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Hey guys very very important question , it's about the sar rating when we make calls . Sar represents radiation hazards to the brain and , most phones have predetermined valuethat is approved before they are sold for safety . Please can somebody do a test about this
htc hd2 running on winmo is safe but running on builds like the ones here we are not sure
i hope that the forum members and the developers for tons can find out and let us know.
Very very important !!!
im taking a guess here, but wouldn't it depend on your radio rom not the build?
can someone confirm or dispute this?
primaraly your looking at hardware such as antana and shielding. im doubtfull that diferent radio packages are going to boost things to unacceptable levels, otherwise mfg's wouldnt cook them up.
both winmo and android runs on the same radio regardless of wich one is booted.
does that make you feel more warm and fuzzy on the inside?...... or is it from to much radiation?
Once again, cell phone radiation poses absolutely no dangers to the tissues of your body.
You want to know why?
There is not enough energy in the radio waves.
There is less energy coming off of your cell phone's radio transmitter than there is coming off of your computer screen that you interpret as visible light.
Learn2highschoolphysics
enneract said:
Once again, cell phone radiation poses absolutely no dangers to the tissues of your body.
You want to know why?
There is not enough energy in the radio waves.
There is less energy coming off of your cell phone's radio transmitter than there is coming off of your computer screen that you interpret as visible light.
Learn2highschoolphysics
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's right
But if it does still, you won't die because of this radioation. It will only make you sterile if you carry your phone always near of your balls.
But then again if there are safety requirements about this than it is only
Logical to know that if a device exceeds a safe limit then it means
It could pose a health issue.
With that in mind , I hope that a test could be done to resolve the worry.
The radiation also has to with the antenna and battery consumption during
When the phone is searching for signal etc.
Thank you for the reply some of you have given.
ok, first, try educating your self before posting the same drivel in a bunch of diferent threads.
had you spent as much time searching how sar is tested as you did posting , you would have found that its tested @ the hardwares max output.
hmm... the software comes no wheres near pushing the hardware to the limit.
the radio software is the same in both WM mode and in Android mode
therefore this would lead to the conclusion that if it passed federal standards for sar emissions when run @ full hardware output, and we arnt driving it that hard, that we are at a level LOWER than what it was tested...
fariez44 said:
I hope that a test could be done to resolve the worry.
The radiation also has to with the antenna and battery consumption during
When the phone is searching for signal etc.
Thank you for the reply some of you have given.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
please fwd me your bank info, and each specific condition you would like it tested.
its not cheep
http://www.metlabs.com/Services/Wir...ywgP2vhaUCFSBugwodfX3aOw.aspx?_kk=SAR+testing
http://www.ce-mag.com/archive/03/01/miller.html
http://www.rfexposurelab.com/
Well thanks for the information , I was looking for an explanation as such
It seems you resolved my doubts and thanks once again.[/B]
Need to take care of ourselves
I keep seeing people who claim to have headaches in the morning whenever they use specific builds. We also know some builds provide better cell signal and wifi capabilities. I strongly guess there is a difference between radiation levels of different builds.
If someone leads us to measure the SAR levels of builds under this forum to get an "XDA approval", we can surely all donate to her/him. Then we also can prefer the builds acording to their radiation levels.
Someone with knowledge please help us to determine:
- methods of measurement
- rules and standards of approving the builds
- safety classification according to SAR levels
Radiation is no joke. We are the only big enough developer community to provide this standardization to custom builds.
Radio waves are not ionizing, and thus do not carry enough energy to pose any danger whatsoever.
It is physically impossible.
enneract said:
Radio waves are not ionizing, and thus do not carry enough energy to pose any danger whatsoever.
It is physically impossible.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The effect of mobile phone radiation have been studied by a lot of scientists. There are thousands of articles about this topic. I agree that there are contradicting results but no single one claims as you said: "it is physically impossible" Or no scientist refused to do the research assuming that the high school physics is enough to finish the argument.
In fact a lot of researchers came into the conclusion that there is a corelation between cancer and mobile phone radiation.[1,2,3]
It has been basicly studied for the short and long term hazards. Long term hazards have not been completely studied yet due to the short history of word wide mobile phone usage. Short term hazards have been proven such as decrease in cognitive functions and prolonged response times. [4]
1. http://journals.lww.com/epidem/page...=2004&issue=11000&article=00003&type=abstract
2. http://oem.bmj.com/cgi/reprint/64/9/626.pdf
3. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19285839
4. http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/...ionid=69BCBB4C4AC1B054C0B953A974547C77.d03t01
baybenbey said:
I keep seeing people who claim to have headaches in the morning whenever they use specific builds
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Id bet that has wayyyy more to do with screen settings, size, brightness resolution refresh rate comparative brightness of the room( dark room more eye strain) than radiation.
Take two or three flights and you'll already have been exposed more than a small transmitter will give in its lifetime.
I have to admit I keep getting headaches with some phones when having long phonecalls. I'm sure it has nothing to do with the screen (always off during calls) or heating up of the phone (all about the same temperature while in use). In the past I would have laughed, but since I paid attention on when and where those headaches started, I'm pretty sure it has something to do with the phone radiation. Yes, the general radiation levels are pretty low, but still, they are concentrated at our heads and some of us might be more receptive than others.
First I noticed it with my old HTC Trinity. When I moved to an area with generally low reception, I kept getting headaches during phonecalls, while not having them in other areas where the reception was fine. Those headaches always started on the side of the head, where I held the phone. When switching to a bluetooth headset (which has much lower radiation levels) the headaches were gone.
Another example was the Nokia N73 which I had to use for a job I did. I never had a phone before and after which had such an excellent reception. Areas where I couldn't even get a signal with other phones, were no problem for the N73. I could make and receive phone calls without any problems (1-2 bars). For 3 days I had the phone around my neck with a lanyard. So it was resting on my chest all the time. And I can say for a fact that I got a weird feeling at exact that point. When removing the phone from the lanyard or replacing it with a dummy unit or switching it off, it stopped ...
There are various other phone where I can reproduce that. Unfortunatly.
I'm pretty sure too, that different builds have different radiation levels and the radio rom is not the only thing affecting those. When running WP7 on the HD2 I got headaches very fast (after 5 minutes) being on the phone. With Android (at least the ROM I use) and WM 6.5 those headaches only start after 1+ hour on the phone and even then much less. The radio rom might limit the maximum output, but the specific reception control still comes from within the OS.
So since I seem to be pretty sensitive on this, I'm cool with Android on the HD2. I don't get any more headaches than with Windows Mobile 6.5 (or other "low-SAR-phones"). However with WP7 on the HD2 I had serious problems having long conversations over the phone, comparable to my experience with the HTC Trinity in low reception areas. But I don't think that any of those levels are life threatening - it's just an inconvinience (at least for me). But being a gadget fan and geek that's a little bit of a letdown, having to admit that those things might actually be harmful in one way or another.
baybenbey said:
The effect of mobile phone radiation have been studied by a lot of scientists. There are thousands of articles about this topic. I agree that there are contradicting results but no single one claims as you said: "it is physically impossible" Or no scientist refused to do the research assuming that the high school physics is enough to finish the argument.
In fact a lot of researchers came into the conclusion that there is a corelation between cancer and mobile phone radiation.[1,2,3]
It has been basicly studied for the short and long term hazards. Long term hazards have not been completely studied yet due to the short history of word wide mobile phone usage. Short term hazards have been proven such as decrease in cognitive functions and prolonged response times. [4]
1. http://journals.lww.com/epidem/page...=2004&issue=11000&article=00003&type=abstract
2. http://oem.bmj.com/cgi/reprint/64/9/626.pdf
3. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19285839
4. http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/...ionid=69BCBB4C4AC1B054C0B953A974547C77.d03t01
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yet, every study focusing on the overall cancer rate in comparison to cell phone adoption has found no correlation. There are numerous experimental problems with actually studying the supposed effect directly (in fact, there was a new york times article earlier this week written by an oncologist enumerating those problems, and why the research, either way, on this subject is fundamentally flawed).
However, the fact remains that if you are scared of this latest nonsensical boogeyman, you should also avoid exposure to all EM radiation of radio and higher energies - you know, radio waves, microwaves, infrared and visible light - goodluck!
I have to admit I keep getting headaches with some phones when having long phonecalls. I'm sure it has nothing to do with the screen (always off during calls) or heating up of the phone (all about the same temperature while in use). In the past I would have laughed, but since I paid attention on when and where those headaches started, I'm pretty sure it has something to do with the phone radiation. Yes, the general radiation levels are pretty low, but still, they are concentrated at our heads and some of us might be more receptive than others.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Obviously there is no way that you can get a headache from listening to a speaker placed a few millimeters from your ear for an extended period of time. Obviously, no bloody idiot would think that.
Re-read my post ;-) the speaker has nothing to do with the headaches...
Jeez this whole discussion sounds like one of those stupid news lead-ins like 'find out whats killing your kids... ...right after the break'
Surely there are worthier things to worry about than the radiation from cel phones. Just tune in to Fox News, you'll find plenty of ridiculous crap to worry about. Ask yourself this : if you know for sure that when you're 70 you'll have cancer from using cel phones all your life, will that be enough to make you stop using them now? I'll take the cancer over going back to pagers and pay-phones.
Sent from my HTC HD2 using XDA App
What's the problem discussing possible downsites of customizing our devices? It's not black and white, you know. We can discuss this stuff, and use phones accordingly to our findings and knowledge.
And as said before: It's not (only) about cancer (or any other long term damage this might cause). There are obviously short term effects for some people, why not try minimizing those?
I think it's no difference between WinMo or android builds radiation because the hardware it's the same whit its limitations....even if this wasn't true the livel of sar are not so high to damage our brain(it's possible some biological effect)...so take it easy...only God knows...perhaps
It is really weird that some people here, agrssively oppose individuals who are sharing their concerns by stating some scientific findings about the hazards of SAR. What is the purpose of trying to insult and silence people on the discussion of such a potential risk? Weird!
In the previous references I shared, more than one study of 10+ year of mobile phone usage statistics point out an increased incidence of brain cancer. There are many studies with this result.
And secondly, I found few articles which completely refuses the hazards and defends the safety of mobile phone radiation by agressively opposing(like some people here) the related scientific data. Most of them are suspiciously published from Finland(Country of Nokia). These articles are written in an ideologic and biased manner and falsify all the findings which prove the cancer corelation as nocebo effect or false positive. Or they study the effects of SAR on skin epitheliel cells(relatively resistant against radiation) instead of brain glial cells(sensitive to radiation) and -no surprise- in the end there is no serious harmfull effect... These articles urge to come into the conclusion that SAR is as lovely as blessing of God! Take a look at the discussion section of wikipedia on this topic. All editors complain biased and frequent editing of the page by someone who is adding suggestive sentences to defend the safety of SAR. Hmm...
According to some people here, by looking at the relative wavlength and frequency, microwaves are supposed to be less harmfull than visible light. In fact we can cook a chicken in a microwave oven but not in a sunny beach. SAR can not be found safe by comparing only wavelength/frequency. Who tries to do that obviously misses 3 major points which are:
- distance from source
- intensity of rays
- duration of exposure.
Anyway, even the fanatic SAR defenders in scientific community do not defend it by such a point of view.
Just a normal man thinking in a high voice!
Ok so i had a touch screen failure of my HD2 during usage of Android build; maybe it's a coincidence maybe not! But what annoys me is that i was preserving it nearly intact: never fell, no water, no heat, no cold, no underclocking or overclocking (except that smartass governor dims cpu to minimum by default when screen is off)
Fixed it in the end and cost me nearly 1/4 the price of the phone (120$)!
So let's face it! HD2 was DESIGNED for Winmo 6.5 and not for android! And please nobody try to convince me that it doesn't have any side effects!
Well, it's like using diesel oil for a regular gasoline car! There has to be some disorders! Or using a BMW engine on a Peugeot! Maybe the chassis will handle it but not the cooling system or the clutch or the wheels or etc....
So let's begin with some of the concerns that i think of and excuse me if some questions look silly, i'm neither a technician nor a developer! (i know many of them have some basic answers, but here i'm questioning even these answers):
1-About touch screen:
Well HD2 screen is capable of 128k colors if i remember good while android GENERATES or produce 16M colors; couldn't that have affected the pixels of the screen itself?! Couldn't that be warming these pixels to higher rates than normal rates that this screen can withstand?! Maybe the system is obliging in a way or another the pixels to display those colors while they can't physically so the are failing at the end?!
(I simulate it to overclocking of the CPU: making the CPU run at higher speeds than the original ones that it was designed to work under will make it fail in the end after some time)
(and please don't tell me this has nothing to do with the OS, bcz let's not forget that the screen was limited to 65k colors in winmo while it is capable of 128k colors, so OS does matter)
2-About CPU/battery/cell temperature:
I couldn't separate those 3 characteristics coz they are highly related! (and even related to the screen )
If we overclock ==> cell temp increase
If we underclock ==> cell temp decrease
And both are bad logically for the phone, because simply those smart engineers at HTC that designed the phone knew what were they doing; that's why they kept CPU out of reach of children p us) because it will regulates the temp of the cell phone automatically to optimal values!
Anyway, who said that optimal values for normal HD2 (winmo) with it's 64or128k colors screen are the same optimal values for an android phone with it's 16M colors screen!?
So my touchscreen failed suddenly while in android, couldn't the smartass governor was the reason behind it bcz it dropped the cell phone temp to less than 26deg in idle and something in the screen failed/broke?!?
What about the cooling system/ventilation in the phone?!?!
Maybe because of its high power consumption (thus temperature) an android phone is designed to ventilate/cool the system in a manner that a winmo can't do like our beloved HD2!?! Maybe that's why our phones gets so hot during heavy use!?
Many other questions come to my mind...Just wanted to discuss some points, and evidently many other points that you will share to see if using android on our beloved HD2 is safe after all or not...
Cheers
I've read about your touchscreen failure in another thread, and while I'm very sorry for you, how can you be sure it's because of Android? I'm not saying it's not possible, but just running an OS during a failure doesn't mean the OS caused it, I can imagine some people have had touchscreen failures on WinMo too.
Just trying to keep things a little in perspective here.
1. The screen is capable of 16M colors (not 128k). WinMo only supports 65k, and I believe Android does at this point too. Pixels are unrelated to the touch sensitive part anyway.
2. Overclocking can indeed have serious consequences for your CPU (and possible surrounding parts too), and should *always* be done with caution (better to refrain from it at all actually, the small performance gain isn't worth it). I believe all kernel devs indicate the possible and imminent danger of overclocking.
Underclocking can't be a problem though, that's obvious. Extreme cooling can destroy parts, but heating it up less than usual is still not at all the same as cooling something down.
Again, I'm sorry for what happened to your phone, but I think you're somewhat overreacting.
Edit: a more likely explanation for an Android-related failure would be that your CPU somehow went insane and produced too high temperatures, breaking stuff down. This isn't typical behaviour though, and can almost always be prevented.
Life Engineer said:
Just a normal man thinking in a high voice!
Ok so i had a touch screen failure of my HD2 during usage of Android build; maybe it's a coincidence maybe not! But what annoys me is that i was preserving it nearly intact: never fell, no water, no heat, no cold, no underclocking or overclocking (except that smartass governor dims cpu to minimum by default when screen is off)
So let's face it! HD2 was DESIGNED for Winmo 6.5 and not for android! And please nobody try to convince me that it doesn't have any side effects!
Well, it's like using diesel oil for a regular gasoline car! There has to be some disorders! Or using a BMW engine on a Peugeot! Maybe the chassis will handle it but not the cooling system or the clutch or the wheels or etc....
So let's begin with some of the concerns that i think of and excuse me if some questions look silly, i'm neither a technician nor a developer! (i know many of them have some basic answers, but here i'm questioning even these answers):
1-About touch screen:
Well HD2 screen is capable of 128k colors if i remember good while android GENERATES or produce 16M colors; couldn't that have affected the pixels of the screen itself?! Couldn't that be warming these pixels to higher rates than normal rates that this screen can withstand?! Maybe the system is obliging in a way or another the pixels to display those colors while they can't physically so the are failing at the end?!
(I simulate it to overclocking of the CPU: making the CPU run at higher speeds than the original ones that it was designed to work under will make it fail in the end after some time)
(and please don't tell me this has nothing to do with the OS, bcz let's not forget that the screen was limited to 65k colors in winmo while it is capable of 128k colors, so OS does matter)
2-About CPU/battery/cell temperature:
I couldn't separate those 3 characteristics coz they are highly related! (and even related to the screen )
If we overclock ==> cell temp increase
If we underclock ==> cell temp decrease
And both are bad logically for the phone, because simply those smart engineers at HTC that designed the phone knew what were they doing; that's why they kept CPU out of reach of children p us) because it will regulates the temp of the cell phone automatically to optimal values!
Anyway, who said that optimal values for normal HD2 (winmo) with it's 64or128k colors screen are the same optimal values for an android phone with it's 16M colors screen!?
So my touchscreen failed suddenly while in android, couldn't the smartass governor was the reason behind it bcz it dropped the cell phone temp to less than 26deg in idle and something in the screen failed/broke?!?
What about the cooling system/ventilation in the phone?!?!
Maybe because of its high power consumption (thus temperature) an android phone is designed to ventilate/cool the system in a manner that a winmo can't do like our beloved HD2!?! Maybe that's why our phones gets so hot during heavy use!?
Many other questions come to my mind...Just wanted to discuss some points, and evidently many other points that you will share to see if using android on our beloved HD2 is safe after all or not...
Cheers
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The "TOUCH SCREEN" has nothing to do with the CPU, therefore no amount of overclocking will damage your "touch screen".
Has your pc monitor ever got damaged by overclocking your pc's cpu? NO
Just because your screen stopped working in Android doesn't mean that it was caused by Android.
The GPU driver would limit Android or any other OS from forcing 16m colours on a 128k screen therefore no damage would be caused to the screen itself because it is limited by the driver. The driver tells Android (or any other OS) which resolution and colour depth is supported and will only support that. Just because Android is capable of 16m doesn't mean it will force that colour depth.
This was simply a manufacturing defect in your screen and could have happened at any time, it could have happened in WinMo but just happened to happen while your phone was booted into Android.
Also be aware that the screen is TFT, and there is a separate layer called the digitizer above the actual TFT screen which senses the touch. They are separate components, therefore the screen itself isn't a touch screen.
if devs or experience users can post wats the maximum temp and ma a hd2 device could take that would realy help us alot to see if a built is working normaly or pushing our hardware excessively..mayb juz a gauge like say over 36 degress is a risk or sumting like that..info like this will realy help us users
Stop overreacting, its just a hardware failure, just get it fixed and youre good to go.
derycklong said:
Stop overreacting, its just a hardware failure, just get it fixed and youre good to go.
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Click to collapse
Man no one is overreacting! I fixed it (maybe you didn't read the thread after all) and i am willing to use android again!!! However, if we shacked our brains a bit to see if android has any down effects on our cells, it wouldn't be such a bad thing!!! Nothing to loose, and maybe many things to win after all!
I wanted to put down a whole story on how stupid your comparison's are and how you should leave the thinking about this stuff to ppl who actually know what they are talking about.
Android wont destroy your hardware its a bare bone operating system with custom drivers to run on our HD2. Software imput cant realy damage your hardware unless your overclocking.
Take it from ppl who know what they are talking about seeing you seem to be clueless
shuntje said:
I wanted to put down a whole story on how stupid your comparison's are and how you should leave the thinking about this stuff to ppl who actually know what they are talking about.
Android wont destroy your hardware its a bare bone operating system with custom drivers to run on our HD2. Software imput cant realy damage your hardware unless your overclocking.
Take it from ppl who know what they are talking about seeing you seem to be clueless
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No need to be rude! That's what i said in my post, i'm not a technician or a developer, i just have some concerns/questions and i need to be insured!
Besides, i am pretty sure that many others have many other concerns/questions!
That's why i titled it a "discussion"!
So if you are ready for a good discussion welcome; if you are not or think yourself much highly educated to discuss such silly ideas you can keep you mouth shut like many people did!
Regards
Software just doesn't work like that.
If any, the only side-effects that I can see is that we are using the Hardware Buttons more often, therefore they might fail earlier using Android instead of WinMobile.
The car comparison isnt really good.. Its more like when you buy a computer from the market with preinstalled windows os and put a linux on it. It wont kill your pc. It may not work as intended because of driver issues, but if set properly, there should be no problem. And as far as i know, its not that easy to overheat a cpu, because there is a hardware security built in, so your mobo knows what to do. It will just shut down. Sure,you can have bad luck and your cpu can die. I dont overclock my HD2 (only for benchmarking maybe), but i concider myself as a hardcore pc overclocker (like 15 years now), so i am aware of the potential risks and know what i am talking about
I agree with Greg on this one
Hardware is hardware on a computer..
If the correct software is written for it it will run.
I.e i run emulators on android and thats emulating the 68000 chip set no problems there.
But most damge you will cause to your phone is over clocking the CPU until it dies..
Reminds me when used to run windows 3.1 on my old AMiga
If this puts your mind at rest and stops people flaming.
No your touch screen failure was unrelated to Android. The cpu temps and screen res would not have been related. Had you had cpu or screen res/pixel related issues your symptoms would have different.
There are some risks to android, the worst of them being imho your battery going flat when your desperately trying to phone for a lift because the trains and buses have stopped and it's bloody cold outside (as I found out last week). However what I'd suggest is rather then non-devs making uneducated guesses we leave threads like this to the devs who can state specifically what the risks are.
Well, the worst that can happen, is killing the phone. happend to me. I started android, went outside the room for a minute and when I came back, the phone was dead and awfully hot. Fortunately htc repaired it ...
greg17477 said:
The car comparison isnt really good.. Its more like when you buy a computer from the market with preinstalled windows os and put a linux on it. It wont kill your pc. It may not work as intended because of driver issues, but if set properly, there should be no problem. And as far as i know, its not that easy to overheat a cpu, because there is a hardware security built in, so your mobo knows what to do. It will just shut down. Sure,you can have bad luck and your cpu can die. I dont overclock my HD2 (only for benchmarking maybe), but i concider myself as a hardcore pc overclocker (like 15 years now), so i am aware of the potential risks and know what i am talking about
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Now that´s a nice comparison... but still, the operating system as a whole, means including hard- and software, is a highly complex entity.
Concerning LC displays, you can actually kill them if the power on sequence (eg. the voltage), which drives the display, is wrong. Depending on the display, there is a certain range of voltage which is fine, but below or higher still can produce problems or even permanent damage. Please don´t forget the complex structure of the LCD´s in our HD2´s.
To concur with some of the above posts, I have a computer that I have running Windows 7 on. I have also run XP and Vista on it.
Additionally I run Linux on it.
And if that were not enough, I am brave enough to admit I run OSX on it.
None of these affect any aspect of my hardware.
Now I do believe I do not have a large enough power supply to run my two hard drives, two optical, dual video cards and pro audio card. But that is a hardware issue, as the OP's issue clearly was hardware failure.
And yes, usage does affect computer/mobile life, no matter the OS it is running.
Life Engineer said:
No need to be rude! That's what i said in my post, i'm not a technician or a developer, i just have some concerns/questions and i need to be insured!
Besides, i am pretty sure that many others have many other concerns/questions!
That's why i titled it a "discussion"!
So if you are ready for a good discussion welcome; if you are not or think yourself much highly educated to discuss such silly ideas you can keep you mouth shut like many people did!
Regards
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Again you stated in your first post dont try and convince me that it was not android that killed my toutch screen. So thats why i was rude ppl who say stuff like that in a opening post while saying you want a discussion is just useless.
winmobile screen failure
if this were any assurance to go by, here's my story: I had a screen failure of my hd2 back in the time when I was running it with windows mobile only - it simply would not respond to touch at all.. fortunately, htc has repaired it and I've been assured that such problems might happen to some handsets from the first months of production... my screen (or was it digitizer) was apparently replaced by a newer version/model... Since then everything has been running very smoothly on my hd2, and I've been testing all sorts of android versions available on this forum.. no problems with the screen or anything whatsoever...
Your concern are not logical to begin with. First of all: Android is a piece of software, that runs on top of Windows Mobile. It won't change anything. It is self containing. So it's like any other App you downloaded from the Windows Marketplace. Secondly: The gamut of Android or WinMo has nothing to do with what the LCD is really able to produce. If you turn down Windows 7 16bit Colordepth, you'll only get 16bit. If you crank it up to 32bit and your monitor is only able to handle 16bit, than you'll see 16bit colors. No pixel will overheat. And the last point: Underclocking won't damage you CPU. It will even increase the lifespan of it, because it does not have to process as many inputs and outputs within each second. If you just run Winmo, it is much colder than using an app.
It is just a hardwarefailure, nothing more. Happened to all of us at least once.
NessD said:
Android is a piece of software, that runs on top of Windows Mobile. It won't change anything. It is self containing. So it's like any other App you downloaded from the Windows Marketplace.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wrong.
/Two cents,
My phone’s touchscreen broke while using Android. I eventually found my “Back” key is somehow interfering with the touch, and now when it happens I need to press the key many many times to stop it jamming the screen’s input. Very annoying but luckily not so serious to need replacing (yet).
As stated above, I think hardware-wise the biggest issue with Android is that you probably will use your buttons more, and as your device is likely to be over a year old, it’s possible you’ll see these give way more. But *shrug* what can you do? Every hardware has a shelf-life. And my hardware fault may well have occurred just as easily on Android.
//Edit: *On Windows Mobile
Hey guys,
Recently I have been seeing companies releasing devices for Android that are not phones e.g.
Android USB Sticks:
techland.time.com/2012/05/18/pc-in-your-pocket-74-android-stick-goes-on-sale/
or more recently a game console:
kickstarter.com/projects/ouya/ouya-a-new-kind-of-video-game-console
I'm in University now studying Electrical Engineering and I've had an interest in electronics since I was young, so now I thought it was possible for me to design my own device. But so far my only luck with getting anywhere was drafting designs of the device and finding development boards online. Sure i could start off with development boards to test software (which i'm planning to do) but I am quite lost as to where I should go next. For example where to I get a manufacturer to produce my device or where to purchase a processor/motherboard that is custom designed for my project.
It would be really great if someone could point me in the right direction,
Scott
that's an ambitious project, I've just finished 2 degrees in EE and in the long term i'm looking to do similiar projects, but right now it is beyond my capabilities. But what i have done is buy a very cheap dev kit from STmicroelectronics with their ARM m4 chip onboard. (STM32F4)
this chip should be powerful enough to get started on and all the pins are broken out, plus the device includes a programmer and is powered over usb.
It was less than €20 but is still sat in its box as I've a lot to learn before cracking it open.
Have you any experience with RTOS for ARM, Keil offer a free trial version of their well respected uVision MDK software, it supports the above board directly and removes the need to configure a tool chain etc. Personally i'm trying to get eclipse on ubuntu to program it bit Keil uVision will allow me to blink LED's etc so long as my program is under 4Kb.
I too am only starting down this project but i hope the little i know has been of some help.
As for custom devices, well thats a whole other ball game, you will need to make out a schematic, then a board layout, then gerber files. After that you need a small run on a pick and place / reflow line. It's very rare these work out first time round, attention has to be paid to details like noise sinking, pull up resistors, matching logic levels and optically isolating external devices etc.
It's great that you are looking beyond your course material, I've learned much more from personal geekery rather than just taking notes from a lecturer. Anything you do outside the course will benefit you in a better degree at the end.
I've never been designing device from scratch, and I'm also just first grade student. Anyway I could imagine how this might look for small company or single person:
1) Decide what do you want to build-up. Easiest todo is custom dev-board, it can be always redesigned and packed into tablet case. The hardest to-do is mobile phone, and it's nearly impossible to create such thing due to high level of embedding everything, and need to sign pretty serious agreements with RF CPU (and other things like transceivers, antennas, duplexers) supplier like Infineon or Qualcomm.
2) Think what main components you'll need, like LPDDR, SoC (CPU), PMIC (SoC manufacturer usually recommend PMICs to be used and provide reference board schemas for using both), battery fuel gauge, charging controller (both might be built into PMIC, depends on model), screen+touchscreen (there are dozens of such, one might want to decide its size already, but in case of dev-board like build it usually can be replaced by some smaller/bigger with small HW modifications or without modifications at all), sensors like gyro, compass, pressure, light, whatever.
3) Search through suppliers websites and decide what models of ICs you want to use (I'd pick only open hardware), order engineering samples and get reference schemas, rather start from SoC(OMAP4460 for eg.)+PMIC pair, then decide about the rest.
4) Don't forget about extension slots like USB ports, DC supply, serial converters, whatsoever.
5) Start designing PCB board. IMO it's impossible for begginer to project any usable PCB for embedded system, I'm begginer and I'm failing with simplest boost HF DC/DC converters (like 10-20 parts on board), while such board would have thousands of elements on it, and multi layer board to fit it everything in some rational size.
6) Find company that will make prototype for you - they should make board + solder all the components you provide them - one with no professional (and very, very expensive) soldering stations is not able to solder BGA components at home.
7) Test it out.
Relatively, assuming that main components are free engineering samples, this might be not so money-expensive way to create some useful stuff. But for sure it's very, very time expensive, and begginer alone will nearly for sure fail.
//edit:
I just re-read my post and figured it might be pretty demotivating. I'm not saying it's impossible, but I'd suggest you to start from something easier - ARM dev board is the thing you need. As Quiggers stated above.
Just noticed these - cheap and powerful dev boards:
http://wiki.xbmc.org/index.php?title=Allwinner_A10#Other
Custom design
I'm looking to do the same, has this worked for you? I'm looking to build a custom android based mobile device as the original poster. I haven't had any look finding the correct electrical or device engineer to provide me any assistance. Are you available to assist?
Quiggers said:
that's an ambitious project, I've just finished 2 degrees in EE and in the long term i'm looking to do similiar projects, but right now it is beyond my capabilities. But what i have done is buy a very cheap dev kit from STmicroelectronics with their ARM m4 chip onboard. (STM32F4)
this chip should be powerful enough to get started on and all the pins are broken out, plus the device includes a programmer and is powered over usb.
It was less than €20 but is still sat in its box as I've a lot to learn before cracking it open.
Have you any experience with RTOS for ARM, Keil offer a free trial version of their well respected uVision MDK software, it supports the above board directly and removes the need to configure a tool chain etc. Personally i'm trying to get eclipse on ubuntu to program it bit Keil uVision will allow me to blink LED's etc so long as my program is under 4Kb.
I too am only starting down this project but i hope the little i know has been of some help.
As for custom devices, well thats a whole other ball game, you will need to make out a schematic, then a board layout, then gerber files. After that you need a small run on a pick and place / reflow line. It's very rare these work out first time round, attention has to be paid to details like noise sinking, pull up resistors, matching logic levels and optically isolating external devices etc.
It's great that you are looking beyond your course material, I've learned much more from personal geekery rather than just taking notes from a lecturer. Anything you do outside the course will benefit you in a better degree at the end.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Technexion
I have used OMAP3530 CPU. The TAO3530 is a good starting point and you can get a Tsunami board.
s8500 board with tablet touchscreen
hi dudes,
i have an old wave s8500 but the screen is broken. and i have an old tablet screen 7" from herotab8/dropad8.
can i use the tablet screen with the s8500 board? is not drivers necessary for the touchscreen? and where will i get the drivers?
and do i not need the datasheets of the pins to connect?
)
What we REALLY need is for someone to make a SoC that's basically like the one in the Raspberry Pi, but substitutes a FPGA for the GPU that's big enough to re-implement GPU functionality... long after the chip has left the fab & gotten soldered onto an open-ended generic ARM stick with no specific purpose, and thus manages to officially avoid getting infected by DRM-mandated licensing terms (ie, anything *officially* licensed to support h.264 or HDMI) that keep making totally open drivers nearly impossible. After all, if the drivers were 100% open source, there's no way they can stop you from commenting out the part responsible for implementing Cinavia, or lying to endpoint devices (like your home theater amp) about HDCP compliance
To deflect infringement claims, a company that made Android boards from the FPGA-equipped SoCs could make it with a soldered-on DVI port instead of HDMI (HDMI connectors are encumbered by viral licensing, DVI isn't), and put a reference design on their website for a wacky octopus cable that used the DVI-A pins to output unbuffered 3-bit pseudo-VGA, and used the remaining pins as a high-density breakout connector for a bunch of half-duplex RS-485 ports and GPIO lines that just *happened* to use DVI/HDMI logic levels
Of course, you'd never be able to legally sell a product based upon that board to end users in the US with the taboo technologies supported "out of the box", but other companies outside the US not subject to our self-inflicted wackiness could, and hopefully WOULD, buy enough of those boards to drive the price down enough to make them cheap for American hobbyists to buy on eBay and use for our own guerrilla Android-powered hardware projects.
In theory, the Xilinx Zynq 7000 series sort of does this... but at the moment, they're so ungodly expensive, you could almost buy a half-dozen Nexus 7 tablets for the price of their Android-capable dev board.
sounds great dude
Nice
Nice post
Hardware for Android D
Its not even turning on now...guess i will have to take it to a computer shop now, are you sure it has to be major things like "dead hard drive to a burned up chip to a bad motherboard."?
I'm just looking to be pointed in the right general direction here.
How would I go about hooking up an LCD and touch panel to an Android board (Raspberry PI or something similar). This is for an embedded device.
Something like a Hannstar HSD062IDW1
sbarrow said:
I'm just looking to be pointed in the right general direction here.
How would I go about hooking up an LCD and touch panel to an Android board (Raspberry PI or something similar). This is for an embedded device.
Something like a Hannstar HSD062IDW1
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hey, most of these ARM dev boards have raw LCD headers. If you're an electronics designer then you can go design a PCB to do things like level shift those bits and maybe convert those parallel signals to something else (LVDS or HDMI or watever). But from what I understand, you already have a video out in the form of HDMI and svideo. Some of us here at ArcDatum have done embedded systems research on a whole bunch of ARM boards (BeagleBoard, Pandaboard, the obscure ODROID-X) and almost all of them should have LCD headers. As for touch screens, that's more difficult. Chances are you'll have to use GPIOs or find a screen with HDMI input and USB output for touch sensing. Otherwise you'll have to design an touch screen input/output driver (which actually isn't that hard once you know how.....finding out how is the difficult part since so many of the chips they use have little or no documentation).
You might be in luck with iPhone screens. I personally have heard rumors of people reverse engineering the screen signals and driving them.
Edit: So i looked at your Hannstar link. Looks like you have a 10.5V LED backlight. So u'll have to drive that separately; that's easy enough. As for the actual signals. Looks like the pinouts you have all the RGB 8bit per color channels as well as your power stuff, ground stuff, and your clock inputs all of which can come from either your LCD header on ur RPi (if it has one; i know the BeagleBoard-XM has them) or an external power supply (for Vcc etc). Note you should tie all grounds together in many cases. As for the other random signals you will have to figure out if they're necessary to connect to something (Even if it's ground) or if you can leave them floating. Watch out for your voltage levels and how much current the RGB signals on the display will sink. Likely case is you have to do a level shift from something like 1.8V logic to 3.3V logic or something like that. When you're picking your IC to do that level shifting, also be very aware that the IC has to be able to change from 0 to 3.3V fast enough. You will have to verify that within one clock cycle, the slew rate of every pin (aka each bit for the RGB channels) is high enough to change from a high value to low or vice versa before the next clock edge comes along. If not you're data will be considered corrupt or just completely invalid.
Edit2: Your title states that you're trying to make this work with Android. I think in fact you are trying to drive the LCD with the System on a Chip on the RPi. Depending on the SoC and kernel, you might have to enable the LCD header pinouts in the kernel. Don't quote me on this though. I could be totally bull****ting you. My GUESS is that the same signals that go to the HDMI chip go to the header and in fact when using the header, you're just pulling the logic of those same signal lines (which also means you have to be extra careful of the current you're sourcing from those lines)
I wish to understand your motivation.
There are plenty of cheap Android tablets available with LCD touch screen. Now instead of trying to use one of these you want to get inferior "WhateverBerry" and engineer LCD interface + software stack etc spending your time and money.
Am I correct describing your intention?
Also I am not sure that Android is a good fit for embedded development which is mostly applied to some type of real-time controllers. It is not real-time OS.
If your want to build quickly an embedded controller with LCD touch you can get it done using Arduino boards. There are few LCD modules with touch capabilities available but with very poor documentation. It will require some work but it is feasible to achieve in a few days. It would cost you about $100 in components including Arduino and LCD shield and software is free.
Good luck!
sbarrow said:
I'm just looking to be pointed in the right general direction here.
How would I go about hooking up an LCD and touch panel to an Android board (Raspberry PI or something similar). This is for an embedded device.
Something like a Hannstar HSD062IDW1
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Adapt0r said:
I wish to understand your motivation.
There are plenty of cheap Android tablets available with LCD touch screen. Now instead of trying to use one of these you want to get inferior "WhateverBerry" and engineer LCD interface + software stack etc spending your time and money.
Am I correct describing your intention?
Also I am not sure that Android is a good fit for embedded development which is mostly applied to some type of real-time controllers. It is not real-time OS.
If your want to build quickly an embedded controller with LCD touch you can get it done using Arduino boards. There are few LCD modules with touch capabilities available but with very poor documentation. It will require some work but it is feasible to achieve in a few days. It would cost you about $100 in components including Arduino and LCD shield and software is free.
Good luck!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree with this, for the most part. Although theres no reason his application wouldnt be better with Android. What if theyre making some sort of consumer friendly appliance. Android wud be a great place to start. Arduinos wud be good for tiny applications but if they want anything pretty it wont have enough horse power.
Also Im not sure how RTOS fits into this. Sure Android isnt an RTOS, but ur phone is Android and thats an embedded system too. Just because it isnt deterministic doesnt mean it isnt suited for embedded. Just go look at basically any of the Texas Instruments ARM based android/linux dev boards.
Anyway back to the topic at hand. If you want a high powered device then try a BeagleBoard with a third party LCD attachment. It wont be cheap, you would basically have an android tablet only itd be for development (and I mean product development, not just software development). But if you dont need 700+mghz of 32 bit addressing lol, then yes go with a much cheaper arduino and lcd.
Edit: Look at this, I think you'll like it (its an all in one ARM development board):
e2e.ti.com/group/universityprogram/educators/w/wiki/2252.am335x-starter-kit.aspx?sp_rid_pod4=MTk2NzAwNDYzODgS1&sp_mid_pod4=40798754
Also I should clarify Arduinos are a 'cheaper' solution, not a 'cheap' solution. Arduinos are not cheap for the amount of processing power u get and they are almost never suited for LCD applications (but there are a few).
Sent from my SGH-I747M using xda app-developers app
I am glad to have this discussion, it helps to clarify choices we make and avoid waste of time.
RTOS is needed if high rate data acquisition is the core application. If time uncertainty of Android apps execution is tolerable then it might be a good choice considering great UI and communication capabilities.
A number of projects utilize commercial Android hardware with external Bluetooth or USB accessory/ host. In this configuration external accessory acquires and stores data in a buffer, Android terminal reads this data buffer and then does data processing and visualization if necessary.
This combination looks the most efficient since it provides great flexibility with minimal resources.
Low price of Raspberry PI and good marketing attracted a lot of people but usability of this board is very limited. You get what you paid for. It is underpowered for modern Linux and Android, does not have ADC, not suitable for low power (battery) applications. Originally, its main purpose was declared to make learning of programming languages more accessible.
Cheers!
screen
hello Folks,
i even have a broken tablet, but the touchscreen is still ok.
and i still have a samsung wave s8500 with broken screen but it still running.
is there any solution how i can connect the 7 inch screen with the wave?
the 7 inch screen is a mid tablet dropad/haipad.
is there any link to hardware manuall..
and where can i get the driver of the mid?
thanks in advance
Samsung Galaxy Tab 2 7" to LCD
is ther anyone trying connect samsung galaxy tab 2 7" to LCD
or it is imposible.... (
Hi,
I am sorry if this is the wrong forum, I don't know enough to put it else where. I have a GMC full sized van. My DIN opening is actually larger than 7", I could fit an 8" screen in there if I wanted. I also have other options and tons of room. I could cut the dash, go as big as 15, or even 19". I could have a console where a large screen lifts up with some servo or mechanical assembly. Or just simply a flip.
I bought a Hui Fie (sp?) head unit that matches the van. I like it, the colors match perfect, it's the higher res, with a quad core. However there are few things I'd like to improve. I could almost lose the buttons and relocate key ones, like the "home", "return", "navi" etc for a larger screen. Also, I find the buttons feel rather cheap compared to even the GM ones. And the GM ones are nothing high end, but they feel right.
Is it feasible to build a carputer and run android in it? SW controls possible? Are the keys I mention above possible? Canbus? Or would there be another route available by using the head unit I have and attaching to it to a larger screen? One thing I wish these units had was hdmi in and out, and an RJ45 connector for hardwiring a network.
I have a lot of projects on the go, money I should be spending elsewhere, and time that just doesn't... seem to leave me with the right energy and mindset, but I'd like to know if these things are possible. Of course with money and time, but for an average or a bit over average determined person, can they set all this up hardware wise? Is there other directions to find these means? I could literally do anything, it's just time and resources of learning to code new languages and source parts, etc. that limit me. If we were all rich and retired, many of us could do amazing things.
For me, it's a distraction, a hobby and a way to improve my work life. As long as I get the project done. That's the other downfall, you start on a path of perpetual upgrades that never end. But it's enjoyable.
Some head units (the NU3001 for example) are nothing more than an android box attached to a double din screen and buttons. If you can find a monitor that will fit you can pretty much plug in the android box anywhere.
Hi,
Well, I kind of figured that much. I guess you're the only person I've communicated with that confirmed it. However, how would you manage hooking up a larger LCD? You'll most likely have a ribbon cable to connect and you will be limited to the same resolution right? Some of my ideas envision the box much further from the LCD screen. So even if the ribbon cable and drivers work with the larger LCD, it's a physical problem.
The buttons, I don't think they'd be too difficult. You could either solder a tacky solution with wires to extend the location, or you could use SW controls to a button layout with the same resistance values. Seems simple enough. I'd like to know if a car computer is possible in any highly simple way. I can't deal too much with software and drivers right now, too involved for my head with all the other things. But it would be nice to drop in add ons, have an rj45 connector, hdmi in and out.
Maybe my plans are too excessive. Actually, I know they are as of Friday, some priorities have changed and need to reduce things for the time being. This is just an exercise for thought and a potential path in the future.
I do like that radio. I actually wished I bought it after using mine for a little while. Same specs I believe, but the layout actually suited my desires better. Knobs are good, for the size of mine, I'd rather either have one larger, or none. The home and return are necessities to me now.
dberladyn said:
Is it feasible to build a carputer and run android in it? SW controls possible? Are the keys I mention above possible? Canbus? Or would there be another route available by using the head unit I have and attaching to it to a larger screen? One thing I wish these units had was hdmi in and out, and an RJ45 connector for hardwiring a network.
I have a lot of projects on the go, money I should be spending elsewhere, and time that just doesn't... seem to leave me with the right energy and mindset, but I'd like to know if these things are possible. Of course with money and time, but for an average or a bit over average determined person, can they set all this up hardware wise? Is there other directions to find these means? I could literally do anything, it's just time and resources of learning to code new languages and source parts, etc. that limit me. If we were all rich and retired, many of us could do amazing things.
For me, it's a distraction, a hobby and a way to improve my work life. As long as I get the project done. That's the other downfall, you start on a path of perpetual upgrades that never end. But it's enjoyable.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
With limited time available, I think the answer is no.
Maybe within 1-2 years, with more "community experience" and threads etc., it may be more feasible for people with limited time.
I think the closest you can get right now is to install an Android tablet. This won't, in and of itself, provide hardware buttons, nor other things you desire.
All you want is technically possible of course (with lots of time/work), and I'm sure several home-built Android HU projects that go beyond installing a tablet will arise over the next few years.
For anyone who disagrees, note that OP does not have time to "mess around". If you still disagree, point me to a project thread or blog etc. where somebody has already done all that OP asks about and which won't require too much time to duplicate. Lets say,... 16 hours maximum.