Related
I have found a 3000 mAh battery on eBay for around $100 with shipping, and since I'm pretty tired of the short battery life I'm considering it. I was so embarassed when the family went skiing yesterday! My kids have smartphones (Qtek 8030 & 9100 - I keep the family on intelligent phones, my wife has a Qtek 8500 Star Trek) and they had MP3's playing all day in the slopes with only one of the three battery level stripes dissappearing, while I had to put my Atom in the car and charge it after only three hours, when it was down to less than 15 %! Which is why I'm considering either an expensive 3000 mAh or one of those cheap USB chargers where you just put in a regular AA (or was it AAA?) battery and hook it up to the mini USB port. So has anybody tried either of them?
The battery-based chargers work, there are AA and AAA models 'round here (>1 battery each) - but I haven't tried it on the Atom yet. Be aware that the Atom has a charger protection mechanism that refuses to let the battery trickle charge if it doesn't provide a rated amount of juice (this is not mentioned in the O2 site, but it's there. It's the reason why chargers that normally work on the Mini won't work on the Atom).
Personally, I'd rather get a charger that works practically everywhere than to grab an extended battery.
(Have you considered those new fangled solar powered chargers? Some of them contain internal batteries that store energy, even under artificial light - and it is this battery that is used to charge your device. This could be a better idea, but be sure to check if it works on your device.)
PS: a PDA eats battery like no tomorrow because it usually uses better processors and interfaces - the XScale on ours is the eater here. Smartphones run on a lower rated processor/card slots, and don't have touch sense screens, and thus can last for much longer. If you really need your PDA to last, well, forever - you might want to consider an extended battery or one of the CPU scaler programs.
Thanks! I forgot to say that I ate the battery with the CPU at 208 mHz (with XCpuScalar)... Anyway, I have two of those AA-chargers on the way, I'm glad they work! At home I have GP PowerBank chargers and a bunch of rechargable batteries which I will use for this. With any luck a few of those will last me all day on skis!
And I didn't know about that protection mechanism in the Atom, I have been wondering why it's so extremely picky when it comes to charging from USB cables and stuff like that.
And I hadn'd even heard about the solar charging option, but I see there are a bunch of those on eBay. They look pretty cool, but unfortunately when I'm in the sun I seldom stand still long enough to put the charger and the phone anywhere for charging. If there was an affordable vest or jacket for that, though...
I think the O2's charger protection mechanisms were discussed here:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=276400
Methinks Quanta borrowed something from Motorola.
The solar charger, btw, works under incandescent light as well (I have one - useful in a hotel room where you don't have a plug but you have access to a desktop lamp). More expensive models can supposedly work under flourescent light, but I'm a cheapskate. They work by having an internal LiON themselves, which is trickle charged by solar/incandescent power - and then the battery itself is the one that charges your PDA's battery. Many different types exist, but most of them have a 1000-3000mah internal reservoir, and the better ones have different voltage settings for differenet devices.
Yeah, but the problem is that they're too big for my jacket pockets, so they won't help me skiing.
Well, that didn't really work. So I have decided to go for quantity instead of quality: Ordering three batteries, one with a charger that charges it ouside of the phone as well as charges the phone. All in all around 40 dollars, which gives me four batteries to play with. I ain't gonna use up my phone next time I'm in the slopes! And I think the same batteries can be used on my next phone, the Atom Life. It's got a larger capacity battery, but it looks like it's the same physical shape. Then again I may be wrong, but at least I will have no problems on those boat trips this summer!
And that worked! Not to mention that the original battery has to be total an utter crap! On these new batteries I had more than twice the battery time I had on the original. Of course it's been used for about two years, but still it shouldn't be that bad! I have five year old PPCs that hasn't changed that much in battery time. Anyway, with three new batteries and the old one I can keep going for a looong time!
Mastiff said:
And that worked! Not to mention that the original battery has to be total an utter crap! On these new batteries I had more than twice the battery time I had on the original. Of course it's been used for about two years, but still it shouldn't be that bad! I have five year old PPCs that hasn't changed that much in battery time. Anyway, with three new batteries and the old one I can keep going for a looong time!
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Click to collapse
bro did u tryed u,r AAA batery charger for Aom Life? i also bought a AAA battery charger fro my first Atom but not working after that tryed for my Atom Exec saem now going to check on my Atom Life,, thought to ask u befor check it.......
Some types works, some don't. It seems like only the black type work,while the shiny metallic one doesn't.
I have been pondering...
Our phone is awesome in every aspect.... battery life is between 6 hrs ~ 7 hrs depending usage...
However... charging the battery seems to take FOREVER !!!!!!!!
it takes like 5+ hours to charge completely
if you want to charge it faster, wireless, phone, screen, etc needs to be off.
so that's the only inconvenient thing i found about our phone.
good thing is i can plug it in anywhere it has USB ports, including my car.
Make sure you use the correct charger. Many chargers that use the same socket do not charge at the same rate as the correct one due to internal wiring - I am not electrician but found this out the hard way.
Many USB/car chargers do not provide sufficient charge to even keep up with Athena power use.
AllGamer said:
I have been pondering...
Our phone is awesome in every aspect.... battery life is between 6 hrs ~ 7 hrs depending usage...
However... charging the battery seems to take FOREVER !!!!!!!!
it takes like 5+ hours to charge completely
if you want to charge it faster, wireless, phone, screen, etc needs to be off.
so that's the only inconvenient thing i found about our phone.
good thing is i can plug it in anywhere it has USB ports, including my car.
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Click to collapse
The SIZE matters... also in charging.
May be I am wrong, other in this forum are better than me in physic
but
1) The power usage when connected via activesync, having screen backlight 50%, Big HTC HOME is around 200/300 mA/h.
2) The battery is 2200 mA,
3)if you charge it with a 500 mA/h charger... 500-250=250 mA/h.... 9 ours to have a full 2200 mA charge,
Athena have also XSCALE CPU (clock increasing during heavvy usage) and the power usage could increase very quickly (I have seen some 1000 mA/h peak) due to heavvy memory and CPU usage, or microdrive access
Looking at DIVX movies, full screen, USB 1.0 connected... the power DECREASES (slowly)!
And I would like to add, that after several tests with different chargers, no doubt that using HTC chargers makes a big difference, specially the car charger.
In the case of car charger, using a normal one ( output 5V 500mA ) I made a trip of 300Km and the power level went down from 100% to 70% using TomTom.
And with the HTC charger ( 5V 2A ) leaving home with 50% and arriving the same destination with 100%, again using TomTom.
I'm assuming that using other GPS software the results will be equal.
I used car chargers with 500mA, 800mA and also 1A and I tought that the results should be different but in fact it seems to me that one thing is what the charger "says" and another thing is what can "give".
hope this helps.
poppey said:
.. it seems to me that one thing is what the charger "says" and another thing is what can "give".
hope this helps.
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Click to collapse
Yes, as I said it is a hard-wire issue
Yup, 2 pins need to be connected together before the Athena will go into "fast charge mode". You could hook up a 1000 amp bench power supply but still discharge your battery with GPS active - until you short the 2 pins. Don't remember which ones, its been discussed before on this board.
very insteresting...
yes i'm using the USB 500ma charger, just because past experiences has kind of though me that charging electronics with too much AMP it can burn it.
but it seems like the ATHENA can take that, since you have been using it.
I guess i'll shop around for a more powerful charger.
poppey said:
And I would like to add, that after several tests with different chargers, no doubt that using HTC chargers makes a big difference, specially the car charger.
In the case of car charger, using a normal one ( output 5V 500mA ) I made a trip of 300Km and the power level went down from 100% to 70% using TomTom.
And with the HTC charger ( 5V 2A ) leaving home with 50% and arriving the same destination with 100%, again using TomTom.
I'm assuming that using other GPS software the results will be equal.
I used car chargers with 500mA, 800mA and also 1A and I tought that the results should be different but in fact it seems to me that one thing is what the charger "says" and another thing is what can "give".
hope this helps.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
AllGamer said:
charging electronics with too much AMP it can burn it.
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Click to collapse
Not true. Electronics is in many ways like the water system, with the water pressure equal to volts, and the gallons per minute equal to amps. However, there's one key difference - electronics will only use as much as its needs (and no more). Not like trying to get a drink from a high-pressure fire hose where you'll hurt yourself trying.
A 60 watt light bulb will only draw 60 watts and will not blow up even though it could draw many thousands of watts before the circuit breaker blew.
techntrek said:
Yup, 2 pins need to be connected together before the Athena will go into "fast charge mode". You could hook up a 1000 amp bench power supply but still discharge your battery with GPS active - until you short the 2 pins. Don't remember which ones, its been discussed before on this board.
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Click to collapse
This seems to do the trick with my Ameo.
http://www.expansys.com/d.aspx?i=154871
Hello,
i ve been searching for a way to extend the autonomy on the a501.
do you think i can use a cheap 12V lithium battery to charge it or take over when the internal battery is depleted ?
i m not very knowledgeable in electronics, i wouldnt want to damage the internal battery.
there seem to be very few commercial products that would fit this tablet and i m not really interested. i dont have 50$ for a +2h battery life --;
i was thinking of buying a 12V 5000mAh something battery from china and solder the appropriate DC connector on it, but im wondering if there are issues like, the Current needs to be stable at 1,5A or i might reduce the internal battery durability, things like that.
can anyone answer that ?
It's more complicated than that. The power supply probably has a circuit to regulate the flow of energy to the tablet, perhaps the tablet itself also has a circuit that works together, I don't know.
Short answer: buy a second power adapter
There are backup battery/chargers. Scosche goBAT for example.
Just Google around to find the best fit for you.
GullyFoyle said:
There are backup battery/chargers. Scosche goBAT for example.
Just Google around to find the best fit for you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How would that work? Does the goBAT include a charging tip compatible with the A500?
Hello,
thanks for dropping by
its not helping really this is bs
power cat you say "probably" regulates the current. yes that is what i wrote that is what i hoped someone would clear up for me. i dont see how buying another wall charger is going to help me extend the tablet autonomy i would just as well carry the original one around.
gullyfoyle same sideways reading of the OP i would not pay 80$ for a marketed battery/charger.
i hope there are still people out there who can give an educated answer :/
this guy for example http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LqxhEkDGkbg he says he learned it the hard way (bricked his phone?) because he put 4x(1.5V?) batteries to charge his iphone without the resistors (to get the voltage from 6V down to 5V?)
so there again, can there be issues with the discharge current rate or is it something about lithium batteries behaving differently from alkaline ones ?
i think i ll go ahead and try anyway. worst case scenario the battery will just sit there not putting out anything.
Why wouldn't you pay $80 for a backup battery charger. It was just an example. I'm sure you can find one cheaper after Black Friday, or even with a bit of Googlefu.
We aren't talking about normal chargers but portable charge devices.
http://www.scosche.com/consumer-tech/product/2073
For anyone in need of extra power, the goBAT II provides an innovative solution to the dreaded ‘low battery’ warning. The goBAT II is a powerful backup battery and dual port charger for your mobile devices. The internal 5000mAh ion battery will keep your devices going long after they normally would.
Advantages and Applications
A drained iPhone 4 can be charged 2.6 times with a fully charged goBAT II. An iPad can be charged up to 55% of full charge. This is the ideal battery for long commutes, airport travel and camping.
The goBAT II provides 2 USB charging ports that can be used at the same time. A 2.1 Amp port gives you the ability to charge mobile devices including tablets (iPad and Samsung Galaxy Tab). An additional 1.0 Amp port lets you charge your additional devices (iPhone, iPod, etc.).
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Click to collapse
Remember this is JUST AN EXAMPLE. The idea is to show these devices exist and are available for purchase.
http://www.engadget.com/2011/02/23/scosches-gobat-ii-portable-battery-pack-handles-two-usb-devices/
We'll just keep it real simple for you: the object you're looking at above is the Revive II charger, but slimmer, and with a rechargeable battery pack thrown in rather than a wall / cigarette adapter. Got it? Good. The goBAT II contains a 5000mAh rechargeable lithium ion battery, and it offers a pair of USB ports for charging. One's a 10-watt (2.1 Amp) port capable of handling high-maintenance devices like Apple's iPad, while the other is a more conventional 5-watt (1 Amp) socket. Scosche is also throwing in a USB adapter for the Galaxy Tab, theoretically letting those with divided households charge both an iOS and Android tablet at the same time. Brain melting, we know. It also works with the company's Revive charging app, which indicates how long a device will take to charge on any of Scosche's chargers and can also be configured to send an email notification once a device has been fully charged. She's all yours down at the source link for $89.99
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Click to collapse
See, others deem it "BRAIN MELTING".
And the cost of that type of thrill is reasonable, for the job it does.
But I can understand how someone would encourage another person to experiment with the guts of electronics they don't fully understand. Screw it up and you can always buy a new one.
Then again, you could buy three or four Gobats and save all the fuss and bother.
mr.bryce said:
Hello,
thanks for dropping by
its not helping really this is bs
power cat you say "probably" regulates the current. yes that is what i wrote that is what i hoped someone would clear up for me. i dont see how buying another wall charger is going to help me extend the tablet autonomy i would just as well carry the original one around.
gullyfoyle same sideways reading of the OP i would not pay 80$ for a marketed battery/charger.
i hope there are still people out there who can give an educated answer :/
this guy for example http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LqxhEkDGkbg he says he learned it the hard way (bricked his phone?) because he put 4x(1.5V?) batteries to charge his iphone without the resistors (to get the voltage from 6V down to 5V?)
so there again, can there be issues with the discharge current rate or is it something about lithium batteries behaving differently from alkaline ones ?
i think i ll go ahead and try anyway. worst case scenario the battery will just sit there not putting out anything.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You will break your tablet.
The charger contains a complex integrated circuit. Sticking on a few resistors isn't gonna do ****.
Look at this for example, a simple wind generator has a complex charging circuit to regulare all the power:
http://www.instructables.com/id/How...nd-turbine/step8/Build-the-charge-controller/
Just google "how to make a charge controller" it's really not as simple as you think.
Quote from the site:
The general principal behind the controller is that it monitors the voltage of the battery(s) in your system and either sends power from the turbine into the batteries to recharge them, or dumps the power from the turbine into a secondary load if the batteries are fully charged (to prevent over-charging and destroying the batteries).
ok thanks ^^
now i understand that part
Short answer: buy a second power adapter
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
you are saying the overcharge controller (and other safety features) are all in the wall charger and are not integrated in the tablet.
so if i really really wanted to try i could plug any battery between 12 and 24V to this little guy couldnt i ?
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/220826123824#ht_3149wt_1163
As far as I know...as long as the voltage is correct (eg 12 volts) and the power adapter can produce the required amperage (1.5A) then the tablet will only take the current it can use.
So even if the power adapter is capable of producing 10A say, it doesn't mean it's forcing the 10A onto whatever is connected to it. If you use 1.5A (and if there was a way to connect multiple devices to it) you would still have 8.5A of current you could still take.
Oh the charge regulator would not be in the power adapter, that would be a very stupid design. It would be in the tablet it self to regulate how much charge it requires. I don't know of any power adapter that takes feedback from what it's charging to regulate the current.
It's the same with laptops, that's why you can buy universal laptop chargers when the one you have breaks, you just need to make sure it can supply enough amperage to power your device.
The power adapter is just a simple device that converts 110-240v 50/60hz voltage to 12v and upto whatever amperage it is designed for.
Power plugs in the house are designed at 110-240v to a maximum of 2400W (so ~20a for 110v and 10a for 240v) do you think whatever you plug into it uses up 2400W of electricity at once? No, it just takes what it is required (amperage), that's why you can plug a power strip with like 2-10 additional plugs without any problems unless if try to take more than 2400W in total.
Basic high school physics should of taught people this.
first sensible answer i get thank you daemos i m just not gonna take any chances considering the lithium technology and the fact they could use a "stupid design" for shorter gadget lifespan. if anyone has ever modded a car charger i d love to read about it.
mr.bryce said:
first sensible answer i get thank you daemos i m just not gonna take any chances considering the lithium technology and the fact they could use a "stupid design" for shorter gadget lifespan. if anyone has ever modded a car charger i d love to read about it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lithium ion batteries must be charged at a very specific voltage. So all charging regulation mechanisms would need to be inside the tablet.
I'm pretty sure the ones inside the tablet are definately below 12V so anyone thinking that the AC adapter has any fancy mechanisms to detect feedback, and regulate charge and control the voltage given to the Li-ion cells is incorrect.
Is it safe to use one of THESE to charge or run the tablet?
They also have a 6800mAh ver.
WOW YOU MEN Complicate everything
SIMPLE EASY .. Look at the output voltage of the the power brick for the iconia.. the part that you plug into the wall..
got something that OUTPUTS 12V AT 1.5 AMPS and you are done.. the Li Batteries as in all LI BATTERIES HAVE THERE OWN charging regulators in them.
The reason for this is because if a Battery is drained to a low state it will GET HOT AND OVERHEAT.. NI-CD Batteries can take and handle this heat.. Li batteries become a mini bomb at these temps.. So the are self regulating.. This can be proven by getting a cordless drill hold the shaft from running.. the drill will heat up the battery the device will STOP FUNCTIONING.. Remove the battery and put it back in . it will work again..
Now with that said.. most Li devices say make sure you have 20% or more battery life before flashing and so on.. This is because the DEVICE WILL NOT RUN On the power port. the port only connects to the battery. and in some cases the display lighting.. My cell is this way. if i run the battery until its dead or using gps on it. it will drain the battery faster then it can charge . causing it to not work until you charge it for 5 minutes or so.. this would assume that using a external battery to charge it .. the external batteries themselves would need to be more then 12 volts and atleast double the amps.. then regulated to the 12v 1.5 amps . think of this like pooring water thru a funnel.. to maintain the 12v 1.5 amps. You can test my theory by taking the battery out of your cell phone and trying to run it just on the power adaptor only.. I KNOW MINE WILL NOT RUN.. however if it has older battery technology it will..
Hello!
Just curious if there is an issue with using my new Nexus 10 2A charger with other phones, such as my HTC Sensation or Blackberry Torch?
The Sensation uses a 1A charger, but I assume the phones are smart enough to only draw the current necessary, so they won't be damaged by drawing too much?
I'd like to just use the Nexus 10 charger and not have to carry other ones.
yes it is fine
Cool thanks
EniGmA1987 said:
yes it is fine
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Click to collapse
I heard though that
*first it creates unnecessary heat because the current drawn by circuitry on lower amperage device has to be dissipated as heat
*second, this is less science/engineering but someone said that the specific pins are created by companies and the pins themselves can vary in terms of impedance, thus change the overall circuitry of the device in the long run
*third Li-Ion can pull more current than the default charger and it tends to do so to charge faster, albeit at the cost of the battery overall life deteriorates because higher charging rates also leads to faster breakdown of cells?
I wish I had sources, but this is what I pulled off the Internet when I was younger... can you please assist and advise? Would greatly appreciate (even if we start new thread from this
nutnub said:
I heard though that
*first it creates unnecessary heat because the current drawn by circuitry on lower amperage device has to be dissipated as heat
*second, this is less science/engineering but someone said that the specific pins are created by companies and the pins themselves can vary in terms of impedance, thus change the overall circuitry of the device in the long run
*third Li-Ion can pull more current than the default charger and it tends to do so to charge faster, albeit at the cost of the battery overall life deteriorates because higher charging rates also leads to faster breakdown of cells?
I wish I had sources, but this is what I pulled off the Internet when I was younger... can you please assist and advise? Would greatly appreciate (even if we start new thread from this
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wish I knew for sure too. REally I don't care a lot about my HTC Sensation as I plan on getting a Nexus 4 LTE when it eventually comes out. Hopefully those come with 2A chargers!
Sure I could get a Nexus 4 and use LTE right now on Bell, but I'd rather wait for an official one.
nutnub said:
I heard though that
*first it creates unnecessary heat because the current drawn by circuitry on lower amperage device has to be dissipated as heat
*second, this is less science/engineering but someone said that the specific pins are created by companies and the pins themselves can vary in terms of impedance, thus change the overall circuitry of the device in the long run
*third Li-Ion can pull more current than the default charger and it tends to do so to charge faster, albeit at the cost of the battery overall life deteriorates because higher charging rates also leads to faster breakdown of cells?
I wish I had sources, but this is what I pulled off the Internet when I was younger... can you please assist and advise? Would greatly appreciate (even if we start new thread from this
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Everybody seems to misunderstand LiPo charging, as it is different than previous battery technologies
For general LiPo Information, you should look here. Charging information is about halfway down the page
http://www.rchelicopterfun.com/rc-lipo-batteries.html
Ill quote the important part:
Selecting the correct charge current is also critical when charging RC LiPo battery packs. The golden rule here use to be "never charge a LiPo or LiIon pack greater than 1 times its capacity (1C)."
For example a 2000 mAh pack, would be charged at a maximum charge current of 2000 mA or 2.0 amps. Never higher or the life of the pack would be greatly reduced. If you choose a charge rate significantly higher than the 1C value, the battery will heat up and could swell, vent, or catch fire.
Times are a changing...
Most LiPo experts now feel however you can safely charge at a 2C or even 3C rate on quality packs that have a discharge rating of at least 20C or more safely and low internal resistances, with little effect on the overall life expectancy of the pack as long as you have a good charger with a good balancing system. There are more and more LiPo packs showing up stating 2C and 3C charge rates, with even a couple manufactures indicating 5C rates. The day of the 10 minute charge is here (assuming you have a high power charger and power source capable of delivering that many watts and amps).
Click to expand...
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Pretty much all phones are right around 2000mAh capacity now days so even going by the "old" golden charging rule a 2A charger would be safe to use. My Galaxy Nexus came with (I think) a 1A charger, but ever since I got my tablet shortly thereafter I have just used the tablets 2A charger for both devices and never once had an issue. It has been 8 months now of using the 2A charger on my phone. Idle life can still reach a little over 3 days on a single charge and I still get one of the best screen on time's of most people I know around the forums. So yes from personal experience a 2A tablet charger is completely fine to use on a phone.
Charging circuitry is built into the device, not the "charger"
Nothing to worry about
EniGmA1987 said:
Ill quote the important part:
Pretty much all phones are right around 2000mAh capacity now days so even going by the "old" golden charging rule a 2A charger would be safe to use. My Galaxy Nexus came with 9I think) a 1A charger, but ever since I got my tablet shortly thereafter I have just used the tablets 2A charger for both devices and never once had an issue. It has been 8 months now of using the 2A charger on my phone. Idle life can still reach a little over 3 days on a single charge and I still get one of the best screen on time's of most people I know around the forums. So yes from personal experience a 2A tablet charger is completely fine to use on a phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Is it safe to assume that all chargers come default at 1C charging for their device? Because if that's the case, I figure most electronics we own can just be replaced with 10w chargers (which would make life much more convenient).
This is slightly related/unrelated, but how do you know whether a charger is "high quality" or will only provide "constant current / constant voltage"? It seems strange to me that these days, you can't find the circuitry of many devices we own publicly available so you can't check if the design is good (let alone how they chose the components in their design?). Do you (and other veterans) have any thoughts on this?
Thanks for teaching me lots!
-newb, happily reading away
I bought one of those 2amp double chargers from a seller on Amazon. It wasn't really cheap either (in cost anyway- I spent a bit more hoping it would be higher quality). After plugging in my MotoRAZR and the wife's lumia the charger popped and some plastic from the housing of the charger flew across the room! Thankfully both phones were fine.
I wondered whether both phones tried to pull more than the charger could handle and the charger had poor quality circuitry.
Since then, I've only ever bought branded official replacement chargers (Motorola, Samsung etc). I'd happily mix and match them to the phones but I'd be wary of buying a no name Chinese jobby from Ebay or Amazon marketplace.
Sent from my XT910 using xda premium
nutnub said:
Is it safe to assume that all chargers come default at 1C charging for their device? Because if that's the case, I figure most electronics we own can just be replaced with 10w chargers (which would make life much more convenient).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Most batteries can discharge a lot faster than they can recharge, but with LiPo, the difference is getting smaller.
Batteries used to need trickle charging as if you charge fast they would get hot, which causes the chemicals inside to expand(think like a fizzy drink, pour it fast and it will overflow) causing the battery to burst, exposing nasty chemicals.
New technology means the charger can accurately monitor how fast we fill the battery, without letting it get too hot, and also the way it is filled(as with the fizzy drink, pour down the side of a glass rather than straight to the bottom and you will fill the glass faster, with less chance of it over-spilling)
This is slightly related/unrelated, but how do you know whether a charger is "high quality" or will only provide "constant current / constant voltage"? It seems strange to me that these days, you can't find the circuitry of many devices we own publicly available so you can't check if the design is good (let alone how they chose the components in their design?). Do you (and other veterans) have any thoughts on this?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Unfortunately, industry is full of products made to a budget, usually by using cheaper components/designs(the charger for the ASUS TF101 was renowned for failing), so there is no foolproof way of determining 'quality' apart from word of mouth, looking at quantities sold, feedback in reviews/forums.
Basically, it boils down to 'consumer testing'
---------- Post added at 09:54 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:38 AM ----------
Here's a bit more related information found buried deep in documents here: http://www.usb.org/developers/devclass_docs
The USB2.0 specifications for current output say the maximum current is limited to 1.8A, while USB3.0 has a maximum current limit of 5A
Hopefully, USB3.0 will quickly become a new standard for portable devices.
more questions!
First of all, let me please thank you for responding and being so thorough with your answers! There is so much information out there, and in my 22 years of existence, I cannot for the life of me sort through the sheer amount of data. I do greatly enjoy reading every little thing that is posted, especially in this thread because I think it's super important to understand the electronics that we interact with.
sonicfishcake said:
I bought one of those 2amp double chargers from a seller on Amazon. It wasn't really cheap either (in cost anyway- I spent a bit more hoping it would be higher quality). After plugging in my MotoRAZR and the wife's lumia the charger popped and some plastic from the housing of the charger flew across the room! Thankfully both phones were fine.
I wondered whether both phones tried to pull more than the charger could handle and the charger had poor quality circuitry.
Since then, I've only ever bought branded official replacement chargers (Motorola, Samsung etc). I'd happily mix and match them to the phones but I'd be wary of buying a no name Chinese jobby from Ebay or Amazon marketplace.
Sent from my XT910 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My concern with this is that if Motorola or Samsung does put out a product less than optimal, would we all know? Another way of asking this is how do we know that Apple/Motorola/Samsung/Lenovo does produce superior products and it's not merely a matter of advertisement or brand image? Do you think there is a way to know, as a consumer, that even third party products are becoming more competitive, given that smaller companies have much harder time advertising and building a name/brand for themselves? (if you can't tell, I am rooting for the little guys because I may one day work for the little guys)
skally said:
Most batteries can discharge a lot faster than they can recharge, but with LiPo, the difference is getting smaller.
Batteries used to need trickle charging as if you charge fast they would get hot, which causes the chemicals inside to expand(think like a fizzy drink, pour it fast and it will overflow) causing the battery to burst, exposing nasty chemicals.
New technology means the charger can accurately monitor how fast we fill the battery, without letting it get too hot, and also the way it is filled(as with the fizzy drink, pour down the side of a glass rather than straight to the bottom and you will fill the glass faster, with less chance of it over-spilling)
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Thank you for clarifying for us. Would you happen to know if there are specifics to recharge specs, short of finding me published papers on the technology? What you said is definitely what I've been reading from the Internet and I do trust you, just would help me have greater peace of mind with my nice and shiny devices,,,
skally said:
...
Unfortunately, industry is full of products made to a budget, usually by using cheaper components/designs(the charger for the ASUS TF101 was renowned for failing), so there is no foolproof way of determining 'quality' apart from word of mouth, looking at quantities sold, feedback in reviews/forums.
Basically, it boils down to 'consumer testing'
---------- Post added at 09:54 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:38 AM ----------
Here's a bit more related information found buried deep in documents here: http://www.usb.org/developers/devclass_docs
The USB2.0 specifications for current output say the maximum current is limited to 1.8A, while USB3.0 has a maximum current limit of 5A
Hopefully, USB3.0 will quickly become a new standard for portable devices.
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A quick question, just because USB3.0 should allow up to 25W, that doesn't mean that it's the standard for devices, does it? As in Nexus 10 probably can only draw 10W, even if my computer (which although stated is USB3.0) may not have the circuitry behind it to allow for such a draw? I'm a little iffy on the whole implementation of USB standards. Because if USB2.0 has draw of up to 9W, I haven't seen this from my laptop or any devices claiming to have USB2.0 ports,,,
but then again, I may be paranoid. Just trying to line up my experience with theory!
Thank you all for so much support and enthusiasm. Any chance we'll see this on a top thread somewhere?
nutnub said:
A quick question, just because USB3.0 should allow up to 25W, that doesn't mean that it's the standard for devices, does it? As in Nexus 10 probably can only draw 10W, even if my computer (which although stated is USB3.0) may not have the circuitry behind it to allow for such a draw? I'm a little iffy on the whole implementation of USB standards. Because if USB2.0 has draw of up to 9W, I haven't seen this from my laptop or any devices claiming to have USB2.0 ports,,,
but then again, I may be paranoid. Just trying to line up my experience with theory!
Thank you all for so much support and enthusiasm. Any chance we'll see this on a top thread somewhere?
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If the Nexus kernel says the limit is 2A then that's it. It cant use more power.
Have you seen the internal USB 3.0 cable?
It's at least twice as thick as a USB 2.0 cable, I got a new chassi for my computer last week, with a couple 2.0 and a 3.0 USB front port.
And if your motherboard's built for USB 3.0, I'm pretty sure it can take the current. Otherwise there would be no meaning of adding 3.0 support.
Sent from my Nexus 10 using xda app-developers app
If something is listed as a USB3 port, it must be up to USB3 certifications. Otherwise the manufacturer of the device is liable for a huge lawsuit if issues arise. If something says USB3 that doesnt mean it IS drawing 25w though, just that the port is capable of having 25w pulled through it over the USB connector. Same with USB2 and its 9w limit on the spec. Also, plugging a tablet such as this into a computer's USB3 port does not mean it will charge faster or get faster data transfers, since the cable being used and the device are still of the older specification.
nutnub said:
Thank you for clarifying for us. Would you happen to know if there are specifics to recharge specs, short of finding me published papers on the technology? What you said is definitely what I've been reading from the Internet and I do trust you, just would help me have greater peace of mind with my nice and shiny devices,,,
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Have a look here for info on the recharging process for Lithium based cells.
https://sites.google.com/site/tjinguytech/charging-how-tos/the-charging-process
It is worth noting the level of precautions taken while charging the cells aggressively. You really don't need a bucket of sand on standby when you plug your phone in to it's charger
nutnub said:
A quick question, just because USB3.0 should allow up to 25W, that doesn't mean that it's the standard for devices, does it? As in Nexus 10 probably can only draw 10W, even if my computer (which although stated is USB3.0) may not have the circuitry behind it to allow for such a draw? I'm a little iffy on the whole implementation of USB standards. Because if USB2.0 has draw of up to 9W, I haven't seen this from my laptop or any devices claiming to have USB2.0 ports,,,
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There are actually 2 different current limits for each USB specification: USB2.0 has 0.5A and 1.8A, while USB3.0 has 1.5A and 5.0A
The lower of the current limits is what I would expect to get from a USB port on a computer, while the higher one I would expect to get from a dedicated charger.
I believe the higher current specification was added purely for charging mobile devices, as it is only achieved by adding a resistance across D+ and D-, removing the data transmission capabilities of the port. I don't know if that's practical, or possible with a computer USB port.
I do remember seeing motherboards with ports specifically designed for fast charging, but I haven't got any info on them as yet.
There are also kernels which enable "fast charging" on a PC. Basically it removes the data connection in software and treats any USB connection as if it were plugged into AC. You can charge just as fast on a computer as you can on a wall charger when this feature is enabled in the kernel.
I am using the N10 charger for my Note 2 and it charges bloody fast using this charger. Charging is noticeably faster on Note 2 than the stock 1A charger that came with the Note.
Battery is not getting warm and battery temps are similar to those on 1A charger. Basically its cutting the charging time in almost half.
Agreed. Note 2 charger is awesome. Bought a powergen 3.1 amp car charger for the note 2 also after watching videos and reading up on proper car chargers for the phone. Guess I can use it for my nexus 10 too.
Sent from my Nexus 10 using xda premium
I own RC cars with lipo batteries and rule of thumb is total mah divide by 1000 = the Max amp charger you can use. So a 2100mah battery can be charged with a 2.1A charger.
On that note I charge my Samsung s3 that has a 2100mah battery with a 2.1A car charger without any issue.
Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2
I used the N10's charger to charge my iPod Nano 3rd gen, no problem
i have had the V20 for about 12 hours in which time it charged from about 50% to about 75% ... my Note would accomplish the same in about 15 minutes ... and yet the V20 is supposed to run the same type of quick charger on the same size battery ... something about this doesn't rub me the right way
yes i did use the phone and unplug it a few times etc but it still should have been much faster ...
it was connected using its own cable and charger BUT through a USB extension cord ... so then i thought maybe that's the problem - maybe i need a longer type C cable and to get rid of extension cord ... but i need to have an answer to that BEFORE buying new cables ...
so i plugged it in directly ( no extension ) and tried to see if it charges in correct mode ...
and here is where i face plant into a wall of excruciating stupidity ... every single app out there measures charging current, whereas what i really want to know is whether the charger is running at 5V standard voltage or using the quick charge 9V voltage ... amazingly there doesn't seem to be an app to show this - or is there ?
my galaxy note would simply say " adaptive quick charger connected " when plugged into quick charger but the V20 doesn't say anything like that.
accubattery app says my screen on charging rate is 760 ma and screen off is 1760 ma ... and the charger of course states 1.8 A so that's consistent ... but is that at 5V or at 9V ? the charger supports both - which one is it ?
this is killing me - so much stupidity. it shouldn't be that hard to figure out whether the phone is charging correctly or not.
anybody have an idea how i could find out whether the charger is actually stepping up to 9V without physically cutting the USB cable and using my multimeter ?
EDIT: i realized i have a kill-a-watt ( actually two of them ) and i can measure power draw from 120V outlet ... so i did that. the draw fluctuated from about 6 to 13 watt. now if we assume 90% efficiency on the charger then full power would have to draw 18 watt from outlet - clearly it never got close. on the other hand at 5V it should have maxed out at around 10 watt power draw, and it went quite a bit over that so it would seem to be using the 9V mode ...
at this point however i'm up to 90% battery and can't expect it to charge at full rate any more as some battery charging algorithms taper off above 80% or so ...
i tried with and without extension cord and noticed no difference ... also if i remember correctly my Note also charged fine over this same extension cord ... but i'm not sure
EDIT: played with turning off 2nd screen as well as shutting down device completely - this phone is crazy. power draw is all the place - at one point it went to ZERO and stayed there until i unplugged it and plugged it back in, then it would fluctuate between zero and 14 watts ...
you know back in the day i had LG Nitro HD and it had worst battery performance of any phone ever ... and this V20 seems to be living up to that legacy. WTF.
anyway, it seems the charger and the cable and extension are not to blame - it seems there is some kind of software weirdness that is resulting in very sporadic power draw ...
slow charging is one of the reasons i switched from iPhone back to Android - i expected this V20 to perform similarly ( blazing fast charging ) to the Note 4 i had before the iPhone 6S Plus ... but it's charging performance so far is almost identical to the iPhone - slow as a snail.
i already spent $80 on case and screen protector and i'm supposed to spend a bunch more on extra cables and memory card as well as sell my iPhone and at the same time i'm thinking - maybe i should just return it ? going to have to observe it for a while longer before making any decisions either way ... terrible.
The V20 is QC 3.0
The Note 5 is QC 2.0
The V20 will negotiate with a 3.0 charger to tell the charger what power it requires at that moment so power will fluctuate during charging.
this will show you which devices are 3.0 and 2.0
https://www.qualcomm.com/documents/quick-charge-device-list
Quick charging explained
http://www.androidauthority.com/quick-charge-3-0-explained-643053/
nest75068 said:
The V20 is QC 3.0
The Note 5 is QC 2.0
The V20 will negotiate with a 3.0 charger to tell the charger what power it requires at that moment so power will fluctuate during charging.
this will show you which devices are 3.0 and 2.0
https://www.qualcomm.com/documents/quick-charge-device-list
Quick charging explained
http://www.androidauthority.com/quick-charge-3-0-explained-643053/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yeah it fluctuates a lot. i gave up on apps and just using Kill-a-watt now which is a physical power meter you insert into 120V outlet. it shows power draw from charger, not output, but we can assume about 90% efficiency from input to output of charger.
i let the V20 drain to 40% overnight and restarted the test today. with the extension cord it went up to 16 watt draw from outlet and stayed there - charge quickly went up to 55% then i tried without the extension cord and now its only at 11 watts. this is with both screens off. so far my conclusion is that using an extension cord makes no difference but the level of charge on the phone does impact the charging speed. you need to drain the phone to measure full charging speed.
i will continue with my testing but i am somewhat relieved. 16 watts is close to spec, in fact the spec is 16 watt but on the OUTPUT side of charger, not input, so i'm withing about 10% of spec.
i'm also a lot less nervous buying charging cables now that i verified 16 watt charging over many years old USB 2.0 extension cord ...
EDIT: wow it went from 55% to 68% while i was typing this message ! this is very different from what i saw yesterday ... it was running at 11 watts while i was typing. looks like the phone charges fast as long as it is: 1) drained and 2) left alone. if the phone is almost full and you keep playing with it the level of charge barely changes.
EDIT: at 89% charge it's now down to just 4 watts power draw from outlet ... 25% of what it was pulling at 40% charge. so far it looks like it tapers charging speed off gradually with charge level - starts early and tapers it off to almost nothing as it nears full charge ... and all the while it fluctuates with processor and screen use and probably other factors such as temperature. maybe the reason it went to 16 watts when i plugged it in the morning is that the phone was cold from not being used all night and perhaps it now warmed up so the power got tapered.
maybe i'll stop testing it - it seems to be working correctly, just not the way i originally expected it to.
overall i'm disappointed with this phone but the only phone i would trade it for is Pixel XL 128 GB Very Black which is unavailable ... so i guess i will keep it.
the phone i'm most impressed with right now is ZTE Axon 7 i got for my mother - it is shockingly good - if it wasn't for FM radio, IR Blaster, Removable Battery, Laser Autofocus, Dual Camera, Dual Screen and Nougat i would even say the ZTE Axon 7 is BETTER than V20. the main problem with ZTE is it's just not expensive enough for my ego - otherwise it is great. the screen is is super sharp, vivid and punchy, the front facing speakers are loud and crisp and then there's the 2 year warranty. i'm jealous ...
but i will stick with V20 to protect my dignity. because let's face it - if i'm out on a date i want to have the latest, most technologically advanced and most expensive phone - not the cheapest phone, even if it is just as good or better. really happy with my decision to get Axon 7 for my mom though. she loves it as well.
The way QC works is that it will charge fastest from low power until around 70-80% and then slow down A LOT to help preserve the battery. That is why you saw a high wattage and then when you got into the 80's you saw a very low wattage.
QC is mainly for you to get 40-50% of battery power in a relative short amount of time when your battery is low.
I bought a little device that measures the voltage and current of the charge. And I'm using my own Quick Charge 3.0 wall charger.
When the screen is off or powered down, it charges at 9V/1.8A max. Resulting in about 16W of power. Which is pretty much what the supplied LG charger delivers.
When the screen is on, it charges at 5V/0.5A
My QC3.0 charger is capable of up to 9V/2A and 12V/1.5A, 18W of power. The V20 doesn't seem to draw that much power. And now I'm starting to doubt the V20 is truly a QC3.0 device.
BozQ said:
I bought a little device that measures the voltage and current of the charge. And I'm using my own Quick Charge 3.0 wall charger.
When the screen is off or powered down, it charges at 9V/1.8A max. Resulting in about 16W of power. Which is pretty much what the supplied LG charger delivers.
When the screen is on, it charges at 5V/0.5A
My QC3.0 charger is capable of up to 9V/2A and 12V/1.5A, 18W of power. The V20 doesn't seem to draw that much power. And now I'm starting to doubt the V20 is truly a QC3.0 device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'll grab voltage/amp reader that I have at home and test my 3 QC 3.0 chargers I have (I'll drain phone to around 20% and then test them and see how it goes) - I'm going to test with the phone off so it pulls the max and see what it ends up with
I have this at work
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B018RR30TK
I have this at home
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01FCZACFA
And this in the car
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01CCBGR1U
g1981c said:
yeah it fluctuates a lot. i gave up on apps and just using Kill-a-watt now which is a physical power meter you insert into 120V outlet. it shows power draw from charger, not output, but we can assume about 90% efficiency from input to output of charger.
i let the V20 drain to 40% overnight and restarted the test today. with the extension cord it went up to 16 watt draw from outlet and stayed there - charge quickly went up to 55% then i tried without the extension cord and now its only at 11 watts. this is with both screens off. so far my conclusion is that using an extension cord makes no difference but the level of charge on the phone does impact the charging speed. you need to drain the phone to measure full charging speed.
i will continue with my testing but i am somewhat relieved. 16 watts is close to spec, in fact the spec is 16 watt but on the OUTPUT side of charger, not input, so i'm withing about 10% of spec.
i'm also a lot less nervous buying charging cables now that i verified 16 watt charging over many years old USB 2.0 extension cord ...
EDIT: wow it went from 55% to 68% while i was typing this message ! this is very different from what i saw yesterday ... it was running at 11 watts while i was typing. looks like the phone charges fast as long as it is: 1) drained and 2) left alone. if the phone is almost full and you keep playing with it the level of charge barely changes.
EDIT: at 89% charge it's now down to just 4 watts power draw from outlet ... 25% of what it was pulling at 40% charge. so far it looks like it tapers charging speed off gradually with charge level - starts early and tapers it off to almost nothing as it nears full charge ... and all the while it fluctuates with processor and screen use and probably other factors such as temperature. maybe the reason it went to 16 watts when i plugged it in the morning is that the phone was cold from not being used all night and perhaps it now warmed up so the power got tapered.
maybe i'll stop testing it - it seems to be working correctly, just not the way i originally expected it to.
overall i'm disappointed with this phone but the only phone i would trade it for is Pixel XL 128 GB Very Black which is unavailable ... so i guess i will keep it.
the phone i'm most impressed with right now is ZTE Axon 7 i got for my mother - it is shockingly good - if it wasn't for FM radio, IR Blaster, Removable Battery, Laser Autofocus, Dual Camera, Dual Screen and Nougat i would even say the ZTE Axon 7 is BETTER than V20. the main problem with ZTE is it's just not expensive enough for my ego - otherwise it is great. the screen is is super sharp, vivid and punchy, the front facing speakers are loud and crisp and then there's the 2 year warranty. i'm jealous ...
but i will stick with V20 to protect my dignity. because let's face it - if i'm out on a date i want to have the latest, most technologically advanced and most expensive phone - not the cheapest phone, even if it is just as good or better. really happy with my decision to get Axon 7 for my mom though. she loves it as well.
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Just smh at this whole post. I want my 5 minutes back.
Thats weird, Im using my Note 7 charger on the V20 and it charge the phone completely in less that 2 hours. In my case I always drain my phone to 3% and leave it charging up to 100%. I will check again tonight to be sure.
TempezT said:
Thats weird, Im using my Note 7 charger on the V20 and it charge the phone completely in less that 2 hours. In my case I always drain my phone to 3% and leave it charging up to 100%. I will check again tonight to be sure.
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I wouldn't drain it that low all the time unless you plan on stocking up on batteries or don't mind depleting longevity of battery quicker than usual.
@rbiter said:
I wouldn't drain it that low all the time unless you plan on stocking up on batteries or don't mind depleting longevity of battery quicker than usual.
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Click to collapse
Tmobile Jump on Demand ftw - I only have devices for 5-6 months tops and then get a new phone
Tested this one one when I got home.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01FCZACFA
I was getting 9.2v @ 1.67A = 15w of power. This is the max that my USB multimeter can do so it would seem that this charger is good for QC 3.0 as it did fluctuate voltage as needed.
nest75068 said:
Tmobile Jump on Demand ftw - I only have devices for 5-6 months tops and then get a new phone
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That is still wasteful use on a battery and giving the next guy a raw deal. But to each his own. I try and make everything last and more efficient so the next person feels like they are truly getting an almost lightly used phone. If I sell my note4, they're going to get a lightly used battery on top of the 3 extras, with fixed GPS and better reception and cleaned out USB port with no oxidization. Same with my HTC m8 though that was only used as daily driver for two weeks and then a DAP for trips and occasional home use. Definitely selling the m8. They are basically getting a lightly used phone and the battery should still have some good life coming out of it. And personally I think jump is overpriced leasing but I guess you can drive it like you stole it. I prefer handing down the best experience I can to the next person.
@rbiter said:
That is still wasteful use on a battery and giving the next guy a raw deal. But to each his own. I try and make everything last and more efficient so the next person feels like they are truly getting an almost lightly used phone. If I sell my note4, they're going to get a lightly used battery on top of the 3 extras, with fixed GPS and better reception and cleaned out USB port with no oxidization. Same with my HTC m8 though that was only used as daily driver for two weeks and then a DAP for trips and occasional home use. Definitely selling the m8. They are basically getting a lightly used phone and the battery should still have some good life coming out of it. And personally I think jump is overpriced leasing but I guess you can drive it like you stole it. I prefer handing down the best experience I can to the next person.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My devices go back to tmobile which then go back for refurbishment. With the V20 it's easy for them to just replace the battery.
And you really think they do?
@rbiter said:
And you really think they do?
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Click to collapse
Who knows but tbh it's not my issue at that point.
nest75068 said:
I have this at work
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B018RR30TK
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just tested this one at work. Phone was at 28% and I had been streaming Youtube for a good 2 hours before doing the test.
Ended up pulling 9.17v @ 1.68A = 15.40 watts (again maximum that my tester can do).
I'll be ordering a new tester that can handle up to 25A and testing again to see if I can pull the max 18watts of power that the QC 3.0 chargers says it can deliver
nest75068 said:
Just tested this one at work. Phone was at 28% and I had been streaming Youtube for a good 2 hours before doing the test.
Ended up pulling 9.17v @ 1.68A = 15.40 watts (again maximum that my tester can do).
I'll be ordering a new tester that can handle up to 25A and testing again to see if I can pull the max 18watts of power that the QC 3.0 chargers says it can deliver
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Click to collapse
You mean 25W charger?
Which charger is that? Do share, please.
BozQ said:
You mean 25W charger?
Which charger is that? Do share, please.
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Click to collapse
No it's a USB Mutlimeter
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01J7236K2
It will support up to 30V testing and 5A (but there is no charger that I know of that can do that much lol)
nest75068 said:
No it's a USB Mutlimeter
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01J7236K2
It will support up to 30V testing and 5A (but there is no charger that I know of that can do that much lol)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I see.
This looks like a good device.
There are time on my v10 where I'll plug it in and it will charge at a reduced rate so I have to unplug it and plug it back it and it changes to fast charge, that's just been my experience. This is using factory plug and adapter too.
So you might want to make sure the phone says "fast charging" and not "charging".
Sent from my LG-H901 using XDA-Developers mobile app