just saw the closed thread this morning. i dont see the point of closing the thread really.
!aman! closed the thread and said
just try all the ROMs to see which one suits u best and dont start such "best/fastest ROM" threads in future."
i don't see what would hurt if we could open a poll and have everyone vote for which is the 'best overall' rom for the TMOUS HD2. sure it might just come down to users' opinion, but at the same time, who really wants to sit around and take a week or so to really try out EVERY available rom, just to find out which one works out the best? why not make a poll with all of the currently available TMOUS roms, and have a vote? that way noobs, such as myself, can just go straight for the top handful and check them out?
i'm currently using the EVO CELL rom, so far so good. a couple freezezs / delays every now and then, but i didn't do task 29. might give that a shot this weekend and reflash the rom.
you're not a chef and never cooked a rom a day in your life that's why
such threads play favoritism and causes unnecessary competition amongst chefs that do their best to give the community more options and choices.
That's not acceptable at any site (ppcgeeks, htcpedia, xda, any site)
so that's why it was closed and every thread about rom favorite will be closed because its subjective and causes flame wars
Best ROM is subjective as everyone has a different opinion, hence why best ROM threads are closed "use the search you will find many" they can also often lead to flame wars.
Hope this has answered your question and on that note thread closed.
What is the best build you have found and tell me the reason why. I just want to hear what all yall love about android on the HD2
alucardunit1 said:
What is the best build you have found and tell me the reason why. I just want to hear what all yall love about android on the HD2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
start flashing and loading then you'll find out what best suits your needs
- - - thread reported - - -
not really asking for my self i am just making a thread that others can understand what one is better for some people.
Your post is equivalent to best car brand and why.
It's redundant and pointless. People can search.
Why don't you just ask that you are too lazy to pick one and try it out? They are all good for me, and change often just for the pleasure.
alucardunit1 said:
not really asking for my self i am just making a thread that others can understand what one is better for some people.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not allowed to compare ROM's here because upset developers will just walk out.
It would be nice to read some constructive criticism as to why some people would find one ROM better than another but it could start wars and kill some ROM development.
Okay. Time to intervene.
These threads have caused nothing but nightmares for the Xda staff in the past. There's an old saying... "Opinions are like A$$holes. Everybody has one and they ALL stink."
To make it worse.. Very few people ever really share the same exact opinions and that just causes wars to start. "This build is the best" --- "NO THIS BUILD IS THE BEST"
You see what I'm saying? That's why I'm stepping in here.
From here on out, this thread will no longer be a "best builds" thread. It will be a "I personally use this build and here is why" thread.
This should prevent most of the flaming but because I know that not everybody is willing to exercise self-control when hiding behind a monitor, I'm also warning everybody right now that if they decide to flame anybody in this thread, for any reason, I will be deleting your posts and issuing infractions.
Have fun!!
dharvey4651
(Leo Forum MOD)
I just noticed this thread:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=638133
May I ask why there is a ban on discussions of which ROMs are best?
Isn't that the whole point of a forum?
Is there anything else we should be aware of? banned words, certain sentences, are there any particular phrases that we can get into trouble for?
Ever heard of freedom of speech?
Am I going to get into trouble for this message because you don't like it?
Well i think it has nothing to do with ''censure''. Just some of us think that there is no BEST ROM and one should find out the BEST ROM for himself by himself.
But i may be wrong.
There is actualy no best rom!
For every user there is a best experience/stability/usefullness
How can you say its the best rom for me if it doesnt suit my taste?
Every HD2 behaves diferently from batch to batch, so another issue, for your hd2 one build may work perfect and for me - not at all...
No point in these threads.
Go in the apropreate build thread and post there, say whatever you like - it's the best, it's the worse...
I can't see any censureship here.
There is actualy no best rom!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This may be a valid point but how would we know if we are not permitted to talk about it ?
BTW. when I titled this thread 'XDA Censured?' it was a Freudian slip of the computer keyboard I should have typed 'Censored' however 'Censure' means to formally rebuke
I happen to strongly believe in freedom of speech and if people wish to talk about what they think is the best ROM for them and why etc. then if this is indeed a forum for the perpetuation of freedom of speech I think it is very wrong that some individuals should take it upon themselves to decide that this is not a fit topic for discussion and to close threads based on there own personal and dare one say dictatorial opinions.
That is the beginning of a slippery slide down into a cesspit of censorship and we don't want a smelly forum now do we!
IanMc said:
This may be a valid point but how would we know if we are not permitted to talk about it ?
BTW. when I titled this thread 'XDA Censured?' it was a Freudian slip of the computer keyboard I should have typed 'Censored' however 'Censure' means to formally rebuke
I happen to strongly believe in freedom of speech and if people wish to talk about what they think is the best ROM for them and why etc. then if this is indeed a forum for the perpetuation of freedom of speech I think it is very wrong that some individuals should take it upon themselves to decide that this is not a fit topic for discussion and to close threads based on there own personal and dare one say dictatorial opinions.
That is the beginning of a slippery slide down into a cesspit of censorship and we don't want a smelly forum now do we!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
if all the mor... eh users where able to make just whatever post on the boards they liked everything would be a insane mess. topics that come along every week or so are usles they always have the same result. one user says THIS IS THE BEST !!!!!!!11111oneoneone the other says NO YOU SUCK THIS IS THE BEST !!!!!!!1111oneone and this wil go on for about 40 pages and still no one is any wiser.
In the meanwhile a good user just went along and found a rom he liked visually and with a nice amount of aps he likes. He found it was not his rom and try's another one and keeps trying until he finds his best rom.
The problem here is that alot of users have their opinions and they think their opinions are the only possible correct answer. And guess what oppinions can't be wrong. They can be different weird or even downright bizarre but they are all correct in their own world.
So you can create a topic and expect a flood of spam flame wars and rubbish but all it gets you is either a major Troll boner or a headache.
So you are saying that the 'mor...' users of this forum should not be allowed to decide the topics ?
So it's a kind of hit and miss thing then huh? I'll start a topic about something that I'm interested in and check back in a while to see if it's either been deleted, closed or allowed to exist?
I suppose there's an inverse law in there somewhere, a ratio of something like:
Successful topic = users subject / tin pot dictators opinions
so that the greater the number of people with the ability to close threads based on their own whims the fewer the number of successful postings and the more damage done to the integrity of the forums.
You, in the meantime, think you are doing us all a favour by blindly planting your 'loyalty' with the ones doing the censorship.
In the meanwhile a good user just went along and found a rom he liked visually and with a nice amount of aps he likes. He found it was not his rom and try's another one and keeps trying until he finds his best rom.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And then he is not allowed to tell anyone about it.
when you register acount on this site/forum,do you check YES/accept with the ruules
Because this is a development forum (or we try to be).
Disucssions on the "Best ROM" are subjective, and time limitted. Most people have thier faviorite ROM, this is not the best ROM, but they believe it is. I have seen these threads in the past and they just deteriate into "Fanboi'istic" (word a day ) debates over who's ROM is best and why.
A Clean ROM is fast and customisable, a Loaded ROM is feature rich, a themed ROM is the Chef's taste, etc.
Here is a lengthy discussion which I participated in last time this topic was raised : http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=466666
Thanks
Dave
No ROM is BEST !!!!!1111oneoneone11! (Though personally I think that ****** ROMs are good)
IanMc said:
So you are saying that the 'mor...' users of this forum should not be allowed to decide the topics ?
So it's a kind of hit and miss thing then huh? I'll start a topic about something that I'm interested in and check back in a while to see if it's either been deleted, closed or allowed to exist?
I suppose there's an inverse law in there somewhere, a ratio of something like:
Successful topic = users subject / tin pot dictators opinions
so that the greater the number of people with the ability to close threads based on their own whims the fewer the number of successful postings and the more damage done to the integrity of the forums.
You, in the meantime, think you are doing us all a favour by blindly planting your 'loyalty' with the ones doing the censorship.
And then he is not allowed to tell anyone about it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
IanMc said:
This may be a valid point but how would we know if we are not permitted to talk about it ?
BTW. when I titled this thread 'XDA Censured?' it was a Freudian slip of the computer keyboard I should have typed 'Censored' however 'Censure' means to formally rebuke
I happen to strongly believe in freedom of speech and if people wish to talk about what they think is the best ROM for them and why etc. then if this is indeed a forum for the perpetuation of freedom of speech I think it is very wrong that some individuals should take it upon themselves to decide that this is not a fit topic for discussion and to close threads based on there own personal and dare one say dictatorial opinions.
That is the beginning of a slippery slide down into a cesspit of censorship and we don't want a smelly forum now do we!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can talk the hell out of it, no one is stopping you, just do it in the right place - the build thread.
If you don't like the way moderators run the forum you can delete the account and make your personal Freedom forum or whatever you like...
Personaly I think you are a joke.
Be well and speak freely
btw
As a fellow xda user said above: you accepted the rules which the creators/owners/moderators of this forum ask us to comply with. Period!
IanMc said:
So you are saying that the 'mor...' users of this forum should not be allowed to decide the topics ?
So it's a kind of hit and miss thing then huh? I'll start a topic about something that I'm interested in and check back in a while to see if it's either been deleted, closed or allowed to exist?
I suppose there's an inverse law in there somewhere, a ratio of something like:
Successful topic = users subject / tin pot dictators opinions
so that the greater the number of people with the ability to close threads based on their own whims the fewer the number of successful postings and the more damage done to the integrity of the forums.
You, in the meantime, think you are doing us all a favour by blindly planting your 'loyalty' with the ones doing the censorship.
And then he is not allowed to tell anyone about it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I see that you do not get the point of all this:
- that thread has been closed because it has no point.
- you can discuss the best rom thing for 1000 pages and there will be no BEST ROM, because there is no best rom.
-of course you can tell other people what you think about a rom but your best rom will not be my best rom
- so this is why that thread was closed.
-it is F***ING POINTLESS
- JUST LIKE THIS THREAD.
I agree this thread is totally pointless.
It would be great if a moderator closes it as it brings nothing to discuss just like the other thread that was closed.
If everyone would open a thread like this it would be very hard to find the best rom as the board
would be all cluttered with best rom threads and yes and no discussions.
DaveShaw
That was a very helpful post, the link you posted was most helpful and I especially agree with the well-crafted response from dumpydooby.
I apologise if I have posted in the wrong place and quite understand if this thread is moved to the correct place.
You are also correct that discussions of this nature are time limited.
Obviously we can all see that this is a subject of passion to many.
In my humble opinion there should always be a 'what we think is the best ROM for device X at the moment' thread. When it does get too old or argumentative etc. then just start a new one.
berbecverde
I disagree, I think there will always be a need to discuss the most popular combination of ROM/Radio/Apps of the moment. If you feel strongly that we should not have this freedom then I feel strongly that you are wrong.
lms1407
You just revert to personal insults, I'll bet you say things like 'this conversation is over!'
Avon76
Do you really think that your post was helpful? Honestly?
Massive post wot I prepared earlier follows, look away now if you're not interested.....
I suspect that this whole thread will be deleted or removed or force closed by the censors very soon so read it while you can.
Let me illustrate my points here, remember that I am talking about my dislike for censoring these forums in general for any topics but let's use the topic of discussion of ROMs to show how the censors are damaging the integrity of the forums and shooting themselves in their own feet at the same time.
Let's do it with a thought experiment.
Developers A, B, C and D develop ROMs for device X and make them available to users.
Users, quite within their rights in my opinion decide to discuss the various merits, likes and dislikes about these ROMs in a thread called 'Best ROMs for device X' where one user says 'I liked the graphics on A's ROM but I really liked the apps on D's ROM and I found C's ROM to be a bit unstable and I'm using ROM B at the moment because ...... '
Please imagine your answer for this question.
Who will benefit from this discourse?
Developers A, B, C or D ?
The users ?
Everyone ?
It is quite obvious that some of the users with the ability to close threads have the opinion that all ROMs should be tried and that there should be no shortcuts and new users should be railroaded into having to go through all the procedures that 'everyone else has had to do' and their only method to enforce this policy is to censor what is allowed to be posted but I would like to point out that in doing so they are going against some peoples wishes, look at one of the posts in that other thread (created by a senior member) where one user states:
Personally think this thread is a good idea for people like myself don't have a lot of spare time and haven't flashed a ROM yet; but are interested in doing so and want to know a good place to start, based on more seasoned users experiences.
I for one will be keenly viewing this thread (provided it doesn't get closed!).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
However apart from all the unseen damage that censorship causes, in this particular case the developers might get some valuable insight into what users are actually looking for, a healthy competition might be the result and then who do you think is going to get the benefit in the end? Everyone!
There will always be those who want to try every ROM and Radio etc. but at the moment these people are restricted to the individual ROM threads if they want to share the results of their hard work and anyone who wants to see an objective discussion of the merits of the different ROM/Radio/Apps versions is forced to look on other forums on other websites.
The developers never really get to know what it is that the users really want.
Look at the mechanism at the moment, the user goes to the thread of developer A and says 'you're ROM is the best! Fantastic!, would it be possible to adjust this bit here?' and the developer thinks cool, they really love my ROM and he may or may not get around to adjusting that bit there.
Look at what it could be like:
Yeah, developer A's ROM is ok but I user developer B's ROM at the moment coz A's doesn't do this ...'
No kissass required, if developer A wants everyone to use his ROM then he'll need to make it like everyone wants or better.
Laurentius26
I see the massive amount of posts that you have made, I'm sure that you have been of tremendous help to a lot of people and that your opinion probably carries a lot of weight around here but I have to ask this question, would you not agree that the definition of a pointless post is that no-one replies to it?
Would you not agree that the mere fact that this topic is getting a lot of replies would indicate that it is in fact a topic of interest and therefore cannot be regarded as pointless?
I can see the potential advantages of having such threads, but seeing the number of arguments and fall outs users have already regarding ROMs abilities, chef preferences, what makes a good ROM, etc. it would fail.
If all our users were well bahaved (which they are not), they all stayed on-topic then we wouldn't need as many mods as we do now. As it is, there are many reported posts everyday from users that require mods attention, keeping the forum as organised and as friendly as we can.
Having to maintain "Best ROM" threads would be tiresome with well behaved users, just having to keep closing and re-opening new threads based on public opinion, but throw in troll, flamer's, fanbois it would be work.
In the past we have allowed "ROM Comparison" threads, that are fact driven, not opinion driven, as there is no reason not to.
My other concern is what will happen to Chefs if other users constantly down vote their ROM's (that is if they want to follow that thread as well as their own ROM threads).
Also,
Closing a thread does not censor it. It is still viewable and searchable, new useres, can search the site for the "Best HD2 ROM" and find a link to threads explaining why they are closed and what's the best way to try a new ROM. In guides I have previously assisted in writing (mskip's, Kaiser and Rhodium) it includes text advising users which is ROM to try first. If a user is new to XDA, they are encouraged to post questions in such threads, where (all been well) they will get a reply telling them to just try one after reading about the features. I have suggested NRG's ROMs to new users in the past because of their stability and popularity.
Dave
Well now with good argument like that you are changing my outlook and many of the things you say I had not considered.
I think we are very lucky to have such a place as XDA-Developers and such places show the big guns that there is also genius in the little folk.
If it proves to be too much work to maintain such threads then I quite understand why you won't have them although I can imagine a good moderator might keep an eye on such a thread and take an action like 'I am closing this thread now as it is degenerating into argument and insult, you are welcome to start a new one but be advised that I will close it also unless the discussion is kept at an acceptable level of civility' but if that is too much work then I quite understand why such a topic would not be allowed.
Thanks for your good discussion Dave, at least you don't revert to personal insults as a mechanism for argument
IanMc said:
Well now with good argument like that you are changing my outlook and many of the things you say I had not considered.
I think we are very lucky to have such a place as XDA-Developers and such places show the big guns that there is also genius in the little folk.
If it proves to be too much work to maintain such threads then I quite understand why you won't have them although I can imagine a good moderator might keep an eye on such a thread and take an action like 'I am closing this thread now as it is degenerating into argument and insult, you are welcome to start a new one but be advised that I will close it also unless the discussion is kept at an acceptable level of civility' but if that is too much work then I quite understand why such a topic would not be allowed.
Thanks for your good discussion Dave, at least you don't revert to personal insults as a mechanism for argument
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
For a bit of history this decision was made long before I was a mod, and spent my Senior member days handing out insults to those who created those threads.
Even back then when a good number of users were mature and technical, before android and the mass increase of new members with, the mods (a few still remain ) knew the problems with such threads. As such, I don't think we will ever shift from this position.
Also,
I am a stackoverflow.com user and they have a similar rules on subjective posting for many of the same reasons.
This thread is just retarded even more then the ridiculous "what the best rom" threads.
Those threads are not "censored" they are simply moved or deleted because people are getting sick of them as they are asked every day and the answer is the same every time but still you get n00bs asking.
Its like going into ice0cream shop and saying "hey what your best ice-cream", just plain stupid.
TheATHEiST
Well surely this is just your own personal opinion?
One thread in each ROM area dedicated to users findings of the various ROMs for that device could be invaluable for both developers and users instead of the complete labyrinth it is at the moment (although I read that the HD2 forums are going to be rearranged soon). And it might be a moderator decision to close the thread when it gets too large to keep it current, civil and up-to-date.
However I think people like Dave are the only ones who really know what it is like to maintain such threads.
I would like to point out though that such public forums are for public discussion, it is all too easy to say 'hey that subject is retarded' and attempt to frighten or bully people away from discussing a subject that you don't think is appropriate, but personally I think that is wrong and against the spirit of free discussion on the internet.
IanMc said:
TheATHEiST
Well surely this is just your own personal opinion?
One thread in each ROM area dedicated to users findings of the various ROMs for that device could be invaluable for both developers and users instead of the complete labyrinth it is at the moment (although I read that the HD2 forums are going to be rearranged soon). And it might be a moderator decision to close the thread when it gets too large to keep it current, civil and up-to-date.
However I think people like Dave are the only ones who really know what it is like to maintain such threads.
I would like to point out though that such public forums are for public discussion, it is all too easy to say 'hey that subject is retarded' and attempt to frighten or bully people away from discussing a subject that you don't think is appropriate, but personally I think that is wrong and against the spirit of free discussion on the internet.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Go buy a CHE t shirt and go yell at the white house fight the power and all its censorship. Seriously you accepted rules when you registered here. This is not a democracy this is a privately owned forum where moderators decide if some topic is retarded yes or no.
And i hate to bring it to you like this but a retarded monkey fish is less retarded then that topic. No amount of talking or trying to convince your topic is something different then the next what build is best for my HD2 because i am to lazy to search topic. That kind of topic gets closed nearly EVERY DAY.
So again if you are so keen to fight the power buy a che t shirt and go yell at your local government.
I would love to see a poll of "What ROM are you using on your dinc" or What is your favorite ROM".
Can we get a poll on what Rom is the most popular?
overground's post before closing that thread:
The reason we close what's referred to as "Best ROM Threads" is because the vast majority of the type end up a nasty flame fest. The reasons should be obvious. It's really a matter of opinion, and then you get the fanboys of certain devs chiming in, and well, you get it. My advice is try a few and make that choice yourself. It's easy to find the most popular ATM, because they stay on page 1 of the dev sub. That doesn't necessarily make it the best, however. Give some a shot and see what's best for you. To credit this thread, 8 pages and still civil. Seems DINC is growing up.
Thread closed
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
byrong said:
Can we get a poll on what Rom is the most popular?
overground's post before closing that thread:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I would like to see the poll numbers, period. I'm not interested in the reasons or the debates. I think it would be a mistake not to allow the vote because you want to avoid the discussions you anticipate. What does it matter anyway if people get into a heated discussion?...1- you don't have to read it. 2- that's why we have moderators. A forum should not avoid threads on controversial issues.
marcmarshall said:
I would like to see the poll numbers, period. I'm not interested in the reasons or the debates.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's even more worthless than the arguments. If you just have people clicking a button, how do you know what else they've tried? What use is it to know that Redemptive Revolution is John Smith's favorite ROM if John Smith has never used any other ROM?
That's one of the many reasons that raw numbers from such polls is generally worthless. You don't know whether any given vote is being cast by someone with solid experience, or some guy who is brand new to Android and thinks that the new ROM he just flashed is pretty. Clearly, these two votes should carry different weight, but in a poll they do not.
Besides, I do not believe that the forum software allows for a poll without an open discussion thread. If you would like to set up your own poll using another site's software, nothing is stopping you.
marcmarshall said:
I think it would be a mistake not to allow the vote because you want to avoid the discussions you anticipate. What does it matter anyway if people get into a heated discussion?...1- you don't have to read it. 2- that's why we have moderators.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't care one way or the other. I'm just a member. You're right: I can ignore such a thread.
But the quote I posted was from a moderator here, so your point that "that's why we have moderators" is short-sighted and not your call to make. Just because you think that mods should spend their time looking after an unnecessarily heated discussion does not mean that they want to spend their time that way.
I don't really care about this subject one way or the other: I just thought it would be helpful to provide you with a link to one of the countless "best ROM" threads and a quote directly from a Mod on why such threads are discouraged.
byrong said:
That's even more worthless than the arguments. If you just have people clicking a button, how do you know what else they've tried? What use is it to know that Redemptive Revolution is John Smith's favorite ROM if John Smith has never used any other ROM?
That's one of the many reasons that raw numbers from such polls is generally worthless. You don't know whether any given vote is being cast by someone with solid experience, or some guy who is brand new to Android and thinks that the new ROM he just flashed is pretty. Clearly, these two votes should carry different weight, but in a poll they do not.
Besides, I do not believe that the forum software allows for a poll without an open discussion thread. If you would like to set up your own poll using another site's software, nothing is stopping you.
I don't care one way or the other. I'm just a member. You're right: I can ignore such a thread.
But the quote I posted was from a moderator here, so your point that "that's why we have moderators" is short-sighted and not your call to make. Just because you think that mods should spend their time looking after an unnecessarily heated discussion does not mean that they want to spend their time that way.
I don't really care about this subject one way or the other: I just thought it would be helpful to provide you with a link to one of the countless "best ROM" threads and a quote directly from a Mod on why such threads are discouraged.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You make good points byrong. I can understand that moderators don't want to spend a lot of time in such a debate, especially if it gets heated.
I also see how some opinions are more experienced and valuable than others. I also know that what makes a ROM attractive to one person another person might not care at all about, and that there there are a tremendous amount of variables to be considered in a single vote. All that said, In the aggregate when there is a large amount (thousands?) of votes, I think the result might be interesting to see. Maybe your right though and it would just be more noise than information.
Certainly if the forum software does not allow for poll vote pages this discussion is moot and maybe a bigger waste of time than the proposed thread might be!
Why didnt you just make this thread a poll? Its weird that you started a thread wanting to see a poll but you could of just made this thread a poll. You still could make this a poll by clicking on Thread Tools. Weird
incubus26jc said:
Why didnt you just make this thread a poll? Its weird that you started a thread wanting to see a poll but you could of just made this thread a poll. You still could make this a poll by clicking on Thread Tools. Weird
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ha- I remember wondering why I never saw polls on XDA and I thought I had noticed in the past there was no option to start a poll in the thread tools. I see now I could have, duh
At this point I'm almost swayed against it but I am going to try the thread tool and start the poll right after this post.
BTW- thanks for WarmZ, one of the few I've tried and a great ROM imho!
Edit- Never started a poll before. Of course I would I have to list all the ROMS as choices. Going to take a little ahhh...effort, and will have to wait a bit. I have to start on my taxes!
Well taxes done but I now realize byrong is right and how pointless this would be. Hopefully this thread will be yanked.