There are some videos floating on youtube showing Samsung Galaxy S Vibrant and Captivate having " death grip " , same as suffered by iphone 4.
you can check the videos on youtube
Samsung Galaxy S Vibrant and Captivate has internal antenna apparently located on the back of the phone, towards the very bottom edge. Can any1 here confirm me if Galaxy S is suffering from same issue
Any1 here facing this issue or its just a Apple fanboy gone crazy.
hi
i have used my phone a lot.. and i have never ever experienced this!
-TB-
No matter how many different ways I try holding my phone, I can't get the signal to drop.
it is yet another attempt from jealous iphone4 owner trying to make the SGS i9000 / HTD Desire / Moto Droid X looks bad
LOL
I've seen the videos, but I'm unable to replicate the behaviour..
Tried covering it completely with both hands in various ways, i can never get it to drop more than a single bar.
I did notice this the first day I received the phone: signal level drop from 4 to 1 or even zero bars when touching the entire bottom of the phone....doesn´t happen all the time, sometimes the indicated signal level stays the same....couldn´t figure out a pattern yet.
However, I have not once experienced a dropped call.....worst thing that ever happens is that the signal switches from 3G to GPRS - but then I have 4 bars again....
Can live with that....
I can easily replicate it with both my SGS phones when placing my palm over the back of the phone. This is in 3G mode and I haven't had any dropped calls yet so I'm not sure if it's an issue.
the only place i can replicate this "problem" is when i'm inside a subway station or inside a shopping center with too much metal beams.... say places like walmart and homedepot
by the way we do get cell signal inside subway stations, just weak.
so for reference a normal sony or moto handset non smartphone will be able to make a call perfectly fine, but when i was using the Treos I was never able to get a good signal
however when i upgraded to the HTC Athena i was able to make calls inside the subway station, now with the SGS no problem at all
Yes, I'm able to replicate the signal drop just like what they show for iPhone 4 in poor reception area only. I can also make the call drop out all together if the signal is already bad enough to begin with.
Note that in strong reception area it is also not possible to replicate the signal drop on iPhone 4, as shown by many YouTube videos, even if you do a death grip.
It's law of physics.
This issue does not bother me because I'll always use a case for my SGS.
All smartphones have this problem, didn't you guys listen to Steve Jobs?
lolz
yesterdays event was another publicity stunt by steve jobs
Hey now don't confuse this with the iphone 4 issue The difference here is the sgs doesn't do this by just bridging 2 pieces of metal, i.e. placing a single finger on the phone. You need to block the whole signal by covering it. I really doubt a case would have any effect on this as well. We are talking laws of physics vs a simple design flaw.
Cant really replicate it, but it can be a just signal representation bag.
I notice that sometimes I have like one bar, but if I go into setting and look at signal strenghts it can be exceptionally strong at the same time.
This just in..
Well... I put mine in a ledshielded box, padded it with sealhide (cause in Norway we have that laying around..) and swallowed it whole!
Bluetooth -> Working fine!
Camera -> Working Fine! (impressive really!)
Reception -> Working fine!
Todo:
* Testing swype whilst death-gripping the bugger!
eaglesteve said:
It's law of physics.
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Click to collapse
and some basic common sense
of course it seems like that is only applicable to people who are intellectual enough to understand physic of radio waves and its interaction with the environment.
I think there has been an explosive growth in the level of public awareness concerning the effect of environment and human hand on cell phones after the iPhone 4 issue. I didn't realize my old phones had the same problem until I started testing it both good and bad reception areas. Then I searched in net and found examples after examples of videos demontrating th problem on other phones posted ages ago.
..hmmmm.. interesting.. I tried my best to replicate the issue..
..and yeah.. i can make it lose signal strength.. down to no bars..
..here is where the problem arises.. i can still make a phone call to my GF..
..nope, i didn't use just my left hand to cover the back side of the phone..
..i used my entire 2 finger and palm.. so the answer is, it doesn't have the iphone 4 flaw.
..lefty? righty? no problem, you can hold the SGS both ways and will never drop your call.
..hope this clears out all those who is trying to make a bad press out of the SGS..
Indoors, with my back to the window and my body kinda shielding the phone, I can make it drop from -81 to -97 dbm, by covering the entire bottom back of the phone. I can make it drop down further to -105 dbm by also covering the bottom front. However, both those ways of holding the phone are unnatural and if I turn around and face the window(phone infront, still held between my two hands) it shoots back up to -81 dbm.
So, is there a problem? Not as far as I can tell. As long as I hold it normally it's unaffected.
Regards
dakine; said:
Hey now don't confuse this with the iphone 4 issue The difference here is the sgs doesn't do this by just bridging 2 pieces of metal, i.e. placing a single finger on the phone. You need to block the whole signal by covering it. I really doubt a case would have any effect on this as well. We are talking laws of physics vs a simple design flaw.
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Click to collapse
Actually I think SGS's problem is even more serious than iPhone 4.
I can reduce the SGS signal by 30 dBm consistently at home by merely placing it on my palm without even griping it. With iphone4, I think Anandtech's test reduce it by only 24dBm by death grip or bridging the metal. I have got a crude video showing this if you want to see it, but you should be able to replicate it yourself.
Related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2g5J4qPp54
A video clearly showing the cause of the 3G/Edge switching, and quite "WTF" at that
Does your phone do this?
(P.S. You can access Phone Info like in the video to see your signal strength by getting AnyCut from the Market -> Long press home screen -> Shortcuts -> AnyCut -> Activity -> Phone Info)
Easier way to access phone info:
Open up the dialer, *#*#INFO#*#*
Is this really all that suprising? I'd put money on the same thing happening with most phones with the antenna in a similar position.
Not had any noticable problems with 3G in the UK.
After watching all these videos I started freaking myself out about the 3g issue, but then I realized that 1. I never did any of this and wasn't constantly checking my G1 to see if I was on edge and 2. the only time that anything close to what happens in that video (for me at least) happens to me is if I'm somewhere with spotty 3g anyway. I'm sitting at my house right now where I get great 3g and if I cover the phone with my hands I lose maybe 8db at the most. I think the rumors of the 3g issue are greatly exaggerated.
If your in a poor 3g area it will do this. And like dude above said it'll do that on most phones. I remember getting my tp it had in the instructions Something about not covering the radio at the top of the phone (tps was at the top). Now I'm on horrible 3 g area and tested this and it did switch back n forth while doing that, but it also does it to my tp2 also, so it gonna happen on most phones in bad coverage, now when I'm closer to a tower it wont do that...
Any phone will act like that.. most I mean.
In my house I usually have around -97 through -101 dBm (with the phone on my desk, no hands).
What do you guys see as your average signal strength?
staulkor said:
Easier way to access phone info:
Open up the dialer, *#*#INFO#*#*
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Typing that every single time you want to see the phone info is easier than tapping one shortcut?
Paul22000 said:
Typing that every single time you want to see the phone info is easier than tapping one shortcut?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Or you can not download anything and just go to settings, about phone and status and get the same info....
Paul22000 said:
In my house I usually have around -97 through -101 dBm (with the phone on my desk, no hands).
What do you guys see as your average signal strength?
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Click to collapse
-70dBm to -79dBm no hands -77dBm to -81dBm in hand.
Not had any noticable problems with 3G at home...may loose 1 bar once in a while.
wow, i just tried the exact same test and got the same results and i am in a very strong 3g area (tempe)...
You are covering the antenna - of course you are going to see a loss of signal strength. If you are in an area where that loss causes you to bounce to edge then you are going to bounce to edge. This will happen with any phone although it is more noticeable with smartphones in my experience due to the lack of an exterior antenna (perhaps you'd see the same with bar style phones).
The N1 happens to have the antenna at the bottom of the phone (maybe not the smartest placement) whereas many other smart phones have it at the top of the phone. Whether or not you get the results in the video merely represent your relative signal strength in your area.
I've been trying to force myself to use my N1 with my left hand more then my right to keep the singal strength up...seems to be on the bottom right of the phone...
krohnjw said:
You are covering the antenna - of course you are going to see a loss of signal strength. If you are in an area where that loss causes you to bounce to edge then you are going to bounce to edge. This will happen with any phone although it is more noticeable with smartphones in my experience due to the lack of an exterior antenna (perhaps you'd see the same with bar style phones).
The N1 happens to have the antenna at the bottom of the phone (maybe not the smartest placement) whereas many other smart phones have it at the top of the phone. Whether or not you get the results in the video merely represent your relative signal strength in your area.
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Well, it's very natural to want to hold the phone at the bottom. So basically it's just bad design then?...
This strikes me as pretty much of a non-issue. Yes, human flesh is not very transparent to radio at these frequencies, so if you wrap a couple of centimeters of it around the antenna, you'll see a drop in signal strength. They have to put the antenna somewhere, so it's just a matter of putting your hand somewhere else. For myself, I hold the phone with my thumb on one side edge, my two middle fingers on the other side edge, and my index finger on the back next to the camera to press the earpiece against my ear. It feels very comfortable and quite natural that way, and it leaves plenty of air space around the antenna at the bottom. Holding it this way, I never have any signal strength problems or dropped calls.
There may indeed be some 3G/EDGE issues where the algorithm for when to switch isn't quite right; I can't tell about that because I only get EDGE inside my house and always get 3G outside my house, so I've never seen the flipping back and forth that seems to be the basis of most folks' complaints on this topic. I'm just not terribly impressed by an experiment showing that wrapping your hand around the antenna causes the signal strength to go down -- I mean, who'd have expected that? ;-)
Paul22000 said:
Well, it's very natural to want to hold the phone at the bottom. So basically it's just bad design then?...
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Click to collapse
Yeah, it is definitely a design that is not the most friendly, but the N1 is not the first phone to do it and likely won't be the last.
The video in question doesn't "show" anything new other than human flesh isn't very transparent to radio signals - anyone in a weaker coverage area can replicate the video while those in very strong 3G coverage areas (where you get a strong 3G signal not where the map says it's best) likely won't see any drop to edge unless they have hulk hands.
This doesn't appear to be any sort of newly discovered build issue (to be fair the manual that comes with the N1 states to avoid placing your hand/fingers on the bottom of the phone, with illustration on pg 12 ), rather it's a flaw in the design of the phone due to the location of the antenna and people's tendency to hold the phone covering the antenna.
@wmm and krohnjw
I'm just not terribly impressed by an experiment showing that wrapping your hand around the antenna causes the signal strength to go down -- I mean, who'd have expected that? ;-)
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Click to collapse
but the N1 is not the first phone to do it and likely won't be the last.
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Click to collapse
The point isn't that [wrapping your hand around an antenna decreasing signal strength] is new information.
The point is, why does this happen so EASILY with the Nexus One?
And why has this phenomenon never appeared in the news so prominently for any other phone in the history of mobile phones, as it has with the Nexus One? THAT is the issue.
Also, the Motorla Droid has the antenna at the bottom (the bottom lip), does it not? Why doesn't that phone have any issues?
.... Why exactly are we placing the antennas at the bottom of any phone.. I mean you hold the phone on the bottom, like seriously? Is there a reason for this o_0
Paul22000 said:
And why has this phenomenon never appeared in the news so prominently for any other phone in the history of mobile phones, as it has with the Nexus One?
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I think it's probably because there actually was a problem with the software originally released with the N1 that caused it to switch between EDGE and 3G when it really didn't need to, and the resulting hue and cry about that over-sensitized people to this particular non-issue.
Paul22000 said:
And why has this phenomenon never appeared in the news so prominently for any other phone in the history of mobile phones, as it has with the Nexus One? THAT is the issue.
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Click to collapse
You mean like this phone?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AN6265QQwhU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZ0NkLqh3nU&NR=1
Just because you have some people *****ing loudly doesn't mean this is the first high profile phone that the issue has come up with...
Paul22000 said:
Also, the Motorla Droid has the antenna at the bottom (the bottom lip), does it not? Why doesn't that phone have any issues?
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Click to collapse
Well there could be a few things off of the top of my head (if it has the antenna at the bottom)
Motorola may have wired other surfaces to act as additional antennas (as apple claimed to do with the iPhone 3G) on the droid.
If they did not then it's entirely possible that the N1 may have poor automatic gain control set up currently while the droid appropriately boosts gain when the signal drops.
When I cover the back of the antenna and hold it covered the signal drops out of what should be "acceptable" after 10-15s. I don't lose 3G but there is a significant degradation in signal (down to -93 dBm to -95 dBm). Perhaps the ACG controls aren't allowing gain to be boosted high enough for the radio to get a stronger signal or the thresh hold of what is "acceptable" is set too low.
If you hold the phone in your left hand - just like the iPhone 4's "wrong" grip (your skin presses against the lower left side of the phone) watch reception bars go down 1 or 2 bars. The longer you leave your hand there, the more the bars go down. Release and they are up again. Tried it with and without a case. Same issue.
Just because it happens to HD2 does not necessarily become a problem.
I could also reproduce that on my iPhone 3GS and 3G in some location but not in all locations. I didn't even realise this until people start complaining about iPhone 4. To reduce the signal, i have to grip it (without using a case) very tightly without lettting go for a long time. If I periodically relax my hand as I would in normal usage, then signal won't go down. As this is not the way I normally grip, and the fact that I've been using my phones for so long without even knowing there is a "problem" probably means that I have nothing to worry about.
Then, I searched the youtube and found out that it is also happening to Nokia phones:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gi1gHDa7-X0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQ7t75Uo6qQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amPG52DVQuk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Zsuxbd0L0g
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MyLrFY3mI0M
Nokia is trying to fool everyone by saying that users can hold their phones in anyway they want, but this is simply not true. See this:
http://www.appleinsider.com/article...at_iphone_4_death_grip_gets_called_on_it.html
Haven't got an iPhone 4 yet, but my impression is that this issue is more pronounced with it. IMO, although it can be easily fixed by using a case, applying a sticky tape or nail polish over the lower left half of the antenna, Apple would definitely need to address this issue so that out of the box the extent of signal strengh reduction is minimized.
I didn't say it was a problem. I was just shocked to find it out after all this time I had it and never knew. Hence the OMG!
I think the phenomena is likely to exist with every phone, in certain locations, with certain hand type, but owners of the phone may not notice it unless they deliberately test it out. I could only produce that phenomena is one part of my house but not in another. Just like half the iPhone 4 owners were not able to reproduce this problem while about half were able to. My guess is that it has nothing to do with manufacturing defects, but simply a case of the location, orientation, and body type.
There have been discussions about that at the beginning on the HD2. The antenna is in the bottom part of the phone, between the bottom and the start of the metal cover, i.e. where your hand is (as stated in the manual).
The end word is that pretty much every phone on the market will have its reception drop a bit when you hold it.
FCC only allows the antenna to be located at the bottom of the phone, away from the user's brain. Also, the level of signal strengh must not exceed what's allowed. So, even if the manufacturer want to relocate the antenna to the top part of the phone so that user's hand could not touch it so easily, it would not be approved. Simiilary, even if the manufacturer could increase the signal strength, it would not be approved.
eaglesteve said:
Haven't got an iPhone 4 yet, but my impression is that this issue is more pronounced with it. IMO, although it can be easily fixed by using a case, applying a sticky tape or nail polish over the lower left half of the antenna, Apple would definitely need to address this issue so that out of the box the extent of signal strengh reduction is minimized.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I heard that the fastest and cheapest way to solve teh Iphone 4 reception problem was to put a condom over it. They are cheaper than the bumper and are available in a varitey of colors and textures. The added plus is that you always have a condom handy should you need one
Classic Apple!
Let HTC and Nokia work tirelessly for years upon years only to one-up them with a bigger shinier version of a feature EVERY smartphone has had since 2003.
Sheesh.
wineds said:
I heard that the fastest and cheapest way to solve teh Iphone 4 reception problem was to put a condom over it. They are cheaper than the bumper and are available in a varitey of colors and textures. The added plus is that you always have a condom handy should you need one
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your recommendation would suit youself my friend. I'll use a nice looking case.
Basically every phone has way to hold it which will lower signal strength. With most smartphones it is rather easy. Most phones also have picture in manual how to hold it correctly. It's nothing new.
The HD2 issue your mentioning is a normal reaction to covering an antenna. This SHOULD happen in all phones since you are partially blocking the antena.
The iPhone 4 issue is not similar, if you go through this post:
http://gizmodo.com/5571171/iphone-4-loses-reception-when-you-hold-it-by-the-antenna-band
you'll see that the signal loss is due to connecting the left side of the antenna with the bottom by touching the left side and the bottom (left) portion of the phone. If you put a "Bumper", apple's term for cover, and then hold the iphone in exactly the same way, you will not lose the signal.
omar302 said:
If you put a "Bumper", apple's term for cover, and then hold the iphone in exactly the same way, you will not lose the signal.
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Click to collapse
The thing is I have a black rubberised case around my HD2 and even WITH the case the bars still drop.
tboy2000 said:
The thing is I have a black rubberised case around my HD2 and even WITH the case the bars still drop.
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Click to collapse
as long as you are not brothered, it cannot be called a problem.
tboy2000 said:
The thing is I have a black rubberised case around my HD2 and even WITH the case the bars still drop.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, thats because the singal has to go through your hand, so it might lose a bar or two.
All phones get this.
The Iphones problem is not the same thing, it just hast he same result.
if i leave any phone I've ever had in pretty much any spot in my house the signal flutuates.
sod all to do with holding it.
just use a BT headset
anyone cares for some duct tape?
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/apples-latest-conundrum-duct-tape-2010-07-12?dist=countdown
lol... Snapperheads...
If you watch the iphone vid on youtube showing the 'making of' the phone you'll notice the alloy frame is the antenna... Covering it will help not to drop the reception... But having to have a cover to not lose reception is a joke...
As for the HD2, all phones held in a hand will have variance in reception... I tried the left hand thing on mine and it didn't drop a bar...
i have no problem with mine........may be the signal/reception from my carrier is really great unlike that in US.....
LOL good thing i'm not left handed
/watch?v=LROTHrTR92k&feature=player_embedded#at=22
sorry I can't post links quite yet, add this onto the end of youtube.
It better not be like this when I pick it up Sunday.........
wow. i really have to wonder what he did to make it look like that.
When losing reception, phones don't go 100%-0% in a split second.
I bet he's just going for ratings after the whole iPhone mess.
Also, i can assure you that it doesn't matter how you hold it, even if you bury it in your hands from all sides, there's no catastrophic signal loss.
Mine has that problem. Full signal. Hold on the phone down the bottom and it drops down to 1 or 2 bars. As soon as you let go of the bottom, back up to full bars.
Signal loss when covering the antenna area is not a "problem", it's the laws of physics at work.
1 bar is totally reasonable, and depending on signal quality, 2 as well.
But going 100%-0%... that's pure BS.
I think this appears only when in 3G mode.
The VDO might not be telling the whole truth. From a user point of view, I have never seen signal dropped drastically like that.
Evans_Prophet said:
I think this appears only when in 3G mode.
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Click to collapse
I think it would still appear in GSM -mode, but the signal drop is nowhere near the amount when using UMTS.
Mine does it as well, in 2G and 3G, drops from -111dBm to 0dBm
My blackberry bold 9700 lose some signal when i cover the bottom. Every phone lose some signals when cover the bottom.
i can confrim this also happens with my Samsung Galaxy s aswell, and to those who say this is normal and happens to every phone, then you are wrong, i have a bunch of old nokias and NONE of them lose signal no matter where you hold it. the phones i tried it on are, the e71, 5800, the 6220 classic and the 6630. none of these phones loses any signal when gripped from anywhere. im so disappointed in this phone now
coldlazymo said:
i have a bunch of old nokias and NONE of them lose signal no matter where you hold it.
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Click to collapse
Yes they do. It's physically impossible to make an antenna that doesn't lose signal when covered. You can code the bars to show the signalstrength any way you like though. If I code the bars to show 4 bars 1-20% and a fifth at 20%-100% you'll very rarely see less than "full" signal.
Nokia is always been the best when it comes to reception quality. Am happy with my GS signal quality.
mickeko said:
Yes they do. It's physically impossible to make an antenna that doesn't lose signal when covered. You can code the bars to show the signalstrength any way you like though. If I code the bars to show 4 bars 1-20% and a fifth at 20%-100% you'll very rarely see less than "full" signal.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i tested those phones, i covered them up entirely with my hands, and there was no signal loss. it stayed at 5 bars. and its not a matter of coding since even with one bar i get good call quality.
but as Hassan said, nokia have always been very good with reception quality. and maybe i am overreacting since this is the first time i have come across this, having had all nokias before and this is my first samsung/android phone. but that doesnt really mean its acceptable, i cant get a decent signal when i hold my phone, at first i thought it was the network, since this was a different network than i was with before, but now that i have tested it and this happens, i cant help but feel like i have been screwed over a bit. going from 3-4 bars when not holding the phone to it dropping to 0 is not something i like in a phone
btw, it's best to know the difference between "no bars" and "no reception".
In contrast to most phones on the market, no bars at all means you have minimal reception.
It is still possible to make calls like this.
When there's absolutely no reception, you'll see a circle with a crossout line.
coldlazymo said:
i tested those phones, i covered them up entirely with my hands, and there was no signal loss. it stayed at 5 bars. and its not a matter of coding since even with one bar i get good call quality.
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Click to collapse
Ok, now read this carefully: Just because the bars don't go down doesn't mean you don't have any signal loss. You get signal loss on ALL phones when covering the antenna. You having 5 bars doesn't change that, it only tells us that the signal loss isn't severe enough to show on the display. That IS a matter of coding.
Obviously there's ALSO a quality difference. Depending on what transmitter/receiver is being used, the quality, location and size of the antenna and whatever will affect the quality of the signal. Some hardware have less signal loss than other when being covered, but fact is the signal loss is ALWAYS there regardless of the number of bars Nokia, Samsung, Apple or Anheuser-Busch brewery decide to show for whatever signal strength.
You can kill your data connection by covering the antenna on the GS...
Try with the speedtest app. Especially upload _WILL_ be killed proper, when the antenna is covered.
I put some standard kitchen aluminium foil between the phone and the backcover, It still drops bars, but uploading works a lot better.
its fine, i take it back now anyway, turns out i was right the first time, it is just the network. i lose bars even when the phone is sitting on a desk. and when i say lose bars, i mean the bars will actually fluctuate randomly, from having full bars to no bars, then back again, when the phone is in a stationary position on a table, near a window. it just happened to be coincidence that when i was testing it the timing was close enough for me to blame it on this. my apologies
Why is it most of the reception issues are in the US? I don't hear anything for Iphone 4 users in Japan and I'm using Galaxy S in Singapore, no drop calls, no drop signals blah blah. I think it is the network not the phone!
Oh noes, the world has come to an end, flee for your lives.....
If you are seriously disappointed that a phone made by imperfect people is not "perfect", then plz just return it and don't come back to this forum.
Unless you are getting dropped/crappy calls all the time, then wtf are you people complaining about? This forum is full of whiners.
Not as much whiners as hysterical people.
I can understand it a bit, since this isn't exactly a cheap phone, and is supposed to be one of the best (if not THE best) devices around.
The thing is that every time a POSSIBLE issue pops up, everyone start going crazy like "OH MY GOD IT'S 100% A PROBLEM THE PHONE IS NOT OK GET ME A DOCTOR"
Instead of, let's say, inspecting the matter rationally, and seeing if there's really a problem.
The Galaxy S has an almost full plastic body. There's no way it could share the iPhone's antenna problem, since the antenna is not exposed to our hands.
That video looks like an attempt to pull attention, for whatever reason. The only way i manage to replicate his results is by putting tinfoil on the back of my hand (which kind of leads me to think- we don't see the back of his hand even once in the video, nor there is sound, so possible raffling cannot be heared)
And even then, the results are not as drastic.
Everyone should calm a bit down and enjoy the device instead of inspecting it under a microscope for problems.
If a problem that affects your use somehow (e.g GPS, lags) appears, THEN do the complaining.
http://www.informationweek.com/news...html?articleID=225900042&cid=RSSfeed_IWK_News
Anyone see this happen to there phone?
Holy crap it's true, but you have to hold it in such an awkward way that I doubt I will be able to reproduce it in real life use.
I guess The Jobs wasn't lying about other phones having the issue.
I heard about this Via T-MoNews... I have tried to emulate it and I will say this:
It is true. When I held the phone "Death Grip" Style.. I lost 'bars'. But 'bars' mesning the physical representation of bars on the screen. I did not lose and data speed, and i did not check to see if voice was affected, but i have been talking on the phone all day with no problem. I also tried this in my basement where i have poor 3g reception.
I think that this is an issue on the grounds of the physical representation of 'bars' on the phone may not be calibrated properly, but if anything, a fix would make the phone appear to have MORE service, and not less, like the iPhone.
Yep, tested a few times. It's true, but it's entirely a different issue from the iPhone4's troubles.
Basically the full antenna hump has to by lying flush against the palm of your hand and it has to be held down against the palm with quite a bit of force, basically an airtight seal. I don't ever see me holding the phone in this fashion, for any reason other than to test this.
I don't think anyone ever denied that every phone in existence has some signal drop when held in a particular way. My Vibrant goes from 4 bars to 3 when held deliberately attempting to cover the entire antenna bump, but I am inside an office building that causes AT&T to go from 1-2 bars to zero when not holding the phone at all.
I attempted the two handed airtight seal method and couldn't get more than 1 bar to drop.
I can see it now "Every phone is going to get this death grip test." Is death grip considered has holding it normally or covering everything? As far as I know, iPhone had a problem when you normally hold your phone with your left hand. I went outside and did the same thing since I don't get a strong reception in my house and it was fine. Now, if I hold the bottom of the phone, then bars drop, but that should be expected.
Another thing to mention here. In that link posted by the OP, the editor had no trouble with calls and etc on the iPhone 4 while the Apple's co-founder had a different experience according to an article posted by Techcrunch.
Yes, this is for all cellphones...for a tp2 if I hold it by pinching the top right corner....I loose 3 bars...but it is not realistic to hold it that way..
On the iphone they had the antenna swirled around the phone...thus it end up in the bottom left corner which you normally would hold...
That article is trying to cover for the iphone's design flaw in general..on the Vibrant and captivate you wouldn't generally hold the phone that way for it to matter...
Drop in bars, but no dropped calls. That is a massive distinction that the source article fails to mention. Vibrant FTW
gTen said:
That article is trying to cover for the iphone's design flaw in general..on the Vibrant and captivate you wouldn't generally hold the phone that way for it to matter...
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That's the key issue - it's a non-issue for most phones during "normal use". You have to actually try to cover the exact area, which is not a normal holding position most of the time. That's not the case for the 4G, I've seen it happen when holding the phone as I normally would with my left hand.
I'm not trying to bash the iPhone because I do like the design overall, but the article seems to leave out some key distinctions that make the iPhone issue different.
That article is so incredibly poor. ^ hit on it exactly. These are NOT the same issues.
Let the thread die.. i do not like seeing iGadget comparisons on XDA.
Ha, do it for me guys!
Poser said:
Drop in bars, but no dropped calls. That is a massive distinction that the source article fails to mention. Vibrant FTW
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I ran a speed test with and without the deathgrip on my vibrant (a 4 bar difference) and noticed no notable speed changes.
Holding the phone normally, with my palm about 1/4" away from the bump/antennae on the back of the phone, I definitely lose signal, 3 bars to 0 bars. I also definitely lose download and upload speeds(according to speedtest.net app).
Also, when I go to Menu>Status>About Phone and check the signal there, it goes from about -85dBm 8asu to 0dBm 0asu.
Why would any cell phone maker put the antenna at the bottom where it could easily be covered by the hand? Doesnt it make more sense to put the antenna at the top?
I believe it is illegal to put the antenna in the upper part of the phone
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
jsgrindin said:
I believe it is illegal to put the antenna in the upper part of the phone
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
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I don't know if it's "illegal" as in punishable by jail time, but I believe FCC regulations enforced on cell phone manufacturers mandate antennas to be on the bottom of the phone to increase distance to that grey spongy thing between your ears.
Has to do with exposure to radiation from the antenna.
What if you're holding the phone in landscape with your fingers going over the back of the hump? Does that affect data, speakerphone calls, or GPS signals?
I can reproduce signal loss cupping it in my hand but no call or data change. The iphone issue actually detunes the antenna.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
People. These are completely separate issues. Please quit trying to make our phone like the iPhonie, good or bad. jeebus.
after i put on the gel case from t-mobile i can no longer replicate the "death grip"
s15274n said:
People. These are completely separate issues. Please quit trying to make our phone like the iPhonie, good or bad. jeebus.
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Agreed.
Troll mode [ON] OFF
$10 says a sledgehammer will also cause you to lose signal.
Troll mode ON [OFF]
Sorry.
[email protected] death grip
Ok so yesterday (in Sydney, Australia) I returned my HTC Desire HD after I was facing poor reception when compared to 2 other phones used in the same room of the house. I did carry out the factory reset as suggested by HTC and also wiped the SIM cards clean. For the tests I used a Nokia 6120 and a Sony Ericsson k530i. I also used SIM cards from 3, Telstra and the one that came with the Desire HD from Vodafone. In all the tests the Desire HD had significantly worse reception (at least if the reception icons are anything to judge by).
Yesterday Vodafone replaced my Desire HD on the spot as I was within 28days of purchase. At first I seemed to think the reception was better on the new phone however this was with the phone laying on a box and not touching it. As soon as I picked up the phone reception became lousy again like my previous Desire HD. After reading comments from other users on this site regarding the antenna being in the cover plate at the bottom I tried holding the phone in different positions to see if this bottom cover plate really did affect things. The two videos linked to here show my findings using the brand new replacement phone I picked up yesterday. Also in the second video is shown if a factory reset or a gel case changes this isse.
Now that I've got a better understanding of what is causing this issue I will contact HTC again to see what they say about it. I'll keep you updated. Please post feedback on your phone including what carrier & country you are using and what ROM and radio version is loaded. Thanks
Here are the two videos I made:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_ljHtUMOH8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nr16fGAVzQg
Okay I've contacted HTC in Australia and the person taking my call has looked at the two videos. He's said he has documented the issue and will forward the videos on to the HTC engineers to have a look at. Will let you know if they contact me with any updates. Feel free to contact HTC if you find similar issues with your phone. I would think the more people reporting this to HTC, the more importance they should place on trying to fix this issue.
Mine id exactly the same. I already noticed this since last week when I got it. Just dont hold it at the bortom.
are you part vampire or some thing
turn your lights on
put your phone in a case and your problems will be solved
Framedtrash said:
are you part vampire or some thing
turn your lights on
put your phone in a case and your problems will be solved
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Click to collapse
AHEM. bit sounds like someone i know.. may be Stevey ..
But yes when reception is low, take your hand of the antenna at the bottom. I own a K530i too, where antennae is at back. I will get poor signal, if i hold it in particular way or if i keep it in cushion or so. but K530i antennae is ergonomic to hold but desire hd is placed right at where my palm holds it. this happens with WIFI too when i hold my fingers covering the side. but again its bearable. lets see how it holds in the long run.
At least the DHD, is ambidextrous. You can hold it with either hand just grip it in the middle. Compared to The iphone 4 which has crap signal when used by right handed girls. Lol lol lol.
Well, never had this problem even when I cover the bottom part the signal just drops 1 bar and that's it, no problems with the signal and whatsoever.
To the OP, just wondered what build no. and baseband is on your phone???
Originally posted by
Framedtrash are you part vampire or some thing
turn your lights on
put your phone in a case and your problems will be solved
Yesterday 07:02 PM
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There problem is for an amateur like myself posting youtube videos is that if I don't decrease the exposure then you cannot see clearly the reception bars especially when I look at the backlit screen from the Sony Ericsson. I wanted to be sure most of all you can clearly see the what the phone screens are displaying.
Secondly please look at video 2 in the link it clearly shows how the Desire HD works in my experience in a case. Bascially a gel case solves nothing in my situation or at best maybe only delays by a few seconds the reception loss when holding the bottom.
Originally posted by nm8 To the OP, just wondered what build no. and baseband is on your phone???
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Please look at video 1. It clearly show the software information page in the video which shows the ROM verison, radio version, kernal version and baseband (or radio version) from the stock Vodafone Australia ROM that came preloaded as of yesterday January 23. I don't believe recent radio or ROMs fix this issue as SWIM loaded 1.72.405.3 with the latest radio his phone to try to solve this issue, that didn't fix it so SWIM then tried around 4 different radio versions including the latest "test" release from UK and still no significant improvement. I'd be happy to hear other's feedback on this and what ROMs and Radio versions they use and if any real improvement. I will make clear though that with my brand new phone, it is stock and unmodified.
I mean no disrespect guys when I say this, I'm happy to take constructive criticism and feedback just please have a look at the two videos first and consider everything explained and put forward before posting a quick response.
As I mention in the video this issue is not as bad with Telstra and 3 SIM cards in my room as they seem to have better reception and don't drop as many bars (but they still do drop bars) holding the phone in the "death grip". The worst is the included Vodafone SIM card which the phone is on a contract with and doesn't get completely full reception before holding the phone as shown. I would imagine that the same scenario would be replicated elsewhere. Find an area where you don't get full reception and see how much it drops when you hold your phone like I have in the video. Again this is going to most affect data while browsing the web ect rather than calls where you are likely to hold the phone differently.
I don't want to start a war or get people upset here. I love the Desire HD and Android. I've paid for a long term 24month contract and I plan on keeping my phone. I'm only just surprised to find out this issue and I hope HTC will take it seriously to try to find a way to help out with solving it. Take care guys. Again if anyone else wants to alert HTC to this issue I think they will be more likely to treat this with more importance. As present HTC Australia seemed to say they'd heard nothing about it and played it down a bit.
Ok, you say the recpetion is worse than your older phone are you actually measuring the recpetion or looking at the bars?. More importantly does it actually result in dropped calls? I believe the issues with the iPhone4 (and if apple are to be believed all phones in the world released before it) where that the bars are only a vague representation of signal strength and that if held wrongly it dropped calls.
I don't pay enough attention to the signal bars, but certainly my ability to make and recieve calls is no worse than my previous HTC Magic and better than my wife's iPhone 3g
Just tested on my phone and here are the results... If i push the bottom of phone to my palm the bars drop from 4 to 2, when holding it in such way that palm covers the bottom bars drop from 4 to 3.... When holding it normally i have full bars, so i dont really see a problem...
Just adding my 2 pence, prior to updating my Radio I would get low or no signal at home. Probably the only draw back of living in rural Wales.
Now after flashing the latest Radio 26.04.03.30_M, I get a solid 3 bars 90% of the time.
No new cell towers have been constructed, the locals would go mental! In essence what I'm trying to say is, try an update your Radio.
Ensure you follow all guides to the letter.
Still no response from OP, as to whether this has a detrimental effect on real world reception i.e dropped calls, so as to whether this is an actual problem at all!
Edit: I assume from the resounding silence, that there's is no actual real world effect?... Nothing to see here move along please!
^^ I'm sorry I cannot answer that question as ever since got the phone with this SIM card I've been waiting for Vodafone to get back to me to change over my existing phone number so I've put on hold to use this Vodafone SIM card to make any calls. I can't believe that many years after the Australia wide (I believe government) policy to be able to keep your phone number that Vodafone are making a stink about it being such an issue to swap my number over. So in short I haven't been using the new SIM card and only been using Wi-Fi because I want to wait till it's transferred to my old number. I would imagine holding the phone vertically as shown that web browsing on zero bars wouldn't be great. If someone could test this googling net speed test with the bottom held and then without the bottom held I would be most grateful. I would also guess that once I move to an area with even less reception that data would drop out completely. Again this is just my educated guess. Others will probably have more experience on this.
ghostofcain said:
Ok, you say the recpetion is worse than your older phone are you actually measuring the recpetion or looking at the bars?. More importantly does it actually result in dropped calls? I believe the issues with the iPhone4 (and if apple are to be believed all phones in the world released before it) where that the bars are only a vague representation of signal strength and that if held wrongly it dropped calls.
I don't pay enough attention to the signal bars, but certainly my ability to make and recieve calls is no worse than my previous HTC Magic and better than my wife's iPhone 3g
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Click to collapse
The bars cannot be trusted and that's why we have a little thing called FieldTest. Dial *#*#7262626#*#* and you can see the actual signal strength in dbm. When completely covered and the palm pressed to the antenna the signal drops 7-10 db which should not be a problem. I normally hold the phone a little higher, covering only a small part of the antenna and the signal drop is even smaller - like 2-3 db. That's for WCDMA, for GSM frequencies it should be even more negligible. Too lazy to test it though .
Sent from my Desire HD using XDA App
tkolev said:
The bars cannot be trusted and that's why we have a little thing called FieldTest. Dial *#*#7262626#*#* and you can see the actual signal strength in dbm. When completely covered and the palm pressed to the antenna the signal drops 7-10 db which should not be a problem. I normally hold the phone a little higher, covering only a small part of the antenna and the signal drop is even smaller - like 2-3 db. That's for WCDMA, for GSM frequencies it should be even more negligible. Too lazy to test it though .
Sent from my Desire HD using XDA App
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Click to collapse
It's about the same with GSM at least for me, which to be honest isn't a worry, so again I don't see this as being an issue in real world use
ghostofcain said:
It's about the same with GSM at least for me, which to be honest isn't a worry, so again I don't see this as being an issue in real world use
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Some side-by-side comparison with the iPhone 4
Signal strength with the iPhone is ~5 db worse than the DHD. Both phones laying on the table so no touching whatsoever. When touched (with just one finger) at the "sweet spot" (bridging the WiFi and gsm antennas) the signal on the iPhone drops like 15-20 db. Both phones are in WCDMA mode.
Again I normally hold the phone higher than the cover by the sides of the phone. Unfortunately with the iPhone my ring finger goes exactly where the most trouble is caused, but if you ask a certain someone that's because I'm holding it wrong
Sent from my Desire HD using XDA App
I read this a few days ago. It may prove useful repeated here.
http://m.gizmodo.com/5740076/giz-explains-why-your-call-dropped
Yoshi_523 said:
Please post feedback on your phone including what carrier & country you are using and what ROM and radio version is loaded. Thanks
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Click to collapse
hello,
i am from austria europa and its the same
when i hold the handy with my fingers only on the top i have 4points
when i hold it with my right hand i have 4points sometimes 3
when i hold my handy with the left hand i have 2 points
i thought the last week.. why i have ever a problem when i call out from here ...never i had it with my nokia n80.
right now i know it..... super work from HTC... siro points for her
it was my last HTC handy for sure... also some others as
incoming call display doesn't indicate that a call is forwarded etc.... but thats an other story
tnx
cqf
Same here.
When I hold the phone with my right hand it drops 1 bar (around 6db in FieldTest)
When I hold the phone with my left hand it drops 2-3 bars (around 12db in FieldTest).
When it poor reception areas (around 2 bars signal) holding in the left hand it switches from 3G to 2G.
I think there is definitively a signal problem, especially for left handed people.
It would be nice to gather more impressions.