Database Users

How can it be that the IPHONE is more open than the G1, which has open source?

On the iphone everybody can install 3rd party apps and they can install which bashband version they want. the G1 that should be open source can change the rc30 version to all the people that get the update OTA. i dont understand that.

I think that the G1 is inherently MORE open out of the box than an iPhone. While it is possible to jailbreak an iphone and install 3rd party apps (Not taking into account the app store). It isn't something you'd be able to do without the jailbreak plus you have to repeat the process after any update.
A factory G1 is capable of installing 3rd party apps without any modification, also those apps have greater access to the internal workings of the phone, (again I'm talking about an out of the box iPhone versus an out of the box G1).
The whole root situation is an interesting one, I believe that is a bit naughty to not allow root access without tinkering, but I also understand that the majority of end users will not be that bothered by it.
As for openness, I would say that the iPhone and G1 are on an equal footing once modified but the G1 has the clear lead over the iPhone unmodified.

i dont agree with you. with my iphone out of teh box without jailbreak i can download apps over the app store exctly like the G1 from the google market.

Okay then, try downloading an app from a website and install it without using the appstore. I can do that via my G1. Also try developing an app and install it on your friends iPhone without having to submit it to anyone for pre-approval.

all i need is hebrew support in the iphone i have it for 2 diffrent company in the G1 i dont have it couse i have RC30 OTA. and not the moddified.

It isn't very clear what you're talking about here my friend, are you saying you already have hebrew support on your iPhone or that you want it? Or are you talking about the G1 having different language support?
If you're talking about the G1 then there is currently a few different projects working on different language versions of android. I believe that google are working on one and that there is a project on this very board attempting to do the same.

in the iphone there is a hebrew support on software. in the G1 i cant do nothing to read only hebrew (if it read and write hebrew its will be my dream).

If what you want is hebrew support, it's coming. Actually it's here right now, but you need root to do it.
Anyways you can't compare the two in that respect, there are over 7 million iPhones out there (it's the second most popular phone) so of course there's hebrew support. And if I recall, there wasn't for a while.
On a last note, you can't out-of-the-box use your Iphone in israel, it had to be reverse-engineered. You can of course buy an unlocked G1 for $300 that will work with an Orange SIM.
The iPhone is NOT open, it's not OPEN SOURCE, and it is way more locked down. If the G1 had had even half the popularity the iPhone had then there would be out-of-the-box hebrew support.
if you have root, you may be able to get hebrew via root on your G1:
http://www.talkandroid.com/android-forums/android-chat/660-hebrew-fonts-g1.html
Hag Sameach, by the way.

thanks for all but the problem is that i dont have root. i have rc30.

Yes I understand... my wife and I both need root, not just for hebrew support but for all the cool functions that it allows.
Anyways fear not, things will change soon. There's a huge OTA update coming out early next year, hopefully they will address some of these issues as well.
Remember, tel aviv is one of the major android development locations; so I can almost guarantee hebrew fonts sometime next year. At least, that's what I've heard from everyone I've spoken to about it.

omrynet said:
On the iphone everybody can install 3rd party apps and they can install which bashband version they want. the G1 that should be open source can change the rc30 version to all the people that get the update OTA. i dont understand that.
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stop crying and stick to your iphone , the phone isnt made to cater to everyones needs, thats why its so many different phones and carriers, go buy one that meets your needs out of the box you idoit!!!!!!!

djkdawg said:
stop crying and stick to your iphone , the phone isnt made to cater to everyones needs, thats why its so many different phones and carriers, go buy one that meets your needs out of the box you idoit!!!!!!!
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wow xda really lower to this? come on ppl

apatcas said:
wow xda really lower to this? come on ppl
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Its usually a junior member, the G1 seems to have brought some riff raff to the forums.

omrynet said:
On the iphone everybody can install 3rd party apps and they can install which bashband version they want. the G1 that should be open source can change the rc30 version to all the people that get the update OTA. i dont understand that.
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I agree with you, at the moment. The gphone is currently as usable as the iphone at the time when it was out for 3 month. Not so much apps, mods,... you know.
I hope there will come a bypass or anything like that soon.
In my opinion signed updates violates against the opensource license.
PS: i ordered both gphone and iphone

MacFloid said:
In my opinion signed updates violates against the opensource license.
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I think this forum needs a sticky explaining what open source means and implies because not a single day goes by that I don't see someone erroneously invoking the "but it's open source!" argument.

jashsu said:
I think this forum needs a sticky explaining what open source means and implies because not a single day goes by that I don't see someone erroneously invoking the "but it's open source!" argument.
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Quite true. Here are some good resources:
http://www.opensource.org/docs/osd
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_source
Also a reminder that while Android is open, the G1 is not Android.

jashsu said:
I think this forum needs a sticky explaining what open source means and implies because not a single day goes by that I don't see someone erroneously invoking the "but it's open source!" argument.
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benmyers2941 said:
Also a reminder that while Android is open, the G1 is not Android.
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I wish this forum could give some kind of star-ranking to helpful and knowledgeable members. It's rare to find people here who understand what free-and-open-source means.
The way T-Mobile has chosen to cripple the G1 for users who weren't quick enough to keep root is ethically reprehensible, but not legally wrong or in violation of any licensing.

ahhhh
Already beaten to death here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=461893
and locked by Neoobs. Maybe we can get the same joy here.
--M

If anyone can prove that this discussion isn't leaning more and more to a useless discussion getting out of hand and is actually about developing or fixing issues on the G1 and it should not belong to be in the general thread.
Please don't hesitate to inform me.
In the mean time this thread is is closed and moved.
People might not like me for repeating this But Development threads are for development, and actually most of XDA is for Development.
If the forum would be filled with "I Think G1 is not delivering what it promised" there would probably not be Android running on other HTC phones besides the G1.
There are threads for Chit Chat and even then it would be nice if the discussion is respectful.

Who Should Root their Phones?

I guess this is kind of a question for the XDA community at large, since you are considered the "rooting gods" by us mere mortals. That being said... I've had enough experience over the years and I've rooted both WinMo and Android phones, including my Hero (running ic3 right now). What bothers me is the push by some people (on other forums, like the Sprint fan page on Facebook) for anyone and everyone to root their phone because "it's like jailbreaking an iPhone" (which is nonsense, since most people jailbreak iPhones to install apps that Apple refuses to put in the App Store) or "because the carriers don't want you to have access to all your phone's features" (more nonsense). Anyone technical enough knows that rooting is like giving someone permanent root access on a Linux or UNIX system, with the risk of doing serious damage if you don't know what you're doing. So, looking for an opinion here, is it wise for "Joe (or Jill) Average User" to attempt to root their phone?
And, as a second question, once rooted, it's always been my assumption that warranties are voided, you lose Total Equipment Protection, etc., but some (supposedly smart and informed people) say that they are not. Opinions again, please?

mjb5406 said:
I guess this is kind of a question for the XDA community at large, since you are considered the "rooting gods" by us mere mortals. That being said... I've had enough experience over the years and I've rooted both WinMo and Android phones, including my Hero (running ic3 right now). What bothers me is the push by some people (on other forums, like the Sprint fan page on Facebook) for anyone and everyone to root their phone because "it's like jailbreaking an iPhone" (which is nonsense, since most people jailbreak iPhones to install apps that Apple refuses to put in the App Store) or "because the carriers don't want you to have access to all your phone's features" (more nonsense). Anyone technical enough knows that rooting is like giving someone permanent root access on a Linux or UNIX system, with the risk of doing serious damage if you don't know what you're doing. So, looking for an opinion here, is it wise for "Joe (or Jill) Average User" to attempt to root their phone?
And, as a second question, once rooted, it's always been my assumption that warranties are voided, you lose Total Equipment Protection, etc., but some (supposedly smart and informed people) say that they are not. Opinions again, please?
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I think only people who are comfortable rooting should root.
The warranty is null and void if you root the phone.

mjb5406 said:
So, looking for an opinion here, is it wise for "Joe (or Jill) Average User" to attempt to root their phone?
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Is it wise? That depends on the user deciding if he/she should root. Should they be given the same opportunity as someone that's more tech savvy than the average user? Sure, why not. Android encourages users to fully customize there devices, if that means getting one's hand dirty to get the most of your phone, then give it go. However, if the end user is afraid about "bricking" or "voiding" there warranty; then it's probably best they stick with the factory defaults.
At the end of the day; it's the user's choice. Rooting of course allows one to get the maximum potential out of the phone, non-rooting allows for a decent experience. However, it's quite obvious that once someone see's the many wonderful things that comes with rooting; they too are often enticed and decide to take the plunge. Which, ultimately is a good thing; they're able to join a community like XDA, learn new things about there device and about computers/hacking that they thought they never could, and of course, they now get to enjoy the benefits of rooting.
mjb5406 said:
And, as a second question, once rooted, it's always been my assumption that warranties are voided, you lose Total Equipment Protection, etc., but some (supposedly smart and informed people) say that they are not. Opinions again, please?
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The thing is, even Sprint employees root there phones, so at the end of the day, its comes down to the sales/tech person at your local Sprint store. People on here have said that if your phone is broken and you take it in to get it serviced without flashing the Sprint RUU that Sprint will say you've voided your warranty because they can't work with the "modified" phone (e.g. rooted, etc).
However, this is relative from person to person and from store to store. Like I said, pending on the Sprint rep/tech -- they can choose to service your "modified" phone or tell you that you've voided your warranty and that they won't help you. Of course; to remedy this, you just need to go home; flash the latest Sprint RUU and go back to the store -- then they can't complain.
So, if you're worried about voiding your warrenty or that Sprint will freak out, flash the latest RUU before going into your local Sprint store... if you have a good rapport with your Sprint reps/techs, it shouldn't matter if you're phones rooted or not though.

You cannot compare the iphone to the android on a operating system level because android is free under the GPL and by "rooting" the operating system only means that you enabled an option that was otherwise disabled by the source for the end users protection, not because its in any violation of laws like the Iphone.
Rooting the device only opens opportunities for more options on a less limited field rather than being on a more limited field with little options. The iphone is basically like a "Nascar Vehichle" its tagged and ridiculed with many logos and flare, It's commercialized in such a way that not only does jail braking and unlocking violate the companies terms of use but other companies that own the hardware inside the device. My speculation on the sprint fan club is this...
There are three people in the tech field. People who use their equipment,p eople who play with it and people who do both. I do both.. which one are you?

Powers16 said:
You cannot compare the iphone to the android on a operating system level because android is free under the GPL and by "rooting" the operating system only means that you enabled an option that was otherwise disabled by the source for the end users protection, not because its in any violation of laws like the Iphone.
Rooting the device only opens opportunities for more options on a less limited field rather than being on a more limited field with little options. The iphone is basically like a "Nascar Vehichle" its tagged and ridiculed with many logos and flare, It's commercialized in such a way that not only does jail braking and unlocking violate the companies terms of use but other companies that own the hardware inside the device. My speculation on the sprint fan club is this...
There are three people in the tech field. People who use their equipment,p eople who play with it and people who do both. I do both.. which one are you?
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No question... I do both. But, then again, I've been doing this for years. My issue is that it seems like there are two groups of "rooters": Those that do it and understand what they are doing and the risks that are involved and those that do it, tell other people to do it, and really don't understand the ramifications other than to say it's "cool". There has even been a request for someone to post rooting FAQ on the official Sprint page on Facebook (which is very stupid) and lots of talk about people want to root because they want "free tethering" (also very stupid); to talk about this on a Sprint-monitored forum is not a good idea, IMHO, and to tell people to root their phones when all they get is "What's rooting?" as a reply tells me that those people should probably be content just using their phones and, if they run into problems, go to Sprint for assistance. It's usually easy to tell who has a more technical understanding of the phone just by the content of their posts.

mjb5406 said:
No question... I do both. But, then again, I've been doing this for years. My issue is that it seems like there are two groups of "rooters": Those that do it and understand what they are doing and the risks that are involved and those that do it, tell other people to do it, and really don't understand the ramifications other than to say it's "cool". There has even been a request for someone to post rooting FAQ on the official Sprint page on Facebook (which is very stupid) and lots of talk about people want to root because they want "free tethering" (also very stupid); to talk about this on a Sprint-monitored forum is not a good idea, IMHO, and to tell people to root their phones when all they get is "What's rooting?" as a reply tells me that those people should probably be content just using their phones and, if they run into problems, go to Sprint for assistance. It's usually easy to tell who has a more technical understanding of the phone just by the content of their posts.
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This is completely true. There are a LOT of people on here who do things without reading or thinking. I think it was when the Hero dropped in price. Everyone bought it, they started googling it, they found XDA, and started posting left and right. I got my Hero the day it came out, but I didn't root it until January 2010. I was a little hesitant and scared, but I did it.... and I'm glad I did.

Researcher To Release Web-Based Android Attack

I hope we get 2.2
http://it.slashdot.org/story/10/11/05/0229205/Researcher-To-Release-Web-Based-Android-Attack
"The attack targets the browser in older, Android 2.1-and-earlier versions of the phones."

http://forums.t-mobile.com/t5/Samsung-Vibrant/Security-vulnerability-in-2-1/td-p/535335
And the thread appears to have already been locked.
EDIT: My bad, the link icon isn't a lock icon.

What an ass. So he figures out something and now hes going to release it?
So is his intensions to piss people off or force Googles hands to fix it?

kizer said:
What an ass. So he figures out something and now hes going to release it?
So is his intensions to piss people off or force Googles hands to fix it?
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I think its the latter. That, or to light a fire under the OEMs & network operators to get 2.2 out to more devices. Just my $0.02...
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App

The current OEM vendor/carrier model is one of the worst parts of Android. Google attempted to break this model via the Nexus One. Hopefully it does light a fire to improve the security model for these phones.
Google may be forced to rein in some of the rampant variances to secure the platform via enforcing a minimum level of compliance to security updates or else revoke a phone makers ability to use the Android trademark.
The problem has already been fixed with 2.2, so the onus is on the OEMs to get their act together.

Some things make me want to respect this guy, then again it affects me since we have yet to recieve 2.2. But yes I believe all android phones should be running current software.

I wonder if you need to be rooted in order to fall the vicitm, unless you can push superuser.apk via the exploit and run it.
Have to give him props for trying, and like seeing that he is using linux based OS to develop on

lqaddict said:
I wonder if you need to be rooted in order to fall the vicitm, unless you can push superuser.apk via the exploit and run it.
Have to give him props for trying, and like seeing that he is using linux based OS to develop on
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Youre right! Maybe he works for T-mobile and is secretely making all our phones go back to stock and unrootable. Which in turns means they will never release 2.2 hahaha. <- By the way do not take this as actual fact I know how the paranaoid are here on the forums lol

lqaddict said:
I wonder if you need to be rooted in order to fall the vicitm, unless you can push superuser.apk via the exploit and run it.
Have to give him props for trying, and like seeing that he is using linux based OS to develop on
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No, this a generic exploit within WebKit. The actual exploit itself doesn't have superuser access, it can only access what the web browser is able to access. It can't make phone calls or generate SMS messages, but it can access files like photos and whatever else is available to non-rooted apps.

I don't know why you guys think this guy is a douche. This is how it always worked. When people find security vulnerbilities, they tell the company, but the company usually doesn't move it up to the top of the list to fix. So they mention the type of security flaw there is, sends the information to the company, and sometimes even mention it at conferences. After publicly announcing it, they give the company time to fix it, otherwise it's the company's fault for not getting their ass in gear to fix the security issue.

DKYang said:
I don't know why you guys think this guy is a douche. This is how it always worked. When people find security vulnerbilities, they tell the company, but the company usually doesn't move it up to the top of the list to fix. So they mention the type of security flaw there is, sends the information to the company, and sometimes even mention it at conferences. After publicly announcing it, they give the company time to fix it, otherwise it's the company's fault for not getting their ass in gear to fix the security issue.
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I do no see how he is a douche.
Ignoring the issue does not make it disappear, and he clearly has done his work to make the issue public in hopes it gets addressed.
Releasing a code with a security hole that you have to use something to circumvent the security of the device to fix is douche (apple vs jailbreakme.com anyone)

kizer said:
What an ass. So he figures out something and now hes going to release it?
So is his intensions to piss people off or force Googles hands to fix it?
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I was paranoid by this too. My Vibrant will shackled from having sex with the web until it gets 2.2 Maybe that researcher wants them to release Froyo soon so use this to leverage against them to release ASAP?

I don't think he's a douche. I honestly want to believe that google would push carriers to be on the same OS. Just the fact that not all android phones can handle the 2.2 OS - And so people stuck with those phones and would be affected by this flaw is pretty crappy. But I really hope this makes carriers want their phones updated and running the latest and greatest. Only time will tell.

Pocketnow.com just sabataged us!

I just happened to read an article over at pocket now:
http://pocketnow.com/windows-phone/microsoft-on-hacked-windows-phone-7-and-live-services
titled: Microsoft On Hacked Windows Phone 7 And Live Services
in their vain search for headline news it seems pocketnow made it a part of their duty to have Microsoft look into us getting Live ID keys for our HD2s running Windows Phone 7. Now Microsoft is saying their going to take a hard look into this pratice. who knows what is going to happen if Microsoft is going to ban the issued keys
by the amount of mad faces you can tell i'm pissed.
wether Microsoft new about what was going on or not, pocketnow just amplified the issue.

It was strange that Pocketnow chose to push Microsoft on the issue. Microsoft seemed to be (deliberately?) ignoring the HD2-WP7 key issue. Pocketnow is just forcing them to take a position - which helps noone (except Pocketnow).
I imagine that Microsoft wont be too active in pursuing our phones. They will probably just put in place a policy to restrict new keys.

Perhaps everyone is just jealous of us & our HD2....

coolfire said:
Perhaps everyone is just jealous of us & our HD2....
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Sounds like thats the case.

link is dead anyways >.<

Ive been following pocketnow.com for years, very disappointed in them for forcing this and publishing this article.
F*CK you Anton D Nagy!!!!!
jcsy said:
link is dead anyways >.<
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http://pocketnow.com/windows-phone/microsoft-on-hacked-windows-phone-7-and-live-services
Everybody should leave a comment on the article to show how let down you feel with them/author.

TheATHEiST said:
Ive been following pocketnow.com for years, very disappointed in them for forcing this and publishing this article.
F*CK you Anton D Nagy!!!!!
http://pocketnow.com/windows-phone/microsoft-on-hacked-windows-phone-7-and-live-services
Everybody should leave a comment on the article to show how let down you feel with them/author.
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I'm with you on this one.

As long as everyone is buying from the marketplace and not bloomin well ripping apps and side loading them, Microsoft will be happy, but alas with all things people feel the need to steal from others, Android is rife with piracy...
So I would imagine Microsoft would be very pleased with HD running WP7 and activating the Live services as they can get more revenue from the marketplace without having to support our devices in anyway.
JUST BUY SOME APPS people and we will be OK.
People always seems to immediately think just because you have cracked or hacked a device it means you are a pirate, this is not true

Tards at pocketnow grrr haters! Thats what they are!
Hmm they always been apple fanboyz, but this is it!
A little sidenote, if microsoft locks us out, I'll never ever buy a phone from them again. Customers will drop like flies, let's sit this one out.

One of the only results of the article is that more people will know about being able to flash the WP7 ROM on their HD2s. Microsoft was of course aware of the ROM and why the number of people asking for keys for WP7s increased. Microsoft surely had formulated their responses and policies on the situation long before pocketnow.com contacted them.
The only other result is more people can see what kind of outfit that site is.
Most likely this will have little effect on using the ROM or obtaining keys.

Yeah, I saw that article earlier. Was surprised they would press the issue, but you know journalists, they generally have no conscience, all they want is a story. Won't be supporting or recommending pocketnow from now on.

Think as a Microfoft guy. Some retards come and ask you if you are OK that your services are being hacked. Of course you will not say that you are OK with this. It's a completely different question if you will do something about it.
Although the term "hacking" is completely wrong here. We all have legitimate WP7 keys issued by MS. He have hacked NOTHING to get Live access. Some ppl even said honestly they have a HD2. The MS representative that gave me the key never asked me about my device btw.
Just see the matter from MS point of view: YOu have 10 000 or so Windows Mobile customers that have found a way to flash WP7 to their devices. Unfortunately for you these folks can also flash Android to their devices. What would you do? Shut them down and send them to Google?

rlydiard said:
One of the only results of the article is that more people will know about being able to flash the WP7 ROM on their HD2s. Microsoft was of course aware of the ROM and why the number of people asking for keys for WP7s increased. Microsoft surely had formulated their responses and policies on the situation long before pocketnow.com contacted them.
The only other result is more people can see what kind of outfit that site is.
Most likely this will have little effect on using the ROM or obtaining keys.
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Pocketnow already has tons of articles telling people that HD2 has got WP7 now.
What they did by this article was just to get Microsoft to look into a matter which they were most likely deliberately ignoring!
Am totally disappointed by Pocketnow!

Tanmay® said:
Pocketnow already has tons of articles telling people that HD2 has got WP7 now.
What they did by this article was just to get Microsoft to look into a matter which they were most likely deliberately ignoring!
Am totally disappointed by Pocketnow!
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Yes, I am quite aware of the articles that pocketnow.com has put online about HD2s running WP7. Partly because of those articles, and because Microsoft does indeed monitor XDA-Developer posts, they were indeed aware of the port since the beginning, and they certainly were aware of why so many people have been trying to obtain keys.
I doubt that Microsoft was deliberately ignoring the situation, but had already formulated their policies. And, as another poster pointed out, how do you expect Microsoft to respond when asked by a publication about the situation?
Microsoft could have come out with a much tougher statement, but they did not, so I still maintain that the situation for those who use WP7 ROMS on the HD2s will not drastically change, and that Microsoft will not make a sudden change of course here.

MS were already looking into this. You don't get to be the biggest software company by not knowing what is going on with your business.
Everyone should just relax. I've had a few friends who have told MS that they are running WP7 on HD2 and they need an activation code. MS gave them one, no questions asked.
If MS wanted to stop us using WP7 then they would have blocked ALL services by now. The HD2 is such a small share of their market, do you think they care? Not really. More exposure for them and their OS.
Personally, I don't really care either way. It would cost MS a few bucks to actively exclude certain phones. It isn't worth their time or effort. WP7 is a new OS. Why would they want to limit exposure?
Pocketnow are in it for the money. Any news is GOOD news.....

For all the people saying that they are disappointed by PN.COM,
Here is the response from the writer:
Anton D. Nagy said:
"@Adam Bentley, @luke Flex
Thanks for the kind words!
I get it you're neither a developer with software in the Marketplace nor songwriter/artist/or part of a band with its Music up on Zune. I understand you're not even part of an OEM or carrier that builds or sells smartphones or communication services and I think you’re not part of the team that made Windows Phone 7 possible. Simply put, I don't think you're someone who earns anything from the activities above. Should I wish you that your work, whatever it is that you do, would end up hacked/plagiarized the same way someday? No, I will not!
If you think that Anton, or even pocketnow.com for that matter, can do anything to influence a company like Microsoft, you're a fool! If you think that Anton, or even pocketnow.com for that matter, brought Microsoft the terrible news that its platform and services got hacked, you're a fool again!
What I'm saying here -- and this will be in no way considered pocketnow.com’s position -- is that I don't really care about the opinions of readers like you! Not because of the "screw you" part because we're professionals, but because the words that express your inappropriate thoughts, because of the mentality. You think you deserve to have something just because it simply can be achieved or because you own an HTC HD2? You disrespect the thousands who’ve worked hard for software that runs on hardware designed and manufactured by other thousands. You disrespect your fellow community members who have legitimately bought Windows Phone 7 software running on Windows Phone 7 hardware. Last but not least, you disrespect other pocketnow.com readers that might agree with the things I said above."
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To my mind, this answer is just a kind of hypocrisy, bc I don't think Microsoft would be angry if some thousands of users would buy applications from the market, or even if some HD2 users would develop some apps (Microsoft claims that developers are needed and welcome).
In addition, remember that a lot of us (and me in particular) have bought HD2 only because it was the first phone that would have an update to WP7...
To my mind, it's just fair for us to have a port, even hacked, to WP7 !

kawazaki said:
For all the people saying that they are disappointed by PN.COM,
Here is the response from the writer:
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The tool obviously doesn't realise the 'hack' does not allow carte blanch access to any Marketplace software, but only to free apps.
Poor journalism. But I'm sure Anton/PN is going to get a few extra hits out of this.

the only ones who will benefit from it are pocketnow.com, obviously.
I suggest we don't give them the attention they so loudely cry for, because they will bring XDA down. They disrespect developers, not vice versa.

Whatever goes on, I don´t care at all.
Yes, I indeed was hoping that WP7 would be ported for our HD2. Unfortunately, MS and HTC both missed the chance to offer this upgrade officially. Just try to imagine if they would have done this: There is a big chance that some longtime WinMo users would move over to the new platform - just thanks to a trial possibility.
The thing is: I think 80% of all HD2 owners don´t flash their devices. Imagine the possible boost for WP7 if all those were offered to upgrade officially. Great customer satisfaction generates positive mouth-to-mouth advertising.
If they start to fight the "hack", I believe the opposite will happen: More former "core" WinMo "power users" than before will move on to Android and iOS, the first is more "open" and the second is nicely jailbroken, both offering a massive number of apps. The result for MS is not only negative mouth-to-mouth advertising (the worst scenario a company can suffer), but also loss of ROI since less potential users buy stuff from marketplace, less potential users decide to use paid "Live" services (such as XBox Gold membership, let alone maybe even new potential buyers of that gaming platform), etc.
MS could simply decide to stop giving codes for "unsupported" hardware. Then again, HD2 is so close to HD7 that they might consider this device as "compatible". If they are even more clever, they could offer a trial, just as many app providers do in the marketplace. I would actually be willing to pay a couple of bucks if I would decide to keep WP7 - which is not the fact as of today, mainly because the OS isn´t ready yet imho.

Mercenary hackers claim full control over Windows Phone

Read here.... http://www.wpcentral.com/mercenary-hackers-hackingteam-claim-full-control-over-windows-phone. Not sure how to feel about this??? If true then there's definately hope for unlocking more WP8 handsets yet at the same time with all the NSA crap going on and concerns about privacy and security...WTF??? Reading around various forums and sites I am actually surprised how many people are NOT interested in unlocking their devices naming security as their number one reason for switching to the WP8 platform. In all the time I've spent here on the forums, with the exception of a few shady posts by no one of any consequence, I have never seen any maliciousness in the the search for exploits and attempts to unlock devices. If anything it almost seems like a game between devs and MS/OEMS and it wouldn't surprise me one bit if some of the devs here were offered opportunities by those same entities; if not then our gain, MS's loss. However this article got me thinking about the possibilities and implications of any exploits or unlocks found and just wondering what others thought... As for my mindset....I paid for my device with hard earned cash therefore it should be mine to F up as I see fit and I will deal with the consequences like a big boy.

Microsoft buying Apple is much more plausible that what is in there.
Part of having a secret surveillance plan is to actually keep the plan secret.
I doubt the group "responsible" for this would post their achievements on the internet, provided they are supported by the government.

tonbonz said:
Read here.... http://www.wpcentral.com/mercenary-hackers-hackingteam-claim-full-control-over-windows-phone. ... As for my mindset....I paid for my device with hard earned cash therefore it should be mine to F up as I see fit and I will deal with the consequences like a big boy.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You and folk like you are in the insignificant minority of the population
There are far to many people that will quite happily blame MS / OEMs / Networks for any and all problems regardless of who actually broke it.
The other thing is said networks / OEMs don't want you arsing about with their phone, for example, ATT take great pride in being able to charge you for a service that is free, if the phone was unlocked that would stop and ATT would be out of pocket. They pull out of WP arena and rollocks your fathers uncle, MS loses market share.
it sucks, but such is life, now that MS has locked down the market place with from what I can tell is completely impervious to abuse, I doubt very much they could give a $h!t what you do to the platform and if you can unlock it, they do however care about market share which is where the networks come in...

Oh, that's pretty plausible, actually. Even if you assume it's for every device on every version of the OS, I'd still be willing to believe it. Microsoft has done well on security with WP8, hardening the OS (NT in general) over the last decade or so to remove vulns, and using pretty good sandboxing of WP8 apps to minimize attack surface. With that said, there are still items being found, and patched (at least on the PC), regularly in Windows. Some of those vulnerabilities will be present and reachable on WP8 as well, and given how slowly phone updates roll out, I wouldn't be surprised if there's a known but un-patched issue being exploited. For that matter, it could be a true zero-day - something Microsoft is completely unaware of, at least when the exploit was first used - although I think that's less likely.

dazza9075 said:
You and folk like you are in the insignificant minority of the population
There are far to many people that will quite happily blame MS / OEMs / Networks for any and all problems regardless of who actually broke it.
The other thing is said networks / OEMs don't want you arsing about with their phone, for example, ATT take great pride in being able to charge you for a service that is free, if the phone was unlocked that would stop and ATT would be out of pocket. They pull out of WP arena and rollocks your fathers uncle, MS loses market share.
it sucks, but such is life, now that MS has locked down the market place with from what I can tell is completely impervious to abuse, I doubt very much they could give a $h!t what you do to the platform and if you can unlock it, they do however care about market share which is where the networks come in...
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Click to collapse
I'm used to being the minority, in a world full of sheep I'd much rather be a wolf, but insignificant? Harsh... Of course the security of the platform is probably the biggest selling point MS had to offer the networks and with perfect timing. I'm sure it's helped increase market shares when everyone's worried about keeping their data secure. As for the marketplace, I am constantly amazed at the apps being created but use very few myself. My kid spends more time on my Lumia than I do; using the Kid's Room feature to play games. Another brilliant "security" feature and one of the first features I point out to any parent asking about the platform. Anyways, knowing the work done here and intentions behind it, seeing that some group possibly gained full access to the platform simply for the purpose of "spying" for anyone that can pay their fees kinda p***ed me off and wondered what others thoughts were...

"Mercenary hackers claim full control over Windows Phone"
and my grandpa told me he had sex with Lili Marleen... but who know... maybe has maybe not

tonbonz said:
I'm used to being the minority, in a world full of sheep I'd much rather be a wolf, but insignificant? Harsh... Of course the security of the platform is probably the biggest selling point MS had to offer the networks and with perfect timing. I'm sure it's helped increase market shares when everyone's worried about keeping their data secure. As for the marketplace, I am constantly amazed at the apps being created but use very few myself. My kid spends more time on my Lumia than I do; using the Kid's Room feature to play games. Another brilliant "security" feature and one of the first features I point out to any parent asking about the platform. Anyways, knowing the work done here and intentions behind it, seeing that some group possibly gained full access to the platform simply for the purpose of "spying" for anyone that can pay their fees kinda p***ed me off and wondered what others thoughts were...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
aye, we are significant in our world but there are a lot more numpties out there then there are of us

GoodDayToDie said:
I wouldn't be surprised if there's a known but un-patched issue being exploited..
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Click to collapse
I totally agree with you but until I see something concrete these are only words...or like I can say in Italian:
fatti, non pugnette!:laugh: (facts, no word please)

Oh, to be sure. Still, it actually gives me a little hope for finding a universal "jailbreak" hack... although I'd prefer one that isn't remotely exploitable.