Database Users

Reception (non-)Issue (like in iPhone 4)

"Admittedly, this isn't a problem that exists only for the iPhone 4 -- we've seen reports of the same behavior on previous generations (the 3G and 3GS), and there is a running thread about this problem with the Nexus One."
taken from http://www.engadget.com/2010/06/24/apple-responds-over-iphone-4-reception-issues-youre-holding-th/
So i decided to do a pathetic test on my Hero. I remebered from a YouTube vid on the Legend that the antenna was in the "chin" area.
Hero on desk: 4 bars of reception (full)
Wrapped hands around chin of Hero: 1 or 2 bar(s) of reception
Since noone has mentioned it b4, its probably a non-issue, but i do get quite a few dropped calls.
Just wondering if my dropped calls are connected to this? Or maybe T-Mo is just crap in my area.

Indeed the reception does drop considerably when holding the chin! .... I wish you hadn't told me now!!!
I'll have to see how it affects calls tomorrow. I'll report back.

my bars dont change =S

You have to really cover the chin with your hand. Just touching the chin with the lower side of the hand is not enough. Also you have to wait about 10 seconds.
Thething is though, that you have to want to do this on the Hero. On the iphone 4 it happens when you are simply touching the gap with naked skin... especially when damp. This just seems to me like bad engineering. And the stuff about the Legend or the iphone 2g having bad reception is just silly... also in the engadget article. That is a fact of physics which you have to deal with when you want a phone built like a tank. It a completely different story when saying this happened on a phone which has this design flaw on a component meant to strengthen the signal reception. This is just bad engineering.
Sent from my HTC Hero

Every phone will lose signal if you cover the area where the antenna is. I have never noticed any dropped calls etc on Orange UK and the signal is pretty crap around here

OMG! HD2 has same grip reception flaw as iPhone 4

If you hold the phone in your left hand - just like the iPhone 4's "wrong" grip (your skin presses against the lower left side of the phone) watch reception bars go down 1 or 2 bars. The longer you leave your hand there, the more the bars go down. Release and they are up again. Tried it with and without a case. Same issue.

Just because it happens to HD2 does not necessarily become a problem.
I could also reproduce that on my iPhone 3GS and 3G in some location but not in all locations. I didn't even realise this until people start complaining about iPhone 4. To reduce the signal, i have to grip it (without using a case) very tightly without lettting go for a long time. If I periodically relax my hand as I would in normal usage, then signal won't go down. As this is not the way I normally grip, and the fact that I've been using my phones for so long without even knowing there is a "problem" probably means that I have nothing to worry about.
Then, I searched the youtube and found out that it is also happening to Nokia phones:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gi1gHDa7-X0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQ7t75Uo6qQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amPG52DVQuk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Zsuxbd0L0g
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MyLrFY3mI0M
Nokia is trying to fool everyone by saying that users can hold their phones in anyway they want, but this is simply not true. See this:
http://www.appleinsider.com/article...at_iphone_4_death_grip_gets_called_on_it.html
Haven't got an iPhone 4 yet, but my impression is that this issue is more pronounced with it. IMO, although it can be easily fixed by using a case, applying a sticky tape or nail polish over the lower left half of the antenna, Apple would definitely need to address this issue so that out of the box the extent of signal strengh reduction is minimized.

I didn't say it was a problem. I was just shocked to find it out after all this time I had it and never knew. Hence the OMG!

I think the phenomena is likely to exist with every phone, in certain locations, with certain hand type, but owners of the phone may not notice it unless they deliberately test it out. I could only produce that phenomena is one part of my house but not in another. Just like half the iPhone 4 owners were not able to reproduce this problem while about half were able to. My guess is that it has nothing to do with manufacturing defects, but simply a case of the location, orientation, and body type.

There have been discussions about that at the beginning on the HD2. The antenna is in the bottom part of the phone, between the bottom and the start of the metal cover, i.e. where your hand is (as stated in the manual).
The end word is that pretty much every phone on the market will have its reception drop a bit when you hold it.

FCC only allows the antenna to be located at the bottom of the phone, away from the user's brain. Also, the level of signal strengh must not exceed what's allowed. So, even if the manufacturer want to relocate the antenna to the top part of the phone so that user's hand could not touch it so easily, it would not be approved. Simiilary, even if the manufacturer could increase the signal strength, it would not be approved.

eaglesteve said:
Haven't got an iPhone 4 yet, but my impression is that this issue is more pronounced with it. IMO, although it can be easily fixed by using a case, applying a sticky tape or nail polish over the lower left half of the antenna, Apple would definitely need to address this issue so that out of the box the extent of signal strengh reduction is minimized.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I heard that the fastest and cheapest way to solve teh Iphone 4 reception problem was to put a condom over it. They are cheaper than the bumper and are available in a varitey of colors and textures. The added plus is that you always have a condom handy should you need one

Classic Apple!
Let HTC and Nokia work tirelessly for years upon years only to one-up them with a bigger shinier version of a feature EVERY smartphone has had since 2003.
Sheesh.

wineds said:
I heard that the fastest and cheapest way to solve teh Iphone 4 reception problem was to put a condom over it. They are cheaper than the bumper and are available in a varitey of colors and textures. The added plus is that you always have a condom handy should you need one
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your recommendation would suit youself my friend. I'll use a nice looking case.

Basically every phone has way to hold it which will lower signal strength. With most smartphones it is rather easy. Most phones also have picture in manual how to hold it correctly. It's nothing new.

The HD2 issue your mentioning is a normal reaction to covering an antenna. This SHOULD happen in all phones since you are partially blocking the antena.
The iPhone 4 issue is not similar, if you go through this post:
http://gizmodo.com/5571171/iphone-4-loses-reception-when-you-hold-it-by-the-antenna-band
you'll see that the signal loss is due to connecting the left side of the antenna with the bottom by touching the left side and the bottom (left) portion of the phone. If you put a "Bumper", apple's term for cover, and then hold the iphone in exactly the same way, you will not lose the signal.

omar302 said:
If you put a "Bumper", apple's term for cover, and then hold the iphone in exactly the same way, you will not lose the signal.
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The thing is I have a black rubberised case around my HD2 and even WITH the case the bars still drop.

tboy2000 said:
The thing is I have a black rubberised case around my HD2 and even WITH the case the bars still drop.
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Click to collapse
as long as you are not brothered, it cannot be called a problem.

tboy2000 said:
The thing is I have a black rubberised case around my HD2 and even WITH the case the bars still drop.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, thats because the singal has to go through your hand, so it might lose a bar or two.
All phones get this.
The Iphones problem is not the same thing, it just hast he same result.

if i leave any phone I've ever had in pretty much any spot in my house the signal flutuates.
sod all to do with holding it.

just use a BT headset

anyone cares for some duct tape?
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/apples-latest-conundrum-duct-tape-2010-07-12?dist=countdown

lol... Snapperheads...
If you watch the iphone vid on youtube showing the 'making of' the phone you'll notice the alloy frame is the antenna... Covering it will help not to drop the reception... But having to have a cover to not lose reception is a joke...
As for the HD2, all phones held in a hand will have variance in reception... I tried the left hand thing on mine and it didn't drop a bar...

i have no problem with mine........may be the signal/reception from my carrier is really great unlike that in US.....

LOL good thing i'm not left handed

Same Reception Problem as iPhone 4??? link w/ vid

/watch?v=LROTHrTR92k&feature=player_embedded#at=22
sorry I can't post links quite yet, add this onto the end of youtube.
It better not be like this when I pick it up Sunday.........

wow. i really have to wonder what he did to make it look like that.
When losing reception, phones don't go 100%-0% in a split second.
I bet he's just going for ratings after the whole iPhone mess.
Also, i can assure you that it doesn't matter how you hold it, even if you bury it in your hands from all sides, there's no catastrophic signal loss.

Mine has that problem. Full signal. Hold on the phone down the bottom and it drops down to 1 or 2 bars. As soon as you let go of the bottom, back up to full bars.

Signal loss when covering the antenna area is not a "problem", it's the laws of physics at work.
1 bar is totally reasonable, and depending on signal quality, 2 as well.
But going 100%-0%... that's pure BS.

I think this appears only when in 3G mode.

The VDO might not be telling the whole truth. From a user point of view, I have never seen signal dropped drastically like that.

Evans_Prophet said:
I think this appears only when in 3G mode.
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Click to collapse
I think it would still appear in GSM -mode, but the signal drop is nowhere near the amount when using UMTS.

Mine does it as well, in 2G and 3G, drops from -111dBm to 0dBm

My blackberry bold 9700 lose some signal when i cover the bottom. Every phone lose some signals when cover the bottom.

i can confrim this also happens with my Samsung Galaxy s aswell, and to those who say this is normal and happens to every phone, then you are wrong, i have a bunch of old nokias and NONE of them lose signal no matter where you hold it. the phones i tried it on are, the e71, 5800, the 6220 classic and the 6630. none of these phones loses any signal when gripped from anywhere. im so disappointed in this phone now

coldlazymo said:
i have a bunch of old nokias and NONE of them lose signal no matter where you hold it.
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Click to collapse
Yes they do. It's physically impossible to make an antenna that doesn't lose signal when covered. You can code the bars to show the signalstrength any way you like though. If I code the bars to show 4 bars 1-20% and a fifth at 20%-100% you'll very rarely see less than "full" signal.

Nokia is always been the best when it comes to reception quality. Am happy with my GS signal quality.

mickeko said:
Yes they do. It's physically impossible to make an antenna that doesn't lose signal when covered. You can code the bars to show the signalstrength any way you like though. If I code the bars to show 4 bars 1-20% and a fifth at 20%-100% you'll very rarely see less than "full" signal.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i tested those phones, i covered them up entirely with my hands, and there was no signal loss. it stayed at 5 bars. and its not a matter of coding since even with one bar i get good call quality.
but as Hassan said, nokia have always been very good with reception quality. and maybe i am overreacting since this is the first time i have come across this, having had all nokias before and this is my first samsung/android phone. but that doesnt really mean its acceptable, i cant get a decent signal when i hold my phone, at first i thought it was the network, since this was a different network than i was with before, but now that i have tested it and this happens, i cant help but feel like i have been screwed over a bit. going from 3-4 bars when not holding the phone to it dropping to 0 is not something i like in a phone

btw, it's best to know the difference between "no bars" and "no reception".
In contrast to most phones on the market, no bars at all means you have minimal reception.
It is still possible to make calls like this.
When there's absolutely no reception, you'll see a circle with a crossout line.

coldlazymo said:
i tested those phones, i covered them up entirely with my hands, and there was no signal loss. it stayed at 5 bars. and its not a matter of coding since even with one bar i get good call quality.
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Click to collapse
Ok, now read this carefully: Just because the bars don't go down doesn't mean you don't have any signal loss. You get signal loss on ALL phones when covering the antenna. You having 5 bars doesn't change that, it only tells us that the signal loss isn't severe enough to show on the display. That IS a matter of coding.
Obviously there's ALSO a quality difference. Depending on what transmitter/receiver is being used, the quality, location and size of the antenna and whatever will affect the quality of the signal. Some hardware have less signal loss than other when being covered, but fact is the signal loss is ALWAYS there regardless of the number of bars Nokia, Samsung, Apple or Anheuser-Busch brewery decide to show for whatever signal strength.

You can kill your data connection by covering the antenna on the GS...
Try with the speedtest app. Especially upload _WILL_ be killed proper, when the antenna is covered.
I put some standard kitchen aluminium foil between the phone and the backcover, It still drops bars, but uploading works a lot better.

its fine, i take it back now anyway, turns out i was right the first time, it is just the network. i lose bars even when the phone is sitting on a desk. and when i say lose bars, i mean the bars will actually fluctuate randomly, from having full bars to no bars, then back again, when the phone is in a stationary position on a table, near a window. it just happened to be coincidence that when i was testing it the timing was close enough for me to blame it on this. my apologies

Why is it most of the reception issues are in the US? I don't hear anything for Iphone 4 users in Japan and I'm using Galaxy S in Singapore, no drop calls, no drop signals blah blah. I think it is the network not the phone!

Oh noes, the world has come to an end, flee for your lives.....
If you are seriously disappointed that a phone made by imperfect people is not "perfect", then plz just return it and don't come back to this forum.
Unless you are getting dropped/crappy calls all the time, then wtf are you people complaining about? This forum is full of whiners.

Not as much whiners as hysterical people.
I can understand it a bit, since this isn't exactly a cheap phone, and is supposed to be one of the best (if not THE best) devices around.
The thing is that every time a POSSIBLE issue pops up, everyone start going crazy like "OH MY GOD IT'S 100% A PROBLEM THE PHONE IS NOT OK GET ME A DOCTOR"
Instead of, let's say, inspecting the matter rationally, and seeing if there's really a problem.
The Galaxy S has an almost full plastic body. There's no way it could share the iPhone's antenna problem, since the antenna is not exposed to our hands.
That video looks like an attempt to pull attention, for whatever reason. The only way i manage to replicate his results is by putting tinfoil on the back of my hand (which kind of leads me to think- we don't see the back of his hand even once in the video, nor there is sound, so possible raffling cannot be heared)
And even then, the results are not as drastic.
Everyone should calm a bit down and enjoy the device instead of inspecting it under a microscope for problems.
If a problem that affects your use somehow (e.g GPS, lags) appears, THEN do the complaining.

iPhone 4's "death grip" on Vibrant?

http://www.informationweek.com/news...html?articleID=225900042&cid=RSSfeed_IWK_News
Anyone see this happen to there phone?

Holy crap it's true, but you have to hold it in such an awkward way that I doubt I will be able to reproduce it in real life use.
I guess The Jobs wasn't lying about other phones having the issue.

I heard about this Via T-MoNews... I have tried to emulate it and I will say this:
It is true. When I held the phone "Death Grip" Style.. I lost 'bars'. But 'bars' mesning the physical representation of bars on the screen. I did not lose and data speed, and i did not check to see if voice was affected, but i have been talking on the phone all day with no problem. I also tried this in my basement where i have poor 3g reception.
I think that this is an issue on the grounds of the physical representation of 'bars' on the phone may not be calibrated properly, but if anything, a fix would make the phone appear to have MORE service, and not less, like the iPhone.

Yep, tested a few times. It's true, but it's entirely a different issue from the iPhone4's troubles.
Basically the full antenna hump has to by lying flush against the palm of your hand and it has to be held down against the palm with quite a bit of force, basically an airtight seal. I don't ever see me holding the phone in this fashion, for any reason other than to test this.

I don't think anyone ever denied that every phone in existence has some signal drop when held in a particular way. My Vibrant goes from 4 bars to 3 when held deliberately attempting to cover the entire antenna bump, but I am inside an office building that causes AT&T to go from 1-2 bars to zero when not holding the phone at all.
I attempted the two handed airtight seal method and couldn't get more than 1 bar to drop.

I can see it now "Every phone is going to get this death grip test." Is death grip considered has holding it normally or covering everything? As far as I know, iPhone had a problem when you normally hold your phone with your left hand. I went outside and did the same thing since I don't get a strong reception in my house and it was fine. Now, if I hold the bottom of the phone, then bars drop, but that should be expected.
Another thing to mention here. In that link posted by the OP, the editor had no trouble with calls and etc on the iPhone 4 while the Apple's co-founder had a different experience according to an article posted by Techcrunch.

Yes, this is for all cellphones...for a tp2 if I hold it by pinching the top right corner....I loose 3 bars...but it is not realistic to hold it that way..
On the iphone they had the antenna swirled around the phone...thus it end up in the bottom left corner which you normally would hold...
That article is trying to cover for the iphone's design flaw in general..on the Vibrant and captivate you wouldn't generally hold the phone that way for it to matter...

Drop in bars, but no dropped calls. That is a massive distinction that the source article fails to mention. Vibrant FTW

gTen said:
That article is trying to cover for the iphone's design flaw in general..on the Vibrant and captivate you wouldn't generally hold the phone that way for it to matter...
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Click to collapse
That's the key issue - it's a non-issue for most phones during "normal use". You have to actually try to cover the exact area, which is not a normal holding position most of the time. That's not the case for the 4G, I've seen it happen when holding the phone as I normally would with my left hand.
I'm not trying to bash the iPhone because I do like the design overall, but the article seems to leave out some key distinctions that make the iPhone issue different.

That article is so incredibly poor. ^ hit on it exactly. These are NOT the same issues.
Let the thread die.. i do not like seeing iGadget comparisons on XDA.
Ha, do it for me guys!

Poser said:
Drop in bars, but no dropped calls. That is a massive distinction that the source article fails to mention. Vibrant FTW
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Click to collapse
I ran a speed test with and without the deathgrip on my vibrant (a 4 bar difference) and noticed no notable speed changes.

Holding the phone normally, with my palm about 1/4" away from the bump/antennae on the back of the phone, I definitely lose signal, 3 bars to 0 bars. I also definitely lose download and upload speeds(according to speedtest.net app).
Also, when I go to Menu>Status>About Phone and check the signal there, it goes from about -85dBm 8asu to 0dBm 0asu.
Why would any cell phone maker put the antenna at the bottom where it could easily be covered by the hand? Doesnt it make more sense to put the antenna at the top?

I believe it is illegal to put the antenna in the upper part of the phone
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App

jsgrindin said:
I believe it is illegal to put the antenna in the upper part of the phone
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't know if it's "illegal" as in punishable by jail time, but I believe FCC regulations enforced on cell phone manufacturers mandate antennas to be on the bottom of the phone to increase distance to that grey spongy thing between your ears.
Has to do with exposure to radiation from the antenna.

What if you're holding the phone in landscape with your fingers going over the back of the hump? Does that affect data, speakerphone calls, or GPS signals?

I can reproduce signal loss cupping it in my hand but no call or data change. The iphone issue actually detunes the antenna.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App

People. These are completely separate issues. Please quit trying to make our phone like the iPhonie, good or bad. jeebus.

after i put on the gel case from t-mobile i can no longer replicate the "death grip"

s15274n said:
People. These are completely separate issues. Please quit trying to make our phone like the iPhonie, good or bad. jeebus.
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Click to collapse
Agreed.
Troll mode [ON] OFF
$10 says a sledgehammer will also cause you to lose signal.
Troll mode ON [OFF]
Sorry.

[email protected] death grip

Samsung Galaxy S - Death Grip

There are some videos floating on youtube showing Samsung Galaxy S Vibrant and Captivate having " death grip " , same as suffered by iphone 4.
you can check the videos on youtube
Samsung Galaxy S Vibrant and Captivate has internal antenna apparently located on the back of the phone, towards the very bottom edge. Can any1 here confirm me if Galaxy S is suffering from same issue
Any1 here facing this issue or its just a Apple fanboy gone crazy.

hi
i have used my phone a lot.. and i have never ever experienced this!
-TB-

No matter how many different ways I try holding my phone, I can't get the signal to drop.

it is yet another attempt from jealous iphone4 owner trying to make the SGS i9000 / HTD Desire / Moto Droid X looks bad
LOL

I've seen the videos, but I'm unable to replicate the behaviour..

Tried covering it completely with both hands in various ways, i can never get it to drop more than a single bar.

I did notice this the first day I received the phone: signal level drop from 4 to 1 or even zero bars when touching the entire bottom of the phone....doesn´t happen all the time, sometimes the indicated signal level stays the same....couldn´t figure out a pattern yet.
However, I have not once experienced a dropped call.....worst thing that ever happens is that the signal switches from 3G to GPRS - but then I have 4 bars again....
Can live with that....

I can easily replicate it with both my SGS phones when placing my palm over the back of the phone. This is in 3G mode and I haven't had any dropped calls yet so I'm not sure if it's an issue.

the only place i can replicate this "problem" is when i'm inside a subway station or inside a shopping center with too much metal beams.... say places like walmart and homedepot
by the way we do get cell signal inside subway stations, just weak.
so for reference a normal sony or moto handset non smartphone will be able to make a call perfectly fine, but when i was using the Treos I was never able to get a good signal
however when i upgraded to the HTC Athena i was able to make calls inside the subway station, now with the SGS no problem at all

Yes, I'm able to replicate the signal drop just like what they show for iPhone 4 in poor reception area only. I can also make the call drop out all together if the signal is already bad enough to begin with.
Note that in strong reception area it is also not possible to replicate the signal drop on iPhone 4, as shown by many YouTube videos, even if you do a death grip.
It's law of physics.
This issue does not bother me because I'll always use a case for my SGS.

All smartphones have this problem, didn't you guys listen to Steve Jobs?

lolz
yesterdays event was another publicity stunt by steve jobs

Hey now don't confuse this with the iphone 4 issue The difference here is the sgs doesn't do this by just bridging 2 pieces of metal, i.e. placing a single finger on the phone. You need to block the whole signal by covering it. I really doubt a case would have any effect on this as well. We are talking laws of physics vs a simple design flaw.

Cant really replicate it, but it can be a just signal representation bag.
I notice that sometimes I have like one bar, but if I go into setting and look at signal strenghts it can be exceptionally strong at the same time.

This just in..
Well... I put mine in a ledshielded box, padded it with sealhide (cause in Norway we have that laying around..) and swallowed it whole!
Bluetooth -> Working fine!
Camera -> Working Fine! (impressive really!)
Reception -> Working fine!
Todo:
* Testing swype whilst death-gripping the bugger!

eaglesteve said:
It's law of physics.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
and some basic common sense
of course it seems like that is only applicable to people who are intellectual enough to understand physic of radio waves and its interaction with the environment.

I think there has been an explosive growth in the level of public awareness concerning the effect of environment and human hand on cell phones after the iPhone 4 issue. I didn't realize my old phones had the same problem until I started testing it both good and bad reception areas. Then I searched in net and found examples after examples of videos demontrating th problem on other phones posted ages ago.

..hmmmm.. interesting.. I tried my best to replicate the issue..
..and yeah.. i can make it lose signal strength.. down to no bars..
..here is where the problem arises.. i can still make a phone call to my GF..
..nope, i didn't use just my left hand to cover the back side of the phone..
..i used my entire 2 finger and palm.. so the answer is, it doesn't have the iphone 4 flaw.
..lefty? righty? no problem, you can hold the SGS both ways and will never drop your call.
..hope this clears out all those who is trying to make a bad press out of the SGS..

Indoors, with my back to the window and my body kinda shielding the phone, I can make it drop from -81 to -97 dbm, by covering the entire bottom back of the phone. I can make it drop down further to -105 dbm by also covering the bottom front. However, both those ways of holding the phone are unnatural and if I turn around and face the window(phone infront, still held between my two hands) it shoots back up to -81 dbm.
So, is there a problem? Not as far as I can tell. As long as I hold it normally it's unaffected.
Regards

dakine; said:
Hey now don't confuse this with the iphone 4 issue The difference here is the sgs doesn't do this by just bridging 2 pieces of metal, i.e. placing a single finger on the phone. You need to block the whole signal by covering it. I really doubt a case would have any effect on this as well. We are talking laws of physics vs a simple design flaw.
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Click to collapse
Actually I think SGS's problem is even more serious than iPhone 4.
I can reduce the SGS signal by 30 dBm consistently at home by merely placing it on my palm without even griping it. With iphone4, I think Anandtech's test reduce it by only 24dBm by death grip or bridging the metal. I have got a crude video showing this if you want to see it, but you should be able to replicate it yourself.