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Hi All,
I gave up my Dopod 818 Pro to get an iPhone. But was not happy about the voice dialing, restrictive software etc...etc.. anyways, got rid of the iPhone and looking to buy another HTC product with more friendly Windows product - should I go for Touch HD? How is the call quality? I have been reading in the reviews that the call quality is poor - any cooked ROM or app to increase the call quality? Any other alternatives?
I kind of like the bigger screen face (3.8"), I like to have good call quality and easy to access features? I like the Microsoft Calendar etc, Voice Tagging and voice dialing, file explorer and be able to see what exactly is stored in the phone and not just a black box. I like to press my bluetooth headset and tell it "Call Home" and let it dial rather than fumbling around with the phone when driving. Any recommendations welcome?
Have a great weekend!
Brenda
Have you tried a JAILBROKEN iPhone? I have not researched much into Bluetooth voice dialing yet myself. Have you tried to find out if firmware 3.0 offers what you need?
Anyway, if I'm you I would try to be more thorough in listing my requirements before looking for the new phone. There are a lot of other considerations I'm sure beyond Bluetooth voice dialing.
Hi Steve
Thanks for the reply... I tried the jailbroken iPhone, don't get me wrong it is pretty good but still too much restrictive software - I hate iTunes.. one of the least intuitive programs, wiped out the song collection quite a few times..the jailbroken one gave me cydia and installer...still too cumbersome...
My requirements are:
Atleast 3.2" Touch screen
SMS capability
Microsoft Windows - Calenday, Contacts & Sync with outlook
Voice dialing
Blue Tooth
Good call quality
Play mp3
Enough memory to operate well - I had to clear the memory quite often on the Dopod 818
Ability to browse the web to read yahoo / gmail emails and get some stcok quotes
I am not too keen on camera, I will carry separate one for that
Thanks
Brenda
Brenda_Sheldon said:
Thanks for the reply... I tried the jailbroken iPhone, don't get me wrong it is pretty good but still too much restrictive software - I hate iTunes.. one of the least intuitive programs, wiped out the song collection quite a few times..the jailbroken one gave me cydia and installer...still too cumbersome...
My requirements are:
Atleast 3.2" Touch screen
SMS capability
Microsoft Windows - Calenday, Contacts & Sync with outlook
Voice dialing
Blue Tooth
Good call quality
Play mp3
Enough memory to operate well - I had to clear the memory quite often on the Dopod 818
Ability to browse the web to read yahoo / gmail emails and get some stcok quotes
I am not too keen on camera, I will carry separate one for that
Thanks
Brenda
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If bluetooth voice dialing is high up on your list, and you do not seem to have lots of functional requirements here, I think most of the HTC phones will meet your needs, including HD. But, you know the usual window mobile problems I guess. I would also take a look at HTC Magic and Nokia if your requirements are only those. Current iPhone is weak in bluetooth. Not sure about in firmware 3.0 despite all the speculation.
HTC Magic actually caught my attention and I really want to play with it. I got the impression that it also has multitouch screen like iPhone's. I hope it is as fast, stable, and smooth as iPhone. Unfortunately, I don't seem to be able to find a Telco shop in Sydney that has a demo unit (most just have a dummy). If anyone knows how I explore this alternative phone in Sydney please let me know.
Brenda_Sheldon said:
Hi All,
Any recommendations welcome?
Have a great weekend!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What is Iphone?
You are in the right thread already...so get yourself a Blackstone
HTC lova said:
...get yourself a Blackstone
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why buy a phone about to be phased out? If you love HTC phone and have a brand new chance to buy one now, would you not consider Touch Pro 2 and Touch Diamond 2 at least? If nothing else, you get newer ROM that can zoom properly, and not like cooked ROMs ported to HD that can't do proper zooming due to hardware differences.
Or even TG01, with the much more powerful processor?
Or HTC Magic, with it's iPhone like touch screen?
eaglesteve said:
Why buy a phone about to be phased out? If you love HTC phone and have a brand new chance to buy one now, would you not consider Touch Pro 2 and Touch Diamond 2 at least?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why buying a new overpriced device with smaller screen / "communicator" keyboard? defeats the purpose of having a touch phone
HTC lova said:
Why buying a new overpriced device with smaller screen / "communicator" keyboard? defeats the purpose of having a touch phone
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I always believe that every user should comprehensively list down what are important to that person, and the list differs from person to person. While I like big screen like you (which was why I still own an Athena), not everyone agrees on what constitute adequate screen size. So, 3.2 inch mentioned by Brenda is small for you and me, but she does not see it as important.
Brenda, I think it pays also to find out the firmware upgrade policy on HTC magic and see if future Android OS would be given to you free of charge. It is sad to see HTC users having to keep paying for new phone over and over again in order to get the most updated ROM. I would take this aspect into account in addition to your listed considerations.
eaglesteve said:
I always believe that every user should comprehensively list down what are important to that person, and the list differs from person to person. While I like big screen like you (which was why I still own an Athena), not everyone agrees on what constitute adequate screen size. So, 3.2 inch mentioned by Brenda is small for you and me, but she does not see it as important.
Brenda, I think it pays also to find out the firmware upgrade policy on HTC magic and see if future Android OS would be given to you free of charge. It is sad to see HTC users having to keep paying for new phone over and over again in order to get the most updated ROM. I would take this aspect into account in addition to your listed considerations.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I totally agree mate. Brenda asked for suggestions and I stated mine (which is the Blackstone)
I have the HD, but at this point in time...you should look at the newer HTC ppc's Touch Pro 2 or Touch Diamond 2
Does Touch Diamond2 come with voice dialing?
Hi Steve and HTC Lova,
I seriously looked in to Diamond2 especially the call quality was rated high - but I then I read some review that it does not support voice dialing. If that's the case then I have to rule it out unless there is a voice cab that can be easily loaded and activated.
Is the Touch Pro2 kind of heavy - 178 gm compared to Diamond2's 117 gm or Touch HD's 146 gm?
I am not sure about the HTC Magic - android - especially if I have to pay for firmware..
Will wait to hear from you guys on the Diamond2 voice dial cab.
Thanks
Brenda
Brenda,
You can always install microsoft voice command by yourself.
Good to know....
Hi Steve,
Thanks for the fast reply...How good is the Microsoft voice software? Have you used it? In my previous Dopod 818, I installed a voice cab file and thought it was better than any thing else..I am not sure where I got the voice.cab file from.
Is it similar to Dopod to flash similar cab files in Diamond2?
Thanks again.
Brenda
Brenda_Sheldon said:
Hi Steve,
Thanks for the fast reply...How good is the Microsoft voice software? Have you used it? In my previous Dopod 818, I installed a voice cab file and thought it was better than any thing else..I am not sure where I got the voice.cab file from.
Is it similar to Dopod to flash similar cab files in Diamond2?
Thanks again.
Brenda
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have tried both cyberon voice commander and microsoft voice command. None works for me because I can't speak with American or British accent I guess. It is so inaccurate and frustrating that I gave up quickly years ago. I always prefer speed dial button style of calling. When I flash cooked ROMs, I always choose the version that does not do voice dial.
just got $100 ticket for having iPhone in the hand...
Steve,
I just got a $100 ticket for picking up the iPhone, that made my decision to get rid of that... I had pretty good connection between the dopod 818 and the headset, but gave away the dopod to a friend...regret that...
I am going to look in to Diamond2 more and make the decision soon - seems light enough, as long as i can read occasional yahoo mail and send my son sms, it will be good.. I liked the iPhone's big screen and quick response but the non-windows application drove me nuts...
I did take a look at TG01...not sure where to get it and more importantly the price..looks like it may be exorbidant.
Thanks for the inputs..
Brenda
Brenda,
Another iPhone alternative that caught my eye is Palm Pre. The user interface is also fantastic, very similar to iPhone in some ways. Here are some video demo
http://gizmodo.com/5126752/palm-pre-full-video-tours
This is Palm's version of WM7, so is definitely worth taking a close look.
Has an incredible browser that should be a good match for Safari. See here:
http://palmgoon.com/meet-the-web-browser-on-the-pre/
Apparently, the palm pre browser handles flash!
I have not gone deep enough into it and researched enough to say if if it good or not. Just as a potential candidate for evaluation I think it qualifies. In case I'm starting to sound like a Palm fanboy, I assure everyone that I'm still a winmo and iPhone fanboy in and out
Hack, when you got a chance to buy a new phone, with so many new candidates on the market, why not keep our mind completely open once again? The bar has been lifted higher and higher each year. Why choose a device based on very low expectation and standard?
The most important area to research IMO is what sorts of third party software could be found and their quality. If it has an apple store equivalent, then I think it would be extremely attractive. If anyone here can speed up our learning process in this area I'd greatly appreciate it. I like to know if I can run the like of TomTom, iGO, etc on Palm Pre, or if it has a credible GPS software of its own. I also have lots of other questions like if an MS Offfice compatible spreadsheet exist, any good Golf Score/Handicapping software, quality of video capture and playing software, quality of camera, ease of downloading movies/MP3 etc, likes of eWallet type software, likes of Cash Organiser Premium type software, etc etc. I'm also interesting in seeing the "file structure"/file coying/file moving/file renaming features. I want to make sure that it is not just a phone, but a computer. Can someone help?
I could'nt find definite anwer to your question on whether it can do voice dialing over bluetooth, but here is a thread that you can follow:
http://forum.treonauts.com/palm-sma...l-pre-allow-voice-dialing-over-bluetooth.html
Cheers.
galaxys said:
I have the HD, but at this point in time...you should look at the newer HTC ppc's Touch Pro 2 or Touch Diamond 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you don't need a bigger screen, the Touch Diamond2 is a great phone. If you need a bigger screen like the HD, then the upcoming Firestone might be worth waiting for http://www.gsmarena.com/htc_2009_roadmap_gets_updated_now_weve_got_the_specs-news-821.php
If you need a keyboard, then the Touch Pro2 might be what you need.
I have an HD with my eye on the Firestone.
Matterhorn said:
If you need a keyboard, then the Touch Pro2 might be what you need.
I have an HD with my eye on the Firestone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Definately the Firestone is on my list for an upgrade when it shows up in Oct. or Nov.! But, I'll be playing with the TP2 w/ 3G on t-mobile USA!!
I'm curious to see what the battery life is going to be like on the Toshiba Tg01, i'm a little disenfranchised with HTC's incremental (if that much) upgrades.
The Tg01 seems much snappier and seems to have really good graphics performance, which is more than we can say for the last couple HTC iterations.
The only thing remaining for me to find out, is the battery life, and if there is any hope for a US operator to take it up...OR...another market that uses US 3g bands.
hmm. i dont know about rushing for firestone. i think hd will be great phone for long time. it has got nice hardware and maybe it will run android or wm7.
Not that I'm asking for help about the sluggishness, it's just that the G1 is just overall way more sluggish than my friends iPhone 3G. As in web pages load WAY faster (Wifi on both devices being used). The UI is way more snappy.
And I understand the trade offs I'd get with an iPhone. No true multitasking or alerts from apps (like twitter email etc. . .) No Gmail push (I think) no Google Cal sync over the air, or contact sync OTA. All these things are great, but I dunno, I think I'm going to crossover into iPhone land soon. The G1 just became a let down for me after using it closely for about 6 months. And using other peoples iPhones on and off.
This is just a rant. And mostly I'm talking about browser load speeds and UI. It would be nice if Google maps oriented the direction we're facing since it has a compass. But the new update is moving in the right direction. Love the walking directions. But I think I'm gonna move on to 1 app at a time, Draconian app approval, HYPE land, release 5 HW revisions before making a new product, iPhone land.
Any Takers. Who can refute my arguments. I'm using Google Ion ROM also.
Heh, and the iPhone 3GS supposed to be even faster!
You're pretty much begging for a flame by asking that in here.
It's all down to personal choice and preference. Your thread isn't about your 'sluggish G1'; You're asking us to convince you why you need a G1.
Nobody cares that you no longer want a G1. But don't make a new thread masquerading as a plea for help that is really about:
Any Takers. Who can refute my arguments.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i hope you enjoy your seemingly faster (much more expensive, much less useful) iphone.
my personal experience has been different, but you seem like the kind of person who wouldn't be convinced even with hard evidence.
Alright. Well. I don't benchmark or use "hard evidence" tests, I just go off the feel of things. Of course I know the iPhone is locking you into a Lot of things. But a jailbroken iPhone 3G / 3G S will be more fun app / mobile safari. And as far as a reason for keep the G1 I'm not looking for a reason. I've rooted the phone, used apps2sd 2 with an ext3 partition. Made sure data/data is in intmem etc. . . The Rom dev is great, but an iPhone is like having an SL500. Of course more gas, higher maintenance cost. G1 is like having a nice truck that's a hybrid. It just doesn't feel as sexy. It can do Way more, but its a truck.
I'm cool with hearing other reasons why the G1 isn't sluggish etc. I'll listen, but I was just posting this out of my frustration of a slower browser and slower UI. I don't really know what the flame talk was about or me covering up intentions. These are just phones. But I think a jailbroken iPhone 3G beats out a rooted G1. Plus I'm not trying to ssh into my linux server with debian installed over hero.
Anyway, its just a conversation I wanted to spark with people who understand what I'm talking about. Not to mention the apps are a big plus too. And don't get me wrong, the g1 is good for the things it was built to address. The iPhone will just be more fun.
do you have all the newest and update firmware and radio installed?
your title is misleading.
also, only way to find out which one is better......... go and get both and use both and decided from there
I'm pretty sure I have the newest firmware. Haykuro's that was causing bricks on non PVT boards. I was using JF 1.51 ADP. I moved to cyanogen mod of JF. I moved on to hero, then google Ion rom. Oh and the sapphire rom. Ion rom was fastest, but iPhone's overall fell and touch is simply night and day. So is the browser. Steel was great before cupcake but it closes so much now its not even useable.
Oh yeah, radio is up to date too, hence the non bricked phone. Nevermind no 3G here in our area. I just want to hear others opinions before I drop 300 / plus a deposit for bad credit / and charging me for txt msg! But I'll have more apps.
The g1 does seem to get sluggish over time. I would try a wipe. That should restore the speed of the phone.
However, there's no getting around the performance of the iphone as it supports 2d hardware acceleration. The g1 and android only does software rendering so its never going to be faster than the iphone until the google devs start supporting 2d hardware acceleration (g1 has a graphics chip so it should be possible).
I personally don't find the g1 very sluggish. Maybe its sluggish compared to the iphone (I don't know as I don't have one to compare with), but on its own, the g1's UI is quite snappy (i'm running cyanogen ROM).
larrygates said:
Not that I'm asking for help about the sluggishness, it's just that the G1 is just overall way more sluggish than my friends iPhone 3G. As in web pages load WAY faster (Wifi on both devices being used). The UI is way more snappy.
Do you have a lot widgets running or background tasks? All those take up memory and cpu cycles which will end up slowing down the phone a lot.
And I understand the trade offs I'd get with an iPhone. No true multitasking or alerts from apps (like twitter email etc. . .) No Gmail push (I think) no Google Cal sync over the air, or contact sync OTA. All these things are great, but I dunno, I think I'm going to crossover into iPhone land soon. The G1 just became a let down for me after using it closely for about 6 months. And using other peoples iPhones on and off.
This is just a rant. And mostly I'm talking about browser load speeds and UI. It would be nice if Google maps oriented the direction we're facing since it has a compass. But the new update is moving in the right direction. Love the walking directions. But I think I'm gonna move on to 1 app at a time, Draconian app approval, HYPE land, release 5 HW revisions before making a new product, iPhone land.
Any Takers. Who can refute my arguments. I'm using Google Ion ROM also.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Here's my take:
I love the iphone ! I think it's the best comsumer phone (and i'm not kidding). The 1 app at a time applies to G1 too (almost): try playing Mafia then going to the browser (or another game) and back... Good luck with that !
Now the reason i use the G1 is that i NEED to be connected to yahoo messenger, i NEED to have my tweets as soon as they come (i use twitter for work). And i NEED a hardware keyboard. And i NEED weather on a widget, and background downloading of RSS feeds (NewsRob). And i NEED better integration between apps (i'll explain).
When Push notifications come to the iphone, things are going to change. It will be very close to what i have now on my G1. The only things missing would be the RSS thing and the HW keyboard.
About the integration: I can click share on a picture, and it will list the programs that can do something with it (like Twidroid). I really like this, and there are more examples.
Now, what you have to ask yourself is: What do YOU need ? When you know that, you'll know what you have to choose.
Bah, long post. I hate long posts.
Do you find the G1 UI significantly more sluggish than the iphone?
RPG0 said:
Here's my take:
I love the iphone ! I think it's the best comsumer phone (and i'm not kidding). The 1 app at a time applies to G1 too (almost): try playing Mafia then going to the browser (or another game) and back... Good luck with that !
Now the reason i use the G1 is that i NEED to be connected to yahoo messenger, i NEED to have my tweets as soon as they come (i use twitter for work). And i NEED a hardware keyboard. And i NEED weather on a widget, and background downloading of RSS feeds (NewsRob). And i NEED better integration between apps (i'll explain).
When Push notifications come to the iphone, things are going to change. It will be very close to what i have now on my G1. The only things missing would be the RSS thing and the HW keyboard.
About the integration: I can click share on a picture, and it will list the programs that can do something with it (like Twidroid). I really like this, and there are more examples.
Now, what you have to ask yourself is: What do YOU need ? When you know that, you'll know what you have to choose.
Bah, long post. I hate long posts.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
dwang said:
Do you find the G1 UI significantly more sluggish than the iphone?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If i were to rate UIs of phones (based ONLY on smoothness) i would give the iphone an 9/10 and the G1 a 8/10.
The thing is... actually the difference mostly comes from the touchscreen sensitivity. There are two bad things about the G1 here:
SPOILER ALERT: After reading you might notice new bad things about your G1...
1. Try touching the screen with a small part of your finger (the very tip) and you'll see it won't register. This happens more in real life than you would think...
2. Try opening the notification bar SLOWLY and you'll see it shakes as you move your finger. If you stop mid-way it will shake most of the time... Actually any list will shake if you drag it and then stop... kinda cheap.
3. The sides of the screen in portrait have a "snap" zone. Try moving an icon to one side, and it will stop folowing your finger at a moment, then it will snap to the border. (On my phone this only happens on the right side. On the left side it's worse. I CAN'T register touch on the edge there. It's a nightmare to move an icon to a screen to the left.).
I knew HTC was bad news when i dug deeper into my Kaiser.
So.. G1 actually 7/10... Android on a good phone 8-8.5/10.
Yes this is exactly what I'm talking about. I'm not very in the know, but I do know how to follow directions and root phones. But YES the missing HW acceleration is felt when I go from iPhone to G1. It's unsettling. But . . .
dwang said:
The g1 does seem to get sluggish over time. I would try a wipe. That should restore the speed of the phone.
However, there's no getting around the performance of the iphone as it supports 2d hardware acceleration. The g1 and android only does software rendering so its never going to be faster than the iphone until the google devs start supporting 2d hardware acceleration (g1 has a graphics chip so it should be possible).
I personally don't find the g1 very sluggish. Maybe its sluggish compared to the iphone (I don't know as I don't have one to compare with), but on its own, the g1's UI is quite snappy (i'm running cyanogen ROM).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You gave pretty much all the reasons I waited for the G1 and went with it. I knew it acted more like a computer and actually integrated different api's into 1 whole (if you will). Or let the app devs get to the api's. But I like having my feeds come to me without thinking, I like twitter updates, I love gmail being like my old blackberry exchange solution. I WISH live maps or mesh or whatever it's called for Windows Mobile 6.1 would come to android. Someone asked about widgets etc. I disabled all widgets, actually I wiped to a clean Ion Rom that isn't running anything in the background but essentials. It's the HW accel I'm thinking, and the sensitivity of the touch screen. It's great on the iPHone. These were the replies I was looking for. Just something to chomp on before I make any moves. Cause I'm seriously thinking about making that move. I'll lose a lot though. But I'll gain a lot back.
Oh yeah, how come maps on the G1 doesn't auto orient like the iPhone does now. We have a compass, and the new maps is better, at least it shows the direction, but I have to rotate the phone though.
RPG0 said:
Here's my take:
I love the iphone ! I think it's the best comsumer phone (and i'm not kidding). The 1 app at a time applies to G1 too (almost): try playing Mafia then going to the browser (or another game) and back... Good luck with that !
Now the reason i use the G1 is that i NEED to be connected to yahoo messenger, i NEED to have my tweets as soon as they come (i use twitter for work). And i NEED a hardware keyboard. And i NEED weather on a widget, and background downloading of RSS feeds (NewsRob). And i NEED better integration between apps (i'll explain).
When Push notifications come to the iphone, things are going to change. It will be very close to what i have now on my G1. The only things missing would be the RSS thing and the HW keyboard.
About the integration: I can click share on a picture, and it will list the programs that can do something with it (like Twidroid). I really like this, and there are more examples.
Now, what you have to ask yourself is: What do YOU need ? When you know that, you'll know what you have to choose.
Bah, long post. I hate long posts.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The iphone 3gs does look pretty great, but I'm not switching from tmobile to att just for the iphone. There's going to be some nice android phones coming down the line, hopefully with upgraded cpu and memory to match the pre and 3gs. That should narrow the performance differences significantly. And hopefully android 2.0 (donut) finally implements 2d hardware acceleration.
larrygates said:
Yes this is exactly what I'm talking about. I'm not very in the know, but I do know how to follow directions and root phones. But YES the missing HW acceleration is felt when I go from iPhone to G1. It's unsettling. But . . .
You gave pretty much all the reasons I waited for the G1 and went with it. I knew it acted more like a computer and actually integrated different api's into 1 whole (if you will). Or let the app devs get to the api's. But I like having my feeds come to me without thinking, I like twitter updates, I love gmail being like my old blackberry exchange solution. I WISH live maps or mesh or whatever it's called for Windows Mobile 6.1 would come to android. Someone asked about widgets etc. I disabled all widgets, actually I wiped to a clean Ion Rom that isn't running anything in the background but essentials. It's the HW accel I'm thinking, and the sensitivity of the touch screen. It's great on the iPHone. These were the replies I was looking for. Just something to chomp on before I make any moves. Cause I'm seriously thinking about making that move. I'll lose a lot though. But I'll gain a lot back.
Oh yeah, how come maps on the G1 doesn't auto orient like the iPhone does now. We have a compass, and the new maps is better, at least it shows the direction, but I have to rotate the phone though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
See I'm worried about that. Why wouldn't android have he hw accel. I'm using an iPhone now to post this. Hw key is good, but this iPhone is very nice. I'll try to hold out and see. But I'll take it up the a!! Yeah I'm getting one. A 3G S.
dwang said:
The iphone 3gs does look pretty great, but I'm not switching from tmobile to att just for the iphone. There's going to be some nice android phones coming down the line, hopefully with upgraded cpu and memory to match the pre and 3gs. That should narrow the performance differences significantly. And hopefully android 2.0 (donut) finally implements 2d hardware acceleration.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
larrygates said:
See I'm worried about that. Why wouldn't android have he hw accel. I'm using an iPhone now to post this. Hw key is good, but this iPhone is very nice. I'll try to hold out and see. But I'll take it up the a!! Yeah I'm getting one. A 3G S.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well you laid out the talking points pretty well in your first post (and frankly aside from multitasking, iPhone OS 3.0 has fixed a lot deficiencies), so if you're set on an iPhone, just go for it.
Frankly, if having used a G1 for a while you are still considering an iPhone, then the iPhone is probably a better product for you. Reasons such as avoiding being locked into Apple's closed ecosystem probably weren't ever a factor for you at all.
Hey thanks for the civil post. The last thing you said is a hard one along with at&t. Apple is pretty slick with marketing, and they're hardware upgrades really screw you. Plus I think one of the guys here said something about dual core chips in phones next year.
About the Eco system hopefully jailbreaking side steps a lot of the walls on the phone. We'll see. I need to wait some things out and see how the dev team comes along. Someone said I should look into the pre, but I wonder if its similar to the G1.
jashsu said:
Well you laid out the talking points pretty well in your first post (and frankly aside from multitasking, iPhone OS 3.0 has fixed a lot deficiencies), so if you're set on an iPhone, just go for it.
Frankly, if having used a G1 for a while you are still considering an iPhone, then the iPhone is probably a better product for you. Reasons such as avoiding being locked into Apple's closed ecosystem probably weren't ever a factor for you at all.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Bah. This is only personal preference nonsense. Go get the iphone if ur tired of the g1.
larrygates said:
Hey thanks for the civil post.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just because i'm using and love the G1 doesn't mean the iPhone is a bad phone. I really don't have time to spend writing up a long convincing article why you should stay with the G1, let alone flame-coat it.
The last thing you said is a hard one along with at&t. Apple is pretty slick with marketing, and they're hardware upgrades really screw you. Plus I think one of the guys here said something about dual core chips in phones next year.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
All hardware obsoletes, iPhone or otherwise. It's just a fact of tech life. If you constantly wait for the better hardware upgrade then you will never have any hardware at all.
About the Eco system hopefully jailbreaking side steps a lot of the walls on the phone. We'll see. I need to wait some things out and see how the dev team comes along. Someone said I should look into the pre, but I wonder if its similar to the G1.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Obviously the phone is better in some respects than others. But for example it will only sync with iTunes. I will never install iTunes or Quicktime ever again because they are poorly written pieces of spyware crap. Also, the cloud sync clearly prefers Mobile Me as the primary service. Remember when Mobile Me launched? It was a pile of cowpie. Even Apple admitted this.
The iPhone has a sleek interface and a powerful advertising machine behind it. That's why it and the iPod are such popular devices among consumers. However, being that I am an engineer by trade, I'm not so easily swayed by Apple's glitzy advertising. In that respect, iPhone's deficiencies, past and present come into stark contrast. For example, the inability to multitask userapps is just ridiculous. I actually want to receive my emails and instant messages in realtime, without having to open the Google App. Some people say "just use SMS", which opens up a whole new bag of rant about how SMS is the most ridiculous ripoff scheme ever...
One thing I want to mention regarding sluggishness is if u are running one of those third party home apps like dxtop or ahome, I would try uninstalling those and see if your sluggishness goes away. Also, badly written widgets can cause slowdowns as well. The g1 isn't as fast as the 3g but it really isn't that slow. Especially if u are running ion at 528mhz or cyanogens rom.
jashsu said:
Just because i'm using and love the G1 doesn't mean the iPhone is a bad phone. I really don't have time to spend writing up a long convincing article why you should stay with the G1, let alone flame-coat it.
All hardware obsoletes, iPhone or otherwise. It's just a fact of tech life. If you constantly wait for the better hardware upgrade then you will never have any hardware at all.
Obviously the phone is better in some respects than others. But for example it will only sync with iTunes. I will never install iTunes or Quicktime ever again because they are poorly written pieces of spyware crap. Also, the cloud sync clearly prefers Mobile Me as the primary service. Remember when Mobile Me launched? It was a pile of cowpie. Even Apple admitted this.
The iPhone has a sleek interface and a powerful advertising machine behind it. That's why it and the iPod are such popular devices among consumers. However, being that I am an engineer by trade, I'm not so easily swayed by Apple's glitzy advertising. In that respect, iPhone's deficiencies, past and present come into stark contrast. For example, the inability to multitask userapps is just ridiculous. I actually want to receive my emails and instant messages in realtime, without having to open the Google App. Some people say "just use SMS", which opens up a whole new bag of rant about how SMS is the most ridiculous ripoff scheme ever...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Out of curiosity, how is SMS the most ridiculous ripoff scheme ever?
Also, a friend of mine has a 3.0 beta developer firmware of the iPhone which allows multitasking. I myself found a cheap 4gb iPhone on Craigslist and am planning to unlock it for (most likely) a backup phone or business phone, when I've seen both phones and compared for about a week I'll post my findings here.
I was noticing the same sluggishness and such with the G1. You have to remember that, if you're like most users on the forum here, you -are- using an unsupported version of the phone, and it's not working how it's supposed to and how the provider intended for it to be used. Someone else mentioned this, but third-party apps also contribute to that. Depending on what you use, some apps could constantly be taking up extra memory and make your use of the G1 more of a chore, because of the time it takes to open up even a browser.
Anyway, to OP: You could just do what I did. Instead of spending $300 on a new iPhone that you have to dump out another extra $x-amount for new service at AT&Suck, why not just buy a used one on Craigslist or eBay and unlock it? Then you can use it with your current T-Mobile service and not have a lot of extra loss. You don't even need to get rid of your G1, just use one or the other as a backup or something.
If you are the kind of person who gets emotionally attached to the gadgets you buy, please stop reading this post.
I'm not trying to start an inflamed discussion about which is the best device or manufacturer.
I’m not an Apple fan, in fact, I hate being “Apple locked” and that’s one of the main reasons I’ve bought the Leo after owning an Eten x500, a Kaiser, a Blackstone and finally, an iPhone 3GS.
I could go over and over describing the differences and the pros and cons of each device but I won’t. I’ll just try to tell you guys a few things we don’t have to accept.
We don’t have to accept …
the endless steps (gold card, hardSPL, regEdit, dictionary hacks, you name it) needed to get the phone speaking your language. You just have to say: I want “THAT” system language and “THAT” input language and that’s it. That’s how it’s done on the iPhone. And I’m not talking 3 or 4 languages. I’m saying over 30 different languages and oh, you also have voice control on YOUR language. You don’t need to hack Voice Command…
an SMS conversation that gets all messages out of order (doesn’t HTC know how to do time calculations?)
a Gigahert processor which can’t smoothly scroll a web page. I know it’s probably due to bad Opera coding but… have you ever scrolled an iPhone Safari?
a whole bunch of bad designed apps which you can’t effectively control / interface with because Windows Mobile programmers really don’t seem to realize that “user friendlier” is better. Have you ever used a same App on both platforms? Take Trapster for example (It’s available at Micrsoft app store). The windows mobile version of it makes me feel sorry for the programmer while the iPhone version feels very nice. Of course this is not the only example…
a lot of small bugs on the first ROM. Apple got it right on the first and they had never (ever) built a phone before! How many phones will HTC have to make before they get a stock ROM right? The small things are often the most annoying...
I could go on but there is something I realized that made me feel really hopeless (yes, I would really like to like a Windows phone). While HTC (and other manufacturers) keeps on launching device after device in a short time frame and thus creating new bugs and issues to deal with, Apple keeps on improving its one and only iPhone OS, for its one iPhone device (ok, different versions but very similar) which keeps getting better and better.
While iPhone developers have to deal with interface and compatibility issues for 3 very similar devices, a Windows Mobile developer has to deal with hundreds of them, some very poorly designed and a few very good (like Leo) but in the end, there is no way to develop a very good app for so many devices without a huge effort (and cost). Also, developing an App exclusively for one Windows phone wouldn’t be cost effective as a single model doesn’t represent a large enough consumer market.
Apple, with the iPhone, didn’t create a device as we are used to. Instead, they created a product with a long roadmap, mature SDK, sufficient market share, providing the necessary ecosystem for developers all around the world to make it even better.
It won’t be possible for any manufacturer, using any OS, to compete with such a mature product if they don’t realize it’s not a device we need. It’s a product.
Sadly, I’m going back to my 3GS… (god I hate iTunes…)
fmcastro said:
a lot of small bugs on the first ROM. Apple got it right on the first and they had never (ever) built a phone before! How many phones will HTC have to make before they get a stock ROM right? The small things are often the most annoying...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Couldn't agree more on that.. Actually some people believed that HTC guys were deaf to provide us with such a loud distorted audio quality. I can't forgive HTC for the SMS bug.. I can't load all my SMS, device becomes really really slow and laggy.. How come they did not run a proper test to ensure their HTC Messaging application was working fine with dozens of SMS? This is really unprofessional. What where they busy with? The weather animation?
HTC support will contact me today to collect some symptoms and bugs I found but they did NOT ( as they claimed ).
Hopefully a hotfix will be available ASAP.
Xeon said:
Couldn't agree more on that.. Actually some people believed that HTC guys were deaf to provide us with such a loud distorted audio quality. I can't forgive HTC for the SMS bug.. I can't load all my SMS, device becomes really really slow and laggy.. How come they did not run a proper test to ensure their HTC Messaging application was working fine with dozens of SMS? This is really unprofessional. What where they busy with? The weather animation?
HTC support will contact me today to collect some symptoms and bugs I found but they did NOT ( as they claimed ).
Hopefully a hotfix will be available ASAP.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, one thing we can safely assume by now is that no one at HTC actually uses their devices. Unless they are all deaf, send and receive SMSs only to/from their one and only imaginary friend and probably spend too much of their time watching the weather channel...
fmcastro said:
Well, one thing we can safely assume by now is that no one at HTC actually uses their devices. Unless they are all deaf, send and receive SMSs only to/from their one and only imaginary friend and probably spend too much of their time watching the weather channel...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Some bugs are bearable.. I had too many with all my previous XDA/HTC phones. But for such basic bugs to be found, the device primary tasks ( phone calls / SMS ) should never be affected because it makes the device useless...
fmcastro said:
the endless steps (gold card, hardSPL, regEdit, dictionary hacks, you name it) needed to get the phone speaking your language. You just have to say: I want “THAT” system language and “THAT” input language and that’s it. That’s how it’s done on the iPhone. And I’m not talking 3 or 4 languages. I’m saying over 30 different languages and oh, you also have voice control on YOUR language. You don’t need to hack Voice Command…
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Uh... you do realise that the reason these hacks exist is because the HD2 probably hasn't been officially launched in the country / language of your choice, and that people are hacking so they can use the HD2 in their country sooner than as decided by the carrier?
fmcastro said:
an SMS conversation that gets all messages out of order (doesn’t HTC know how to do time calculations?)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's Microsoft's fault - having said that, I haven't had the problem with the HD2 itself - only the custom ROMS cooked with Leo packages on a Touch HD.
fmcastro said:
a whole bunch of bad designed apps which you can’t effectively control / interface with because Windows Mobile programmers really don’t seem to realize that “user friendlier” is better. Have you ever used a same App on both platforms? Take Trapster for example (It’s available at Micrsoft app store). The windows mobile version of it makes me feel sorry for the programmer while the iPhone version feels very nice. Of course this is not the only example…
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And this is more due to laziness on the developer's part and nothing to do with Windows MObile or the HD2 in general. Take a look at S2U2 - have you seen how nice the settings page is? Or GAlarm, *the* best alarm program ever.
fmcastro said:
a lot of small bugs on the first ROM. Apple got it right on the first and they had never (ever) built a phone before! How many phones will HTC have to make before they get a stock ROM right? The small things are often the most annoying...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed. Wish HTC would get their act together.
If you hate iTunes so much why not wait a few more months for the Xperia X10, running Android with Snapdragon? Or the Motorola DROID for that matter?
aussiebum said:
Uh... you do realise that the reason these hacks exist is because the HD2 probably hasn't been officially launched in the country / language of your choice, and that people are hacking so they can use the HD2 in their country sooner than as decided by the carrier?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Humm... not exactly. Most people here at XDA were trying to switch from an oficial ROM to another. That said, we're talking about official languages. I was trying to flash a WWE ROM on a french device for example. The HTC excuse for this terrible language mess is, of course, microsoft: "Unfortunately, due to licensing restrictions put in place by Microsoft, it is not legally possible for us the change the language of a device once it has been loaded" - Quoted from an HTC support email I received.
aussiebum said:
That's Microsoft's fault - having said that, I haven't had the problem with the HD2 itself - only the custom ROMS cooked with Leo packages on a Touch HD.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Do you realise it shouldn't matter whose fault it is? It's a faulty device sold by HTC, period. I don't feel any better knowing it's an OS fault.
aussiebum said:
And this is more due to laziness on the developer's part and nothing to do with Windows MObile or the HD2 in general. Take a look at S2U2 - have you seen how nice the settings page is? Or GAlarm, *the* best alarm program ever.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I know but I think it's a bit more complicated as I said on the original post. Besides the laziness, WM developers face a too heterogeneous ecossystem that makes things really harder. "Ok, I've finished my app, now I just have to port it to 640x480, 480x640, 480x800, 800x480, 320x200, and who knows what else, despite the fact that standard WM UIs are really crap so every developer has to start from scratch if they want to make something look good. In short, only a few very brave souls will be capable of that.
aussiebum said:
Agreed. Wish HTC would get their act together.
If you hate iTunes so much why not wait a few more months for the Xperia X10, running Android with Snapdragon? Or the Motorola DROID for that matter?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Because Android is not that good also. It seems like a better OS than WM but when it comes to user experience and, most important, a consistent user experience across all apps, it fails for the same reason WM fails. Lack of a product design and roadmap. It's just trying desperately to be installed on as most devices as it can.
Regards
And yet, the reasons people still use Winmo/Android is because the Iphone OS has serious deficiencies in some areas.
There is no perfect phone....all we can do is make the best of each OS.
Honestly you'd be better off with an iphone. I love my HD2 despite some minor problems, because I enjoy messing around with my phone. Also browsing the net on the HD2 is much faster than on the 3GS and you don't have to zoom in in order to read anything on the screen.
Let's not forget that the device is going to be upgradeable to winmo 7 as well.
Solution - keep HD2 and get ipod Touch - best of both worlds. Connect ipod via Wifi to HD2.
I owned iphone 3gs...
I read all you've been writing and i, as former iphone 3gs user, must say that everything you say is corect but... why don't you say to all of us why you gave up your iphone... or why you really hating go back to itunes... and of course why in the close future you'll give up again, and sell the iphone???
The answer, real answer is that with iPhone you have everything right in place as you say but there is no fun... no joy... like trying to have the best sex but not in the mood... if know what i mean...
I had moments when i pulled out my iphone, from my pocket, and i wanted to play arround with it and...come on, really boring!!!
Iphone is the best in terms of everyday use, but if wm 7 will get better in terms of use it's going to be a strong iphone killer!!!
I really like my HD2, in spite of all the hiccups, because it's fun, you can lose yourself for hours doing nothing but looking inside of it... settings, registry, HKLM, HKCU... does ring a bell, than entering here at xda and finding that someone did something and you hold your breath till you see if that is working or not...
I only say that i like playing... and HTC HD2 is giving me that!!! i don't need silly games to have fun from my device...
By the way...
No OS can have better handle of e-mail attachments than wm... for sure!!!
I HAVE NO REGRETS FOR SELLING IPHONE OVER HTC HD2!!!
Cheers!
jimbo29 said:
I really like my HD2, in spite of all the hiccups, because it's fun, you can lose yourself for hours doing nothing but looking inside of it... settings, registry, HKLM, HKCU... does ring a bell, than entering here at xda and finding that someone did something and you hold your breath till you see if that is working or not...
I only say that i like playing... and HTC HD2 is giving me that!!! i don't need silly games to have fun from my device...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for perfectly expressing my thoughts
Toss3 said:
Honestly you'd be better off with an iphone. I love my HD2 despite some minor problems, because I enjoy messing around with my phone. Also browsing the net on the HD2 is much faster than on the 3GS and you don't have to zoom in in order to read anything on the screen.
Let's not forget that the device is going to be upgradeable to winmo 7 as well.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I must say i have had an iphone 3g and i'm more happy with my HTC HD2. One of the reasons is because i simply think you pay way to much for the piece of hardware itself still no 5mpx camera while 8 is almost normal and 12 is high end. The new gs is worth more the money tough but the camera keeps me off and i kept hearing a annoying resonance while calling and the software isn't perfect as well and not that stable after a few days plus the battery life of the HTC HD2 is better as my iphone 3g and way better as the 3gs.
I like the default windows mobile software HTC Sense is annoying, camera flip, weather animations can't be turned off. Emails why show the email in the way it is shown now? i just rather had opened the whole email app so i can view the emails like your supposed to and not like a letter.
While calling you have to slide to get the extra options, why? there is a hang up button on screen wich you can press so why not the other buttons?
HTC tried to make a nice looking skin but not a functional one.
I use the default titanium skin with some modifications like a task manager added to the options and msn and the camera. But the apps for calling and the communications manager work great.
About windows mobile 7:
Windows mobile can be great. But i still have the idea they haven't learned from their mistakes. Look at the buttons a phone is supposed to have according to microsoft for windows mobile 7. a Pickup, a home, a start, a back and a hang up button. Why so many? Home and start could be one, 1 press to go home another to go to start and press again to go home again, simple and effective. Why a back button? when would you use that? Press the home button and your back in the home screen and applications usually have their own back button when needed. So pick-up home and hang-up would have been enough. Since Microsoft asks for these buttons they still think to complicated and i bet windows 7 will to complicated as well all though it will be more complete compared to 6.x.
But i love how i can change things to the user interface and multitasking is great, the iphone can't do that by default and that really sucks. And backgrounder that does make it possible, makes the phone more unstable as a windows mobile one. It is stupid windows mobile doesn't use it's greatest advantage for marketing and battling the iphone with it, this is where windows mobile could stand out with.
I'm writing this from my macbook on os x snow leopard and even i still prefer my windows mobile HTC HD2.
Windows Mobile 7 will simply use CE7 Kernel, compiled for new ARM CPUs and will use the new ARM instructions.
Now we're running Windows Mobile 6.5 that runs on CE5.2 kernel.
It's like running Windows98 on a Phenom X4 quadcore CPU
Even on other MSM chipsets that has got an ARM11 CPU, that potential isn't seen because of that.
When WM7 will be released, we'll see our device performance unleashed
I've had my HD2 for a week now and I must say I'm more than pleased with it. I did consider the iPhone as an option, but as I want to connect my phone to my Exchange Server then it was a no brainer to opt for a Windows Phone and the hardware specs of the HD2 are way above the iPhone. A big thing that put me off the iPhone was it's reliance upon iTunes to synchronise my calendar & contacts - it's dreadfully buggy toy software and I don't want a music application on my work PC.
If anyone has any doubts as to the iPhone's reliability and stability just Google "iPhone faults" and you'll see the problems users have experienced with their iPhones are considerable, with many being bricked through their hardware faults. Interestingly the most common reported faults are similar to those reported by the HTC dissenters such as slow SMS sending - maybe these are network issues? On top of that there's now the 'Astley' virus which Apple helpfully explain away as "the users' fault".
The emergence of open source Android phones whill hopefully spur the mainstream smartphone OS writers to concentrate their efforts on developing their own platforms. It's true to say that Microsoft haven't trerated their Windows OS as a mainstream product and there's still too much legacy code in 6.5, but it's still a decent OS for its intended purpose Hopefully that will be addressed in Version 7 which looks likely to be available to HD2 users as an (free?) upgrade. There's masses of quality third-party apps avaiable to maximise its smartphone potential for just about all users,.
There isn't a perfect smartphone out there and as we demand ever more features of them I doubt if there is likely to be in the forseable future, but the nice thing about the Windows Phone OS is that it is eminently hackable.
HD2 Simply Put...
Depth & Customization!
iphone got it right???
I remember hearing complaints about iphone for at least the first year, and as omneity says:
"If anyone has any doubts as to the iPhone's reliability and stability just Google "iPhone faults" and you'll see the problems users have experienced with their iPhones are considerable, with many being bricked through their hardware faults. Interestingly the most common reported faults are similar to those reported by the HTC dissenters such as slow SMS sending - maybe these are network issues? On top of that there's now the 'Astley' virus which Apple helpfully explain away as 'the users' fault' ".
fmcastro said:
We don’t have to accept …
5. a lot of small bugs on the first ROM. Apple got it right on the first and they had never (ever) built a phone before! How many phones will HTC have to make before they get a stock ROM right? The small things are often the most annoying...
Sadly, I’m going back to my 3GS… (god I hate iTunes…)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
p.s. I am a former Apple user. Iphone is more of Jobs' controlled user experience.
I couldn't stand it.
I find it ironic that Apple started out supporting open source while Gates worked hard at controlling users choice.
Now it is the reverse.
New things r always trapped in some trouble, and that's why i have paid close attention to leo, but i didn't buy it! im just waiting for a staid one.
To put it simply - the HD2 is the best phone I have ever used. I think it is awesome. I've had an iphone, etc - but the truth is there is no phone that hasn't got problems. The Iphone is falwed because it has no multi-tasking, crap camera, poor messaging (in my opinion), limited configurability, and its tied to iTunes which is horrible. The HD2 has non of the above. Yes it has flaws itself, but in my eyes less than any other phone out there at the moment.
Teneka_Khan said:
To put it simply - the HD2 is the best phone I have ever used. I think it is awesome. I've had an iphone, etc - but the truth is there is no phone that hasn't got problems. The Iphone is falwed because it has no multi-tasking, crap camera, poor messaging (in my opinion), limited configurability, and its tied to iTunes which is horrible. The HD2 has non of the above. Yes it has flaws itself, but in my eyes less than any other phone out there at the moment.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I FULLY agree with you ; I also have a iphone 3G 16 GB but is now in the drawer collecting dust. As saying goes, One man's meat is another man poison . No point debating about how good/bad the HD2 and iPhone and any other PDA. It will never end
As far as I am concerned , the HD2 is my choice now vs iPhone
gavinfabl said:
Solution - keep HD2 and get ipod Touch - best of both worlds. Connect ipod via Wifi to HD2.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yep, I totally agree...and that's just what i've now done
Yesterday I upgraded my sgs to froyo jpc with kies. I am new with Android but the post of Aery(congrats and thanks) was so clear that i didnt resist: http://forum.xda-developers.com/show...=froyo+upgrade
Froyo is of course better than eclair but Android is still disappointing to me.*EDIT: ( If the official Froyo will be better than jpc so maybe, not that disappointing)*
I miss that proper voice dial/control (over bluetooth or not) and proper connectivity control (network,data,bluetooth and gps) of the old Symbian S60 OS on my lost 5800XM
Some Android fans did say that Symbian is primitive in comparison to Android. Well the first edition of the S60 didnt even have kinectic scrolling or multi-touch( the 5800 doesnt even have a capacitive touch screen), but what do I care about those toying things? I want basic functions working properly out of the box.
Android users have to wait till version 2.2 to get voice dialing over bluetooth and it's there now, but is very crappy.
Could android developers not investigate how Symbian does that?
I have mostly dutch names in mine phone book. Android's 2.2 voice dialing doesnt support the language of the phone if its not one of the 5 or 6 of its list
With symbian voice dialing will talk the phone's language as it should be.
With android voice dialing over bluetooth behaves erractic even in english.
And voice dialing directly at the phone doesnt repeat the names that it processes and it's so buggy and also erractic
With my old Nokia 5800XM, I could keep the phone in my pocket, and while listening to music with the headset, press and hold headset's talk button say a name the device repeats it and by no further action it makes the call; without even having to take phone out of the pocket....It wont happen with my sgs.
My car have bluetooth voice system that works perfectly ansd smoothly with my old 5800xm since the very first edition of the symbian S60, without pre-programing both systems...
Nothing primitive about that
Android developers should yhink about the future. The majority of the consumers don't know or don't have time to tweak a device or a OS or help to develop it. The majority of the users want a smartphone that will do basic functions and perform well out of the box...
Because if an android device will be just about being another expensive toy with cool graphics with cool touch-screen stuff, well, that market belongs to i-Phone.
And in this way, the future is not bright; they need to get a grip
That's my opinion
Froyo is still in Beta, the official froyo is not out for the public yet
voice dial works even on 2.1
you can use google voice build in or vlingo free
for data control there is SwitchPro, works great
yes there are still some stuff to polish on Android, it's not perfect, but we are getting there
and i agree the voice dialing is a bit buggy at recognizing the proper command or name to dial even in english
regardless of what your opinion is android is growing stronger by the year and not long before it takes over iphone inmho.
this is obvious, we are 2 years behind, yet look at the speed we are picking up in such a short time
Android Market is full of useful Apps, tools, add ons, and games
i spend a whole week installing apps to see which one was better, as there are times many does the same thing, but some are better designed than other.
For me Android is the cats meow...
I had a Windows Mobile phone (HTC Mogul aka P4000 in Canada) It sucked pretty bad. If it was not for this community that phone would have been useless.
While I've never owned an Iphone, I've had a ipod touch 2nd gen for a while.
Then I got my Galaxy S... I sent a good a amount of time reading about this phone when Samsung announced it. I also sent a good amount of time reading about other HTC android devices along with android itself.
I decided on this phone due to it's specs and how eager the community sounded about it's overall potential.
Sure the iphone has a large following and a very large app store, but it's not nearly customizable as a solid android device with an eager community wanting to constantly push it to it's full potential.
my 2 cents cdn.
riz157 said:
regardless of what your opinion is android is growing stronger by the year and not long before it takes over iphone inmho.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't care if Android becomes another "hype" like the i-Phone, because it's "cool" is from Google or stuff like that.
I just want mine quite expensive Android device having the basic functions working properly out of the box.
Can you imagine what's gonna happen when Nokia decides to come up with a real high-end device, and with that I mean real fast processor, lots of Ram and Rom like in the sgs and then running Symbian^3 or Meego? The thing will fly.
That N8 is looking good but comes with the same old arm processor of the N97 just overlocked ( so I heard)
As I said I don't care about the i-Phone and all those suckers paying an abusive price to have a "hype" thing
And I dont care about how strong or rich Google gets. I am not a stock holder and i dont work for Google..do you?
I just wanted mine expensive phone having a good working stock voice dialing system.
If something is not working we have to point it out dont we?
Stop behaving like a fanboy and let them hear us...
AllGamer said:
this is obvious, we are 2 years behind, yet look at the speed we are picking up in such a short time
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, best answer till now. 2 years huh? Just that if you talk about vlingo, google voice search, voice dial of the 2.1 and all those apps on the market, you really should have a look at Symbian voice dialing; it looks like more than 2 years ahead.
Btw, Symbian S60 got it right on its first edition with the 5800XM. and that's very impressive for a phone that costs around 200 euros....
Well, but i like the bigger and brighter screen of the sgs. And its nice sound and good working wifi....but that have nothing to do with Android.....
Google said that currently only the US English is supported and working for the voice features.
The other accents, like UK English, and the other languages will be coming later.
But the good news with this, is that once the voice features are supported for a language, everything works - not only voice dialing, but also voice search, etc...
So I guess we just need to be patient.... at least google have already shown us that they are working fast.
BigMango said:
Google said that currently only the US English is supported and working for the voice features.
The other accents, like UK English, and the other languages will be coming later.
But the good news with this, is that once the voice features are supported for a language, everything works - not only voice dialing, but also voice search, etc...
So I guess we just need to be patient.... at least google have already shown us that they are working fast.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Correct me if I'm wrong but Google voice search and the voice dialing within android are 2 different things
The voice dialing in my sgs is powered by the PICO TTS engine that was quite buggy in the eclair and remains buggy in the (beta?) froyo and it is even more unfunctional over bluetooth.
The same engine behaving differently when speaking via BT and when speaking directly to the phone. Even in the standard language
All Google did is install a 3rd party app within the firmware instead of developing a voice engine within the OS.
Or is this Pico app just a temporary thing until google get things done? And where is the article?
Pls enlight me
betoNL said:
Well, best answer till now. 2 years huh? Just that if you talk about vlingo, google voice search, voice dial of the 2.1 and all those apps on the market, you really should have a look at Symbian voice dialing; it looks like more than 2 years ahead.
Btw, Symbian S60 got it right on its first edition with the 5800XM. and that's very impressive for a phone that costs around 200 euros....
Well, but i like the bigger and brighter screen of the sgs. And its nice sound and good working wifi....but that have nothing to do with Android.....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok seriously if you are that in love with symbian and Nokia why did you buy a new phone. one would assume it was because you were tired of your old one and wanted to try something new that's great that you did, but if your this unhappy quit being a fan boy and just return the damned thing already and get another symbian device
And that's what grinds my gears
Sent from my Freak E Froyoed EVO using XDA App
betoNL said:
Correct me if I'm wrong but Google voice search and the voice dialing within android are 2 different things
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
All of the voice actions are going to use the same engine.
I.ex: if you say "Call Joe" or "Navigate to Joe" or "Search for Joe" it's (obviously) the same engine. (but your phone doesn't have this engine yet).
There is a google video showing this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gGbYVvU0Z5s , and also a couple news around the web. As I said, only US is working now; the other accents and languages will be coming later. Voice actions is not even included in the international versions yet.
Currently, if you talk with a US accent it is working beautifully. But if you use another language or a UK accent it just falls on its face.
Anyway, once we get voice actions working properly in all of the languages Android will be 2 years ahead of Symbian & Co.
BigMango said:
All of the voice actions are going to use the same engine.
I.ex: if you say "Call Joe" or "Navigate to Joe" or "Search for Joe" it's (obviously) the same engine. (but your phone doesn't have this engine yet).
There is a google video showing this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gGbYVvU0Z5s , and also a couple news around the web. As I said, only US is working now; the other accents and languages will be coming later. Voice actions is not even included in the international versions yet.
Currently, if you talk with a US accent it is working beautifully. But if you use another language or a UK accent it just falls on its face.
Anyway, once we get voice actions working properly in all of the languages Android will be 2 years ahead of Symbian & Co.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So I was right, 2 different things, both of them not working properly yet.
Firstly, during annoucements of Android 2.2 with a list of improvements, one of them was bluetooth voice dialing and of course they were reffering to the unfunctional or bad working Pico TTs engine; so bluetooth voice dialing is there but doesnt work properly and that's what I mean when I say "disappointing"
We are talking about the active engine, and not about something that will be ready someday maybe...
The whole issue with voice actions is another story and quite strange as well. What was that about accents?
If I use google voice search and I speak english with my brazilian/dutch accent and it understands me completely and never fails. why online search functions work even with my accent and the other functions won't? And for online search in english I was already usingo Vlingo on my old 5800xm almost 2 years ago
Seems to be it uses exactly the same technology of Vlingo or vice-versa, that means another toy thing.
But this thread has nothing to do with future possible solutions, it's about something that was supposed to work properly right now and it doesnt.
But who knows, our friend AllGamer is right; 2 years is not much and this is just a beta version?
Let's wait and see
There must be something android did right for you to have so much time to complain and still sticking with it.
What I care about is that android is getting better almost on a daily basis.
Sent from galaxy s. JG4 + oneclick lag fix version 2.3
betoNL said:
We are talking about the active engine, and not about something that will be ready someday maybe...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Google actions is ready and working great. It was released 1 or 2 months ago.
But currently only US English is supported, this is why you don't have it on your Dutch/Brazilian phone.
betoNL said:
The whole issue with voice actions is another story and quite strange as well. What was that about accents?
If I use google voice search and I speak english with my brazilian/dutch accent and it understands me completely and never fails. why online search functions work even with my accent and the other functions won't?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There's nothing strange here. You are still using the old system that worked poorly and just don't have the new voice actions engine yet, that's all.
As for accents: UK friends of mine are getting 98+% accuracy (even when dictating SMS) when speaking with a US accent. With a UK accent it fails miserably. But this is normal, as UK English isn't supported yet.
betoNL said:
And for online search in english I was already usingo Vlingo on my old 5800xm almost 2 years ago
Seems to be it uses exactly the same technology of Vlingo or vice-versa, that means another toy thing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am not sure if your Vlingo is capable of doing this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gGbYVvU0Z5s , and to me this is not a "toy". This is the future, today. Everything done without key input, with voice commands... this is where we are heading.
Seriously, what we have now in US English is really amazing. Of course it still needs to get ironed out and all of the languages need to get supported. But Google is really moving fast.
kcharng said:
There must be something android did right for you to have so much time to complain and still sticking with it.
What I care about is that android is getting better almost on a daily basis.
Sent from galaxy s. JG4 + oneclick lag fix version 2.3
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Of course. Are you 100% satisfied? Good for you.
Many things are going good, so, I wont complain about what is not going good? What about fake annoucements? Should users not complain about that? .... Critic is also a form of contribution. You can also see it as feedback; so my sgs will get better almost on a daily basis
It wont harm your android if you'll be always objective....
I complained just once, the rest are discussions, and that's the essence of a forum right?
Be logical, man
BigMango said:
Seriously, what we have now in US English is really amazing. Of course it still needs to get ironed out and all of the languages need to get supported. But Google is really moving fast.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Again you are talking about the future and I,m talking about now. Are you playing word games?
It was officially announced: Finally voice dialing over bluetooth with Android Froyo 2.2 . Froyo is here, voice dialing over bluetooth can be activated but it's unfunctional...it doesnt work good.
Do you work for Google? So inform it to them.
And I also hope that voice actions will work offline
Cause I only use wifi and no internet in my car.
Proper voice dialing should work offline too
I rest my case
betoNL said:
Again you are talking about the future and I,m talking about now. Are you playing word games?
It was officially announced: Finally voice dialing over bluetooth with Android Froyo 2.2 . Froyo is here, voice dialing over bluetooth can be activated but it's unfunctional...it doesnt work good.
Do you work for Google? So inform it to them.
And I also hope that voice actions will work offline
Cause I only use wifi and no internet in my car.
Proper voice dialing should work offline too
I rest my case
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No. This is not the future. This is today. -> NOW<- and has been working for 1 month already.
For the 3rd time: it works in US English, but you can't install it in the other languages yet. Languages other than US are currently being implemented. FOR THIS REASON: it doesn't work on your Dutch/Brazilian phone, yet.
Of course it works offline (SMS & text dictating, local phone searches & actions) . But everything requiring an internet search (i.ex: google search and maps) will not render any results if you are offline, obviously.
BigMango said:
Seriously, what we have now in US English is really amazing. Of course it still needs to get ironed out and all of the languages need to get supported. But Google is really moving fast.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That is the major flaw of the Android, it is so US centric (so have beena the most other US based, in the beginning).
It took 10 years from Microsoft to understand that
- there is other languages and alphabets in the World than the US English
- not all people uses 12-hour clock and mm/dd/yyyy date format
It took 10 years from programmers to understand that
- the applications should use the op-system date format, there is no need to take than by themselves
The Android is far from perfect, it is moderate even in basics. It is not 2 years behind, it is 5 years behind. My Android date format is dd/mm/yyyy, yesterday I add the birthday to my contacts, the date format is dd.mm.yyyy, why? That is the most stupid thing among other date mass about.
I hate those stupid US things, but I can live with those (for a while).
Hi I tense to agree with you, android is still a premature system, for instance the network connectivity switch just terrible with sgs compare to my old n97. And the worst thing sgs has a crap gps like n97
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
yc1437 said:
for instance the network connectivity switch just terrible with sgs compare to my old n97.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't know what problem you are having with network connectivity. Even on my HTC Kaiser , which is a 3 years old Windows Mobile 6 phone that was not made for android at all, network switching is working perfectly with Froyo.
yc1437 said:
And the worst thing sgs has a crap gps like n97
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
According to the latest tests posted in the gps threads, this issue seems to be fixed in the latest beta firmware (the official release is scheduled for this month). They compared it with the HTC Hero, the Nexus One and the iphone 4. The SGS tracking is now doing as well, and its getting a lock in about 10 seconds. (check the gps poll thread)
I can feel the flames coming
OK I am definitely not disappointed with the Hardware itself. Great form factor and I converted a few of the office Apple fanatics to it... Some guys in my office actually bought the tab after seeing mine
It's my first Android device and... I am disappointed by Android (Flames coming closer) or more precisely by the lack of refinement of the "productivity" apps.
Let me be more precise: I come from the WM 6.5.5 world (boooh). Android OS is definitely more stable (No memory leaks, etc...) more finger friendly, etc... BUT also
* It has way less options, at least in its stock version vs my custom made WM ROM (Sure my Grandma could use it (This is iOSesque type of OS), but that's not exactly what I am expecting for myself)
* The email app, so much praised in many reviews is still way behind outlook for WM. I miss the little arrow sign indicating me whether the email was forwarded, replied, etc... Not even talking about all the options available in pOutlook that definitely simplify the everyday life. A lot of very simple things are just not there. If you have multiple attachments, you need to download them one by one (Have to wait for the first one to be downloaded to have the option to download the second one). Unbeded links and pictures are displayed immediately when in Outlook they are blocked first to protect you in case it's a fishing email. Etc, etc...
* You don't have a single box (Or let's say single app) for SMS, MMS, eMails
* Implementation of Activesync is not good, neither full. SMS are not synced, and there seems to be bugs and quirks here and there (Why the hell is my Sent box often TWO DAYS late on sync ?? Just havent found a way to fix this. It just refreshes... sometimes, when it feels like it)
* Copy and paste is not present everywhere, I cant seem to be able to copy from any text I see on the screen (In WM just long press and then you get the copy and paste menu and the ability to select some text). It's possible in some places that have been thought for, but not from anywhere
Etc, etc... I definitely appreciate the slickness of the OS, the smoothness overall (That said I believe my TP2 would also be super smooth with a Hummingbird processor on board...). The fact that it's a growing platform allows to have access to the latest apps while there was barely anything new for my TP2 these days. But yeah, honestly... a lot of the applications need more refinement. I guess this will grow with age (hopefully) but it's definitely not there yet at least out of the box
I am not saying this for the sole purpose of criticizing. I will keep my Tab and I do like it. But I thought the jump would be without regret and it's not the case for the moment. I feel more like I did a compromise and a move taht had to be (No interest in a closed platform like WP7 and can't stay on a dieing one). And hopefully some of you while reading me will point me to some solutions they found for themselves, some suggestions of third party applications. meanwhile I still go back and forth between my tab and my TP2 and I find it easier to email with the TP2 (OK the physical keyboard helps too) while also cant take my eyes off HTC Sense (This I know it's just up to me to make some effort and install the right stuff to have great home screens)
You have some valid points (copy & paste, sms+emails in one place) but the other features are so obvious.
You can't compare the native apps on Win (Outlook, Active Sync) that suppose to work well on Android. I wouldn't think this is a surprise.
Android definitely has a little bit of a learning curve. My EVO was my first android OS device and after learning the little quirks I am a borderline fanboy.
I am not sure I agree with the comparison to iOS. I think Apple does a lot more "dumbing down" where Android gives you more freedom but you have to learn how to use it. Apparently it's working well for Apple. Can't fault their success.
Are you missing copy/paste in a certain app? I used it just last night (just got my tab yesterday) copying my Launcher Pro plus key from an email to LP. Menu>More>Select Text>Copy, I think. Long press where you would like to paste.
Anyway, give it time. I think it'll grow on ya.
Yes you're right I was a bit unfair to compare with iOS
And yes it's true it's evolving the right way
Copy and paste: simple example. How do I copy amd pate text from a webpage?
I believe you have to press the menu button, go to 'more' and then hit 'select text'. After that gliding your finger over text will select it. Its still not refined because it doesnt add the two 'pins' to move your selection area...that is in Gingerbread I think.
More gives me only print, share page and page info...
Unfortunately...
Founds new bugs that are very unprofessional: some sms going to the wrong inbox
And some emails answers sent... Without the text I typed (empty)
And of course since I dont have the aent emails for the past 2 days I juat cant event check this
I understand it's normal to expect Microsoft technology to be better implemented by Microsoft. However if Google wants to be serious with Android in the enterprise world they need to work on their exchange implementation
honeatly this email problem is just incredible...
Forgot to add that even though there are lots of free apps, some of the very useful ones are not included by default. If you wnat a good RDP client --> $20 for instance (Free with WM) All adding up it makes Android a "luxuary" OS in some cases...
That said not to be unfair the market of free apps is quite impressive (compared with WM)
I think Android is great. The new Android 3D maps are amazing both on my Nexus One and Galaxy Tab.
That said, my single complaint so far is the lag in the native browser and with Dolphin HD. I can't say I blame this on Android OS because my N1 does not have this problem. I'm a noob so I blame this on Samsung.
Alcibiade said:
Founds new bugs that are very unprofessional: some sms going to the wrong inbox
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Got that 3 days ago, an incoming sms displaying the wrong contact!... So I found that after answering to that same wrong contact, who warned me I probably have mistaken. I wonder how this can be possible... Samsung app?
Alcibiade said:
Forgot to add that even though there are lots of free apps, some of the very useful ones are not included by default. If you wnat a good RDP client --> $20 for instance (Free with WM) All adding up it makes Android a "luxuary" OS in some cases...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Except that unlike Android, WM is not free in and of itself anyway, so the comparison is slightly flawed - only slightly though because as an end user you do not pay directly for WM, the OEM does!
Personally, I've found Wyse PocketCloud to be excellent, even in its free incarnation - it was so good, I bought the Pro version!
Of course, no OS is perfect - despite WM6s age, it still has some strengths. In many ways, it's a shame that MS threw the baby out with the bathwater with WP7!
Regards,
Dave
Alcibiade said:
More gives me only print, share page and page info...
Unfortunately...
Founds new bugs that are very unprofessional: some sms going to the wrong inbox
And some emails answers sent... Without the text I typed (empty)
And of course since I dont have the aent emails for the past 2 days I juat cant event check this
I understand it's normal to expect Microsoft technology to be better implemented by Microsoft. However if Google wants to be serious with Android in the enterprise world they need to work on their exchange implementation
honeatly this email problem is just incredible...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Android gets a lot of blame for things that have been modified by the vendor. I've been on Android since the launch of the G1. One thing I can tell you is every device is different. HTC has their own Exchange client, same with Samsung. Many times I see their proprietary apps cause these problems. It's the price we pay for open.
The Galaxy Tab's ROM is pretty flawed. Typical for a first gen device. I'm counting the days till an update is released.
My suggestion is go with an Exchange client from the market. Touchdown (no longer called that) was generally considered the best or just hang on till the next update. For SMS I use Handcent which I love.
Alcibiade said:
Forgot to add that even though there are lots of free apps, some of the very useful ones are not included by default. If you wnat a good RDP client --> $20 for instance (Free with WM) All adding up it makes Android a "luxuary" OS in some cases...
That said not to be unfair the market of free apps is quite impressive (compared with WM)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
All enterprise apps demand big bucks. In Wimo's case that's a MS app hence free. But all the other enterprise stuff is $$$ for any platform. I agree with the other poster, PocketCloud is very good. I also have an Ipad and can tell you their apps are totally "luxuary" priced.
Give the platform more time. You're new and things are different so you're just going to see the negatives. Over time I would be shocked if you could even look at a wimo device...much less use it on a daily basis.
orenxda said:
Got that 3 days ago, an incoming sms displaying the wrong contact!... So I found that after answering to that same wrong contact, who warned me I probably have mistaken. I wonder how this can be possible... Samsung app?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wait what ? That happened to me couple of days ago.
orenxda said:
Got that 3 days ago, an incoming sms displaying the wrong contact!... So I found that after answering to that same wrong contact, who warned me I probably have mistaken. I wonder how this can be possible... Samsung app?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah I think we can blame Samsung about this. It's a real shamr cause I answered in a similar fashion to the wrong girl... Got in little trouble... But in the end kind of funny
Anyway shame on Sammy on this one. Very unprofessional...
Been reading the previous posts. My point was not to be critical of the OS itself. I do believe it's a much better OS than WM. It was much more about the applications that are still rough on the edges and not as mature as for other platforms
another example: in the samsung messaging application you cannot click on an HTML link to go straight to the webpage. Which year are we? 2005?
I too am very happy with my TP2, but I want a 7" phone. Although the Tab is the most close, it is still not there: many web contents are still available to WM and iPad only, the CDMA versions cannot make calls and are too pricey for the sluggish built-in browser.
Fixup said:
I too am very happy with my TP2, but I want a 7" phone. Although the Tab is the most close, it is still not there: many web contents are still available to WM and iPad only, the CDMA versions cannot make calls and are too pricey for the sluggish built-in browser.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have both now
Just need to find a good way to sync SMS between both...
Sad point is in the US you cannot have 2 SIMs with the same number. Otherwise would be living ina perfect world
Just found out it may not be possible to change my outlook calendar entries inthe Samsung calendar
i can delete but not move it to another dats
Maybe I am not doing it right... But we are getting close to a deal breaker
Honestly Android is a cool toy but feels so far from a professional well rounded product and only comparing with WM 6.5...
more and more diaappointed day by day..
This is why android is so great though...you said you had no complaints about the hardware being used, and I hear that a lot.
There are so many developers working on android devices including the tab trying to improve the UI and enable hardware acceleration etc.
I think that within a few months the tab will have roms that will fix or work around the various issues that are present in the current tab software.
Agreed android has a great future ahead
but there is quote some work to do. We are not there yet!!
Alcibiade said:
Agreed android has a great future ahead
but there is quote some work to do. We are not there yet!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think the point is that Android scores lots of points where WinMo scores none, and vice versa!
My business uses Google Apps for Domains, so Android is a massive win for me. If your an MS shop, WinMo stills holds a great hand though 3rd party apps on Android can fill many of the gaps.
Over time we will see an awful lot of convergence - WP7 will get better and so will Android.
To be honest, for the most part, thus far Google have pitched Android as a consumer rather than business OS, and have relied on 3rd parties to provide full business integration. I expect 2011 will bring more to the biz table.
Regards,
Dave