Database Users

Vibrant GPS Test: Motorola CLIQ vs TWO Vibrants initial lock

Here's the Video, for those who want to see first hand the Vibrant initial GPS locking issue:
I decided to compare my two new Samsung Vibrant's to my Motorola Cliq...
I tried with and without the fix, and tried with and without wireless, and with and without use wireless networks... all resulted in the same results... The Vibrant GPS has a problem.
Test Case
1. Power off
2. Power on
3. Start GPS Test
Results:
Motorola Cliq: ~ 1 second
Vibrant 1: ~ 70 seconds
Vibrant 2: ~120 seconds
I repeated the the test several times, and the vibrants had random results from 1 to 10 minutes to find the initial lock.
After the initial lock, subquentiant locks took less than a second, however anytime the vibrant is shutdown, or hours pass, the vibrant goes back to taking minutes to lock.

awesome video.. i noticed a couple of things that were very interesting in this video:
one, i noticed after owning *cough*several*cough* cliqs that the cliq keeps the GPS polling in the background periodically. the cliq also runs in MS Based mode. i found this out after being on the road with my band with this phone. when my network signal is lost so is my GPS lock. that probably contributes to the faster lock displayed in GPS test. the software seems to keep the GPS locked in the background all the time.
two, i also noticed that the vibrant in the middle that showed a single sat lock in GPS test also displayed the same time discrepancy that i discovered and posted about in my reply in the "GPS fix" thread. the vibrant also seems to keep the GPS "off" when not in use by any programs.. and it seems to have a relatively cold startup. this probably contributes to the phone sipping battery as compared to the cliq. the vibrant also comes stock with the GPS in "stand alone" mode. this makes the GPS separate from the mobile network. in theory you should still be able to achieve GPS data and lock independent of your network connection status. this is helpful when navigating in an out of network area.
i do agree that the GPS on the vibrant needs to be fixed.. but i am very convinced that the problem is in the way that the software reads the raw data from the GPS and Compass and also how the hardware is utilized.. and not related to any hardware failure. i also agree that one thing i liked about the cliq was that the compass and gps were always bang-on accurate. even if the rest of the phone was a total fail.

This depresses me to no end. I love my Vibrant, and these issues are what's keeping me at bay with a return. So long as they just came out and admitted there was a problem, that they intended to fix, I would be happy.
What do you guys think? Is it worth it to keep the phone and hope that the OTA / 2.2 update fixes the issues? Or are we about to be left in the dust by lack of support?

im of the firm belief that the issues are software based and therefore very fixable.. i also was shown the email that mentioned the 2.2 update for the Vibrant that will be released in the "next couple of weeks." so.. im keeping mine. my GPS works well enough for now that its usable until an update is issued.

captain_awesome said:
awesome video.. i noticed a couple of things that were very interesting in this video:
one, i noticed after owning *cough*several*cough* cliqs that the cliq keeps the GPS polling in the background periodically. the cliq also runs in MS Based mode. i found this out after being on the road with my band with this phone. when my network signal is lost so is my GPS lock. that probably contributes to the faster lock displayed in GPS test. the software seems to keep the GPS locked in the background all the time.
.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not sure why they would change the code that already worked very well with the cliq... Turn the cliq on and BANG it locks with and without use wireless network setting
I hear that the galaxy s used newer gps hardware, so while I'm hopeful it's a software issue, I'm not so sure. Every app now days is using location services, so this is a MAJOR issue if they can't get GPS to lock on in seconds

dalepa said:
I'm not sure why they would change the code that already worked very well with the cliq... Turn the cliq on and BANG it locks with and without use wireless network setting
I hear that the galaxy s used newer gps hardware, so while I'm hopeful it's a software issue, I'm not so sure. Every app now days is using location services, so this is a MAJOR issue if they can't get GPS to lock on in seconds
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
what code are you referring to?
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App

Is this news? I had a CLIQ and there have been several updates to it's GPS capabilities. Even the latest update (6 months after it's release) is supposed to improve lock time. I was happy with the CLIQ's GPS performance but it wasn't always good. The Vibrant has no problem getting a quick lock or seeing a bunch of sats with acceptable SNR levels. It just doesn't connect to nearly as many as it should and eventually it will take longer to get a lock (I'm back to a few seconds but who knows how long that will last) which seems completely like a firmware issue.
With some new tweaks I did to the GPS, I get a quicccccccccck lock from a FRESH reboot and this is only after 10 seconds or so. This is subject to get worse or stay the same but obviously, the GPS isn't flawed but the firmware is. It also seems like if it was to lock onto more sats, that it would be really good.
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What tweaks did you do to get 10 seconds after reboot?
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App

dalepa said:
What tweaks did you do to get 10 seconds after reboot?
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's all temporary stuff so I wouldn't bother.

heygrl said:
With some new tweaks I did to the GPS, I get a quicccccccccck lock from a FRESH reboot and this is only after 10 seconds or so. This is subject to get worse or stay the same but obviously, the GPS isn't flawed but the firmware is. It also seems like if it was to lock onto more sats, that it would be really good.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ooh, that's interesting. You seem to have six locks, and two of those are reported "00" and are red? How are you getting locks there?
What tweaks did you make to keep zero's on your phone?

Try this. mines locks very fast using these settings
these are my application settings in LbsTestMode (use SGS tools to get into it)
session type >tracking
test mode >s/w test
operation mode >standalone
start mode >hot start
gps plus >on
dynamic acuracy >on
acuracy >1
gps logging >on <----this is very important

why did you dig up an 8 month old thread??

darksandz93 said:
why did you dig up an 8 month old thread??
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Because he thought he could help someone.
Why did you post in an 8 month old thread if him resurrecting it offended you so much? Just let it die again.

and who said i was offended? its simple question out of curiosity. how bout you get off your high horse buddy.

Maybe our GPS isn't so bad after all..

DROID with network based location off, GPS based location on
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Vibrant with network based location off, GPS based location on
Same story for one DROID X at this store even with it's AGPS on (there is an option within the location menu for enabling or disabling aGPS on the X), but another DROID X got a quicker fix than both of those DROID's however I suspect it was polling GPS before I opened up maps. The Vibrant pulled that location in about 10 seconds, no "Location Unavail." Msg at all and it was all indoors.

ha thats the same store i bought my vibrant from i can tell your by rainbow and 215 but yeah i havent really had issues with my gps at least that i know of it seems accurate to me

Side by side comparison with my G1 shows me (at least) that the 2 Vibrants I've tested take about 10x as long to get a fix and use about 1/10th the number of satellites.

I haven't had a single gps error since before the vibrant was even released but judging by how many people are I suspect certain batches were defected

Maxy6 said:
Side by side comparison with my G1 shows me (at least) that the 2 Vibrants I've tested take about 10x as long to get a fix and use about 1/10th the number of satellites.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Same story for me, except my Vibrant side-by-side with my Blackberry 8900 (can't confirm # of satellites but I can confirm time to get a lock).
Anecdotal evidence isn't convincing me that Samsung is dragging their feet here.

Maxy6 said:
Side by side comparison with my G1 shows me (at least) that the 2 Vibrants I've tested take about 10x as long to get a fix and use about 1/10th the number of satellites.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That sounds bad but can we get some guesstimates in time? 1secondx10=10 seconds. 10secondsx10=100seconds..
In MS-Based mode under LBSTestMode (whether or not this actually makes any changes to GPS behavior, that's what I have it in) It takes no time to get a lock.

gps works great for me. I get a lock in doors instantly..... Its a little off though in doors but out doors its spot on. I dont need to find a pot of gold so within 20 feet is good for me.

Locational services work, maybe, one out of five times for me. When they try to locate me, it shows me in a neighboring city for at least five minutes. If I wait forever, it will sometimes finally update with the correct location.

So im at work in a huge brick building. With just my location on it puts me about 10 blocks away. I went outside on the deck at work in a open view, opened google maps again and saw I was still 10 blocks away, I pulled down my notification bar and turned gps on, within 4 seconds it found me right dead smack center of my work building.
I dont know, I dont have any issues though. Thing works great for me...

The thing is, it sometimes works quite well. I haven't been able to nail now a pattern with it. Turning on AGPS helps a lot, sometimes. Other times it fails to download the data for AGPS and drops to standalone mode, which is what it should do, but why would the download seem to fail when the G1 sitting next to it works fine? I've tried various settings for the server and such, all of them work sometimes.
The other irritating thing is when it seems to download the almanac, then proceeds to sit there "seeing" only one satellite (SNR bars in GPS Test). It knows which ones are in the sky, it should use that to get the GPS chip tracking all of them at once, as it has the channels. It's acting like a single channel receiver sometimes. That's a big reason why AGPS is so fast, it knows which channels to listen on, no need to search for signals.
I didn't have the G1 before the GPS was fixed, but it sounds a lot like our issue. The way the SGS acts leads me to think it's software related, likely the GPS driver or firmware. The actual RF performance seems pretty good, sometimes better than the G1 going by the SNR reported. It's just acting like it's often getting poor instruction from the driver/OS level.
My biggest complaint is that Samsung and TMobile are trying to act like it's not a problem. If Samsung can't reproduce it, they aren't trying or they have programmed the GPS chip in such a way that it works in their location. Samsung is a global company, there's no excuse for not testing a flagship device in multiple countries. And in todays market, there's no excuse for not being upfront and honest with your customers. Nor is there one for not beta testing with real customers in every major market you want to enter.
If I were running things over at Verizon, I'd be laughing my way to the bank and telling Samsung to keep their busted SGS. They were smart enough to get more than one manufacturer with a "superphone" and don't need Samsung. Between the Droid X and the Incredible, they have got TMO and AT&T spanked hard.

Yea, how long until their competitors start running ads poking fun at it, like the no jacket required ads last week making light of the iPhone antenna problems? HTC and moto should be all over this.

I am unable to get a lock indoors and outside it takes 20sec to a minute or more to lock on and then it turns on and off sporadically. It will seem to be fine and then it just does not function and then in awhile it seems to be better. I have the MS etc. fix enabled and before that it was not functioning with any kind of regularity or accuracy. I get 1 of 12 in use at the most and most of the time I get zero in use.The accuracy after it finally gets a lock is adequate but not great.I use Cardio trainer on a daily basis several times per day and it is just awful as it locks on and off and leaves me with terrible accuracy. Indoors it shows me about 2 to 3 miles away and most of the time it picks up no location at all. An email I received back from Samsung after complaining stated that they have not found the cause of any problem and they are continuing to try and find the cause and resolve the issue. I called tech supp and they at least mentioned that there might be an issue and could give me no other information. That is not very reassuring to me as the device has been out internationally for some months now and out of the box has had GPS issues. Really makes me question my decision to purchase this device. I do love it but the GPS is a integral part of my usage and it does not look like there is any help anytime soon. I am just past the 14 day period so a refund is not possible. I was holding on to the hope that Samsung would act quickly or even just act on this issue and I guess I was betting on a tired horse.I guess Samsungs track record speaks for itself and it is not too pretty. I really do prefer using it to my N1 it has tremendous potential to be as good or better than any phone on the market.

Google Maps current position accuracy problem

I bought a Evo recently, overall I'm very happy with it except the battery.
I have some trip recently so I began to use the gps and google maps,i found the latitude and longitude reported by the gps chip has a fixed accuracy error of about 300 meters to the correct value.
I have a Huawei C8500, whose gps can be called perfectly correct, it can show my position correctly within 5 meters, always,it helped me to go out of some mountainous area without road correctly.
I compare the data reported by the application gps status,i see the data on the two phones always have a little difference.
My evo is hardware version 0004, the latest 3.70.651.1 stock sprint rom.
I've known that it use rtr6500 chip from qualcomm,i will try to find the datasheet to check, but as I have seen online that somebody have good accuracy on evo, so I guess it's not chip problem.
Any good suggestion?
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App

I use google earth today, it always show the current position within 5 meters, and the time delay is maybe within 100 ms,i checked it on a road on a mountain area with a turn every 20 meters in average today, google earth can even show each turn correctly in a unnoticeable delay, and it has full 3D support,it can even show the road just shown as what I see when I'm in the car driving, and even some look around function to check the environment in 3D, it's way better than google maps.
The shortcomings is that earth has no much info about the name of the place than google maps.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App

My GPS says it's correct up to 5-10 meters. So far it's always pinpointed me exactly.
As far as battery life, mines pretty decent. I'm running Myns with Kings #9 kernel
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I checked the difference of the gps data of the 2 phones carefully today, in fact both the latitude and longitude difference are within 0.00005° most of the time, and the largest difference are just 0.00015°, with a calculator and a little knowledge of the earth geometry, the difference are just within 5 meters most of the time, and 15 meters at most, so the gps data of my evo is correct, the problem is google maps show the current position some hundreds meters afar always.
what may be the problem of google maps on my evo?i used nexus one for 10 months, google maps works correctly on it too.
I have no much incentive to use some hacked rom by now, as I have no interest to the system programming on android now to customize my own rom, and I don't like to waste a lot time to try the rom of others endlessly, no much fun after doing this kind of things with other phones in the past, what I want is just a phone that just do whatever I want to do.
I bought a 9600mAh/3.7V external battery,i can charge my evo fully 3 times by it now ( maybe it can charge more times after more usage) without charging the external battery, it's acceptable for now.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App

Try running and downloading the GPS ephemeris data with the GPS Status app in the market.. see if that helps

izico said:
...the gps data of my evo is correct, the problem is google maps show the current position some hundreds meters afar always.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Google Maps obeys the phone's location settings for determining what method to use (GPS vs. cell and/or wifi signals). Check your global location settings and make sure GPS is enabled, and consider turning off "Use wireless networks", at least temporarily. I do not believe Google Earth obeys these settings, using GPS all of the time, but I could be mistaken.
I believe with both settings checked, Google Maps will initially use cell tower and/or wifi signals to estimate your location until it can resolve your true GPS location. It may even continue to factor in the cell/wifi signal information, which is why I suggest turning that option off while comparing locations between Maps and Earth.
Good luck.

It does not help about the accuracy, but google maps will pinpoint my position to another place about some hundreds meters away now.
This is really weird so I try to find if I have installed something that interfere with google maps, maybe found it.
I have installed street view on google maps in the past, but this application does not work without any indication that it exists, and it can't be either uninstalled or opened, it looks like a zombie in the system now.
I guess it's still working when google maps run, it only do some wired thing to make maps malfunction now.
Do you know a way to uninstall this zombie totally? If there's no way in stock sprint rom,i need to learn to root and flash my evo then, I really don't feel much fun in this now.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App

GPSrestore Samsung APP FIXED my GPS

From day ONE my GPS has not worked. After spending endless hours on "fixes", phone resets, hacks AND 4 new phones, FINALLY it appears that a solution has been found that really works.
The GPS was taking minutes to lock before I updated to stock froyo and after updating to froyo the GPS became totally useless until yesterday when I download "GPSrestore Samsung" app from the market and ran it.
Instantantly my GPS/Maps/GPS test obtained a GPS lock within 5 seconds and im also getting a fix in my office building (near the window) within 20 seconds. No one in the office has been able to get a fix at this window location
I'm not sure what GPSrestore does, but it finally fixed a painfull bug.

dalepa said:
From day ONE my GPS has not worked. After spending endless hours on "fixes", phone resets, hacks AND 4 new phones, FINALLY it appears that a solution has been found that really works.
The GPS was taking minutes to lock before I updated to stock froyo and after updating to froyo the GPS became totally useless until yesterday when I download "GPSrestore Samsung" app from the market and ran it.
Instantantly my GPS/Maps/GPS test obtained a GPS lock within 5 seconds and im also getting a fix in my office building (near the window) within 20 seconds. No one in the office has been able to get a fix at this window location
I'm not sure what GPSrestore does, but it finally fixed a painfull bug.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
glad it did for u, but for most of us it did absolutely nothing. My GPS to this day remains broken, and I have just accepted it knowing that I'll be owning the LG 2X in the near future and will never buy Samsung again.

dalepa said:
From day ONE my GPS has not worked. After spending endless hours on "fixes", phone resets, hacks AND 4 new phones, FINALLY it appears that a solution has been found that really works.
The GPS was taking minutes to lock before I updated to stock froyo and after updating to froyo the GPS became totally useless until yesterday when I download "GPSrestore Samsung" app from the market and ran it.
Instantantly my GPS/Maps/GPS test obtained a GPS lock within 5 seconds and im also getting a fix in my office building (near the window) within 20 seconds. No one in the office has been able to get a fix at this window location
I'm not sure what GPSrestore does, but it finally fixed a painfull bug.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am not trying to piss in your wheaties but you might want to wait a couple of days and see if it holds up. Or use it on a road trip. It worked for me for a day or 2. Now I have to run that app about every day or mastersgps fix to get the sat to lock. Better than nothing I guess

I usually run the restore app every time I use navigation. It does fix it, but goes away after a couple days.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App

This just out I haven't tried it yet I will when i get home
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=974702

This app does not fix my GPS.

What to do if you dont get a position fix in Samsung restore app ?

phrozenflame said:
What to do if you dont get a position fix in Samsung restore app ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Do the hardware fix if you think you're up to it. The GPSRestore app only helps temporarily, it wont be long until its unreliable again.

Samsung gps restore works because it forces our phones to use standalone gps without ms assist feature to get triangulated location using network data.
This in my opinion is not a fix its a workaround and it only fixes half the problem. It helps us get a lock but the accuracy is still a major issue

So bummed, I can't get this working
My problem is that I have to run GPSRestore before every Nav. But it usually takes 4 or 5 tries. It usually happens after 10-15 minutes of driving. Its so frustrating. I am tempted to try the hardware fix but I'm a total tard when it comes to doing things with my hands. Help! Anyone out there willing to earn a few bucks if I send you my phone and have you do this for me?

Same here, gps restore only works the first couple of times & then its like you did anything to fix it.
Sent from my SGH-T959: Trigger 3.0.1, Overstock 2.4.1

Im on Bionix now but for the past year I was on stock 2.1. Never had GPS find me.
GPSTest finds 11 sat's but only locks on to 1 or 2 for a couple seconds. Google Maps shows me about half a mile from where I actually am haha.
Out of warranty, I wonder if TMO will do anything for me

Hardware Fix?
thegreatcity said:
Do the hardware fix if you think you're up to it. The GPSRestore app only helps temporarily, it wont be long until its unreliable again.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What's does the hardware fix entail?

The app worked fine over a few months of usage on my old Vibrant, so far I've used it only once on my replacement vibrant, to this day still locks in and I'll get ~20ft accuracy

bryant19 said:
What's does the hardware fix entail?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Pics and instructions. Follow them to the T and all will be well.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=878970

I can't install it on my Vibrant. I can't even find it on Google Play App.
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reddragon72 said:
glad it did for u, but for most of us it did absolutely nothing. My GPS to this day remains broken, and I have just accepted it knowing that I'll be owning the LG 2X in the near future and will never buy Samsung again.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry to burst your bubble, but the LG 2x is the worst hardware I have owned ever. Everything is unreliable and randomly stops working, including cell reception. GPS is flaky on it as well, as is the camera - the cover of the camera causes glare, needs the back to be taken off if you want good looking photos.
I will buy Samsung every time over a LG. Yes GPS on its own is weak but with A-GPS Sammy's lock instantly.

bryant19 said:
What's does the hardware fix entail?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's really easy and only takes about 20 minutes. Follow the guide that KWKSLVR posted and you'll almost have the average GPS we Vibrant owners have been pining for over the last couple years, heh.
Something to think about on top of the just bending the copper tab in case you try hardware fix... I snipped the end off of one of the ends of a coax cable I had lying around and used some tweasers to wedge it under the copper tab after it's bent up; just as a little reassurance that the tab doesn't bend too much and lose contact with the back cover's copper connectors.
I take no responsibility if you aren't gentle and break something though, heh

Galaxy Note GPS inflight

Hello everybody,
I have been trying my Galaxy Note for weeks in airplane at high altitudes/high speeds, till now I couldn't figure out when & how to use the Galaxy Note GPS as a reliable equipment as for unknown reasons to me it gets locked to satellites inflight randomly this could happens sometimes immediately & other times takes hours with no signal or 3 satellites at most, even when its locked to satellites it keeps working fine but if close GPS for 1 minute it couldn't come back to life again, one time I tried it locked already from ground before take-off and it kept working fine the whole flight as i didn't turn it off. I'm starting to develop a pattern on how to get a signal faster while in airplane and it seems to me holding the Galaxy Note like an LNB for satellite antennas helps you to get it locked faster I can't confirm this even its just an idea.
I hope some body can figure out why the Galaxy Note GPS acting like this inflight. Also if any one have some software that can let me send the GPS NMEA data I could use that to see my position on any windows map software like Google earth or aviation software like Jeppesn Flite star/JeppView
Here is some pictures for my randomly successful trials
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not an expert on this. but sometimes if the device have satellite data cached while it has data access, it will lock on faster.
Back in my galaxy s days, the a common fix to resolve the crappy gps issue was to clear agps data and force the phone to get a new set of data from google's server.
Not sure if that's what cause your problem tho...

slow fix when in flight is possibly due to the speed you're doing at that point, it's going to be tough getting a fix when going that fast (coming from a cold lock)

From your pictures I gather you are a pilot as well
If you have a decent fix before takeoff, and you have your Note
stuck to the sidewindow, you should retain your fix.
As soon as you take it away from the window you
start loosing your fix fast. Reobtaining the fix will get harder and harder.
This behaviour is least noticable at ground level, most noticable with increased
speeds and altitudes.
Just stick it low on a side window in a mount, should keep working.
BTW : What the name of the app there ?

Off topic but what plane were you flying?

lucid said:
From your pictures I gather you are a pilot as well
If you have a decent fix before takeoff, and you have your Note
stuck to the sidewindow, you should retain your fix.
As soon as you take it away from the window you
start loosing your fix fast. Reobtaining the fix will get harder and harder.
This behaviour is least noticable at ground level, most noticable with increased
speeds and altitudes.
Just stick it low on a side window in a mount, should keep working.
BTW : What the name of the app there ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The interesting is that I had many cheaper Nokia around me on the same flights and all of them got GPS locked in less than a minute without any concerns how you hold the device just put it facing the windows nothing more so its unbelievable to have the latest Samsung state of the art Galaxy Note with such GPS unreliable performance, you can also notice in pic no. 5 the speed is only 180 km/h which is totally error.
The programs: GPS STATUS & GPS TEST

mogambo000 said:
off topic but what plane were you flying?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
boeing 737-800

Wow, I never owned a Nokia with GPS, but that is amazing!
I've seen many pax and crew struggle to get GPS fixed, no matter where they are in flight. Maybe Nokia's are just really good at highspeed/alt. fixing. (commercial jets)
From old "serial" GPS , to bluetooth mouse GPS, to internal (a)gps, it has always been a struggle at highspeed/alt.
Then again, stuff I fly rarely exceeds 200knots/20.000 feet so I'm all good up there
Safe skies !

PM sent.

I was sent this post in a PM, dont know why maybe to help explain, or offer my gps fix, honestly dont know. But after reading this, here are some reasons why you might be havng this issue:
Phones put the antenna (gps) in different places, holding it sometimes blocks the signal or weakens it (Yes the signal and antenna is that weak).
Speed plays a factor, inflight will take longer then before.
Time of day, sats remember are not in the same position all the time.
Warm lock opposed to a cold lock, Hard lock opposed to a soft lock.
And who makes the gps chip.
There are many factors when it comes to gps signals.