, sorry for you guys and hope someday someone will save your phones too...

ioancr said:
... Sorry if I ask it, but you still were able to get to recovery weren't you? Also, did you have a nandroid backup to try a restore? ...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, I could get to recovery, but I couldn't mount the internal sd anymore (and haven't been able to yet to date). So, I couldn't restore a nandroid backup or flash any of the roms I had downloaded on the int sd.
The vold.fstab emmc swap method at least let's me use the phone normally (albeit without the int sd), but I'm keeping my fingers crossed Woodrube & The Gang figure out how to restore access to the int sd ... some day.

I got scared by this bug i left ics itself and now I'm running helly bean ...........I don't have an ext memory card and should I get one? you know just in case if something goes wrong I can use the roms from ext memory card or nandroid backup and come back to normal ...........

This bug appears to be similar to the emmc bug on the note. Essentially, the eprom (programmable chip) on the motherboard of your phone.... for some reason it writes additional bits of code (like 2 bits or 8 bits) on the chip which then basically changes how the cpu sees the index... which then Bricks the phones.
Like Woodrube said...... The Vibe is 3 years old and it Totally Amazes me how great this phone really is.......... it is one of the few that could get ICS or JB ....... think about it this thing was released with Eclair (2.1)...... and still running like that lil bunny......
Oh and BTW CONGRATS TO WOODRUBE..... He is now the latest addition to the Moderator's group here at XDA Congrats to Woodrube.
:victory::victory::victory::victory::victory: ~~~~~ oka1
Woodrube said:
Answers (sort of):
Short answer: You can't (yet). Some really bright minds are working on it but many users on both sides have left the Vibrants and Cappy's behind in pursuit of newer and shiny models. I fear that we might not find a solution and if we do, this device will be close to 3 years old and while it still rocks hard, is considered a dinosaur in mobile phone tech. And that to me is too bad.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

oka1 said:
... Oh and BTW CONGRATS TO WOODRUBE..... He is now the latest addition to the Moderator's group here at XDA Congrats to Woodrube.
:victory::victory::victory::victory::victory: ~~~~~ oka1
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
:thumbup::thumbup: Congrats, Woodman!! :thumbup::thumbup:
Very worthy bump-in-pay-grade for one of the all-time "counselors" that roam these halls. Great to see that good guys do win.

Note: I'm not sure if the following information is 100% valid for our device, but I've been digging into the problem and how others have gotten it.
How to reproduce:
- After bootup perform sudden power removal
- boot-up interup and reboot.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yup, with encryption support in ICS, Android has become a lot more
picky about having all the filesystems initialized with valid data,
and mistakenly assumes that anything that's not zero or valid is
encrypted, refusing to go any further.
In Gingerbread and before, anything that wasn't valid was expected to
be invalid, and Android would just re-initialize it, regardless of
whether it was zero or not.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

theexel said:
Note: I'm not sure if the following information is 100% valid for our device, but I've been digging into the problem and how others have gotten it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Interesting stuff. I wonder what would cause part of the file system to become invalid though, seemingly during normal usage.

Not trying to thread jack but I read this quote on team-passion by the dev:
The encryption bug is due to a partition going bad. If it happens to the internal SD then you're done. It's not an ICS bug. It happens on all ROMs and all phones. ICS makes an effort at fixing it. Previous versions don't, or don't make themselves apparent. Bricks have been happening for ever. The Vibrant is 2 years old. Hardware fails. Just like in your PC. This kind of error come up on stock OTA updates, on other devices, as well. Not for SD, as far as I could find. But OTA updates of ICS are for new devices. If there are any corruptions the phone gets returned
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Is there any truth to this? Can the EU bug happen on any rom? Is ICS as safe as any other rom?

crazexr7 said:
Not trying to thread jack but I read this quote on team-passion by the dev:
Is there any truth to this? Can the EU bug happen on any rom? Is ICS as safe as any other rom?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
till date it has only occurred on ics roms ......jb roms not even a single case reported .....I'm hoping it won't come to jb .....I got scared by this bug and I moved from ics to jb .......2.2 and 2.3 are safe to escape from this bug

crazexr7 said:
Not trying to thread jack but I read this quote on team-passion by the dev:
Is there any truth to this? Can the EU bug happen on any rom? Is ICS as safe as any other rom?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, there is no truth to this (see my earlier post in this thread for more info).
Not 1 single Froyo or Gingerbread build hsa ever gotten the bug (fact).
The EU bug occurred in early ICS builds for the first time (fact).
It occurred more frequently in Passion versions b1-v13 more than any other ROM out for the Vibrant (fact).
Sounds like there is some spin doctor action going on over there (speculation based on fact).
No one has yet to figure out why,how or when this happens. BUT, it is not from hardware degradation, except for the very small chance that overclocking puts extra heat and strain on the Nand chip (fact and speculation).
Ok so OKA1 said something about the EMMC chip corruption on the Note (which he owns). I was allocated my new forums and lo and behold, one was the Galaxy Tab 8.9 and guess what? They are having a major problem with....CWR and kernels that are making the machines nearly un-usable. Here is a link to the General section that might have some more info with it's multiple threads about the same thing (for now. Muhahaha!)

Woodrube said:
No, there is no truth to this (see my earlier post in this thread for more info).
Not 1 single Froyo or Gingerbread build hsa ever gotten the bug (fact).
The EU bug occurred in early ICS builds for the first time (fact).
It occurred more frequently in Passion versions b1-v13 more than any other ROM out for the Vibrant (fact).
Sounds like there is some spin doctor action going on over there (speculation based on fact).
No one has yet to figure out why,how or when this happens. BUT, it is not from hardware degradation, except for the very small chance that overclocking puts extra heat and strain on the Nand chip (fact and speculation).
Ok so OKA1 said something about the EMMC chip corruption on the Note (which he owns). I was allocated my new forums and lo and behold, one was the Galaxy Tab 8.9 and guess what? They are having a major problem with....CWR and kernels that are making the machines nearly un-usable. Here is a link to the General section that might have some more info with it's multiple threads about the same thing (for now. Muhahaha!)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ok so I'm running chimera v1.1 if I want to flash froyo again can I just flash a froyo rom from ics and be ok? or do I have to odin back to stock and go from there?

Gingerbread/Ice Cream Sandwich/Jellybean to Froyo with just a ROM flash = Brick waiting to happen.
ODIN back to stock, bud.

You can go from:
Froyo <-> Froyo:good:
Froyo -> Gingerbread :good:
Gingerbread <-> Gingerbread/MIUI:good:
Froyo/Gingerbread -> ICS/JB:good:
ICS <-> ICS:good:
ICS ->JB:good:
JB <-> JB:good:
ICS/JB -> Froyo/Eclair:bad:
Gingerbread -> Froyo/Eclair:bad:
Do NOT restore cross-OS Nandroids either. Meaning that you cannot restore a Froyo while you are on GB/ICS/JB.

Woodrube said:
You can go from:
Froyo <-> Froyo:good:
Froyo -> Gingerbread :good:
Gingerbread <-> Gingerbread/MIUI:good:
Froyo/Gingerbread -> ICS/JB:good:
ICS <-> ICS:good:
ICS ->JB:good:
JB <-> JB:good:
ICS/JB -> Froyo/Eclair:bad:
Gingerbread -> Froyo/Eclair:bad:
Do NOT restore cross-OS Nandroids either. Meaning that you cannot restore a Froyo while you are on GB/ICS/JB.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks guys I'm going to miss ICS but it's just not worth keeping. I would love to flash to JB but GPS and 911 issues are scaring me away.

Re-Size the System Partition on the i337 AT&T S4

Now that we have smaller ASOP/AOKP ROMs, is it possible to Re-Size the System Partition to fully leverage the extra space that before was being used by the Samsung ROM?, thanks

I remember someone saying that, due to the fact the internal memory drivers are proprietary, there wouldn't be a way to resize partitions. Hopefully I'm wrong, though.
What I'm really hoping for is a well-laid-out tutorial for reallocating your external SD card as internal storage.

i'm wondering the same, recently installed SlimBean, still only have 9.7GB free of Internal Storage, my system root indicates only 2.6GB, thats 12.3GB, is that all the 16GB models have after formatting?

i think someone will have to get us to an engineering hboot of sorts

This will likely never happen, period. The eMMCs used in most Android smart phones are only set up to allow partitioning once at the factory, and then never again. It's a hardware thing. You can partition and divide up more, but you can't reclaim or change what's already been partitioned(unless you did it).
What's more likely to happen is, just like with most other Samsung phones I've owned, someone will take the Internal-External-Swap script and modify/update it to work on the Galaxy S4. Basically what this script does is change the mount locations inside the phone so Android believes the SD card is the internal storage, and the former Internal Storage is the external.
EDIT: Example of the script being modified/updated for the Galaxy Note 8.0: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2276193

We did on the Nexus One to get ICS on it. Called Blackrose. S-Off was created, not true, but enough to allow a hex editor to resize partitions. I did this many times to make System larger and Data smaller to flash the bigger rom's like ICS that needed more System size to run properly.
It was developed because of a strong need. If the need is not big enough, no dev may waste their time. The One S got that capability too--

rugmankc said:
We did on the Nexus One to get ICS on it. Called Blackrose. S-Off was created, not true, but enough to allow a hex editor to resize partitions. I did this many times to make System larger and Data smaller to flash the bigger rom's like ICS that needed more System size to run properly.
It was developed because of a strong need. If the need is not big enough, no dev may waste their time. The One S got that capability too--
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
While I acknowledge those feats, from my quick research, I'll point out that those were both done with custom HBOOTs which changed the bootloader. As the Galaxy S4's bootloader is not only locked but encrypted, I still have my doubts about this being able to be done.
Were the Nexus One or HTC One S able to reclaim internal storage space for the user in the way that the OP is asking? I'm curious because while making System larger and Data smaller is an good example of re-partitioning, weren't you simply moving around space that was already reserved to the OS area and unavailable to the user... if that statement makes any sense. This is stepping outside my realm of expertise here, and I'll admit that my technical knowledge is very limited. The last time I heard these proposals were back when the T-Mobile G2 came out and folks were asking the same questions then.
EDIT: Ultimately you're right, and demand will drive innovation either way. IF the devs find a way to do this, I'll be pleased. If they find way to swap the internal/externals, I'll be happy with that too.

It was a moving around of sizes. Make one larger and one smaller. Total size had to remain same. Not sure if anyone will do it. But, may be possible. Outside of my expertise too.
Sent From My 32gb Samsung Galaxy S4 using Tapatalk 2

Awwww crap. In that case I think I'm refusing delivery of my AT&T GS4. Sucks...

the pit file for the gegs4 would resize it

HumanXv2 said:
the pit file for the gegs4 would resize it
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You go first trying that
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using xda app-developers app

jd1639 said:
You go first trying that
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I will when my phone gets here monday and the files are available. Really no reason it shouldn't work but I may be wrong. I odin'd Tmobile files onto my S3(bootloader,csc,rom) and it worked fine.
Im on Tmobile and would prefer to rid the phone of all traces of ATT =)

HumanXv2 said:
I will when my phone gets here monday and the files are available. Really no reason it shouldn't work but I may be wrong. I odin'd Tmobile files onto my S3(bootloader,csc,rom) and it worked fine.
Im on Tmobile and would prefer to rid the phone of all traces of ATT =)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Odin will probably error out if you try that, due to the locked bootloader.

I thought a full odin file had the bootloader?

mattdm said:
Odin will probably error out if you try that, due to the locked bootloader.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If he's lucky. I predict a brick.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using xda app-developers app

jd1639 said:
If he's lucky. I predict a brick.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Maybe so. And if it bricks, it will be a hard brick.

HumanXv2 said:
I thought a full odin file had the bootloader?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Unless it is signed by Samsung with the correct authentication key, it won't matter. If you run across said key...you will be one popular individual.

Ok so there are keys on the phones non writable memory and when the phone boots up it has to match keys with the bootloader and all to boot?
Thank you. This is much better than "it wont work"

HumanXv2 said:
Ok so there are keys on the phones non writable memory and when the phone boots up it has to match keys with the bootloader and all to boot?
Thank you. This is much better than "it wont work"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yea, but it runs a lot deeper than that. The "chain of trust" employed by this phone goes all the way down to the hardware not just NV. Loki sidesteps the process (again, there is more to it than that), but can be software patched by AT&T / Samsung. So far, the three best ways at getting at this bootloader seem to be:
1. Obtaining Samsung's encryption key. It would most certainly have to be released or leaked because it would be near impossible to break the encryption by other methods.
2. Somehow allow a secondary bootloader to run on the device. I think Devs are still waiting for the full release of KNOX to see if it would allow this or not.
3. Somehow disable the hardware fuses that are part of the chain of trust. This is very unlikely and would require the ability to re-press certain circuitry and develop new code. And if successful, every single phone would have to be done that way. So although I mentioned it, it's really not a viable option at all.
The bottom line is to NEVER take a software OTA from AT&T or Samsung until it is checked and cleared by Devs and (in the near future), if you need to send your phone for warranty repair or need to exchange it, you might be screwed.

This is not wise at all. We're talking hardbrick here.