Related
Ok people. The Wiki hasn't been updated and we can't be too harsh on people looking for answers. Here is a beautiful tool that via collaboration will encompass a large part of the knowledge we all have.
Let's get together and get it updated. We don't want the Athena wiki, the wiki for the most expensive and versatile and powerful device, to look like crap or empty. Doesn't make members of the Athena group look too organized and I personally don't like that.
This said, we need to start moving forward. There is too much knowledge to not capture it in a central place and share it with others. We should get on this now.
I know we all have jobs and other obligations so it's best if we work in shifts. We're going to need to coordinate the effort and work with moderators, etc.
Once the Wiki is updated, we'll refer newbies there first, then ask them to learn to search then try to help if all else fails. We need to combine our efforts and strengths and stop looking like a bunch of unorganized chimps.
Who's in? What moderator will lead? We really need to tidy up our house people. It's a mess.
PS: I would like to get this all done before I get my HTC Shift people!
no?
So no one is interested in getting this going huh. Cool.
Don't complain then.
ltxda said:
So no one is interested in getting this going huh. Cool.
Don't complain then.
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After setting up the new ROM
ltxda said:
Ok people. The Wiki hasn't been updated and we can't be too harsh on people looking for answers. Here is a beautiful tool that via collaboration will encompass a large part of the knowledge we all have.
Let's get together and get it updated. We don't want the Athena wiki, the wiki for the most expensive and versatile and powerful device, to look like crap or empty. Doesn't make members of the Athena group look too organized and I personally don't like that.
This said, we need to start moving forward. There is too much knowledge to not capture it in a central place and share it with others. We should get on this now.
I know we all have jobs and other obligations so it's best if we work in shifts. We're going to need to coordinate the effort and work with moderators, etc.
Once the Wiki is updated, we'll refer newbies there first, then ask them to learn to search then try to help if all else fails. We need to combine our efforts and strengths and stop looking like a bunch of unorganized chimps.
Who's in? What moderator will lead? We really need to tidy up our house people. It's a mess.
PS: I would like to get this all done before I get my HTC Shift people!
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Click to collapse
Sorry - been busy. I'm in. There must be others too?
OK, I spent some time updating the Q&A page. This could use some organization, but at least there is some usable information there.
We need to think about the questions that get asked again and again, and make sure they are added in, so we can then smugly tell them to read the Wiki and know their question will be answered if they take the time to read.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/group.php?groupid=287
Join now if your are currently a user of any of the Samsung Galaxy S devices!!!
What's the difference between the your xda group and say the xda forum section dedicated to the Galaxy?
Honest question, not trying to be funny.
A bit redundant really.
Ummmmmm WTFITS??
Joined, although mine is in for repair right now..
If we get all of the Galaxy devices working together we can acomplish a lot more! We are not enemies, we need to help each other. Developers and the community as a whole are needed to make our devices the best available.
Whosdaman said:
If we get all of the Galaxy devices working together we can acomplish a lot more! We are not enemies, we need to help each other. Developers and the community as a whole are needed to make our devices the best available.
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how does that explains what the group is all about? I think we all read and post the galaxy s forums.. or did i miss smth?
It's the point that now there is one place that everyone can look at for the most important things.
Ok... this is kinda dumb... what do you think the XDA forums are for.. I don't need spam.. so i'm out.
Seriously? What are the points of groups then. Obviously ignorance is bliss in this community. If groups are organized accordinally, they can ultimately benefit the society of any device much more then the forums can.
Tell all of them to join here and sod off numbnuts.
Sent from my GT-I9000M using Tapatalk
maybe the group has links to warez？
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
What's so official about it? I think you made a typo in your title, because if it were official, Samsung would have started it, or at least endorse it. Have they?
The fact you need to be part of the group to even see group comments to me suggests it will actually reduce collaboration slightly. It's more of a exclusive little community (the title says so themselves), and I don't like to feel part of some exclusive little club, I want to share with the community.
Sorry, I don't think I'll join. Either way, you can't just share ROM's between the devices, because they do contain some different hardware. There are good reasons for keeping the various i9000 variants separate in the forums
This is just my opinion (no offense)
andrewluecke said:
What's so official about it? I think you made a typo in your title, because if it were official, Samsung would have started it, or at least endorse it. Have they?
The fact you need to be part of the group to even see group comments to me suggests it will actually reduce collaboration slightly. It's more of a exclusive little community (the title says so themselves), and I don't like to feel part of some exclusive little club, I want to share with the community.
Sorry, I don't think I'll join. Either way, you can't just share ROM's between the devices, because they do contain some different hardware. There are good reasons for keeping the various i9000 variants separate in the forums
This is just my opinion (no offense)
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Since your so against it, why is everyone else for it?
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=764084
Why join a bunch of dead forums with no developers and no developers that own an actual i9000?
Ran in plenty of forums that copy-paste xda, don't see the need for another one.
Dead forums??? Captavate is very alive, the Epic just came out, and the Fasinate isnt out yet....you are very naive
The fact that you are here truong to get everyone to join your other forum shows the success of this forum already... Why don't ya suck a hind tit and get lost.
Sent from my GT-I9000M using Tapatalk
Whoa calm down everyone, no need to be brash about this and start telling the OP to 'suck a hind tit'.
What he's trying to say his, user AllGamer proposed that we should merge all sub forums into one, but that's obviously not going to happen, so correct me if i'm wrong, the OP has created a group for ALL Galaxy S user variants to join, and share info, which means we can collectively figure things out etc. I think it's a decent idea, but time will tell.
Stop attacking the OP and get on with it, if you don't want to join, DON'T, if you do, DO, so simple yet some people want to argue. This is a friendly forum, not a *****y one.
MAMBO04 said:
Whoa calm down everyone, no need to be brash about this and start telling the OP to 'suck a hind tit'.
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I do agree stuff like that shouldn't be said. However, this doesn't change the fact that there is reason to be concerned that "whosdaman" is misleading people about the group's "official" status, especially when he is the maintainer. There is nothing official about it, and he is now WELL aware of it, but still hasn't changed this topic..
Also, he still hasn't changed the comment viewing permissions. You still MUST be a member to read any information, which seems to suggest he has a greater interest in boosting numbers than encouraging cooperation.
I think this social group is good for general discussion (well, would be if he opened it up), but central group's aren't really suitable for development, because these phones are slightly different. Until it becomes public though it is a step backwards (particularly long term, because I am unsure if Google indexes sign-up-to-read groups on this forum)
If its not broken, don't fix it.
Ok, is this *normal* that one by one the devs (jac, kk, sombionix and the rest of tw, and now - eugene373) proclaimed, effectively, that are abandoning (at least to a certain degree) xda? Their personal conflicts (which are unlikely our business) aside, is there anything else that feeds this tendency? In particular, are the xda modes doing enough (or anything at all?) to diffuse and perhaps reverse the trend? Or am I wrong to assume that this would be their business? I witnessed that 90% of (sane) xda members are being as supportive as ever to devs. There are, of course, the challenged ones, but it's the internet. So I don't see anything that regular (sane) members did wrong. And yet the facts are... disturbing.
P.S. Oh, and, after a week of admiring 'wannaby modes' nonsense here, do you mind not telling me that this thread doesn't belong to general or is off-topic? The point of this is to discuss if anything can be done to prevent that many see as an unfortunate trend in *vibrant* section.
I don't know about JAC or KK, because they are the older developers who works on the I9000 model before I even get a chance to visit XDA.
I believe that Team Whiskey moved out because they want to have their own support forum, with dedicated Donator Section for their supporters. Also to provide more ROM specific support for their ROMS.
As for Eugene, I am not too sure, but it may be due to people no respecting his work?
P.S. When did Eugene said that he is 'leaving' XDA?
He never said this. But he explicitly said that he is abandoning specific xda threads (which is, obviously, his full right) and will be posting only on his site.
i can understand this. Its starting to turn into a business, if they want to post their work that they put time into on their own website, that is their full right, and it makes sense. And it shouldnt be that big of a deal, its not that hard to make an account on either of their websites to gain access to their forums. So if they want to make their ROM's a little more private, then i give permission haha
While it's unfortunate, it seems pretty necessary to me. It's impossible to continue to have all discussion on a particular ROM in a single thread. It makes it much harder to find bug reports, for example. So having your own forum and website dedicated to your own ROM makes sense.
Just because they're leaving XDA doesn't mean they're gonna stop coding. And all of the devs know quite well that XDA is the best place to inform people about their ROMs.
Oh well I hope team whiskey makes a mobile app for theyre site
Still flashing , thanks to odin
Just for your knowledge..
KK was banned
JAC well know one knows
But just because most of us are opening our own sites doesnt mean we are going to jump away from XDA.
XDA is a great way to get our names out there..
Our personal sites are just so you guys have all our work in one location & can ask more questions or request features there. (Or that is was I do)
Keeping it classy, o yeah.
XDA is the hub... their sites are the gold mines.
Keep supporting the developers as much as you can, and that Vibrant is going to always be in tip-top form.
Master™ said:
Just for your knowledge..
KK was banned
JAC well know one knows
But just because most of us are opening our own sites doesnt mean we are going to jump away from XDA.
XDA is a great way to get our names out there..
Our personal sites are just so you guys have all our work in one location & can ask more questions or request features there. (Or that is was I do)
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Click to collapse
I missed what kk was banned for possibly a little before my time here
Still flashing , thanks to odin
I try to keep the Wiki updated with information. Although it is not mine to house hold so if anyone else want to add their 2 cents to the wiki please do so. Eugene just want to post his stuff in his forum for what the other people mentioned. Which is his full right. And is still going to keep tabs on XDA as it is a good place to get together.
reuthermonkey said:
While it's unfortunate, it seems pretty necessary to me. It's impossible to continue to have all discussion on a particular ROM in a single thread. It makes it much harder to find bug reports, for example. So having your own forum and website dedicated to your own ROM makes sense.
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Click to collapse
Ok, so maybe the xda mods need to show a bit more flexibility to better accommodate devs needs? Check either TW or Eugene's forums. Essentially, they replicate (nearly 1:1) the structure of xda vibrant sections. I understand that devs want more control over their threads and better organization. But it seems to me that it wouldn’t be that hard to implement the same right here:
A) create a separate sticky for each developer’s project
B) give devs certain mod rights within their threads
Again, I am certainly not against personal web sites, etc. And in no way am I trying to critisize the devs here (obviously it's their right to do whatever they feel like doing!). I am just trying to understand if xda is adopting to the situation. Maybe some small changes at xda can help to prevent the further devs fragmentation. I think nobody would want to see xda becoming just a hub for links to personal sites. Discussion, exchange of ideas, healthy competition (ok, this one may need to be put on hold for a while), comparative reviews like the one that swehes is doing are SO MUCH better when devs are actively participating.
EDIT: Actually, I suspect that if devs had a right to edit their own threads, some (if not most) conflicts would have never become public at the first place.
And the thread was closed... (Dissent causes censure).
Fellow Community: Something going arawy in the Samsung I9100 (Galaxy S2) forums.
The purpose of me opening this thread is to ensure community discussion occurs.
With good intentions, our User Experinance Admin @sveitus has sliced apart The Samsung Galaxy S II Android Development, hiving off `the cream` into The Samsung Galaxy S II Original ROM development thread.
The idea being to Quoting (and please read @sveitus's post in case I'm selectively quoting) the explanitory thread
This forum is for ROMs that aren't an original creation by you in terms of the underlying software, meaning, they've been either 1. developed with assistance from a kitchen or are 2. a re-skinning/re-themeing/minor adjustment of a particular ROM developed by someone else.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The Original ROM's are now found within this subforum
Setting aside the lunacy of thinking that anything apart from ASOP and Samsung's stock ROM isn't derived from something else... or the difficulties in determining which belongs in one thread or another (just watch them bouncy from one to another), I find a two things contra XDA ethos.
This subdivision was done without community consultation.
When announced, there was rapid dissent and the response was to close the thread (for heavens sake).
In fairness, to quote @sveitus
P.S. This is a bit of an experiment. Should it make sense, we'll roll it out to other forums on XDA
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, although my concern is that there is no criteria laid down for "success"
I believe this is a reaction, maybe considered, to two things:
I believe that proportion of the community would like to see forums divided (from what I can tell, divided into Kernels, ROMs and Modems), a proportion are comfortable (complacenty abiding with?) the current structure and a proportion who want to differentiate `original` with `derived`. As is also common in politics, the silent majority will be ignored in favour of the loud minority. I suspect that the democratic view is unknown in this instance.
I believe that this split is a knee jerk reaction to an unfortunate incident where someone released a ROM claiming their own work when (to be confirmed?) all bar part of a theme was taken raw from another source uncredited.
Personally speaking, for a mod to close a thread without explaination isn't easily forgiveable.
What say you?
p.s. (edit) We already have different classes of users based on number of postings, etc.
The forums are not going to be divided. What we did with Galaxy S II was just an experiment...an attempt to keep themes/derivative ROMs (that are based on other ROMs) separate from everything else. Never was this about separating "top tier" developers from everyone else.
As we are going to announce today, we're working on a long-term solution for this, through a ROM database.
Thanks for your feedback.
svetius said:
The forums are not going to be divided. What we did with Galaxy S II was just an experiment...an attempt to keep themes/derivative ROMs (that are based on other ROMs) separate from everything else. Never was this about separating "top tier" developers from everyone else.
As we are going to announce today, we're working on a long-term solution for this, through a ROM database.
Thanks for your feedback.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you for the quick response. I guess the division of the Samsung S2 forum was an incredibly short lived experiment and I imagine they are being remerged as I type and that themes can live where always should have in their own `themes and apps` sub forum.
I do understand why it is desirable to identify deriviative ROMs (hint: Look at the HD2 Android Dev forum(s) rules to see a great example of useful identification tags in subjects).
Sending you a pm regarding the closure of the thread (for the purpose of me opening this thread was to offer awareness and give our community a voice.
I'm just a user and I wonder how many other user dont really care where there ROMS have come from and just want a category which just contains ROMS, no sitckies, no dev no "coming" soons, just fully flashable ROMS. Now if you could so this it would make this area much easier to use.
I have to say I just don't get this ROM theft rubbish, Android is supposed to be open source, if you don't want to share your ROM don't post it full stop. If donations are'nt good enough for you then don't post it. If someone uses your work then see it as a compliment and live with it. Adding rules and further layers of complexity to the ROM cooking process is just causing arguments that need not be there. Cooks have to accept that their work is going to used, DEVs also as long as it isn't actually an app.
Now if this attitude puts some people off then the ROMS posted will be fewer in number but populated with those lovingly crafted for the sake of it and not by those who simply want ego boosts to or to generate a profit, this isnt what open source or XDA is supposed to be about...!
discuss..
I think we need to be careful about open. If I was to take the post above, change a couple of words and claim as my own then you would be understandably upset that i plagiarised your work. However, if I reply, building upon your message and credit you then that's a positive thing.
Open source is the same.
With you on the rest of it.
Sent from my GT-I9100 using XDA Premium App
tomj777 said:
I think we need to be careful about open. If I was to take the post above, change a couple of words and claim as my own then you would be understandably upset that i plagiarised your work. However, if I reply, building upon your message and credit you then that's a positive thing.
Open source is the same.
With you on the rest of it.
Sent from my GT-I9100 using XDA Premium App
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Click to collapse
Not at all, I strongly believe open source should be just that and that alone, plagiarism should not even exist on here. There should be no rules for cooking or ingredients at all. If everyone worked this way then there would be no complaints, everyone would just be sharing everything, we may even see better roms even if we do loose a few players.
Best option is no rules, anything goes and rely on people to do the right thing, those that don't will soon come to light and be appropriately chastised I am sure, this should be good enough.
stoolzo said:
...Best option is no rules, anything goes and rely on people to do the right thing, those that don't will soon come to light and be appropriately chastised I am sure, this should be good enough.
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In a perfect world, that would be ideal. Relying on people to do the right thing would unfortunately lead to chaos. Why? Should we get rid of police officers and courts and just rely on people to "do the right thing"? Nice idea, however the world you mention is fantasy.
stoolzo said:
I'm just a user and I wonder how many other user dont really care where there ROMS have come from
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Click to collapse
I for one, also don't care which came from which. Though I understand the devs' who want to protect their fame/donations, which I think the primary reason for these copying disputes.
tomj777 said:
I think we need to be careful about open. If I was to take the post above, change a couple of words and claim as my own then you would be understandably upset that i plagiarised your work. However, if I reply, building upon your message and credit you then that's a positive thing.
Open source is the same.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is true especially if money is involve.
ROM DEV A created a GOOD ROM = donation of ROM DEV A = 100%
ROM DEV B, IMPROVED/CUSTOMIZED ROM OF DEV A = donation of ROM DEV B = xx% = donation of ROM DEV A = 100%-xx%
NOTE: Above is just an example.
I think "orig" ROM devs feels that the donations coming to "derivative" ROM devs should have been theirs.
stoolzo said:
Not at all, I strongly believe open source should be just that and that alone, plagiarism should not even exist on here. There should be no rules for cooking or ingredients at all. If everyone worked this way then there would be no complaints, everyone would just be sharing everything, we may even see better roms even if we do loose a few players.
Best option is no rules, anything goes and rely on people to do the right thing, those that don't will soon come to light and be appropriately chastised I am sure, this should be good enough.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Our society/community is far from the utopic concept that you talk about. I would love nothing more than to not have to enforce any rules in here, trusting that people would just do the right thing, but unfortunately this is far from over. Quite frankly matters got much worse after the introduction of Android. Back when xda was solely focused on Windows Mobile, plagiarism was something that was hardly ever seen around these areas. Everyone had work out in the open, work which they gladly shared with everyone just for the advancement of the platform (and partial resentment against Microsoft ). That work was always credited, any and all help was always acknowledged, and people were all working together towards the same goal. If you want a more utopic XDA, go back 4 years in time and you will find one. Funny enough, it wasn't until Android hit that I learned that this site had moderators. I knew about the administrators but not about moderators... that is how utopic this place was. And if you look at my join date, I have been active here for a very long time.
khein said:
I for one, also don't care which came from which. Though I understand the devs' who want to protect their fame/donations, which I think the primary reason for these copying disputes.
This is true especially if money is involve.
ROM DEV A created a GOOD ROM = donation of ROM DEV A = 100%
ROM DEV B, IMPROVED/CUSTOMIZED ROM OF DEV A = donation of ROM DEV B = xx% = donation of ROM DEV A = 100%-xx%
NOTE: Above is just an example.
I think "orig" ROM devs feels that the donations coming to "derivative" ROM devs should have been theirs.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, you are missing the point completely. In your equation, simply replace the word "donation" with the word "feedback". What is dev B going to do with feedback that was meant to go for dev A? Or better yet, if all that dev B did was throw theme packages together and zipped them into a flashable rom, what can dev B do when feedback comes to him asking him to fix something? Dev A needs these feedback and bug reports to improve his work.
Something I think has been missed from these discussions is...
One of the objectives here is to make it easier for users to finds ROMs that just variants of one they already have; the same underlying code base, but with tweaks to improve the user experience; and ROMs with actual improvements - bug fixes, major improvements, etc.
I'm not trying to make a point here, just illustrate another reason for the changes.
Dave
egzthunder1 said:
Our society/community is far from the utopic concept that you talk about. I would love nothing more than to not have to enforce any rules in here, trusting that people would just do the right thing, but unfortunately this is far from over. Quite frankly matters got much worse after the introduction of Android. Back when xda was solely focused on Windows Mobile, plagiarism was something that was hardly ever seen around these areas. Everyone had work out in the open, work which they gladly shared with everyone just for the advancement of the platform (and partial resentment against Microsoft ). That work was always credited, any and all help was always acknowledged, and people were all working together towards the same goal. If you want a more utopic XDA, go back 4 years in time and you will find one. Funny enough, it wasn't until Android hit that I learned that this site had moderators. I knew about the administrators but not about moderators... that is how utopic this place was. And if you look at my join date, I have been active here for a very long time.
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Click to collapse
The anything goes really can only be the way forward here because what you are are suggesting in any form is a total nightmare for users which completely defeats the object of XDA, remove ease of use and usefulness and you have no XDA and people will start to leave in droves.
If you agree that 4 years ago was far more ideal than it is currently then why aren't you trying to pull things back to where it was then? All you have to do is to post new rules about XDA stepping back on moderation and leaving users to self moderate. Advise that you will still deal with complaints but on a case by case basis by email and not be thread posts, setup and [email protected] or something. Just moderate the legal and unpleasant stuff.
yes it would be nice to have a one fits all system were everyone would receive the exact amount praise or donations for the work done, in proportion to what effort was put in, this WILL NEVER HAPPEN, if you keep loading layer up layer of complexity on top then you will just break it altogether, plus when something is open source nobody has the right to anything, praise, donations, nothing, open source is about good will, not profit, not fame or fortune. I think XDA allows themselves to get to mixed up in this.
Sometimes you just got to sit back and say F*ck it and let things ride.
DaveShaw said:
Something I think has been missed from these discussions is...
One of the objectives here is to make it easier for users to finds ROMs that just variants of one they already have; the same underlying code base, but with tweaks to improve the user experience; and ROMs with actual improvements - bug fixes, major improvements, etc.
I'm not trying to make a point here, just illustrate another reason for the changes.
Dave
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I see what you were trying to do but it was a huge fail, it was a nice thought but its better just to shove all the ROMS together and let people try them as just because a ROM says it has this, that or the other it doesn't mean it will work as reported and it may have something the flasher wont like. All XDA needs to do is present the information clearly and leave the user to make up their own mind.
I see no need to break down the subs further other than to put ROMS in their own folder, that would definitely make things easier as the current ROM/DEV folder is a total mess.
egzthunder1 said:
No, you are missing the point completely. In your equation, simply replace the word "donation" with the word "feedback". What is dev B going to do with feedback that was meant to go for dev A? Or better yet, if all that dev B did was throw theme packages together and zipped them into a flashable rom, what can dev B do when feedback comes to him asking him to fix something? Dev A needs these feedback and bug reports to improve his work.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have yet to experience what your talking about. ROM B has a problem? Moved to ROM A..
Derived ROM Dev tells "ORIG" ROM Dev an issue? "ORIG" ROM Dev replies that his/her ROM users doesn't report issues, and tells he/she(derived ROM dev) must have done something wrong.
That is normally what happens, because most bugs/issues are found by the "ORIG" rom users.
What if I hosted a copy/modified/derived version of the XDA forums. And my so-called derived XDA forum managed to gain some fame/high activity, even managed to catch up with xda's status/market share. Then one day, a major issue occured, and I couldn't fix it as the problem seems to come from the "ORIG" xda source BUT the "ORIG" xda forum doesn't have this problem. Do you think the XDA admin, would even bother to help me fix my derived XDA forum seeing that his "ORIG" forum could replicate the problem?
stoolzo said:
The anything goes really can only be the way forward here because what you are are suggesting in any form is a total nightmare for users which completely defeats the object of XDA, remove ease of use and usefulness and you have no XDA and people will start to leave in droves.
If you agree that 4 years ago was far more ideal than it is currently then why aren't you trying to pull things back to where it was then? All you have to do is to post new rules about XDA stepping back on moderation and leaving users to self moderate. Advise that you will still deal with complaints but on a case by case basis by email and not be thread posts, setup and [email protected] or something. Just moderate the legal and unpleasant stuff.
yes it would be nice to have a one fits all system were everyone would receive the exact amount praise or donations for the work done, in proportion to what effort was put in, this WILL NEVER HAPPEN, if you keep loading layer up layer of complexity on top then you will just break it altogether, plus when something is open source nobody has the right to anything, praise, donations, nothing, open source is about good will, not profit, not fame or fortune. I think XDA allows themselves to get to mixed up in this.
Sometimes you just got to sit back and say F*ck it and let things ride.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Users did not self moderate 4+ years ago.... there was less need for moderation. You didn't see constant intervention by mods, not because the rules were not in place or because the mods were not around, but rather because there was no drama in the titanic proportions that we see it daily. It is very easy to speak from the regular member's stand point, but the amount of stuff that we (mods and admins) see going through this site day in and day out since the smartphone market exploded would make you want to jump out of a window!
You are suggesting, in essence, that we do away with our rules and let people "do the right thing." Why? Our rules have been in place since early 2003 when the site was founded. For over 5 years, these rules have made xda-developers the site that many regard today as the largest developer community on the web.
You speak of the objective of XDA, what do you think this is? Do you know what the true mission of this site is? XDA is a development and hacking community. It isn't end users that make this community, it is developers, hackers, and enthusiast that are the back-bone of this site. Do you want to know what XDA truly is about?
Read this
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=2031989&postcount=45
I think what a lot of people forget is that this is not a "make my phone neat & kewl" place.
As implied by the name this is technically a Developers forum/community.
Now what does that mean? Well first off it means that there is an expectation that if you are here then you want to customize your device but rather than just installing something that someone packaged you want to understand how it works and maybe even enhance it yourself.
When I first came here with a Blue Angel it was a different environment. PDA Phones were not embraced by the general public because of the expense and complexity (I paid over $400 for my BA). A $400 phone 4 years ago was expensive, today the Tilt is $300 after rebates but with inflation & the rise in the cost of other devices and the fact that there are other sources out there giving them away for $150 our neat bit of kit has become popular with mainstream users.
Now we have a flood of new users who are asking not "How can I do this myself" but more like "Give me the quick fix" without caring to understand the process. See if you read the threads then you get to experience the learning process, you see how the issues were investigated and confirmed. Then you get to watch the different attempts at resolution and learn why some failed while others worked. That is called Development.
The NooB backlash is coming from users who have walked in the development shoes and is directed mainly at those who don't care for the journey but just want the end result or destination.
As a Development Forum we are just as much (if not more) about the journey. I've read so many comments like "I don't have time to read all of the threads" or "I don't care how it works, just that it does". These very statements are contrary to the heart & soul of XDA-Devs and that is why the backlash is so strong.
Let me be very clear on this: IF YOU DON'T CARE ABOUT UNDERSTANDING THE JOURNEY THEN YOU PROBABLY SHOULDN'T BE HERE IN THE FIRST PLACE.
XDA-Devs is about developers & hackers helping each other and working together to get the most out of our devices by understanding them better than most.
XDA-Devs is not about helping everyone who wants a "Kewl bit of kit" make their phone better than the guy next to him.
Now do we go kicking users off who never contribute anything, NO. We tolerate it to an extent. Where the toleration ends is when these users start diluting the usefulness of the forum by repeating the same questions over and over again.
You ask us to understand your position. Well if you want to benefit from our experience and time then I think it is only fair that you understand our position.
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This is the true ethos of XDA. This is what our community and founding members believed and still do regarding how our site should work and what our members should do to "fit" here.
Hi, firstly I am not talking about XDA as a whole, I fully understand the need for general forum rules and regs, I am simply talking here about cooking for android, I am not trying to tell you how to run your shop. Cooking for Android is different I think as Android is supposed to open source, on one hand people should not be expecting anything in return for the work but on the other it is implied that they will as this is a good will based forum, it should remain that way (again for android only I cannot speak for other platforms)
I am simply of the opinion, regarding cooking and only cooking that trying to police this is impossible,
I certainly understand how frustrating it can be for genuine devs and people who put a lot of effort into customising a ROM but it is just impossible to weed out the good from the bad as you have clearly found, plenty has already been said on this so I dont really need to say any more.
Its is certainly true that XDA has changed, its grown into something completely different, perhaps its time for major rethink and not just sticking plasters
Have you thought about setting up a tier forum system?.
Tier one: would be invite only by MODs, this would be a completely seperate forum, laid out in the same way but on a different URL maybe. This would be mainly for devs and cooks, people on here could create, view and edits posts on here and also on the standard main forum as it is now.
Tier two: would be invite only or based on numbers of posts and / or numbers of thankyou's perhaps. (from different users). You would be able to view tier 1 but not post. YOu would be able to view and post the standard forum.
tier three: no access to view tier one, can edit and post on the main standard forum only much like a user can a the moment.
Tier 4: read only access to main form (until they join)
People on Tier 1 would then be able to disucss and share stuff without the background hum of zillions of noob questions and posts, this would also be a lot more decure as invite only would keep out the riff raff.
Tier two people would then have an incentive to contribute more to dev and so reach tier 1 status. You could also use this system as a punishment, people cold be denied access to higher levels if they infringe on rules.
Sounds a little eliteist doesnt it?, well it is a little but I probably wont ever make tier one but can understand the need for something like this.
khein said:
I have yet to experience what your talking about. ROM B has a problem? Moved to ROM A..
Derived ROM Dev tells "ORIG" ROM Dev an issue? "ORIG" ROM Dev replies that his/her ROM users doesn't report issues, and tells he/she(derived ROM dev) must have done something wrong.
That is normally what happens, because most bugs/issues are found by the "ORIG" rom users.
What if I hosted a copy/modified/derived version of the XDA forums. And my so-called derived XDA forum managed to gain some fame/high activity, even managed to catch up with xda's status/market share. Then one day, a major issue occured, and I couldn't fix it as the problem seems to come from the "ORIG" xda source BUT the "ORIG" xda forum doesn't have this problem. Do you think the XDA admin, would even bother to help me fix my derived XDA forum seeing that his "ORIG" forum could replicate the problem?
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Tbh I think you miss the point. We aren't saying derivative roms aren't important. Of course they are. I even use them occasionally myself. If I'm having an issue with a rom I'm using, of course I will try and help fix the bug. What we are trying to do is aid developers by splitting the forums up into two clear sections
stoolzo said:
I see what you were trying to do but it was a huge fail, it was a nice thought but its better just to shove all the ROMS together and let people try them as just because a ROM says it has this, that or the other it doesn't mean it will work as reported and it may have something the flasher wont like. All XDA needs to do is present the information clearly and leave the user to make up their own mind.
I see no need to break down the subs further other than to put ROMS in their own folder, that would definitely make things easier as the current ROM/DEV folder is a total mess.
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That wasn't the only reason you know. Just one of the consequences of the new idea that seems to have been overlooked thus far.
stoolzo said:
Hi, firstly I am not talking about XDA as a whole, I fully understand the need for general forum rules and regs, I am simply talking here about cooking for android, I am not trying to tell you how to run your shop. Cooking for Android is different I think as Android is supposed to open source, on one hand people should not be expecting anything in return for the work but on the other it is implied that they will as this is a good will based forum, it should remain that way (again for android only I cannot speak for other platforms)
I am simply of the opinion, regarding cooking and only cooking that trying to police this is impossible,
I certainly understand how frustrating it can be for genuine devs and people who put a lot of effort into customising a ROM but it is just impossible to weed out the good from the bad as you have clearly found, plenty has already been said on this so I dont really need to say any more.
Its is certainly true that XDA has changed, its grown into something completely different, perhaps its time for major rethink and not just sticking plasters
Have you thought about setting up a tier forum system?.
Tier one: would be invite only by MODs, this would be a completely seperate forum, laid out in the same way but on a different URL maybe. This would be mainly for devs and cooks, people on here could create, view and edits posts on here and also on the standard main forum as it is now.
Tier two: would be invite only or based on numbers of posts and / or numbers of thankyou's perhaps. (from different users). You would be able to view tier 1 but not post. YOu would be able to view and post the standard forum.
tier three: no access to view tier one, can edit and post on the main standard forum only much like a user can a the moment.
Tier 4: read only access to main form (until they join)
People on Tier 1 would then be able to disucss and share stuff without the background hum of zillions of noob questions and posts, this would also be a lot more decure as invite only would keep out the riff raff.
Tier two people would then have an incentive to contribute more to dev and so reach tier 1 status. You could also use this system as a punishment, people cold be denied access to higher levels if they infringe on rules.
Sounds a little eliteist doesnt it?, well it is a little but I probably wont ever make tier one but can understand the need for something like this.
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Hey,
Tier 1 does sorta exist It's the recognized developer program, which has an area for this.
If I'm honest, what you describe sounds very much like the new system, with a "big stuff" section (the rec dev area), then a tier 2 area, where the "original" stuff goes, and a tier 3 area for the remainder?
well, not really, my way does not seeks to discourage people by singling out their work, however apparently trivial it may appear to be inferior to others - openly...
My idea was really about giving the more technical / coding minded people more of a say in how they work, somewhere more quiet to share and discuss stuff. If you say this already exists then why don't you extend it to encompass the more favoured cooks?, the more stuff worked on and completed at this level will leave less to fight over at my level.
I still think you should put all the ROMS back together in one category and kick out all the other dev stuff into to its own, if only to help us lowly users find out next ROM more easily, don't forget about us
Sorry if this is completely irrelevant in every way shape and form, but I'm from a community of people who own Samsung Wave smart phones who would really like to own an Android port due to the horrendous support for Bada by Samsung and complete and total lack of applications.
We have a working Froyo 2.2 port on the device which many have copied to their phones with success. A few developers have worked on it, Olek_k from XDA was working on it, passed it over to Rebellos. However, we currently have no working modem, camera or battery sensor and they are having trouble with Kernel development. Rebellos says that he thinks he's collected enough info to write a modem driver, but he is having problems with the kernel and the project has stalled. We've seen the amazing progress that has been made with this project, being passed down from person to person and there is a huge community of people who would like to experience android on their Bada handsets. I am no developer myself and a lot of us aren't, but the project has stalled and it'd be a real shame for so much progress to be lost. Do you know of anyone or are you yourself a developer of HD2 Android? All of us at badaforums.net and those in the Bada section at XDA are eager to see progress on the project. We do have developers, but they need aid in an area that they do not know well.
Please don't take this as a demanding request, I'm simply asking if you know of anyone who could help compile an android kernel (I'm not sure of the detail you'd have to ask the developers themselves) with the help of the current devs. We'd be hugely greatful if you could co-operate and help us out, because I know many who would absolutely adore android on their crippled Wave smartphones.
I sent a message similar to this to the admin of the Android ROMs site (http://android.hd2roms.com/) to see if they had any ideas about someone who could help. If you didn't know already, the wave is only available outside of the US, I don't know if anyone in the US can help with the development without the phone, you'd have to ask Rebellos or one of the other devs from the topic.
Below are some links where the discussions are;
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1118436&page=260
http://www.badaforums.net/forums/android-porting/porting-android-s8500-wave-t5464.html
I am a noob at XDA and I haven't tried the port myself as of yet, but I love my Wave and no one has made the jump to reach to the awesome HD2 porting community yet, so I thought I'd try.
Please contact me in this topic, via PM, or contact Rebellos or any of the other developers in the topic if you, or someone you know can help out.
Thanks very much, again, sorry if this is in the wrong place.
- Ross
+1 as a HD2 and Wave user. Help us please!
Damn, no one else has noticed the post :/
Oh well, I'll be patient and just hope that people aren't ignoring the post lol.
Pins, do you know of someone who was at the head of the project? I'm pretty clueless, I'll do some digging.
They will, just give them time.
You might want to consider getting the XDA admin's incharge of the news, to publish this, since this is really going to go un-noticed by the majority of developers. Some good might come out of it. All the best. I remembered waiting (and I am sure many other HD2 users too) for the Android port and then WP7 port for HD2... it seemed like a long wait, but eventually it is done
sikodemon said:
They will, just give them time.
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Yeah man, thanks. I was just being impatient. Really don't want to come off as an arsehole because a lot of people in the bada-android forum got pissed due to trolls, when there are, infact a lot of people who are nice and genuine who are eager to see the port.
And I will have a look to see if I can do that erlern, but do you think they will really listen to someone with like, under 10 posts? xD I mean, they might, but however funny that noob video was, they don't seem to be particularly keen on them. We'll see.
erlern is right maybe its better to write the admins at news
Hi rayze! Erlern is right come to think of it, the admins handling the news section can post about this on the front page.
Also on the title of the post amend it to this "Help needed to build drivers into kernel" then maybe the developers of this thread may pay more attention too.
Also post this on the android development thread of HD2 since this is the Q&A section which has more to do with everyday use of the hd2.
bong4316 said:
Hi rayze! Erlern is right come to think of it, the admins handling the news section can post about this on the front page.
Also on the title of the post amend it to this "Help needed to build drivers into kernel" then maybe the developers of this thread may pay more attention too.
Also post this on the android development thread of HD2 since this is the Q&A section which has more to do with everyday use of the hd2.
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Advice taken my friend, will do all of that.
Have sent a request for the appeal to be posted in the news.
the ball seems to be rolling again :-D
sikodemon said:
the ball seems to be rolling again :-D
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Well someone needed to try to get people's attention
No one else seemed to bother doing it, so I thought, why not. Don't think I've posted in HD2 main yet, but might have. Struggling to remember really.
Oh yeah, no I didn't because I need more posts xD I only have 7 lol.
Unfortunately us Wave modders are probably one of the smallest communities in this entire forum, we might get noticed, but it's getting people to help that will be the highest hurdle. It's a shame really, you'd expect many more people to buy this phone when you can pick it up now at cpw for £99.
I really respect how those developers devote so much time on making better software for our phones, and in most cases they just want a thank you at the end.
I am so happy to see this at the front page of XDA!
http://www.xda-developers.com/android/help-get-android-fully-working-on-samsungs-bada-devices/
Really hope to see Android on Waves! Glad to have contributed in a small way Keep the faith guys!
erlern said:
I am so happy to see this at the front page of XDA!
http://www.xda-developers.com/android/help-get-android-fully-working-on-samsungs-bada-devices/
Really hope to see Android on Waves! Glad to have contributed in a small way Keep the faith guys!
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Thanks for telling me man!
Spreading the news at Badaforums!
I will also now make a post in the main HD2 development section.