Database Users

Seamless Handoffs between GPRS and Wifi Possible?

Are there any networking applications that would allow seamless switches between Wifi and GPRS/Edge?
It would be nice to be able to have a GPRS connection on the way into work, perahps streaming internet radio and then to have the network connection detect the Wifi and then switch. I suppose you would have to preconfigure your device with a list of access points, but considering that most of us use our devices at work and home, that should be easy to setup.
Or am I asking for something technically difficult to do?

YEs, Yes you can, but it maybe more trouble than its worth..
Its possible, Im not sure how "seemless" the transistion is going to be. First, you need to turn your Wifi slider to Performance so wifi radio stays on and scans while the PDA is sleeping. Then you need to add the SSID's (and WEP keys if applicable) of all the access points you intend to switch between. Having done this, you're going to need a huge battery, because leaving wifi on on this mode usually only yields about 3 - 3.5 hours of battery life. In addition, your GPRS radio is running so your battery life will be consumed slighly faster. With this configuration I have my work private network access points (3 for the different departments). My home wifi AP, and a few hotspots that I frequent in the evenings. When wifi is on, I can walk between any of these locations and the pda will automatically connect me to the present network. The downside to this is that every time I pass another visisble hotspot, the Universal chimes and wakes up to alert me to the new connection options. I also recommend doing the 802.11G hack for more compatibility (no speed improvement). Hope this helps.

Really seamless handover between GPRS and WIFI is not really possible without some firmware/radio stack changes. As long as you can put up with a second or two of data interruption there might be an 'seamless enough' solution in software (i haven't found one though).
There are some new phones which can do this handover for the voice channel (so called 'UMA' phones) but even then I have only seen the handover work seamlessly one way (wifi-to-gsm) in practice.
I can't see MS adding UMA support for some time (Motorola and Nokia have some phones that do this already). It nay be that a 3rd party adds UMA support but it won't be great as it needs to be embedded in the OS for best usability.
Google "UMA mobile phones" for more info.

It is possible to have seamless handover between GPRS and WIFI without firmware/radio stack changes ! The technigue is Mobile IP. But the provider would support/provide it or you have your own Home Agent server ( like proxy server)
You have only one IP address and your connection session is never abrupt during WIFI <-> UMTS Handover.
The other problem is GPRS/UMTS connection-hooking on MS Windows CE !
best regards,

Network selection hierachy - Wifi vs GPRS (Kaiser)

When I'm in the house (and assuming I've got the wifi switched on on the Tytn 2), how do I get it to use the Wifi to access the Web as a first option?
Even when its connected to my wireless LAN (which it does with no problems at all - much better than my old Wizzard), if I launch Explorer it automatically makes a GPRS connection. The only way to force it to use the Wifi seems to be to turn the Phone off in the comm manager - which then means I can't receive any calls.
I can't find any setting that dicates the network hierachy i.e. that says if there is a Wireless LAN connection then don't bother with GPRS, or if there isn't, then use GPRS.
I seem to recall there was something similar on desktop Windoze where you could have it automatically use a dial up connection if there was no LAN available.
Can anyone help?

Iain.m said:
When I'm in the house (and assuming I've got the wifi switched on on the Tytn 2), how do I get it to use the Wifi to access the Web as a first option?
Even when its connected to my wireless LAN (which it does with no problems at all - much better than my old Wizzard), if I launch Explorer it automatically makes a GPRS connection. The only way to force it to use the Wifi seems to be to turn the Phone off in the comm manager - which then means I can't receive any calls.
I can't find any setting that dicates the network hierachy i.e. that says if there is a Wireless LAN connection then don't bother with GPRS, or if there isn't, then use GPRS.
I seem to recall there was something similar on desktop Windoze where you could have it automatically use a dial up connection if there was no LAN available.
Can anyone help?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm now getting the same thing using Emoze - the thing is sitting here connected to the Wifi & will sync mail & contacts etc over the wifi quite happily - but as soon as I try & send mail from the handheld it starts up not one but two GPRS connections (!) Much the same as if I try & get a web page up - it automatically goes to GPRS as its default route to the internet despite that fact that its already connected via wifi & the only way to stop this behaviour seems to be to switch the phone off in Comm Manager.
Seems to be something inherrantly odd about the way the Tytn 2 is deciding what network connection is available & which it should use. It looks like it needs a little control application to sit between the IP stack & the hardware so that when a request comes it can be routed according to user preference - i.e. Use WIfi if available, Only use GPRS etc The Wifi doesn't seem to fire up a connection when it feels like it - only the GPRS. Do all the HTC devices with WIfi behave this way?
In the meantime, does anyone know of a simple way to turn off/disable GPRS without disabling the phone?
WHile I have plenty of GPRS data allowance in my package when I'm in the house at my desk (or anywhere else I can get a wifi connection) I'd rather it just used the Wifi to sync itself or if I decided call up a web page.
Besides, it interferes with the hi-fi speakers in my study with that annoying buzzing noise everytime the GPRS gets busy.
I.

Hi guys,
I use 3 different wifi networks during the course of a day, well 2 a day, 3 through out the week probably. Home/Work/Friends house
I have a very small data package (5mb) so i am very choosy about when I use my data connection!
Anyways, did some testing.
I already know that if I have no wifi, no data connection on, then I try and start outlook or Internet Explorer, then my data connection starts up (as it should)
now if i have my data connection on, then i turn on wifi on the phone, the wifi connection takes over and the data connection is not being used, even though it's on.
I also have no problems with when wifi is on and data is off, and if i goto outlook or IE, that gprs decides to go on. this does not happen tome (unless for some strange reason wifi cuts out, gprs tries to take over)
So i dont know if its something with your settings or not, maybe your phone goes to sleep and wifi turns off then gprs takes over, or i could be misunderstanding your question, because now that I think about it, perhaps you are asking something like..
- at home no wifi or data connection is active at that moment
- you navigate to a page in IE and instead of gprs turning on, wifi turns on/scans for lan and uses that
Yeah, that's probably waht you are asking.. haha yahoo for long winded useless post
If you figure it out, i want to know! lol

Iain.m said:
I'm now getting the same thing using Emoze - the thing is sitting here connected to the Wifi & will sync mail & contacts etc over the wifi quite happily - but as soon as I try & send mail from the handheld it starts up not one but two GPRS connections (!) Much the same as if I try & get a web page up - it automatically goes to GPRS as its default route to the internet despite that fact that its already connected via wifi & the only way to stop this behaviour seems to be to switch the phone off in Comm Manager.
Seems to be something inherrantly odd about the way the Tytn 2 is deciding what network connection is available & which it should use. It looks like it needs a little control application to sit between the IP stack & the hardware so that when a request comes it can be routed according to user preference - i.e. Use WIfi if available, Only use GPRS etc The Wifi doesn't seem to fire up a connection when it feels like it - only the GPRS. Do all the HTC devices with WIfi behave this way?
In the meantime, does anyone know of a simple way to turn off/disable GPRS without disabling the phone?
WHile I have plenty of GPRS data allowance in my package when I'm in the house at my desk (or anywhere else I can get a wifi connection) I'd rather it just used the Wifi to sync itself or if I decided call up a web page.
Besides, it interferes with the hi-fi speakers in my study with that annoying buzzing noise everytime the GPRS gets busy.
I.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You should be able to use the comm manager to turn off the data connection, but as for keeping it off permanently, until you decide you want it to be even allowed to be active again maybe you can try this, it should disable your connection until you see fit.
http://www.modaco.com/content/Pocket-PC-Software/246171/New-FREE-Utility/

briggs81 said:
You should be able to use the comm manager to turn off the data connection, but as for keeping it off permanently, until you decide you want it to be even allowed to be active again maybe you can try this, it should disable your connection until you see fit.
http://www.modaco.com/content/Pocket-PC-Software/246171/New-FREE-Utility/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Great little utility , thanks very much for pointing that out - it at least allows me to do what I want manually - i.e. use my wifi without having to turn the phone off.
Although I know you can disconnect GPRS from the Comm manager, it also doesn't seem to have an idle time out so once an application (like Emoze) has started it up it keeps running in the background. Also, as soon as you turn it off, inevitably Emoze turns it straight back on! The NoData application gives much more control so thanks for that.
I do go abroad reasonably often so also happy to be able to use it for its primary purpose of disabling GPRS whilst roaming to avoid silly charges
It would be great if HTC could build a bit more intelligence and control into the network side of these things though.
I.

You may want to look into Schaps Advanced Config or KaiserTweak for wifi/gprs settings.
You can set timers and disconnects, etc, with those applications.

Iain.m said:
When I'm in the house (and assuming I've got the wifi switched on on the Tytn 2), how do I get it to use the Wifi to access the Web as a first option?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The Good News: I fixed this behavior on the phone w/o any 3rd-party utilities, etc.
The Bad News: I'm not 100% sure how. :-/ My apologies. Here is what I think did it:
Make sure your browser is closed and you have no open data connections.
1- Open the Wireless Manager and make sure "WLAN" is on and "Data Connection" is off.
2- Go to Start>Settings and choose the "Connections" tab along the bottom.
3- Open "Wireless LAN," choose your home wireless network, and make sure you're actively connected to it (should see a signal quality meter, device network settings, etc).
4- Close "Wireless LAN" and while "Settings" is still open and on the "Connections" tab, open "Wi-Fi." Your list of known Wi-Fi networks should be showing: make sure your home network says "connected."
5- Close everything back out to your "Today" screen.
When my Tilt is set this way -- and actively connected to my WLAN -- the Wireless Manager grays out "Data Connections" and doesn't even respond if I tap the icon. IE automatically uses my WLAN, although it won't connect to some of its pre-loaded favs b/c, I think, they're on WAP servers and the Wi-Fi/NAT router assigns/negotiates TCP/IP protocols for your phone.
I think now I accomplish all the above by simply opening the keyboard and pressing the FN/Wi-Fi key.
FYI -- In truth, I solved this problem by installing Opera Mobile and setting it as my default browser. Opera Mobile is a full browser, i.e. doesn't use WAP.
Hope this helps. If not, sorry for this 5 minutes of your life you'll never get back. :-/
gT

WinMo Network Management SUCKS!

Argh!
I've never really posted a rant, but here's one.
Symbian is streets ahead of WinMo when it comes to network management.
With Symbian if you open an app that wants to access the Internet you get a prompt asking what available connection you want to use. If for some reason while using that app you lose the connection, you get prompted again.
WinMo doesn't ask. It uses whatever network is available going from Wifi down.
This is a problem for some (Okay, not all. I'm sure people with unlimited data plans, and those who don't want to be prompted like this way). Symbian let you configure programs to automatically connect to a network. It gave you a choice. Again, WinMo doesn't.
My own example -
I'm with Telstra, in Australia. We don't get unlimited data. I have a 150MB Plan.
With my previous N95 I could start up Internet Radio, chose WiFi for my connection, and listen to it while I was in bed knowing that if I fall asleep, and the WiFi drops out, the program will stop. It won't switch over to HSDPA and cost me a fortune.
Now my Touch HD. It sleeps automatically after 30 minutes. I've just found out that when it does that, I lose WiFi.
Last night when I went to bed I started up Kinoma, and was listening to a shoutcast stream over WiFi. The phone went to sleep and with the wifi connection lost, the phone went to HSDPA.
12 Hours of streaming has put me 560MB over my 150MB limit. That's $270 extra I'm going to need to pay.
Oh well. Lesson learned.
I don't understand though how Windows Mobile can be so far ahead of Symbian in almost every area, yet lacking by a huge amount when it comes to Network Management.
FWIW - I've now set all programs that want to use the Internet to now use my "Work Connection" so they will only use WiFi but
a) What a useless workaround. If for some reason I do want to use HSDPA data I then have to go through the hassle of changing it back
and
b) How hard is it to have the option there to "Always Ask"
Seriously!?
Phew. I'm done.

you have my sympathy, my last smart phone was symbian UIQ. that had internet profiles and priorities etc. WinMo is sadly deficient in that area.
There are a few issues raised here.
First off wifi turning off when the phone (and you!) goes to sleep. I think there is a setting to prevent that, have a look at this thread:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=488623
also i have seen mentioned an app called no_data which prevents GPRS connections, might be usefull, though I have no experience of it.

I have to agree on this, but on a slightly different subject: the EVIL windows mobile connection manager.
It is completely useless, being in the middle way between iPhone style (connect with any network and don't bother the user), and Symbian style (bother the user and let him choose the network every time). That is, it requires the users to dig into tricky and labyrinthic settings and always fails to do the right thing.
Thx to connection manager, I cannot use the BT PAN connection I spent long nights trying to get it work on my Motorola Q9, when the phone is not in airplane mode, because the CM will unilaterally think the PAN is useless and use H$DPA (or GPR$) instead.

Good old fashion Telstra reeming plays a part as well.

OUCH on the $270!!!
[email protected]#$%^&*()_+|
I share you frastration until I found this No Data application which I install first in every flash, it just disables any Data connection!
If you need it let me know

Thanks for the sympathy.
My biggest problem with NoData is that I actually want to be able to use HSDPA when I am not near a WiFi network, I don't want data off permanently!
Why can't there be an app that lets you chose which connection everytime. That's what is annoying me most!

When you need it just switch it back on. Less than few clicks

Hi,
i have just posted regarding this issue on another thread.
I remember reading a review for the Touch HD and one reviewer mentioned a 'simple thord party app that allows one button switching from wifi to 3g(HSDPA)'. rather disappointingly the reviewer does not mention what this app is called!!!!!
actually the issue i have is slighlty different, if i set the network setting to use wifi , when i turn wifi off i have the phone simply will not connect to anything until is go back through.
START>SETTINGS>CONNECTIONS>CONNECTIONS>ADVANCED>SELECT NETWORKS> either MY Work Network or Orang Internet.
phew what a pain in the preverbials.
Microsoft - i really hope you sort this in winMo 6.5
Anybody else - how about a simple app, if i switch wifi on and a network is found, set the above to my work network.
if not found then either set it to Orange Internet (or whoeever) (for those of us with unlimited data) or as the thread leader suggests just bloody ask whether it is ok to go back to 3G/HSDPA.
but can we please stop the:
START>SETTINGS>CONNECTIONS>CONNECTIONS>ADVANCED>SELECT NETWORKS>MY Work Network
or
START>SETTINGS>CONNECTIONS>CONNECTIONS>ADVANCED>SELECT NETWORKS>"carrier internet connection"
7 clicks of frustration that i struggle to do without a stylus

I've since installed and been using NoData. While not a perfect solution, it does make it easier to turn my data connections on and off without going through the settings menus.
It will do until Microsoft decides to catch up with the rest of the field with regards to network management.

Data vs. Wi-Fi in WinMo 6.5

OK, I am using the latest Miri cooked rom and I run 6.5.
The purpose of this thread is for me to better understand how the Touch HD work as far as data access is concerned.
Now I come from a 1st gen iphone and things there are pretty straight forward: the phone automatically connect to wi-fi in priority and will only use data channels if no wi-fi is detected or no wi-fi can be accessed. If you have pre-selected networks it will automatically connect to these. Incidently, if you see a wi-fi connection signal in the taskbar, it means its accessing data through wi-fi.
I am still confused as to how it works with the HD (and by that I mean winmo of course). If I look at the taskbar, it seems that the phone always favours the non wi-fi options. Only when I disable data access and push email does the wi-fi signal sign appear... Another issue I have is that there is no way to know, within critical applications (email, web...) which data access option is used... Obvioulsy, I'd like the phone to access wi-fi in priority since it's cost effective and faster.
Anyone here capable of letting me know what the systems is on the touch? Do I have to disconnect data to have wi-fi used? Is there some software to could force the phone to access wi-fi in priority?

[HTC TOUCH 3G] confused with wifi+3g+data access

Hi, first post.
I am also a first with windows mobile, i recently picked up a touch 3g.
i am rather confused with the internet and data access.
i have added all the wifi internet zones i visit.. home, work and friends... it says i can connect but when i try to browse it doesnt work.
basically i want to be able to connect to and use my WIFI zones when i'm in range, and when i'm not i want it to use 3G if i connect to an app or browser that requires it, then when i leave the application i also want it to stop using data so i wont get charged from my provider?
is there any easy way of doing this, i'm havin a hard time setting it up.. i would like WIFI to take priority.

These could have been my words too ...
I'm searching for this since a long time and even more since I saw how smooth and unobtrusive switching between wifi (when available) and 3G (when wifi is not availabe) is on the iphone (oh, he said the word!). Until now I didn't find any solution but as I would be happy if there was one, I just add myself as possible happy customer to this thread
The only kind of workaround I found was keeping your wifi always enabled (though not in standby) to have a preference for wifi because its most of the time already connected when you need internet access. If no access point is found then and only then 3G is used. It doesn't drain you battery as much as one would think. But what got me away from this was the fact that there is a slight or not so slight lag at least in connection with S2U2 when turning on the display. That annoyed me so much that I always turn on wifi manually whenever I know there's an access point and I need internet access.
Sorry I couldn't tell you anything better ...

Search............
Try searching the threads. There are settings that can be accessed through the advanced config tool that allows you to change these settings.