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sure everyone loves the super super-amoled display of our sgs's.
but even in casual usage- not looking under microscope,
i can make out the dots making up every font. small fonts look bad.
and in landscape its even more noticeable.
in the android running on my topaz , i cant make out the dots.
so is it the bigger screen, with poor dpi or an issue specific to amoled?
is dithering off , if so any way to turn it on?
or is it just me/ should i get my eyes etc tested?
4-inches of nexus 1 res = that.
afaik the black dots are a physical limitation so you can't really software fix that
personally i don't have a problem with it, they're noticeable only on very small fonts (its ok on "only pretty damn small" haha)
Unfortunately text is not the Galaxy S' screen's strong point, because it uses a PenTile layout - rather than having red, green and blue (RGB) subpixels to make up each pixel, it has an alternating pattern of RG and BG subpixels, using interpolation to provide proper colours over the full screen resolution. However, while this is fine for graphics, it's not as crisp for text. I was concerned about this before getting the phone; it's livable with though, as I usually hold the phone just far enough away that I don't notice.
There's nothing that can be done about it, because it's hardware, and it's a tradeoff for having the Super AMOLED screen. The Nexus One and Desire, which have (until recently, anyway) AMOLED screens, also use a PenTile matrix.
Mithent said:
Unfortunately text is not the Galaxy S' screen's strong point, because it uses a PenTile layout - rather than having red, green and blue (RGB) subpixels to make up each pixel, it has an alternating pattern of RG and BG subpixels, using interpolation to provide proper colours over the full screen resolution. However, while this is fine for graphics, it's not as crisp for text. I was concerned about this before getting the phone; it's livable with though, as I usually hold the phone just far enough away that I don't notice.
There's nothing that can be done about it, because it's hardware, and it's a tradeoff for having the Super AMOLED screen. The Nexus One and Desire, which have (until recently, anyway) AMOLED screens, also use a PenTile matrix.
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Thanks that was very informative.
PenTile RGBW technology adds a white subpixel to the traditional red, blue, and green subpixels in a color display allowing a brighter display using less power.
The PenTile RGBW layout uses each red, green, blue and white subpixel to present high-resolution luminance information to the human eyes' red-sensing and green-sensing cone cells, while using the combined effect of all the color subpixels to present lower-resolution chroma (color) information to all three cone cell types.
Combined, this optimizes the match of display technology to the biological mechanisms of human vision. The layout uses one third fewer subpixels for the same resolution as the RGB Stripe (RGB-RGB) layout, in spite of having four color primaries instead of the conventional three, using subpixel rendering combined with metamer rendering. Metamer rendering optimizes the energy distribution between the white subpixel and the combined red, green, and blue subpixels: W <> RGB, to improve image sharpness.
The display driver chip has an RGB to RGBW color vector space converter and gamut mapping algorithm, followed by metamer and subpixel rendering algorithms. In order to maintain saturated color quality, to avoid simultaneous contrast error between saturated colors and peak white brightness, while simultaneously reducing backlight power requirements, the display backlight brightness is under control of the PenTile driver engine.
When the image is mostly desaturated colors, those near white or grey, the backlight brightness is significantly reduced, often to less than 50% peak, while the Liquid Crystal Display levels are increased to compensate.
When the image has very bright saturated colors, the backlight brightness is maintained at higher levels. Since most natural images and black on white text have few simultaneously bright and saturated colors, the average power of the PenTile RGBW panel is 50% less than a conventional RGB LCD.
Since the LCD backlight is the major power using component on many portable devices such as cell phones and personal media players, products that use the PenTile RGBW panel have appreciably longer battery life.
The PenTile RGBW also has an optional high brightness mode that doubles the brightness of the desaturated color image areas, such as black&white text, for improved outdoor view-ability.
The Motorola es400 and Motorola Atrix 4G cell phones use PenTile RGBW LCD displays.
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PenTile
You started a topic that ONLY quotes Wikipedia?
Regardless of what the article says, I know what my eyes see. Pixelation of small-scale text, terrible washed out yellows, and super pixelated greens.
Not quite sure what the point of this thread is... all you did was copy and paste some info from wikipedia. I'm perfectly fine with the screen, though a lot of people seem upset. Those complaints seem to be slowing down at least. It's not the best screen, but it's perfectly fine to me for my phone. I'd be a bit more upset if all picture quality was messed up (both screen and via HDMI), but it looks perfectly fine on other screens.
i copied and pasted text that proves that this pentile argument is false. You put up with some slightly ok colors and get 50% more battery life.
Techcruncher said:
i copied and pasted text that proves that this pentile argument is false. You put up with some slightly ok colors and get 50% more battery life.
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what part of the argument is false? everything that people are complaining about color-wise and clarity-wise is true.
dLo GSR said:
what part of the argument is false? everything that people are complaining about color-wise and clarity-wise is true.
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Some of us have better vision than others.
I would gladly have paid more for anything that wasn't pentile. I try my best to ignore it, but it's so difficult when you can always see it.
..................
It might be a bit more power efficient but the yellows and oranges seriously look off and the greens like look a fly screen.
Also the pixel response rate is seriously bad, TONS of ghosting. This display really only works well with black text on a white background with not much animation.
Blind_Guardian said:
Some of us have better vision than others.
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I've had 20/20 all my life
dLo GSR said:
You started a topic that ONLY quotes Wikipedia?
Regardless of what the article says, I know what my eyes see. Pixelation of small-scale text, terrible washed out yellows, and super pixelated greens.
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Click to collapse
That's because you're seeing something you knew about. If you didn't know it was a pentile screen you'd never see that stuff. Sitting my Atrix next to my iPhone 4 I can tell a difference, but not much of one.
I should mention I was in the Air Force and offered a pilot position, which isn't done unless your eye sight is damn-near perfect. I've had 40/20 vision my entire life and I'm a pretty good videophile. You see that stuff because you want to.
hotleadsingerguy said:
That's because you're seeing something you knew about. If you didn't know it was a pentile screen you'd never see that stuff. Sitting my Atrix next to my iPhone 4 I can tell a difference, but not much of one.
I should mention I was in the Air Force and offered a pilot position, which isn't done unless your eye sight is damn-near perfect. I've had 40/20 vision my entire life and I'm a pretty good videophile. You see that stuff because you want to.
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Your vision must be failing or you have chosen to ignore it.
I compared the atrix to every other phone in a verizon store. Everything except the iphone 4 had a worse display.
hotleadsingerguy said:
That's because you're seeing something you knew about. If you didn't know it was a pentile screen you'd never see that stuff. Sitting my Atrix next to my iPhone 4 I can tell a difference, but not much of one.
I should mention I was in the Air Force and offered a pilot position, which isn't done unless your eye sight is damn-near perfect. I've had 40/20 vision my entire life and I'm a pretty good videophile. You see that stuff because you want to.
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Click to collapse
If you read any of my posts in the main Pentile complaint thread, you'd know that I didn't even know the phone had a Pentile screen (or what that was for that matter) until after I got annoyed at the greens and yellows of the screen. It's ABSOLUTELY obvious that greens show jagged pixels, expecially when looking at thin greens (zoomed out text, lines, etc) and that yellows are more of a squash color. That was the first thing I noticed when zooming through some sites and playing Angry Birds (having played it on my iPod touch many times before). I then came on this site and read Anandtech's review and found out what a Pentile was.
If you can't tell the difference or shortcomings of a Pentile dispaly vs. a similarly dense display (i.e. the Retina) I can't point to anything else but denial. The screen is nice, but not that nice.
On an unrelated side note, I work in engineering for the modules that guide your fighter jets when you need to see without your eyes. I do wish I could take a ride in one though.
Atrix screen and HDMI sample videos
Last night I went to a concert and taped the show. The screen remained on for the entire 2 hours and still had 70% battery power left. If I were on my previous Captivate it would not have lasted 2 hours. It would seem the same people unhappy with the Atrix screen would be unhappy with the battery life if the Atrix had a different screen. I have posted this before: the Atrix screen is perfectly fine, even better than fine considering its efficiency. I have several hi res (720p) movies that look absolutely wonderful on the Atrix. Colors and resolution look beautiful. The colors do not have the super saturation of the Captivate, but still perfectly fine. Motorola should have provided some sample videos, but they didn't.
I was in the AT&T store playing around with the docks. There are 4 720p sample videos on the phone apparently only available thru HDMI. If someone could post those videos here so we can all have a look at them that may help quiet the screen concerns.
dLo GSR said:
You started a topic that ONLY quotes Wikipedia?
Regardless of what the article says, I know what my eyes see. Pixelation of small-scale text, terrible washed out yellows, and super pixelated greens.
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It's not so much pixelated, but pixel-less. Text is undeniably sharper on the Atrix than it was on the Captivate.
kkeo said:
It's not so much pixelated, but pixel-less. Text is undeniably sharper on the Atrix than it was on the Captivate.
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I don't disagree with that, but when you look at green text there us definitely a difference vs other colors.
Sent from my MB860 using XDA App
Techcruncher said:
I compared the atrix to every other phone in a verizon store. Everything except the iphone 4 had a worse display.
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aside from the iphone 4 which ofcourse has a better screen..
why would i want to go with an atrix screen and not a super amoled screen if i can see the pixels on both screens. yet the super amoled has better blacks and better colors in general ?
mind you i have used all phones including the atrix " even though it was a short period of time "
I am happy with the screen. It is not perfect, but then it is a mobile phone.
If i want awesome colors and deep blacks I have a rockin' 54" plasma. If I want super clear high resolution fonts, I got a great monitor.
I will trade a perfect phone screen for better battery any day. And for me, this pentile display is damn near perfect.
Blind_Guardian said:
Your vision must be failing or you have chosen to ignore it.
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Lol nice one or maybe he is hypnotizing himself that the Pentile display is acceptable because he doesn't want to go through the trouble of returning the dual core webtop phone LOL :-D
But seriously SUPER AMOLED screen has very vibrant color which I actually like but the battery life is bad for web browsing. I wish they have sepcial designed webpage viewer to create black background and white text for SUPER AMOLED screen to conserve battery life.
Finally, I think I've gotten used to the Pentile screen color. Its not really good bit at least its acceptable eventhough the color are distorted and not sure if software can solve the color issue.
Sent from my MB860 using XDA Premium App
So, everyone is complaining about the Atrix display? What about the cellphones dating back from the 1990's? I bet the display was pretty ****ty too. Oh wait, i dont see anyone complaining. Did any of you know about Pentile display back then? NO!?
Please spare us the comparison of what display is better etc..
Here is an idea. Why dont the rest of the ppl who complain about Pentile/SAMOLED etc..invent your own display? simple as that.
You dont like the display on the phone, DONT BUY IT! Stop whining about it.
A few of my main issues with this phone are as follows:
-green tint on screen
-somewhat insensitive touch sceen (Evo screen is a lot more responsive and less prone to miss touches)
-very short battery life 5-6 hours of my typical use) My Evo battery lasts twice as long.
-radio issues
-cheap, slippery plastic (prone to scratch and fly out of your hand)
-speaker can in-call volume not very loud. (though it does sound good, imo)
Overall the Nexus does not have that premium feel that a "Google Experience" flagship phone should have IMO. The LG Optimus (free on contract) feels better, and has rubberized case. If LG can do that on a cheap entry level Android phone, why can't (money bags) Google?
Obviously these are just my opinions, but it seems like Google will lose out on sales when their *Flagship* phone feels cheap, but costs $550 off contract! Expecially when it it sitting next to phones which feel a lot more sturdy, do not have green/yellow tinted screens, etc.
I never liked the Epic because it feels cheap and hollow. The Nexus does not feel hollow, but is does feel just as cheap. Hopefully for the next Google phone they will get a better hardware partner!
The biggest thorn in my Nexus S experience still remains the typing, and more specifically the double-letter glitch with the first letter of words. It's ridiculous. I'll get sentences like this, "Hey Bob, hhow is it going ttoday?" Frequently. Then sometimes it'll even repeat the first two letters of a word, for example, like "ththis." This becomes especially obnoxious with two letter words, like "I'm walking toto the park."
It is a known issue, but Google has yet to address this: http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=14755
I'm pretty blown away by your post.
I've never owned a phone that feels as nice and classy as my Nexus S. It makes my old Evo feel like a side-show freak compared to my Supermodel Nexus.
My screen looks absolutely spectacular.
My battery life ABSOLUTELY BLOWS AWAY my Evo battery life. I go all day (and sometimes into the next day) on one charge STOCK, whereas I had to undervolt and mod the **** out of my Evo to get maybe 10 hours.
I did find typing easier on my Evo, but I've always attributed it to the larger screen.
matt2053 said:
I'm pretty blown away by your post.
I've never owned a phone that feels as nice and classy as my Nexus S. It makes my old Evo feel like a side-show freak compared to my Supermodel Nexus.
My screen looks absolutely spectacular.
My battery life ABSOLUTELY BLOWS AWAY my Evo battery life. I go all day (and sometimes into the next day) on one charge STOCK, whereas I had to undervolt and mod the **** out of my Evo to get maybe 10 hours.
I did find typing easier on my Evo, but I've always attributed it to the larger screen.
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I agree with all the points here. I've only had my Nexus 2 days but it's far superior to the Evo. It's faster, smoother, slicker, and has noticeably longer battery life. My only complaints are the lack of a notification light (which, honestly, I've not missed at all) and low external speaker volume.
I noticed the strange green or yellowish tint to the screen as well. I noticed if you turn the brightness all the way up it helps. Or if you're on CM, use a theme that display battery and signal in a color other than green in the status bar.
My one biggest complaint is really how noticeable pixels are on letters and some images. I was looking at some other phones and I found the screens to look a little more crisp. (Is this attributed to a higher resolution or PPI?)
The next point that bugs me is the body. Yes, it's gorgeous, yes it's light and easy to handle... but it -does- scratch and ding easily.
In terms of differences in screen colors (tints - some are green, some beige, etc), battery life, etc., these things go to show the inconsistencies in this cheap Samsung hardware.
I know it is easy to pick up a new phone and feel like wow, this thing is awesome. But once I saw all the issues with this Nexus, and went back to the Evo...while heavier, the Evo feels much better, and is a much better experience overall. From typing, to sound quality to screen sensitivity, scratch resistance, LEDs, larger screen, etc. The only thing I really like more on the Nexus is the camera - while lower resolution is has less noise, and the edges of the lens are sharper than the Evo's.
While I do not care about 3D images, I am now looking forward to the Evo 3D, which is thankfully narrower than the Evo 4g.
Anyway, to each his own. I am not trying to convince anyone to agree with me. Just stating where I stand.
gmap516 said:
I noticed the strange green or yellowish tint to the screen as well. I noticed if you turn the brightness all the way up it helps. Or if you're on CM, use a theme that display battery and signal in a color other than green in the status bar.
My one biggest complaint is really how noticeable pixels are on letters and some images. I was looking at some other phones and I found the screens to look a little more crisp. (Is this attributed to a higher resolution or PPI?)
The next point that bugs me is the body. Yes, it's gorgeous, yes it's light and easy to handle... but it -does- scratch and ding easily.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's because of the pixel matrix. AMOLED is a fundamentally different technology than LCD - LCD panels push a white backlight through a grid of color-changing pixels whereas AMOLED basically consists of a grid of LEDs that emit their own light. It's a very new technology and obviously it has a bit of room to mature.
gmap516 said:
I noticed the strange green or yellowish tint to the screen as well. I noticed if you turn the brightness all the way up it helps. Or if you're on CM, use a theme that display battery and signal in a color other than green in the status bar.
My one biggest complaint is really how noticeable pixels are on letters and some images. I was looking at some other phones and I found the screens to look a little more crisp. (Is this attributed to a higher resolution or PPI?)
The next point that bugs me is the body. Yes, it's gorgeous, yes it's light and easy to handle... but it -does- scratch and ding easily.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree that the pixels are visible for some reason on the Nexus. It is not a deal breaker, but it is surprising when you read so many people saying how awesome the screen is. (to answer your question, higher resolution would mean LESS visible pixels.)
And while turning up brightness does help with the tint, my battery reading states that at times the screen is consuming more than 80% of the battery! ouch. Right now it says Display=66%)
And many reviews refer to the tinted LCD - it drives me mad. I am a photographer, and so maybe I am more sensitive to it than some.
I think the body of this thing would be helped hugely if if was the same shape, weight and size, but made of better materials! And the slippery plastic makes it NEED a case according to me, and with a silicon case it is LARGER than an Evo. (same width, but taller... Better build materials would solve the need for the case)
It only bothers me when the screen is on its highest brightness setting and when I'm reading white text on black. Otherwise, I think it displays things pretty nicely. I only notice some pixels around a few images. I bought this on May 14th, 14 days short to exchange it out for an Evo3D. I'm kind of on the fence about it though... On one hand, I think it's a really nice phone (but maybe it's not for me?) On the other, I can't picture myself really needing an Evo3D, but if the display and signal are better... who knows?
(Off topic: If I return or exchange this nexus do I have 30 days with the new phone? I may get a temporary if I decide to do that)
Gmap, yes your 30 days starts over, but they may charge you $35 for "restocking." Though there will probably not be a fee if you exchange it for the same phone.
Thanks dude! I'll have to look around at other phones and compare the screens. Does the 3D screen on the EVO3D compromise the quality at all?
The 3d screen will be more contrasty and higher resolution than the current Evo...and the new phone's shape is more narrow as well.
It's really starting to grow on me. Don't get me wrong, anyone, I think the Nexus is a great phone but maybe not for me.
you can see pixels because the nexus's amoled screen actually has lower resolution compared to the LCD version, AMOLED has a pentile pixel layout, which means it has half the red and blue pixels compared to the lcd one.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PenTile_matrix_family#PenTile_RGBG
spamlucal said:
you can see pixels because the nexus's amoled screen actually has lower resolution compared to the LCD version, AMOLED has a pentile pixel layout, which means it has half the red and blue pixels compared to the lcd one.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PenTile_matrix_family#PenTile_RGBG
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You are correct that the difference is due to AMOLED vs LCD, but the resolution is the same on each, 800x480.
matt2053 said:
You are correct that the difference is due to AMOLED vs LCD, but the resolution is the same on each, 800x480.
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Click to collapse
Each "pixel" on the Nexus S screen has 2 subpixels: one green and one red or blue. The pattern goes Green Blue Green Red Green Blue Green Red etc
Each "pixel" on an LCD screen has 3 subpixels: one green, one red, one blue. The pattern goes Green Blue Red Green Blue Red etc.
jonnythan said:
Each "pixel" on the Nexus S screen has 2 subpixels: one green and one red or blue. The pattern goes Green Blue Green Red Green Blue Green Red etc
Each "pixel" on an LCD screen has 3 subpixels: one green, one red, one blue. The pattern goes Green Blue Red Green Blue Red etc.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Got it. But, the resolution is still 800x480 on each device. Each device displays 384,000 pixels at a time regardless of "sub-pixel" structure, right?
jonnythan said:
Each "pixel" on the Nexus S screen has 2 subpixels: one green and one red or blue. The pattern goes Green Blue Green Red Green Blue Green Red etc
Each "pixel" on an LCD screen has 3 subpixels: one green, one red, one blue. The pattern goes Green Blue Red Green Blue Red etc.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In addition,
The human eye is most sensitive to green, especially for high resolution luminance information. Thus the RG-BG scheme [AMOLED] creates a color display with one third fewer subpixels than a traditional RGB-RGB scheme [LCD] but with the same perceived display resolution.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PenTile_matrix_family#PenTile_RGBG
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Click to collapse
matt2053 said:
Got it. But, the resolution is still 800x480 on each device. Each device displays 384,000 pixels at a time regardless of "sub-pixel" structure, right?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Each pixel on an LCD can display any color.
Each pixel on an AMOLED screen can display either any combination of green\red OR any combination of green\blue.
It's a subtle difference, but it is a difference and it's why the Nexus S screen can look a little weird when you look closely, particularly at complex color patterns, especially when talking grays. On an AMOLED screen, an individual pixel can't be gray.
jonnythan said:
Each pixel on an LCD can display any color.
Each pixel on an AMOLED screen can display either any combination of green\red OR any combination of green\blue.
It's a subtle difference, but it is a difference and it's why the Nexus S screen can look a little weird when you look closely, particularly at complex color patterns, especially when talking grays. On an AMOLED screen, an individual pixel can't be gray.
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I definitely notice. My opinion is the vivid colors and amazing contrast make the trade off totally worth it and I prefer the AMOLED.
I was only being "nit-picky" because you used the term resolution. Regardless I learned something here today, so thanks!
Most reasonable people viewing the GNote pentile screen say it is bright, has high contrast, deep blacks and a sharp image.
It is a 24bit Millions of colours screen.
So why the hatred of pentile?
It's got me f#^ked.
Maybe it is due to old arguments that date back years.
There is an old controversy going around between pentile and LCD proponents, which is apples vs oranges because there are pentile lcd's and rgb oled's.
The controversy is, that pentiles use less sub-pixels and therefore should be rated as such in lower pixel density.
This ignores how vision works, which essentially is an illusion.
To disagree is to dismiss basic Buddhism and modern psychology as well as film theory on visual perception.
At the level of pixels, the illusion of vision breaks down for lcd as well as pentile screens.
So while looking at a pentile screen with a magnifying glass can be scary, it is the same for rgb's.
So why did Samsung go back to using the pentile matrix instead of RGB for the Note?
Only guessing, but some of the advantages of pentile are;
Cuts power consumption in half for equivalent brightness, or
Doubles screen brightness for equivalent power
Achieves higher resolution
Provides flexible settings for color control and power savings
Increases cost savings potential and yield for manufacturers
Accelerates adoption of next-generation devices
Makes text easier to read
nuvoyance.com
Contrary to the hype, pentiles allow higher resolution, all the while using much less power. Talk about a no-brainer.
One of the limitations of the pentile is a cross hatched pattern seen on the edge of some images, like a border between red and white, when seen up close(with a magnifying glass). This is so at lower pixel densities but "for higher pixel densities you stand to gain from PenTile" ; is the PenTile matrix bad for you?
More technical info:
PenTile blog
OLED-A
Achieve higher resolution - yes, but already given a 1280 x800 resolution, would you prefer it to be pentile or RGB?
No one is complaining about pentile can give higher resolution, its not like we want 800x480 RGB over 1280x800 pentile. But already given the phone is 1280x800, people would rather it be super amoled plus instead of pentile super amoled.
While pentile consumes less power, super amoled screens sucks power like crazy. It is a fact. But that said, i still think the screen is gorgreous. however if you let me choose - RGB over pentile any day.
GALAXYNOTE said:
Achieve higher resolution - yes, but already given a 1280 x800 resolution, would you prefer it to be pentile or RGB?
No one is complaining about pentile can give higher resolution, its not like we want 800x480 RGB over 1280x800 pentile. But already given the phone is 1280x800, people would rather it be super amoled plus instead of pentile super amoled.
While pentile consumes less power, super amoled screens sucks power like crazy. It is a fact. But that said, i still think the screen is gorgreous. however if you let me choose - RGB over pentile any day.
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Given a 1280 x800 resolution, I would prefer it to be pentile as it will look better.
Perceived resolution.
Pentile consumes 50% less power than RGB.
Xaddict said:
Pentile consumes 50% less power than RGB.
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Well if you are not talking about super amoled, then yes a pentile layout consumes theoretically 33% less power.
If you are strictly comparing pentile RGBG/RGBW to RGB, pentile looks like sh*t i gotta say. At least my atrix did.
Pentile also ages better than sRGB amoled, because the lifespan of the organic amoled subpixels are different from color to color. The pentile ages better because there are simply more subpixels of the color which has the lowest lifespan.
epicfailguy2 said:
Pentile also ages better than sRGB amoled, because the lifespan of the organic amoled subpixels are different from color to color. The pentile ages better because there are simply more subpixels of the color which has the lowest lifespan.
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The color which has the lowest lifespan is blue, from what i can recall)
How does RGBG or RGBW have more blue subpixels than RGB? (I am only asking just wanted to know.)
GALAXYNOTE said:
Well if you are not talking about super amoled, then yes a pentile layout consumes theoretically 33% less power.
If you are strictly comparing pentile RGBG/RGBW to RGB, pentile looks like sh*t i gotta say. At least my atrix did.
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Well, comparing the Note screen(pentile) to the SGII screen(rgb), opinions vary, but the Note screen looks better to me.
GALAXYNOTE said:
The color which has the lowest lifespan is blue, from what i can recall)
How does RGBG or RGBW have more blue subpixels than RGB? (I am only asking just wanted to know.)
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More green than blue.
Xaddict said:
Well, comparing the Note screen(pentile) to the SGII screen(rgb), opinions vary, but the Note screen looks better to me.
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Actually I gotta agree with you on that. My gf had a SGS II and that blue tint bugged the hell outta me. I dont know what they done to it, but i dont think it was a problem with it being RGB.
Pentile suffers from strange color tints on whites.
Hard time rendering shades of gray.
Strange artifacts in low-light conditions.
Ofc all noise is camouflaged by the high resolution.
I would trade for the S-LCD screen of the Rezound any-day,
the only problem with that screen is that it could use abit deeper blacks.
MartijnMM said:
Pentile suffers from strange color tints on whites.
Hard time rendering shades of gray.
Strange artifacts in low-light conditions.
Ofc all noise is camouflaged by the high resolution.
I would trade for the SRGB screen of the Rezound any-day,
the only problem with that screen is that it could use abit deeper blacks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think this is related to OLED and not Pentile.
The Note screen does seem bluish to me when seen from an angle.
I don't see problems with grey on the Note.
I have view gradients to test the 24bit resolution and if viewed in a 24bit app, 24bit images look fine, otherwise not, but this is not an intrinsic fault of the Note's screen, only of the low res images or apps.
I'm not going to go back through and quote people, but some people said some things that are downright incorrect. Pentile does NOT "increase the resolution." It does exactly the opposite, decreasing it. Pentile has half the red subpixels and half the blue subpixels that RGB does; that means overall, pentile only has 2/3 the pixel elements that an RGB screen has. You can't display more information with fewer pixel elements.
The unpleasant artifacts I notice on pentile screens are small text, lines, graphics, appear fuzzy and sometimes colored on the edges, and when I look at solid colors that use red and blue (i.e.just about everything but solid green) especially white, I get this screen door effect. It's almost like there's a bit of checkerboard pattern to the solid color rather than being uniform. Hold your phone closer to your face and look at a solid white area, especially try to find a solid white area that is next to a solid green area with the brightness turned up all the way and you'll really see what I'm talking about.
Pentile doesn't necessarily use less energy than RGB. There are fewer subpixels, but they're twice as large and put out twice as much light. Energy in = light out. So in theory, the energy should be exactly the same. Perhaps they've found some way to do pentile a little more efficiently on some phones, but it's not an overall rule at all.
Pentile is used because it allows them to make the blues twice as big. Since they had a problem with short life span on those, making them twice as big made them hardier, longer lived, and higher yields in the manufacturing process. That's the ONLY reason for pentile. You could say this allows manufacturers to build higher resolution displays than they otherwise would be capable of (since they're cheating and using larger blues than an RGB would have) but a 1280x800 pentile is NOT "higher resolution" than a 1280x800 RGB! According to definition, they're the exact same resolution, but in reality, the pentile is lower in resolution.
RGB is ALWAYS better than pentile as far as image quality. The reason the Note's screen looks better than the SGSII, even though the SGSII had RGB, is simply because it has a much higher resolution. The benefits from that outweigh the negatives of pentile.
Here's a pic I put together showing the differences, even though you can find the same thing elsewhere on the net:
Thanks for summing that up =) Can we go on now and accept Sammy's gone cheap on us?
I really am not too bothered about what screen the phone uses as long as it looks good, i do think to me it looks fantastic. Lovely and bright and it displays a fantastic picture. If people dont like a particular screen a phone uses then they have the choice not to buy it. Some posts in here are very informative so in that respect thanks. However people that ***** about the phones screen (not necessarily in this thread) have the choice to return it and wait for the screen of their choice to come out.
Sent from my GT-N7000 using xda premium
maxh said:
The unpleasant artifacts I notice .......
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The general public isn't noticing these artifacts, which makes me think they made the right decision on this one. After all, the General public would definitely notice a higher battery drain. I won't pretend to know the technical details about why Pentile battery usage < RGB.
maxh said:
Hold your phone closer to your face and look at a solid white area .... with the brightness turned up all the way and you'll really see what I'm talking about.
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Probably - but it's not interesting if that's not how you generally use your phone.
I wish I could find the interview, but they interviewed a samsung executive who was quite candid about the whole thing. He said quite clearly that Amoled + is sharper than Pentile. But he said that they went Pentile because in terms of sharpness, Amoled is good enough (i.e. still fantastic) - production is better (i.e. it's cheaper to make) and uses less battery power.
And they are correct. I've watched/read many many reviews of the GNote. For the most part, they all rave about the Screen, complain about the price, and are happy with the battery.
It would have been a mistake to put AMOLED+ in, and have the reviews (still) rave about the Screen, be even more turned off by the price, and only be 'okay' with the battery. (perhaps even complaining about it, saying 'Luckily it has a huge battery, because otherwise you'd be toast)
The GNote is already a niche device - you want to widen its appeal as much as possible.
- Frank
Don't get me wrong, I'm very happy with my Note, including the screen. Search my posts and you'll see me say that several times. I'm a long time pentile hater from the day I first powered on my nexus one and started wondering what was wrong with the screen. Yet I've said several times that the Note's so awesome and the screen otherwise so beautiful that I'm able to overlook the pentile layout.
However I'm not going to read people claiming that pentile is better than RGB without speaking up, because it's not.
maxh said:
Pentile does NOT "increase the resolution." It does exactly the opposite, decreasing it
...
Pentile is used because it allows them to make the blues twice as big. Since they had a problem with short life span on those, making them twice as big made them hardier, longer lived, and higher yields in the manufacturing process. That's the ONLY reason for pentile. You could say this allows manufacturers to build higher resolution displays than they otherwise would be capable of (since they're cheating and using larger blues than an RGB would have) but a 1280x800 pentile is NOT "higher resolution" than a 1280x800 RGB! According to definition, they're the exact same resolution, but in reality, the pentile is lower in resolution.
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(This isn't meant to be a hostile response, I apologise if it comes across that way - it's absolutely not intended)
It doesn't directly, no. But you then go on to point out exactly how it enables much higher pixel densities - in an RGB layout each sub-pixel is the same size, so they need to make the blue sub-pixel at a viable size (as you said,) then make green and red sub-pixels that are the same size again.
On a PenTile screen, they can print the blue sub-pixel at it's required size, but the green component can be much smaller - and as a result, you can fit more pixels into the same space. If you compare the Galaxy Nexus's 316ppi PenTile screen to the S2's 216ppi RGB screen, you'll find that the blue and red sub-pixels are actually of a comparable width.
Sure RGBRGB is technically superior to RGBG in terms of image quality, but after a certain pixel-density:distance ratio, it just doesn't matter anymore, and allows for a greater pixel density regardless of display technology.
As a point of curiosity (I know you gave this first point, I'm just elaborating,) resolution is a measure of the number of horizontal or vertical alternating black and white lines a display can produce while maintaining a certain level of contrast. PenTile screens actually are their advertised resolution. However low-density RGBG will lose some detail in reds, but greens are still fine, and the human eye can't see enough detail in blue to tell a difference there. That's in general though - obviously there are biological differences in people, and that is where the legitimate complaints come from - not from holding a phone 3 inches from your face.
As for whether RGB or PenTile is better - consider that the Galaxy Nexus's 4.65" screen could fit either 1280x720 RG/BG pixels, or 960x540 RGB pixels, and it's too dense to be able to tell the difference in sub-pixel arrangement. I think PenTile actually is better in that case.
small dots and big dots
okay so everyone is forgetting that not so long ago printers used to print using
only one size dot of ink. well the picture from same size dots looked grainy. so the print people came up with different size dots of ink to make the pictures look
amazing. i look at the pentile displays the same way. in comparison the
screens on rgb screens look blocky to me and those on pentile look smoother and
less grainy. iphone just shrank the dots to where the human eye can't detect
them. but i believe to acheive the same thing on a larger screen isn't very
pratical. that's where different size pixels will make images appear smooth.
Some great info that dispels some pentile myths can be found here - http://pentileblog.com/uncategorized/pentile-for-720-hd-oled-smartphones/.
Put simply, a lot of the criticisms of pentile displays are only relevant to particular implementations, and not necessarily to the technology.
Regards,
Dave
Sent from my GT-N7000 using Tapatalk
I looked at the Note screen under a loupe and I could see a serrated edge along the top of white text on a black bacground. If I looked at it normally I couldn't tell. In this case the pentile doesn't bug me.
What DOES bug me is the low color depth that the Note displays. It is odd as it is inconsistant. If I look at photos it is fine. Some apps though look like the color depth is drastically reduced. Two apps to test are Angry birds Rio, and Google Sky. In AB look at the sky and clouds on the title screen, the shades all blend smooth on other devices (checked on an Infuse). On the Note there is severe color loss and much banding evident. Same with google sky There are these sky gradients, smoother on other OLED screens like the Infuse, much more bandy on the Note. I don't know why on some things like photos the note looks fine, but in many apps color loss and banding is evident. Maybe it is some weird incompatibility of the apps? Maybe they mis-read the screen capability and drop to low color mode? I don't know but it is weird and bothers me much more than the pentile matrix.
The lack of AMOLED is currently the only reason I haven't switched to a Sony device yet, so I just wanted a thread to gauge interest in having AMOLED screens on future devices.
I know the pros and cons of both AMOLED and LCD/IPS so there's not much point discussing those unless you really want to.
Don't necessarily care for it. More interested in a 5.5 or 5.7 inch screen.
Amoled can be better for the battery but I dislike the screen burn that occurs after a year or so. (Can vary based on how much phone is used.)
Sent from my SM-G900P
AMOLED looks real nice but between burn in and extra battery drain on light colors, I'll stick with LCD.
Sent from my LG-D851 using Tapatalk
I much prefer IPS over AMOLED. AMOLED is overly saturated and typically in a pentile subpixel arragement leading to an inferior amount of subpixels.
IPS is one of the reasons I prefer Sony devices.
I can still see the pixellation in AMOLED screens, even in the Galaxy S5. Most people don't notice it, but I do - and because I know it's there, it will always bother me. AMOLED has poor color reproduction, and the screen has the potential to burn in (review units at any big box store are almost invariably burned in, even after only two weeks of constantly being on).
IPS LCD is the only thing I will consider.
IPS+ LCD is the best vivid display with true-to-life colours, especially with x-reality and Triluminos display.
Gorgenapper said:
at any big box store are almost invariably burned in, even after only two weeks of constantly being on).
IPS LCD is the only thing I will consider.
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npaladin2000 said:
AMOLED looks real nice but between burn in and extra battery drain on light colors, I'll stick with LCD.
Sent from my LG-D851 using Tapatalk
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Burn in has stopped being a problem a long time ago. I have a Note 2, no burn in issues, nor on my Note 1 before, or Galaxy S2 or Galaxy S before that.
You should have the screen auto switch-off after 10 minutes (or less) anyway, it will just drain the battery. The reason you see demo models getting burn in is because they never switch the screen off. I thought that was obvious, but I guess not..
wrsg said:
Burn in has stopped being a problem a long time ago. I have a Note 2, no burn in issues, nor on my Note 1 before, or Galaxy S2 or Galaxy S before that.
You should have the screen auto switch-off after 10 minutes (or less) anyway, it will just drain the battery. The reason you see demo models getting burn in is because they never switch the screen off. I thought that was obvious, but I guess not..
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Right, but even if you don't consider burn-in, AMOLED definitely has it's tradeoffs. LG, Sony, Apple, HTC all use IPS LCD. Off the top of my head Samsung and Motorola are the only companies using AMOLED in high end devices, definitely the minority, not the majority.
Also keep in mind that the Note 2 does not use the typical pentile matrix that most AMOLED panels use
se1000 said:
Right, but even if you don't consider burn-in, AMOLED definitely has it's tradeoffs. LG, Sony, Apple, HTC all use IPS LCD. Off the top of my head Samsung and Motorola are the only companies using AMOLED in high end devices, definitely the minority, not the majority.
Also keep in mind that the Note 2 does not use the typical pentile matrix that most AMOLED panels use
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Just because it's the minority doesn't make it inherently bad. It's less used because it's more expensive, which is why Samsung and Motorola devices are usually more expensive than the others.
It has its tradeoffs but it also has benefits, less battery draw, more comfortable on the eyes, better contrast (imo). A lot of it is subjective, but I just want to raise awareness of the benefits and hopefully get more people asking the companies for AMOLED.
The day Sony introduce AMOLED, that's the day I will for sure stop supporting them.
Less battery draw is situational. Only when you're dealing with dark apps will there be less battery draw, since black pixels draw no power on AMOLED. Looking at Facebook or websites or other things with a lot of bright or white backgrounds requires more pixels to be lit up, thereby consuming more power.
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npaladin2000 said:
Less battery draw is situational. Only when you're dealing with dark apps will there be less battery draw, since black pixels draw no power on AMOLED. Looking at Facebook or websites or other things with a lot of bright or white backgrounds requires more pixels to be lit up, thereby consuming more power.
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Untrue
http://www.electronicsnews.com.au/news/oleds-ready-for-the-mainstream
wrsg said:
Untrue
http://www.electronicsnews.com.au/news/oleds-ready-for-the-mainstream
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That article was from TWO THOUSAND AND NINE!!!!!! A lot has changed for both technologies. Overall, I would say AMOLED and LCD are pretty close, with the edge actually going to LCD these days. Just lookup different devices with the same specs and look at screen on time figure. For example, the G2 had better screen on time figures than the S4 by a long shot (and I believe the S5 as well)
I'm in no way saying that AMOLED is bad by any means, I'm just saying that it isn't a superior technology either.
Personally as long as a screen has +400ppi it's really going to be sharp from any reasonable viewing distance. IPS has made strides in contrast ratio and color accuracy (gamut). AMOLED has improved in green/blue cast, and the ppi increases have negated the pentile issue.
In the end, a good screen is a good screen.
wrsg said:
Untrue
http://www.electronicsnews.com.au/news/oleds-ready-for-the-mainstream
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You should understand that battery drain doesn't only comprise of the display itself. You must take other things into considerations. (wakelock, background apps, etc.) And if you really talk about display wise, it's true that AMOLED display allows better saturation in terms of colours and also better contrast ratio due to the no-black-pixel lighting up, but on light surfaces it still suffers on battery drain. You want a phone without such issues? Just go back to Nokia 3310 then
And if AMOLED screen is as expensive as an IPS+ LCD screen, I suggest you go check with factories and see how much it's actually made. From my source, they would either practically be the same price, or IPS+ screen tends to be slightly more expensive.
Display is always personal preferences. I'd rather an IPS+ screen due to the natural colors that it produce and it really stands out on the Z2/Z3 as I had hands-on on both of them. And if you are going to discuss this, why not head towards the General Android section? There will be a hell lot of people which will be throwing a lot of facts out making you understand better. No point making this discussion here. Not like Sony will ever go for AMOLED display. They'd rather the real colors then over-saturated and unnatural colors.
I don't want a phone with AMOLED, because the color representation isn't accurate as IPS.
What I would like to see is a phone with LCD IPS display lightened by RGB LED, most LCD panels use WLED (white LED).
RGB LED increase the color representation and color contrast.
When you see small tracks on a solid color picture (from light blue to dark blue for example) it's a problem that RGB LED don't suffer from.
Sent from my Xperia Z2 using Tapatalk
I wouldn't say IPS is a deal breaker to me but, oh man, Z3 would be catching my attention much more with a Amoled display. I was using a Galaxy s4 and now I'm on moto g (gave the s4 to my wife) and I really miss the dark blacks. The blacks on ips is just a light gray.
As the Note4 Display has just been tested as the best mobile display currently available, there is no reasonable argument not to opt for AMOLED in the future - except availability and price.
This includes brightness, color accuracy AND brightness as well as efficiency!
Based on our extensive Lab tests and measurements, the Galaxy Note 4 is the Best performing Smartphone display that we have ever tested. It matches or breaks new records in Smartphone display performance for: Highest Absolute Color Accuracy, Highest Screen Resolution, Infinite Contrast Ratio, Highest Peak Brightness, Highest Contrast Rating in Ambient Light, and the smallest Brightness Variation with Viewing Angle. Its Color Management capability provides multiple Color Gamuts – a major advantage that is not currently provided by any of the other leading Smartphones
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http://www.displaymate.com/Galaxy_Note4_ShootOut_1.htm
Bäcker said:
As the Note4 Display has just been tested as the best mobile display currently available, there is no reasonable argument not to opt for AMOLED in the future - except availability and price.
This includes brightness, color accuracy AND brightness as well as efficiency!
http://www.displaymate.com/Galaxy_Note4_ShootOut_1.htm
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Indeed, people seem to be either grossly misinformed or because X brand uses LCD instead of OLED, they've either become a fanboy of the former or opponent of the latter. Samsung's newer AMOLEDs are hands down the best mobile displays available. There isn't even any competition, to claim otherwise is silly.
They offer far better blacks, contrast ratio (which is vital on a mobile - daylight and outdoors), much wider colour gamut (and accuracy) than any *mobile* IPS panel and lower power draw. Aside from this, pixel responsiveness is effectively instant; for motion, games and overall fluidity and responsiveness they are MASSIVELY better than IPS .. this is the reason the Samsung phones seem so smooth (not because they're faster or have some kind of software or driver based special sauce). Also, because the panel is less brittle, it's less likely to suffer catastrophic damage or the glass/plastic cover smash or crack. They also use fewer toxic substances than LCDs.
As far as I'm concerned, the only other game in town is Sharp's IZGO technology. This because it can potentially eliminate bezels much more easily than competing display tech (see latest Sharp phones), and it reduces IPS-like panels' power draw.
The Quantom Dot filters in Amazon's Kindle tablet do improve colours and blacks a little, but it's really expensive at the moment, and is perhaps a better partner for VA panels, which have much deeper blacks and better contrast than IPS (Sony uses QD filters in their Triluminos VA panel TVs). Also they use Cadmium Selenide, and Cadmium is a very nasty substance.
Emissive Quantum Dot (once they have eliminated Cadmium) is perhaps the holy grail, in a few years time, since it should have none of the longevity issues of OLEDs, and all of the low power, (potentially) low cost, high gamut, high responsiveness benefits.
Anyway, for now I'll be happy with my Z3 Compact that'll be arriving early next week, and use it to complement my Jolla, hopefully with a Sailfish port in due time .... but a Samsung AMOLED screen on a Z4 or 5 Compact would only make it more desirable, in my view.
mudnightoil said:
this is the reason the Samsung phones seem so smooth
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Frankly that is a laughable statement, as Samsung Android devices are anything but smooth given their TouchWIZ-based bloat.
mudnightoil said:
The Quantom Dot filters in Amazon's Kindle tablet do improve colours and blacks a little, but it's really expensive at the moment, and is perhaps a better partner for VA panels, which have much deeper blacks and better contrast than IPS (Sony uses QD filters in their Triluminos VA panel TVs).
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The Xperia Z3 is supposed to be using Triluminous technology that includes quantum dots. That will probably have to be confirmed once the phones are released, since in the past there have been Triluminous phones without incorporating quantum dots, but the possibility exists.
While there are some things I like about AMOLED, unless you have content optimized for it, it's very battery inefficient. And the most popular smartphone applications are generally things like Facebook, web browsing, and a few other things that still don't offer a "dark" mode optimized for AMOLED, that minimizes the number of lit background pixels. White backgrounds are not a friend of AMOLED. .