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I am an airline pilot and noticed a bug with my HD. It seems that after putting the phone in Flight Mode, it is not turning off the "radio" every time. During flight I clip my holster/phone fairly close to where my aviation headset cord is routed so I know immediately if my phone is not turned off as I can hear the GPRS data transfer clicking through the headset.
I have tried "Flight Mode" and "Phone Off" but it only works some of the time. Amazingly, the screen shows an X for the radio and an X for my Edge connection but there is no question that the radio is still on. The radio is only turning off about 30% of the time from what I can tell. On one occasion, after putting it in flight mode and seeing the X's, I was able to place a call (although again, not every time)
Another good indicator that this is happening is when I turn the radio back on (turn flight mode off) the signal indicator pops up almost immediately. Normally after turning the radio on it takes about 10-15 seconds to connect to the system so I believe it never disconnected to begin with.
Thankfully, the new full power-down method of holding the power switch in is coming in handy until I can figure this out. I will experiment a little more on my next trip.
Kind of funny when the Captain is not complying with the Flight Attendants instructions to turn of those damn cell phones!!
Any one else notice this?
Regards,
Gordo
jetjockgordo said:
I am an airline pilot and noticed a bug with my HD. It seems that after putting the phone in Flight Mode, it is not turning off the "radio" every time. During flight I clip my holster/phone fairly close to where my aviation headset cord is routed so I know immediately if my phone is not turned off as I can hear the GPRS data transfer clicking through the headset.
I have tried "Flight Mode" and "Phone Off" but it only works some of the time. Amazingly, the screen shows an X for the radio and an X for my Edge connection but there is no question that the radio is still on. The radio is only turning off about 30% of the time from what I can tell. On one occasion, after putting it in flight mode and seeing the X's, I was able to place a call (although again, not every time)
Another good indicator that this is happening is when I turn the radio back on (turn flight mode off) the signal indicator pops up almost immediately. Normally after turning the radio on it takes about 10-15 seconds to connect to the system so I believe it never disconnected to begin with.
Thankfully, the new full power-down method of holding the power switch in is coming in handy until I can figure this out. I will experiment a little more on my next trip.
Kind of funny when the Captain is not complying with the Flight Attendants instructions to turn of those damn cell phones!!
Any one else notice this?
Regards,
Gordo
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Is it really necessary to turn off mobile phone these days? I might have mistaken, but recall reading somewhere that some airlines are going to permit the use of mobile phone as they don't really affect safety. True or false? Or it is just rumours?
Not in USA
eaglesteve said:
Is it really necessary to turn off mobile phone these days? I might have mistaken, but recall reading somewhere that some airlines are going to permit the use of mobile phone as they don't really affect safety. True or false? Or it is just rumours?
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Click to collapse
The USA has made it clear that it will not approve the use of cell phones in flight because not enough in known about what potential problems may exist if allowed to do so. In Europe, some countries have approved a "Pico Cell" system that places a cell repeater, or effectively a cell tower, on the aircraft so cell phones using the system will throttle to their lowest setting. Since all new cell phones can adjust their power/signal output in response to their proximity to a cell site, airborne phones attempting to communicate with ground towers pose the greatest threat to aircraft systems. There has even been some discussion of putting a Pico Cell on aircraft to throttle back phones that have been left on inadvertently just to lessen the chance of interference.
I will admit that my phone can impede my ability to hear the air traffic controllers if my phone is on and I can also tell if a controller has their phone near their headset jack. It is not uncommon to hear the telltale clicking of a GSM phone receiving a call or pinging a cell tower while talking to someone on the aircraft radio.
As I fly a rather advanced commercial jet, I have seen a noticeable increase in system "anomalies" over the years (most just nuisance stuff, not dangerous!) but the big question begs: Do you REALLY want to take a chance? I am an advanced techno geek and licensed aircraft mechanic and I am the first to make sure my phone is off.
For Flight Attendants it has become a nightmare of electronic gadgets on every flight and they are just complying with regulations when bugging passengers. Their concern is someone from the FAA might be on board and may notice that they are not enforcing the regulation and get violated. My worry is something eventually may happen that can be attributed to the use of PED's (Portable Electronic Devices) causing a ban on carrying PEDs as a shotgun method to make sure it is turned off.
Regards,
Gordo
dang! i had a similar experience today while we were preparing for takeoff. i put the HD in flight mode, put the phone in my shirt pocket, somehow dialed voicemail and i could hear the voice prompts. fortunately, we hadn't taken off yet so i just powered off the phone. i don't know if it was delayed going into airplane mode or not. an hour into the flight i turned the HD on and had no issues with it in flight mode.
Thanks for your very detailed explanation. Appreciate it.
Does it not also pose danger if we just change the setting to flight mode then? Or is it just the GSM portion that is giving the interference?
So, as long as it is in flight mode, we can safely use the "non-phone" features such as game, word procesing, dictionary, etc, right?
I had always wanted to know, because in the past, I had received different information from the flight attendants. Some of them would want me to stop using my PDA all together, while some did not seem to be bothered.
Glad to have two commercial pilots here to give us authoritative information.
Another question that I have is, if an HD with flight mode on does not completely disable the GSM signal as it should, would the interference be significant enough since we're so far from the cockpit?
If the interference of a passenger HD with flight mode on is still emitting significant interference despite the distance from the cockpit, then I think we have an issue that must be brought to HTC's attention. If this is the only handset with this problem, should that require a recall by HTC???!!
Gordo, have you tried getting one of your flight attendence to bring your HD with flight mode on to the passenger cabin and see if the interference is still there?
Whatever is the FAA and JAA tolerance - it looks a real bug. I am a private pilot and constantly kept on the GSM as an additional security in case the aircraft radio or headset would go bad - to call the tower. the tickling of the GSM on the headset is a bit annoying, but since we fly at much lower altitudes than commercial aircrafts we are probably within the field of the GSM cells and switching between them at more reasonable rate.
Indeed, I also noticed that newer TAA (technologically advanced aircrafts), like the diamond da40 with G1000 Garmin glass cockpits, explicitly say in the AFM (aircraft flight manual) to switch off GSM or electronic devices since they COULD interfere with the on-board electronics. Notice that here we are speaking of few GSMs phones, not hundreds like in the case of Gordo which is definitely frightening: in a 747 you could have 1.6 kW of GSM radio emission!!! it could almost heat up the aluminum skin of the fuselage
Let me try to play with the registry and check how to do it. I cannot believe it is hardware related...
eaglesteve said:
Does it not also pose danger if we just change the setting to flight mode then? Or is it just the GSM portion that is giving the interference?
So, as long as it is in flight mode, we can safely use the "non-phone" features such as game, word procesing, dictionary, etc, right?
Another question that I have is, if an HD with flight mode on does not completely disable the GSM signal as it should, would the interference be significant enough since we're so far from the cockpit?
Gordo, have you tried getting one of your flight attendence to bring your HD with flight mode on to the passenger cabin and see if the interference is still there?
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Click to collapse
The HD is not unique with regard to possible interference and my earlier description of interference from my phone (or my co-pilots phone) is noticeable only within a few feet of my aviation headset.
Use of the PED with the cell phone off (PDA part on) is considered safe during cruise flight. They ask that ALL electronic devices be turned off (including electronic noise canceling headphones eg: Bose) while operating in close proximity to the ground since takeoff and landing is classified as a "critical phase of flight". Heck, we are not even allowed to "chit-chat" on the flight deck until above 10,000 feet because of the importance of being vigilant on the task at hand.
The greatest concern from passenger phones is their proximity to navigational and communication antennas on the top and bottom of the aircraft and the proximity to the Avionics Bay (big room of system computers, navigation radios, communication radios). Each aircraft is configured differently and even though each system/computer is shielded from EMF and even EMP, the big issue is at what point can PED's break through those defenses?
As for my HD, I am just trying to understand why it looks like the radio and GPRS is off but, in fact, it remains on in many instances. I have only had my HD on one 4 day trip and noticed the problem on the last couple of flights so I intend to do more testing to find the best way to reproduce the anomaly. I might just bring my sons TMobile phone with me and place calls to the HD to find out if I can hear the interference in my headset while safely at the gate.
I am passing this on so you won't get an angry tongue lashing from an FA when your phone starts ringing during the takeoff roll after you though it was off!
I have to pass this story on also. In the early 90's (way before PED's and cell phones) I was operating a flight from Atlanta to Cincinnati and at cruise flight a very loud buzzing was heard from our radios. My co-pilot and I tried everything to establish communication with controllers but we could hear nothing through the loud buzz. After several minutes of trying different radios and frequencies, I called the lead Flight Attendant to walk through the cabin and see if anyone was using some kind of electronic device. A minute later the buzzing stopped and the FA called to say the only thing she found was a passenger using a 1960's vintage electric shaver in the aft lavatory. Turns out this old shaver had a brush type motor that emitted so much EMI that it rendered our radios useless! Of course, I submitted a safety report to our union over that.
Gordo
Thanks for your response and posts gentlemen. I find the information fascinating.
I'm also relieved that other than during take off and landing, we can still use our beloved HD, provided we set it to flight mode.
I will be sure to turn off my HD completely until HTC releases a fix.
And thank you for answering the off topic questions! I have always wondered how cell phones could be so critical to the plane's operation. I have especially wondered how it is OK to have PED's turned on during the flight, but not during take off and landing - thank you for clearing this up.
Oh, another question from one who has played some Flight Simulator a few years back. Sorry if it's a stupid one. When do you use VFR, and when do you use IFR? Is it, for instance, the way that you mainly use VFR as the rule of the thumb, and IFR is only used when needed (or vice versa)?
If HD is not unique in this regard, I doubt there will be a fix. After all, HTC could argue that we're supposed to turn them completely off during take off and landing anyway. Not sure if there is a need to completely turn them off mid air, but from I'm hearing, there is no need to go to that extreme. I supposed it would be preferable to do so, but I think airlines would not impose any unnecessary rules on the passenger from marketing viewpoint.
Would the professionals please correct me if I'm wrong, thanks.
pzucchel said:
Whatever is the FAA and JAA tolerance - it looks a real bug. I am a private pilot and constantly kept on the GSM as an additional security in case the aircraft radio or headset would go bad - to call the tower. the tickling of the GSM on the headset is a bit annoying, but since we fly at much lower altitudes than commercial aircrafts we are probably within the field of the GSM cells and switching between them at more reasonable rate.
Indeed, I also noticed that newer TAA (technologically advanced aircrafts), like the diamond da40 with G1000 Garmin glass cockpits, explicitly say in the AFM (aircraft flight manual) to switch off GSM or electronic devices since they COULD interfere with the on-board electronics. Notice that here we are speaking of few GSMs phones, not hundreds like in the case of Gordo which is definitely frightening: in a 747 you could have 1.6 kW of GSM radio emission!!! it could almost heat up the aluminum skin of the fuselage
Let me try to play with the registry and check how to do it. I cannot believe it is hardware related...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hmmm, this is an interesting discovery. I wonder if it will switch off by toggling the "phone" radio button in the Connection Manager?
Peppep said:
Oh, another question from one who has played some Flight Simulator a few years back. Sorry if it's a stupid one. When do you use VFR, and when do you use IFR? Is it, for instance, the way that you mainly use VFR as the rule of the thumb, and IFR is only used when needed (or vice versa)?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Visual Flight Rules are used when the weather at an airport has clouds not closer than 1000 feet above the ground and the visibility is not less than 3 miles. Once airborne, VFR rules require (in general) that you stay a minimum of 500 feet below, 1000 above and 2000 feet horizontally from any clouds. If you are IFR rated (Instrument Rated=licensed to fly in weather less than listed above), you file an IFR flight plan and can then play in the clouds! People get confused between what is considered VFR/IFR conditions versus VFR/IFR flight regulations/procedures. John F Kennedy Jr. died while flying in VFR conditions (hazy with 5 miles visibility and no clouds) but over the ocean with no lights at night and no outside visual references, he needed IFR skills that he didn't have and thus lost control and crashed. Another 20 hours of IFR training towards his Instrument Rating would have given him the skills needed to fly solely by reference to his instruments. Non IR Private Pilots only get instrument training needed to get out of a cloud if one is flown into inadvertently, not sustained flight while multi-tasking/navigating.
Matterhorn said:
Hmmm, this is an interesting discovery. I wonder if it will switch off by toggling the "phone" radio button in the Connection Manager?
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Click to collapse
That is what I am noticing, Flight Mode or the Phone button in CM are not turning off the "phone" although it looks as if it is off. My guess is the UI gets the command but the radio does not. I also have PhoneAlarm installed and will try that flight mode also but I really like the "Phone Disconnect" (full right button) long press that brings up the dialog box to turn on flight mode. It is quick and easy but doesn't seem to do the job every time.
Gordo
Hi,
I don't know if anyone from HTC reads this forum, but has anyone reported this problem to them, as it seems a pretty serious bug!
A bug report may have some extra weight coming from a commercial pilot too!
Cheers,
Ben
eaglesteve said:
If HD is not unique in this regard, I doubt there will be a fix. After all, HTC could argue that we're supposed to turn them completely off during take off and landing anyway. Not sure if there is a need to completely turn them off mid air, but from I'm hearing, there is no need to go to that extreme. I supposed it would be preferable to do so, but I think airlines would not impose any unnecessary rules on the passenger from marketing viewpoint.
Would the professionals please correct me if I'm wrong, thanks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Most airlines I travel on specifically allow phones and PDAs in 'flight mode' to be used during the flight (even the safety videos say: put your phone in 'flight mode' now before switching it off for take-off).
However it if turned out that 'flight mode' on lots of devices wasn't turning off the radios, then maybe they will withdraw permission for ANY use of your devices during the flight.
From a purely PR perspective, I don't think a company like HTC would dare not fix a bug like this. They presumably wouldn't want their products to be associated with any doubts over causing problems with air safety.
There is also the 'trade description' aspect. If they advertise a working 'flight mode' on their sales materials, then they have to provide it, or will be in breach of consumer laws (at least in some countries).
I do think that anyone who has experienced this problem should report it to HTC, and refer them to this thread too.
Regards,
Ben
ben_gb said:
Most airlines I travel on specifically allow phones and PDAs in 'flight mode' to be used during the flight (even the safety videos say: put your phone in 'flight mode' now before switching it off for take-off).
However it if turned out that 'flight mode' on lots of devices wasn't turning off the radios, then maybe they will withdraw permission for ANY use of your devices during the flight.
From a purely PR perspective, I don't think a company like HTC would dare not fix a bug like this. They presumably wouldn't want their products to be associated with any doubts over causing problems with air safety.
There is also the 'trade description' aspect. If they advertise a working 'flight mode' on their sales materials, then they have to provide it, or will be in breach of consumer laws (at least in some countries).
I do think that anyone who has experienced this problem should report it to HTC, and refer them to this thread too.
Regards,
Ben
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Click to collapse
Air Carriers actually have gone a long way to permit as much as possible the use of PED's during the cruise part of the flight, (as a courtesy to Bussiness/first class pax mainly) but "transmitting" devices are fully forbidden, to the point of detailing even Bluetooth (mouse, headsets) devices. So I consider this a serious bug.
Hopefully we will get a fix, but I will check during my next flight, since I too had noticed the "surprisingly fast" signal pick up time.
If HD is not unique is this, should'nt the airline simply forbid the switching on completely rather than allowing the flight mode during take off and landing? Airline can't take the chance that some device are not completely stopping some of signal being transmitted IF it is true that this level of transmission affects take off and landing.
Unless I'm wrong, the impression I'm getting is that once the phone moves a few feet away from the pilot, then at flight mode, they will not be affected. Yes? No?
eaglesteve said:
Unless I'm wrong, the impression I'm getting is that once the phone moves a few feet away from the pilot, then at flight mode, they will not be affected. Yes? No?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
From directly affecting the pilots communication headsets, you are probable correct, however the real issue is the cabin has many areas in close proximity to antennas on the top and bottom of the fuselage, cable runs under the cabin floor, and avionics equipment/computers.
Interesting report here:
http://www.spectrum.ieee.org/print/3069
and from NASA
http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/20010066904_2001108092.pdf
It really seems that most likely a single cell phone left on may not cause trouble but the Airbus A380 holds over 500 passengers....what if one in five leave their cell phone radios on (including Bluetooth and WiFi transmitters) and are using 100 laptops, video games, noise canceling stereo headphones, etc. You get the idea, just read the first link above and you will understand.
Sorry to stray off topic a little here but I would really like to get more info from HD users if they think their phone/data transmitter is not turning off even though it looks like it is. I am trying to reliably reproduce the problem so I can find a remedy and not contend with annoying GSM clicks in my headset after we push from the gate and get scolded from my co-pilot that I forgot to turn off my phone (he/she can also hear the clicking through the intercom we use when that happens).
Regards,
Gordo
have you guys tried to just turn off the radio manually in comm manager instead of using airplane mode? Just wondering if that works instead.
For you that carry a GSM phone in the plane in case of a radio failure, beware that the GSM system was designed to allow communication in terrestrial vehicles, not in planes and it is affected by Doppler effect. If you are running faster than 200Km/h respect to the base station, the frequency tracking loop of the GSM cannot correct the Doppler offset, so you could not place a call to ground. With the airborne picocell it is different because it is not moving with respect to the passengers.
The bug you refer about the flight mode I think It's reallly a software bug. Switching off the radio chipset is very easy form a software point of view, all radio chips have registers that can be adressed by the processor to make them enter in power down or sleep conditions. (this is how the handset saves battery power). However, Windows Mobile is built on the premises that a IP data link is always available. This is a heritage from desktop computers. If your phone is configured to be always connected to the GPRS service (a G or 3G or H letter is present above the signal strength indicator), some applications which require "always on" feature like MSN, may try to connect to the data network "disregarding" the status of flight mode. You can try to open the task manager before setting the phone to flight mode and close all applications, to make sure you kill all processes that try to acces the network, not only the phone application, which is just one of them. In any case, a firmware update could fix this problem, I don't think they need to recall the devices.
how can I turn it off so I can save some battery...
EDIT: I got a cab file for everyone...just install, soft reset and it will be part of your comm manager
http://www.speedshare.org/download.php?id=03F8B49B11
Start/Settings/menu/All Settings/Personal/Phone/GSM_UMTS Services tab/Band
I'm sorry but don't you think that's too many clicks?
I realize that this may not be the popular thing to say around here, but I came from an iPhone 3G. Contemplated getting the 3GS but decided to give WinMo one more try and placed an order for a HD2 just now via DeviceWire.
But getting back on topic.. in the iPhone jailbroken world, there is a fantastic app called "SBSettings". It gets activated by a swipe near the top left area of the screen. From there, you could turn on/off toggles for things such as bluetooth, Edge, HSDPA, rotation, autocorrect, etc etc. People are building other toggles as addons for it all the time. But something like that should also exist for WinMo.
Now that I'm a WinMo newbie (my last windows mobile phone was a PPC-6700 and I swore never then to buy another windows mobile phone again). So there might already be another app just like the one that I'm describing. But if there isn't, it'd be great for someone to build that software. I'd certainly be willing to pay for that kind of conveniences!
maymaymay said:
Start/Settings/menu/All Settings/Personal/Phone/GSM_UMTS Services tab/Band
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
At 8am this morning my battery was 100%.
It is now 3pm and my battery is 60%. Weep.
I watched Star Trek for 30 mins on the train and did some email browsing and general tasks.
Wow.
mobilebuddha said:
I'm sorry but don't you think that's too many clicks?
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Click to collapse
Sure, if this was a setting people used one or more times a day, like turning wifi/bluetooth on/off.
How many people will ever even want to switch from the automatic default? 1% who are looking to save battery at the expense of speed? I'm sure there'll be some crazy control freak who wants minute-by-minute control of this, but who cares?
For 99% of people auto-3G degrading to 2G when 3G is unavailable is exactly what they want. For 0.99% of people they'll want to switch to pure 2G for battery purposes, it's a one-off action done on day one. It's easy enough to find in phone settings.
Who cares about that last 0.01%? If they're that bothered they can pay someone like me to knock up a switcher app.
I don't own an HD2, but I wouldn't be surprised if this could be speeded up a bit. On my Touch Pro2 the normal route would be Settings/Communications/Phone/Band (at the bottom of the screen). But the thing that gets launched when you go through that sequence is actually a programme in its own right, called CMBandSwitching.exe (resident in the Windows folder). So if you make a short-cut to that programme and put it in the Start Menu, then you can jump straight into it. Maybe there's a similar trick on the HD2?
look at first post...got a solution for everyone.
credit goes to moritz from pocketpc for creating this
[email protected] said:
look at first post...got a solution for everyone.
credit goes to moritz from pocketpc for creating this
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nice find!
I read on another site to simply turn off the always on in the wireless settings (not the background data in the sync menu) and my battery life has at least doubled. I was worried that my e-mail would not download or other apps would not work, but all my email still comes. The trick is that while your phone is in sleep mode it does not look for email, but once you use it the phone will get your email. Unless you MUST get your email right away, I would highly recommend changing this setting. All input would be greatly appreciated, I want to see if my good luck is working for other people. On a side note I am using Fresh ROM 2.0d.
Could you post the specific path to the setting you're talking about?
If I set my wifi to anything other than "never sleep", then once my phone goes into sleep mode I have to follow a long, convoluted, pain in the ass procedure to get wifi to work at all.
Hopefully that's not the setting you're talking about?
I posted this exact same thing in another thread two days ago. I was so stoked on my battery performance that I wanted to tell others. It's incredible the difference it makes! If you want even better performance go into Settings>Location...uncheck the use wireless networks box, and check the use GPS. Believe it or not the GPS uses a lot LESS battery life to detect your location than the wireless networks.
I'm getting like 2 whole days out of my phone now after doing these things...and that's with pretty moderate use. Hope other people try it out too.
subliminalurge said:
Could you post the specific path to the setting you're talking about?
If I set my wifi to anything other than "never sleep", then once my phone goes into sleep mode I have to follow a long, convoluted, pain in the ass procedure to get wifi to work at all.
Hopefully that's not the setting you're talking about?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1
where are these options?
I agree, I used the GPS as well, not the use wireless network. I forgot about that one. Your phone will only use the GPS when it needs it, not all the time like we used to think. The exact settings are at MENU/SETTINGS/WIRELESS & NETWORKS/MOBILE NETWORKS\AND UNCHECK ENABLE ALWAYS-ON MOBILE
alexthearmo said:
If you want even better performance go into Settings>Location...uncheck the use wireless networks box, and check the use GPS. Believe it or not the GPS uses a lot LESS battery life to detect your location than the wireless networks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This will vary from person to person. It will depend A LOT on how good your coverage is in the spot you're currently at.
GPS is GPS. It will require the same amount of juice anywhere on the planet.
Cell chips are different. They are hardcoded to give more electricity to the radio circuit when the signal is weak, for obvious reasons. So if you have a cell tower in your back yard, then yeah, you'll get great battery performance relying on cell based options. If your nearest cell tower is 4 miles away, and you're one of those people that loses signal when you go into your basement, then telling your phone to use cell info is only going to chew up battery even faster....
no thanks. This isn't a fix, it's a pref change.
Fix would mean that everything stays the same and you just get better battery life.
But, good advice none the less, just not for me.
scirio said:
no thanks. This isn't a fix, it's a pref change.
Fix would mean that everything stays the same and you just get better battery life.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, people on the forum use the word "fix" WAY too quickly.
"Fix" means everything works like you would expect, and like it should. Around here, people use the word "fix" when what they really mean is "here's a half-assed workaround that's a complete pain in the ass, but it will get 10% of the people by until something better comes along...."....
scirio said:
no thanks. This isn't a fix, it's a pref change.
Fix would mean that everything stays the same and you just get better battery life.
But, good advice none the less, just not for me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1 - 6 minutes and counting to receive a test / text msg, while phone is sleeping. Nice the know though, if I need to really trade connectivity for battery duration. I should test whether sms polling is tied to the email polling interval. Cause it ain't interrupt driven with this setting.
edit: i know it's not really sms polling, but rather the lack of an interrupt(-ion of sleep).
Yes, you are right, it is not a fix, but a great way to increase battery life and like I said, everything works the same. I get messages the exact same way and email will go straight to my phone once I use it.
bigupurself7 said:
Yes, you are right, it is not a fix, but a great way to increase battery life and like I said, everything works the same.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You sure about that?
When my wife sends me a text, I want to see it 5 seconds later, not 5 minutes later.
That may not matter to you, but when you make a statement to the whole world, you have to realize that some of us care about things that you might not.
How thoroughly did you test before you decided to say "everything works the same"?
Did you really test EVERYTHING? Or did you just test "everything that matters to you"?
I used to turn off background data and stuff on my stock 1.5, and I was thrilled I could actually leave it on with 2.1 so I wouldn't have to wait for google voice texts and gmail to come in. With 2.1 I can go the whole day with moderate usage and still have 40% at least left when I go to bed. Let it charge overnight and I'm good. This is good to know though if I am out in the sticks in a pinch and need the extra battery.
maybe it's different in 2.1 but in 1.5 i tried turning off the "always on" setting under mobile network settings under wireless controls but i found that after a while the phone will fail to restart evdo upon awakening and the only way to fix it is reboot. Never tried it on 2.1 but to me between the time on without signal fix nd upgraded radio i get all the battery life i need...
I get messages right away. I just got another one, tested it with a friend and it came right away!
On a side note, messages and phone calls have nothing to do with the internet. Remember we used to get text messages and phone calls way before smart phones.
bigupurself7 said:
On a side note, messages and phone calls have nothing to do with the internet. Remember we used to get text messages and phone calls way before smart phones.
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Click to collapse
Key words... "Used to"....
trust me, it works for me, wish it worked for you guys. its great having amazing battery life!
bigupurself7 said:
trust me, it works for me, wish it worked for you guys. its great having amazing battery life!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But at what cost?
That's the big question here. Are you 100% sure that you're not missing any communications, or having them delayed?
I'd LOVE to have better battery life, but when it comes down to it my phone is a communication tool. If any battery tweaks delay messages, then they're WORSE then useless, they're actually harmful.
If I wanted to use my phone as a half-assed replacement for a PSP, then I'm sure I could squeeze some amazing battery life out of it, too. But above all, and with NO compromise, I must be able to send and receive communications instantly.
That's what a phone is.
bigupurself7 said:
trust me, it works for me, wish it worked for you guys. its great having amazing battery life!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Have you rebooted while in that mode?
Yes I have rebooted and just did another test. Got the text right away. Even more interesting is I have a program called Mobile Defense which can find your phone if it is missing and that works as well since it is all done through text messages.
- turn off 3G
phone screen > ##778 > "000000" > modem settings >
preferred mode- should be on auto as default, switch it to cdma only
menu > commit settings > (auto reboots)
poof 1x only mode!!!
(much slower data speed but much smaller data authentaction overhead - hence less power usage, good for low signal or good signal with fringe 3g coverage)
also be careful what you change in the settings, one of the modes will give you data only and no voice call(+sms) ability
- also "rev A." enable/disable has no reason to be off unless your network engineer so leave it on, turning it off will just limit you to evdo(3g) rev.0 vs allow both rev.A and rev.0
- dont clear your MRU, if you do you will need to hit a native verizon tower to get data to work
- preferred serving system - home/auto A/auto B
B is default and works best in roughly 90% areas, auto A looks at same preferred list but starts in reverse order before goign to none preferred towers, sometimes phones gets confused between two preferred towers and grabs one with lower signal or just switched to much, occasional it might help to tell the phone to start searching for ID's in reverse order, this is little over simplified and prl's contain signal frequencies as well which is more of what a/b switch will look to, but thats the way i like to explain it so tough cookie
also if your ambitious and your phone keeps jumping between good 3g signal and tower with poor coverage or data, you could grab the sID's of the tower with good connection and put phone in home only mode and alter the nam settings home sid to match that, also your allowed to enter more than one sid in the settings if you wanted to build a mini prl list of sorts
warning:-altering home sid will give roam indicator false info and roaming will still be network side regardless of what miss programed phone shows
also if you put prl files on root of sd card you can also update prl from a file
Prove the lower power usage.
Lino. said:
Prove the lower power usage.
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Click to collapse
i'll skip how signal strength effects radios power output and B band penetrates buildings better in general and alot of boring electromagnetic theory
i'm guessing your referring to the 1x mode vs 3g/1x mode(3g/2g), if its not let me know
it was my assumption that it is general knowledge and accepted that evdo has alot higher power usage just maintaining network authentication with no data transfered for user purposes, it takes longer to acquire a 3g aka EV signal signal when booting phone or when its recovering from lost signal, the network packet overhead is larger between the phone and the cell tower, just like analog or cable modem has MTU that is basically the available space - used for network = info space, now imagine you had OCD and had to call your VM once ever min to make sure it didn't get deleted or someone change your password to check your messages, now say 1x would be listening just to make sure the greeting starts for maybe 10 seconds and your 3g would listen to say 30 seconds of the greeting before being satisfied the vm hasn't been lost or hacked, obviously the person broadcasting an open cell channel for less time will be able to use phone longer without charging, now these are made up numbers for illustration purposes and the authentication process takes fraction of a second, but it is done continuously over and over as long as the 3G icon is showing on the top of the phone
now actions speak louder than words and i would be more than happy to make some real world test to give you hard evidence and if this is what you want then you will have to wait because i'm changing alot of the apps on my phone and my usages is not consistent enough for test atm but i'll happily make one if you wait for my usage to settle down, now if someone wants to send me second htc incredible i'd happily make time dilated web video and post it to youtube so everyone can see first hand evidence of power difference
now if you are impatient and want proof right this second without a propper test conducted i can refer you to google but on more serious note the EVDO effect on moto razor is well know and modes have been done to edit, also the battery life of the v3a and v3m are very different, the largest difference in these two razors is one is evdo capable and the other is not, also cases have been documented of v3m users having less than half the battery life they had before after the EV icon starts showing up on the screen related directly to cell tower upgrade in the area they use the phone
now i know this is alot of nothing about the razor but it was very common phone, i have altered the data on lg wave, glimmer, htc touch diamond and few blackberrys and noticed power differences on all of them, its just the way modern cdma phones work and its effect is magnifed by lower signal levels, people that live few feet from cell towers will notice least difference while thous with 1 bar of coverage or around the -90 dbm or lower range will notice greatly magnified effects of this inefficient with data authentication process
seriously thou, anyone want to send me a second phone! lol
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couple googled links for you
http://www.hacktherazr.com/guides/verizon.disable.evdo.php
http://www.wikihow.com/Extend-the-Battery-Life-of-Your-Verizon-Wireless-RAZR
runkittyrun said:
seriously thou, anyone want to send me a second phone! lol
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couple googled links for you
http://www.hacktherazr.com/guides/verizon.disable.evdo.php
http://www.wikihow.com/Extend-the-Battery-Life-of-Your-Verizon-Wireless-RAZR
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Click to collapse
Thats pretty good, but good luck with this one.
Coming from a G1 I was not expecting anything better on the battery for this phone, we get a phone like this because of it's features and everyone should know that features like this phone has are going to consume more power.
If battery is a persons problem and they will always complain about it, then they should not have a smartphone.
Also chargers are cheap.
I wander with the same amount of use, 2 identical phones one running 3G the other running slower, what would be the difference and how could this be done, the phone with 3G would be waiting on the other to load a webpage 90% of the time.
Sorry I left T-Mobile because of their lack of 3G service, I'll be dammed if I put my phone back to Edge speeds.
Lino. said:
If battery is a persons problem and they will always complain about it, then they should not have a smartphone.
Also chargers are cheap.
I wander with the same amount of use, 2 identical phones one running 3G the other running slower, what would be the difference and how could this be done, the phone with 3G would be waiting on the other to load a webpage 90% of the time.
Sorry I left T-Mobile because of their lack of 3G service, I'll be dammed if I put my phone back to Edge speeds.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
this definitely is not targeted for normal use
this is more for the person that cant make it threw 5 hours with the phone idle the whole time, if you want to start larger amount of data then switch it back and wait 40 seconds?? for reboot
2g will load web pages and email and all other data, except view vcast videos and thats blocked on network side, also voice chat programs like skype would take quality hit do to smaller bandwidth, if you used two phones in active data sessions the 3G would quickly become more efficient as session size and length increased, like you said it would finish loading larger websites and videos while 2g is still broadcasting an active session working on transferring the info, but if you set two phones with same apps on them in same place with one in 1x and other evdo and watched them in standby mode the 1x will have longer battery, now ideally if your going somewhere with low signal it is much easier to turn off all data threw normal menu and will give you even better battery but no emails updates or other data
I live in a poor Verizon signal area. Every phone I have ever had gets easy better batt life when set to 1x only so thanks for this tip.
Any easy to automate this with a macro or widget somehow?
lexluthor said:
I live in a poor Verizon signal area. Every phone I have ever had gets easy better batt life when set to 1x only so thanks for this tip.
Any easy to automate this with a macro or widget somehow?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
thanks, makes my post all worth while
would be a sweet widget if you could change the phone mode on the fly dont know enough about the android system to know if its possible, but maybe someone can look at the phone settings and make customized epst program and make widget just for this setting without the programing forcing a reboot, have seen some phone that can change nam programing without reboot but most phone do it automatically so be interesting to see if changed without a reset if it takes effect or not, hmm or even epst mod at commmit to bring up reboot yes/no instead force reboot on commit would work then we know widget should be possible
What it the point in having a top of the line media phone if you are going to cramp it's style by limiting it's functions. If you "need" this top of the line phone you should be able to pony up for an extra batt. The Incredible is a COMPUTER you talk on. Can your laptop last all day with heavy use unplugged ? ? NO.
I plug my phone in at work and in the car. I also keep an extra batt in my briefcase for out of the office emergencies. These are not flip phones that last all day. I have been using media phones since they came out and they have yet to make one that will last all day using all the features like you want to.
Why restrict what the phone can do , when all you need is an extra batt.
jbh00jh said:
What it the point in having a top of the line media phone if you are going to cramp it's style by limiting it's functions. If you "need" this top of the line phone you should be able to pony up for an extra batt. The Incredible is a COMPUTER you talk on. Can your laptop last all day with heavy use unplugged ? ? NO.
I plug my phone in at work and in the car. I also keep an extra batt in my briefcase for out of the office emergencies. These are not flip phones that last all day. I have been using media phones since they came out and they have yet to make one that will last all day using all the features like you want to.
Why restrict what the phone can do , when all you need is an extra batt.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
your right, why dont we all carry around backpacks or napsacks with batterys and portable charges and spare parts for our smartphone, batterys are cheap
and people should not be allowed to buy tv screens over 32" if they can't show proof of owning blu-ray player, i mean come on, no top line device unless your gonna use it to best potienal, and in reality they are just making large screens more expensive for thou that do have blu-ray, yep, no big screens for people with dvd's and stander cable
OMFG!
why are people so quick to force their frame of reality on to everyone, is their a Hitler award i dont know about?
i get that smartphones are computers first and phones second, but that doesn't mean everyone using one has the same needs, some people need the phone part of the smartphone to, well actually work, i know what a strang concept why dont they just get an old bag phone, better signal, better battery life, and you can get them with shoulder straps!
android is about ability to customize our phones, why? because we all use them differently so you can change your home screens, pick the apps you download, the experience is aimed at being user driven
your example laptop is way off base, what you should be saying is if your laptop is full charged and its completely off or in a hibernate mode for 2-5 hours can you even at that point turn it on? that is what this post is about, not the time your using the smartphone but the time that its self-destructing between uses
look, i admit this is not for everyone, infact for 90+% i would recommend not even trying this, but the point is some people are effected by this and shouldn't they at least have the option or ability for this? there was post requesting this before i even brought it up
do you know how many people i've talked to over 80 that have smartphones these days, now i'm not saying these should have them or that it wasn't incredibly frustrating talking to them and i didn't want to bang my head on wall saying why did someone sell this person a smartphone we should have test to who can buy smartphones, if you cant figure out how to turn it on by yourself you cant' buy one! but the reality is smartphones are becoming mainstream
- why would anyone need top line media phone and then cramp it?
> because they dont use their smartphone the same way you use smartphone
i.e. my father runs poker tournament for a large company and bigger events are normal held at casinos, i dont know if you been to poker tournament lately but they are long events, also most casinos are bad on cell signal, partly cause of the building and partly cause they have areas with signal equipment that interferes, he also needs to have his email on the device because he's general contractor and works with larger companies that demand a quick response, now one could suggest blackberry in this case as of smartphones they in most cases do better with battery life, but honestly at the rate android apps are growing and how much for fun and enjoyment i get from it i cant dream of not recommending a android phone to him, now their is one degree of separation that shows an example where this is useful, and i could go on all day long with completely different examples where this is helpful
can we all agree to disagree about how people are stupid people are to modify how their phone functions? and try to keep to subject of re-enforcing this works or providing examples that contradict this, or question to how it works or expands on its helpfulness
jbh00jh said:
What it the point in having a top of the line media phone if you are going to cramp it's style by limiting it's functions. If you "need" this top of the line phone you should be able to pony up for an extra batt. The Incredible is a COMPUTER you talk on. Can your laptop last all day with heavy use unplugged ? ? NO.
Why restrict what the phone can do , when all you need is an extra batt.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I hear you on all of that and I fully understand what I have. I just came from a Touch Pro and, I'll tell you, battery was probably good for 14-16 hours if set to 1x and 10 hours on 3G. That a huge difference.
I'm on Wifi both at home and work and use Opera Mini, which works very well on 1x, plus I had a pretty quick way to go from 3G to 1x and back. It didn't limit me *that* much, but sure, there were plenty of times I needed to check something fast, wasn't near wifi and didn't want to use my macro to change to 3G and back. Yes, it's a bit of a pain.
Plus, I barely get a 3G signal in my house anyhow. It's 1x 75% of the time.
Now that I have my incredible, which does even so much more than the Touch Pro, yes, I'd like to keep it to 3G and I have chargers everywhere and an extra battery and might get an external battery charger too.
Still, I'd love to see an app or widget that can quickly set the phone to 1x mode and back.
runkittyrun said:
your right, why dont we all carry around backpacks or napsacks with batterys and portable charges and spare parts for our smartphone, batterys are cheap
and people should not be allowed to buy tv screens over 32" if they can't show proof of owning blu-ray player, i mean come on, no top line device unless your gonna use it to best potienal, and in reality they are just making large screens more expensive for thou that do have blu-ray, yep, no big screens for people with dvd's and stander cable
OMFG!
why are people so quick to force their frame of reality on to everyone, is their a Hitler award i dont know about?
i get that smartphones are computers first and phones second, but that doesn't mean everyone using one has the same needs, some people need the phone part of the smartphone to, well actually work, i know what a strang concept why dont they just get an old bag phone, better signal, better battery life, and you can get them with shoulder straps!
android is about ability to customize our phones, why? because we all use them differently so you can change your home screens, pick the apps you download, the experience is aimed at being user driven
your example laptop is way off base, what you should be saying is if your laptop is full charged and its completely off or in a hibernate mode for 2-5 hours can you even at that point turn it on? that is what this post is about, not the time your using the smartphone but the time that its self-destructing between uses
look, i admit this is not for everyone, infact for 90+% i would recommend not even trying this, but the point is some people are effected by this and shouldn't they at least have the option or ability for this? there was post requesting this before i even brought it up
do you know how many people i've talked to over 80 that have smartphones these days, now i'm not saying these should have them or that it wasn't incredibly frustrating talking to them and i didn't want to bang my head on wall saying why did someone sell this person a smartphone we should have test to who can buy smartphones, if you cant figure out how to turn it on by yourself you cant' buy one! but the reality is smartphones are becoming mainstream
- why would anyone need top line media phone and then cramp it?
> because they dont use their smartphone the same way you use smartphone
i.e. my father runs poker tournament for a large company and bigger events are normal held at casinos, i dont know if you been to poker tournament lately but they are long events, also most casinos are bad on cell signal, partly cause of the building and partly cause they have areas with signal equipment that interferes, he also needs to have his email on the device because he's general contractor and works with larger companies that demand a quick response, now one could suggest blackberry in this case as of smartphones they in most cases do better with battery life, but honestly at the rate android apps are growing and how much for fun and enjoyment i get from it i cant dream of not recommending a android phone to him, now their is one degree of separation that shows an example where this is useful, and i could go on all day long with completely different examples where this is helpful
can we all agree to disagree about how people are stupid people are to modify how their phone functions? and try to keep to subject of re-enforcing this works or providing examples that contradict this, or question to how it works or expands on its helpfulness
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why would someone need a backpack to carry a 2oz, battery ?
The more I read on this tread the more I understand.
That was an option on my G1 to turn off 3G, I never did, I hardly had 3G with T-mobile.
Anyway you can turn off Mobile network on the fly, you can also put the phone in airplane mode, but both of these you will have to internet, also you could turn off Auto Sync, or turn the phone OFF for best battery life.
Okay I've always had a concern of having my phone stolen and the data in it being used for nefarious purposes (i.e. someone buys with my google account). Well not that worried but its a thought. So after 6 months of cursing blur and trying to get rid of it I thought I would try out the "Locate my phone" with it.
Logged into my blur account and yep there is my phone (phone number isn't recongised), but when I try the "locate my phone" feature it just ends up searching and never finding. Not sure if this is a carrier issue (I brought an unlocked phone from the UK and I live in Australia, my carrier does not support the Milestone 2), but just wondering if anyone else has trialed this.
I had a go at lookout but kept force closing for some reason, and I figured if Blur did what I needed, no need to pay for Lookout.
I used the motoblur apps when I first got the phone just to see what they were like...
But I quickly got rid of them as the phone was running so slow and chuggy for a 1GHz and battery life was atrocious.
As for the locate my phone feature, you would have to leave GPS on all the time yeah?...the amount of apps and Google apps that can keep track of your movements if of more concern to me than tracking the phone if ever lost (I've never lost a phone to date, touch wood!)
Sent from my Milestone 2 using XDA app
I had tried to use the feature to test that if it works, but even if I enabled GPS, the web page was keeping finding my tombstone and resulted in failure. Maybe it was caused by the position I'm in (you know China's GFW always blocks some normal internet requests). Anyway, since then, I turned to pay attention to my bags instead of trusting in blur. And I should remind you that any thief who got your phone will pull out your battery at once and therefore any app can not work.
Sent from my Milestone 2
I'm not overly sure they would always pull the battery, if I was a theif I would pull the info on the phone first that way to grab details about the customer to onsell. Also be interested incase I left my phone at work (on my charger) and panicked when I got home.
I gave up on it, and tried Seekdroid, works great, only a $1. I have no issue with being tracked by my phone, I figured that they could do it from cell towers anyway (did install the app that access the tracking data out of interest). My life is so dull that I cannot see a reason why anyone would care for that info (they would find out the bus route to work and home again mainly)
MotoBlur Works for me.
Blur works fine for me. At least in South America, I tested the locate my phone feature and it worked flawlessly. I heard seekdroid is another great app for finding your phone as well.
Motoblur is a piece of crap, it only exists to slow down the device.
Sent from my A953 using XDA Premium App