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I just looked at the Vibrant today. I am trying out the Sprint EVO and have not made up my mind (have 3 more weeks to decide). I have been very curious with all the hubub surrounding this new screen. "brilliant" "incredible" "vibrant" etc are terms that all the review sites are throwing around.
Now that I have seen it, it is true. The colors really pop. However, I am torn. On the one hand, S-AMOLED colors are very rich. It has better color saturation for video, and photos colors pop a bit more on the S-AMOLED vs the evo's LCD and the viewing angles are GREAT! There is almost no hazing effect when viewed from the side. WOW
On the other hand, even though both devices have 800x480 displays the text looks jagged on the Vibrant. Icons while very bright, do not look smooth. Very small text that is readable on the EVO is illegible on the Vibrant (for example viewing web pages zoomed all the way out). Pictures when viewed at the same zoom level look sharper and more detailed on the LCD screen. It appears that the actual resolution is less on the S-AMOLED than the TFT.
What is going on here? Why does it look this way. For me a large part of my phone is reading text, why does it appear more jagged and fuzzier? Does anyone have any insight?
Oh, and also the maximum brightness is lower on the Vibrant (not that I ever use max brightness) somehow whites look just a little dirty/grey in comparison.
Anyone have any insight into this resolution issue?
It's most likely a pentile screen...
Search for Arestechnica article about the issue with the Nexus one screen and the Pentile layout technology. In other words we're not getting "true" resolution where each pixel can display all 3 colors. I can't post links since I am a newb.
Interesting read...I only skimmed it. Kinda lame if you ask me. AMOLED has not shown to be battery saving enough for the technology to be useful in my opinion. Iphone 4 and Droid X as well as the EVO has shown LCD technology has shown there's still a lot to love about old tech.
http:// arstechnica.com/gadgets/news/2010/03/secrets-of-the-nexus-ones-screen-science-color-and-hacks.ars/
Remove the space between the Http:// and the link for the Ars Technica Article about pentile displays.
VERY informative. Essentially each pixel in a pentile display is not capable of displaying all three Red Green and Blue colors. 3 sub pixels are combined from an array of RGB subpixles and processing is used to smooth it out. A pentile display used in AMOLED has an addressable resolution of 392x653.
from the article:
"you could think about this display as taking the 480x800 input image and scaling it down to 392x653 image, using subpixel positioning to reduce the apparent blurriness as much as possible."
That IS lame. This explains why it looks so much fuzzier.
Thanks.
Now the question is, is it worth the trade off for power efficiency and color saturation...? Hmmm
Ehh...I don't feel so envious towards those with the Super AMOLED screens all of a sudden. Sure my colors might not be as vibrant, but at least it's working the way it's supposed to .
^^haha yea agreed, its all hype.
I didn't read the article but isn't this partially to avoid screen burn in? I remember hearing AMOLED screens have problems with burn in.
sure everyone loves the super super-amoled display of our sgs's.
but even in casual usage- not looking under microscope,
i can make out the dots making up every font. small fonts look bad.
and in landscape its even more noticeable.
in the android running on my topaz , i cant make out the dots.
so is it the bigger screen, with poor dpi or an issue specific to amoled?
is dithering off , if so any way to turn it on?
or is it just me/ should i get my eyes etc tested?
4-inches of nexus 1 res = that.
afaik the black dots are a physical limitation so you can't really software fix that
personally i don't have a problem with it, they're noticeable only on very small fonts (its ok on "only pretty damn small" haha)
Unfortunately text is not the Galaxy S' screen's strong point, because it uses a PenTile layout - rather than having red, green and blue (RGB) subpixels to make up each pixel, it has an alternating pattern of RG and BG subpixels, using interpolation to provide proper colours over the full screen resolution. However, while this is fine for graphics, it's not as crisp for text. I was concerned about this before getting the phone; it's livable with though, as I usually hold the phone just far enough away that I don't notice.
There's nothing that can be done about it, because it's hardware, and it's a tradeoff for having the Super AMOLED screen. The Nexus One and Desire, which have (until recently, anyway) AMOLED screens, also use a PenTile matrix.
Mithent said:
Unfortunately text is not the Galaxy S' screen's strong point, because it uses a PenTile layout - rather than having red, green and blue (RGB) subpixels to make up each pixel, it has an alternating pattern of RG and BG subpixels, using interpolation to provide proper colours over the full screen resolution. However, while this is fine for graphics, it's not as crisp for text. I was concerned about this before getting the phone; it's livable with though, as I usually hold the phone just far enough away that I don't notice.
There's nothing that can be done about it, because it's hardware, and it's a tradeoff for having the Super AMOLED screen. The Nexus One and Desire, which have (until recently, anyway) AMOLED screens, also use a PenTile matrix.
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Thanks that was very informative.
Had a quick question I was hoping some Nexus S owners could help with, to do with the screen's pixel layout.
Pretty much every LCD display I've seen has its pixels lined up in neat horizontal and vertical rows (basically in a '+' configuration). Looking at the AMOLED screens on the HTC Desire and Samsung Galaxy S i9000, they both look like their screens have been rotated 45 degress, so that the pixels line up on an 'X'. This means that straight horizontal or vertical lines actually look jagged on an AMOLED phone (as opposed to diagonal lines looking jagged on normal LCDs).
Having seen the Nexus S in videos and photos, I think it may have a more normal, LCD-type '+' pixel grid. Can somebody take a look at their screen (or better yet, take some up-close photos of straight horizontal/vertical lines) and tell us what they see?
The only way you'll see anything jagged looking is if you're looking at your phone under a microscope.
ikon8 said:
The only way you'll see anything jagged looking is if you're looking at your phone under a microscope.
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Agreed, and even then it's not like when you are looking at a G2 or MyTouch 4g screen you just cry yourself to sleep. I think they are still pretty good screens, but SAMOLED is like the switch from a tube TV to that nice Plasma, never gonna be the same.
What the OP is noticing is the different pixel arrangement that samsung decided to use for these SAMOLED panels... which is RGBG instead of the traditional RGB on most LCDs. It's also responsible for the type of 'jagged' lines, which in effect is not really jagged, it's just that there's more space between red and blue subpixels than on a traditional RGB layout so you see more gaps for certain colors.
I notice the fuzzyness that the original poster is talking about when looking at the Samsung Vibrant. Text just was not as sharp on the SAMOLED screen on the vibrant (and other amoled screens) as on LCD screens on the G2 or Mytouch4g. This is due to the subpixel layout of the SAMOLED screen. Some people notice it more than others.
The Nexus S screen does seem to be sharper than the Vibrant, at least on the demo I played with.
the OP is right. and the Nexus S screen is the same as Galaxy S in that matters. its not a +. more like X.
however, i find it really hard to notice it unless you get very close to the screen. you have a good eye man.
Yup, the mesh/screen effect you notice over the pixels are from their different pixel arrangements, called pen-tile arrangement. More info here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PenTile_matrix_family
The galaxy S phones, and the nexus [1S] use this pen tile arrangement. I think the only amoled display I've personally seen without the pen-time arrangement, is the nokia N8's, though I'm sure there are more..
PenTile RGBW technology adds a white subpixel to the traditional red, blue, and green subpixels in a color display allowing a brighter display using less power.
The PenTile RGBW layout uses each red, green, blue and white subpixel to present high-resolution luminance information to the human eyes' red-sensing and green-sensing cone cells, while using the combined effect of all the color subpixels to present lower-resolution chroma (color) information to all three cone cell types.
Combined, this optimizes the match of display technology to the biological mechanisms of human vision. The layout uses one third fewer subpixels for the same resolution as the RGB Stripe (RGB-RGB) layout, in spite of having four color primaries instead of the conventional three, using subpixel rendering combined with metamer rendering. Metamer rendering optimizes the energy distribution between the white subpixel and the combined red, green, and blue subpixels: W <> RGB, to improve image sharpness.
The display driver chip has an RGB to RGBW color vector space converter and gamut mapping algorithm, followed by metamer and subpixel rendering algorithms. In order to maintain saturated color quality, to avoid simultaneous contrast error between saturated colors and peak white brightness, while simultaneously reducing backlight power requirements, the display backlight brightness is under control of the PenTile driver engine.
When the image is mostly desaturated colors, those near white or grey, the backlight brightness is significantly reduced, often to less than 50% peak, while the Liquid Crystal Display levels are increased to compensate.
When the image has very bright saturated colors, the backlight brightness is maintained at higher levels. Since most natural images and black on white text have few simultaneously bright and saturated colors, the average power of the PenTile RGBW panel is 50% less than a conventional RGB LCD.
Since the LCD backlight is the major power using component on many portable devices such as cell phones and personal media players, products that use the PenTile RGBW panel have appreciably longer battery life.
The PenTile RGBW also has an optional high brightness mode that doubles the brightness of the desaturated color image areas, such as black&white text, for improved outdoor view-ability.
The Motorola es400 and Motorola Atrix 4G cell phones use PenTile RGBW LCD displays.
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PenTile
You started a topic that ONLY quotes Wikipedia?
Regardless of what the article says, I know what my eyes see. Pixelation of small-scale text, terrible washed out yellows, and super pixelated greens.
Not quite sure what the point of this thread is... all you did was copy and paste some info from wikipedia. I'm perfectly fine with the screen, though a lot of people seem upset. Those complaints seem to be slowing down at least. It's not the best screen, but it's perfectly fine to me for my phone. I'd be a bit more upset if all picture quality was messed up (both screen and via HDMI), but it looks perfectly fine on other screens.
i copied and pasted text that proves that this pentile argument is false. You put up with some slightly ok colors and get 50% more battery life.
Techcruncher said:
i copied and pasted text that proves that this pentile argument is false. You put up with some slightly ok colors and get 50% more battery life.
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what part of the argument is false? everything that people are complaining about color-wise and clarity-wise is true.
dLo GSR said:
what part of the argument is false? everything that people are complaining about color-wise and clarity-wise is true.
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Some of us have better vision than others.
I would gladly have paid more for anything that wasn't pentile. I try my best to ignore it, but it's so difficult when you can always see it.
..................
It might be a bit more power efficient but the yellows and oranges seriously look off and the greens like look a fly screen.
Also the pixel response rate is seriously bad, TONS of ghosting. This display really only works well with black text on a white background with not much animation.
Blind_Guardian said:
Some of us have better vision than others.
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I've had 20/20 all my life
dLo GSR said:
You started a topic that ONLY quotes Wikipedia?
Regardless of what the article says, I know what my eyes see. Pixelation of small-scale text, terrible washed out yellows, and super pixelated greens.
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That's because you're seeing something you knew about. If you didn't know it was a pentile screen you'd never see that stuff. Sitting my Atrix next to my iPhone 4 I can tell a difference, but not much of one.
I should mention I was in the Air Force and offered a pilot position, which isn't done unless your eye sight is damn-near perfect. I've had 40/20 vision my entire life and I'm a pretty good videophile. You see that stuff because you want to.
hotleadsingerguy said:
That's because you're seeing something you knew about. If you didn't know it was a pentile screen you'd never see that stuff. Sitting my Atrix next to my iPhone 4 I can tell a difference, but not much of one.
I should mention I was in the Air Force and offered a pilot position, which isn't done unless your eye sight is damn-near perfect. I've had 40/20 vision my entire life and I'm a pretty good videophile. You see that stuff because you want to.
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Your vision must be failing or you have chosen to ignore it.
I compared the atrix to every other phone in a verizon store. Everything except the iphone 4 had a worse display.
hotleadsingerguy said:
That's because you're seeing something you knew about. If you didn't know it was a pentile screen you'd never see that stuff. Sitting my Atrix next to my iPhone 4 I can tell a difference, but not much of one.
I should mention I was in the Air Force and offered a pilot position, which isn't done unless your eye sight is damn-near perfect. I've had 40/20 vision my entire life and I'm a pretty good videophile. You see that stuff because you want to.
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If you read any of my posts in the main Pentile complaint thread, you'd know that I didn't even know the phone had a Pentile screen (or what that was for that matter) until after I got annoyed at the greens and yellows of the screen. It's ABSOLUTELY obvious that greens show jagged pixels, expecially when looking at thin greens (zoomed out text, lines, etc) and that yellows are more of a squash color. That was the first thing I noticed when zooming through some sites and playing Angry Birds (having played it on my iPod touch many times before). I then came on this site and read Anandtech's review and found out what a Pentile was.
If you can't tell the difference or shortcomings of a Pentile dispaly vs. a similarly dense display (i.e. the Retina) I can't point to anything else but denial. The screen is nice, but not that nice.
On an unrelated side note, I work in engineering for the modules that guide your fighter jets when you need to see without your eyes. I do wish I could take a ride in one though.
Atrix screen and HDMI sample videos
Last night I went to a concert and taped the show. The screen remained on for the entire 2 hours and still had 70% battery power left. If I were on my previous Captivate it would not have lasted 2 hours. It would seem the same people unhappy with the Atrix screen would be unhappy with the battery life if the Atrix had a different screen. I have posted this before: the Atrix screen is perfectly fine, even better than fine considering its efficiency. I have several hi res (720p) movies that look absolutely wonderful on the Atrix. Colors and resolution look beautiful. The colors do not have the super saturation of the Captivate, but still perfectly fine. Motorola should have provided some sample videos, but they didn't.
I was in the AT&T store playing around with the docks. There are 4 720p sample videos on the phone apparently only available thru HDMI. If someone could post those videos here so we can all have a look at them that may help quiet the screen concerns.
dLo GSR said:
You started a topic that ONLY quotes Wikipedia?
Regardless of what the article says, I know what my eyes see. Pixelation of small-scale text, terrible washed out yellows, and super pixelated greens.
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It's not so much pixelated, but pixel-less. Text is undeniably sharper on the Atrix than it was on the Captivate.
kkeo said:
It's not so much pixelated, but pixel-less. Text is undeniably sharper on the Atrix than it was on the Captivate.
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I don't disagree with that, but when you look at green text there us definitely a difference vs other colors.
Sent from my MB860 using XDA App
Techcruncher said:
I compared the atrix to every other phone in a verizon store. Everything except the iphone 4 had a worse display.
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aside from the iphone 4 which ofcourse has a better screen..
why would i want to go with an atrix screen and not a super amoled screen if i can see the pixels on both screens. yet the super amoled has better blacks and better colors in general ?
mind you i have used all phones including the atrix " even though it was a short period of time "
I am happy with the screen. It is not perfect, but then it is a mobile phone.
If i want awesome colors and deep blacks I have a rockin' 54" plasma. If I want super clear high resolution fonts, I got a great monitor.
I will trade a perfect phone screen for better battery any day. And for me, this pentile display is damn near perfect.
Blind_Guardian said:
Your vision must be failing or you have chosen to ignore it.
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Lol nice one or maybe he is hypnotizing himself that the Pentile display is acceptable because he doesn't want to go through the trouble of returning the dual core webtop phone LOL :-D
But seriously SUPER AMOLED screen has very vibrant color which I actually like but the battery life is bad for web browsing. I wish they have sepcial designed webpage viewer to create black background and white text for SUPER AMOLED screen to conserve battery life.
Finally, I think I've gotten used to the Pentile screen color. Its not really good bit at least its acceptable eventhough the color are distorted and not sure if software can solve the color issue.
Sent from my MB860 using XDA Premium App
So, everyone is complaining about the Atrix display? What about the cellphones dating back from the 1990's? I bet the display was pretty ****ty too. Oh wait, i dont see anyone complaining. Did any of you know about Pentile display back then? NO!?
Please spare us the comparison of what display is better etc..
Here is an idea. Why dont the rest of the ppl who complain about Pentile/SAMOLED etc..invent your own display? simple as that.
You dont like the display on the phone, DONT BUY IT! Stop whining about it.
The Galaxy S2 is known to consist of many issues particularly with its screen. Although the screen technology is far more superior than the one featured on the Galaxy Note, I wanted to know if the Note has any of the following issues with its Super AMOLED HD screen--
1). Black blotches? (*#0*# Select Black; wait for your eyes to adjust; be in a complete dark setting, and assess for this)
2). Stains? (*#0*# Select Black; wait for your eyes to adjust; be in a complete dark setting, and assess for this)
3). Red Tint in Black Background? (*#0*# Select Black; wait for your eyes to adjust; be in a complete dark setting, and assess for this)
4). White-colored bleeding? (*#0*# Select Black; wait for your eyes to adjust; be in a complete dark setting, and assess for this)
5). Brightness uniformity issue? (One side darker than the other or lighter than the other, vice versa)
6). Color uniformity issue?
7). Washed out colors?
8). Lack of clarity?
9). Horizontal or Vertical lines?
10). Ghosting?
11). Circular mark?
12). Banding? (Use *#0*# to test)
13). Dead pixels? (Use *#0*# and Select White)
Above, are issues I've encountered on different S2's. Please let me know if you spot any of the above issues on your Samsung Galaxy NOTE. I really want to gather feedback on all of the above. Thank you.
I dont see any of the above issues but one issue is the white seems little bluish due to pentile matrix
Sent from my brand new gorgeous Galaxy Note using Tapatalk
Some user on another thread just posted a screenshot showing the uniformity issue where right side was darker than left.
Another issue noticed a circular mark
Bluish-tint is normal for Pentile matrix, but is the color evenly distributed?
? I haven't encountered any of the issues that you mentioned on my SGS2, and I've had it for almost 1/2 year now.
Anyways, just picked up the Note a few days ago and still customising to my liking, but so far have noticed (compared to the SGS2):
1. Banding. It's more noticeable (eg. Grey keyboard keys) compared to the SGS2.
2. Tile pattern when seeing grey background (eg. The notification bar)
Sent from my Note
Comparing to my S2, the screen is brighter at 100%, I can read better any text, but I can still see the pentile screen. Not much problem, it is not annoying as hell as was in the first galaxy, but it is there and I can't wait to note 2 with plus technology.
So, on your questions, no to all of them.
Oh, for banding, testing with this image
http://www.imagica-digix.com/support/cine-tal/download/Stills/8bit_full_grad_1red.png
I can't see banding when I use full screen view on browser, but it is there if you move the image or don't see in full screent. It looks like the stock browser changes the colour to 65k when you make scrolls or something like that to be faster and smoother.
No problem for me.
What is tile pattern? Are you referring to the PenTile Matrix?
What is tile pattern? Are you referring to the PenTile Matrix?
Sorry for double-post
aussiebum said:
? I haven't encountered any of the issues that you mentioned on my SGS2, and I've had it for almost 1/2 year now.
Anyways, just picked up the Note a few days ago and still customising to my liking, but so far have noticed (compared to the SGS2):
1. Banding. It's more noticeable (eg. Grey keyboard keys) compared to the SGS2.
2. Tile pattern when seeing grey background (eg. The notification bar)
Sent from my Note
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No Note-2 'till next year though
kersh said:
Comparing to my S2, the screen is much brighter at 100%, I can read better any text, but I can still see the pentile screen. Not much problem, it is not annoying as hell as was in the first galaxy, but it is there and I can't wait to note 2 with plus technology.
So, on your questions, no to all of them.
Oh, for banding, testing with this image
http://www.imagica-digix.com/support/cine-tal/download/Stills/8bit_full_grad_1red.png
I can't see banding when I use full screen view on browser, but it is there if you move the image or don't see in full screent. It looks like the stock browser changes the colour to 65k when you make scrolls or something like that to be faster and smoother.
No problem for me.
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Pentile panic
SAlmighty said:
What is tile pattern? Are you referring to the PenTile Matrix?
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Don't panic. The screen on mine is superb.
I have not looked at any lo-qual 8 or 16 bit images, which will look like so called "banding". Banding is not a technical term, but I know what you mean.
This screen is 24bit, Millions of colors. If you look at 8-16 bit images, they will show banding. On older devices, you would see nothing but banding as they were only 16bit max.
Check out this: color depth
The checkerboard pattern happens when the screen redraws graphics when you resize it.
Zooming out to see a smaller view of a web page, there is a momentary checkerboard pattern behind the image, like the pattern denoting a transparent background in Photoshop. Normal and nothing to worry about. When I think about it, my HD2 showed a blank white background in this situation, not as good as I could not distinguish a page being redrawn and a web connection error giving me a blank page.
Samsung are leaders in the field of screen technology, no? Think about it. Who makes the best TV's? OLED screens are now becoming the TV industry choice of video monitors. They often cost over $10,000. Broadcast engineers are not likely to accept lower grade technology. In fact, LCD's are on the way out.
Don't believe the hype.
This device is amazing.
You can also use *#0*# to assess for banding, although I would believe banding to be common on a phone with greater resolution. The Galaxy S didn't have banding btw, unsure if that had to do with smaller resolution.
kersh said:
Comparing to my S2, the screen is much brighter at 100%, I can read better any text, but I can still see the pentile screen. Not much problem, it is not annoying as hell as was in the first galaxy, but it is there and I can't wait to note 2 with plus technology.
So, on your questions, no to all of them.
Oh, for banding, testing with this image
http://www.imagica-digix.com/support/cine-tal/download/Stills/8bit_full_grad_1red.png
I can't see banding when I use full screen view on browser, but it is there if you move the image or don't see in full screent. It looks like the stock browser changes the colour to 65k when you make scrolls or something like that to be faster and smoother.
No problem for me.
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I have very noticeable vertical banding. Looks as if you are looking through a screen door when panning. It is especially apparent on the Maps app and any grey/white/green backgrounds. Any fixes to alleviate this, dont want to send this back to UK.
VTEChump said:
I have very noticable vertical banding. Looks like a screen door esp on maps, and grey backgrounds. Any fixes to alleviate this, dont want to send this back to UK.
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I'd wager they all look like that. Mine does.
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eallan said:
I'd wager they all look like that. Mine does.
Sent from my GT-N7000 using xda premium
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Really? I assumed this was a manufacturing defect. It is very distracting and takes away from the overall image. Coming from an iphone4, I find it very annoying. Perhaps I'm just anal.. Do others notice vertical banding on their Note?
I don't notice any banding on mine.
Sent from my GT-N7000 using xda premium
VTEChump said:
Really? I assumed this was a manufacturing defect. It is very distracting and takes away from the overall image. Coming from an iphone4, I find it very annoying. Perhaps I'm just anal.. Do others notice vertical banding on their Note?
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On a grey background I notice what I would call a "hatching" type effect. It almost looks like the thatch grey background on iOS devices.
By hatching, do you mean the yellow-tint like that found on the Galaxy S2?
eallan said:
On a grey background I notice what I would call a "hatching" type effect. It almost looks like the thatch grey background on iOS devices.
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Yeah I have the thatching effect on mine as well, like you said, on grey backgrounds. I don't notice it otherwise, just on certain shades of grey. It seems that Samsung screens have problems with grey colors, have had simaler problems with my Nexus S and SGII. I think it's just something with the amoled screens. :/
eallan said:
On a grey background I notice what I would call a "hatching" type effect. It almost looks like the thatch grey background on iOS devices.
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Crap...
Here we go again, users reporting Black Blotches on their screens. What's up with that, evening on Pentile displays?
SAlmighty said:
By hatching, do you mean the yellow-tint like that found on the Galaxy S2?
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No. Not the same thing. This I'd probably a pattern from the pentile.
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I wish I wont have a problem.