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I've been giving some thought of porting my apps to Windows Mobile and iPhone in order to reach a bigger (potential) market.
Just wondering if any Android developers are doing this. And if so, are you getting sales from the ported app?
I don't have any apps to port, so I can't speak from experience, but look at this article:
xttp://news.cnet.com/8301-1035_3-20015799-94.html (change the x in front)
The Android OS has a larger market share of the mobile phone market. If your apps are equally desirable to Android users , I can't think of a reason not to rewrite them from android.
you should port the application. You can see all good application is availiable in different platforms. Like need for speed. It would be good to sale in different platform, otherwise someone will copy your application.
A couple of good points, thank you. It's not like my apps are super-selling right now; I'm more of a "this app is functional" vs. "this app is flashy". Unfortunately, a lot of app buyers want the flashy (or both).
Granted, stuff I've written has only been on the market for 5 days. I'm not sure I want to pick-up 2 more programming languages right now. I'm an unemployed business programmer (COBOL, C++, SQL, DB2 and Oracle databases) trying to earn a little money on the side (or a lot if I can find that "killer" app).
I might just hang with Android for now and try to code some other projects. Then maybe if one takes-off, I can port to other smartphone OS's.
Hi all.
Haven't seen this topic yet so I thought I'd introduce it. Has a petition ever been sent directly to Microsoft to allow jailbreaking and development of apps in a Cydia like store. I'm positive this would increase the popularity of wp8. There are are so many little things like decreasing the interval for updating live tile, and creating playlists on the phone itself. Widgets would also be nice. I just got a 920 and like it a lot. I was using launcher8 on my gn2 before and that launcher allowed widgets on tiles, more rectangular tile options etc.
Are you really think that Microsoft or somebody else care about these petitions?
Useless guy said:
Are you really think that Microsoft or somebody else care about these petitions?
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if enough people sign, then yes I do. I'm convinced that many iOS and android users would try a windows phone. There would be far more developers making apps also.
Jailbreaking will never be allowed on windows phone becuase Microsoft wants to win over the business sector. One of the reason the secure boot was implemented was because of businesses complaining about security on WP7.
Besides, there aren't really BIG things to get from jailbreaking, other than useless things some individuals care about. the vast majority of WP8 users are happy with their phones, plus most of the things you are asking (like adding playlists on the phone), will be supported eventually.
Lowering the interval for live tiles is a really bad idea btw.
If microsoft ever allows access to the file system, there will be no need for anything else: developers will pick it up from there and do their thing.
Ain't ever going to happen. Ms is bent over backwards by OEMS and carriers
Sent from my Arc using xda app-developers app
we need to start a kickstarter or offer a bounty on xda
I am sure if we started a bounty or kickstarter and rightfully paid one of the hackers to jailbreak wp8 they could get the job done a lot sooner
so how shall we go about this?
I am ready to offer my contribution
noelito said:
I am sure if we started a bounty or kickstarter and rightfully paid one of the hackers to jailbreak wp8 they could get the job done a lot sooner
so how shall we go about this?
I am ready to offer my contribution
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Still won't happen dude. I don't know but there seems to be some sort of aversion to WP by all the devs. The iPhone/iPad community has a number of devs piling over eachother to bring out the "next best way to JB". Android, I don't even need to get started. Other OSs too will fall in place soon. But what keeps the devs away from WP is a bit of a mystery to me.
BTW, I hope you know what happened to the kids that jailbroke the first Gen WP devices. They got hired by MS and were given a T shirt, if my memory is good.
So... that's that.
It's hilarious how you people believe that is easy to exploit WP8, Devices that use it have Secure Boot and Bitlocker so exploiting the boot process is practically impossible, exploiting on app-level is also hard as all apps run over a sandbox and the user has no administrator privileges so you can't use the sandbox exploitation available for Windows RT.
Plus there's overall no appeal for hacking it other than it runs over NT.
I think we should do it, there is nothing to loose, but it shouldn't be for jail breaking but for allowing file system access similar to Windows RT
Everybody can try to found a exploit.
If somebody will have luck, he will be the man....
But like people here say...
Its very very hard!
Sent from my GT-I8750 using Board Express
It's better for Microsoft (in the long run) that the OS will not be jailbroken: Jailbroken devices can install pirated applications, and pirated applications makes application developers angry.
Currently, app devs have no choice but to develop their applications to the 2 major OSs out there (iOS and Android), and know that in some point it is quite likely that people who jailbreak their devices can install pirated copies of their applications.
In the long run, as WP would start gaining major market share, application developers would be more keen to focus their development for WP as they'd know their property could not be pirated (if, supposedly, WP will remain unhacked).
This is of course only hypothetical - there's no protection which is made by men and cannot be hacked by men, and I'm more than sure that the more user-base and interest WP gains, the more likely is that someone would find a loophole in the OS and it'd be jailbroken...
And maybe not
Thread moved to General
I am as well very certain that Microsoft will not allow for Jailbreaking of the devices. They have some programs that will get you a free dev account to develop on top of the Plattform but they don't Support changes to the Plattform itself. If you want to make your Point about giving Devs certain APIs go to wpdev.uservoice.com and Support them with your votes.
As for jailbreaking WP: I'm sure it can be done because in the end: techniques exist to exploit basically everything but as was already said: Microsoft isn't making it easy.
StevieBallz said:
I am as well very certain that Microsoft will not allow for Jailbreaking of the devices. They have some programs that will get you a free dev account to develop on top of the Plattform but they don't Support changes to the Plattform itself. If you want to make your Point about giving Devs certain APIs go to wpdev.uservoice.com and Support them with your votes.
As for jailbreaking WP: I'm sure it can be done because in the end: techniques exist to exploit basically everything but as was already said: Microsoft isn't making it easy.
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It may be possible, but as for now they have closed damn near every hole we could think of. I'd say the only way we can hope for SOME progress is if we can exploit the root certificate and policies somehow. I know GoodDayToDie had a few good potential ideas. It's not that the device NEEDS to be jailbroken, we need to be given more trust. I feel as if Microsoft automatically feels like we will screw everything up so it's being our overprotective mother instead. We all know what happens when you are too overprotective to those you care about.....
With that said, if we can just be given a LITTLE more freedom.. That's all I ask for. I don't think we would have to worry about any type of malware since the App Hub process is smart enough to give me the red X if I'm trying to call MessageBox.Show() from a background task.
/endrant.
What if we paid you the bounty?
Sent from my SGH-T899M using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
iOS is certified afaik for government use, so the business security issue is specious. Not everybody will hack their device anyway.
There are different levels of security certifications, similarily to Mil-Spec Standards that exist for a lot of different criteria. Allowing people to do more with their devices isn't really at the core of Microsoft's concerns here. They don't try to push it though as they want applications in the Store and not on the web. Piracy is likely to play a role here too.
As for a bounty to make a JailBreak happen - it might be an incentive for certain developers to start looking into it. With WP7 the way most of the time was to hack the Bootloader and then flash a custom ROM to allow for additional access. With WP8 people might need to look into other ways in given that Secure Boot is likely to be a very hard nut to crack. Given that the original Jailbreak for WP7 relied on custom certificates it's likely that Microsoft invested there to close this off better but it's of course still worth investigating.
The more important part in the end would be to get Microsoft to make more available through the official APIs. They are extending those and this has made more functionality available every time they did a major update to the OS (Mango, Apollo).
Another point to note is that native interop is now part of the regular SDK. It's therefore likely that native APIs will be better protected against accesses from unauthorized Apps than they have been in WP7 (where the problem was getting native code to run at all).
RCranium666 said:
if enough people sign, then yes I do. I'm convinced that many iOS and android users would try a windows phone. There would be far more developers making apps also.
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Not trying to be negative but I don't think the would care. On their won suggestion site (http://windowsphone.uservoice.com/forums/101801-feature-suggestions/suggestions/2281201-custom-sounds-for-sms-mms-email-notifications-e) the haven't even responded to the 40,000 + petitions that people have been voting for 2 years for custom MMS\SMS; something that is so easy to do.
Thanks for everyone's responses. I just went back to my gn2. I found too many compromises in wp8. The funny thing is, I use a wp8 launcher on android and it's much more versatile than wp8 itself. The l920 was also a disappointment. I'm no stranger to phone cameras and I was rarely able to take a good picture with it. I like the l920's design better than the gn2, but not much else.
I'll start by saying this isn't a post asking how to get paid apps from your phone onto OUYA illegally or how to download them DRM free.
Those of us who have our OUYA's have become aware of how easy it is to install apps, but has anyone tried to take an app from OUYA and put it onto another Android device? Is this something that can be done?
I ask this because of my one (and only) concern with OUYA is developers porting over games/apps that are already on the Google Market. An example of this that we can already see is Final Fantasy III. It's the same game (same code) with just a few tweaks to work better with the controller, but it's $15 on both the OUYA store and Google Play.
IMO, if someone has bought it on Google Play, they should be able to get it on the OUYA, but that's not currently something that can happen. It shouldn't be a legal issue, since both are Android.
Or am I looking at this wrong and should forget about OUYA being Android (and linked to Google Play) and think of it more like the difference between downloading a game on Playstation 3 and xbox 360? And just be happy that we CAN install non-paid apps not "supported" by OUYA?
I am all for supporting the OUYA and even Google Play, which is why I'm not just going out to bootleg the game, but if we can transfer paid apps/games from one phone to the other, from tablets to phones, am I thinking wrong in feeling we should be able to transfer them to the OUYA as well?
JLCollier2005 said:
I'll start by saying this isn't a post asking how to get paid apps from your phone onto OUYA illegally or how to download them DRM free.
Those of us who have our OUYA's have become aware of how easy it is to install apps, but has anyone tried to take an app from OUYA and put it onto another Android device? Is this something that can be done?
I ask this because of my one (and only) concern with OUYA is developers porting over games/apps that are already on the Google Market. An example of this that we can already see is Final Fantasy III. It's the same game (same code) with just a few tweaks to work better with the controller, but it's $15 on both the OUYA store and Google Play.
IMO, if someone has bought it on Google Play, they should be able to get it on the OUYA, but that's not currently something that can happen. It shouldn't be a legal issue, since both are Android.
Or am I looking at this wrong and should forget about OUYA being Android (and linked to Google Play) and think of it more like the difference between downloading a game on Playstation 3 and xbox 360? And just be happy that we CAN install non-paid apps not "supported" by OUYA?
I am all for supporting the OUYA and even Google Play, which is why I'm not just going out to bootleg the game, but if we can transfer paid apps/games from one phone to the other, from tablets to phones, am I thinking wrong in feeling we should be able to transfer them to the OUYA as well?
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I have been workign on this issue myself. I've yet to figure out a way to do it. I once had a Framework package that let me get to the Google Account login screen but would never actualyl connect to Google.
dibblebill said:
I have been workign on this issue myself. I've yet to figure out a way to do it. I once had a Framework package that let me get to the Google Account login screen but would never actualyl connect to Google.
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*hint*
/mnt/asec/<name of app>/pkg.apk
Sent from my Nexus 7 using xda premium
JLCollier2005 said:
IMO, if someone has bought it on Google Play, they should be able to get it on the OUYA, but that's not currently something that can happen. It shouldn't be a legal issue, since both are Android.
Or am I looking at this wrong and should forget about OUYA being Android (and linked to Google Play) and think of it more like the difference between downloading a game on Playstation 3 and xbox 360? And just be happy that we CAN install non-paid apps not "supported" by OUYA?
I am all for supporting the OUYA and even Google Play, which is why I'm not just going out to bootleg the game, but if we can transfer paid apps/games from one phone to the other, from tablets to phones, am I thinking wrong in feeling we should be able to transfer them to the OUYA as well?
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You can transfer them by using the post above me's method (basically, use root access to rip the APK), but sometimes you'll hit copy-protection snags. I really am just responding to weigh into the first comment of this selected quote.
It is actually a legal issue, and a pretty nasty one at that. Both devices being Android is wholly irrelevant, because it's not the operating system that matters, but the rules and EULA of each platform. It's easy to mix the two with Android, since almost no one runs "bare" Android-- most of us run the Google-flavored platform, complete with the Play Store and its own set of rules. When you buy apps from the Play Store, you basically agree to only run them on certified hardware and not to make unauthorized copies. I suspect there's similar terms in OUYA's store agreement (else you'd never get large studios to sign on).
Such being the case, any transferring of paid APKs (or even non-paid ones) is probably illegal. As to whether or not it's ever enforced (or indeed, enforceable)? Totally different question, and it's probably no on both counts.
I agree with overall with Rirere. This probably boils down to that we actually don't own the apps, but have licenses to use them. And most likely the license is tied to the hardware or device serial number. But Google build in easy transfer so we don't have to rebuy the licenses when each new device.
This is actually more on a old issue, but on a newer devices. The PC market has been dealing with softtheft since the 80s. You rarely ever buy the software. It's just license to use it.
The potential issue is DRM. The FCC clearly states using anything to break DRM encryption is illegal. This is why making copies or ripping DVD or blue ray movies, such as those at your favorite retailers, is illegal.
My guess, even if it is trackable, I don't think a developer is going to care as long as you actually purchases the game somewhere and you're just using it on your device. Not giving it to friends or others. Their issue is more that a game will be very popular, but half the people who have it, bit torrented it, which does not put food on their table.
I know on my Galaxy Note 2 for Sprint, GTAVC isn't available through Google Play. I bought on my Android tablet. Made an APK and put it on the GN2 and runs well. I wrote Rockstar what I did, so hopefully they can fix the issue. They have it in writing I did something illegal. Did not get a cease order or law suit threat. Got a thanks.
If you're that concerned, just use open source applications. There's a license but it's more about distribution channels and the environment it's used in. So you can side load all your want on the Ouya (with a very rare exception(.
Thanks for the replies.
My concern wasn't what would happen if I did get them to work/strip the DRM (It's easy enough to find the apps with their DRM stripped anyway), it was just more of a frustration at developers charging what would be double for the same app essentially, but after I posted this, I came to the realization that, as Rirere said, both being android was irrelevant. Just because they are programmed for the same base doesn't mean they should work on all pieces of technology with that base. OUYA is not a Google product in anyway and so therefore the licence I bought with my purchase has nothing to do with the licence I can purchase through OUYA.
It's a really interesting topic and goes back to something I first thought of when eBooks first came out. Is it wrong to download a copy of an ebook to a book that you purchased? It comes down to the fact that yes, they are two different licences, even if they contain the same information.
Anyway, thanks again, very interesting stuff!
it's a topic that gets more complicated as technology moves forward.
lovekeiiy said:
it's a topic that gets more complicated as technology moves forward.
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Absolutely. Because often times what technology gives us the ability to do, and what the law says we can do are at odds.
In cases where things aren't/can't be enforced, it comes down to common sense.
Developers see a way to use their skills to make something that they (and hopefully others) value. If you value what they have made and want to encourage creation of similar products, you tell them by supporting their efforts (i.e. buying the "license", donating, etc). It benefits them (food on the table) and you (you didn't have to spend the time to learn the language and write the app but still share in the benefits).
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This is my biggest problem with Ouya. They are using their relatively cheap hardware to try to lock us into their ecosystem. Which is definitely not in our best interests. Any game that can play on the Ouya can play on out phones and tablets. I appreciate what they are doing, but I don't think anyone should be buying software from their store. I want an Ouya, but not until the actual play store gets on it. Now, I'm fine if they do like Amazon and make their app store available on all devices. But right now, I think we should be looking into micro consoles like the Mad Catz M.O.J.O. which will be all around better than the Ouya and not try any proprietary nonsense. But I am sure it will cost more.
mybook4 said:
Absolutely. Because often times what technology gives us the ability to do, and what the law says we can do are at odds.
In cases where things aren't/can't be enforced, it comes down to common sense. ...
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True, some laws end up stinking because they're being applied to thing that weren't even imagined when the law was created. Some stuff just falls into a weird spot where it's illegal, but, probably not mean to applied to certain aspects of life. Like DRM on discs. It's meant to keep people from pirating the material. Yet, I don't think movie studios really expect us to buy a copy for every device we want to view the content on. Although, they would love it if we did. The just don't people consuming the content without paying in some form.
Nate Rules said:
This is my biggest problem with Ouya. They are using their relatively cheap hardware to try to lock us into their ecosystem. Which is definitely not in our best interests. ...
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What do you call the Google Play store? The only difference is just the scope of the ecosystem. Personally, I don't have an issue with their store. The hypothesis is if an app is on it, it's going to run on the Ouya; maybe not all apps after a few iterations on the console and hardware is upgraded, but most will work. Unlike Google play where it's fairly choatic mess. A recent example is GTAVC. It's support to work on Galaxy Note 2, but Googple Play won't let people with the Sprint get it.
I just assumed the Ouya store would have been more like Amazon one. Yet, what they did makes sense. They did not design the hardware for touch inputs really. They have a basically a trackpad on it. But it's really meant to use a gamepad. How many apps are designed to use one. How many within just games. Just look at what we're seeing with sideloaded apps. Granted Google Play can be filtered. But then, Ouya developers will have to designed for more than one display resolution resolution, or they have to filter the games as well.
Plus, how is Ouya to make money? Hardware only? We see companies that do this and how many they have to make, ie Madcatz. Or would you prefer they just have higher prices for any or all applications that can be used on Ouya to cover Ouya's and Google's fee.
They didn't do anything wrong to any of us who purchased the Ouya. They're trying to make some money. They saw a place where people had a want (play their Android games on the TV) and a need (low entry point for game developers). It's niche market as is.
It's not a great analogy, but you'll get the idea. It's almost like complaining to Microsoft that we can't play form the Xbox that have versions for the PC on the PC with no extra cost. Same game right? Yet, it's a different platform. The Xbox is basically a PC just with more curtailed hardware. The Ouya is basically the same situation. It's just using the Android as the OS and framework.
So maybe the better question to ask, what exactly did you expect, not want, when choose to back it on Kickstater (I'm assuming you did this). I propose you made a bad assumption and seem to have issue with it, rather than adjust and see what happens. If you really don't like it, sell it. Just not going to get $100 for it. But I'm sure someone on XDA, http://www.ouyaforums.com/, http://ouyaforum.com/forum.php, http://forums.ouya.tv/, or many others ouya based sites a Google search to bring up. It'll give you some many towards the Madcatz one.
lovekeiiy said:
What do you call the Google Play store? The only difference is just the scope of the ecosystem. Personally, I don't have an issue with their store. The hypothesis is if an app is on it, it's going to run on the Ouya; maybe not all apps after a few iterations on the console and hardware is upgraded, but most will work. Unlike Google play where it's fairly choatic mess. A recent example is GTAVC. It's support to work on Galaxy Note 2, but Googple Play won't let people with the Sprint get it.
I just assumed the Ouya store would have been more like Amazon one. Yet, what they did makes sense. They did not design the hardware for touch inputs really. They have a basically a trackpad on it. But it's really meant to use a gamepad. How many apps are designed to use one. How many within just games. Just look at what we're seeing with sideloaded apps. Granted Google Play can be filtered. But then, Ouya developers will have to designed for more than one display resolution resolution, or they have to filter the games as well.
Plus, how is Ouya to make money? Hardware only? We see companies that do this and how many they have to make, ie Madcatz. Or would you prefer they just have higher prices for any or all applications that can be used on Ouya to cover Ouya's and Google's fee.
They didn't do anything wrong to any of us who purchased the Ouya. They're trying to make some money. They saw a place where people had a want (play their Android games on the TV) and a need (low entry point for game developers). It's niche market as is.
It's not a great analogy, but you'll get the idea. It's almost like complaining to Microsoft that we can't play form the Xbox that have versions for the PC on the PC with no extra cost. Same game right? Yet, it's a different platform. The Xbox is basically a PC just with more curtailed hardware. The Ouya is basically the same situation. It's just using the Android as the OS and framework.
So maybe the better question to ask, what exactly did you expect, not want, when choose to back it on Kickstater (I'm assuming you did this). I propose you made a bad assumption and seem to have issue with it, rather than adjust and see what happens. If you really don't like it, sell it. Just not going to get $100 for it. But I'm sure someone on XDA, http://www.ouyaforums.com/, http://ouyaforum.com/forum.php, http://forums.ouya.tv/, or many others ouya based sites a Google search to bring up. It'll give you some many towards the Madcatz one.
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I actually haven't got one, I am thinking about getting one. I'm just weighing my options. I also own a Moga pro, so I can play with any device. It even has a clip to hook my Note 2 on and play it like a portable game system. I see no reason for the split of ecosystems. It is in our best interest to support companies that are looking out for us. I support Android because you don't see a lot of limitations just to make Google more money. I understand what Ouya is doing. I just don't think we should support the limitations. Think of what the iphone would be if people didn't just buy it no matter what.
Nate Rules said:
I actually haven't got one, I am thinking about getting one. I'm just weighing my options. I also own a Moga pro, so I can play with any device. It even has a clip to hook my Note 2 on and play it like a portable game system. I see no reason for the split of ecosystems. It is in our best interest to support companies that are looking out for us. I support Android because you don't see a lot of limitations just to make Google more money. I understand what Ouya is doing. I just don't think we should support the limitations. Think of what the iphone would be if people didn't just buy it no matter what.
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While my OP did pose the question of is it right for OUYA to have their own store and not Google Play (basically) and expect people to buy on both, I have realized that the OUYA and my Galaxy S3 are not the same, they are not made by the same people nor do they run the same software. Are they both built on top of Android? Yes, but one is a Google-based phone and the other is not, hence the reason there would be no Google Play.
The OUYA is, at it's core, a video game system that can/will run some apps. There is no reason they SHOULD include the Google Play store, and I think if they had it would have caused more problems than it satisfied. Do I think that developers should cut a deal to those who already bought their games on their phone/tablet? Sure! But I also wish I could get a discount on my PC for games I bought on the 360!
Also the people at OUYA have outright said that they are open to letting people do whatever they want with the thing, put custom roms, recovery, sideload apps, etc., which is way more than any other console (or phone/tablet for that matter) has ever done!
To further the analogy of a PC and 360, they both run off of Windows, just as the OUYA and S3 run off of Android. The difference, and why we are so spoiled, is because Android is open source, so we feel some sort of "right", even though we really shouldn't. If I could sideload a game bought onto Steam onto your Xbox 360 with no problems would I do it? most likely, but I would never expect that and I think that's what a lot of people expected with the OUYA, a fully Google integrated Android video game console, and that's just not what it is.
And that's not a bad thing.
JLCollier2005 said:
While my OP did pose the question of is it right for OUYA to have their own store and not Google Play (basically) and expect people to buy on both, I have realized that the OUYA and my Galaxy S3 are not the same, they are not made by the same people nor do they run the same software. Are they both built on top of Android? Yes, but one is a Google-based phone and the other is not, hence the reason there would be no Google Play.
The OUYA is, at it's core, a video game system that can/will run some apps. There is no reason they SHOULD include the Google Play store, and I think if they had it would have caused more problems than it satisfied. Do I think that developers should cut a deal to those who already bought their games on their phone/tablet? Sure! But I also wish I could get a discount on my PC for games I bought on the 360!
Also the people at OUYA have outright said that they are open to letting people do whatever they want with the thing, put custom roms, recovery, sideload apps, etc., which is way more than any other console (or phone/tablet for that matter) has ever done!
To further the analogy of a PC and 360, they both run off of Windows, just as the OUYA and S3 run off of Android. The difference, and why we are so spoiled, is because Android is open source, so we feel some sort of "right", even though we really shouldn't. If I could sideload a game bought onto Steam onto your Xbox 360 with no problems would I do it? most likely, but I would never expect that and I think that's what a lot of people expected with the OUYA, a fully Google integrated Android video game console, and that's just not what it is.
And that's not a bad thing.
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Well, I see where you are coming from. Ouya certainly doesn't have to let us do anything. But there are companies out there that will. I wish we never gave Microsoft so much control over our stuff. I don't view that as a good thing. Also, if Samsung tried to block the Play Store from your S3, would that be ok. Heck No. Everyone would be outraged. It's Android that will make this whole catagory awesome. But it isn't just the console, it's the whole ecosystem. http://www.mogaanywhere.com/about-moga/moga-pro-controller/
This is the Moga Pro. This plus your phone can do anything the Ouya can do. They have their own marketplace. But all it does is show you which games that have been optimized for the moga. It then links you to the Play store. No need to re-buy anything.
I was all set to get an Ouya until I was reading on here that Ouya will try to stop any custom roms. Now I am bummed. I hope that you are right and they let us do what ever we want to it.
Nate Rules;42739819... I also own a Moga pro said:
And this may be where the issue lies with so many. Smartphones and the Ouya were not designed to meet the same needs. Yes, they made both run on Android and share hardware. End of the day, the Ouya was designed to be an Android based game system. Not just a general Android device that can be hooked up to the TV, ie a WiFi tablet with no screen.
You also touched the conflict I've had with the Ouya ever since it was announced on Kickstarter. The redundancy to other devices, specifically Android based smartphones and tablets. Serious, I can do everything on the Ouya with either my Galaxy Note 2 or Infinity Pad tablet. I just don't want to leave permanently attached to the TV. I also hoped that supporting it, it would show there is a market for an alternative gaming system, and maybe get developers attention, which hopefully can bring some good games to Android devices, versus just stuff like Angry Birds or ported classic games like GTA (which are still fun to play).
Nonetheless, Ouya store makes sense for both the consumers and as a business model. Whether it'll be successful, that I won't venture to guess. But it falls along the line I've seen in regards to OnLive. A lot people I know had issue with the face that there was no physical disc. They didn't like that they couldn't control having the game. Not exactly the same, I see that fact that people not having access to games on Google Play being following the same logic. The common theme, I'm not buying any games I can't use on all my Android devices.
That said, I'm not saying people shouldn't have that opinion. It's perfectly valid. Yet, to apply that thinking to any device build on the Android OS I believe is being obtuse.
On a side note, I didn't realize the MOGA could fit the GN2. I went with GameKlip and Clingo Neklit combo and use PS3 controller and Sixaxis Controller for my mobile gaming. I like it. I thought the MOGA could only be used with games that had MOGA code, so you couldn't use it with other games such as emulators. That was my issue with it.
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Yeah, the Moga Pro easily fits the Note 2 but it only goes about a centimeter more so I am hoping the Note 3 will fit in it. But it also has 2 modes. It does it's Moga optimized thing which is pretty awesome. And it has the regular bluetooth controller mode. So it works with all games and emulators that can do that.
http://www.engadget.com/2013/06/20/nvidia-shield-300-june-27/#comments
Just saw this on Engadget. This is the nVidia Shield and in the video it states that their store will show you what games work and then link you to the Play Store just like the Moga.
I may still get the Ouya in hopes that it will get hacked good. But it pains me to support such a company. I do appreciate that they are trying to advance mobile gaming.
But once the real Android consoles come out, they will have all of the games that the Ouya has and the Ouya will be forgotten. The Ouya 2 will be a failure and there will be a lot of people wondering why they bought games that are of no use to them now. This is the rout Ouya is taking, they just want to make a bundle off of the early adopters.
Nate Rules said:
... I do appreciate that they are trying to advance mobile gaming. ... they just want to make a bundle off of the early adopters.
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Thanks for sharing your experience on the MOGA. Very interesting. I don't think I would have gotten it, but they didn't explain that well on their site when I checked it out. I already had the Sixaxias app and extra PS3 controllers by that time.
Actually, Ouya isn't trying to advance mobile gaming. What they're really trying setup is more a platform for the small or independent game developers because many other platforms are entry costs are significantly more. It's because Android is open source, tools are developed, and other items related are also open source. Seriously, the Ouya we all get is a developer console. All you do is just register with Ouya as a developer and it opens up the developers menus--make, and builds. The rest is more just installing Android and Ouya developer kits.
I would say for the general consumer, most aren't going to feel jaded because they're not going to access to Google Play. It's a $100 gaming box that uses Android OS. Since it's so new, most games aren't that special. If anything, I've been disappointed about the controller with it's quality control. The console itself is fine. I'm not holding the lack of quality games against them. It's too new in release and concept. But maybe if they can get the numbers, we'll game developers making more full fledged games, like those on major gaming consoles. Consumers have shown that if it's a fun game, graphics are not a critical via the Wii.
As for the money grab, I'm not buying it. The real money is in the market and the 30% fee they'll get off the sales. Same concept with iTunes, Google Play. I don't know what the fee is, but it's what consoles do with their online markets and royalty fee to put a game on a disc for the console.
The MOGA is a cool concept, but honestly it's not something that is not in the same realm as OUYA. If I wanted a portable gaming system with full controls I'd carry around a DS. The MOGA adds a good amount of bulk and I would not carry it around all the time. In the end, the MOGA would be a waste of money (for me, it's a good concept for some I'm sure) even at $40. I'd rather spend the extra money and get something I can play on my TV. Like the post above me said, I have controllers laying around that I can use with my phone if I really wanted to play on that screen. The point of gaming on my phone is to do it when I least expect it (i.e. stuck in a line or waiting for someone) and the MOGA is just inconvenient
I may not have felt this way while I was in school, where I could stick it in my backpack and leave it there. I know there are probably a lot of people who would jump on getting the MOGA for $40 so I'm not putting it down, just saying they're two different things. One is essentially a bluetooth controller and the other is a home console.
Android is by far the cheapest platform to create hardware around right now, not to mention it's pretty stable. OUYA might be the first fully backed Android console, but it won't be the last and I can guarantee any developer who wants to make an impact in this new sub-genre of consoles will NOT include the google play market. If they did, there console would turn into nothing more than an old phone with an HDMI out port, a dead end when it comes to profit. Either that or they'd end up charging 500+ for it, which I don't think would sell.
Mad Catz M.O.J.O.
Nate Rules said:
This is my biggest problem with Ouya. They are using their relatively cheap hardware to try to lock us into their ecosystem. Which is definitely not in our best interests. Any game that can play on the Ouya can play on out phones and tablets. I appreciate what they are doing, but I don't think anyone should be buying software from their store. I want an Ouya, but not until the actual play store gets on it. Now, I'm fine if they do like Amazon and make their app store available on all devices. But right now, I think we should be looking into micro consoles like the Mad Catz M.O.J.O. which will be all around better than the Ouya and not try any proprietary nonsense. But I am sure it will cost more.
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Hello Nate, this is Jose from Mad Catz, we are very excited about our upcoming M.O.J.O. launch and let all of you check how this new device will be. We worked to achieve the best Android Micro-console solution so far, and I think we achieved it.
Fresh updates will come shortly, by now you can check our new video which reflects our entertainment solution on Youtube: MadCatzCompany.
Enjoy!
J
Nate Rules said:
I was all set to get an Ouya until I was reading on here that Ouya will try to stop any custom roms. Now I am bummed. I hope that you are right and they let us do what ever we want to it.
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That's FUD. Ouya doesn't do a thing to stop custom ROMs. The bootloader is unlocked. I also keep hearing that the recovery mode is crippled, but that's wrong too. You just need a USB keyboard to boot into recovery and to navigate the menus. There's a lot of people jumping to the worst possible conclusions anytime something doesn't work exactly the way they thought it would. Just this week, when people were having trouble installing The Cave, a couple of guys decided Double Fine and Ouya had conspired to implement some form of DRM scheme to block rooted consoles. Turns out it was just a firmware bug that affects large games. The fix was released today.
That said, until the StockPlus ROM finishes their version of Abominable Snowman (or someone else comes out with something) you're better off using rooted stock with Xposed mods for now.
Regarding MOJO and Shield vs Ouya, what they aim to do is somewhat different, and I think a lot of people are looking at Ouya backwards. MOJO and Shield specifically aim to bring Android gaming to hardware that's made for gaming, and I think that's a valid market. If that's what you want, go get those. Ouya aims to make what is a hobbyist and indie console first and foremost, which just happens to use Android as a means to that end. Ouya is Ouya before it is Android, just like Android is Android before it is Linux. The system ROM and OS for most '80s hobby computers was built around BASIC, but we don't think of them primarily as machines for running BASIC. We think of them as a Sinclair, or a Commodore 64, or an MSX machine.
So i got my brand new ouya today at 9am, i quickly went home plugged it in and the first thing that happened was an error, the console wasn’t displaying on my TV, after i shut it off, it quickly started OUYA, and so did the setup, after a few minutes updating the software, the console started successfully and i stated to dig around, i didn’t give the store one glance, and started installing other apps, the first thing i wanted was Google play, failed, then a good launcher, fail even sharing something through blue-tooth, fail, it surprised me the slap this company gave Google, really it doesn’t have anything Google at all, no account, search, nothing, i was appalled, if i were Google i would be calling some people, i understand the whole gaming console but come on, its 2013 and if your device doesn’t do everything but serve as a skateboard, it isnt worth your money, and for $106.00 bucks with taxes is understandable but why limit the ability to make the console your own, after all i bought it, i would like to see a good tablet interface, with the option of an ouya store not a launcher, heck even keep the same Google play and have the compatible applications run in the damn device, why are you shutting the creator from its creation, you’re only a surgeon making changes to something so wonderful, making it cripple, this is the advice of a gamer, a tech freak and a consumer.
this is for you Julie Uhrma, and your team make it right
Sounds more like an Ouya Meh rather than Nightmare.
Seems absurd, but once the good people in the dev section get CM10.1 on it, it'll be more useful.
treborbula1 said:
So i got my brand new ouya today at 9am, i quickly went home plugged it in and the first thing that happened was an error, the console wasn’t displaying on my TV, after i shut it off, it quickly started OUYA, and so did the setup, after a few minutes updating the software, the console started successfully and i stated to dig around, i didn’t give the store one glance, and started installing other apps, the first thing i wanted was Google play, failed, then a good launcher, fail even sharing something through blue-tooth, fail, it surprised me the slap this company gave Google, really it doesn’t have anything Google at all, no account, search, nothing, i was appalled, if i were Google i would be calling some people, i understand the whole gaming console but come on, its 2013 and if your device doesn’t do everything but serve as a skateboard, it isnt worth your money, and for $106.00 bucks with taxes is understandable but why limit the ability to make the console your own, after all i bought it, i would like to see a good tablet interface, with the option of an ouya store not a launcher, heck even keep the same Google play and have the compatible applications run in the damn device, why are you shutting the creator from its creation, you’re only a surgeon making changes to something so wonderful, making it cripple, this is the advice of a gamer, a tech freak and a consumer.
this is for you Julie Uhrma, and your team make it right
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Click to collapse
Sounds like you didn't research the console at all. I'm with you, but in a different way. I pre-ordered knowing it was a closed garden, but they told me I had the keys to the gate, "open and hackable". It's not any more open and/or hackable than a kindle fire. There isn't even a way to boot into recovery. I just ordered it to install CM10 and use it for media, but that doesn't look promising. I just called Chase and canceled my purchase. Was supposed to get it in April and I still haven't heard a word from them. For now, I'm done with Ouya and I'll enjoy my PS4. Perhaps they can change my mind with the Ouya 2, but for now I'm just praying Google will launch a TV box coupled with a controller.
treborbula1 said:
So i got my brand new ouya today at 9am, i quickly went home plugged it in and the first thing that happened was an error, the console wasn’t displaying on my TV, after i shut it off, it quickly started OUYA, and so did the setup, after a few minutes updating the software, the console started successfully and i stated to dig around, i didn’t give the store one glance, and started installing other apps, the first thing i wanted was Google play, failed, then a good launcher, fail even sharing something through blue-tooth, fail, it surprised me the slap this company gave Google, really it doesn’t have anything Google at all, no account, search, nothing, i was appalled, if i were Google i would be calling some people,
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why would google care? You do realize the OUYA has NOTHING to do with google, right? It is based on Android, but so is a lot of other things that you probably don't even realize. You wanted a Google TV but you got a video game console, your fault not OUYA or Androids. This is not a google product, it is not a tablet or phone sponsored by google, and all the google parts are not there. Now if they were using google infrastructure and google didn't know about it THEN google might have something to say, like on many of the cheaper non-official tablets, but this has NOTHING to do with Google. It's BASED on android. Android and Google are not the same!
i understand the whole gaming console but come on, its 2013 and if your device doesn’t do everything but serve as a skateboard, it isnt worth your money, and for $106.00 bucks with taxes is understandable but why limit the ability to make the console your own, after all i bought it, i would like to see a good tablet interface, with the option of an ouya store not a launcher, heck even keep the same Google play and have the compatible applications run in the damn device, why are you shutting the creator from its creation, you’re only a surgeon making changes to something so wonderful, making it cripple, this is the advice of a gamer, a tech freak and a consumer.
this is for you Julie Uhrma, and your team make it right
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What part of the OUYA doesn't do everything? You can sideload many many MANY apps, you can browse the internet, you can download games, you can watch videos, play music, stream content, and more. It actually has more (even if different) features than an Xbox 360 or PS3! Do you expect your Xbox One or Playstation 3 to sign into Google and have your whole Android content on it? That's the same thing as expecting that with the OUYA.
A tablet interface would work HORRIBLY with the OUYA, so I'm not even going to touch on why you would want that.
And again, by saying that they're shutting the creator from its creation, you obviously don't understand what Android is. I'll just leave it at that.
i did not create this post so that pessimistic people would bash me, but so that optimistic people would join and build something better, really a tablet interface would suck... how so?t would be the things they mention same thing as an aosp roms only on the ouya, or did you forget about a kindle fire with and android makeover, so please dont tell me itll be stupid, or preposterous to fathom the thought of something being what has been stripped off, i even saw a rom adding some things ouya removed, so im not the only one, yes i knew it was an android console but what was hidden from us, and i say hidden because one of the the things they mentions on the site, videos, etc... is hack-ability, and once you add apps to the system it starts to freeze, it gets weird noises, the graphics are not in the resolution its supposed to be, the consoles resolution is 1920x1080 but it has the ratio of a cell phone, im not asking anyone to agree with me, if you dont like the idea dont give your opinion just look away, if you do i welcome you to join and comment:good:
From what I understand in order to have Google Play on a device, Google requires that it be the primary (possibly only) marketplace on the device. Considering that Ouya's plan to make their money off of their market, putting Play on there as the primary would pretty much kill any chance of them being a profitable (or not closed) company. That aside, very few of the apps on the Play store are ioptimized for controllers and they have , for now, no method by which t sort and find those apps. Fow now if you really want something from the play store either install it on another device and copy it over to the Ouya or download the apk from another source. Chances are someone will create a GAPPs package for the ouya eventually anyway.
I've had mine for a while and it's not too difficult to get apps you want but no where on the box do they advertise Google Apps or Google Play store, you didn't do any research on the product. If you noticed anything from the website, they have games specifically made for Ouya, Google Play doesn't support this kind of filtering, at least not to a great extent. Secondly, most apps from Google Play, will NOT work. They weren't made for the console, it lacks the google framework(big reason why you can't get google play, its not stable enough) and most apps are touch interface, not controller/keyboard input. Plus all the major uses of the ouya (emulators, video playback and streaming) can already be done without google play. The streaming is the only one thats a bit of a hassle atm due to touch interface menus.
I think Google requires licensing fees to include their apps. Hence why Custom roms require a separate install of GAPPS. This is a CLOSED system specifically so that developers HAVE to make their games work for the OUYA and not just release some tablet app with half-ass support and functionality. This is understandable and in the best interest of all parties.
As far as the console (closed-garden/keys), you can side load apps all you want. So while some apps may not have official support, you can still install and run them.
But the OUYA does NOT have GAPPS installed thus no Google Account or Google Apps as of right now. If you were looking for a Tablet Inferface, you should have picked up one of the many Android TV Sticks such as the MK808 or better. These have a straight Android tablet interface with Google Play. But they lack any manufacturer support and don't come with any controllers. If you can get a controller to work, you will be limited to 1 (in my experience). They are fun but are cheap chinese build quality. I can't speak for the OUYA but it appears they put some good effort into the OUYA and coupled with a pretty neat controller, I think the Price is really a good buy. Android TV sticks have more of a traditional android environment that you may be looking after.
Really?
JLCollier2005 said:
Why would google care? You do realize the OUYA has NOTHING to do with google, right? It is based on Android, but so is a lot of other things that you probably don't even realize. You wanted a Google TV but you got a video game console, your fault not OUYA or Androids. This is not a google product, it is not a tablet or phone sponsored by google, and all the google parts are not there. Now if they were using google infrastructure and google didn't know about it THEN google might have something to say, like on many of the cheaper non-official tablets, but this has NOTHING to do with Google. It's BASED on android. Android and Google are not the same!
What part of the OUYA doesn't do everything? You can sideload many many MANY apps, you can browse the internet, you can download games, you can watch videos, play music, stream content, and more. It actually has more (even if different) features than an Xbox 360 or PS3! Do you expect your Xbox One or Playstation 3 to sign into Google and have your whole Android content on it? That's the same thing as expecting that with the OUYA.
A tablet interface would work HORRIBLY with the OUYA, so I'm not even going to touch on why you would want that.
And again, by saying that they're shutting the creator from its creation, you obviously don't understand what Android is. I'll just leave it at that.
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Why are you defending the Ouya. It seriously doesn't do a lot. Yes you can sideload many apps but not a lot. any that need a verification with google play can't be sideloaded. Heck google play hasn't even been properly sideloaded. Honestly i'm not happy with the ouya i bought. Unless idk how, there isnt even a way to do a full reset on this thing. SU isnt even correct. it sucks.
OreBoySwaggin said:
SU isnt even correct. it sucks.
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How is 'su' not even correct? It works exactly like it does in google's AOSP eng and user-debug builds. Its the same one that is on all the android emulator images. If you dont like it, it works perfectly fine to grant the shell user root and you can change it to any of the su apps you want. But don't confuse them. The su that is on ouya is the most googly-official su there is.
OreBoySwaggin said:
Why are you defending the Ouya. It seriously doesn't do a lot. Yes you can sideload many apps but not a lot. any that need a verification with google play can't be sideloaded. Heck google play hasn't even been properly sideloaded. Honestly i'm not happy with the ouya i bought. Unless idk how, there isnt even a way to do a full reset on this thing. SU isnt even correct. it sucks.
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WHy am I defending OUYA? Well, I was a EARLY backer on Kickstarter, have followed it closely since then, and even with everything they have said it has gone above and beyond the expectations I had for it. It does more than I expected already, has more games on it than I expected it to have at release, and in general works better than I expected.
I knew it wasn't going to have the PLAY store, which makes sense but that's for another topic, and every single app I've sideloaded has worked so far except for the ones that have internet DRM. ANd that makes sense because I didn't buy the app for the OUYA, I bought it for my Google related products.
A better question is why are there so many bashing it? Although the number bashing the console itself (not shipping or support) are getting to be far and few (and seem to be the minority), it makes me question what did you expect? The ONLY thing they did not deliver on was how hackable it was, and even then it seems like it's just a matter of time before they plan on unlocking it even further.
Simply put I spent $170 on this thing and am very happy with my purchase. I have had it for about a month and have used it every single day. I have an Xbox 360 and a PS3 sitting next to it that have not been touched since I got my OUYA. I have a PC full of steam games that has also not been touched.
If you don't like the console, then sell it, there are plenty of people who want one.
Why then
gianptune said:
How is 'su' not even correct? It works exactly like it does in google's AOSP eng and user-debug builds. Its the same one that is on all the android emulator images. If you dont like it, it works perfectly fine to grant the shell user root and you can change it to any of the su apps you want. But don't confuse them. The su that is on ouya is the most googly-official su there is.
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Click to collapse
If the su is "correct" on the ouya, then how come su has to be pushed and replaced when properly rooting it?
Because your 'properly' rooting is it not how root works on AOSP. You are thinking of superuser and superSU, which are 3rd party apps that must be installed in the play store, right? How can you even begin to think that something you must install manually from the store, and that even has premium/paid versions is the 'proper' way.
The AOSP 'su', the one that comes on Ouya, exists to grant the shell user root access. It has no concept of java, dalvik, the VM, or any apps that draw anything on the screen.
Bought and Ouya yesterday. Downloaded some crap off their crappy market. Played some games. Games were alright -- kinda glitchy. The screen was stretched beyond the bounds of my TV -- everything was cut off. Sideloaded some apps. Apps were junk -- really glitchy. XBMC kinda worked, but setting up network shares was a nightmare. Everything else sucks. This system blows. My Super Nintendo was better. Returning this garbage before I go crazy. They should be paying me to test their beta software.
jpsiemer said:
Bought and Ouya yesterday. Downloaded some crap off their crappy market. Played some games. Games were alright -- kinda glitchy.
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172 games available at launch is amazing. You're right some are crappy and some are glitchy, but some are excellent. The big plus is you get to try them before you purchase the game.
jpsiemer said:
The screen was stretched beyond the bounds of my TV -- everything was cut off.
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Click to collapse
I am fortunate that this ailment doesn't affect me. There is a setting that in theory should fix this for those folks affected, but I've heard it may not function yet. In the 2 weeks I've had my Ouya there have been about 4 major firmware updates and with each update things improved.
jpsiemer said:
Sideloaded some apps. Apps were junk -- really glitchy. XBMC kinda worked, but setting up network shares was a nightmare.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sideloading apps are hit and miss. I use Plex (from the Ouya store) instead of XBMC. It was a snap to setup and works great. The Amazon store was my first sideloaded app and I used it to install Dropbox, Netflix and HuluPlus and they all work as expected. I sideloaded the Veetle app and it works great as does the Twitch app (from the Ouya store). The emulators in the store work as expected too.
I'm sure there are many apps that are junk and very glitchy, but the ones I just mentioned are not among those apps.
jpsiemer said:
Everything else sucks. This system blows. My Super Nintendo was better. Returning this garbage before I go crazy. They should be paying me to test their beta software.
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Click to collapse
Since I don't experience the overscan problem you experience I can't agree with this statement. My Ouya runs Super Nintendo games great and much much more.
However , if this is your experience/opinion then you are right to return it.
Thanks for sharing.
The Ouya seems a nice enthusiast device, but not ready for mass consumers that just want Wii style plug and play. At the price point, you will see a lot of the Wii demographic, so probably a lot of subsequent complaints.
Ya that's right, it's not a plug and play console and even not as easy as a closed system like IOS...but if it's able to run games correctly because it's a game console, it's everything we ask from for this price! Free games and low ownership cost make the difference, but if people want a high end game console, with HD and 3D gaming go with Sony and Microsoft, they will enjoy getting your money
jpsiemer said:
Bought and Ouya yesterday. Downloaded some crap off their crappy market. Played some games. Games were alright -- kinda glitchy. The screen was stretched beyond the bounds of my TV -- everything was cut off. Sideloaded some apps. Apps were junk -- really glitchy. XBMC kinda worked, but setting up network shares was a nightmare. Everything else sucks. This system blows. My Super Nintendo was better. Returning this garbage before I go crazy. They should be paying me to test their beta software.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You installed the wrong xbmc, they are in the beta stage with h/w accel version, you can sideload it, libstage alpha 4 xbmc.
Secondly the emulators are great, snes9x from Robert, along with his releases of nes, genesis. Mupen64 works good on most Roms but android has had problem with n64 emulation.
Sent from my HTC Sensation using Tapatalk 2
Paulenski said:
You installed the wrong xbmc, they are in the beta stage with h/w accel version, you can sideload it, libstage alpha 4 xbmc.
Secondly the emulators are great, snes9x from Robert, along with his releases of nes, genesis. Mupen64 works good on most Roms but android has had problem with n64 emulation.
Sent from my HTC Sensation using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I installed the right XBMC. That's the version I'm using. Like I said, it works, just glitchy, just as everything else is on this console. Console emulation isn't really an amazing feat considering the hardware on this thing. My Xbox1 did everything this did and more, and it wasn't glitchy.
Sorry, but this "console" blows. I'd rather have an Android HDMI dongle from some unknown Chinese company.
jpsiemer said:
I installed the right XBMC. That's the version I'm using. Like I said, it works, just glitchy, just as everything else is on this console. Console emulation isn't really an amazing feat considering the hardware on this thing. My Xbox1 did everything this did and more, and it wasn't glitchy.
Sorry, but this "console" blows. I'd rather have an Android HDMI dongle from some unknown Chinese company.
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Click to collapse
Great! Pack it back up, return it, spend your money elsewhere, and get off the forums. Your opinion has been heard and noted.
has anyone flashed new stock based rom by DroidMote Server / Client?
https://plus.google.com/+VideomapIt/posts/WLMsgEqw7dw
digweed4me said:
has anyone flashed new stock based rom by DroidMote Server / Client?
https://plus.google.com/+VideomapIt/posts/WLMsgEqw7dw
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes it is a great rom overall but is not 4k/1080p friendly (as far as video playback is concerned in Youtube and Netflix) and you will lose leanback launcher functionality.
https://plus.google.com/+VideomapIt/posts/QiC1Pksvzaq
https://youtu.be/NMqz8e33oq8
With Android you can do all. With Android TV no. Now and forever because Android TV was invented for TV manufacturers that want a limited OS to better sell their services.
This is what I understand but I hope to be wrong.
zulu99 said:
https://plus.google.com/+VideomapIt/posts/QiC1Pksvzaq
https://youtu.be/NMqz8e33oq8
With Android you can do all. With Android TV no. Now and forever because Android TV was invented for TV manufacturers that want a limited OS to better sell their services.
This is what I understand but I hope to be wrong.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
completly wrong.
Android TV is a full Android plus new TV features (search,recommendations,background playback). It's not limited.
It's just the launcher and the store that 'filter' apps that are not specifically optimized for a TV experience (= with a remote instead of touchscreen).
Savvy people can sideload and use any apps on Android TV.
But the goal of Google and TV manufacturers isn't to provide a system for savvy users, that would be a niche market and not worth their time & money.
They want a system anyone can use, the average user. A simple to use and consistent interface from app to app, while keeping the full power of Android behind the scene. Because nothing is more confusing for the average guy than using a 'made for touchscreen' app on a TV or using apps with different 'UI behavior' , it's the best way for him to throw away the whole thing in the trashcan
TV manufacturers don't sell services anyway, they sell TV...
kgersen said:
completly wrong.
Android TV is a full Android plus new TV features (search,recommendations,background playback). It's not limited.
It's just the launcher and the store that 'filter' apps that are not specifically optimized for a TV experience (= with a remote instead of touchscreen).
Savvy people can sideload and use any apps on Android TV.
But the goal of Google and TV manufacturers isn't to provide a system for savvy users, that would be a niche market and not worth their time & money.
They want a system anyone can use, the average user. A simple to use and consistent interface from app to app, while keeping the full power of Android behind the scene. Because nothing is more confusing for the average guy than using a 'made for touchscreen' app on a TV or using apps with different 'UI behavior' , it's the best way for him to throw away the whole thing in the trashcan
TV manufacturers don't sell services anyway, they sell TV...
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Click to collapse
Is a FACT that with Android we can do all. Also specific things of Android TV. The inverse is not possible. But i'm very sorry of this
But this is not problem, the important fact is that Nvidia Shield Console have very good hardware and finally we can have a good full Android device connected to our TV.
The choice from Android TV and full Android is a reality so advanced users can have the alternative.
If it was not a question of money / forced limitations, should be more simple create a specific Launcher for TV that all can download from Google Play and specific apps more accessible with a dpad also downloadable for all from Google Play.
zulu99 said:
Is a FACT that with Android we can do all. Also specific things of Android TV. The inverse is not possible. But i'm very sorry of this
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
no
Android TV is Android + more features..
I don't get what you can do with Android that you can't do with Android TV.
Actually it's the contrary: you can do stuff with Android TV that you can't do with Android, for instance acting as a Chromecast (Google Cast Receiver) or displaying a video in the background of your launcher (home screen) from an app.
kgersen said:
no
Android TV is Android + more features..
I don't get what you can do with Android that you can't do with Android TV.
Actually it's the contrary: you can do stuff with Android TV that you can't do with Android, for instance acting as a Chromecast (Google Cast Receiver) or displaying a video in the background of your launcher (home screen) from an app.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Only one example of others million, install chrome browser and observe how it look bad at 320 dpi. Like the most negative phone of 10 years ago.
Android TV is a stripped down version of Android full of limitations.
Chromecast functionality are possible also on full Android.
Android is Android because you can install and update million of apps directly from Google Play. Android without apps is nothing. This is also the difference with Windows Phone, Ubuntu Phone and many others OS that dream the android apps ecosystem.
The actual number of Android apps in Google Play is a reality because independent developers thought that Android would have been a real open source OS, no longer thinks so after so many closures.
Apart that every single standard app is better and faster than the leanback version. Try Youtube as example to better understand. Life is too short to waste time with the directionals keys. Was already a failure on old Smart TV.
But if in the world there are people that bought an Iphone, This justifies even people who prefer Android TV
My interest is not to be right about this, i'm very happy with full Android. I'm just sharing my experience and i know Android quite well.
The thread of full Android firmware is this:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/android/development/rom-t3138575
I don't understand why for this good hardware, one of the best in the Android world, we can't have a regular forum like all others devices.
Can someone explain ? please. Just for information.
@zulu99 I have a nexus player, I'm currently running CM12.1 but even on stock there was not much I couldn't do.
There is an app to allow easy use of sideloaded apps, a keyboard/trackpad combo let's you navigate without the directional keys on everything but the lean back laucher. Only thing I wasn't able to do is get the VPN working well (had to use separate VPN app, no built in VPN). I'm not saying ATV is better then Normal Android, just that you can do almost anything with a little effort. ATV is Android, same kernel and the core is built on the same code as normal Android.
Android is still very much an open ecosystem. Yes some things are locked away, but nothing as draconian as Apple or Microsoft. Even without root a lot more is possible on a system running Android then any other comparable platform (Android wear vs WatchOS, Android vs iOS, etc). I respect that you are a developer, I just think your 100% wrong in your view on ATV.
I'll be getting the Shield soon as a gaming/streaming TV console for an upcoming multi month work trip.
zulu99 said:
Only one example of others million, install chrome browser and observe how it look bad at 320 dpi. Like the most negative phone of 10 years ago.
Android TV is a stripped down version of Android full of limitations.
Chromecast functionality are possible also on full Android.
Android is Android because you can install and update million of apps directly from Google Play. Android without apps is nothing. This is also the difference with Windows Phone, Ubuntu Phone and many others OS that dream the android apps ecosystem.
The actual number of Android apps in Google Play is a reality because independent developers thought that Android would have been a real open source OS, no longer thinks so after so many closures.
Apart that every single standard app is better and faster than the leanback version. Try Youtube as example to better understand. Life is too short to waste time with the directionals keys. Was already a failure on old Smart TV.
But if in the world there are people that bought an Iphone, This justifies even people who prefer Android TV
My interest is not to be right about this, i'm very happy with full Android. I'm just sharing my experience and i know Android quite well.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If Chrome looks bad on TV isn't because of the OS... You "know Android quite well" but you clearly don't know what is an OS and what is an app and where the 'frontier' between the two is.
You're confusing a lot of things and mixing things up.
Plz do show me Chromecasting Netflix for instance on what you call "full Android" (which I just call "Android").
I agree with Zulu. If you want locked down hardware and software, please go buy an Apple TV. And you also probably have no reason to go to XDA developers as this site is all about tweaking. Without root, what tweaking are you doing?
Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk
well said @machx1111
Leave zulu99 to his noble developing work @kgersen Some of us find this sort of stuff really useful.
I get that you don't personally find it useful but your comments seem to be borderline insulting considering the effort zulu99 has gone to. This forum really isn't the place for criticism unless it's constructive.
BenjiHansell said:
well said @machx1111
Leave zulu99 to his noble developing work @kgersen Some of us find this sort of stuff really useful.
I get that you don't personally find it useful but your comments seem to be borderline insulting considering the effort zulu99 has gone to. This forum really isn't the place for criticism unless it's constructive.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
wth are you talking about? did you even read our comments ?
I never said we mustn't root or do alternative ROM or that I want locked-down devices and software.
We're just talking about Android vs Android TV.
I just don't get why people waste their time porting CM or a 'smartphone/tablet/touch' version of Android to the Shield when it already has a full OS: Android TV and that NVidia already provides all the source and tools to build your own firmware for it: https://developer.nvidia.com/shield-open-source
I think they're just transposing what they had to do on smartphones and tablets because OEMs won't release the sources and tools to build your own firmware, to a new device just because it also run Android... They didn't bother looking up or asking NVidia...
Android TV is Android, if you don't like the 'TV' part just don't use it, go download the source code from NVidia and adapt/change what you don't want or add new features. If you prefer to use an UI made for touch on a TV that's your choice...hell you can even adapt Linux for Tegra for the Shield if you want Ubuntu instead of Android.
I'm all for tinkering and rooting but do it right, even more when the manufacturer can help you do so.
_Dennis_ said:
@zulu99 I have a nexus player, I'm currently running CM12.1 but even on stock there was not much I couldn't do.
There is an app to allow easy use of sideloaded apps, a keyboard/trackpad combo let's you navigate without the directional keys on everything but the lean back laucher. Only thing I wasn't able to do is get the VPN working well (had to use separate VPN app, no built in VPN). I'm not saying ATV is better then Normal Android, just that you can do almost anything with a little effort. ATV is Android, same kernel and the core is built on the same code as normal Android.
Android is still very much an open ecosystem. Yes some things are locked away, but nothing as draconian as Apple or Microsoft. Even without root a lot more is possible on a system running Android then any other comparable platform (Android wear vs WatchOS, Android vs iOS, etc). I respect that you are a developer, I just think your 100% wrong in your view on ATV.
I'll be getting the Shield soon as a gaming/streaming TV console for an upcoming multi month work trip.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Use Lollirock firmware on Nexus Player and no cyanogenmod if you want a regular Android firmware in which you can install all from Google Play.
I respect the classic Cyanogenmod development / firmwares, but on Nexus Player the cyanogenmod firmware is just a strange hybrid. It use many parts of Android TV. Usually Cyanogenmod add things to Android, on the nexus player it remove things from Android
Not really useful. Read posts of users to better understand.
In lollirock firmware thread in the last part there are comparisons made by users.
---------- Post added at 11:42 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:26 AM ----------
kgersen said:
wth are you talking about? did you even read our comments ?
I never said we mustn't root or do alternative ROM or that I want locked-down devices and software.
We're just talking about Android vs Android TV.
I just don't get why people waste their time porting CM or a 'smartphone/tablet/touch' version of Android to the Shield when it already has a full OS: Android TV and that NVidia already provides all the source and tools to build your own firmware for it: https://developer.nvidia.com/shield-open-source
I think they're just transposing what they had to do on smartphones and tablets because OEMs won't release the sources and tools to build your own firmware, to a new device just because it also run Android... They didn't bother looking up or asking NVidia...
Android TV is Android, if you don't like the 'TV' part just don't use it, go download the source code from NVidia and adapt/change what you don't want or add new features. If you prefer to use an UI made for touch on a TV that's your choice...hell you can even adapt Linux for Tegra for the Shield if you want Ubuntu instead of Android.
I'm all for tinkering and rooting but do it right, even more when the manufacturer can help you do so.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
About you, instead of writing things without sense, present to us your work. We will happy to test.
What are you doing for others people ?
If you like Android TV why you write here ?
Please i don't want problems with others users.
I'm already exposing myself too much.
But is necessary to demonstrate that we understand very well when things are necessary and others things are just made to protect economic interests against the fair competitive laws.
Apart all, is not most useful that you can do more things instead of be able to do just what others wants ?
Why we should remain closed in the Android TV that is a "Walled Garden". Because you don't like ?
Two things are always better than one.
p.s.
Netflix work well in full Android firmware, like google movies app and all others DRM players.
Chromecast functionality are working too.
Usually i use Chromecast functionality only if there isn't an app to do it natively inside the box. Is stupid stream with chromecast if you can have it native inside the box. But you can do all with quite all apps. also screen mirroring is possible. tested with my galaxy s6 and nexus7
All others Leanback-Only apps are working well ( 10 / 11 in total )
also xposed framework is beautiful to tweak your firmware.
When i read comments like your i'm very happy, because usually mean that the firmware works very very well
What many people not know is that in Google Plus, Facebook and also in xda forum like in others forum, users can be paid to do good reviews and support some platforms, just to make advertisement. Attention when you read.
RELY ON TESTS MADE ONLY BY YOURSELF
zulu99 said:
Use Lollirock firmware on Nexus Player and no cyanogenmod if you want a regular Android firmware in which you can install all from Google Play.
I respect the classic Cyanogenmod development / firmwares, but on Nexus Player the cyanogenmod firmware is just a strange hybrid. It use many parts of Android TV. Usually Cyanogenmod add things to Android, on the nexus player it remove things from Android
Not really useful. Read posts of users to better understand.
In lollirock firmware thread in the last part there are comparisons made by users.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm enjoying the hybrid model used on CM. I get that its not for everyone, was just using it as an example.
I am able to do almost anything I could do on my phone on the TV. Does it all work perfectly? Of course not. Many apps are designed around a multi touch screen, my TV does not have a touchscreen at all. I just don't understand why you feel Android TV is more locked down then standard android. I was able to use es explorer to side load anything I wanted. Does not mean it worked (some apps are not programmed for directional keys and rely on touch input only, so they needed a mouse. Once I got that set up I can use anything fairly well. I have Amazon prime music working great for example, and I have prime videos loaded (haven't used it yet, netflix and hulu have my attention right now). This is all doable on androidTV, can't do it on my Roku, all I can get for amazon music is the non-prime stuff.
I can only think one think of one thing ATV can't do (native VPN) and one thing stock android can't do (well haven't tried sideloading the app yet) and that's receive a chrome cast stream, or send a chrome cast from one phone to tablet or whatever. Mostly the two versions seem comparable, the differences are in the stock apps (read Launcher and play store).
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk
_Dennis_ said:
I'm enjoying the hybrid model used on CM. I get that its not for everyone, was just using it as an example.
I am able to do almost anything I could do on my phone on the TV. Does it all work perfectly? Of course not. Many apps are designed around a multi touch screen, my TV does not have a touchscreen at all. I just don't understand why you feel Android TV is more locked down then standard android. I was able to use es explorer to side load anything I wanted. Does not mean it worked (some apps are not programmed for directional keys and rely on touch input only, so they needed a mouse. Once I got that set up I can use anything fairly well. I have Amazon prime music working great for example, and I have prime videos loaded (haven't used it yet, netflix and hulu have my attention right now). This is all doable on androidTV, can't do it on my Roku, all I can get for amazon music is the non-prime stuff.
I can only think one think of one thing ATV can't do (native VPN) and one thing stock android can't do (well haven't tried sideloading the app yet) and that's receive a chrome cast stream, or send a chrome cast from one phone to tablet or whatever. Mostly the two versions seem comparable, the differences are in the stock apps (read Launcher and play store).
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
With Android we can install all apps simply from Google Play and all works better at 220 / 230 dpi. Touch-only apps are not a problem, with DroidMote i can use very well multi-touch apps and games.
You will search manually for every single apk when an update is available ? Get it from your phone, upload and reinstall. Baaaaaaaa
Good Luck
p.s.
Today i used all the day the Shield Console with full Android firmware and i can say it is Super. I installed and tested all benchmark apps, all others my preferred apps. All work super smooth and i like this hardware. I will never turn back on Android TV
zulu99 said:
With Android we can install all simply from Google Play and all works better at 220 / 230 dpi. Touch-only apps are not a problem, with DroidMote i can use very well multi-touch apps and games.
You will search manually for every single apk when an update is available ? Get it from your phone, upload and reinstall. Baaaaaaaa
Good Luck
p.s.
Today i used all the day the Shield Console with full Android firmware and i can say it is Super. I installed and tested all benchmark apps, all my preffered apps. All work super smoth and i like this hardware.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's not an issue inherent to Android TV, that is a function of the play store.
Don't get me wrong I'll probably try your ROM at some point. I make my own opinions, so I'm constantly trying new stuff.
_Dennis_ said:
That's not an issue inherent to Android TV, that is a function of the play store.
Don't get me wrong I'll probably try your ROM at some point. I make my own opinions, so I'm constantly trying new stuff.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No problems. we are here to discuss like good friends. I'm writing from Shield Console in a beautiful Chrome Browser at 220 dpi.
I like to discuss and hear the opinions of others.
I have only one big problem, my bad english. I'm Italian
zulu99 said:
No problems. we are here to discuss like good friends. I'm writing from Shield Console in a beautiful Chrome Browser at 220 dpi.
I like to discuss and hear the opinions of others.
I have only one big problem, my bad english. I'm Italian
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Its OK, I'm pretty good at understanding, my wife is Filipino and I lived in Japan for 3 years.
I may attempt to mess with some settings (I noticed a TV setting in build.prop) to see if I can get full play store use without changing much, mainly so anyone can use what ROM they want while getting access to both stores I see that as the best of both worlds.
_Dennis_ said:
I may attempt to mess with some settings (I noticed a TV setting in build.prop) to see if I can get full play store use without changing much, mainly so anyone can use what ROM they want while getting access to both stores I see that as the best of both worlds.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have a minix neo x8h+ and this box is "seen" by the play store as a leanback compatible box, but it also has access to all the android apps... so this may be a build.prop worth looking at?
I am getting an Nvidia console in a couple of weeks and would love to use leanback BUT not with the added hassle of installing and running non leanback apps.
tx Mark.