Database Users

About TMO's 4G

So today I was at the mall and I asked a TMO rep about 4G internet. I said, "How will you know if you have 4G?" The rep said "You will see a letter H". I then said, "How do you know if you're on 3G" He said, "You will also see a letter H". I got to admit that is pretty lame. So is there there 4G is basically a tweaked 3G?
Is it really TRUE 4G?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4G
marketing is all it is. but hspda+ is pretty fast.

crazifyngers said:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4G
marketing is all it is. but hspda+ is pretty fast.
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What kind of speeds are you getting on your 4G device?

Here's where it gets tricky. LTE Advanced and WiMax 2 are considered 4G (they don't even exist yet). As of yesterday, ITU (the ones who decide what "4G" is) admitted that WiMax and LTE can be called 4G. T-Mobile uses HSPA+, which is basically really fast 3G. However, even as an Evo owner (Sprint uses WiMax), I have to say I'd rather have LTE or at least HSPA+. Why? Because it's always on as long as you're in an area that has it. And on top of that, it doesn't rape your battery like WiMax does. Besides, you shouldn't by a phone based on how fast the internet is. By the phone for its features, build quality, etc. It's faster than what you already have and that's what matters. Plus, you won't be paying extra for the extra speed.
http://www.engadget.com/2010/12/18/itu-capitulates-admits-that-the-term-4g-could-apply-to-lte-w/

Product F(RED) said:
Here's where it gets tricky. LTE Advanced and WiMax 2 are considered 4G (they don't even exist yet). As of yesterday, ITU (the ones who decide what "4G" is) admitted that WiMax and LTE can be called 4G. T-Mobile uses HSPA+, which is basically really fast 3G. However, even as an Evo owner (Sprint uses WiMax), I have to say I'd rather have LTE or at least HSPA+. Why? Because it's always on as long as you're in an area that has it. And on top of that, it doesn't rape your battery like WiMax does. Besides, you shouldn't by a phone based on how fast the internet is. By the phone for its features, build quality, etc. It's faster than what you already have and that's what matters. Plus, you won't be paying extra for the extra speed.
http://www.engadget.com/2010/12/18/itu-capitulates-admits-that-the-term-4g-could-apply-to-lte-w/
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Thank you. Great run down!

well like the link says hspda+ is not 4g. none of the "4g" systems are really 4g it is all marketing. that being said on the nexus s which does not have hspda+ chip only a hspda chip here are my results. the top two are wifi results. oh and i'm in phoenix.

I don't get what all the furor is about. No one is bound by what the ITU says. At this point 4G just means "better than 3G." It's hard to fault T-Mo. They've got a network that's considerably faster than what has been normal 3G and is comparable to what Sprint calls 4G. From a business perspective there's no way they could surrender the field to Sprint just because of what the ITU and tech geeks say.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App

crazifyngers said:
well like the link says hspda+ is not 4g. none of the "4g" systems are really 4g it is all marketing. that being said on the nexus s which does not have hspda+ chip only a hspda chip here are my results. the top two are wifi results. oh and i'm in phoenix.
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Yeah, and like you said, that's without HSPA+. The highest I ever hit on WiMax was around 12 down, but then again I'm in NYC and I get full "4G" from my house (guess I'm by a WiMax access point). I'd be happy with those speeds you posted though. I do tether on occasion, but 99% of the time I don't need anything faster than that. Oh and another reason why HSPA+/LTE are better than WiMax is because LTE and HSPA+ are/are becoming global standards while WiMax is available in a few countries, though not on phones like in the US. Plus WiMax is basically longer-range Wifi which imo is pretty retarded for cellular use, especially considering the battery drain.
As for why I went to Sprint is another story. It's cheaper (or as cheap) as T-Mobile and you get free roaming on Verizon. I love GSM to death, but I'm a college student and I need to get as much as I can for as little as I can Plus the Evo's f*cking awesome, 4G or not.

I read that the consortium that manages all the standards came out yesterday and said that WiMax, advanced 3g tech(HSPA+) and LTE all classify as 4g

Yup, linked to it in my first post. They admitted they could be called 4G since we're so far off from the original requirements (1 Gbps I believe). What they described as 4G originally should really be 5 or 6G. Pretty steep requirements.

FastMhz said:
Is it really TRUE 4G?
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No.
10char

zachthemaster said:
No.
10char
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correction
YES

Now I kinda wish the Nexus S was 4G capable. ****, if it's no extra charge for extra speed. Why not?! Regardless, love the phone.

slowz3r said:
correction
YES
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Im
be
cile
LOOK

zachthemaster said:
Im
be
cile
LOOK
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did you miss the part where the international consortium that certifies the mobile broad band technology came out yesterday and said that Advanced 3G (HSPA+) LTE and Wimax are qualifying 4G tech

slowz3r said:
did you miss the part where the international consortium that certifies the mobile broad band technology came out yesterday and said that Advanced 3G (HSPA+) LTE and Wimax are qualifying 4G tech
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Link or it never happened.

zachthemaster said:
Link or it never happened.
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http://www.tmonews.com/2010/12/hspa-now-officially-4g-according-to-itu/
http://www.itu.int/net/pressoffice/press_releases/2010/48.aspx

slowz3r said:
http://www.tmonews.com/2010/12/hspa-now-officially-4g-according-to-itu/
http://www.itu.int/net/pressoffice/press_releases/2010/48.aspx
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Eh, **** man that's still sketchy, with true 4G you're supposed to get way faster speeds, but for now, touche.

zachthemaster said:
Eh, **** man that's still sketchy, with true 4G you're supposed to get way faster speeds, but for now, touche.
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1GBs as a minimum for 4th gen tech, thats extremely high, im pretty sure they where all high when they thought of that number

LTE 4G in Germany
Germany will be the first country in the EU to deploy high speed, low latency, LTE technology using the 800 MHz digital divided spectrum. Vodafone is one of the first operators to start LTE networks in Germany. The technology should allow for average speeds of 50 Mbit/sec.

Whats the difference between Atrix and Atrix 4G?

International market is getting Atrix 3G, US is getting 4G. Is there any difference? As far as I know, both versions support HSPA+.

syl0n said:
International market is getting Atrix 3G, US is getting 4G. Is there any difference? As far as I know, both versions support HSPA+.
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Largely terminology. If you mean HSPA+, then no, there's no difference. Someone has hinted that the Atrix will make it to other carriers. If it goes to Verizon, we could see a version that supports LTE. Then you'll have a difference. Until then, it's HSPA+ on various frequencies (assuming there will be a European version on a quirky frequency, and assuming it hits TMo).
Sent from my Sexy Nexy, courtesy of the fine developers of Tapatalk

There is no difference at all. In Europe they don't call HSPA+ 4G, so it's not called a 4G phone there.

It's kind of weird, it's probably because of some more restrictive laws outside the US where you can't call a cat a tiger (after all, HSPA+ is NOT 4G). Otherwise, they would surely market it the same way in Canada and Europe.

PuerkitoBio said:
It's kind of weird, it's probably because of some more restrictive laws outside the US where you can't call a cat a tiger (after all, HSPA+ is NOT 4G). Otherwise, they would surely market it the same way in Canada and Europe.
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The idea of US carriers calling HSPA+ 4G is that it is delivering 4G speeds using upgraded 3G technology. 14.4Mbps HSPA+ with AT&T is nearly on par with the LTE speeds we will see on Verizon initially. T-Mobile is cranking their HSPA+ up to 42Mbps or something similar. It will be some time before carriers can really flex LTE muscle, but for now there really won't be that huge of a speed difference, so all these carriers calling their data tech 4G is just marketing.
Besides, LTE is NOT 4G either by definition. LTE is more of a 3.5G technology, similar to HSPA+, but the cool thing with LTE is that over time it can be upgraded to approximately 300Mbps theoretical download speed, while HSPA+ can only be upgraded to approximately 84Mbps download speed.
LTE Advanced will be the first technically compliant 4G technology on the market, but we are still years off from seeing that in the real world.
So take everything you see about 4G as a grain of salt. Atrix 4G vs Atrix is just marketing lingo.
And when people want to say that the Droid Bionic is a real 4G device would technically be incorrect. So don't think your Atrix is in any way inferior to the Bionic (except maybe camera and screen size).

PuerkitoBio said:
It's kind of weird, it's probably because of some more restrictive laws outside the US where you can't call a cat a tiger (after all, HSPA+ is NOT 4G).
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It is now. Standards folks changed their minds, and as of last month or so current WiMax, current LTE, and HSPA+ are all 4G.

when i talked with my rep basically he said they were dropping the 4g just to make things easier. The phone is the same, just some people are still using the superfluous 4g tag.

Does this mean that we can buy a sim-free Atrix 4g from at&t, bring it to europe and use it with european sim cards?or any other gsm sim-cards around the world?

Po0yAn said:
Does this mean that we can buy a sim-free Atrix 4g from at&t, bring it to europe and use it with european sim cards?or any other gsm sim-cards around the world?
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I'd really like to know that as well. Besides this the only thing preventing me from ordering an unlocked version as soon as such is available is the bootloader thing.

A_Kirsh said:
I'd really like to know that as well. Besides this the only thing preventing me from ordering an unlocked version as soon as such is available is the bootloader thing.
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same here.thats why im considering galaxy s2 now. i have both moto milestone and galaxy s,the build quality of moto is way better.also my friends like the milestone build and look more,but the locked up bootloader really frustrated me.although there aren't much of great custom roms for galaxy s either,we haven't had a decent cyanogenmod rom around yet, after 8 month since galaxy s been released.
i like atrix more because of better build,higher resolution and tegra 2,but the damn bootloader and later release date along with slightly better specs for s2 like shipping with 2.3 and better camera is changing my desire.
not to mention that this time moto is using PenTile for it LCD and sami is using stripe matrix for its samoled+. thats another let down for atrix.
it was stupid from moto to change the lcd tech on atrix, stripe matrix looked great on milestone.
u can see the differences here:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/4165/the-motorola-atrix-4g-preview/4
you can see im pretty confused here!if only the damn nexus s was shipped with a daul core cpu!

LockeCPM4 said:
The idea of US carriers calling HSPA+ 4G is that it is delivering 4G speeds using upgraded 3G technology. 14.4Mbps HSPA+ with AT&T is nearly on par with the LTE speeds we will see on Verizon initially. T-Mobile is cranking their HSPA+ up to 42Mbps or something similar. It will be some time before carriers can really flex LTE muscle, but for now there really won't be that huge of a speed difference, so all these carriers calling their data tech 4G is just marketing.
Besides, LTE is NOT 4G either by definition. LTE is more of a 3.5G technology, similar to HSPA+, but the cool thing with LTE is that over time it can be upgraded to approximately 300Mbps theoretical download speed, while HSPA+ can only be upgraded to approximately 84Mbps download speed.
LTE Advanced will be the first technically compliant 4G technology on the market, but we are still years off from seeing that in the real world.
So take everything you see about 4G as a grain of salt. Atrix 4G vs Atrix is just marketing lingo.
And when people want to say that the Droid Bionic is a real 4G device would technically be incorrect. So don't think your Atrix is in any way inferior to the Bionic (except maybe camera and screen size).
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Just thought I'd correct you. Tmobile has claimed they can reach speeds of up to 672mbps with their HSPA+ tech. Honestly with speeds like that is there any real need for LTE?
"Now we're seeing a chart of T-Mobile's 4G evolution on the HSPA+ technology path, starting with 21Mbps in 2010. We're seeing 28, 42, 84, 168, and 672Mbps bars here as we move through dual-carrier, MIMO, and so on."
http://www.engadget.com/2011/01/06/live-from-t-mobiles-ces-2011-press-event/

svengalis said:
"Now we're seeing a chart of T-Mobile's 4G evolution on the HSPA+ technology path, starting with 21Mbps in 2010. We're seeing 28, 42, 84, 168, and 672Mbps bars here as we move through dual-carrier, MIMO, and so on."
http://www.engadget.com/2011/01/06/live-from-t-mobiles-ces-2011-press-event/
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This is basically LTE. They will be switching to it eventually, and these technologies is what makes up most of it.
Just to make sure everyone's aware. Without a huge picocell/femtocell underlay, you will never see anything over 6-12 meg on an LTE network.

The difference between atrix 4g and atrix for europe could be regarding frequencies: 4g shold be 3g on frequencies 850/1900/2100 while european version 850/900/1900/2100. This should be not a problem because almost in all europe 3g works on 2100 Mhz frequency. What do you think about it?

mercuryzzz said:
The difference between atrix 4g and atrix for europe could be regarding frequencies: 4g shold be 3g on frequencies 850/1900/2100 while european version 850/900/1900/2100. This should be not a problem because almost in all europe 3g works on 2100 Mhz frequency. What do you think about it?
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Since most 3G GSM operates in the 2100MHZ area nowadays, I don't this this is too much of a problem (if I'm wrong could someone please correct me?)
I'm now curious as to what exactly is the unlock procedure (sim-wise) of an att Atrix... Can anyone please explain (in detail) ?

4g

Hey guys just a question. I know rooting the Dell streak can get you on the hsdpa(or something like that) network but is that the 4G speed? If not is there a way right now to get 4G on the streak?

http://www.engadget.com/2011/01/17/2g-3g-4g-and-everything-in-between-an-engadget-wireless-prim/
with that in mind, what do you define as 4g? if you are referring to hspa+ or lte, im not sure, but if you are referring to the actual definition of 4g then i doubt it, but we have to wait for it to be invented first

rptw said:
http://www.engadget.com/2011/01/17/2g-3g-4g-and-everything-in-between-an-engadget-wireless-prim/
with that in mind, what do you define as 4g? if you are referring to hspa+ or lte, im not sure, but if you are referring to the actual definition of 4g then i doubt it, but we have to wait for it to be invented first
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I was wondering when someone would do a write up of all that. I have yet to try AT&T's new 4G but I'm sure it's as fast as my rooted HTC Aria's HSPA+

You will not get 4g with the streak just 3.5g.
Sent from the Almighty Streak 1.7.0

4G is only the nick name of hspa, which already support hsdpa up to 10Mbps or more and also HSUPA up to 5.76Mbps. All those are 3G TECHNOLOGY as increasing slightly. All.the 3.5G and 4G are 3G tech which develope faster and faster.
3G comes with max speed 384kbps.
and then 3.5 come with HSDPA up to 7Mbps
then 4G comes with HSDPA upto 14Mbps and HSUPA 5.76Mbps
but truely no cellphone providr gave u that max speed as the costumers are sharing bandwidth.
To acces 4G u dont need dell.streak, u can use nokia 5800 which already support up to 4.6Mbps.
Its really depends on your device which is support hsdpa and hsupa , and also depends on your networks provider how fast they can give u. I believe that if u are inside the elevator u will have only gprs or even worst with no signal or sos symbol.
CMIIW ( correct me if im wrong )

I was actually wondering about this as well as AT&T is now advertising 4G "using our existing HSPA network" and after installing StreakDroid I'm seeing the H up top instead of a 3G. That said my speed is typically 2mbps - 3mbps which is somewhere around the 3.5 range mentioned above. Still much faster than I had on my iPhone (and sometimes faster than DSL when the network is having issues.)

I don't really care about this at all. I was just curious. Since it was out on the market now. Hopefully see you all soon on the STREAK side of life

AkumaMax said:
I don't really care about this at all. I was just curious. Since it was out on the market now. Hopefully see you all soon on the STREAK side of life
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The dell streak will never run on 4G speeds. The streak was not built to handle 4G. Sorry to break it to you.

Heck, I'd like it if at&t could at least offer 3g speeds.. I never even see 2m let alone 7s.. :-/

HTC EVO WiMAX ISW11H

Here is an interesting little bit of news for those in Japan.
http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/nb20110301a4.html
Looks like there will be an HTC EVO 4G clone for Japan under the au group.
With a maximum download speed of 40 Mbps and upload speed of 10 Mbps, the WiMAX network is several times faster than the mainstream 3G network. Currently, au's 3G network speed is 9.2 Mbps for downloading and 5.5 Mbps for uploading.
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That's some crazy speed.
Too bad no news of updates.

Yea. From what I understand 3G speeds can be so much faster than what we have here in the states. The fastest speed test on 3g for me was 2.5ish. But we could get more speed on 3g. But why would they give it to us? We gotta buy 4g phones to make them money.
Sent from my iPhone with the bigger Gee Bees.

I think It's also easier to provide incredible 3G speed to Japan than the US because of the size of the country.

BlackDave said:
I think It's also easier to provide incredible 3G speed to Japan than the US because of the size of the country.
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Also, their mobile, internet, and technology infrastructure is much better than ours. Take TV for example. Japan did away with analog TV years ago, and the US just got it done last year. Rather than limp along on older technology, they get ready for the future.

i am just going to leave this here...
http://viewstonews.com/index.php/sega-introduces-urine-controlled-video-game-in-japan/technology

ya thats about what i pull on 4g lol

this was so uncool and unnecessary

Nexus One Performs Like 4G

I did a test with my nexus one and G2, I don't know how but my Nexus still out performed my G2 Am I Glad To Be An Owner Of A Nexus1
Nexus One:
DL-4.46
UL-0.99
G2
DL-3.74
UL-1.37
Sent from my Nexus One using XDA App

I live in a suburb of Boston and have great HSPA+ service. My N1 is getting on average during peak hours 4.2 DL and a constant 1.3 UL. I am very happy with those numbers. T-Mobile has a solid Network and blows away AT&T, Sprint and Verizon in my area. I live only 10 miles out of Boston and one mile away from RT 128. Suppose to be strong areas for all the Carriers.
Thank You T-Mobile.

Confused
If the T-mobile or Att network your using has an average of 7.2mbps or less, wont the Nexus One get the exact same download speed as any HSPA+ phone?
The only time an HSPA+ phone would ever "outpace" the N1 in download speed would be if the network is built up past 7.2mbps right? Like if the average speed was 10mbps THEN the HSPA+ would finally kick in but until 7.2mbps the Nexus One will keep up with any HSPA+ phone right?

I didn't know the G2 was LTE enabled
HSDPA+ is 3G btw.

I don't know, my thoughts were G2: better phone, better performance. LOL (Simpled Minded) Huh? It doesn't make sense to buy a 4G phone then! Forget 4G
Sent from my Nexus One using XDA App

LOL at thinking those measly speeds are 4G!
4G speeds are more like 30MB/s down and 15MB/s up.
Look at some of the Verizon LTE (a TRUE 4G network) speed tests.

GldRush98 said:
LOL at thinking those measly speeds are 4G!
4G speeds are more like 30MB/s down and 15MB/s up.
Look at some of the Verizon LTE (a TRUE 4G network) speed tests.
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Well even Verizon's LTE network is still around 7-12 Mbit, not MB/sec... and no where near true "4G."
The ITU's newest standard now allows "evolved 3G technologies" such as HSPA+ to eventually qualify for "4G" nomenclature, but this is still quite some time from now, given that it's roughly 1/10 of the required speed for mobile applications. What's funny, though, is that T-Mobile's HSPA+ is generally faster than Sprint's WiMAX in many areas, despite the fact that under the old classification system WiMAX could eventually become 4G whereas HSPA+ could not.
IMT-Advanced basically became what the old "4G" classification was, including the 100 Mbit mobile and 1 Gbit fixed speed requirements, as well as goodies like VoIP and OFDMA.

Wow Professor Will, So All This Hype About 4G is probably for months or even years to come! I'm not buying another supposedly 4G Phone until its like an guarantee that I see a huge difference in speed!
Sent from my Nexus One using XDA App

wtharden said:
Wow Professor Will, So All This Hype About 4G is probably for months or even years to come! I'm not buying another supposedly 4G Phone until its like an guarantee that I see a huge difference in speed!
Sent from my Nexus One using XDA App
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yeah pretty much, i thought it was common knowledge for all of us phone geeks. tmobile's 4g is nothing but 3G HSPA. and unless the towers have enough backhaul to support fast speeds, a 3G phone will perform like a 4G phone until the theoretical limits for each are hit. havent seen that happen anywhere yet in the USA that i can tell. its all gimmic marketing crap.

RogerPodacter said:
yeah pretty much, i thought it was common knowledge for all of us phone geeks. tmobile's 4g is nothing but 3G HSPA. and unless the towers have enough backhaul to support fast speeds, a 3G phone will perform like a 4G phone until the theoretical limits for each are hit. havent seen that happen anywhere yet in the USA that i can tell. its all gimmic marketing crap.
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Call it what you want, I'm very happy with T-Mobile. In my area they are faster then all others. They have the best plans and prices blow all others away. I think if more people gave them a chance they would be very happy. Not to mention they support the Nexus One.

vinnyjr said:
Call it what you want, I'm very happy with T-Mobile. In my area they are faster then all others. They have the best plans and prices blow all others away. I think if more people gave them a chance they would be very happy. Not to mention they support the Nexus One.
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+1 Also, very satisfied with TMobile in my area!

galaxys said:
+1 Also, very satisfied with TMobile in my area!
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+2 dittos.

vinnyjr said:
Call it what you want, I'm very happy with T-Mobile. In my area they are faster then all others. They have the best plans and prices blow all others away. I think if more people gave them a chance they would be very happy. Not to mention they support the Nexus One.
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I'm very impressed with t-mobile and give them all the credit in the world for what they've done with their data speeds. ATT is a joke when it comes to being a leader like that. They do nothing but follow the other carriers and react rather than set the standard. But I'm sad t-mobile started this fake 4g thing.

Extremely satisfied with my Nexus One on TMO. I'm roughly 20 miles north west from northeastern Philly and just like the other users have said T-Mobile has the best coverage in my area compared to Verizon and AT&T. My work phone is a Blackberry Tour running on Verizon's network and the network coverage blows compared to T-Mobile's in my area.
Sent from my Nexus One using XDA Premium App

Rogers in canada is crazy fast... It seems my upload is capped at 1mbit up but download speeds have gotten upwards of 4 even 5 mbit down!
Sent from my Google Phone