This Article
http://lukehutch.wordpress.com/2009/01/25/get-multi-touch-support-on-your-t-mobile-g1-today/
outlines an approach to multi touch on the adroid
if it's possible to re-write the touch drivers it might be possible on the hd
it works along the lines that it can work out the size of the circle the multi touch (2 fingers)
defines... thus it's radius and hence the releative distance.
so maybe pinch could be implemented
Gary
Doubt it, the G1 has the same screen type as the iPhone, the touch HD doesnt. Personally i much prefer the gesture and double tap the HD uses because its a one handed operation, multi touch is 2 handed or requires the phone to be placed on a surface. Its VERY over rated.
The HD uses a resistive touch screen, which makes multi-touch impossible sadly - it does give the screen the advantage of being able to be used with a stylus however - which you can't do with the iPhone or G1.
There are some gestures, such as zooming which lends quite well to multi-touch support, but I don't really miss them. I'm on the same boat as rovex in that area - it's a nice idea, but over rated.
garyjmobey said:
This Article
http://lukehutch.wordpress.com/2009/01/25/get-multi-touch-support-on-your-t-mobile-g1-today/
outlines an approach to multi touch on the adroid
if it's possible to re-write the touch drivers it might be possible on the hd
it works along the lines that it can work out the size of the circle the multi touch (2 fingers)
defines... thus it's radius and hence the releative distance.
so maybe pinch could be implemented
Gary
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It is not true multitouch, it's a dirty hack. I think it could be possible to develop applications using hack of this sort, but is there any real use of it besides a demo that shows this hack?
dwaradzyn said:
It is not true multitouch, it's a dirty hack. I think it could be possible to develop applications using hack of this sort, but is there any real use of it besides a demo that shows this hack?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Provided that it is properly released in some sort of broader API package, it can be useful.
However I don't think that's going to happen, unless MS itself puts it in WM6.5 or even 7 (maybe as part of a "WM DirectX"?).
But imagine - WM applications that can run on both resistive and capacitive screens in a similar way.. Now that would be nice!
while the gigantic 4.3" helps in making everything finger (or even foot) friendly, its still a windows mobile device. and many of the apps require some precision are written to be used with a stylus. i cant imagine using "Pocket Artist" or copy and pasting text using my finger on a WM device.
You guys think that this will be a problem with this device.
it's not a problem on the iphone, why should it be a problem on a device with a bigger screen? I don't remember ever using the stylus on my HD...never needed it. I don't expect I'll need it on this device either
twisted-pixel said:
it's not a problem on the iphone, why should it be a problem on a device with a bigger screen?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Because iPhone applications are written on the assumption that they are being used on an iPhone without a stylus. Plenty of Windows Mobile apps are written on the assumption that you are using a stylus; this includes a number of utilities built into the operating system.
I used the Leo ROM on my Xperia X1 and can say as long as you stay inside windows (or said different inside the shipped software) you won't get any problems, its very finger friendly and I never went down to an old wm 6 skin. concerns are only there if you want to use some 3rd party software. there might be a problem with finger usage like said above or somewhere else as they don't have to be finger optimized.
Personally - I think it will be fine. Also with later revisions of WM6.5 and then hopefully WM7 I think the phone will get easier IF there are any issues. The issues will only occur when you come out of the HTC Sense layer anyway, which won't be that often.
I thought HTC patented the capacitive stylus?
Lack of stylus will not be a issue at all with that huge screen...I think. We see when its in our hands. Hope it will be very soon
I'm using a TyTN II and almost never dig out the stylus. Over time I moved to apps that were finger friendly. And with the current design trends, I'm guessing even more apps will become available that don't require a stylus.
-Bob-
12aon said:
I thought HTC patented the capacitive stylus?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
afaik yes but on no pics can you find where it is placed i think and then they will probably release it with a largish price tag like the car dock...
All of you who are using resistive screens with LEO ROM, your impressions are worthless (regarding how the LEO ROM will behave on the real HD2) because resistive screens are more accurate than capacitive screens, even if you use just your finger (not to mention you can still use fingernail with resistive).
HTC said that since the LEO has capacitive screen, it can not operate well without the new MANILA, and for that reason, they said that they didn't give an option to disable MANILA, and went even further to say that if some programer will try to disable it, they did everything they could in order for him to find it "very challenging".
Noam23 said:
All of you who are using resistive screens with LEO ROM, your impressions are worthless (regarding how the LEO ROM will behave on the real HD2) because resistive screens are more accurate than capacitive screens, even if you use just your finger (not to mention you can still use fingernail with resistive).
HTC said that since the LEO has capacitive screen, it can not operate well without the new MANILA, and for that reason, they said that they didn't give an option to disable MANILA, and went even further to say that if some programer will try to disable it, they did everything they could in order for him to find it "very challenging".
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What makes you say this? There have been plenty off leo roms out that seem to leave that function intact
Noam23 said:
All of you who are using resistive screens with LEO ROM, your impressions are worthless (regarding how the LEO ROM will behave on the real HD2) because resistive screens are more accurate than capacitive screens, even if you use just your finger (not to mention you can still use fingernail with resistive).
HTC said that since the LEO has capacitive screen, it can not operate well without the new MANILA, and for that reason, they said that they didn't give an option to disable MANILA, and went even further to say that if some programer will try to disable it, they did everything they could in order for him to find it "very challenging".
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't use my Touch Diamond's stylus, and the Touch Diamond has a much smaller screen so I think the huge screen of the HD2, coupled with the capacitive touch sensivity, should be fine.
And if that second bit is true, I'm surprised because that means they went to the trouble of making it easy to disable TouchFLO 3D and TouchFLO on older devices...
And if that second bit is true, I'm surprised because that means they went to the trouble of making it easy to disable TouchFLO 3D and TouchFLO on older devices...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
True, because the TouchFLO 3D and TouchFLO were sold on devices with *resistive* screens, these devices can handle Windows Mobile screens without any trouble. The HD2 on the other hand has the capacitive screen, and HTC knows that operating the WM UI with such device is going to be a problem, such a problem that no one even believe capacitive will reach WM before version 7.0, yet HTC came with the MANILA 2.5 solution, so I can very much understand them when they say they don't want you to defeat MANILA 2.5.
O2 are offering me this phone as an upgrade. I need a decent keyboard and am loathed to part with my TP2!
Does anyone have any experience of using any of the screen "keyboards" for emails etc? If so, can it really replace the hardware keyboard?
May be a silly question, I don`t know much about different screen types but cant you just use another stylus instead of your finger? I always have a pen/stylus in my pocket at work and never use the provided stylus with my HD
kjt57 said:
May be a silly question, I don`t know much about different screen types but cant you just use another stylus instead of your finger? I always have a pen/stylus in my pocket at work and never use the provided stylus with my HD
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You need a special kind of stylus for capacitive screens.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/NEW-CAPACITIV...ries_MobilePhoneBatteries?hash=item2ea897a251
Noam23 said:
All of you who are using resistive screens with LEO ROM, your impressions are worthless (regarding how the LEO ROM will behave on the real HD2) because resistive screens are more accurate than capacitive screens, even if you use just your finger (not to mention you can still use fingernail with resistive).
HTC said that since the LEO has capacitive screen, it can not operate well without the new MANILA, and for that reason, they said that they didn't give an option to disable MANILA, and went even further to say that if some programer will try to disable it, they did everything they could in order for him to find it "very challenging".
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Very interesting information Noam23. Being able to use a phone effectively with your finger most of the time when you have to use your finger all of the time is not acceptable to me.
I also have the same issue mentioned in your other post where I would want to turn off Manila/HTC-Sense. The fact that they've tried to prevent this proves how unusable WM6.5 is on a capacitive screen.
Oh well, that's just saved me a lot of money!
Can't help but think everyone is being a little binary here
The UI is the launch pad for the device ... It will be possible to disable TouchFlo3D. HTC were probably saying this to detract people from the ever present concerns with exposure to the native OS UI.
All the other apps you use on the device have their own UI. Once launched, it is almost (back to that in a moment) irrelevant what the OS UI is. The concern will be if those desktop class apps we love on WM in spite of WM itself are not easy to use on the HD2.
I don't see many apps I have that will be a problem ... infact, the only ones would be Resco Explorer, utilities like SKtools, data entry tools like Softmaker Office and PhatNotes (although I'll probably be ok with the on screen keyboard given the capacitive touch and size of display ... and for laptop 'replacement' use, I'll use the BT Stowaway keyboard and mouse) and drawing tools .... which some I'm sure want .... I personally (and therefore subjective) have never used them ... so it isn't an issue for me.
It is true to say that PI and Flexmail could do with more focus on touch ... and given the iPhone apps Alex was working on (I'm a little out of date) ... I'm sure that will come soon.
Also .. I'm not sure if it waning enthusiasm or a change of focus ... but having used PI extensively for years ... when using Mobile Shell 3 and things like PocketBreeze, I realised I rarely went to PI any more .... With FlexMail ... it is a superb product ... but it always had problems with storage ... and after the WM client supported HTML ... it was less needed ... with TF3D ... again ... makes it even easier ... so PI will remain for micro text month view and tasks ... FM will remain for when I need to do complex searches of mail (a real weakness of the native clients on all phones), but I will rarely touch them in normal daily use.
So ... although I resisted the 'hype' around capacitive ... and thought a stylus would always be needed .... in practice ... I'd like to get an HTC capacitive stylus if it ever makes it off the drawing board ... but I doubt I'll really need one.
I used to always want the keyboard ... but after having 4 TyTNs and 3 TyTNIIs respectively before I got one that didn't have some keyboard or mech / ribbon issue .... and the TP2 that had the loose mech issue ... I finally decided I wanted to simplify all mechanical bits ... so I'm looking forward to the HD2. I like others think the 5 buttons + the rocker will allow aebutton+ control where needed in older games.
And the benefit to the Capacitive screen for me will be a smoother more responsive touch (I'm not commenting of accuracy ... because no one that hasn't used it can really comment ... and they certainly can't comment on what it maybe like if and when the HTC Stylus comes out ... if it does) .... and it should also be less reflective ... and therefore clearer in different light conditions ... and it will have a harder surface ... which will (to me) feel better.
So in summary ... given TF3D or MS3.5 will cover most of the OS UI requirements ... as well as the front end to native apps which are touch optimised and most of the big apps I will use will be fine with their own UI ... I think the HD2 with it's display and external simplicity has hit the market at the right time and will in practise be more than fine for everyone happy with a device this size that doesn't need drawing apps on day one.
I also suspect that the internal 512M + a good fast 16 or 32 GB MicroSDHC will more than meet the requirements of the WM7 1 chassis .... and in a year or 18 months ... when I have itchy feet .... I will get a ROM from XDA .... that will rejuvinate the machine ... I can't say this for certain ... and no one at present can say it will or won't be a possibility ...
Mine is on order for Clove ... it is genuinely the first time I've been excited about a WM device since the TyTNII was announced ...
Moandal said:
Very interesting information Noam23. Being able to use a phone effectively with your finger most of the time when you have to use your finger all of the time is not acceptable to me.
I also have the same issue mentioned in your other post where I would want to turn off Manila/HTC-Sense. The fact that they've tried to prevent this proves how unusable WM6.5 is on a capacitive screen.
Oh well, that's just saved me a lot of money!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Maybe you should try it before drawing any conclusions?
Really interested in seeing how Opera performs on the HD2 and whether or not clicking links is difficult.
It's easy to tap small links on the iphone, why should it be difficult on the HD2? All this "it won't be possible to use because of the capacitive screen" debate is just FUD, IMO.
Hi,
in all the Reports about the HD2 they allways say "Multitouch" but i was not able to find out, how many touches at the same time the HD2 can recognize.
Is there anyone who has an answer for me?
greetz
virtually unlimited.
so is there an application around which uses more then two right now?
So far I've only seen dualtouch on HD2. But it might be capable of more than just dualtouch..
LOL
Physically the hardware may be unlimited but WM 6.5 can only support 1 touch!!!
HTC worked around this for the PZ in Sense, but there is no native support for multitouch at all.
WM7 Should do though so keep waiting and hoping..............
i see! thanks for that!
hopefully microsoft and htc will hear our prayers!
That is not entirely true. WM6 might not support multitouch officially. That does not mean HTC does not use it's own extensions. It does.
You must enable multitouch for each application in similar way as rotate (there is white list in registry). Then new events are sent to the window, which allows you to use more 'cursors' at the same time. Of course application must be made to support that. I've seen some demo (which only showed 2 cursors actually), and there was documentation too, unfortunately I can't remember where it was.
I've just downloaded the new Maps on my X10 mini, and am a bit frustrated that Google haven't given any option to change the map tilt on devices that don't support multi-touch.
This got me thinking:
Would it be possible to make an app that monitors certain hardware keys (e.g. the volume up/down keys) and then injects fake multi touch events into the OS? (or whatever app is frontmost?)
Anyone got any experience in doing anything similar?
I think you would need to,root your x10,flash it then install 2.1 on your device 2.1 allows multi touch. Search this forum
Sent from Rooted x10 .
Thanks, but that's not the problem - I've got a X10 mini running 2.1, but the manufacturer has disabled multi touch (even though the hardware supports it)
An update to enable MT is supposingly coming, but it'd be nice to have a way to hack around until it comes (if it ever does)
I'm asking this here since we are those lucky guys who probably tried all kind of builds/bases on Android (evo, desire, nexus1,desire HD,....) and Winmo builds! So logically we know the most about these 2 topics:
1- Does the multitouch experience change from base to base in android!?
What i mean is, have you ever tried to play a multitouch game on Evo base, Nexus1 base, desire base...??? Is it the same experience?! Are multitouch drivers the same in those android HTC devices?!? If not, which in your opinion has the best multitouch drivers?!?
2- Is there is some kind of emulator of Winmo in Android?!?
I mean there is some apps/games that are only available @ Winmo, is there is a special way (emulator or other if possible) to run those on an android device?!? If not, To devs and advanced users, do you think this can be done?!? What does it take to do it?!
Thanks guys!
1) I've tried Nexus, Evo & Desire and there wasn't any differences. There is a calibration tools in some builds with Sense but sensitivity was equal.
2) There is no emulator. In Linux world we have Wine witch can run Windows apps but there is nothing with Windows Mobile support.
crow6 said:
1) I've tried Nexus, Evo & Desire and there wasn't any differences. There is a calibration tools in some builds with Sense but sensitivity was equal.
2) There is no emulator. In Linux world we have Wine witch can run Windows apps but there is nothing with Windows Mobile support.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks 4 ur reply!
However i have read somewhere that Nexus 1 multitouch driver is a bit "faulty", if it's the right word!
IMO all these HTC devices have bad multitouch drivers! I sometimes have some struggling to play let's say Fifa2010 because i take off my left arm from "move pad" but the dot still at its place until i take off my right arm from the "A & B" buttons! So i realize that it's interfering one touch at 1 place with another touch on another place! Of course that doesn't happen all the time but it happens!
About 2), excuse my ignorance bcz i know nothing about Linux, but is it so difficult to make this "Wine witch" work on android devices to be compatible with Winmo?!?
1) I thing we have us own MT driver. Every screen & digitizer (or however its called) should have diff driver to work. But not 100% sure - it's possible we have screen & digitizer same as some other phone...
Multitouch in hd2 is locking when You have two finger in these same line (vert or horiz). To work You should move one of Your finger to leave common line (that "line" is quite fat!). I suggest try some MultiTouch Demo App from store - it's free and shows how its working in our devices.
2) Windows on PC and PPC are quite diffirent. I think its possible to make "Mobile" Wine but it's a _lot_ of work. And it's not 100% legal (Windows source isn't open). Moreover emulator will be a bit slow and laggy. And of course some apps will work, some not and some will hang Your phone
Hopefully cotulla will finish the sd bootable version of winmo soon... I know he's working on one that we can use with magldr to boot from sd. So with that we can have wp7 or android on nand and still be able to boot winmo when we want. Soon we will have quad-booting devices... WP7 on nand, and WinMo6.5, Android, and Ubuntu on SD... and maybe one day have a meego port that works well!