Database Users

We deserve a better hardware, don't we?

I dropped my Universal yesterday. My fault. True.
And now it thinks there is always the headset in, so it's stuck and I can't answer the calls using the phone microphone, just bluetooth. And I can't hear the sms alert.
Again, my fault.
BUT it was already faulty, I had to put something in-out the heasdset hole because the sensor didn't work very well (it's a well known problem).
I should change the mother board, now, and I don't want to spend so much money. :evil:
Also because it happened to me to put the Universal in my pocket and... surprise, the screen was broken (substitution: round 150 Euro). Then I bought also a leather case to avoid this problem in the future.
I used to have a Sony UX50 (unfortunately NOT the Vaio UX50, same name, but it was Palm, not Windows XP) and I kept it with no prob in my pockets, and it fell down several times, surviving!
I'm not saying it should be unbreakable, of course, but my opinion is that a mobile device should be more robust. :?

Mate its all a matter of luck really. Im sure theres users on here like me who keep it in there pocket, who have knocked it around, and who have had some spills with it and theres still works fine. Well mine does. You people though who put them in your pocket and break the scrrens, id love to know what you are doing to have such an impact come down on your leg you break the screen.
Either that or your extraordinarily uncoordinated and walking into poles all day....in any case yours should be more durable, but you got unlucky unfortuntely.

This reminded of two anecdotes.
1) You're right, the sensor doens't work well. On my way to work the headphone jack slipped a quarter of a millimetre while I was listening to hardcore gangsta rap. You should have seen my face rushing for my pocket, desperatly trying to figure out what was happening. Even more shocked where the train passenger, having to listen to the Universal full blast :-D
2) I wouldn't call the the Universal flimsy, but it definitely doens't seem like the kind of device that could handle shocks well. I had 6 nokias and 3 motorolas before, and all 3 motos died (I'm rough with my devices ). The nokias where dropped off buildings and slammed against walls (don't ask) yet kept on soldiering. I would dare to subject the universal to the same treatment.
:lol:

:lol:
I decided to send my babe to Germany, where it came from, trying to resolve the problem.
In the meanwhile, I ordered the Nokia E61, by far an interesting smartphone (and, as you mentioned, Nokia phones are robust!).
My first Nokia, really amazing: wifi, bluetooth, 3g, latest symbian operating system.
If the Universal returns home, maybe I'll keep the Nokia as really "mobile" solution (that is in my pocket) and the Universal for business (taking notes, extensively browsing the web...)

Nokias, robust?
You obviously never had an 8210 lol
My wife and I really liked these phones when they came out so we had one each. We got through on average one a month. As I may have mentioned elsewhere in this forum, my wife doesn't do technology very well, walking into poles, dropping phones in toilets, coffee, beer, and other assorted disasters. I'm very careful with mine yet these 8210s seemed to be made of rice paper.
I'm now on my second HTC unit and the construction seems adequate, but not great. The hinge will be the first thing to go on my Uni, but that won't be because I'm rough with it, it just seems to be a weak point.

JasJar Universal screen broke for no apparent reason.
My JasJar was on a hotel bed. On moment I was playing with it. Put it down. Picked it up in a few minutes and the screen was broken and leaking liquid internally.
In this same hotel My little girl previously pissed on a imate PDA2.
Bad luck places aside. I had nokias 9X00 series the calm shell pda type. Those are much stronger than most HTC stuff.
I mean I paid lots and I mean lots of money for the JasJar, really as far as I know it is THE MOST EXPENSIVE MOBILE WITHOUT REAL DIAMONDS IN IT. And we get a flimsy case. The cover of the LCD is very weak. Very.
Take care of your HTCs.
Really HTC the next JasJar should be stronger and have more ram. Hello, we are buying the most geeky phone, a little more ram will really help. Wimps may be able to live on less ram but someone who buys jasjar would not.

PReDiToR said:
Nokias, robust?
You obviously never had an 8210 lol
My wife and I really liked these phones when they came out so we had one each. We got through on average one a month. As I may have mentioned elsewhere in this forum, my wife doesn't do technology very well, walking into poles, dropping phones in toilets, coffee, beer, and other assorted disasters. I'm very careful with mine yet these 8210s seemed to be made of rice paper.
I'm now on my second HTC unit and the construction seems adequate, but not great. The hinge will be the first thing to go on my Uni, but that won't be because I'm rough with it, it just seems to be a weak point.
Click to expand...
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Just shows how different people can have different experiences. I still have an 8210 and it's by far the toughest phone I've ever had. (admittedly I've got it in a G-shock type cover I found online, but that's been soaked, thrown about, crashed on a motorcycle etc etc and still works fine. (Admittedly it's the 2nd one I had - the screen became faulty on the first).

the good ol 8210s I had mine for so long, actually I had mine for about 1.5 years but then my mum had it for over 3 years. So 4.5yrs out of the one phone and during that time it had been pounded and dropped a hundred dozen times.
Such tiny phones, simple phones. The old days hey.
memories....

Most solid ever would have been my nokia 3310. That thing was shaped like a brick but was also solid as a brick. I dropped it hundreds of time, one time it even went completly under a car! I also threw it away as hard as I could against a wall (I get mad sometimes :evil: ). Well, short of a few cracks in the cover, that phone still works today.
It doesn't resist water though, a friend of mine swam with his ( :lol: ) and the poor thing worked for like a few hours then stopped.

More Quality HTC engineering

High Tech Crap have once again surpassed themselves with the Wizard.
My stylus is held in by sticky tape and the paint flakes off, however even worse my good friend Alex's died a few days ago of its own accord. He thought maybe it had just run out of batteries so he plugged the charger in and within seconds it got so hot that it burned him and melted all the internal stickers off. god knows what would have happened if he'd left it.
Just a warning. Sounds like a lawsuit to me

Your issues seem atypical--I've been reading through this forum for a few months now and haven't come across a single one where somebody said their Wizard blew up/melted/what have you. Sorry you're having problems, but isn't that what a warranty is for?

Doubt the paint and stylus are covered by warranty, certainly not the paint as they know its just an issue full stop and would be replacing each and every unit constantly.

I disagree with your assessment. See here.

Well when your house burns down, don't say I didn't warn you
Doubt the paint and stylus are covered by warranty, certainly not the paint as they know its just an issue full stop and would be replacing each and every unit constantly.
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They should do. You'd think for the price these things would be built to the highest standard. They MUST know these things are issues when they start producing these. Either that or they did NO product testing. I don't understand how it passes EC quality control.
If you bought a car and the paint fell off you'd expect it sorting out. I bet the paint won't flake off the Sony Ericssion p990.
If each of us here wrote to HTC/Trading Standards/our service providers we could get a brand new handset each.
In fact, if I start a petition on here that just requires name and email address, and sent it to HTC, threatening to send it to trading standards, how many people do you think would sign it if it meant a free device for each of us?
Because TBH, I'm pretty sick of spending hundereds of pounds on HTC junk only to have it fall apart after 2 months EVERY TIME, not to mention the software issues. In fact, I'm pretty sure they're required by law to replace things like that.

mike freegan said:
Because TBH, I'm pretty sick of spending hundereds of pounds on HTC junk only to have it fall apart after 2 months EVERY TIME, not to mention the software issues. In fact, I'm pretty sure they're required by law to replace things like that.
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I am really sorry to hear about your issues. However, you must understand that the K-JAM is nowhere near the Casio E-200 as far as quality is concerned. I went through 3 E-200's and the product line was so bad, Casio eventually pulled it off the market and not soon later exited the PPC market altogether.
I am on many forums and have heard relatively few complaint other than the standard stylus-loose issue and maybe just a complaint here and there that the paint on the blue "E" for internet explorer came off. Considering that the Wizard comes from Imate, T-Mobile, 02, DoPod, etc it seems relatively few people have the same issues as you mention. Personally, I beleive either you treat your device harshly or you got one from a bad production batch. I have had my K-JAM for 8 months already, and aside from the stylus being loose nothing else is wrong with the device.
If you are that dissapointed, get on the phone with support and demand that you want a replacement unit. Tell them exactly what you complained about here that you didn't expect such an expensive device to peel and chip. See how that goes.

Please read properly.
My device is fine. I was talking about my friend's device. I assure you, I take excellent care of mine.
My point was that there should be safety mechanisms to prevent things getting so hot to the point that they melt and pose a fire risk, no matter how badly you treat it (which he didn't).
The only faults on mine are the loose stylus and the flaky paint -both known problems. My point is that for £400 you shouldn't have to put up with either. I mean, if you buy a cheap, low quality phone for £20 I bet the paint wouldn't flake off, so why do HTC who charge so extortionally for what should be quality products be forgiven for cutting corners and selling shoddy hardware?
Also, it's only because of the gurus on here like Vijay and Buzz that our devices work at all. We shouldn't have to rely on these guys working volentarily to try and patch up the bugs left in by HTC/Microsoft. It's not even like the odd bug; EVERY SINGLE ROM is full of serious errors that HTC know are there and affect even basic functions. I am grateful to buzz/vijay, but it sholdn't be their job to do it. They don't get paid to do it. For the price we pay, you should expect maybe the odd bug, but not some of the ridiculous and obvious errors that HTC sell these devices knowing about (talking more about the BlueAngel/Universal really, but alot of people report Wizard bugs too)
Also, saying a device by another manufacturer is worse does not justify making a sub-quality product. If the paint flaked off you car, I wouldn't try and defend it by saying that the wheels fell off mine so you should be happy. That's ridiculous. you paid alot of money for a product which you should expect a certain quality from.
I think if just a few hundered of us petitioned, threatening to involve trading standards, it might just give HTC a kick up the arse, show them that we won't just put up with this stuff because they can't be bothered fixing it and get them to put a little more effort into ensuring the hardware and software quality of their next device.
Viva la revolution

Sleuth255 said:
I disagree with your assessment. See here.
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Click to collapse
That maybe so but it doesnt change the fact that the paint flakes off.
What would the conversation to support go like ?
Consumer " Hi I bought a device from you and the paint is flaking off. "
Support " Yes but the device will survive should it be dropped in water "
Consumer " Really ? "
Support " Yes. "
Consumer " I didnt realise. Sorry to have troubled you. "
:roll:

right.... I guess I deserved that....
I'm actually wondering if HTC actually makes all the various cases for these devices. Or, do they sell the basic insides as an OEM provider and the end seller provides the rest. This wouldn't apply to Qtek devices of course as these probably would be completely produced by HTC.
Case in point: I'm not aware of paint peeling or loose stylus issues on the 8125. Perhaps somebody can correct me here.

now this is funny!!! I have not had any problems with the phone yet. But i would sign if anyone started it. I will stand by my boys in arms hehehehe
but i do think there is a diffrence between a car and phone, that the phone takes alot from being in a pocket or something ( how about we all put car paint on our phones) and a car is made to withstand rain and so fore. But i do think that it should be abit better for the price.

mike freegan said:
Please read properly.
Also, saying a device by another manufacturer is worse does not justify making a sub-quality product. If the paint flaked off you car, I wouldn't try and defend it by saying that the wheels fell off mine so you should be happy. That's ridiculous. you paid alot of money for a product which you should expect a certain quality from.
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I seem to remember the old Citroen BX's cost a lot of money in their day and the paint flaked off... people still bought them though.... and they still worked... not to mention the fact the wheel could fall off and it would work too :lol:
seriously though. i agree that the paint flaking is a bit of an issue, and the stylus not seating properly is poor design. I do think however that fighting via a petition for them to replace our devices with equally as faulty devices is a waste of time. Example for this is my friend and I both have owend smart roadsters. they both slightly leaked as with nearly all cabriolets, but he moaned and demanded they fix it (i didnt!)... it went in for the supposed leak fix and came back worse than before and he had to reject the car (upsetting himself at the same time because he really loved that car for what it was). I just dont quite see why i would want to cut my own nose to spite my face right now

Cry me a river, this is what is known as the bleeding edge.
Look what you are holding in your hand, its a miniature PC with bluetooth, wifi, a phone with gprs/edge, a PDA with a full keyboard. This is an incredibly elegant device. Yes my stylus falls out but when I took it apart I was totaly impressed by the elegance of the design, flawed maybe but not the china crap I've seen. Also understand how the supply chain works. HTC contracts out with flex or foxcon or whomever which actually manufacture these, most all electronic mfg do this. So as a mfg you are dependent on the quality of your sub, yes you can and do police them but with a mobile workforce you are going to get quality issues. It's just the way the world works and as was said, that's what the warrenty is for unless of course you flashed a new rom or opened the case and voided it, then tough luck.

Well, I would agree with thompsd. I mean, HP and others have phones that work much stable, better and the paint doesn't flake off. So, why don't you just go ahead and buy yourself an HP Phone? I'm not sure about your reason, but I just can't affort an HP, and I don't really like the bulky HP (though their recent device looks promising, not sure about the price).
Hey, consider the HTC company is like.. how old? Oh man, give them some slack. I think they are pretty good in putting in so many things into such a small unit and if they aren't that good with their paint job, so be it. However, having said that, I'm still expecting them to be getting much better soon, inside out. Go ahead with your petition thing and good luck.
BTW, how does the 'easily scratched' iPod case ended?
Anyway, as for the fire thing, it is not an HTC issue only. The invincible Apple had laptop camp fire here and the mighty Dell had their contribution on the conference.
My advise is, don't leave any electronic stuff left unattented.

@ JNGold
First of all sorry for deviating from the true subject of this thread.
I am glad that you are happy with the build quality of your wizard. Since you have been using your device for 8 months I would like to know if the keyboard sliding mechanism is showing any signs of wear / looseness. I am interested in this because previously I owned the i-mate pda2k (HTC magician) and over few months of use the keyboard became quite loose to the point that it would slide open by its own weight if held vertically.
I am now considering going for the HTC TyTn once this is out. My only apprehension is the quality of the slide mechanism and your comments would be really helpful.
Thanks and Regards

Why do you repeat buy HTC if you're having such issues with their devices?

My point is, if HTC can do such an excellent job (and it is excellent) of getting so much technology into such a small space, and charge so much for their devices, why not just spend the extra 5 minutes to make sure the paint doesn't flake off? I don't understand why they think they can sell something which is faulty.
It's a device designed to be mobile and carried in a pocket (hence pocket pc/windows mobile). For £400 you are entitled to expect that the paint will be to a reasonable quality like EVERY other phone on the market.
I have just noticed that every HTC device has a whole host of small flaws that could be avoided so easily and at no extra cost, if they just thought about what they were doing. My friend has programmed for Windows Mobile and he tells me that they know its full of bugs and clashing scripts because of a lack of cummunication between departments, but they just release the software anyway, where an extra couple of days resolving the clashes between each application would solve the problem.
I mean, someone's worked really hard making all the hardware fit in the case which is the difficult part, but then not bothered designing or testing the stylus issue, something which is obviously gunna suffer from wear and tear.
I don't want a replacement device, but I just think that if we scare HTC/our service providers a bit with threats of trading standards, and show that alot of us are interested then it might make them spend the extra couple of weeks testing their next device and making sure it works well before they sell it.
I mean, the Sony Ericsson P990 does everything the wizard does, and more, but I bet they made sure the paint doesn't fall off and the stylus stays in. high functionality does not have to mean low quality.

Err... Can't speak for the p990 but the p800 I had suffered from peeling paint and stylus issues as well (cracking styluses, styluses that fell off) as well as a notorious keyboard design that actually worked until you put it in your pocket and broke the two tiny tabs that held the top of the keyboard away from the screen. So Sony-Ericsson isn't the acme of product perfection you hold them to be.
The only peeling paint I have had with my wizard has been the qtek label on the bottom. Which to me was no great loss.
To me the biggest issue with this phone has always been the software. Which honestly has improved dramatically since the 1.x firmware days.
I knew going in that the wizard had the potential to be a disaster of a phone hey lets see, an innovative package and feature set and new software from Microsoft is quite the triple threat for product mayhem but 9 months into it I have little to complain about.
That may all change tomorrow when the phone decides to self-whimilate or some such thing. but for now I'm content.

demagnetizing concerns

hi all,
i am quite seriously considering the 7501 here in the usa, as an upgrade from the hermes, vs the kaiser, or eventual omni.
one large concern is the poss. of the magnet demagnetizing my credit cards.
as i almost had my honeymoon ruined 12 yrs ago in italy when i bought a magnet money clip and put it in the same pocket/area as my wallet, later after my atm card would not work i realized the blunder and have not used it since.
i searched the forums and came up empty.
the question is has any of you advantage users actually had their cards or other magnetic based(hd's) devices demagnetized, and if so can you tell me how exactly it happened in terms of proximity to the cards, length of time in proximity, OR if you have not had any problems and have had the advantage next to your cards/wallet, etc.
i like to use a leather fanny pack when walking/hiking for long distances and keep my wallet, cell phone, dig camera in it together but in diff compartments sep by fabric only.
i would hate to have to think of always keeping my wallet and main device exactly 6.25346???? inches apart to prevent disaster.
secondly maybe you engineers could tell me how to protect the cards in the wallet with a shield of lead( small enough to put in a wallet, of course or other material), or something that would block the magnetization effects.
thanks in advance!!
djsell

has not happen to me.... YET

There are a couple of posts in the Athena forum from members saying that their laptop hard drives have been damaged. Not seen any mention of credit cards though.
I am careful not to get the keyboard of the Athena anywhere near my laptop or wallet, I don't want to be the first to test it...

Haven't you seen Mythbusters?
It isn't possible for any type of commercially-available magnet to wipe a credit card. They tested cards with huge electromagnets and the cards were just fine. It would take at least 1000 gauss to erase a credit card. Most likely the "demagnetized" cards people keep swearing they have are damaged by other means, like scratches on the magnetic stripe. And it wouldn't necessarily have to entirely destroy the data on the stripe; just one well-placed scratch would be enough to destroy just enough data that the reader wouldn't be able to make sense of what it's seeing.

jsp91470 said:
It isn't possible for any type of commercially-available magnet to wipe a credit card. They tested cards with huge electromagnets and the cards were just fine. It would take at least 1000 gauss to erase a credit card. Most likely the "demagnetized" cards people keep swearing they have are damaged by other means, like scratches on the magnetic stripe. And it wouldn't necessarily have to entirely destroy the data on the stripe; just one well-placed scratch would be enough to destroy just enough data that the reader wouldn't be able to make sense of what it's seeing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That said, I believe T-Mobile recommend you keep the Ameo 5cm away from credit cards.

my athena has killed 2 hard drives (both laptop) so it does that, not sure about credit cards...

i just googled "credit cards and magnets" and found serious problems people have said they've encountered with the magnet in the sidekick-3 and losing all data on credit cards, dr. license , and someone tested a card with a 1 second exposure and the card was unrecognizable!!
also the "basics" of credit card magnetic stripes, and they are actual tiny magnets!
not looking good, ...and as this thread plays out some harddrives lost...makes me wonder how the advantages own hd is not affected.
i'll have to read up on "mythbusters", and the myth of these lost hd's and card data...i would love to believe it is a myth!!
the question for me is can i keep the advantage away from my cards and hd's 100% of the time!!!...knowing me, not a chance!!
djsell

The answer is you just need to be a bit careful - don't put the unit or the keyboard on your laptop or wallet. Also, if you are wearing a jacket with your unit in one breast pocket and your wallet in the other and put the jacket down on a flat surface, take one or other out before you do!!!!!

the answer is yes to credit cards in my x7500 manual it says to keep it away from credit cards and mag stripes as it can possibly harm them.
its just a warning not a guarantee just thought id throw this in there

Hi,
I can only speak of my own experience: on two separate occasions my Athena rendered my daily parking ticket (which is made of paper with a thin magnetic stripe) completely unreadable by the automatic cashier mashine.
Once the ticket was put in my bag right on top of the Athena(bad idea...). The other time I had the ticket in my shirt pocket and the Athena in my inside coat pocket, so the two of them were only separated by a few layers of fabric...
Since these two incidents I try to keep my Athena separated from anything electronic and/or magnetic. And if someone came up with a way to remove the magnet I'd be happy to test (I don't use the keyboard anymore).
Regards,
Silviu

The whole magnet keyboard thing is a bad design IMHO. Carrying around magnets with you 24/7 can't be a good thing. I do know people use magnets for therapy.
But for everything else it can just cause a problem. They should have just done away with the keyboard all together or done it the smart way like the Universal. Swivel style.
Sure the Omni might have this design but is the Omni going to have a 5" screen. I bet not.

I remember seeing something about removing the magnet(s) here on XDA-devs. If HTC puts them in, I'm sure some intrepid XDAer has/will take them out...

I've not managed to kill any of my cards (as yet), but now the UK's moved over to Chip and Pin, the stripe barely gets used. No problems with the storecards in their either mind. I quite often carry my wallet atop the closed Ameo. I have managed to knacker one lappy hdd though with my Ameo.
One thing I have noticed is the magnet seems to be quite focused - its grab doesnt seem to emit too far from the bottom of the device. However, the keyboard seems to have far greater radiance than the gadget (from holding them both upto a CRT).

thanks for all the feedback....still undecided on the advantage, i agree that if htc simply used the universals swivel design this would have alleviated a lot of poss problems....no magnet problems, adjustable viewing angles in laptop mode, no losing the kb or keeping track of it, etc., ....well i'll wait a few wks for the poss omni...kaiser still will be with an unprotected screen.
i loved the universal but for me it was quite slow, and the camera was essentially unuseable for my purposes, and important to have in the device.
ces la vie!!
djsell

[email protected] said:
thanks for all the feedback....still undecided on the advantage, i agree that if htc simply used the universals swivel design this would have alleviated a lot of poss problems....no magnet problems, adjustable viewing angles in laptop mode, no losing the kb or keeping track of it, etc., ....well i'll wait a few wks for the poss omni...kaiser still will be with an unprotected screen.
i loved the universal but for me it was quite slow, and the camera was essentially unuseable for my purposes, and important to have in the device.
ces la vie!!
djsell
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Whoah there!!! Every PDA I've ever had had its drawbacks - each of which you had to find a workaround for. It is true that the magnets require a bit of careful thought but they are the issue you come up with a workaround for. There are other minor issues but generally the Ameo is fantastic - and I defy you to go back to a smaller screen once you've tried it!!!!

I have been able to kill two hotel keycards with my X7500. Another one to be wary about, since you will need to walk back aaaaalllllll the way down to reception...

silviu.h said:
Hi,
I can only speak of my own experience: on two separate occasions my Athena rendered my daily parking ticket (which is made of paper with a thin magnetic stripe) completely unreadable by the automatic cashier mashine.
Regards,
Silviu
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Me to... thankfully it had my entry time printed on the ticket and so I wasn't charged a full day (it was airport parking too - very pricey).
Most of my credit/debit cards are probably already wiped by my Ameo, not sure, but I've not had a card swip done in ages since chip and pin so I suppose I'll only find out when I go to the one place that still relies on mag-stripe technology.

i agree apd,
my real objective...so i tell myself....is to find that near perfect all in one device to use for the longest poss period of time w/o having to continually switch to another phone and reload all my software and endure the new horrors of active sync, i am a physician that basically has the patience, with tech devices, that is, of a newborn baby looking for a nipple!!...I HAVE NOT MUCH, and i want everything to work fairly well and w/o side effects and time consumption.
i loved my universal ( you're right the vga screen!! ) and stuck with it for about a year, which as you know in gadget years, thats about 80 years!, but i really need a camera for my work, and its is insuff, so i had to carry a 2nd device, a dig camera which defeats the purpose.......anyway i just want to avoid the SERIOUS side effects which could be credit card dysfunction, harddrive loss, etc and certainly could live with the viewing angle, and size , since its evidently not that much larger than the universal.
we'll see...the omni proposes a 4" vga screen, 3mp camera,swivel design (minus magnets), and all the other stuff, minus the 8 gb hd, but with micro sd now coming out with 8 gd memory, thats ok.
maybe in its case i could slip in a material that would block the magnetization??!!
btw, here in the usa everything on cards seems to be magnetized still!!
djsell

Doodle said:
I have been able to kill two hotel keycards with my X7500. Another one to be wary about, since you will need to walk back aaaaalllllll the way down to reception...
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Click to collapse
me two and the first time i only had my pants and socks on went next door to borrow somthing of my work colleage, at least the receptionist found it amusing

Well I was watching Discovery Channel about a yr back. N I remember watching Myth Busters. They did a test about demagnetizing a credit card and the results were if u wanna demagnetize ur credit card...... the amount of energy required would actually destroy the card into pieces first..... I Doubt Athena has the power to do that... =D.....
Cheers

Be careful with your HD2. The screen apparently shatters easily

I have a very low to the ground car with low-profile tires.
I had my phone in my lap, and forgot it was there, got up and it just barely flopped to the ground. Flipped it over, the entire screen was shattered. It dropped maybe 12 inches from my pants to the ground.
Just a quick heads up for those who wear their phone in their crotch while they drive.
It will break from one time forgetting to take it out of your lap and into your pocket before you get out of the car. Take it from me.... FML..

Damn, that sucks bro! =[
I must be a lucky guy because I left my phone on my lap while I was driving my dad's truck (2002 Toyota Tundra), and then I forgot it was on my lap when I exited the vehicle. It landed face down, and not a scratch.
Another instance is when I was working out at the gym....again, I left my phone on my lap, and after completing my sets, I quickly stood up, and my phone hit the metal part of the equipment, and the battery door came off, and the battery flew out. Again, no scratch.

WOW!!!
I didn't know a glass screen could shatter!!!
Good info to know.
http://www.otterbox.com/htc-cases/h...cases-u.s./htc-hd2-defender-series-case-u.s./

had the same problem, dropped from a low height, screen cracked, my problem is I have a Telsta model, you have to replace screen and display (soldered together can't buy individualy) sad

eddyhsline said:
had the same problem, dropped from a low height, screen cracked, my problem is I have a Telsta model, you have to replace screen and display (soldered together can't buy individualy) sad
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most people break the screen when trying to replace it anyways. Probably better to replace both parts together.

It's all relative.
I've dropped my HD2 several times from various heights and so far the phone doesn't have a scratch on it. Once it skid down a couple of concrete stairs but miraculously survived without any damage. I guess I'm just lucky?

i use otterbox defender. in a moving car about 40km/h with window open and holding it outside when suddenly i lost grip and it felt on the asphalt.
the first thing in my mind is about the screen.
no scratch.

Was the phone on vibrate?
Just joking. Thanks for the heads up

Hey thanks guys on that otterbox thing. I might have to try that if they do have such an easy propensity to breaking.
Crazy how mine shattered so easy, and some not so easy.

If its any consolation this happened to a friend of mine - i guess its just bad luck.

people who mess with their phone whilst in charge of a vehicle deserve to crash and suffer terrible injury and / or a slow painful death, so im glad you broke your phone, just a shame you didnt cripple yourself into teh bargain. Whether making a call, or just holding it, you aren't in control of the vehicle, and deserve bad things to happen to you.
Just the opinion of someone who lost a relative to a driver who was 'just checking the time on my phone, officer'.

Glass screen can shatter? WHO WOULDA THUNK IT!?
In other related news, fish do live in the ocean and the sky is definitely blue.
I went through many of those drops with my Diamond. I put it on my crotch while talking on the headset, then got out of the car, unbeknownst that the phone is still on my crotch and BAMM! ate cement... Good thing the Diamond's screen was resistive heh. I take care of the HD2 like a baby now and always have it either on the passenger seat when i drive or put it in the phone holder.

badai said:
i use otterbox defender. in a moving car about 40km/h with window open and holding it outside when suddenly i lost grip and it felt on the asphalt.
the first thing in my mind is about the screen.
no scratch.
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WHY???
+1 on what sam said too.......

samsamuel said:
people who mess with their phone whilst in charge of a vehicle deserve to crash and suffer terrible injury and / or a slow painful death, so im glad you broke your phone, just a shame you didnt cripple yourself into teh bargain. Whether making a call, or just holding it, you aren't in control of the vehicle, and deserve bad things to happen to you.
Just the opinion of someone who lost a relative to a driver who was 'just checking the time on my phone, officer'.
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For your opinionated and assumptive information, I wasn't driving and talking on the phone, nor was I texting either. I pulled a pack of GUM out of my pocket and the phone had to come out in the process, so before you go wishing I DIAF, maybe you shouldn't assume things that never happen when I drive. Sorry you lost a relative, but I'm not retarded.

yep, hand off the wheel rooting in a pocket, that would count as driving without due care and attention too, except of course it's unenforecable, cos drivers have a whole set of laws all to themselves. I swing an iron bar around and accidentally hit someone and kill them, its manslaughter, a driver picks his nose and slams a half ton of metal into someone and its an unfortunate accident.
Im sorry i unloaded on you specifically, it was aimed at all car drivers (especially the pillock with his phone in hand hanging out of the car, christ, moron).
Even the (comparitively speaking) safe drivers look around, eat food (and gum!), pick their nose, fiddle with the radio, , none of these activities are safe.
How long to take your phone out of your pocket, take the gum out, unwrap it, put it in your mouth? 30 seconds? 30 seconds where you aren't in control of your car, it takes what, 3 seconds to mount the pavement, your car judders, your beloved phone leaps out of your lap, you automatically jump to grab it (studies have already shown people automatically try to grab their phones to protect them during incidents), bang, small child being scraped along the concrete leaving skin and blood in a trail behind your car. What happens? A year or so jail at the most, probably suspended.
So, again, im sorry i leaped down your throat, but for me, ANY story where something bad happens to a driver is good news.

samsamuel said:
yep, hand off the wheel rooting in a pocket, that would count as driving without due care and attention too, except of course it's unenforecable, cos drivers have a whole set of laws all to themselves. I swing an iron bar around and accidentally hit someone and kill them, its manslaughter, a driver picks his nose and slams a half ton of metal into someone and its an unfortunate accident.
Im sorry i unloaded on you specifically, it was aimed at all car drivers (especially the pillock with his phone in hand hanging out of the car, christ, moron).
Even the (comparitively speaking) safe drivers look around, eat food (and gum!), pick their nose, fiddle with the radio, , none of these activities are safe.
How long to take your phone out of your pocket, take the gum out, unwrap it, put it in your mouth? 30 seconds? 30 seconds where you aren't in control of your car, it takes what, 3 seconds to mount the pavement, your car judders, your beloved phone leaps out of your lap, you automatically jump to grab it (studies have already shown people automatically try to grab their phones to protect them during incidents), bang, small child being scraped along the concrete leaving skin and blood in a trail behind your car. What happens? A year or so jail at the most, probably suspended.
So, again, im sorry i leaped down your throat, but for me, ANY story where something bad happens to a driver is good news.
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I've been an insured driver for a decade. Never had an accident. NOR even a speeding ticket to speak of. Without taking my eyes off the road, its easy to drive with one hand and take a piece of gum out of your pocket. I don't LOOK off of the ROAD when doing this. Unfortunately some drivers do, and while one deems "safe driving" one thing, obviously another can deem it unsafe by their standards. Simply put, there are a LOT of bad drivers out there. You see them every day talking on their cell phone and using MAYBE 20% of their attention on actually PAYING ATTENTION to driving, so I get your point... but I'm sorry, taking ONE hand off the wheel while still watching the road is not unsafe, and if you cannot change the station in your car, or do simple things without getting into an accident then your license should be revoked. People take it to the extreme. I used to live in Phoenix and in the morning rush hour traffic you'd see women putting on their makeup and curling their FRIGGIN hair in the car. It boggles your mind how someone could deem THAT safe driving, because you should be BANNED from driving if you were to get pulled over or KILL someone for some stupid time-saving choice. If you've gotta do that in the car you might wanna hire someone to drive you to work every day.
So like I said I see what you're getting at and obviously, its a sensitive subject for you but I mean, 10 and 2 not 100% of the time in the car isn't gonna be unsafe if you're still prioritizing your attention & what you can, and cannot take a hand off the wheel for. ONE huge stupid is definitely TEXT/CALLING people. And the aforementioned.
So people, while this isn't a debate thread about texting and driving, moral of the story is.. don't be stupid and use your phone while you drive. I'm just the unlucky bastid that happened to have his in his lap when it shattered to the cement.

samsamuel said:
yep, hand off the wheel rooting in a pocket, that would count as driving without due care and attention too, except of course it's unenforecable, cos drivers have a whole set of laws all to themselves. I swing an iron bar around and accidentally hit someone and kill them, its manslaughter, a driver picks his nose and slams a half ton of metal into someone and its an unfortunate accident.
Im sorry i unloaded on you specifically, it was aimed at all car drivers (especially the pillock with his phone in hand hanging out of the car, christ, moron).
Even the (comparitively speaking) safe drivers look around, eat food (and gum!), pick their nose, fiddle with the radio, , none of these activities are safe.
How long to take your phone out of your pocket, take the gum out, unwrap it, put it in your mouth? 30 seconds? 30 seconds where you aren't in control of your car, it takes what, 3 seconds to mount the pavement, your car judders, your beloved phone leaps out of your lap, you automatically jump to grab it (studies have already shown people automatically try to grab their phones to protect them during incidents), bang, small child being scraped along the concrete leaving skin and blood in a trail behind your car. What happens? A year or so jail at the most, probably suspended.
So, again, im sorry i leaped down your throat, but for me, ANY story where something bad happens to a driver is good news.
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Texas has a new "distracted driver" laws in effect. Basically, they can cite you for doing anything that isn't driving. I'm going to have to look it up.
guess it wasn't as far reaching as I thought:
http://www.hg.org/article.asp?id=18043

nrfitchett4 said:
Texas has a new "distracted driver" laws in effect. Basically, they can cite you for doing anything that isn't driving. I'm going to have to look it up.
guess it wasn't as far reaching as I thought:
http://www.hg.org/article.asp?id=18043
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Yeah, I live in Michigan, and we just started to pass laws. Lots of states have. We just got a "no texting" law. If an Officer sees you on your cell while driving you will absolutely get a ticket every time. I actually think this is a GREAT idea. Maybe we'll save some lives and when a person thinks to get on their phone while driving they'll think twice.

Opinions on the WHO's statement that cell phones may actually cause cancer?

Figured I would make a thread for it since I don't see one. Interested to see what you all think.

I can see the legitimacy of the claim considering the strength of the signals right next to your head. However for this to actually be proven will take time, a lot of it. If you use a cell phone constantly then investing in a bluetooth headset couldn't hurt,, but periodic use could be no worse than a day at the lake or beach.
Disclaimer : I am not a medical professional but a software developer, so these opinions are pure drivel and have no scientific basis other than knowing the scientific method and keeping my mind open to the possibility.
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Cause, doubtful.
Contribute, of course!
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There's been zero scientific studies that show any connection between cellphone use and any sort of cancer. Electro-sensitivity has also been entirely discredited, as people "suffering" from it were shown to have absolutely zero heightened ability to detect any sort of electrical field (which is probably a good thing, since the earth has a freaking massive one all around it).
It seems highly dangerous for the WHO to make any sort of statements like this without evidence to back it up. This is really just a political, not scientific, move.

>implying anybody puts their phones by their heads any more
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(cough) bull****! (cough)
havent we figured out now that everything will give you cancer
**** some asshats will tell you inorganic fruit and veggies will kill you! Haha I just laugh and wait for the air I breathe to give me cancer
Im sure somebody has a study that says it will
(cough) @!#% (cough)
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Living gives you cancer, dying doesn't. Being dead is the only way to be sure you won't get cancer, unless of course you had it when you died, then, I don't really know what hope you have

It doesn't take a genius to realize electromagnetic waves (radio) converge at our cell phone antennas and some of that energy is absorbed into our cells, closer to the antenna equals more absorption...since energy turns to heat obviously our cells are heated up and could damage dna over time...look at your microwave or an xray machine, yes given they are higher energy and lower wavelength they do much more damage but who knows what happens over 60 years of cell phone use if always holding it to the same ear
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Have a buddy who told me that he is cutting down on talk time on the phone cause of this - while he was lighting a cigarette.
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dmasjz45 said:
It doesn't take a genius to realize electromagnetic waves (radio) converge at our cell phone antennas and some of that energy is absorbed into our cells, closer to the antenna equals more absorption...since energy turns to heat obviously our cells are heated up and could damage dna over time...look at your microwave or an xray machine, yes given they are higher energy and lower wavelength they do much more damage but who knows what happens over 60 years of cell phone use if always holding it to the same ear
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These same geniuses can also figure out that more electromagnetic radiation (light) is absorbed in 10 minutes outside than likely in years of using a cell phone. Does tv cause cancer? tons of electromagnetic waves there too. I guess im screwed either way! Haha maybe I should take up smoking speed it up a lil!
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droidzach said:
These same geniuses can also figure out that more electromagnetic radiation (light) is absorbed in 10 minutes outside than likely in years of using a cell phone. Does tv cause cancer? tons of electromagnetic waves there too. I guess im screwed either way! Haha maybe I should take up smoking speed it up a lil!
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What a moron this guy is, did he really just try to compare the sun to cell phones? You do realize how easy it is to get skin cancer, right? And actually yes genius, crt screens are known to emit low levels of xrays, unless you're living in the 90's and pinning your ear to your tv you probably don't need to worry...as I said before radio waves converge at an antenna, why do you think there are rf warning signs posted near antenna towers? you clearly aren't very technical, probably isn't the best idea to argue with an engineer
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One, the findings are preliminary, not conclusive. The media needs to learn the difference. Two, everyone who follows even a little science knows cell phones have always contributed to cancer, as well as televisions, monitors, and just about anything electric. How much of a contribution cell phones make is the reason for the study, not IF, as media may confuse. Everyone knows all forms of radiation have a chance of altering the DNA of cells, therefore running the risk of making a cancerous cell, possibly causing full-blown cancer. Note the ifs in that statement. Even smoking cigarettes does not mean you WILL get cancer, it means more cells are modified, increasing the risk. Note the difference.
Anyhow, the study is preliminary, and therefore doesn't mean anything, yet. Prudence advices using your land-line, or bluetooth headset, seeing as it is much lower power, or speakerphone if you must use a cell phone. No matter the finding, cell phones at the ear will never be found good for you, so why wait for a finding to act?
My 14 cents.

Domush said:
No matter the finding, cell phones at the ear will never be found good for you, so why wait for a finding to act?
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Because if a year of using the cell phone contributes less to your cancer risk than going out just to check your mail in the morning, then it's a colossal waste of time, and effort. There have already been studies attempting to ascertain cell phone usage's contribution to cancer rates, and they've already failed to be able to show any increased risk.
Hell, people still sunbathe even though it's quite common knowledge that that massively increases your odds of getting skin cancer.

dmasjz45 said:
What a moron this guy is, did he really just try to compare the sun to cell phones? You do realize how easy it is to get skin cancer, right? And actually yes genius, crt screens are known to emit low levels of xrays, unless you're living in the 90's and pinning your ear to your tv you probably don't need to worry...as I said before radio waves converge at an antenna, why do you think there are rf warning signs posted near antenna towers? you clearly aren't very technical, probably isn't the best idea to argue with an engineer
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Haha I guess that engineers like this guy are too "technical" to understand simple sarcasm. The topic of this thread is a joke to me and thats all I was saying **** head. Im not afraid of getting cancer from my phone or tv or car radio or microwave or dental x rays or any other form of everyday very very low doses of radiation we encounter. Dont forget about all of the cosmic rays that are flying through your head right now! And you proved my point about the sun being way more dangerous by saying "do you know how easy it is to get skin cancer." (by the way heat is radiation too and is not what alters your cell's dna which is what cancer is) I wasnt arguing anything either where do you see arguments in my post? All radiation is electromagnetic waves right mr "engineer?" Radio waves converge at your car's antenna too, at every antenna. But I guess that im not "technical" enough to know that. Now I have to say this because you are just an asshole, but its very obvious that there are varying levels of radiation for everything some being more harmful than others. Every study that comes out seems to say you can get cancer from this and that. I just happen to think they are bull****. Maybe you "engineers" just need things explicitly stated so you can comprehend. (moron)
Sent from my SCH-I500 using electromagnetic waves(radiation) look out! hope you have a lead vest and helmet....

KitsuneKnight said:
Because if a year of using the cell phone contributes less to your cancer risk than going out just to check your mail in the morning, then it's a colossal waste of time, and effort. There have already been studies attempting to ascertain cell phone usage's contribution to cancer rates, and they've already failed to be able to show any increased risk.
Hell, people still sunbathe even though it's quite common knowledge that that massively increases your odds of getting skin cancer.
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They did the studies with GSM phones where the emitted energy signature is a huge spike relative to CDMA phones where the energy signature is so distributed and ever so nebulous, its damn difficult to even get a DX lock on.
"it's a colossal waste of time, and effort." +1

Remember when people thought cigarettes were good for you? And studies on the effects of prolonged use was incomplete? The studies are too young to give conclusive evidence here as well. People will give you all kinds of insight but ultimately its your life and you can chose to do what you want. You can proceed with caution or you can ignore it and assumed it has no effect. That is pretty much what it will boil down to until long term studies are done.

chefthomas99 said:
Have a buddy who told me that he is cutting down on talk time on the phone cause of this - while he was lighting a cigarette.
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^this. pretty much awesome.
10char

The study said that the radiation is non-ionizing like that of a micro-wave. The media grabbed at this and said "the cell phone is going to cook your brain." The levels are not enough to "cook" anything. The point of saying that it is non-ionizing is to say that the likelyhood of causing cancer is very low since the types of radiations that cause cancer (like x-rays) are all ionizing. There is no clear evidence that there is a health risk. The media will still try to scare everyone into watching the news by saying "There is no clear evidence that cell phones are completely safe." Twist it which ever way makes your nipplettes perky.

jamiekuhn said:
There is no clear evidence that there is a health risk.
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The Media said:
There is no clear evidence that cell phones are completely safe.
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Now, how is your statement any better than the media? You give unverified reassurance and the media gives unverified fear.
How many years passed before people even realized the effects of lead based paint? How about asbestos insulation? Hell, the first ever x-ray machines were used in shoe stores to judge your foot size! You think people thought they would get cancer from those back then?! I'm sure there were people lining up on both sides of the fence back then, too. All refusing to admit those three most difficult words of the self-assured "I.. don't.. know."
Stop doling out false conclusions when nobody knows the answer, hence preliminary findings. The answer is "We don't yet know enough to have an answer one way or the other." False calming has likely killed many more people than panic.
"Oh, these nuclear weapons tests.. no harm at all. Here, go clean up that green ooze with this here broom and dustpan."
or more recently..
"Formaldehyde is everywhere, we can't just go banning it because it's toxic"
As with anything potentially dangerous.. expose yourself as little as needed and no more.

Domush said:
....
As with anything potentially dangerous.. expose yourself as little as needed and no more.
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What are the evidences of the dangerous potential?