Database Users

Help The Noob!!!!

Hello
P.s. Is this the right thread i am posting i dont know....is this is a wrong thread and if i am not supposed to post here then i am sorry for my noobness.....
well, dought a diamond few days back....its a used piece that has no warrenty.....so i have been thinking of modding it with new rom and s/w.....well basically i am a noob in upgrading roms...but i have seen my friend do it a couple of times,felt its a no sweat process....and i wanna try my hand at it....
well basically i need a good rom....(i know i should have searched the forum for roms....but i need your valuable Wisdom in choosing the right rom cause if i choose a wrong one i might mess things up.....and no i am not Lazy)
well...i want a good rom....plz suggest me a few...i will now mention what i need in my phone....so plz..be patient
i need
Windows Mobile OS Rom(preferably The Latest 6.1 cause its the stable one around....i dont know about 6.5 is it any good..?)
can i have the cube application in the Diamond......it would look cool to use it...
Mobile Office,Pdf Reader,yahoo messenger,a nice all in one media player..(like vlc on pc platform....it plays everything i throw at it...i just love it..)
i would also like to have the Htc Touch Viva Blue Theme.....i dont Know what its called but i saw it on my friend phone and it was pleasent...

Hey, u know that your phone can brick, right?
You really should read a lot about flashing before doing it.
Start >here<
After that proceed here
If you read everything carefully and want to flash a new ROM be shure to
do it step by step as it's suggested.
And I guess you have read it quite often, but you have to find your own ROM.
Try some and then decide which to use. It's most satisfying^^
And yes, 6.1 is more stable than 6.5 for now so you should take a 6.1 ROM.
But have a look at these two ROMs. I have tryed them both besides many other and I used the A.Z.T.O.R. series for a long time -> very stable and really fast! Will use it again when X3 will be released I don't know if they fit all of your personal needs, but especially for some special theme or so on you should search the Thread you posted this request
A.Z.T.O.R.
udK Syrius
Good luck!
PS.: Please use a topic that contains some more information next time

oh dang i could only get to the first sentence because i have cdma

Thanks for the reply marcel .....i know that i am risking it...but hey...better to die than live a coward all my life ....i want to go thru this...
and okay nxt time i will name the thread more appealingly....

I would recommend two options. You can use Cloudy 1.1 with and without Manila. I have tried both. The WITH Manila has the TF3D with it which is very nice. However, my preference is WITHOUT Manila and then add SPB Mobile Shell 3.0. This is more user friendly.
Both options are very fast and with lots of free ram (more than 50Mb)...
I am not sure if these work with CDMA - please check first.
By the way, I think there is so much great help on these sites (and PPC Geeks) that you will always find a way to get your phone looking and feeling the way you like.
Good luck!

Oops...!!!
Sorry i forgot to mention..the Diamond i right now have was flashed earlier...so right now its having a custom rom by diamond project team....well i am looking for a move basic rom.....which is almost or most likely official rom...

if you want a official rom you can visit HTC.com and download the latest official rom that have been released. whether or not you can use the custom spl without doing any harm i have no idea about since i do not know anything about roms and flashing i just know that HTC has official roms on their site

I think u can download ROMs from HTC if u own an original-HTC device, right?
I wasn't able to download their ROMs because I bought my Diamond from a German reseller
-> Same phone, nearly the same look but an unsupported IMEI (?)
And again I can propose an A.Z.T.O.R. ROM^^
Alpha Zero Tweaked Official Roms = A.Z.T.O.R.
And as your phone was flashed before you should have no probs flashing a new ROM^^ So try some and then choose

The Whole Story!!!
Actually The Diamond i Right now have was bought off the gray market..it was actually a orange network locked phone...so the phone is right now unlocked,gray market product....
Okie....i will take a look at AZTOR..

Ahem...
Well i decided to go with this hardspl....http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=400402 but i cannot seem to understand which radio file to choose....and Roms are Relatively not a big problem...i will try AZTOR OR Duttys..plz gimme a latest stable Radio file...

WTF....!!!!
...
operator ver : Diamondproject Team
Rom Ver : 1.93.921.2 WWE
Rom date : 14/08/08
Radio Version : 1.20.olinex
Protocol Ver : 52.26a.25.09U
some one just gimme good files.....itseems i cannot listen to radio..??!!even set to the frequency i just hear blur sound nothing else....i tried the Hard Spl signed one 1.40...and nothing actually changed....just my phone got hard reset....
so plz...plz...some one Help...
Well as you can see ,itseems i have a 2008 Rom.....i am looking for a 2009 rom...u know..more newer/latest..

okay..i am getting a hang of it.....but still a long way to go...
well..i have found the Rom that my phone currently has...and its link is...
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=413820
i noticed that my radio is not working.....????
i want to use a more latest Rom & would like to listen to radio on my phone... Any help would be appericated...and if nothing else works...imma gonna PM the TOM_CODON Mod who made the rom...

Okay..!!!!
Guys Finally..i manged to flash the whole phone...i.e Hardspl,radio & Rom ...
i am happy with the new os..but noticed that radio is not working...??!!i have created a new thread for help on radio.....check it out at
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=510839

Does constant reflashing do damge to phone? My phone is much slower now.

I have flashed my Blackstone many many times now always in serach of the perfect rom. I have now got to the stage where even after a flash and a hard reset, the phone is very slow and laggy. This is also the case after flashing to an official htc stock rom.
Could it be that constant reflashing creates wear and tear (so to speak) to the electronic innards of the phone???

no it doesnt its the rom that makes the phone slow,with all the extra into the rom.also the interface sense 2.5 with the 3 shortcuts is for the HD2 thats 1gig speed.the blackstone is the half of it so its slower,if ya use 6.5 roms

I know one or two chefs who have flashed there phones right to the ground. Rare as it may be, I'm talking the type of flashing where after a day one might hit over 5 flashes. The chances of you and I damaging the phone from a hand full of flashes per month is highly unlikely.

I have flashed my HD maybe hundred times, still fast though. But I have seen also slowed down HD of my friend (hardware related), but we dont know why. He was using stock ROM.
P.S: I can suggest you flash a WinMo 6.1 rom like topix and run a benchmark without installing any add-ons then compare results with different users. There is shared benchmark results @ HD rom discussion .
Hope your device is OK.

Yes I flashed back to the latest official 6.1 rom but to be honest, once you try 6.5, you dont want to go back to 6.1
Can anyone recommend a close to stock rom but with 6.5? Nothing fancy, just the basic touch flo ui etc. No leo sense ui. One that is fast.

tboy2000 said:
Yes I flashed back to the latest official 6.1 rom but to be honest, once you try 6.5, you dont want to go back to 6.1
Can anyone recommend a close to stock rom but with 6.5? Nothing fancy, just the basic touch flo ui etc. No leo sense ui. One that is fast.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
for something close to a stock 6.5, try KWBR's Vanilla series rhodium - Dec 19th Rom
Not strictly stock, but you might also want to give it a try is the Topix 3.3

Noob needs help please

New Questions here, old one at the bottom.
hi and thanks to everyone for your answers... you helped me a lot.
but:
I tried various 6.5 and 6.5.3 roms and found a lot of bugs in all of them... and that's not really my style. I want to go back to stock firmware 6.1 and there are not many options (or maybe i wasn't able to find them). Where can i find the Stock Firmware section or something like that, if they are unbranded even better, and if you can direct me to the latest one even better... i have installed the one from Orange in spanish meanwhile, i think it's Ver 1.57.75.3 found here. forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=566929 but if there are better unbranded ones i'll be very happy to install them... (how about this one: forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=521354).
Thanks a lot again in advance...
old Question:
Hi, i bought yesterday my new Opal and i have no idea how to update the rom to windows 6.5... I´m a bit of a perfectionist so i wanna get things right from the beginning, and i used to mod motorola phones so i understand some of the technical stuff, but htc is completely new to me.
So far, this is what i have understood:
to update:
1.- install hard_spl
2.- install custom ruu
3.- install new rom.
But i have a lot of questions on what is each one of those things and the advantages they give.
What does Hard_SPL do?
What is the Custom RUU for? (what is the RUU?)
What is the most stable and least customized rom with winmo 6.5? which rom is the most used by this forum?
What is titanium?
and last: how is the Opal unlocked? (if posible)
Mi goal is to update to winmo 6.5 but keep my phone looking as stock as possible and as stable as possible...
all the help i can get will be very appreciated...

su8044 said:
to update:
1.- install hard_spl
2.- install custom ruu
3.- install new rom.
But i have a lot of questions on what is each one of those things and the advantages they give.
What does Hard_SPL do?
What is the Custom RUU for? (what is the RUU?)
What is the most stable and least customized rom with winmo 6.5? which rom is the most used by this forum?
What is titanium?
and last: how is the Opal unlocked? (if posible)
Mi goal is to update to winmo 6.5 but keep my phone looking as stock as possible and as stable as possible...
all the help i can get will be very appreciated...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Congrats for your Htc touch viva!
Ok now initially Htc touch viva has its official spl which would not allow your device to upgrade to custom roms. You can only upgrade to official roms. So Spl is a kind of lock To unlock that only we use Hard SPL After installing HSPL you can upgrade to custom roms.
And you understood slightly wrong because Ruu = Rom update utility its just a app which is used to upgrade your rom in your device. So u dont install that. After HSPL directly rom
And about the roms i cant say coz every one has different flavours try them all At last titanium is a new interface made by microsoft and introduced in wm 6.5 and above.

A Word of Caution....
I want to add one thing...(IMPORTANT!!!)
#1
WM6.5.x has not yet been officially released for HTC Touch Viva T2223.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
#2:
If you are looking forward to experiment with it...go ahead on your own risk as your phone will be void of warranty after 'HardSPLing' it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
#3:
Don't think that a particular WM 6.5.x ROM will work for your device just because it worked like a charm on somebody's device. Believe it or not, though it may be the same model ex: HTC Touch Viva T2223, there are variations depending on the country.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
#4:
I learned the hard way...I took a roundabout ticket....i HardSPLed my device, flashed custom roms, tweaked and played and fooled around with it and has come to a conclusion.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The Verdict:
Stick with the Stock
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
P.S: I didn't mean to frighten you!!!!I can assure you 100% that your mobile won't blow up in your face even if you fiddled with it's innards!!

I want to add one thing to what freelancer said:
Imo it is not ALWAYS the best to stick with the stock version. I had branded ROM shipped with my phone, hardSPLed it and installed custom translated unbranded ROM.
Does the same thing as branded ROM did but way faster. And some features like the HTC task manager didn't work with branded rom at all. Now everything works just fine.
I agree that stock ROMs are the best/fastest, but just not if you have a branded one. It slows down your device.
Just my opinion
greetz

boelze said:
I want to add one thing to what freelancer said:
Imo it is not ALWAYS the best to stick with the stock version. I had branded ROM shipped with my phone, hardSPLed it and installed custom translated unbranded ROM.
Does the same thing as branded ROM did but way faster. And some features like the HTC task manager didn't work with branded rom at all. Now everything works just fine.
I agree that stock ROMs are the best/fastest, but just not if you have a branded one. It slows down your device.
Just my opinion
greetz
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lol, who said that stock is rom is best as far as about opal you should go ahead with custom roms i have seen that custom rom gives more free ram then stock. Plus task manager in stock rom that can be done in custom also the thing is the more the rom is lite the more efficiently your device will work do you know the stock rom .nbh file size is more than 100 mb whereas a normal custom rom is around 90 mb if there are many app and you can create less than 50 mb stock rom also. Wm 6.5 is perfect for opal inface wm 6.5.x also.

freelancer81 said:
I want to add one thing...(IMPORTANT!!!)
#1
#2:
#3:
#4:
The Verdict:
P.S: I didn't mean to frighten you!!!!I can assure you 100% that your mobile won't blow up in your face even if you fiddled with it's innards!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
#1 >>>>> And it will never be announced!!! LOL
#2>>>>>> Well actually not because you can return to stock SPL!!!
#3>>>>>>> WELL I have to disagree!!!! The hardware is all the [email protected]@@@ LOL
#>>>>>>>>HMMM It all bottles down to personel Taste,, bro
THE VERDICT!!!!
Custom Roms RULE!!!!!

i don't mean to disagree with you guys (you know better) but i didn't mean to say that WM6.1 v1-vx is bad but as far as WM6.5 is concerned....they have disadvantages like they are buggy and also consumes battery quite fast.
Appearance wise...WM6.5 is way ahead...but performance wise....I'll stick with WM6.1 anytime.
currently i am using WM6.1 v14 by PDAVIET it is nearly perfect!!!!
regarding differences in hardware...i was meaning the CARRIER...like Verizon, DoPoD, T-Mobile (MDA Basic), iDea (India) and so on...sorry...
regarding stockspl...mine was SPL 1.35.0000...i couldn't find any download link for that..

hey brothers i think tht opal also should have a completely cleam winmo 6.5.3 rom plxxxxxx i love it on mi friends wizard which has less ram....i know ya guys can do it...and also brother winmo is all about customising and making changes to interface wen ya want... its not only themes..it has completely different uis tht can be swithched ezily... so ya gotta try these.....i guess after trying diferent lock screens games today screens thn aftr tht rty theroms

shaffaf said:
hey brothers i think tht opal also should have a completely cleam winmo 6.5.3 rom plxxxxxx i love it on mi friends wizard which has less ram....i know ya guys can do it...and also brother winmo is all about customising and making changes to interface wen ya want... its not only themes..it has completely different uis tht can be swithched ezily... so ya gotta try these sites...forum.ppcwarez.org .....i guess after trying diferent lock screens games today screens thn aftr tht rty theroms
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah bro sure i would also like a fully customized rom on my device but bro we have some problems while cooking for opal only with opal after fixing that i will try to make that type of rom but plz
Right now remove links to warez site do it now!!!!

Thanks but i want to go back to stock
hi and thanks to everyone for your answers... you helped me a lot.
but:
I tried various 6.5 and 6.5.3 roms and found a lot of bugs in all of them... and that's not really my style. I want to go back to stock firmware 6.1 and there are not many options (or maybe i wasn't able to find them). Where can i find the Stock Firmware section or something like that, if they are unbranded even better, and if you can direct me to the latest one even better... i have installed the one from Orange in spanish meanwhile, i think it's Ver 1.57.75.3 found here. forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=566929 but if there are better unbranded ones i'll be very happy to install them... (how about this one: forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=521354).
Thanks a lot again in advance...

Windows Mobile 6.1..IDEA Splash Screen,India.

For those who are experiencing problems wth the 6.5 roms,i m posting the original 6.1 rom DETAILS shipped by hTC to Indian users.
SPECIAL NOTES TO ALL: I HAVE HEARD THAT EVERY USER USING 6.5 IS COMPLAINING ABOUT THE BATTERY ISSUES.WELL,IF YOUR DEVICE IS OLD,AND THEN IF YOU HAVE DECIDED TO UPGRADE IT TO 6.5,THEN BETTER USE A NEW BATTERY COZ,OVER TIME,THE BATTERY TENDS TO LOSE ITS LIFE DUE TO CONSTANT USE.MAY BE A NEW BATTERY WOULD HELP.AFTER CONTACTING hTC OFFICIALS AND SERVICE CENTRE'S IN INDIA,I HAVE BEEN TOLD THAT OPAL IS NOT CAPABLE OF HANDLING THE 6.5 ROM,SO I WAS CAUTIOUSLY ADVICED THE 6.1 ROM.WELL,EVEN THE 6.1 ROM HAS A MINOR PROBLEM OF THE AUDIO MANAGER NOT CLOSING AND RUNNING IN STANDBY THUS CAUSING MEMORY SHOOT UP.HENCE,I AM USING THE RESCO EXPLORER AND TASK MANAGER TO REDUCE THE MEMORY LOSS.ANY ONE HAVING A BETTER HIBERNATING UTILITY MAY POST A REPLY...
DETAILS OF THE ROM ARE AS FOLLOWS.
ROM VERSION:1.35.720.2WWE
ROM DATE:11/12/08
THIS ROM IS A 6.1 AND DOESNOT PLAY THE BOOT UP hTC TONE WHILE BOOTING UP,NEITHER HAS THE hTC LOGO/SPLASH SCREEN.

6.5 with good battery
shreyas18 said:
For those who are experiencing problems wth the 6.5 roms,i m posting the original 6.1 rom DETAILS shipped by hTC to Indian users.
SPECIAL NOTES TO ALL: I HAVE HEARD THAT EVERY USER USING 6.5 IS COMPLAINING ABOUT THE BATTERY ISSUES.WELL,IF YOUR DEVICE IS OLD,AND THEN IF YOU HAVE DECIDED TO UPGRADE IT TO 6.5,THEN BETTER USE A NEW BATTERY COZ,OVER TIME,THE BATTERY TENDS TO LOSE ITS LIFE DUE TO CONSTANT USE.MAY BE A NEW BATTERY WOULD HELP.AFTER CONTACTING hTC OFFICIALS AND SERVICE CENTRE'S IN INDIA,I HAVE BEEN TOLD THAT OPAL IS NOT CAPABLE OF HANDLING THE 6.5 ROM,SO I WAS CAUTIOUSLY ADVICED THE 6.1 ROM.WELL,EVEN THE 6.1 ROM HAS A MINOR PROBLEM OF THE AUDIO MANAGER NOT CLOSING AND RUNNING IN STANDBY THUS CAUSING MEMORY SHOOT UP.HENCE,I AM USING THE RESCO EXPLORER AND TASK MANAGER TO REDUCE THE MEMORY LOSS.ANY ONE HAVING A BETTER HIBERNATING UTILITY MAY POST A REPLY...
DETAILS OF THE ROM ARE AS FOLLOWS.
ROM VERSION:1.35.720.2WWE
ROM DATE:11/12/08
THIS ROM IS A 6.1 AND DOESNOT PLAY THE BOOT UP hTC TONE WHILE BOOTING UP,NEITHER HAS THE hTC LOGO/SPLASH SCREEN.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Dear Friend
I think u didn't have your hands on a good 6.5 ROM
There are 6.5 ROMs with good battery backup in the OPAL forum
Jagan has created this magic for the first time but its a customized version, you may like it
But if u want a ROM like default HTC version you may try my ROM on this thread...http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=655572
Its awesome on battery...just like original 6.5
Some users had a issue while installing this ROM because of different versions of ONBL on OPAL...
My ROM is based on OS 1.35.0.0 and ONBL 1.35.0000
If ur device holds same specs u may use this

imblfmstr said:
Dear Friend
I think u didn't have your hands on a good 6.5 ROM
There are 6.5 ROMs with good battery backup in the OPAL forum
Jagan has created this magic for the first time but its a customized version, you may like it
But if u want a ROM like default HTC version you may try my ROM on this thread...http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=655572
Its awesome on battery...just like original 6.5
Some users had a issue while installing this ROM because of different versions of ONBL on OPAL...
My ROM is based on OS 1.35.0.0 and ONBL 1.35.0000
If ur device holds same specs u may use this
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
HEy,well,the main problem with me is i m a bit stubborn on accepting the fact that the start menu in all the new roms is being put at the bottom and not on the top as the original 6.5's...currently,m trying out the Evo2 by Jagan..its awesum,but misses out on sum important facts and icons,such as on the start menu bar,there is no display of the lock icon when i try out other themes..agreed that hez currently made the best roms here,but it also misses out on the usb connections menu,from which i can have an access to change the actie sync and disk drive settings...i put a lock code to my device,hence,it doesnt appear(on my device,yes i m facing this)also,if suppose,it does come,and if i check the 'dont show this menu again',the =n i m in a complete mess....the rom is stable,but in the long run,the lock icon on the start menu disappears.well,whatever Jagan has made,its commendable,I dont even kno a single percent of what and ow,a stable batery backup rom has been made with utter precision,but,as a friend,i wont like this work to go hay wire...this is not criticizing,but a note to make things more perfect,so that no 1 has a chance to complain....
whatever it is,m keen on the next updated version of the Evolution series,this time with the start menu up....
thanks for making roms...u people make our life work...
love u guyz,thanks for advice...

6.1 ROM link...IDEA SPLASH SCREEN.
WELL,DUE TO BROWSER PROBLEMS,I COULDNT UPLOAD THE 6.1 nbh FILE....HENCE,M GIVIN THE LINK TO THE 6.1 IDEA SPLASH SCREEN ROM..http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=673631

Backup?
Hi Shreyas18,
before flashing the ROM did you take the backup of your current Stock rom and SPL? Did you use any backuptools? If yes, can u kindly share those?
Thanks in advance.

user28 said:
Hi Shreyas18,
before flashing the ROM did you take the backup of your current Stock rom and SPL? Did you use any backuptools? If yes, can u kindly share those?
Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
before flashing which rom???well,i donot take any back up for any rom...all i keep is the .nbh file.thats it...after that its a normal copy-paste work to be done...the .nbh is to be copied,and put into the installation package...to download the installation package,visit the evolution 2 update post posted by jagan 2..google is a great help...but if u dont find a stock rom,u may ask any of the senior members here..they'd be a gr8 help..if u planning to hav a back up of ur rom,please ask for the procedure..i am not aware of it...i advice do not back up ur current rom(6.1 or 6.5)just go on with your customisation...untill u r 100% sure that u hav the stoc rom put up on either xda or google...6.5 is way better than 6.1...camera functions are too good,and it is lot more stable...if at all u need to degrade ur rom frm 6.5 to 6.1,visit a htc service centre and ask the tecnitian to do the needful,swear they are a gr8 help,and it wont cost u nythn..

Link if u need to DEGRADE to WM6.1.
http://www.mediafire.com/?zduytjg0kwz
enjoy...

[Q] Which WM6.5 Rom most stabil & best ?

Hello,
I want to ask which one WM6.5 Rom most stabil & best ?
Because i want to upgrade from WM6.1 to WM6.5
How to make 2 OS (operating system) in my PDA.
I want to use WM6.5 & Android?
How to install use 2 OS.

There is no best ROM. If you ask 5 people, you get 5 different answers.
If you don't understand the basic tasks needed, you better leave flashing to someone else...
The only way for you: READ THE STICKY POSTS and the FAQs in the WIKI.
There is a specific reason they were written: Noobs like you.
Mods: Please lock this noob/nonsense thread

This one!
I have used different ROM's. I have used Dutty's, Miri's, Energy ROMS. Both WM 6.5 builds 21..., 23..., 28...
But I wanted speed and much memory left.
So the ROM I am using now, as you can see in my signature, is the best for me.
After a soft reset, there is 150 MB RAM memory. With Energy ROM 23... I only had 70 MB RAM.
The battery goes for days and I am a heavy user.
This is a very clean ROM without Manila, so you have to install everything yourself.
Glad to be of help...

in the touch hd rom development section you will find a variety of roms by different chefs and every one of those tries to make a rom, that is fast and stable and most of all, to their taste of style and features. rom threads are marked as [ROM| or [RELEASE| and for most, you will find the release date, rom language and version and manila version in the thread's title, which will give you a brief idea, which roms are not for you, e.g. if you want an english rom, ignore the NLD and PTG roms. and have a look at the screenshots in the threads to find one style, you could live with every day. there is no point in flashing a rom that is fast, stable and has a lot of features, when it is hideous and you can't stand looking at it.
in the end you will find maybe 3 roms, you like and you can simply give them a try. remember to back up your pim data, with pimbackup or outlook or ms myphone, because flashing requires a hard reset and you will lose all information stored on the phone. and a word of advice:
you will not find a rom that is as fast or even faster than the stock rom, they are all slow, but they give you more features and more eye candy, which kinda makes it worth a try.
by the way, i am using cloudy's v0.6 wm6.1 with sense 2.5, with a good sense version, the wm behind it does not really matter.
for instructions on how to flash a rom, have a look at this thread: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=505377
for android as a 2nd OS, have a look at this thread: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=732362

i also recommended cloudy rom, flash the latest version since it release till now, few week past, never hang even on heavy use.

Think this thread has been kept open long enough. Everyone has different tastes, like & dislikes so the perfect rom does not exist. You've been given a few pointers above
Thread closed