Database Users

Calling out all you iPhone haters!

Seriously - I've read some of the most ignorant, bigoted, and asinine comments around here about the iPhone. Everyone seems to despise it. Please, explain to me why?
Is it left over hatred from PC vs. Mac? Do you not realize this is a different industry? Do you not realize that all your Mac vs. PC opinion were formed 15 years ago and that things have changed since then?
Or is it something else? You just feel uncomfortable having another big player in the market? Another $600 phone that people can buy. Do you feel uncomfortable that the "smartphone" (definitions aside) market is expanding to include people who wouldn't traditionally be interested in such devices? Are you threatened now that everyone will compare your HTC to an iPhone? Are you pissed off because deep down you know you have a second rate device now?
I mean I really want to know. People on the forum seem to know nothing about the iPhone and yet hate it vehemently. People here know less about it than my grandma, which is amazing considering you're all hardware geeks.
So can we just lay off the player hatin'? The iPhone is what it is. It's a foundation device that is turning the industry upside-down - and in a good way no matter which side your on. They're the first company to design a mobile device from the ground up with usability in mind. That has got to count for something.
Have you tried Safari on the iPhone? I can tell you this now - it blows EVERY mobile browser I've ever used out of the water - and I've tried them all. Have you tried the keyboard? I think with practice I could be just as fast as on my 8525, if not faster. Have you played with the camera or the map? It's smooth, people ... and unless you've tried it you don't know what you're talking about.
You can hate on the iPhone because it's bubbly and shiny and a threat to your geekdom. But give it a little credit - it really is a futuristic device with futuristic features (yea, I admit it's missing some basic stuff - but come on, it's 1st gen). It's the first mass-appeal phone to hit the market running a *nix core. In a few years all your windows mobile devices will look exactly the same and you'll praise how genius Microsoft is for designing such a good phone.
Admit it, without Apple the next version of Windows Mobile would be another use-your-stylus-for-everything interface hell. I think now that we have the iPhone WM7 is going to be anything but less user friendly.

Um, okay. You're still gay.

I agree

iPhone...............Muhahahahahahahah!!!!!!!!!!!
If "I" had $600.00 and I wanted something "like" an iPod & something Like a phone........ I'd do the following....
1. Buy an Apple 80 Gig iPod(10 times the storage of the iPhone). I can do pictures, movies, etc....etc...etc....
2. Buy a Good Windows Mobile Phone that I can process documents, send MMS messages, manage my contacts etc "WITHOUT" having to plug into that pain in the rear "iTUNES"....................
3. In case you haven't quite figured it out.......while Apple was "Re-inventing" the "Mobile Phone".......they were also conjuring up very solid ways to seperate you, from your hard earned GOLD........ Example you ask......ok, most other phones you can swap the sim card in other countries and use their networks to SAVE YOUR GOLD......... with this piece of Sh## you have to "ROAM" on AT&T's very expensive "International Calling or Roaming Plans...... If you haven't heard of "Skype" you may want to "GOOGLE" it..... you can make VoIP calls for FAR FAR FAR FAR FAR................... less than paying those Humungous International Roaming Rates.......
So continue enjoying that new fangeled what you ma call it.......and keep paying the corporate PIMPS who've produced a very clever way to disguise how to "Pick your Pocket" all the while they're F'ing YOU!!!!!!!!! And I'm sure they love THAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
iPhone you Say?????
I'd RATHER NOT........................................
Just my 2 Cents,
vpu2....OUT!!!!

It's a technological abortion.
Everything the iPhone can do, we have been doing for years, and better.
But the Sheeple are buying up the over-price under-powered piece of crap.
Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

I don't hate the iPhone, I only know that it doesn't have things I would miss. If there was a Safari for Windows mobile I would install and use it. But to buy an iPhone only for Safari I had to be silly. I need other things, such as eTcl, Skype, Viewers for office documents, GPS and I want to replace the SIM card whenever I want.

gthing said:
Seriously - I've read some of the most ignorant, bigoted, and asinine comments around here about the iPhone. Everyone seems to despise it. Please, explain to me why?......
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Click to collapse
i dunno why i hate it..... oh yeh, coz its ****e.,

I don't hate it, I think it will give msoft a well-deserved kick in the rear. However, I'm not buying one because:
I'm in the UK so couldn't even if I wanted to
It does'nt do 3G/HSDPA
It doesn't do Exchange
It doesn't read books!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I can't use more than one SIM card
I can't use an extra battery if travelling
Now, to me these are not 'in depth geek' type things. These are all things I do several times a day and which I have been used to do for years, even from my old Nokia 6610
I consider these very basic things, which 'normal' people need/want to do.
If the Iphone did all these and had an open system where people could design software for it, then I would be saving up my pennies for it now, but so far, it doesn't, so my pennies will be going towards a Kaiser.
At the moment it would be like investing in a huge beautiful state of the art flat screen tv, and then finding out that it could not be connected to satellite or cable. Gorgeous, beautiful, but not very useful.

Simple fact is the iPhone is a bad phone with an iPod grafted into it. I was using Touchscreen ages ago with my Sony P900.......also i was playing MP3s with UnrealPlayer.
ALLOVER the news here (UK) they are saying the phone functions leave alot to be desired and the camera sucks.
Fair enough the camera on the Hermes also sucks but im willing to bet it matches the iPhones effort.
No 3G is stupid, No mms or wifi is also stupid since the ICs available to do ALL these features wouldnt be difficult to implement.
Bottom line is the fashion victims will LOVE the iPhone and lap it up...but all i will hear for months after is how good the new iPhone is...while im nicely playing Quake on the train....watching XviD rips of my DVDs on Coreplayer and downloading stuff at 1.8mbps over HSDPA.
The people who buy iPhone will not like no 3G or MMS.

other then that fact it doesnt do 3g, which that alone would steer me away, other then the fact it doesnt do MMS, i want to love it..but i went to the apple store and tried to text with it..if you send more then 5 text messages a day, you will end up returning your iphone...trust me.

With all the things, listed above (and many where else) that iPhone cannot do, I'm wondering why there are still geeks obsess about it. I know why normal people get obsess about it, as what Prada phone did, I just dont understand, geeks are at a higher level and should understand what iPhone can do and cannot do. We get tons of threat here, just because 'MY PHONE CANNOT USE MP3 AS RINGTONE'. And this iphone, can't even use their iTune (yes, the same company) song as ringtone.. and no one complain about it?!
Anyway, I must admit that, having iPhone is a good thing as it will push things ahead, giving the M$ monopolized market a push. However, iPhone, as with their iPods, are not the best device (yes, there are other better MP3 players than iPod, and NO, Apple is not the first one with MP3 players, just incase you don't know).

are you seriously saying that the camera is good? look man, i used this piece of crap before...the camera images look good on the device, but when uploaded to the computer, they look like ****...you cant take video with the camera, you cant recieve or send mms, pop accounts dont work properly on it, you can only send 1 image in e-mail at a time...there are barely any features on it, ill tell you right now, a clock is not a ****in feature, so why the hell is it on the main menu!? to fill up the ****in huge screen?(might i add, the screen is very lovely)...

nonsensical.
gthing said:
Seriously - I've read some of the most ignorant, bigoted, and asinine comments around here about the iPhone. Everyone seems to despise it. Please, explain to me why?
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Click to collapse
Your post is the most ignorant, bigoted, and asinine comments around here about the iPhone. Do you seriously think that the iPhone and Hermes can be compared side by side?
Since you are raving about Safari... Would you buy a $600 product just coz of Safari? Will you be able to surf fast enough without 3G, HSDPA and WiFi?
This is ridiculous. I suggest you get some fire retardant suit.

uhhm
Im sure your kicking yourself in the but for even thinking of opening this thread hey Mr iPhone?

What can the iphone do that our phone can't?? Plus some of the feature are outdated. as if they iphone should of came out almost a year ago. Now apple is saying they are making a 3g phone. It's a typical company tring to nickel and dime everyone. They start the new phone our with crappy tech thats been out for years. Now they are already talking about a 3g when they should of done that from the start. Our phone can doo soo much more than the iphone. yuo can only play songs, browse the internet and take pictures. You can't load any 3rd party apps or anything. they are also releasing a 4gb and 8gb micro sd card. So you paid 600 for 8gb and we will probably pay maybe 100 for a microsd of 8gb. I think the iphone is overly priced.

Hehehe... funny stuff.
Bottom line - none of us are the target audience. They don't care if we like it - hell, they don't WANT us to like it.
700,000 sold in the first weekend. (Mostly the more expensive model.)
So, let's see....
700,000 x $575 = $402,500,000 in revenue
Average cost to make <$300 so...
700,000 X $275 = $192,500,000 in profit
Estimated buyers MOVING to AT&T from another network = 50% (from analyst, not from AT&T) so...
350,000 new subscribers with 2 year commitment at average of $80 per month = $28,000,000 in NEW revenue per month or $336,000,000 annually.
This is all first weekend... Yeah, they suck.
Beta v. VHS, blah blah blah... the best technology is not always the best product as judged by the marketplace.

Only a foaming at the mouth Apple fanboi could start such a thread.
Bigoted about the iPhone? REALLY? Did you REALLY just post that?
Do you even know what bigoted means? You do know it is just a phone, don't you?
Lets start:
No 3G, No MMS, no third party application access, no memory expansion (how can it be the "best ipod ever" if it only holds 8Gb?, no full bluetooth, no self settable ringtones, no cut/paste, no document editing, no file browser, no saving of images from the browser, no printing of images over bluetooth, no sending of images over wifi, no wireless sync, no exhange push email, no blackberry connectivity option, lies about battery life, cripped device till activated, locked into one operator with a 2 year plan.
Need more?
Yes, it is a sexy phone. It looks nice. And that is where it ends.
And FWIW, I have 4 of the damn things here, all from buddies who purchased one and have asked me to ebay them for them. I played with one for a whole 5 minutes and was bored with it. The damn thing doesn't even have a real RSS reader.
So, it does boobtube. Big deal.
I'm sure they will sell millions of them, but this forum is full of smarter people who demand more from their device.

masta7100 said:
What can the iphone do that our phone can't??
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Given the lines I saw on TV I'd assume it could suck your ****, mow your lawn and make you a nice hot breakfast.
Did you see the Apple staff cheering and clapping when the customers came in?
That isn't a retail store, it's a damn cult.

now this is a phone
CHECKS THIS OUT http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/like-the-...ice-261388.php

My buddy bought an iPhone. He's a fashion sissy. He's had an 8125 and 8525 in the past. He says the iPhone is only superior in its display quality, and that some things really suck on it:
You can't transfer files to/from it using another phone - this makes you have to buy Apple or AT&T's ringtones, and download MP3's from iTunes.
You can't use your songs as ringtones. WTF?
Those were all I heard before I laughed so hard he couldn't talk anymore.

Who else has an IPhone friend they'd love to kill

I love my new HD2 its a very capable device, but why does my Iphone buddy constantly rub in my face all these amazing apps, I find myself constantly looking through google to find similar apps for this but mostly fail. Dont get me wrong I opted for this as opposed to the Iphone I just dont like to see a better phone suffer to this now OLD Iphone maybe its just early days but maybe one day we'll all be forced into the plague that is APPLE!

i know how you feel, my little neice over xmas kept showing me her iphone...
i got annoyed, but i was telling her my phone is better, faster.. lol
she then asked me if i could check the train times i said do it your self, an she said her phone cant view flash.. i was like well thats no good then is it mwahaa lol

hammers4life said:
I love my new HD2 its a very capable device, but why does my Iphone buddy constantly rub in my face all these amazing apps, I find myself constantly looking through google to find similar apps for this but mostly fail. Dont get me wrong I opted for this as opposed to the Iphone I just dont like to see a better phone suffer to this now OLD Iphone maybe its just early days but maybe one day we'll all be forced into the plague that is APPLE!
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What sort of apps are you looking for?
The Apple App Store has many thousands of choices but for every good one there are probably 2 or 3 bad ones.
The long established WinMo app sites like PocketGear and Handango have pretty much anything you could need, but lack the easy download/installation that the MS and Apple App stores offer.

hammers4life said:
I love my new HD2 its a very capable device, but why does my Iphone buddy constantly rub in my face all these amazing apps, I find myself constantly looking through google to find similar apps for this but mostly fail. Dont get me wrong I opted for this as opposed to the Iphone I just dont like to see a better phone suffer to this now OLD Iphone maybe its just early days but maybe one day we'll all be forced into the plague that is APPLE!
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lol, could it be that this time the Apple plague spreads to all of us??? The "lymphatic" Mac sales do seem to be increasing, who hasnt got an ipoc(ipod) and that stinky iphone is everywhere..

beyondthought said:
who hasnt got an ipoc(ipod)
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I havent! Had the original nano and good though it was i sold it. I cant stand itunes!!! What was ever wrong with drag and drop and a proper file explorer?
"Do you want to sync your music library?" NOOO!!! I want to manage it myself. Stop telling me what to do!

just for that reason i bough me an iriver instead of ipod

I have a few friends who have the iphone. I quite like the iphone and what it has to offer.
I bought a HD2 though so you know where my preference is but the iphone is ok. I enjoy all technology.
To answer your question would I kill them (my friends that is). No.
WB

JUST PUT FpseCE 0.10 WITH WIPEOUT 2097 OR FFIX and show him

i'll have to to try fpsece looked a lol one app i was a little jealous of was the Nazi zombie game I was shown today, i'll be checking out handango Ive been using freewarepocketpc.net which is not bad at all.bit complicated but i'll give it a go

Makes me wonder why those apps are not finally put into the MS Store...does not matter to us - but for casual users - they will not want to search for aforementioned websites.
Another issue is the price. I am not willing to pay $20-$30 for PPC apps. The iPhone app store is mostly 99c. And what WM is missing are those LITTLE apps - restaurant finder, train schedule etc. They are so simple, yet not available. I mean on the iphone they are basically nothing more than simple webservices hidden in an app. I mean they query some website, which saves you going to the website and just opens an app. I think it would be great if we had more of that kind. If MS put more effort into filling the app store i think prices would go down, too, as more people would buy the apps, there would be no need to keep a high price to make decent profit.

HD apps
I choose the HD2 over the iphone because HD2 gives you much greater control over your phone and what you can do and install on it. The iphone is a good phone but overall the HD2 is much better. When it comes to applications there are more than enough for the HD2 and not gimmick apps

The HD2 can trash the iPhone until maybe v4 comes out so make the most of it.
Screen size, clarity, stronger gps chip and reception, stronger radio reception. Better sound quality. WM has a very decent app collection, add mobihand to the list.
I still love the iPhone though. Its clamped down but just works.

What is wrong with people (RANT)

hold on to your horses, this is a long one:
Why is it that whenever someone picks up my phone they say, "its just like an iPhone" or "its an iPhone wannabe" or something along those lines. About the only thing the Evo has in common with the iPhone is a touchscreen and camera. One of my friends said it LOOKS like an iPhone. HOW?? It has red accents, a kickstand and something I think the iPhone lacks, character. Apple has a lock on the smartphone market for the average consumer, and it infuriates me. The Evo is, IMO light years ahead of the iPhone, as is Android as an operating system. iOS4 is just now starting to catch up to Android in terms of necessary features, and is still lacking in other departments.
With the announcement of iPhone 4, the ONLY thing that the iPhone does better is the display (I would still prefer the mammouth Evo screen), the battery (will have to wait for reviews to confirm) and camera. Also, I have to admit that the video editing on the fly capabilities are very slick. The thing that has pissed me off the most is the "revolutionary" video chat feature in the new iPhone. BULL! With the Evo, I can video chat ANYWHERE I want on a dependable network, not only when I'm tied down to a WiFi network.
I just wish people weren't so "OOOH iPhone" like. Don't get me wrong, Apple makes phenomenal products. I'm writing this on a Macbook Pro with my 2 iPods charging next to me. But I think people really limit themselves when it comes to the mobile market. The only thing I applaud about the iPhone is what it has done for products today, the Evo most likely would not be here today if not for the iPhone. I used my dads iPhone to download and play some random game, in the middle of the game he got a text message. I was absolutely amazed that there was no way to see what the message was without exiting out of my game on this "magical" device. It could've been an urgent SOS from my brother saying he was being held at gunpoint at a bank, or it could've been my mom asking if we had any milk left. How do people function like that???
/rant
MODS: delete if anything is wrong with this post, I had to get this off my chest though

iPhone 4 is another letdown just like iPhone 3GS. I had the iPhone 3G and didn't upgrade to the 3GS because it was not enough to move me. Anyone who says Evo 4G is a iPhone lookalike is a fanboy.
They put the iPhone 4 display against the plain ol' background on a 3GS. How are you going to compare a background that's in grey to a black plain one. A real comparison would be a JB'n iPhone 3GS background with a background of the iPhone 4.
I'm open to new things and I will admit I jumped the on iPhone due to the hype. I soon became really bored with it and the fact that my phone would constantly go into safe mode. JB's iPhones are so unstable as far as crashing.

Honestly, the iPhone got so much attention because apple can afford to market it like a mofo.

They are going to deceive people with this whole retinal display BS. I will hand it to them that the built in GYRO is cool. I'm pretty sure there will be cool apps but still not interested in it let alone the price of owning one.
I had ridiculous amounts of drop calls that I still have nightmares. I find myself looking on my Evo screen when I hear silence just to make sure it didn't drop it. Thankfully I haven't dropped a call yet.

gqstatus0685 said:
They are going to deceive people with this whole retinal display BS. I will hand it to them that the built in GYRO is cool. I'm pretty sure there will be cool apps but still not interested in it let alone the price of owning one.
I had ridiculous amounts of drop calls that I still have nightmares. I find myself looking on my Evo screen when I hear silence just to make sure it didn't drop it. Thankfully I haven't dropped a call yet.
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You should be safe, I've never dropped a call on Sprint. When my Dad is working in NYC, its not even worth making the call. Even at the Indy 500 a couple weeks ago he couldn't complete a call. Nothing about it makes sense, it baffles me.
The developer community is incredibly strong, but even that argument doesn't hold up too well. Most good apps for iPhone have a Android app, or at least something comparable.
It makes sense none of us get it though, it is an Android board. We've seen the light

The only thing I applaud about the iPhone is what it has done for products today, the Evo most likely would not be here today if not for the iPhone. I used my dads iPhone to download and play some random game, in the middle of the game he got a text message. I was absolutely amazed that there was no way to see what the message was without exiting out of my game on this "magical" device. It could've been an urgent SOS from my brother saying he was being held at gunpoint at a bank, or it could've been my mom asking if we had any milk left. How do people function like that???
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Not that i'm defending the iphone or anything, but you can't really do anything about a text message without killing what your doing on an android phone either. Unless you have sms popup app http://www.appbrain.com/app/net.everythingandroid.smspopup

mrono said:
Not that i'm defending the iphone or anything, but you can't really do anything about a text message without killing what your doing on an android phone either. Unless you have sms popup app http://www.appbrain.com/app/net.everythingandroid.smspopup
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I was more referring to the notification system in Android. In [almost] any app you get a little preview of what the message is and who sent it in the notification bar. It's not perfect, but worlds better than nothing.

Thats the power of Apples advertising. Everyone knows the iPhone. Its so bad that even "tech" people compare every phone to the iPhone.

booyakasha said:
I was more referring to the notification system in Android. In [almost] any app you get a little preview of what the message is and who sent it in the notification bar. It's not perfect, but worlds better than nothing.
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agreed, though then there's apps that are full screen

op, you're wrong.
iphone vs any other phone (best android phone at the moment) is very relevant. Both phones have a lot in common with each other with some key differences.

Well I did notice that the new iPhone seems to have taken some design cues from HTC, I remember when I first saw the leaked images of the new iPhone the first thing I thought was "hey, that looks like the HD2"
-------------------------------------
Sent from my HTC Evo 4G

The evo is a lot like the iPhone and without the iPhone we probably wouldn't have Android at all. We would be here still making windows mobile 6.1 roms.
I'm a big fan of Android, but give credit where credit is due. Apple created this industry, google ,ade it great, and Microsoft still hasn't shipped a significant update to their flagship mobile operating system.

The average person is an idiot.
The iphone can be successful used by 5 year olds.
Their success is entirely because if two thing. What it does it does well. KISS.

We all should thank Motorola (although they butchered the Android name).
They got the Android OS out there. They have marketed the Android heavily and I am glad.
But because of them, however, is why people call the Android system "Droid."

I guess the Apple fans can agree to disagree and they have that right. When it come to little touches I would have to give the edge to apple on it. I would have given another thought had it had a larger screen to really take advantage of that resolution. But in the grand scheme of things and Apples marketing process they wanted to be the worlds thinnest phone and claim longer battery life and this might not have been achievable with a 4 inch display. The Samsung galaxy is close at 9.9 mm. They added some perks to their software update and now claim to have made the best multitasking method for the mobile phones. We will have to see about that.
What I don't like it the many unfair claims towards the Evo for battery drain. I have not seen those numbers yet on my phone. So to all the journalist tech bloggers who reviewed the Evo please re-review them or correct your article because I only read a few that said "in all fairness the Apple iPhone 3gs lasted just as long". The battery has been what has hurt the Evo more than the 4G network in the reviews.

gthing said:
The evo is a lot like the iPhone and without the iPhone we probably wouldn't have Android at all. We would be here still making windows mobile 6.1 roms.
I'm a big fan of Android, but give credit where credit is due. Apple created this industry, google ,ade it great, and Microsoft still hasn't shipped a significant update to their flagship mobile operating system.
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I wouldn't go that far, I am pretty sure we have WinMo and PalmOS to thank for Android, considering Google purchased Android Inc. in 2005, back when the iPhone was just rumor and speculation.

Steve Jobs' comments about Android

Just saw this on 9to5mac...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=hUQVIqjkzD4
And while I don't agree with everything he has to say, I agree with some of his points - it's close to the same argument of windows vs. os x. I love my Evo, Android and Sense, but $58 bucks a month for tons more services with Sprint is a big factor in that love.

He had valid points, lol, yeah android still needs to get all thee phones pushing the same software, but its still ever changing , but when it happens, they will trump iphone
Sent from my netarchy_toast, froyo beast of a machine evo!

I could care less what Steve B-jobs has to say.

So what he's saying is people are sheep. Everybody wants to have the exact same tool and nobody wants something different or the ability to create something different. It's not a good business move to let users have a brain.
Got it.

I'm very happy with my fragmented OS, besides i use roms from DEV's on this site, mainly due to they actually listen to what's going on with the rom's they develop and they figure out a fix for it asap, try seeing how long it takes for a Corp. DEV such as HTC or Google to listen to you and fix your issue. I'd much rather have my custom rom that Just Works versus having the exact same OS as "x" numbers who all have the same OS and still can't change their own battery without mailing their device in or without having to go to a corporate store.
Steve your still a Joke.

DirtyShroomz said:
So what he's saying is people are sheep.
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People sheeps..look at trends. Wait, trends are sheep people.
Everybody wants to have the exact same tool and nobody wants something different or the ability to create something different. It's not a good business move to let users have a brain.
Got it.
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This is what business is about. You want users to be able to repeat your advertisements, or chants. Why do you think they create slogans? Off the top of your head i bet you can say the McDonalds slogan. Now Walmart. What the point is, is that you want the people to be able to follow your products. It is about business.

tomh1979 said:
I'm very happy with my fragmented OS, besides i use roms from DEV's on this site, mainly due to they actually listen to what's going on with the rom's they develop and they figure out a fix for it asap, try seeing how long it takes for a Corp. DEV such as HTC or Google to listen to you and fix your issue. I'd much rather have my custom rom that Just Works versus having the exact same OS as "x" numbers who all have the same OS and still can't change their own battery without mailing their device in or without having to go to a corporate store.
Steve your still a Joke.
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It's funny because I love Macs. I have an iMac, iPad, iPod nano and my wife has an iPod Touch. I've had every iPhone except for the iPhone 4. I love most Apple products. But switched to android when the Nexus One came back and haven't considered switching back to the iPhone since.
Android is a much more robust OS. You can do pretty much anything you want to do. And the average consumer doesn't know or care about fragmentation. They see it as, 'hey, I want a smaller phone (Incredible) or I want a larger screen (EVO, X).' And even then, all those devices have 2.2 on it so there is no fragmentation. Steve Jobs needs to get more informed. He's likely never even used Android and is just spewing irrelevant and incorrect statements.

TwitterDeck.
http://goo.gl/ze3O

Id rather not have all Android Devices pushing the same exact thing (ex: interface). I like how it is, because dev wise, it brings a lot more excitement. Every time I go from cyanogenmod to Sense, it feels as if I just got a new phone, I like having that feeling.

dwd3885 said:
He's likely never even used Android and is just spewing irrelevant and incorrect statements.
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He probably uses one every day.

DirtyShroomz said:
So what he's saying is people are sheep.
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Kind of like the people who buy Android tee shirts pissing on a Apple logo? Brand loyalty (sheep as you call them) exists everywhere and it's not limited to Apple. We/I can point out a bunch of in denial Android/EVO fanboys on just this forum to prove it.
Fragmentation is a problem. It's not about having a wide variety of phones (because that's a good thing); it's about the variety causing troubles for developers, even Google them selves. If I get a new current iPhone, it's pretty much guaranteed that it'll run iOS smoothly and as intended for about two years. It's the same deal with third party apps. On Android though, you can buy a new current phone that 1) doesn't run the latest version of Android and may never will, 2) doesn't run Android smoothly because it can't possibly be optimized for all hardware, 3) third party developers have a hard to make their apps compatible with the vast variety of hardware and versions of Android that are still in use.
You can go on the Android Market right now, click on almost any app, look at it's reviews and see hundreds of comments screaming about the app not working on their phone. The everyday consumer is stupid, they have one bad experience with Android and it'll be less likely that their next phone will be Android. And that's bad for business and the point Steve Jobs was trying to make.

ms79723 said:
Id rather not have all Android Devices pushing the same exact thing (ex: interface). I like how it is, because dev wise, it brings a lot more excitement. Every time I go from cyanogenmod to Sense, it feels as if I just got a new phone, I like having that feeling.
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THIS!
stupid10char

I used to own iphone 3G, and 4. iPhone 4 is indeed a very solid phone with very solid build quality. The downside of owning it was you have to deal with ATT. Apps like orb, and slingmobile got even worst because of retina display and the crap data limitation.
I think both Evo and iPhone 4 have great ups and owns.
I love iphone 4 for it's solid build, and does what's it's supposed to do with no need for tweaking. Down side of it is ATT, and no wifi tether (I didn't jailbreak it yet since there was no need for it for my wife), and data cap on certain apps. Oh and I have not experience the death grip issue, and let's not forget loads of free games that are actually good.
My monthly fee for 450 min, unlimited data, no text(google voice=profit!), no mms = about 70/month after all fees and taxes (EDIT** This is ATER 15% corp discount-I think I used to pay close to 90 w/o the discount).
Upside of Evo is great screen size, Sprint with Asurion insurance, easy to root and enable wifi tethering, great slingmobile quality, and the monthly price. The downside of Evo is crappy build quality (on my second Evo due to glass coming off, and even brand new one's glass can be pushed down)
Monthly fee for SERO prem = I'm assuming it's going to be around 65-70 bucks after insurance/taxes which includes unlimited texts/MMS.

achllles said:
I used to own iphone 3G, and 4. iPhone 4 is indeed a very solid phone with very solid build quality. The downside of owning it was you have to deal with ATT. Apps like orb, and slingmobile got even worst because of retina display and the crap data limitation.
I think both Evo and iPhone 4 have great ups and owns.
I love iphone 4 for it's solid build, and does what's it's supposed to do with no need for tweaking. Down side of it is ATT, and no wifi tether (I didn't jailbreak it yet since there was no need for it for my wife), and data cap on certain apps. Oh and I have not experience the death grip issue, and let's not forget loads of free games that are actually good.
My monthly fee for 450 min, unlimited data, no text(google voice=profit!), no mms = about 70/month after all fees and taxes.
Upside of Evo is great screen size, Sprint with Asurion insurance, easy to root and enable wifi tethering, great slingmobile quality, and the monthly price. The downside of Evo is crappy build quality (on my second Evo due to glass coming off, and even brand new one's glass can be pushed down)
Monthly fee for SERO prem = I'm assuming it's going to be around 65-70 bucks after insurance/taxes which includes unlimited texts/MMS.
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It will be interesting to see what happens when the iPhone finally launches on Verizon. And who knows, with the iPhone on Verizon, we might see it on Sprint sooner or later.

Oh I forgot to mention pretty important experience.
I sold iphone 3G (I'd say 8/10 condition) for 200 bucks on craigslist with in 2 hours of posting it.
Had tough time selling HTC Touch Pro 2 (about same condition) for 150 on craigslist. Finally got rid of it for 180 with bunch of extra stuff (extra bat, charger, bodyglove etc).

DirtyShroomz said:
So what he's saying is people are sheep. Everybody wants to have the exact same tool and nobody wants something different or the ability to create something different. It's not a good business move to let users have a brain.
Got it.
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Problem is, it's correct.
The majority of phone, mp3, toaster buyers are sheep.
Folks like us who read forums such as this one; Those who understand the inner workings of their device and would like to have the ability to change it if desired; Those who enjoy digging into and learning about what they have....
We're the minority. The very, very small minority.
Apple got it right with devices that just work when you turn them on and they do exactly what people expect. Your average 16 year old girl could care less about rooting or jailbreaking. Can she send text messages, listen to music and read Facebook? Bam, the iPhone is good enough. Oh, there was an update to the iPhone software? A few minutes of data transfer and a reboot later and she can get back to what she wants to do with it.
For Android users, it's a question of which phone? Which UI does it come with? Which OS version does it have? You start throwing information like that to a general, everyday, I-just-want-it-to-work user and their eyes glaze over.
I still believe that Android will eventually overtake the iPhone, just by sheer number of devices and carriers, but Google really needs to rein back a bit and let the device manufacturers catch up. We just barely got Froyo rolled out and there's already talk of IceCream.
Fragmentation is a real problem. Not just to users, but developers. The Market is full of comments that say things like "not working on X device".
You don't see that in the iPhone app store.
It's issues like that that will continue to turn sheep users away.

All that proves is Steve Jobs is not above trolling, google is not fragmenting the market. Manufacturers are, google by no means in forced Samsung to use touchwiz, or HTC to use Sense.
I really have never run into a problem where apps wont run my phone due the "fragmentation"

Jobs summed up the point of Android vs Apple in his own words and didn't even realize it.
"We see tremendous value in having Apple rather than our users be the systems integrator."

I agree with jobs. People do want products that "just work" - period. Unless you're a developer, why would you want something that you have to put labor into to actually have it running correctly? However, besides having my products just work I like variety and apple does not provide that - but then again, like someone else said, that's only a few of us.

i partially agree with jobs and just saying that makes me about throw up not because i hate apple products etc. I just really dont like steve jobs.
I think a lot of people give the general public to much credit. honestly even if android had no fragmentation and was better in every aspect then iOS ... almost everyone knows about the iphone. It is already instilled into the average persons minds that the iphone is the best phone. It will take years and years for that to change under optimal conditions.
Most people dont know what fragmentation of an os is or why it can cause problems. Even though the Evo Vs Iphone video was a joke it was pretty accurate, though exaggerated slightly, the average consumer (i am sure some of you will take offense as did many who saw the video but its true). they dont care what else is out what anything else can do they just want an iphone because they have been fed that it is the best phone for a while now.
the iphone is not a bad piece of hard ware. just dont agree with job's practices or "vision" of what the users and developers should be allowed to do. If they allowed widgets and added a bit more customization options to iOS i think they could pull a good amount of the "casual" android users back to there side.

Apple insider rips android a new one, retains its childish fanboy charm.

http://www.appleinsider.com/article...till_half_baked_next_to_iphone_app_store.html
Quite the entertaining read, I applaud the degree of smugness, I could never be so pretentious towards something. It is apple insider though so take it worth a grain of salt.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App

hrmm android market is changing to 15 minute refunds instead of 24 hours huh?
That sucks

skydeaner said:
hrmm android market is changing to 15 minute refunds instead of 24 hours huh?
That sucks
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This is correct.

Currently the Android market is the only app store that has a refund policy. webOS, OVI store, BB store, and app store do not have one. So at least we have one at all, gives us an advantage. Reading that article from Appleinsider does not surprise me, they have been criticized for bad articles for a long time. Apple fanboys seem to be the worst of all the platform fanboys.

While the app store is a much better experience in my opinion, I don't understand why they boast that you can download apps up to 2GB in size on a device that has no expandable memory option?

nukedukem said:
While the app store is a much better experience in my opinion, I don't understand why they boast that you can download apps up to 2GB in size on a device that has no expandable memory option?
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It's really no big deal. You can buy a new one each year with more geebees.

I will never understand why people would want to read something so biased.
Doesn't matter what side it's biased to.

Blitzpwnage said:
http://www.appleinsider.com/article...till_half_baked_next_to_iphone_app_store.html
Quite the entertaining read, I applaud the degree of smugness, I could never be so pretentious towards something. It is apple insider though so take it worth a grain of salt.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
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haters gonna' hate but most of what they say is still mostly true.

nukedukem said:
While the app store is a much better experience in my opinion, I don't understand why they boast that you can download apps up to 2GB in size on a device that has no expandable memory option?
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The EVO has something like 300 MB of internal free space for apps. Froyo's move to SD feature doesn't move the entire app to the SD, just non essential, storage type of app data. So even if you have a 32 GB SD card, you'll still eventually be hosed by the limited internal memory. You could root and modify to completely move the apps to the SD card but it's not perfect and it only benefits the 1% of users who know about rooting.
The iPhone on the other hand has a 32GB version without that limitation.

True, it does contain facts. Unfortunately, they are buried deeply under all of the overly opinionated bs. I mean, they are pretty much saying that its a nice little facelift and all, but the app store will always be better because its made by Apple, and we all know that anything Apple makes must be the best thing ever, assuming you're holding it right of course.
Sent from my Evo 4G using the Badass XDA app of Awesomeness

Yeah most articles contain facts, somewhere, that doesn't make the obvious bias acceptable by any means.

And they neglect to mention the fact that, without root, you are free to download to, and install apps straight from, your computer...thus bypassing many of the complaints in the article.

How anyone can criticize Android for being "fragmented" then ignore that apple has taken the easy way out convincing a nearly blind mass that one device is "the best" and that it's not bizarre for everyone to carry around the exact same phone.. is beyond me.
Who knows, maybe apple isn't the only company trying to take over the world, but at least Google is giving anyone a shot at helping shape the Android experience.

Dear God, I really don't know how these people even walk around. Doesn't it physically hurt to be that much of a pretentious ass?
Mini-rant -
Almost every Android user can admit that the iPhone is pretty cool and has some neat features, while enjoying their own flavor of Android phone. However, I have only met ONE iPhone owner who has ever strayed from the path that Steve Jobs laid down for them and admitted that Android has it's own merits and advantages over iOS.
It's frustrating trying to have an intelligent conversation with an indoctrinated brick wall about the differences and awesomeness of both phones.

Good comedy on a slow morning. More facts were omitted than mentioned. Apple's invisible acceptance criteria for their own apps was totally ignored. Your app needs to benefit the future pov to be accepted. Can't blame him, the gui battle was painful.
Back on topic, it seems that itunes is the future hinge pin for apples' added capability. It offers an umbrella for moving content. So e-books and data and executables are all mac cloud by itunes.
So in as much as I have the utmost respect for apple, small minded blogs are really quite funny and indicate where the blind spots are.

Many years ago I learned to never discuss your competition unless they were a real threat and you were trying to divert attention away from your shortcomings by pointing out theirs.
We should consider it a compliment that a self proclaimed high end @pple resource found the need to dedicate time and bandwidth to defend their product by attacking ours.

And since Tom Tom was mentioned, who needs to buy a nav program for their phones these days? Oh, that's right, iPhone users do! Falling behind there, aren't they? I'll use my free nav and if I need something with on board maps,? I'll buy a whole PNA for around the price of the app. Apple has fallen far behind Android in navigation. I don't know how they can possibly catch up.
See how that works?
The problem with big games on the Android side is that there's been no equivalent to the iPod Touch and for the last 7 months, the dPad . The limited battery life off a modern smartphone still make it a relatively poor high power gaming platform. I bet without the Touch (and to a small part dPad), John Carmack wouldn't be talking favorably about the iPhone either. With the avalanche of tablets about to overtake us, that whole landscape may change. Meanwhile, we always have the Apple marketing created FUD that spews from their fanboi network to enjoy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0q2vjMeEquoand how many rappers make videos about the iphone? Lets see... none.
lets see how about the EVO... tons such as/....
http://www.goodandevo.net/2010/09/hd-music-video-shot-with-htc-evo-4g.html[/URL]

I personally can say from expierence when I was looking for a new phone the two phones I had in mind was the HTC EVO and the Iphone4 . I looked over both providers (Sprint vs AT&T) and compared prices and such . At the start of it all both phones were neck and neck for me . Then the Apple antenna issue popped up , I stepped back and watched how Apple would handle the situation , still keeping the HTC EVO in the back of my mind . After watching Steve Jobs talk about how users were holding thier phones wrong and how it was actually AT&T's fault due to their network it became a total finger pointing fight . Mean while the HTC EVO was still sitting there in my mind with very few issues besides a issue with battery life . After doing more research I found the Iphone also suffered from battery life issues itself . Months prior to its release the iphone was said to be having a removable battery , that feature never came to be when it was released . Long story short , Apple changing the removable battery idea and the Steve Jobs blow out It pretty much pointed me straight to Sprint and the HTC EVO . Ever since then I have never been happier , but I still see videos of apple owners who litterally look like zombies when talking about apple products . Hell the woman who activated my phone at Bestbuy had a iphone 3G and her words were "The iphone4 is awesome I must have it , Im going to get one" . Granted the statement alone wasnt funny but the fact he eyes litterally buldged out and glazed over was the killer part .To add further insult to injury , there was a small crowd of Iphone4 owners there was well when I got mine . I over heard comments like this "Ohh you wont drop calls if you hold it like this." "No you are holding it wrong hold it like this" . I was littlerally besides myself laughing my ass off listening to the whole conversation . Apple owners might consider us Android owners lower than them , but I can say this much Id much rather be with the lower crowd then in that crowd ROFL

uniquenameevo said:
It's really no big deal. You can buy a new one each year with more geebees.
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Just like Apple intended!