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I was looking for a couple of threads that I had recently bookmarked to go back to later on only to find that they weren't bookmarked anymore. I spent almost an hour searching for them only to find the one specific thread in the trash. No warning or reason was given. Why was this done? I can understand if it's a thread with only a single post or perhaps even one that has become outdated (like a Cupcake release date thread) but why a thread that has 4 pages of information for a topic that doesn't have any reference for it already? Isn't this going to just create more new threads? More e-mails? More questions? Isn't this defeating the purpose of posting a new thread about a topic that hasn't been posted or stickied, if it is just going to be deleted?
If you look in the trash you will find SEVERAL Dream threads. In fact... just on the first page HALF (TEN out of TWENTY) are from the Dream thread! So just to clearify... of the dozens of different threads for different phones half of all trash is for the G1??? Isn't the trash supposed to be for SPAM?
How are these spam (just from the first page)???
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=525564
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=524956
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=519591
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=525034
There are a few more of course but I can understand because most of the questions have been answerered and it would be faster and easier if these people used the search feature. But some haven't been. (example)
Instead of deleting the threads... merge them. But of course you get stuck with a 500+ page thread that MOST people will not read all the way through to see if the question they are about to ask has been asked/answered already. Which is of course why they post a new thread but guess what? It gets deleted and so another thread gets posted. It's never ending and I realize that this must be hard work for the mods.
So what to do?
I propose that instead of deleting these threads without reason or warning, to PM the original poster of the thread to ask of the significance of it and to provide a legitimate reason and purpose for it. Otherwise give warning or notice of the possible deletion. Of course this does not exempt the threads that are posting warez, copyright infringements and other obvious violations of memberships.
This is only my opinion and I hope that I have made an interesting point or two about this matter.
Look at the Sticky "Tough Love Moderation Alert". Basically the admins will lock/delete threads they think duplicate or off topic. I can't say as I agree with their method (no explanation) but there is a need to keep the threads under control. The development forum is the worst of the problem area but all the Dream forums have some abusers.
On the other hand it is leading to silly thread titles "[ONLY] something [ONLY]" (which is silly since people who would have posted off topic before still will) and confusion as well as "What happened to my last post" threads. Time will tell if their methods achieve their goal.
JanetPanic said:
Look at the Sticky "Tough Love Moderation Alert". Basically the admins will lock/delete threads they think duplicate or off topic. I can't say as I agree with their method (no explanation) but there is a need to keep the threads under control. The development forum is the worst of the problem area but all the Dream forums have some abusers.
On the other hand it is leading to silly thread titles "[ONLY] something [ONLY]" (which is silly since people who would have posted off topic before still will) and confusion as well as "What happened to my last post" threads. Time will tell if their methods achieve their goal.
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Yeah... okay. I agree that some of the most annoying problems with the dream thread is that people do post in the ROM Development thread. But is deleting so much easier then moving to the "Dream" thread? If so, does it out weight the inconvenience of the possiblity of the same question being reposted because it was unable to be found by the search feature?
Say this post gets deleted... and it likely will be... and someone else notices the same issue... and they search to see if this has been posted. Will they find it? No. Because hardly anyone looks in the trash. So what do they do? They post it as a new thread. So what happens? A mod goes in and deletes that post. And it repeats over and over again until the mods stop deleting the posts. Then what? Nothing. The post stays and maybe even grows. Is it really a bother that a thread is over a month old and hasn't had any recent posts? Does it really bother anyone? Of course not! They just ignore it, right? So why go through all the trouble to delete it? Some of the threads in the trash are still useful and there is absolutely no harm in keeping it in the proper catagories (ie Dream, Applications, Themes, etc).
Any mod that simply deletes a useful and recently commented thread because it was mistakenly posted under the wrong catgory instead of simply moving it, is just lazy in my own personal opinion and is doing more harm then good. Again... just my opinion.
Binary100100 said:
Say this post gets deleted... and it likely will be... and someone else notices the same issue... and they search to see if this has been posted. Will they find it? No. Because hardly anyone looks in the trash. So what do they do? They post it as a new thread. So what happens? A mod goes in and deletes that post. And it repeats over and over again until the mods stop deleting the posts. Then what? Nothing. The post stays and maybe even grows.
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That doesn't indicate that what the mods are doing is necessarily wrong, it means that new members continue to disregard the rules (posting already answered questions, posting in wrong forum, etc).
That said, I think the mods need to reevaluate how and when they do thread merges. The form of discussion in forums like these tend to be "conversation" centric. However, the threads are presented in a flat format (by default). That means that merging two threads of identical or similar topics will cause their conversations to intermix, with disastrous results. People already have piss-poor reading skills as it is.
What do you expect the moderators to do? We didn't give them a choice. The Dream forums are out of control and it would take the 3 or 4 moderators for these forums 8 hours a day not being paid to police it. You want someone to blame? Blame your fellow XDA members because there are only 2 solutions for this problem:
Get more moderators to baby sit the forums or increase the quality of posting within the Dream forums. The later is what we need here and what the moderators are hoping for.
Edit: And honestly, I think this is the best method. Do we have the potential for losing good information? Yes. This is how you teach the multitudes of Dream posters that there are consequences for being ignorant. Being stupid is not an excuse.
It is pretty annoying how the Dream thread has exploded and that the same questions just keep on cropping up. When I reply I do try to either re-direct them to my signature (which has the basic links to Dude's ROM, SPL, Apps2SD, Radio etc), teach them how to search with the actual result or just point them to the right direction.
However with 500+ pages or whatever, it can become a chore for newbies to read though, even if 70% of the info is in the first page.
I did recommend to the mods that the Dream section needs cleaning up, with a dedicated sub forum purely for the established (or popular) cooked ROMs. So underneath the Dream Dev sub-forum is another just for JF, Dude, Cyanogen, Haykuro etc. That should remove quite a lot of traffic and usual questions then from what is supposed to be a general development thread for other matters.
Then I would suggest a much more organised and up to date FAQ in such a sub-forum which covers all of the same questions that get asked daily. Any such questions that get asked in any of the ROM forums would then be re-directed to the FAQ.
Most of us I'm sure have come from large forums (lik-sang, avsfoums, etc) and know how to search, read etc but many newer members don't, be it due to lack of effort etc. However I'm sure there are many genuine new members who are willing to learn that only need a nudge in the right direction. Simply blocking them off by trashing, linking them only to the search page etc isn't helpful and won't generate a positive community.
I would put myself forward to help moderate the Dream section but I know that zero mod positions are available at the moment, but I do agree with the OP that trashing isn't always the solution.
NeoBlade said:
linking them only to the search page etc isn't helpful and won't generate a positive community.
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The main problem is that for the veterans who have been here since Sept/Oct 2008, everything more or less makes sense because they have seen it evolve to its current state. It's a lot like a guy who lives in a very very messy room who can still find the book buried under a pile of empty ramen cups and dirty laundry. Thus its easy to say "use the search!" in response to any newbie query. That said, from the first-timer newbie perspective, there are a few problems: 1) A lot of information crammed into two poorly organized subforums. 2) A lot of information is outdated and is superseded or contradicts newer information. 3) Some of the sticky threads have very poorly written or maintained first posts.
Sticky threads are not a very good way to store information for general consumption, unless the original poster is a very good communicator and also vigilantly updates the first post with concise information from the entire thread, no matter how long it is. Of the former sticky posts, few actually meet that standard. The ideal format for information conveyance is wiki, but then there is the disconnection between the wiki and active development. In other words, people don't like to move back and forth between the wiki and the forum.
I know what you mean jashu, I love my "organised mess" at home ^_^
It does take effort alright in keeping threads on topic and up to date, I remember when administrating the TokyoToys forum (I since had to close it, joint decision by myself and the owner) and also organising events for fans and people alike to meet up and have fun, took effort and more often enough without any recognition as well which can get discouraging.
Certainly if the OP kept his or her first post updated often enough with information it will keep questions down to a minimum however I still approve of a well made FAQ which is stickied. It then becomes a focal point as any FAQ should. I'm actually in the middle of writing one myself and once its done and the people concerned are happy with it, I would be happy to post it here too.
Ideally a wiki would be best because its user editable however I had a look at the XDA wiki and it does need a bit of TLC.
I will qualify my statement in that I come from the standpoint as an administrator in a prominent Linux forum that gets more posts in an hour in than the Dream forums get in a day. I firmly believe that draconian administration is not the answer and makes the forum far less pleasant to use. I think of administration as keeping things civil and posts in the right forum more than controlling creation of threads. Forcing the organization into a few mammoth threads is not any better than letting users create new threads without rules.
The developers forum is a bit of a mess and completely left to its own it would be worse than it is. The Development forum is not really about development anymore though. It more of a "custom ROM" forum. It is rare that I see an actual post on development on the android platform. Since the primary topic on the forum is custom ROMs the support questions for said ROMs get put in the development forum and generates a mess. Creating a ROM forum would just shift the mess, so I am not sure that would be better.
I think eventually the newbies who are flooding the forum with threads that could be answered by searching will either go away or learn to search. The current choice of administration is not educating the newbies though, it is just forcing them to learn. Regardless of how any of us users feel about the subject though the administrators have made their choice on how to deal with the Dream sub-forums. We are just along for the ride.
The thought that scares me more than any other is that the flood of newbies up to this stage could be just the tip of the iceburg. XDA-Dev before the last year or so was a forum for a fairly small group of people who generally know how to deal with their own problems. Lately the number of users with limited technical ability and desire have been increasing. This is partly due to the ease of having the Android platform, partly due to the fact that smart phones in general (including iPhone) are becoming much more mainstream. If android truly takes off on HTC phones then either the users will have to be forceful to new users to get them into line fast or the philosophy of the XDA-dev forums itself will need to change. Linux forums have a reputation for rude users, this is largely due to the veterans being unforgiving to repeated questions. Harsh but it does work over time.
JanetPanic said:
The thought that scares me more than any other is that the flood of newbies up to this stage could be just the tip of the iceburg. XDA-Dev before the last year or so was a forum for a fairly small group of people who generally know how to deal with their own problems. Lately the number of users with limited technical ability and desire have been increasing. This is partly due to the ease of having the Android platform, partly due to the fact that smart phones in general (including iPhone) are becoming much more mainstream. If android truly takes off on HTC phones then either the users will have to be forceful to new users to get them into line fast or the philosophy of the XDA-dev forums itself will need to change.
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This and the fact that it's brand spanking new. Give it time and the kids will find something new to play with and move on while the people that give a rats arse (us) will be left behind. I've seen it time and time again on car forums. This isn't any different. The first 6 months is bliss. The following 1-2 years is absolute hell. Then comes the volume drop off and the true development. I've all for tough love but it's not like the tide is ever going to stop. We are just going to have to wait it out.
There's always methods in dealing with issues and I do agree that its more of a ROM section than Development thesedays... Hence in my opinion it would be better off having a ROM section for such people to post on, which will clear up for people actually developling or helping to improve the android platform - Most notibly the Bluetooth OBEX support.
This isn't the fastest forum I've seen or been involved in in terms of volumes of posts, however it is getting to the point where re-structuring and possibly more moderators are needed to help ease the burden. When a large number of people register and start being active, it is often the best time to set an example and indeed set and establish a community where people help people - Be it to simple things as pointing them to the right direction to much more techinical issues.
Without the ethos to help each other, where would open source be?
Granted I know nothing about Linux myself and couldn't code to save my life but I do enjoy the technical discussions that take place. A lot of this is lost with the usual questions that get asked, hence the need for a more up to date FAQ. Tough love is needed but I believe with the right organisation, it shouldn't have to be the only answer.
uberingram said:
This and the fact that it's brand spanking new. Give it time and the kids will find something new to play with and move on while the people that give a rats arse (us) will be left behind. I've seen it time and time again on car forums. This isn't any different. The first 6 months is bliss. The following 1-2 years is absolute hell. Then comes the volume drop off and the true development. I've all for tough love but it's not like the tide is ever going to stop. We are just going to have to wait it out.
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the G1 is the new sidekick. and the sidekick was such a fad and trend for kids to use as a phone. the hip hop and celebrity community did well in terms of marketing the sidekick to the mainstream public as being a "your not cool if you don't have one of these" items. also the emo/scene kids are all about what the "in" things and fads are, so that highly popularized the sidekick as well.
and now since the G1 came out, most of the people that got a sidekick for those particular reasons mentioned above, are now "upgrading" to the next newer cooler big thing.... the G1.
young people love to follow trends, fads, and what's cool at the moment.
right now, the G1 is just that.
it's a double edge for Android and the G1. the popularity is one of the key things needed to make Android and the G1 a success. but with popularity comes a lot riff raff and criticism that is not welcomed so well. but i digress lol
i just hope the sidekick comes out with a touchscreen version or something, so the kids have something new shiny to play with haha
Not owned a sidekick before but then I presume its more popular in the USA than it is in the UK? I moved to the G1 after my Nokia N95. Got impatient waiting for the N97 so made the jump and thanks to the incomplete stock OS, I was tempted to move back to my N95 until JF released his research, Haykuro and Dude. Now it feels more complete with only a few things missing.
Back on topic though, the place isn't as bad as it could be but since this is more a development forum to begin with and not a social based one, just a few tweaks here and there would help newbies a little.
NeoBlade said:
Not owned a sidekick before but then I presume its more popular in the USA than it is in the UK? I moved to the G1 after my Nokia N95. Got impatient waiting for the N97 so made the jump and thanks to the incomplete stock OS, I was tempted to move back to my N95 until JF released his research, Haykuro and Dude. Now it feels more complete with only a few things missing.
Back on topic though, the place isn't as bad as it could be but since this is more a development forum to begin with and not a social based one, just a few tweaks here and there would help newbies a little.
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ohhh i have an idea...
like when you sign up you pick the phone and platform you use then instantly redirects the new member to a FAQ or pertinent threads associated to their liking of phone and platform and at the same time directly email them a link to those FAQ and whatnot.
NeoBlade said:
Not owned a sidekick before but then I presume its more popular in the USA than it is in the UK?.
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Yeah, it's just how mrcrs described it. The Sidekick became quite the fashion accessory model when celebrities started picking them up. They are pictured all over the tabloids and mentioned a lot of times in up-start musician's songs. I doubt very much that it would have panned out this way if T-Mobile released the SideKick 3G before the G1 but then again, T-Mobile needed a victory and a halo phone really fast.
That would take a fair amount of modification to the forum files to do (I've done my fair share of phpBB, phpBB Plus, IPB etc) and also is on the pretence that every single mobile has a suitable FAQ to begin with.
And easier way and modification to the forum could be to send a general stock welcoming PM along with a reminder to search and any additional helpful links within. That is, if XDA wants to go down that route.
NeoBlade said:
That would take a fair amount of modification to the forum files to do (I've done my fair share of phpBB, phpBB Plus, IPB etc) and also is on the pretence that every single mobile has a suitable FAQ to begin with.
And easier way and modification to the forum could be to send a general stock welcoming PM along with a reminder to search and any additional helpful links within. That is, if XDA wants to go down that route.
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whenever i join forums and in my inbox i get a message automatically, which is usually from the forum itself, i usually disregard it because all it is a "welcome to xyz forums... yada yada yada... enjoy your time here"
i usually don't open and read it, delete it then... go wreck havoc on finding out the information i want to know or read about. but that's just me
JanetPanic said:
This is partly due to the ease of having the Android platform, partly due to the fact that smart phones in general (including iPhone) are becoming much more mainstream. If android truly takes off on HTC phones then either the users will have to be forceful to new users to get them into line fast or the philosophy of the XDA-dev forums itself will need to change.
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To get a glimpse of where Dream/Magic forum is headed, just look at the xda Winmo forums. "Development" in this case basically just means rom customization. It's already pretty much at that state here too. Of course if Android fulfills its promise of being a mainstream smartphone OS, there will be many more newbies here than there ever were on the Winmo forums (you don't see many kids rocking Touch Diamonds).
Linux forums have a reputation for rude users, this is largely due to the veterans being unforgiving to repeated questions. Harsh but it does work over time.
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IMO there's nothing wrong with being a bit curt, especially in the "development" forum. This isn't an interactive tutorial, a hand-holding journey. Too many people seem to get the idea that the unsupported hacks enabled by rooting can be generalized and simplified for mass-market consumption. That kind of thinking is faulty and the resulting bad publicity may jeopardize the Android hacking community on the whole.
The problem is that in most cases, being rude only keeps away users who had initial reservations and cautions to rooting-- precisely the kind of user who actually might take the time to indepedently and/or responsibly learn how to do things properly.
jashsu said:
To get a glimpse of where Dream/Magic forum is headed, just look at the xda Winmo forums. "Development" in this case basically just means rom customization. It's already pretty much at that state here too. Of course if Android fulfills its promise of being a mainstream smartphone OS, there will be many more newbies here than there ever were on the Winmo forums (you don't see many kids rocking Touch Diamonds).
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I have been here since 2005 with the Blue Angel (then the Wizard, Jam, Magician, and the Artemis). Eventually XDA started dedicating a subforum to ROMs with the general development thread up top for WinMo development. The Dream right now just has the one combined forum. Another difference is that the ROM threads in Dream seem to grow faster than I remember on the WinMo threads. I am not sure what the difference is, maybe that usually there are a couple debug threads that die out which in the Dream forum is discouraged. Regardless the rapid posting makes it harder to keep up with more than one ROM.
jashsu said:
IMO there's nothing wrong with being a bit curt, especially in the "development" forum. This isn't an interactive tutorial, a hand-holding journey. Too many people seem to get the idea that the unsupported hacks enabled by rooting can be generalized and simplified for mass-market consumption. That kind of thinking is faulty and the resulting bad publicity may jeopardize the Android hacking community on the whole.
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I agree, well put.
jashsu said:
The problem is that in most cases, being rude only keeps away users who had initial reservations and cautions to rooting-- precisely the kind of user who actually might take the time to indepedently and/or responsibly learn how to do things properly.
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Good point as well.
Okay I have been on this forum for a few months now and I still consider my self a noob it seems as though that magical search feature that everyone demands us noobs use is not too noob friendly and to prove this I documented my frustration when trying to get this nandroid thingy to work.
Supposed noob thread: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=3816278&postcount=3
EDIT: I am 99.9% sure this will work with a PVT board. I am not sure about DVT BUT if you are willing to risk bricking your G1 to find out, that would be great Reboot in fastboot and make sure it says "DREA100 PVT"
First of all what the hell is a PVT board? And what the hell is fastboot??? UHh wait I have to do another search on this stupid PVT board and this stupid fastboot. Searching…..
Searched for fastboot here is what came up:
http://www.google.com/cse?cx=000825...boot+&sa=Search&cof=FORID:0&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8
After clicking several search results there is not one single post that defines exactly what fastboot is or specifically what it does.
Searching for PVT Board……
And the results were: http://www.google.com/custom?hl=en&...G=Search&cx=000825531964825142534:cqr2sjirilw
Not one single related post that clearly states what a PVT Board really is. Okay that’s out the window, maybe I can figure it out by reading how people are talking about it. Fun stuff. Unable to decypther what the hell people are talking about, NEXT search!
Okay now I want to find out what the hell a nandroid backup is.
Searching Nandroid…
Wow First success!! First result takes me to this post: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=459830
Oh no not again more words to search!!
Okay I see two strange words I do not know Busybox (wtf?) and adbd.
Searching Busybox….
http://www.google.com/cse?cx=000825...sybox&sa=Search&cof=FORID:0&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8
Results are not clear, just links me to some posts that have some RC30 release (is the RC30 busybox? That is still not clear. Other results refer to it as some kind of back up tool, I thought the nandroid was a backup tool? SO that goes out the door Next search adbd….
Searching adbd..... Nothing that directly defines what exactly adbd is, all I got was people talking about it but never directly referencing exactly what it is ( ex: “need some questions answered about adbd and debuggerd Dream android development.” Or “restarting adbd as root”) Maybe it stands for a dumb big day? God knows.
Okay back to the original Nandroid post because its really important that a noob does a back up just incase right?………
I decided to go ahead and proceed without knowing what those two words were (of course I’ll get yelled at by everyone for not searching if I make a post asking what they meant so no point in posting).
Oh this is probably my favorite part of the post!!!
LOL the easy part!!!-* How to use this (the easy part)
And below it is this sentence:
“Just boot your phone in recovery mode with the correct recovery.img (one that has adb shell as root + busybox installed with symlinks to tar, md5sum etc) and connect it to your pc/laptop/server. Then run the nandroid.sh script. If something is wrong or missing, it will tell you. “
So lets break down this sentince (as a noob) line by line.
1st line: Just boot your phone in recovery mode with the correct recovery.img
Recovery mode? I think that is the pressing of the HOME+END key or is it the END+CAM keys? Which do you mean????? My guess is the HOME+END.
2nd line: (one that has adb shell as root + busybox installed with symlinks to tar, md5sum etc) WOA dude what planet you on?!! This entire line makes no freakin sense to me. And I do not think searching will help us there. “one that has adb shell as root” WTF is the one that has adb shell???? And wtf is adb??? And symlinks to tar? Is that encrypted language for his secret lover to find him? Geez how is anyone supposed to learn by searching stuff like this?? Okay at this point im just about to give up on this whole damn back up and just live without it, next line….
3rd line: Then run the nandroid.sh script. If something is wrong or missing, it will tell you.
Umm HOW? How do I run the nandroid.sh script and on WHAT operating system? Mac, Windows, Linux??? The only thing wrong or missing is proper Instructions and good English course!!!
If you are going to post a tutorial please don’t assume that everyone knows what your talking about and skip over steps that you think are elementary when in-fact you will discover that sometimes not everyone knows what you are talking about.
BTW I found this tutorial here (where supposedly 95% of my questions are answered….. umm sure): http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=519523
Isnt this article supposedly posted to be in the pre-reading material before a noob posts questions?
This is not the only article that I found not to be noob friendly, in-fact I found very little articles that were noob friendly, here is yet another thread that I found to be rediculy confusing: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=512453
When I first went to this thread (before knowing what WIPE meant) I was like WTF is this guy crazy. Then he goes on to talk about some crazy loop (which he does not state how or where you get this mysterious loop) then he goes and pasts some code that god knows where the hell your supposed to paste it, on the phone in the command prompt or is it only in the mac????
There are soo many more threads like the ones above. It is no wonder why noobs post the same questions over and over again, its because people assume that everyone else knows what their talking about and skip what they think are useless 2 or 3 steps, well I got news for you buddy, those silly 2 or 3 steps are probably the most important steps to beginner. I am still fairly new to this forum and still am having trouble figuring out what people are talking about. I just wish that there were some kind of rules or guidelines when writing instructions or how-to guides. The ONLY guide on this entire forum that I found to be clearly written and total noob proof is this thread here:http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=502010 Everyone should take a few pointers from this person that wrote that thread, although he never stated the purpose of it at the start but that’s minor.
Sorry if I offended anyone but this is the ugly truth for us noobs, it really is hard when your first starting out and some one bashes you for asking a question that’s been asked before or the noob didn’t search. Well the search feature is not exactly that great and you almost always do not find the answer to that one noob question. And yes I am very grateful for all these great hacks and I am just posting this just out of frustration from having to constantly search and after having spent hours searching and searching. I am almost certain that I am not the only noob with this problem.
My next journey is Themes my G1 phone (God help me).
Thanks,
Abe
well the essential problem is that there will always be more noobs than not...no matter how many tutorials and guides that are posted it still will not be enough for some noobs...i did not know what i was doing myself but you first you have to understand what you are reading. so after a while after reading and searching the internet i understand what i am doing and am continuing to learn...this place was not meant to be a place for exacting directions and tutorials (ala development for Dummies)...
And i do not mean anything as an insult...i am just trying to explain that this is not an organized affair with a specific hierarchy, it is a community of developers experimenting and passing that knowledge off to others in the community.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=519523
that link is from the first or second thread on the development section...reading through those will give you a lot of the answers your looking for....
and to be honest if you do not have a clue as to what the stuff your reading is then research the internet...otherwise you definitely should not attempt any of this stuff.
All I will say Is I managed to root my phone by reading multiple threads.
I actually started reading threads before I got my phone . It was confusing but thats why I kept reading . If i didnt understand something I would read over and over again. As far as finding out what busybox was I used regular old google search for that . Heres what i found based on that search.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BusyBox.
I have learned to not soley rely on the in forum search because it doesnt always seem that helpful. I think overall what the vets what is for the "noobs" to help themselves first before having someone hold their hand.
It is pretty ironic that you bought a phone featuring Google search and now want to hack it, and instead of taking time to actually learn searching techniques you write a page long rant on your incapability to do some simple research. If you cannot figure out what some of these basic terms mean, then you shouldn't be hacking your phone in the first place.
Also, what in the hell are you talking about? You say that we are asking you to search first, hello? You only have ONE post in our community, you haven't asked us ANYTHING.
Honestly, this forum is already very organized. Granted, you are a noob, but really, it isn't all that difficult. If there is something you just really can't figure out, ask it now, I would be happy to answer it for you.
SolemnWishing said:
It is pretty ironic that you bought a phone featuring Google search and now want to hack it, and instead of taking time to actually learn searching techniques you write a page long rant on your incapability to do some simple research. If you cannot figure out what some of these basic terms mean, then you shouldn't be hacking your phone in the first place.
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Take it easy, man. What's basic for one person may be quantum theory for another. Everyone isn't the same-we all perceive and learn differently. The noobs are tired of senior members telling them to search, and the senior members are tired of noobs asking redundant questions.
Also, what in the hell are you talking about? You say that we are asking you to search first, hello? You only have ONE post in our community, you haven't asked us ANYTHING.
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I think he means other noobs have been told to search when asking a question...
Anyway, OP:
the forums are huge and contain a boatload of information. If you don't understand a tutorial or certain terms, ASK. PM the OP of the tutorial or someone in the thread that sounds like they know what they are saying. Follow devs on twitter, and read extensively. Get involved.
You have to understand that there have been hundreds of noobs that only come here to ask "OMG HOW DO I ROOT??" without wanting to understand ANY underlying details. They get caught in a bootloop, get errors, or brick their phone because they don't follow directions and they want to hold devs responsible.
These people want the easy way out, so don't be surprised if senior members and devs here are hesitant in replying to a thread that has been started countless times before. Also, every one here has a life (almost everyone ), so they may not always be available 24/7 to answer unimportant (to them) questions.
I've been with this forum for little over a year now and search function may not be the best but does help a lot. I've started out with the dash, mda, tilt and now the g1. i've just been recently been posting because everything everyone does here is great. I still consider myself a noob and still learning. Ranting like this doesn't really help, spoon feeding noobs gets tiresome and i can see why the seniors gets frustrated. All you need is the patients to read thru the posts and not get blown away with all the lingo and information overload that gets yourself more confused.
This is a community built by the community no one expects to get payed for helping out, so be thankful for what this forum bring. [/rant]
I don't see whats hard about this forum.
I just followed the guides and I was set.
This is a DEVELOPER forum, so I expect it will be a little difficult to use
You don't take physics before taking elementary school math.
That's the way I look at.
But I partially share your thoughts.
I am the first to agree that a search button or Google are your best friends.
What makes a successful search, though, is your choice or keywords or phrases. And I've run into those times that had I known the proper combination of terms to use (one's that would weed-out the bizillion of results that don't relate), I would have easily found the proper answer. I've gotten buried in search results that lead to endless threads only to find out that the Google search I did for "Android Bluetooth Cupcake" might have been better had I narrowed it further with "Android Bluetooth +"File Transfer" +application". That was probably a poor example, but you know what I mean. Searching for broad and common terms usually turns up useless results, we give up in disgust, and that's when some of the redundant posts get made. I also continue to have trouble decided whether a post belongs in the "Dream" forum or the developer forum. And we won't even go into whether they belong in the developer forum, app forum or theme forum. To me, they all cross similar boundaries at times.
There are lots of other forums that are intended for end-users with technical questions. They break things down in easier to understand terms (at least for me). Most of them link to XDA for the downloads, but they offer support on their own forums. I frequent XDA the most, but I still haunt the ubber-newbie sites as well. I still learn from them.
One last thing... It's been said that the internet is akind to the wild, wild west. Forums and mailing lists are usually the worst. If there wasn't some type of moderation/control over XDA, there would be telling how deep we would have to wade to find one meaningful post. I'm as guilty as the next person of wanting immediate answers when I think I've ruined a $400 phone. Luckily, I think the rescue tutorials here are fairly good at outlining the needed steps. No, they may not explain what's happening with each step along the way... but they do give you the necessary steps to get you out a bind. If you'll remain calm, follow the steps, not expect your hand to be held during the process, and only resort to asking for help when all else fails, you'll probably get your phone working the way you want it AND learn along the way. It's the equivalent of junior high vs a college or university. Once you make a conscious choice to go beyond what's required, you're expected to do a lot of the work yourself without the teacher constantly having to offer a refresher course on the basics.
Just my opinion.
Damn double post
I know I am gonna sound like a jerk, but I am a jerk most of the time, so what ..
I suggest that we refuse to answer Questions that are posted in the wrong Forum ...
The Stickies clearly state what to post where ...
If you have a question about an app, and it is not an app that has its own thread in "Themes and Apps" it Goes in "Q&A"
If you have a question about how to flash a ROM, it does not go in the ROM thread, that thread is for ROM developers to post their ROMs
If you have a question about a specific ROM it does NOT go in the Q&A it goes in the ROM thread or wherever that Chef wants you to post it ....
If you want to know how to install a Theme or a Mod, it goes in the Q&A , questions about a specific Theme or App it goes in the thread for them.
Now I know that the people that this actually pertains to will not even read this this post, so I leave it up to those that waste their time wading through senseless threads that are in the wrong place and constantly having to tell people to move things around, to decide to help police it..
We are a community, we cannot just say, "Let the Mods handle it..." There are way more of us than there are of them.
I could rant on this subject for hours but you get the point ....
Now not saying if it is the persons 1st or 2nd post that they should be pounced on, but should be nudged with whatever amount of force is needed to get them to understand.
The mods have enough problems to deal with, we should all be intelligent enough to, read the rules , read the stickies, and use some common sense ...
Thanks ....
Mods Please delete this if you feel it is over the top ..........
EDIT:
This really is a site wide issue not just picking on the LEO forum, but I am in this one 99.8925674% of the time, so figured I'd put my soapbox down here ...
While I agree with everything your saying Im not sure if ignoring the posts will do any good, they'll just end up posting again 20 minutes later asking why nobodys responding to them.........
I've not been around here all that long but I get the impression that this epidemic of repetitive questions and pointless threads is a fairly recent thing and is getting worse and worse...... No doubt this is due to so called "smartphones" being made more readily available to dumbasses, myself included.
The only reason I ever ended up visiting XDA was because I had a problem with my shiny new windows mobile and google directed me here as I'm sure it does to hundreds of people on a daily basis.
I dont really think that there is any sure way to reduce the amount of pointlessness thats occuring.
Perhaps a 24 waiting period between registering and being able to post might encourage those who turn up for the first time to search before posting.
Unfortunately we have to put up with the fact that 94.6% of the worlds populations are just dicks.............
conantroutman said:
While I agree with everything your saying Im not sure if ignoring the posts will do any good, they'll just end up posting again 20 minutes later asking why nobodys responding to them.........
I've not been around here all that long but I get the impression that this epidemic of repetitive questions and pointless threads is a fairly recent thing and is getting worse and worse...... No doubt this is due to so called "smartphones" being made more readily available to dumbasses, myself included.
The only reason I ever ended up visiting XDA was because I had a problem with my shiny new windows mobile and google directed me here as I'm sure it does to hundreds of people on a daily basis.
I dont really think that there is any sure way to reduce the amount of pointlessness thats occuring.
Perhaps a 24 waiting period between registering and being able to post might encourage those who turn up for the first time to search before posting.
Unfortunately we have to put up with the fact that 94.6% of the worlds populations are just dicks.............
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I know nothing may change, but I can always hope, I agree with the 94.6% thing fully ....
But if they keep posting the same question over and over THEN it does fall in the Mods domain as spamming , and the mods can handle it with legitimate reason.
I mean simple things, like posting in the wrong forum/thread , it is like walking into a bakery and asking them to change the oil in your car , I mean what kind of person does it take to do a bonehead move like that ...
Oh and I am not saying to really to ignore the posts, because people might learn if a few people hit their thread in the wrong place, and tell them they have the answers but will not answer it because it is in the wrong thread, I know that is being a ****, but , sometimes teaching means writing the lesson on a big stick and smacking them with it till they get the message ..
watcher64 said:
I know nothing may change, but I can always hope, I agree with the 94.6% thing fully ....
But if they keep posting the same question over and over THEN it does fall in the Mods domain as spamming , and the mods can handle it with legitimate reason.
I mean simple things, like posting in the wrong forum/thread , it is like walking into a bakery and asking them to change the oil in your car , I mean what kind of person does it take to do a bonehead move like that ...
Oh and I am not saying to really to ignore the posts, because people might learn if a few people hit their thread in the wrong place, and tell them they have the answers but will not answer it because it is in the wrong thread, I know that is being a ****, but , sometimes teaching means writing the lesson on a big stick and smacking them with it till they get the message ..
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One reason we (and I refer to new folks like me) have a difficulty with this (well I do, any road up) is that the thread header, or whatever they're called are so full of guff.. unnecessary messing about with symbols and other distracting crapola. I for one am looking for another theme to replace my constantly crashing sense and am always lost.
Perhaps a plea for making the headers clearer would be necessary too
blakeboro said:
One reason we (and I refer to new folks like me) have a difficulty with this (well I do, any road up) is that the thread header, or whatever they're called are so full of guff.. unnecessary messing about with symbols and other distracting crapola. I for one am looking for another theme to replace my constantly crashing sense and am always lost.
Perhaps a plea for making the headers clearer would be necessary too
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I would not argue against that point at all .... Can't find it or even search for it , if it is unreadable in the first place ....
watcher64 said:
I know nothing may change, but I can always hope, I agree with the 94.6% thing fully ....
But if they keep posting the same question over and over THEN it does fall in the Mods domain as spamming , and the mods can handle it with legitimate reason.
I mean simple things, like posting in the wrong forum/thread , it is like walking into a bakery and asking them to change the oil in your car , I mean what kind of person does it take to do a bonehead move like that ...
Oh and I am not saying to really to ignore the posts, because people might learn if a few people hit their thread in the wrong place, and tell them they have the answers but will not answer it because it is in the wrong thread, I know that is being a ****, but , sometimes teaching means writing the lesson on a big stick and smacking them with it till they get the message ..
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Yeah that does sound fair enough...........
Ive just had a good laugh at the thought of somebody walking into a bakery and asking how to flash there HD2..........
@blakeboro - a lot of the thread titles actually give a pretty good indication of what they are about (once you get used to it), but your right some are just total gibberish, there are guidelines on how to title releases etc but as with most of the rules they tend to be ignored far too often.......
Let me throw in my $0.02 in here.
As watcher mentioned already, there are very few of us compared to the sheer volume of users that we get on a daily basis and it is very difficult for us to do everything we do, plus having to baby sit people who cannot read the rules.
The rules of the site are very simple and straight forward. In fact, Rule #1 is "Search before you post". Even if the title of the thread itself is misleading, you don't have to go through threads to find what you are looking for. The site does have a search engine, which may not be the best, but it gets the job done. Also, you have our friend Google...
Responding harshly to threads/posts with questions that are completely out of place may work (most times it doesn't though), but here is the approach that I have always used. Flaming the user takes you nowhere and tends to ignite flame wars as users get pissed with one another. Shortly after that, since this is a public forum, everyone and their grandmother believes that they are entitled to give their two cents/piece of mind... and that's when things begin to get ugly, which is why we have to get involved and in many cases, we (moderators) end up looking like bad guys because we don't allow user A to tell user B what he/she thinks of the situation. There have been many instances where users just flat out turn against mods, stating that we are on power trips and stuff like that, case which couldn't be further away from the truth.
Ignoring the posts doesn't really cut it either as it is very likely that the user in question will either bump his question or ask again. As much as we don't like it, it happens... a lot. So, if you have the time, it helps us tremendously when you report the posts, because we can move the post/thread to where the person may get help and not be flamed for it, which in turn avoids the flame war situation depicted above. It helps also if you don't post inflammatory comments in the post of the "Search you stupid n00b" line.
If you know the answer and feel like helping others, simply post the answer with an explanation that next time, he should post in the right section. Otherwise, just report it and we will move it.
FYI, this has been the case for XDA for as long as the site has been running. It happens more nowadays because our user base is on the rise.
@egzthunder1 I do agree with not flaming them, but at the same time a "Flame" is a relative term, we have seen threads blow up , just by suggesting they search, because their post is a couple of days old and nobody has the answer ...
So really I don't know what the answer is, I don't think anybody does, how do you "make" someone learn ...
I mean to use the analogy I used earlier, it is like going into a bakery shop to get your cars oil changed, if the person stopped and read the sign that mistake would not be made ...
The problem on forums I think is the anonymity of the internet/forum, people think they can shut their brain off, and since we don't know who they are we'll spoonfeed them just to shut them up ...
This does not make a good environment for anybody here, the Devs get bogged down with BS posts, the Users have to wade through countless posts to find what they are looking for.
So while it is not a perfect solution, while not ignoring their posts, waiting till they are in the right place or asked correctly/nicely, to answer them might start to train them, pavlov's dogs and all ....
I just reported quite a few in the themes and apps forum. I really don't see a way to stop it without posing an undue burden on the moderators.
You could for instance have all "new" post in the themes and apps forum have to be approved by a moderator.
Or perhaps have a question come up asking if this is a new theme, app, wallpaper, ringtone, question, request, etc. when someone clicks to post a "new" thread. This could even insert "[THEME]", "[APP]", "[WALLPAPERS]" into the thread title as most authors currently do and new question, request selections could go to the Q&A forums instead of posting in the apps forum.
The problem is the first way would burden down the moderators even more while the second would require some special programming.
I think that instead of just having the forum layout of the threads oldest to newest, replies to a specific thread be attached to that tread and to see them you have to expand them. Just sayin.
Phantoms said:
I just reported quite a few in the themes and apps forum. I really don't see a way to stop it without posing an undue burden on the moderators.
You could for instance have all "new" post in the themes and apps forum have to be approved by a moderator.
Or perhaps have a question come up asking if this is a new theme, app, wallpaper, ringtone, question, request, etc. when someone clicks to post a "new" thread. This could even insert "[THEME]", "[APP]", "[WALLPAPERS]" into the thread title as most authors currently do and new question, request selections could go to the Q&A forums instead of posting in the apps forum.
The problem is the first way would burden down the moderators even more while the second would require some special programming.
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Yeah. I counted 13+ that you reported. That's insane! Thanks for the help but unforunately I cannot do it since it's not my fora. I like your ideas... that is all but the "must approve post" one. There are currently 2,511,618 active members and it's growing on a daily basis. And the handful of moderators (only about 80 or so and 29 of them are device specific such as myself) have 434,244 threads to monitor as of this moment for the 84 different devices. So it's very difficult for us to continuously monitor half a million threads for 84+ devices with only 80 moderators. (ref stats)
Also keep in mind that because of this very limited amount of moderators to keep the site organized, clean and friendly it would be difficult and not to mention very time consuming to approve new threads each time and still be productive in the forums.
There is also the matter of urgancy.
I have come across more posts than I could count that someone has literally begged for immediate assistance. It could take hours or even days to approve the post for that member. We are trying to encourage people to use the site. That may only prove to be counter-productive.
The idea of a quick questionaire might help... but even I would have to admit that there have been times that I've seen a post that could be relavant to multiple forums (such as a question or statement about building roms, Q&A or development?) It's a tough call for even some of the most experienced members and may prove to be too much of a hassle. Oh and Watcher, this really should be in General since it's not actually pertaining to this particular device but to the forum as a whole. Even you mentioned this yourself in your original thread which only proves my point that there can be a black and white area as to where to post something.
So in the meantime just continue doing what your doing and they will be moved eventually. What I tend to do in my forums is move the thead in question and post a reason as to why I moved it. Sometimes send a warning to the OP stating that (s)he should review the forum rules about searching and post in the appropriate thread or else I won't just move it next time... I'll move and close it until he sends me a quote of forum rule #1 and give me at least three reasons as to why it is important to post in the correct section. In my opinion we should educate these members since most of them are Junior Members.
Which brings me to my idea. I have this crazy idea that for Junior Members ONLY should have to go through a CAPTCHA verification on a agreement of the rules before being able to post anything. That way if these members do post in the wrong section it gives us more grounds to take the appropriate action. It may also cut down on the SPAM that the site receives.
In any case, keep reporting the posts and we'll keep cleaning it up for ya.
Binary100100 said:
Which brings me to my idea. I have this crazy idea that for Junior Members ONLY should have to go through a CAPTCHA verification on a agreement of the rules before being able to post anything. That way if these members do post in the wrong section it gives us more grounds to take the appropriate action. It may also cut down on the SPAM that the site receives.
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Oh I like that idea, say for people under 50 posts have to use a CAPTCHA and maybe on that CAPTCHA , a reminder to search before posting and to re-read their post before submitting ...
I am sure that most of the people here that do the things we are talking about, would be just as annoyed if someone bugged them the same way with their chosen hobby.
Another suggestion, if we were able to modify the forum this much, would be to have buttons underneath the first post saying: "Use forum search!" or "repeated question!" - if say, 10+ people click the button, then an automatic reply is generated saying: "Please use the forum search for answers" etc.
(These could appear for a new member's first 10 posts etc)
We also have to realize that in the HD2 Leo forums, the Q&A forum was just recently added. So you have to change people's habits of posting those questions, request, etc. in the Themes and Apps forum. Along with that you have a ton of posts already in the Themes and Apps forum that will need to be moved to the Q&A forum as replies bring them back to the top of the Themes and Apps forum.
Binary100100 said:
Yeah. I counted 13+ that you reported. That's insane! Thanks for the help but unforunately I cannot do it since it's not my fora. I like your ideas... that is all but the "must approve post" one. There
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Yeah, reported about as many tonight. Just think what would happen if you didn't have to wait 1min between reports. Not really. I go through my regular routine of reading the new post in the themes and apps forum as usual. The ones that don't belong in that forum (questions, request, etc.) I open in separate tabs and report as I can while reading through the rest of the new post.
The "must approve" suggestion I knew would be to burdensome on moderators. On just new threads it's a lot of added work. I don't think whatever route is taken you have to worry about individual replies, just entire threads that are off topic. If you could find a way to automate the moving of improper "new" threads that would cut moderators work in half right there. That's where the suggestion for adding a selection when clicking "New Thread" of the type of thread (and automatically moving those in the wrong forum) came from. Still, some users would get wise to it, not care and click the wrong selection (App instead of Question) just so they could get their thread started in the wrong section.
1. A FAQ listed on each section. I know we have Wiki, but its usually outdated and hard to navigate. There really is no need for gigantic lists, but simple things like how to root, use odin, use clockwork, install roms/themes, etc... can be put there along with a warning on asking questions which have already been posted on the FAQ.
2. More Mods! I think just one or two more mods can help the forums a lot and clean things up.
3. Warnings for people who post questions that have already been answered on the front page of a thread or faq followed by a temp ban if they continue.
I'm really tired of the cycle of
- Dumb question posted
- Followed by "read the damn thread or use the damn search button"
- Followed by "Hey you were a noob once and theres no harm in answering the question you ass along with lengthy answer on the question that will inevitable be asked 10 more times in the near future"
- Continue flame war that now has nothing to do with the thread anymore
You enable people by holding their hands. Don't be an enabler. If you managed to find out how to do all this crap on your own, they can too. At most you should point them to the right thread and let them read up on it on their own so they can further their own education.
4. Don't PM the Devs for requests. They have enough work on their hands and don't need to be flooded. Remember the rule of think before you speak? Try thinking before you PM.
Anyhoo, there was a bunch more, but I'm sure you guys/gals have other ideas.
riceknight said:
1. A FAQ listed on each section. I know we have Wiki, but its usually outdated and hard to navigate. There really is no need for gigantic lists, but simple things like how to root, use odin, use clockwork, install roms/themes, etc... can be put there along with a warning on asking questions which have already been posted on the FAQ.
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I don't understand why the "[How To] Return to Stock / Fix Bricked Epic" thread is not sticked.
If someone posts they bricked their phone and needs help you post the link to that thread and lock it.
I like the sentiment of this thread but fear it might be taken the wrong way. Whosdaman is really a wonderful guy and has been very helpful to me but it seems like he is very busy (and who can blame him for dealing with things outside of the interwebs?) so I support this I would also like to issue a blanket "Thank you for your hard work" to Whosdaman.
Seeing as this is a collection of developers I don't see why we don't customize the forum itself.
I don't see any reason we can't flag the development and Q/A threads for every phone. Then, if "is this a question" is set to yes, automatically put it in that phone's Q/A forum. On top of which we could add a "You are posting in the development forum, this is reserved for people developing for [insert phone]. Please check the box below to confirm that you are developing something you wish to share." anytime people posted in the development forum.
Obviously people can still screw it up, if nothing else on purpose, but we can expect people who have never been on the forums to know how the forums are laid out, usually by reading the rules, which never happens, to sort their own, or we can make it as self sorting as possible.
Sounds like whosedaman just needs some support. Perhaps another mod added to help out. We all have to keep in mind that these guys don't get paid for this and real life always trumps forums life. Just my thought on this.
Sent from my Epic while i should be working
I was wondering why there was so much confusion in this forum, as I really liked the forums I used for the month I had a Moment before the Epic dropped. Was there ever a forum on here for the moment??? I couldnt find one, so I checked sdx, which I remember lurking back then and found my answer. Why can't Xda have 'child forums', with descriptions of where and why to post things?? They have a 'market' forum section for ROMs, etc, which we here are using development exclusively. I understand why, but it seems its this way here because of limited tools for organizing, can this sites software not do that? It is completely logical and intuitive to post questions directly regarding development or roms in the development section if you are new... I would have expected a sub-forum for roms only, or at least some direction other than after the fact... usually unless its horribly out of order, whosdaman is pretty polite about it, and given the feelings regarding this device, things get silly in here. Anyways, yes, at least sticky all roms and things 'coolguy' or whatever dont warrant flaming, and then politely notify the new people that questions regarding development actually get booted over to general, where intuitively people would assume GENERAL questions like 'do you like gmail or the stock app better?'.
More mods? Better structure? Who has control over this? Are there any experienced volunteers that can help whosdaman out with his daunting task?
We need to expect more 'joined in Dec 2010' and later members as every idiot with a blog and engadget included seem to think this site and forum are the authority, even over Sprint and Samsung (if XDA says 2.2 is dropping, it must be true, head over there and complain about it). NOTHING against new members, just that there is little direction other than the 'rules' that most people think are just 'dont flame, no kiddie porn... etc...' Dont get all elitist because people couldnt figure out your simple, non-intuitive structure because its their first 5 mins here.
Love this forum, but its like people are baited into getting flamed by assuming this forum runs like most any other... I thought I saw the end of this when I refused to go to another BBC chat... guess not.
If you feel that you must deputize yourself, please, copy the link to the wiki, rules, etc and paste them in misplaced, repeat threads and leave it at that.
since this is a fluff post, BigJim, whats the 1488 stand for??? Just curious...
ungovernable1977 said:
since this is a fluff post, BigJim, whats the 1488 stand for??? Just curious...
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Pardon? I'm not sure I understand what you mean by 'a fluff post'. I sincerely hope Whosdaman reads this thread and takes into account that there are some of us who would genuinely like to help him make our forums a more manageable place to browse and share ideas/roms/themes/etc. I am in no way asking for myself to be made a mod but rather I believe there are people here who would make good mods and I hope that WDM sees that we support him and want to help him make our community more accessible!
I'm willing to be a mod here I have experience and would know and how to handle things here...
Admins or mods pm me
sent from my Epic 4G
riceknight said:
1. A FAQ listed on each section. I know we have Wiki, but its usually outdated and hard to navigate. There really is no need for gigantic lists, but simple things like how to root, use odin, use clockwork, install roms/themes, etc... can be put there along with a warning on asking questions which have already been posted on the FAQ.
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Did you do a search before posting this? There's already a thread on it, learn how to use the search.
Ok, that was my attempt at humor
ungovernable1977 said:
since this is a fluff post, BigJim, whats the 1488 stand for??? Just curious...
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I don't think this is fluff at all and whosdaman does deserve to be thanked for his, well, thankless work.
1488 is a race thing. They usually won't tell you what the ideology of it is in public. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourteen_Words
Although I don't agree with the sentiment of the belief structure, I support their right to peacefully observe their beliefs.
Yeah I know that meaning its generally a tattooed target, was just hoping it was just some retarded interweb speak. Sorry to hear. Almost forgot what it was though... not many Boneheads around here, not anymore.
BTW, I respect Lady Gaga's work, although I dont like it, therefore I see no reason to put it in my username.... its ok, you have a right to be a Nazi in this country...
Regrettably, I do read almost every thread in this forum, and forums I maintain...
<--------- Look here, I have 8 forums to maintain full time, but 6 are dead lol
Yeah I do have a life outside this for sure. Not only am I a senior in High School, I am on the Mock Trial team, the Robotics Team, a Sales Representative for Sprint, and a Writer for BriefMobile.com
So yeah I would say I'm busy, but I look over the entire forum as much as I can. Shep211 has been extremely busy in his personal life, that's why I started helping.
It is a thankless job, it's a volunteer job. All free, I don't get paid. The only thanks comes from the owner of the site when I say "if you fix this the site will be better."
Besides all that I can single handedly control this entire forum. I know it sometimes looks cluttered and in a mess, but then again...the Development section is spotless, which is truely the only thing that matters. The General section is meant to be a mess because it's where everyone posts their questions and complaints.
There are applications to become a moderator here on XDA, you have to meet certain requirements to be considered and then be approved. No one of this forum knows my experience as a moderator unless you used GameBattles.com for PS3.
If you want to help me out the most, please please please, use the "Report Post" feature. Every reported post goes straight to my inbox, and I see every single one. Normally RP's get extra attention as they obviously have bothered someone enough to have it reported. 90% of the RP's are either Ghost or Kenvan.
The search feature would do alot of people good, it's nice to tell people to do something, but Report the post/thread and I'll take care of it. You clutter up the forum and threads by posting in threads saying to post in General, just report it. That's all.
Sure, I wish everyone searched because there are at least 5 can't root threads. I would rather merge them all but it too much work to find them. Like I said, let the noobs make their mistake. The members report the post, don't tell them they were wrong. I'll move it, shoot them a PM, and then post in their thread telling them where they should have posted. Then hopefully they will learn.
Thanks again,
WDM
kenvan19 said:
Pardon? I'm not sure I understand what you mean by 'a fluff post'. I sincerely hope Whosdaman reads this thread and takes into account that there are some of us who would genuinely like to help him make our forums a more manageable place to browse and share ideas/roms/themes/etc. I am in no way asking for myself to be made a mod but rather I believe there are people here who would make good mods and I hope that WDM sees that we support him and want to help him make our community more accessible!
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Sorry, fluff may have been a wrong choice of words, I was implying that as this has been talked about before, and ignored by the powers that be, I saw it was going to end up an off topic post eventually, or at least until the elitist post Nazis (no offense bigjim) came in and said how we are cluttering their precious first page of posts, because as most have trouble with the AMAZING search function, a lot here have a lot of trouble with 'next page', you dont even have to pick which page, it takes you right to the next one!
Sorry, this is just getting really retarded around here, oh and BigJim,apologies, last comment on your beliefs, if off topic, but being an anarcho-punk, its hard not to at least ask if that is REALLY what you are talking about.
hehe *blush* I've tried to resort to reporting posts lately as opposed to trying to deal with problems on my own. Hope its not too much of a burden.
THANK YOU whosdaman! that is a very simple way to deal with the clutter issue... didnt even realise what the report button was till i looked around for it. I agree that not replying, positive or negative is good, if its easier for you to redirect them (you could probably easily make a form letter, just sub in 'froyo', 'GPS', or 'search' and the rest is pretty much the same!)
So what of the ability to make sub forums??? to be able to have a section under Dev that is for general DEV RELATED questions would be cool... most people assume that General is for stock, non rooted phone discussion, and Development is for anything to do with development. I think I remember one called 'all things root'?? Idunno, but you get the idea. So what is the plausability of this?? not possible with site software? Too much work??? Just curious, I have asked in similar threads and I think you were too busy with other stuff... I tend to avoid PM especially if it is something someone else may be able to answer, as we all know, mods are busy, especially in this forum. Thanks for all your hard work!
I certainly appreciate all the hard work Whosdaman has been doing with these forums, but unless he enjoys handling all this, wouldn't an extra mod or two be helpful?
My biggest thing is the FAQ post. Someone asks questions, you can point and say you should have read that first. Like I said before, the Wiki is great, but its a little cluttered and outdated as well as being hard to edit. Having one person willing to just moderate that one thread would be so helpful.
It bugs me when the whole community seems to be represented by the lazy people who just spam post. There are plenty of helpful, polite and very well informed that get lost among the clutter. In fact, they probably outnumber the newbies but don't feel the need to post nonsense. For every idiot that asks a dumb question, there are probably 10 that actually do research and figure it out for themselves.
kenvan19 said:
hehe *blush* I've tried to resort to reporting posts lately as opposed to trying to deal with problems on my own. Hope its not too much of a burden.
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Nope, I love you and ghost for reporting post. I always look forward to waking up and seeing 10 new PMs lol
ungovernable1977 said:
THANK YOU whosdaman! that is a very simple way to deal with the clutter issue... didnt even realise what the report button was till i looked around for it. I agree that not replying, positive or negative is good, if its easier for you to redirect them (you could probably easily make a form letter, just sub in 'froyo', 'GPS', or 'search' and the rest is pretty much the same!)
So what of the ability to make sub forums??? to be able to have a section under Dev that is for general DEV RELATED questions would be cool... most people assume that General is for stock, non rooted phone discussion, and Development is for anything to do with development. I think I remember one called 'all things root'?? Idunno, but you get the idea. So what is the plausability of this?? not possible with site software? Too much work??? Just curious, I have asked in similar threads and I think you were too busy with other stuff... I tend to avoid PM especially if it is something someone else may be able to answer, as we all know, mods are busy, especially in this forum. Thanks for all your hard work!
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I have no control over sub-forums. And right now it is only me working on the entire Epic forum. Like I said shep211 is gone atm.
svetius is in charge of the entire site, and I've talked to him about improvements that can be made. I wouldn't bother him too much or he'll just ignore ya. Most of the time the only things he is interested is fixing errors with the site itself. Right now I don't think we are in the area of reorganizing the entire site.
ok, so adding a subforum is not possible? Or is it a decision to make the structure uniform across the whole site? Just thinking, because this forum is like maximum security, different from the rest... or so it would seem...
I'm not so sure making more areas, and thus more chances to be wrong, is a good way to combat posting in the wrong area.
If you have a rom question, ask it in the rom thread. All that would happen if there were subforums for things in development, and discussion of things in development is we'd have 37 threads about how "I just discovered ___ doesn't work in [rom]" instead of 50 posts about it in the rom thread.
(Not to mention you'd then be blurring the line of when it is or isn't ok to post in the DEV forum, where as now, if the person bothers to read, there's a pretty clear cut "If you aren't about to post about the thing you just developed, GTFO" rule.)
I am a newbie to Android operating system. As many other newbies, I got a lot troubles and puzzles when using my android phone, recreating themes or modifying ROM, etc... Then I have to post a new thread on forum and waiting for an advice. Sometimes it takes a lot of time just for a easy bug fix.
Therefore, I wonder if some experienced android users can leave their gmail address so that newbies like me can add as buddies in g-talk in order to asking for advices in some cases.
Thanks.
Best advice I can give you is to start here reading the Noob bible, read read read, then once you are more familiar with the phone, I would join one of the developers personal website forums. The people in there can and will give you advice, you can look into EDT forum, TW etc. All these groups have a varying level of skilled people in each of their respective website forums. But, before launching over to one, you need to have some education, and understanding so you can ask useful questions.
Good luck............. android is a great platform
oka1 said:
Best advice I can give you is to start here reading the Noob bible, read read read
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+1
99% of the time, all the "easy bug fixes" that you're referring to have already been addressed and resolved. I have been at this a while and have yet to start a new thread because my questions have either already been asked/answered, or I just figure it out myself. Don't get me wrong, I have no problem with people asking legit questions, but members starting new threads about common questions is a little irritating and shows a lack of effort in my opinion.
My bad - accidental repost.
Yeap I see, thanks a lot. ^^
if you need help feel free to pm me, no offense but i dont like leaving my email address around especially with everything i use it for. I generally check my XDA pms atleast once a day, keep in mind that i don't have time to walk you through everything step by step which is where the noob guide comes in. However i will always be willing to point you towards resources that will either instruct you on what to do unless its an incredibly difficult topic in which case ill do my best to asist.
Cheers
make a thread, pm me, ask for my number w/e I'll help you out..
I'm one of the most active users in the vibrant section