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xperia x1 vs toshiba tg01 benchmarked

hello,let me tell you a story of my day.
let me say that is only small benchmark comparision of the two prossesors (msm 7200 and the scorpion (snapdragon)).
i know its not fair to compare the 2 devices ,but its just to see how the scorpion perform .
by the way in deviceinfo for the toshiba tg01 the proccesor name is SCORPION.
i was passing by mediamarkt germany today and the white tg01 was there to play with ,so i install sktools and test opengl and run them:
tg01 6.1 x1 wm6.1
integer 742 332
floating 19,75 7,73
ram 1200 1550
draw bitmaps 1800 800
(while benchmarking the tg01 my xperia was digging deep in my pocket )
test opengl gave me on all test 60fps (it seem the software is limited to 60 fps)
and i installed nfs undercover gl version(i almost cried there) the game runs like ps3 i dunno how many fps but it soo smooth maybe +60fps (x1 maybe run it at 10 t0 20fps max)
days of the msm 7200 are gone.
what i see is nice very impressive platform benchmark,i only hope that the next xperia will have snapdragon platform .
p.s: SONYERICSSON i want my xperia x1 with snapdragon and 8 mpx cam and accelerometer and i will be sold .

Not sure if snapdragon chipset will be that popular. nvidias tegra chipset seems to be far better and zune hd will feature it. so its only a matter of time for more devices to ship with that.

*just my opinion
Not trying to ***** out of the thread but I just don't understand the concept of nowadays smartphones are used to play games. I mean c'mon now if you really wanna play games...just buy a PSP. I'm happy w/ my Xperia as it is. If I do need a snapdragon, I'll get the Rachel but who knows when it'll be released.

well actualy i'd like to have a snapdragon because this chip was designed with the intention to suck as less power as possible. i've read something about using 1 Watt while running on 1 ghz. thats pretty impressing.
the qualcom CPU simply just sucks when it comes to power consumption and picture processing. no idea how the nvidia chipset is but so far the snapdragon is my favourite.
for the benchmarks, i cant care less. ill wait for a proper android phone/Rom since our biggest problem is the windows we are running.

i totaly respect your opinion ,
xperia(touchpro,touch pro2,diamond....) is suffering from bad video play and if i install a prog with nice 3d effect (like s2p gl)not mentioning games ,just lagging without limit.
and more programs are coming with better ui and effects ,and xperia wvga needs gpu power to keep up with these progs .
even camera need better gpu and cpu to record better video and take picture faster and better proccesing power is needed (if you use it as ppc not as phone).
personaly i use everything in my ppc,phone ,camera ,keyboard,wifi,bluetooth,gps,mp3,video player,even sometime games when i am in train or traveling.
thats the reason why i buy a ppc,if i wanna use phone only (i will not spend 500euro on ppc)
anyway this is my personal opinion .

just a little statement ... G/CPU is nearly never a problem. its allways a matter of programming skillz. just take a look at the demoscene and see what they squeeze out of lame PCs and 64kb files. and to be honest, most coders nowdays are lazy and go for heigher CPU ussage if they can save time. same for me ^^

Snapdragon and Tegra have different strengths. They actually complement each other rather well. A chip that has all of their capabilities is what I want.

what makes the tegra so special? 3D and video rendering?

achmed20 said:
just a little statement ... G/CPU is nearly never a problem. its allways a matter of programming skillz. just take a look at the demoscene and see what they squeeze out of lame PCs and 64kb files. and to be honest, most coders nowdays are lazy and go for heigher CPU ussage if they can save time. same for me ^^
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Can't blame programmers here as mobile device keep on changing it's hardware. Software optimized for Xscale no longer working for this crappy qualcomm chip. So, we need the brutal force method (fast cpu) to ensure everything works as smooth as possible.
Too bad this TG01 only support 2100 UMTS or I will be sold as well

Is it true that LEO's CPU is limited to 712MHz?

Hello All
I've just found this line in Eugenia's ROM thread:
"*- CPU scales to a maximum of 1GHz instead of 712MHz"
Is it true that the CPU is limited to 712MHz in the shipping ROMs?
If Yes this may explain the lower performance compared to ACER F1 and Toshiba TG01

I was wondering this too

This could do with some deeper investigation by the experts amongst us...

If this is true, I can imagine the HD2 FLYING when we have custom ROMs!
Mine is pretty damn fast with ROM 1.48!

it's certainly a very bold claim, without any support to it..
I would like to see what hard evidence there is to support it,
as if it's true, then HTC have been illegally advertising the HD2 as 1ghz capable device..

fards said:
it's certainly a very bold claim, without any support to it..
I would like to see what hard evidence there is to support it,
as if it's true, then HTC have been illegally advertising the HD2 as 1ghz capable device..
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Click to collapse
Suppose it is so, they did deliver a 1Ghz device, it's just limited for some reasons. First to my mind is battery life. Nevertheless, investigation is required and I hope kholk can clear some things for us since the seed was found in his thread.

fards said:
it's certainly a very bold claim, without any support to it..
I would like to see what hard evidence there is to support it,
as if it's true, then HTC have been illegally advertising the HD2 as 1ghz capable device..
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Click to collapse
My point exectly!
The only evidence we have for now is the line I quoted from Eugenia's soon to be released WM 6.5.3 ROM
But I've been thinking for a long time that the lower performance of the HD2 compared to other Snapdragon devices is due to some form of power management lowering the CPU frequence!

fards said:
it's certainly a very bold claim, without any support to it..
I would like to see what hard evidence there is to support it,
as if it's true, then HTC have been illegally advertising the HD2 as 1ghz capable device..
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Click to collapse
"HD2 as 1ghz capable"', does not mean it is running at 1GHZ but it could run at that speed, altough implied, but indeed it would be a misleading advert campaign
but i would like some proof too

tnyynt said:
Suppose it is so, they did deliver a 1Ghz device, it's just limited for some reasons. First to my mind is battery life. Nevertheless, investigation is required and I hope kholk can clear some things for us since the seed was found in his thread.
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The way its advertised means it would have to actually run at 1GHz, not just be a 1GHz model limited to less.
Unless its just a rubbish claim then i assume the ROM developer means limited to 712Mhz in certain situations, which might be for perfectly good reasons.

rovex said:
The way its advertised means it would have to actually run at 1GHz, not just be a 1GHz model limited to less.
Unless its just a rubbish claim then i assume the ROM developer means limited to 712Mhz in certain situations, which might be for perfectly good reasons.
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I don't agree: a software underclocked 1GHz CPU is still a 1GHz CPU. The chip is the same.

Not when the phone claims its a 1GHz CPU, which it does. The speed is not the name, its a physical attribute of the CPU that only exists if its actually running at that speed. This has been covered by EU law before, HTC cannot legally sell a phone running a CPU capable of 1GHz and claim its 1GHz if it never reaches that speed.

I suspect this ROM will just force full throttle all the time, which can only be bad for the battery life, but since we cannot flash it yet we dont know the effects, or if it even works at all.

HTC is advertising the HD2 machine as "1GHz capable device", but not as "1GHz device" that it's different.
It's barely legal.
Anyway, there IS evidence. And you can see it using TCPMP and doing some tests using the device's CPU
On this purpose, we've been talked on the xda-devs IRC channel about that, and I'm saying what I'm saying ONLY based on my tests: try to run TCPMP and see the CPU freq that it's reporting: 396-412MHz!
Use a program that is HEAVY on CPU load and run it in background (make sure that it won't close and that it will continue its work even in background) then see che CPU freq in TCPMP: you'll reach a maximum of 712MHz.
Another evidence of this statement is the performance of other SnapDragon machines like the Toshiba TG01.
P.S.: I think that the HTC HD2 will reach its 1024MHz frequency only when playing with the GLES2.0 Qualcomm test game, ELECTOPIA.
Electopia takes the device in EXCLUSIVE MODE, so it's possible that its frequency will be raised to 1GHz.

Its also quite possible that the CPU speed reporting programs do not support the snapdragon properly and report the wrong information.
The phone itself says the CPU speed is 1GHz in the phone hardware properties, this is a claim of speed, not name or theoretical capabilities.

So we're talking about dynamic freq adjustment on the go depending on processing power needed, similar to AMD's Cool and Quiet concept?

tnyynt said:
Suppose it is so, they did deliver a 1Ghz device, it's just limited for some reasons. First to my mind is battery life. Nevertheless, investigation is required and I hope kholk can clear some things for us since the seed was found in his thread.
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Click to collapse
doesn't work like that does it though? they advertise the device running at 1ghz and it doesn't then that's false advertising..
If (and I doubt looking at the benchmarks) it ran at 700 ish mhz (maximum) then they should have advertised it as such
they don't mention "1ghz capable" here.. They clearly state its CPU processor Speed (not theoritical or otherwise) as
CPU Processing Speed
1GHz Snapdragon™ processor
http://www.htc.com/uk/product/hd2/specification.html
and Overview
HTC HD2 delivers an experience your senses have been waiting for. The unprecedented 4.3-inch pixel-packed display is stunning. The world’s first capacitive touch technology on a Windows® phone along with 1 GHz processing power ensure a smooth and lightning-fast response to the lightest touch of your finger
It's like stating it has a 4.3 inch screen and then actually finding it was 3.3 inches because the edge was covered in protective cover..
http://www.htc.com/uk/product/hd2/overview.html
not saying this is true at all.. we all know cpus have been scaling for a while, and the HD2 certainly scores high enough in integer testing..
but if that's what it is then they are likely to be in trouble over this.
anyway Kolhk you claim to have it able to scale up, how have you done that?
this way we can try to replicate it

rovex said:
Its also quite possible that the CPU speed reporting programs do not support the snapdragon properly and report the wrong information.
The phone itself says the CPU speed is 1GHz in the phone hardware properties, this is a claim of speed, not name or theoretical capabilities.
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Click to collapse
If it reports the frequencies of other snapdragon devices correctly it shouldn't be an issue. And to they can't advertise the device as having a 1Ghz processor unless it runs at that speed(would it be ok for amd and intel to sell 4Ghz chips if they actually run at 2+Ghz, just because that would be their theoretical maximum?). The processor is probably, as mentioned earlier, just scaling back when it isn't used to 100%.

fards said:
they don't mention "1ghz capable" here.. They clearly state its CPU processor Speed (not theoritical or otherwise) as
CPU Processing Speed
1GHz Snapdragon™ processor
http://www.htc.com/uk/product/hd2/specification.html
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...and I bet if there's a text on the chip inside the device, it states the same on it. As far as I see things, HTC has a device with a 1G Snapdragon CPU which I bought. CPU inside, as described.

Toss3 said:
If it reports the frequencies of other snapdragon devices correctly it shouldn't be an issue. And to they can't advertise the device as having a 1Ghz processor unless it runs at that speed(would it be ok for amd and intel to sell 4Ghz chips if they actually run at 2+Ghz, just because that would be their theoretical maximum?). The processor is probably, as mentioned earlier, just scaling back when it isn't used to 100%.
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Click to collapse
Actually AMD sells processors like this: AMD Athlon 64 3000+ which actually runs at 1800.

A CPU speed programs needs to support the way the CPU is actually controlled, not just the CPU, so basically the clock generator as well. If The HD2 uses a different method from the F1 or TG-01 then the program wont work.

[CLOSED/DZ] HTC Desire Z (G2 w/ Sense)

HTC just announced the Desire Z version of their "Vision" handset that is identical to the G2. It runs a newer version of HTC Sense that's got a lot of nice new enhancements. I expect G2 owners will want to port this in a hurry.
Desire Z will be available in October in Europe and Asia only.
Check out this "Fast Boot" --- boots in like 4 seconds::: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OpWPMens9C8
YouTube video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERH9BoU64pw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NXnCOhvoqgw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2FAIlKN2u5M
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XwiNDsZNRag
Specifications (from here):
800 MHz Qualcomm Scorpion
Qualcomm MSM7230
2x faster than Snapdragon CPU
5x better than Snapdragon GPU
Android 2.2 w/ HTC Sense
3.7 inch display
800 x 480 resolution
SLCD technology
5 megapixel camera
LED flash
720p HD recording
HSPA+ integration
WiFi b/g/n
Size: 4.7 x 2.4 x 0.6 inches
Weight: 6.5 ounces
Battery: 1300 mAh Lion
Talk time: up to 6.5 hours
Standby time: up to 17.5 days
Pop-out QWERTY keyboard
Four rows
Programmable “quick access” keys
4GB of internal memory
Full aluminum body
HTC Fast Boot
Pre-installed 8GB microSD card
GPS with A-GPS
DLNA Streaming and Media Sharing
3.5 mm stereo audio jack
micro-USB (5-pin micro-USB 2.0)
Audio supported formats – Playback: .aac, .amr, .ogg, .m4a, .mid, .mp3, .wav, .wma (Windows Media Audio 9)
Video supported formats – Playback: .3gp, .3g2, .mp4, .wmv (Windows Media Video 9)
Ambient light sensor
Proximity sensor
Digital compass

That fast boot is crazy. I'm loving the phone, definitely fast. However the phone looks VERY thick.

so its called "HTC fast boot". I wonder if that means the G2 won't have it. I'd be a lot more likely to turn my phone off and save battery if I knew I could turn it back on that quick

The Desire Z has 1.5GB of internal memory from what I've read at Engadget, not 4.
Infact, your source also says 1.5GB internal memory.

Where are they getting that the CPU is 2x faster than Snapdragon? For all we know it's the same CPU shrunk to 45nm, so it should be the same speed.

Its possible HTC said that at the event? I'm just speculating.. I would be happy if its 2x faster.. lol.

dualityim said:
Where are they getting that the CPU is 2x faster than Snapdragon? For all we know it's the same CPU shrunk to 45nm, so it should be the same speed.
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a lot of the performance gain is from the Adreno 205 GPU as opposed to the older Adreno 200 GPUs on the Desire, HD2 and Evo. The Desire HD, however, also has the Adreno 205.

Superfrag said:
Its possible HTC said that at the event? I'm just speculating.. I would be happy if its 2x faster.. lol.
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Not really sure if that equates to better performance, but it is more efficient.
If you think about it, past 1st gen snapdragon phones had very poor GPUs which made the CPU look slower. Maybe the upgraded GPU adds speed to an otherwise speedy CPU.

That could be true. Maybe the GPU in earlier Snapdragons was bottlenecking the CPU. Makes sense.. I also think these can be OC'ed more without issues due to the 45nm architecture.

but will the 1300mah battery life survive?

I think it should be better. The shrinkage in die size results in a more efficient CPU, which emits less heat and consumes less power. If it was 1500mAh it would have been super, but I think 1300 mAh will be pretty good.
Maybe, just maybe HTC might release 1500 batteries, which will be sold separately. Or we might have to turn to aftermarket battery makers to satisfy our needs! (obviously not the extended version, same size but higher mAh)

Superfrag said:
That could be true. Maybe the GPU in earlier Snapdragons was bottlenecking the CPU. Makes sense.. I also think these can be OC'ed more without issues due to the 45nm architecture.
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I've heard that the MSM7x30 is actually the new 1Ghz Snapdragon underclocked at 800Mhz. Apparently that info is on the qualcomm website somewhere. If true then hell yeah the CPU can be overclocked, at the expense of battery power though.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App

The video on youtube titled "htc desire z - a closer look" is pretty amazing (i can't post links as i'm too new to this site). i'm just wondering how much is sense and how much will be on the g2...

skulk3r said:
a lot of the performance gain is from the Adreno 205 GPU as opposed to the older Adreno 200 GPUs on the Desire, HD2 and Evo. The Desire HD, however, also has the Adreno 205.
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Notice that those specs specifically mention that the CPU is 2x faster and the GPU is 5x faster, so when they say the CPU is 2x faster, they are not talking about the performance boost gained from using the Adreno 205, they are specifically referring to a faster CPU core. That's what I'm wondering about, the GPU is faster for sure, but all evidence points to a CPU that performs the same (or worse, due to the 200MHz slower clock) but shrunk to 45nm for better power efficiency.

You guys think the g2 will get dlna functions?

We don't know. AFAIK, the Desire Z doesn't have DLNA, nor does the Desire HD. All we can do is wait for it to be released, or reviews of it to come out.

sheek360 said:
You guys think the g2 will get dlna functions?
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Superfrag said:
We don't know. AFAIK, the Desire Z doesn't have DLNA, nor does the Desire HD. All we can do is wait for it to be released, or reviews of it to come out.
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The Desire Z seems to have DLNA, according to HTC. It's around 4 mins into the promo video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ly4C0TXmnlQ

ppl... clock speed is like horsepwoer in a car. its not the only determinant of performance. other stuff matters in a car right? like aerodynamics, weight, transmission etc? same for a chip. engineering matters. 2nd gen snapdragons are 2nd gen for a reason... they're better
Sent from my HTC Dream using XDA App

sheek360 said:
You guys think the g2 will get dlna functions?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Probably not. I don't see t-mobile digging into their pockets for that.

j.books said:
ppl... clock speed is like horsepwoer in a car. its not the only determinant of performance. other stuff matters in a car right? like aerodynamics, weight, transmission etc? same for a chip. engineering matters. 2nd gen snapdragons are 2nd gen for a reason... they're better
Sent from my HTC Dream using XDA App
Click to expand...
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You don't understand, Snapdragon is not a chip, it's a chipset or SoC. The CPU in Snapdragon is called Scorpion, and the G2 supposedly uses the same CPU, except manufactured in a 45nm process rather than a 65nm process. So except for the clock speed, we shouldn't expect any changes in the performance of the CPU.

Hummingbird VS Snapdragon

I cannot understand why everyone is saying that hummingbird processor is better than snapdragon and that's why I started this thread.
I own an HD2 (snapdragon) and SGS (hummingbird).
I've run linpack and quadrant in both phones and here are the results showing that snapdragon is 4 to 5 times faster.
Hummingbird: linpack 13,864 quadrant CPU 1456
Snapdragon: linpack 63,122 quadrant CPU 4122
I'm only talking for the CPU cause if you go to 3D I'll agree that hummingbird is better (but I don't care about 3D cause I don't use my device for games)
Both phones have android 2,2 installed and I have voodoo lagfix installed in SGS

johcos said:
I cannot understand why everyone is saying that hummingbird processor is better than snapdragon and that's why I started this thread.
I own an HD2 (snapdragon) and SGS (hummingbird).
I've run linpack and quadrant in both phones and here are the results showing that snapdragon is 4 to 5 times faster.
Hummingbird: linpack 13,864 quadrant CPU 1456
Snapdragon: linpack 63,122 quadrant CPU 4122
I'm only talking for the CPU cause if you go to 3D I'll agree that hummingbird is better (but I don't care about 3D cause I don't use my device for games)
Both phones have android 2,2 installed and I have voodoo lagfix installed in SGS
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
After looking into it for a while, I was focusing on what makes the Nexus One so much better than the other phones. On the chip level, I didn’t see it. Then it dawned on me to look at what Google had to say on the matter. Well, it was there in black and white. In their 20 May 2010 Developer’s Blog entry (http://android-developers.blogspot.com/2010/05/android-22-and-developers-goodies.html) they say that people could see a 2-5x speed increase. I think it is pointed out in an entry later in the blog dealing with NDK, which I initially missed: “ARM Advanced SIMD (a.k.a. NEON) instruction support The NEON instruction set extension can be used to perform scalar computations on integers and floating points. However, it is an optional CPU feature and will not be supported by all Android ARMv7-A based devices. The NDK includes a tiny library named “cpufeatures” that can be used by native code to test at runtime the features supported by the device’s target CPU.”
So, I guess this means that NEON is the difference. If your phone’s CPU has it and it’s enabled for JIT, you can expect higher Linpack numbers.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
http://www.greenecomputing.com/2010...ack-scores-so-mucher-higher-than-on-my-phone/
Now stop making topics like this.

the difference you notice is software related

If you want a real test, run a hd video on both phones, or a psx emulator and see if the nexus one is 5x faster... it is the same if not slower then the sgs

Well, SGS got hardware h264 decoding acceleration. Also, maybe you forget, but:
he Hummingbird comes with 32KB each of data and instruction caches, an L2 cache, the size of which can be customized, and an ARM® NEON™ multi-media extension.
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SAMSUNG and Intrinsity Jointly Develop the World's Fastest ARM® Cortex™-A8 Processor Based Mobile Core in 45 Nanometer Low Power Process
Advanced SIMD (NEON)
The Advanced SIMD extension, marketed as NEON technology, is a combined 64- and 128-bit single instruction multiple data (SIMD) instruction set that provides standardized acceleration for media and signal processing applications. NEON can execute MP3 audio decoding on CPUs running at 10 MHz and can run the GSM AMR (Adaptive Multi-Rate) speech codec at no more than 13 MHz. It features a comprehensive instruction set, separate register files and independent execution hardware. NEON supports 8-, 16-, 32- and 64-bit integer and single-precision (32-bit) floating-point data and operates in SIMD operations for handling audio and video processing as well as graphics and gaming processing. In NEON, the SIMD supports up to 16 operations at the same time. The NEON hardware shares the same floating-point registers as used in VFP.
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source: wiki
This means Hummingbirds are equipped with NEON. Why its not so effective/used in Quadrant/Linpack? My guess they (these benchmarks) are not compiled/optimised for Hummingbirds, just for Snapdragons.

I came from owning an iPhone and playing lots of games on it. I bought the SGS purely for the gaming performance of the Hummingbird processor.
Having seen the difference in game quality between the HTC Desire and the SGS, I know I made the right decision. Benchmarks don't mean anything.

As long as the device can run apps, games, multimedia smoothly, I dont care much about those benchmarkers, maybe they were designed and/or optimized for snapdragon prior to hummingbird.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App

i bet you anything he actually doesn't have a sgs...lol
jealousy maybe just a troll, ignore

In terms of overall smoothness (everything, not just games) the SGS is vastly superior to any other android phone I've seen (Desire included).

Darkimmortal said:
everything
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Really? You have to go all out and use the word "everything" when the phone can get major lockups?
"most things" sounds like a more reasonable and believable choice of words...
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App

My friends I do own an SGS (not happy with it thought) and the tests that I posted were run from me.
I wasn't talking about the gaming performance (I know that SGS is the best out there)
This thread was started so that we can find an answer why is this happening?
I see some answers that cover it but I believe not completely because in everyday use of the phones I see that HD2 is snappier (not much but it is) than SGS (with lagfix).
The best test I believe would be to put the phones to encode something (like a video) but I don't know any software that could do that. (If anyone knows some please point them to me and I'll be happy to post the results here)
The tests you mention with psx and multimedia won't show as what we're looking because the SGS will clearly win because of the GPU.

johcos said:
My friends I do own an SGS (not happy with it thought) and the tests that I posted were run from me.
I wasn't talking about the gaming performance (I know that SGS is the best out there)
This thread was started so that we can find an answer why is this happening?
I see some answers that cover it but I believe not completely because in everyday use of the phones I see that HD2 is snappier (not much but it is) than SGS (with lagfix).
The best test I believe would be to put the phones to encode something (like a video) but I don't know any software that could do that. (If anyone knows some please point them to me and I'll be happy to post the results here)
The tests you mention with psx and multimedia won't show as what we're looking because the SGS will clearly win because of the GPU.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
man. if you are not happy, then i think you should sell it. no one here will give you a satisfying answer that warm your heart. look for desire hd or something.
to answer ur questions. i get a 2100+ on quadrant. using voodoo fix and oclf on my eclaire. lag free and smooth as butter.
but either way, these test scores mean nothing. they were not designed for samusng hardware. it was designed based on htc and the snapdragon processor.
even people who use neocore for gpu are wrong. if you wana test the gpu performance, use nenamark1. the sgs gives u 49+ fps while the desire HD struggle to give u 35. while if you use neocore. the sgs gives u 56 while desire hd 58
my point is most of those software were designed with htc hardware in mind. so you cant really compare them.
just test your device for your self. apply whatever best roms you find here. if it doesnt lag and smooth for you. then ^^^^ everyone else.
the display alone is worth keepin the sgs for me. sure people might like i phone 4 display more. but nothing in my eyes come close to the contrast and colors of the super amoled. watching a movie or playing a game is a joy in this device.
hell yesterday evening a local htc store had a demo of desire hd. and the guy was nice enough to me play with it for like 1 hour.
device as a hardware look. its friggin sexy as hell. screen ? beauitful large 4.3 screen. quality colors compared to sgs ? fail. a lil slow and laggy " i am sure its because of the firmware. once roms are out, it will be faster "
i was thinking to change to desire hd honestly. but i wake away from the store kissing my sgs.
i love the desire hf look and feel. but as of now its not as smooth as my sgs. and the screen isnt as vibrant.

Psx emulator does not use the gpu...yet
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App

android53 said:
Psx emulator does not use the gpu...yet
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
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Click to collapse
this. i played king of fighters on my hd2 and it was laggy as hell
smooth as butter on my galaxy s
to be honest. the day psx4droid use gpu. galaxy owners are in heaven.

Its unlikely it ever will though, even modern pc emulators barely use the gpu, only for anti aliasing
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App

johcos said:
My friends I do own an SGS (not happy with it thought) and the tests that I posted were run from me.
I wasn't talking about the gaming performance (I know that SGS is the best out there)
This thread was started so that we can find an answer why is this happening?
I see some answers that cover it but I believe not completely because in everyday use of the phones I see that HD2 is snappier (not much but it is) than SGS (with lagfix).
The best test I believe would be to put the phones to encode something (like a video) but I don't know any software that could do that. (If anyone knows some please point them to me and I'll be happy to post the results here)
The tests you mention with psx and multimedia won't show as what we're looking because the SGS will clearly win because of the GPU.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why in hell woul you want to incodea video using a smartPHONE...?
It's like trying to fit your family and grocery in a sport car... not made for this bro!
stop trying to find reason to "not like" the SGS, if you don't like it, sell it and be done...

Snapdragon/Hummingbird scores in glbenchmark (nexus one/galaxy s):
integer: 20661/27624
float: 11173/7968
I guess glbenchmark uses native C code (hopefully with armv7 optimization), so the JIT compiler has no effect. From the scores it seems that the floating point unit in Snapdragon is faster - but most of the time it is not used (except video & games).
Anyway, a benchmark to measure the same algorithm in both native & java code with scalar & vector instructions would be great...

t1mman said:
Why in hell woul you want to incodea video using a smartPHONE...?
It's like trying to fit your family and grocery in a sport car... not made for this bro!
stop trying to find reason to "not like" the SGS, if you don't like it, sell it and be done...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
he's not whining, well, not in the first place and i don't see any harm on that i think he's trying to UNDERSTAND reasons behind numbers and daily use with help of other people, so am i. if i had to sell phones for every problem i encounter i will problaby be without (smart)phone at this time
i don't care about benchmarks, but if you think that sgs is smoother than hd2 xda optimized (with wm 6.5 or android 2.2) you obviously never owned an hd2 i'm not talking about games, like johcos says galaxy s performance is not questionable. but android is not all about game. anyway, i don't think hardware is the problem here, sure sgs is superior in many aspects, we know that, regardless benchmarks (even if it seems here that only benchmarks where sgs win are trustworthy, others are not good, not optimized, not realistic, meaningless for real life performance etc.). with a little help from samsung and this community sgs will soon outperform (in real usage) all snapdragon phones. i hope

...when average men talk about the high tech w/o knowledge, boo

ll_l_x_l_ll said:
man. if you are not happy, then i think you should sell it. no one here will give you a satisfying answer that warm your heart. look for desire hd or something.
to answer ur questions. i get a 2100+ on quadrant. using voodoo fix and oclf on my eclaire. lag free and smooth as butter.
but either way, these test scores mean nothing. they were not designed for samusng hardware. it was designed based on htc and the snapdragon processor.
even people who use neocore for gpu are wrong. if you wana test the gpu performance, use nenamark1. the sgs gives u 49+ fps while the desire HD struggle to give u 35. while if you use neocore. the sgs gives u 56 while desire hd 58
my point is most of those software were designed with htc hardware in mind. so you cant really compare them.
just test your device for your self. apply whatever best roms you find here. if it doesnt lag and smooth for you. then ^^^^ everyone else.
the display alone is worth keepin the sgs for me. sure people might like i phone 4 display more. but nothing in my eyes come close to the contrast and colors of the super amoled. watching a movie or playing a game is a joy in this device.
hell yesterday evening a local htc store had a demo of desire hd. and the guy was nice enough to me play with it for like 1 hour.
device as a hardware look. its friggin sexy as hell. screen ? beauitful large 4.3 screen. quality colors compared to sgs ? fail. a lil slow and laggy " i am sure its because of the firmware. once roms are out, it will be faster "
i was thinking to change to desire hd honestly. but i wake away from the store kissing my sgs.
i love the desire hf look and feel. but as of now its not as smooth as my sgs. and the screen isnt as vibrant.
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Click to collapse
Honestly couldn't agree anymore, even with all the problems the SGS has. The screen+hardware combination is just too overwhelming for me to swap the phone for something else.

Mystery (probably) solved; how Samsung pulls off its GPU magic.

Edit: TL;DR VERSION: 128 of that 512 megs of RAM in ur Epic is leet special-sawce Samsung RAM that pwns other RAMs, and makes ur GPU make moar trianglez in ur gamez.
Forgive me folks, I'm lazy, so I'm posting this more or less verbatim from what I posted in my blog, with a few minor tweaks. It's long and probably boring, so you have my apologies in advance.
Despite my efforts to pull myself away from ARM architecture, Android, and specifically, the mysteries surrounding the Hummingbird processor, I can never really extract myself. One of these days I'll get around to obsessing over something else (hopefully career-related) but until then, I'll let you know what I think I've uncovered as the solution to how Samsung solved the GPU bandwidth issue (which I puzzled over in my original Hummingbird vs. Snapdragon article.)
There have been a few opportunities where I've had to step in and correct people when they post that a Galaxy S phone has only ~320 megs of RAM. It's an error I see made frequently when people use Android system info applications that can only see the 320 megs of volatile memory, despite the fact that the phone does actually contain 512 megs of RAM. We see it happen every time a new Galaxy S phone is leaked, even the Nexus S.
The explanation for this has always been that a certain amount of memory have been "reserved" by Samsung for the Android OS, and that memory is not visible nor available to applications. Despite this, I've never been able to figure out exactly how the system provides the 12.6 GB/sec of memory bandwidth it (theoretically) needs to push out 90 million triangles/sec with the PowerVR SGX540 GPU.
I'm not quite sure how it happened, but in my meanderings across the interwebs, I ran across the following image on ODROID.com of the block diagram of the S5PC110 that they use for their developer board.
(Edit: Image-Shacked... ODROID didn't appreciate me hot-linking their image. Whoops. Use the ODROID.com link above to see the original.)
Careful observation of the POP (Package-On-Package, or "Stacked" circuits) module on the left-hand side shows 384 MB of LPDDR1 and 128MB of OneDRAM, a term I'd noticed on S5PC110 documentation on the list of supported technologies. I'd assumed that it wasn't used. I'd already determined that even though the Hummingbird supports LPDDR2, it only supports it at 400 Mbps transfer rate (which LPDDR1 is capable of) and, with an x32 bus, only allows for 1.6 GBps data bandwidth, a far cry from the 12.6 GBps needed.
So what is this OneDRAM? According to Samsung, "OneDRAM is a fusion memory chip that, can significantly increase the data processing speed between a communications processor and a media processor in mobile devices," and, "...this results resulting in a five-fold increase in the speed of cellular phone and gaming console operations, longer battery life and slimmer handset designs." (Sic.)
Hear hear! 5 times 1.6 GBps still doesn't equal 12.6, but the 12.6 number is a something I arrived at using a lot of assumptions (4.2 GBps bandwidth needed by the PowerVR SGX540 to perform 28 million triangles per second, multiplied times 3 to make ~90 million triangles per second). I'm satisfied that the OneDRAM is that holy grail memory I've been looking for.
Now, how to prove that it actually exists inside my Epic 4G? Remember, the S5PC110 Hummingbird doesn't come with memory built-in; that's something that gets stacked on when the phone is built. The ODROID guys could very well be using a completely different configuration; though that ~320 megs showing up over and over in Android system info apps hardly seems like a coincidence, assuming the difference between 384 and 320 is actually reserved memory for the OS' own system applications. The OneDRAM on the other hand would be reserved primarily for hardware use, such as the GPU as Samsung earlier suggested.
I turned to one of my Android developer acquaintences, noobnl of xda-developers.com. When I showed him what I've run across, (hoping to see if he'd heard of this before, as he has a good handle on Epic hardware) he told me that I had made a good find. He also pasted some kernel code that clearly referenced OneDRAM, proving that the Epic 4G contains this technology.
So there you go folks. The secret is out. The Galaxy S phones are likely able to achieve such amazing graphics performance via a 128 MB Samsung-proprietary high-speed hybrid memory solution. The remaining 384 megs of memory is plain-jane LPDDR1. The total is the promised 512 megs, and honestly, I wouldn't trade the OneDRAM for 128 megs more of LPDDR1 available application memory, but it's interesting how Samsung has kept the OneDRAM solution so quiet. It's likely enjoying the current GPU supremacy of the Galaxy S phones, unfortunately come Cortex-A9, LPDDR2 memory (> 400 Mbps), and dual-channel memory controllers, they will be back on a level playing field. Who could blame them for setting aside Orion and picking up NVIDIA's Tegra 2 SoCs for their next-gen smartphones? It's a fast-moving industry out there, particularly when you don't have Intrinsity any longer as your ace-in-the-hole. Curse you, Apple.
PS - Some of you guys on here know more about this **** than I do. Please feel free to offer suggestions, corrections, and jeers. Though I'm hoping for less of the latter.

Dude what?
Sent from my SGH-T959D using XDA App

Mannnnnnn ....I had a hunch it worked like that
thanks for clearing this up Im glad im not the only one that figured this out!

Are you not compensating for TBDR memory efficiency?

Interesting. Could also complicate porting newer Android versions, at least wih the same efficiency.

I pretend I understood all that you said..and say...Voila..FINALLY!

Yeah I've seen documentation saying the Galaxy S phones have 4Gb of RAM. 1Gb of which is OneDRAM and 3Gb is LPDDR (Idk version). Now, tell us why ODROID and the block diagram can do 1080p and we can't.
EDIT:

thephawx said:
Are you not compensating for TBDR memory efficiency?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I just pulled my information from some raw data about the Intel GMA500 (which is an SGX540 disguised as Intel) running at 200 MHz. I would assume the 4.2 GB/s bandwidth needed assumes TBDR is being used.
It's a shaky line of reasoning though. Wish I had some more hard data on the SGX540, and more specifically, the clock rate it runs at in the Epic.
arashed31 said:
Yeah I've seen documentation saying the Galaxy S phones have 4Gb of RAM. 1Gb of which is OneDRAM and 3Gb is LPDDR (Idk version). Now, tell us why ODROID and the block diagram can do 1080p and we can't.
EDIT:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, I could swear I've seen those numbers somewhere but I can't for the life of me find it.
As for the 1080p, that's a good catch; interesting. And, now that I look closer, WiFi doesn't have N support, though I suppose it's possible they used a different WiFi chip.

delete, double post.

Interesting...I guess it makes sense somewhat...though with that much processing why would they then set an FPS limit? is it suppose to be their way of saving energy?
As for 1080p..we have specifications for it..If i were to guess we just don't have the proper drivers...video decoding is done via the ARM Neon..so if anything 1080p would play slow..but it doesn't play at all...so its either locked out intentionally..or the driver is not configured to...I mean it can handle 720p at [email protected] reason why it can't handle 1080p at lower settings...

Wow.. My brains are like oh my gawds!
Interesting tho
Sent from my SPH-D700 using Tapatalk

Another thing. If you look at the Bluetooth certification site you'll see the Samsung Epic is certified for Bluetooth 3.0. Even though the chip in there is a Broadcomm chip that only supports Wireless N and Bluetooth 3.0.
gTen said:
Interesting...I guess it makes sense somewhat...though with that much processing why would they then set an FPS limit? is it suppose to be their way of saving energy?
As for 1080p..we have specifications for it..If i were to guess we just don't have the proper drivers...video decoding is done via the ARM Neon..so if anything 1080p would play slow..but it doesn't play at all...so its either locked out intentionally..or the driver is not configured to...I mean it can handle 720p at [email protected] reason why it can't handle 1080p at lower settings...
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Click to collapse
Video decoding is on the processor? WHAT. THE. HELL. SAMSUNG.

Sounds like you did your homework, i'll buy it. Thanks for sharing. I'll take the fast vid over ram too

tmuka said:
Sounds like you did your homework, i'll buy it. Thanks for sharing. I'll take the fast vid over ram too
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Homework, yes... but I'd really like to see an ARM engineer affirm it.
gTen said:
Interesting...I guess it makes sense somewhat...though with that much processing why would they then set an FPS limit? is it suppose to be their way of saving energy?
As for 1080p..we have specifications for it..If i were to guess we just don't have the proper drivers...video decoding is done via the ARM Neon..so if anything 1080p would play slow..but it doesn't play at all...so its either locked out intentionally..or the driver is not configured to...I mean it can handle 720p at [email protected] reason why it can't handle 1080p at lower settings...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, I just actually took a look at the S5PC110 User Manual and sure enough, 1080p encoding / decoding at 30 FPS is showing supported on the block diagram:
"1080p 30 fps MFC
Codec H.263/H.264/MPEG4
Decoder MPEG2/VC-1/Divx"
But then, directly below the block diagram, the following is shown:
"Multi Format Codec provides encoding and decoding of MPEG-4/H.263/H.264 up to [email protected] and
decoding of MPEG-2/VC1/Divx video up to [email protected] fps"
That's an odd discrepancy, particularly for an official Samsung processor owner's manual.
Also worth mentioning is that that manual makes no mention of OneDRAM in the memory subsystem breakdown where OneNAND, LPDDR1, LPDDR2, and DDR2 support are outlined, however, it's clearly listed as a supported memory type in the block diagram, and later throughout the manual. Hmm.
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