Related
UPDATE 9/10:
Sorry, the project is discontinued by me. The source code is published as an attachment.
Feel free to continue the development (but if you do, please mention my name somewhere).
End users: Please try Groovefish by Barguast instead!
Thanks for all your support!
----------------------------------------------------------------
As the titles states, I've developed an application able to stream any song from Grooveshark.
The application is still full of bugs, so it should be considered more of a proof-of-concept at the moment.
I will spend my limited spare time on my new, still secret, project. Keep your eyes open
UPDATE 29/9:
New alpha version (0.2) released!
Some of the crashing is hopefully gone. Please leave feedback!
Known bugs:
BASS (the audio player) sometimes gives you a message box saying that the playback failed. Wait a few seconds and try again.
The spinning umbrella gets stuck on the result list (scroll a little to remove it).
The search query doesn't get copied from the search screen to the result/player screen.
Requirements:
Windows Mobile 6.1 (5.0, 6.0 and 6.5 will probably work).
.NET Compact Framework 3.5.
QVGA, VGA or WVGA screen resolution.
Download and screenshots as attachments.
Thanks to scilor for letting me use his kinetic scrolling demo code!
sounds a great idea.
unlikely to see a spotify app for a long while...
I think you shouldn't worry about it for a couple of reasons.
First, Grooveshark hasn't been labeled illegal.
Second, if Grooveshark has a problem with you reverse engineering their product they'll probably contact you first asking you to stop developing, at which point you might have to, or you can attempt to get hired by them for a windows mobile/ mobile version of their product all together!.... ( I doubt the last part, but I can hope can't I?)
Third, this is development forum, and you are developing within the bounds of things that aren't explicitly illegal.
So yeah, bring joy to our community and spread your knowledge.
looks like a great app, as said above a spotify app will be a long while off lol
sounds awesome, keep it up!
I would be VERY interested in this app.
Color me completely and unbelievably interested!!
Extremely interested. I could do graphics, if you wanted to go that approach.
I know this is very early, but I believe you could have a killer app:
*Kinetic Scrolling
*Great looks
*Easy to use
*User account?(maybe)
Thanks for all the response!
I've been improving the stability during the weekend and will now start to improve the looks.
intx said:
Extremely interested. I could do graphics, if you wanted to go that approach.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks, but right now I think I'm OK with the graphics. I'm using Fluid to get a nice look and feel.
Actually, I'm having more problem with the audio playback part, where I'm using BASS.
Stay tuned for more details and maybe a alpha version!
then let me offer my servics as a tester. I would use the app a lot, so I could help track down bugs. I have a Diamond, which is VGA.
if you need a betat tester count me in.
This sounds like a fantastic idea. How much bandwidth is required for streaming?
Fluid library looks nice, but it would be even better to use graphics similar to Grooveshark itself as it's interface would lend itself to mobile nicely.
Can't wait to give this a try
thanks at least for bringing this site to my attention. will try running it off my skyfire for now.
Blade0rz said:
This sounds like a fantastic idea. How much bandwidth is required for streaming?
Fluid library looks nice, but it would be even better to use graphics similar to Grooveshark itself as it's interface would lend itself to mobile nicely.
Can't wait to give this a try
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Grooveshark is streaming MP3 files, and the bitrate differs. Some songs I've tested are 128 kbit, and some are 192 kbit. There's most likely other bitrates as well. A regular 3G connection is between 64 kbit and 384 kbit, depending on the distance to the mobile mast. However, during my initial testing I've found no issues streaming the songs using my 3G connection.
Fluid is fully skinnable. In the first release it will probably "just work". In the upcoming ones I will try to make it look good as well. Your idea of making it look like the regular Grooveshark is really good.
As for the beta testing; I'm no fan of closed beta testings. I will publish I alpha or beta release as soon as possible (maybe in a week or two), and anyone may download it and help me locate the bugs.
/nile
...
yeah same here, thanks for bringing this site to my attention. This app would be awesume...
nilezon said:
Grooveshark is streaming MP3 files, and the bitrate differs. Some songs I've tested are 128 kbit, and some are 192 kbit. There's most likely other bitrates as well. A regular 3G connection is between 64 kbit and 384 kbit, depending on the distance to the mobile mast. However, during my initial testing I've found no issues streaming the songs using my 3G connection.
Fluid is fully skinnable. In the first release it will probably "just work". In the upcoming ones I will try to make it look good as well. Your idea of making it look like the regular Grooveshark is really good.
As for the beta testing; I'm no fan of closed beta testings. I will publish I alpha or beta release as soon as possible (maybe in a week or two), and anyone may download it and help me locate the bugs.
/nile
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Streaming over HSDPA is really all I'm looking for Would be fantastic, although I'm not sure O2 would agree
If Fluid is skinnable, then it definitely looks as if it would be a very easy way to implement the Grooveshark interface.
Blade0rz said:
Streaming over HSDPA is really all I'm looking for Would be fantastic, although I'm not sure O2 would agree
If Fluid is skinnable, then it definitely looks as if it would be a very easy way to implement the Grooveshark interface.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm thinking of creating a local cache function, so that you don't need to stream the same song several times. The cache will however not make it into this first alpha release, and (for all you pirates out there) I will encrypt the local cache files to avoid downloading of songs.
After some struggling with Fluid it's clear to me that I need to look for other ways of building the UI. Fluid is too limited in it's default state, and changing it would take too much time.
I will build a simple but touch friendly UI for the first release. If anyone have some sample code for kinetic scrolling, please PM me or post the code in this thread. Thanks!
nilezon said:
I'm thinking of creating a local cache function, so that you don't need to stream the same song several times. The cache will however not make it into this first alpha release, and (for all you pirates out there) I will encrypt the local cache files to avoid downloading of songs.
After some struggling with Fluid it's clear to me that I need to look for other ways of building the UI. Fluid is too limited in it's default state, and changing it would take too much time.
I will build a simple but touch friendly UI for the first release. If anyone have some sample code for kinetic scrolling, please PM me or post the code in this thread. Thanks!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Found this on MSDN for legacy support:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=333124
Of course the Windows Mobile 6.5 Developer Toolkit comes with some great gesture samples, but you don't want to limit you application like that
Caching is a good idea, but definitely edging closer to "illegal" status
Is there any chance this will work on the smartphone (Standard) devices? Maybe it won't be too much of a work to make it work on non-touch screen devices since you are planing to make it simple.
amaric said:
Is there any chance this will work on the smartphone (Standard) devices? Maybe it won't be too much of a work to make it work on non-touch screen devices since you are planing to make it simple.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, I will probably never release a smartphone version, but the application is very modular, and it would be easy for anyone to take the Grooveshark DLL and the music player DLL and build their own GUI.
http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=linux_2637_video&num=1
This is a 200 line patch that according to linux was according to Linus the most impressive result of code that is elegant - 200 lines long - and should be wound into the phone linux as well
---- edit - and here is why it isnt going to be of any use for us...
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=822756&page=210
and the meat of it from bilboa1 :-
Originally Posted by giulio.alfano
Have you seen these? w_w_w.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=linux_2637_video&num=1
Phoronix(and Linus) say that is a miraculous 200 lines patch to increase interactivty? Can you consider the inclusion, of course if group scheduling in android 2.6.32 kernel is compatible?
the process groups are created per tty, that wont work on android
you can create process groups by hand however but it doesn't make a lot of sense for android in that case. the goal is to have some intensive tasks into their own group, but theres no intensive tasks and we don't have issues like audio or video lagging
their tweak is especially good if you run a compilation in the background and want to browse the web while waiting without having slow downs.
on android if you browse the web you dont have other cpu heavy tasks in progress usually (like encoding a video or what not)
i hope that was clear enough
I've off works urlaub would bei awesome
Where are the developers, who can say, if it works?
Sent from my GT-I9000 using my Brain
Wouldnt get too excited,phoronix is like the sun of linux news
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
Already discussed - its useless on phone. Phone will be even slower.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
dupel said:
Already discussed - its useless on phone. Phone will be even slower.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lets save statements like these after it has been actually tested.
KhaaL said:
Lets save statements like these after it has been actually tested.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not everything needs to be tested. If you make a program to draw a circle, it wont make a square, let alone cook eggs. (it's the case for this patch at the technical level, beyond the "wow" words from 1st post)
Note: there's other patches in 2.6.37 for responsiveness which are different from the one spoken about here which are actually likely to improve things. But probably not as drastic.
dupel said:
Already discussed - its useless on phone. Phone will be even slower.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Got any links to where I can find out what you know?
I was *hoping* that if it made desktops much more responsive under heavy loadings that it would help with the phone - its not like we have slow cpu's in these things Or is it cpu architecture that allows the improvments and the phones just are not compatible? or something else?
just wanting to know more and to hopefully get a dev who thinks its worth taking a look to see - 200 lines of code - *cof* (ducks behind armour) "how hard could it be?" *runs for cover*
i get this sinking feeling from the subtle - and not so subtle comments from you guys tho - that its just not really suited for how android works on a phone....
cbdrift said:
Got any links to where I can find out what you know?
I was *hoping* that if it made desktops much more responsive under heavy loadings that it would help with the phone - its not like we have slow cpu's in these things Or is it cpu architecture that allows the improvments and the phones just are not compatible? or something else?
just wanting to know more and to hopefully get a dev who thinks its worth taking a look to see - 200 lines of code - *cof* (ducks behind armour) "how hard could it be?" *runs for cover*
i get this sinking feeling from the subtle - and not so subtle comments from you guys tho - that its just not really suited for how android works on a phone....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Read last 5 pages in hardcore kernel topic.
knowing one and the other about linux, I have to disagree with those who say: it's gonna make your phone slower..
why? in linux, things constantly run in the background. and what this patch does, is give priority to foreground processes. True, there isn't MUCH in the background, so results may not be super, but the compile with 64 threads is just AN EXAMPLE of what it can do. That's the PERFECT situation to demonstrate. This doesn't mean that it sucks for everything else! It just means that it works
So stop *****ing and just test it before you start yapping that it's bad, doesn't work on phones etc... There is no right and wrong here, there is just: test it and see if it works!
i'd like to have a REAL technical discussion with these people here that are so-called experts... Because their arguments (excusez-le-mot) SUCK.
so please adapt your first post, because what they are saying is just guessing and not based on experiments nor experience, which renders it completely useless
Just my 2 cents
dupel said:
Already discussed - its useless on phone. Phone will be even slower.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
discussion is worthless, you can't convince me with some "maybe this, possibly that", if you say it's useless: give hard numbers or (sorry, but...) stfu!
UPDATE:
i've been reading up on the lkml and i think there are some very interesting possibilities here...
What this program does, is put the tty-bound processes in a special cgroup. While this is done automatically, there is also a possibility to just do the same in userspace. (check Lennart from redhat's solution).
It basicly creates a different cgroup for foreground processes, he does it in the bash profile. But i think that with this in mind, we can create cgroup handler for our "most important" apps to make them more responsive!
I've been looking into hardcore's kernel and it already has cgroup support built in, so it's actually just a matter of using it properly
how? check lennart's comments further in the lkml thread because you have to look out to clean up cgroups when no more processes use it.
Anyway, when properly tuned, it should be even better than the kernel patch people talked about!
These type of changes would suit more underpowered devices like the Hero or G1 but imho I dont know why the galaxy S needs it, my IO after applying OCLF is 2300+ apps, any lag issues are not due to the current modded kernels available as they are really good..
Idk why people don't understand simple things
cgroups does not magically makes your apps more responsive. It makes groups of processes which are scheduled together at the same level instead of doing it per process.
So, the group of "make" processes during a make -j64 get all globally a lower share of resources (than if they weren't grouped), allowing the group "browser" process to get enough resources to be smooth.
Without, each make process (64 of them) would get an equal resource time, which would also be equal to the browser, which ends up not being very nice for the desktop.
Now on the phone.. do you have a make -j64 running [IN THE BACKGROUND]? nope. do you have an heavy process or group of processes running [IN THE BACKGROUND]? nope.
Your front task is always the one taking most resources. If you put it in a group you might even decrease it's performance and responsiveness.
It's a double edged sword. You see, when they schedule the make -j64 process group, your browser is smooth but the make -j 64 process group is *slower*.
So unless a group of processes on the phone are taking too much cpu (i know of none doing that unless they're on the foreground), it's useless
bilboa1 said:
Idk why people don't understand simple things
cgroups does not magically makes your apps more responsive. It makes groups of processes which are scheduled together at the same level instead of doing it per process.
So, the group of "make" processes during a make -j64 get all globally a lower share of resources (than if they weren't grouped), allowing the group "browser" process to get enough resources to be smooth.
Without, each make process (64 of them) would get an equal resource time, which would also be equal to the browser, which ends up not being very nice for the desktop.
Now on the phone.. do you have a make -j64 running [IN THE BACKGROUND]? nope. do you have an heavy process or group of processes running [IN THE BACKGROUND]? nope.
Your front task is always the one taking most resources. If you put it in a group you might even decrease it's performance and responsiveness.
It's a double edged sword. You see, when they schedule the make -j64 process group, your browser is smooth but the make -j 64 process group is *slower*.
So unless a group of processes on the phone are taking too much cpu (i know of none doing that unless they're on the foreground), it's useless
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
very true... that's why it still might be possible to group "your current task" and "all the rest". That (might) give you an advantage still...
and as said: i'm not saying it IS better, i'm saying it might be worth testing
hence the suggestion i put in post 11: make something that puts the application you start in foreground in a dedicated group and EVERYTHING else in another. When you background that process, move it to the "pool" group
it might just help!! (so... don't shoot the idea too soon )
Will android ever get REAL TRUE Multi Tasking? not the app switching that it has now but real multi tasking like webos and bb playbook os, would developers be able to add this somehow to tablets on their own? or could we port other os like webos and bb os to our tablets when wanting or needing true multi tasking
Rodriguez92 said:
Will android ever get REAL TRUE Multi Tasking? not the app switching that it has now but real multi tasking like webos and bb playbook os, would developers be able to add this somehow to tablets on their own? or could we port other os like webos and bb os to our tablets when wanting or needing true multi tasking
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
android already handles asynchronous threads. that' is "REAL TRUE" multitasking. and android already has background processes running along with apps running in the background.
on a mobile device, there isn't enough screen real estate to show two apps running, so that's never been a priority for android, it's not a case that it can't do it.
as for tablets, i'm sure if not already, it's coming.
I meant multitasking like have a youtube video running n writing an email at the same time. In android if you switch out of youtube the video pauses even though it stays running un the background. I would like things to keep running as if I was still in that application. On tablets im not talking about mobile devices.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA Premium App
MarkusPO said:
as for tablets, i'm sure if not already, it's coming.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
if you really want that,buy a laptop. tablets are in an early stage of development. as an early adopter you need to put up with the tech while it's being developed.
I have a laptop n a desktop that's not the issue but if my tablet is just as strong as some laptops why not be able to do these things. Im just asking can we port or will we be able to do it at some point if you didn't realize the question.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA Premium App
Rodriguez92 said:
I meant multitasking like have a youtube video running n writing an email at the same time. In android if you switch out of youtube the video pauses even though it stays running un the background.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's a feature. YouTube intentionally pauses playback, but it does not have to - it could play in the background. So Android has "REAL TRUE" multitasking, but YouTube doesn't use it that way you want.
so what about videos on the device can those keep playing? one thing on the playbook that i really like and was hoping we could get on android was being able to do one thing when your device is plugged into your tv on the tv n doing something else on the tab for example playing a game on the tab n watcxhing a movie on the tv thats playing on the tab
I'm not sure about that, but I think there is no API for displaying something on a TV, so if you have some kind of TV-out in your device, it'll probably just clone the main screen. But speaking of multitasking, it's possible to play video and some game simultaneously - it's just impossible to display and control both of them
MarkusPO said:
android already handles asynchronous threads. that' is "REAL TRUE" multitasking. and android already has background processes running along with apps running in the background.
on a mobile device, there isn't enough screen real estate to show two apps running, so that's never been a priority for android, it's not a case that it can't do it.
as for tablets, i'm sure if not already, it's coming.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Android is naturally single threaded. You can handle asynchronous threads, but your context is manually set ( yeah your global vars will get clobbered, unless you handle context switches). You dealing with stacks? You even hear of recursion?
I can prove it to you in an app.
Take mail, build two accounts with different pwds and hosts.
Start a long download on one.
Try a short download with the other.
The asynchronous top level will allow the context switch, the single threaded android bottom end will loose context while spinning on a lock.
Java was outdated 15 years ago ( great graphics on a sparc station), but needs guts now.
The interpreter loader would have to be able to build data structures dynamically, so as to allow examples like the above to run correctly.
SO APKS WOULD CHANGE SIZES as they ran.
OR a limit to the number of mail accounts would have to be preset.
OR a monolith APK bundle (htc sense 3 ) would have to be created.
IMHO
Rodriguez92 said:
I meant multitasking like have a youtube video running n writing an email at the same time. In android if you switch out of youtube the video pauses even though it stays running un the background. I would like things to keep running as if I was still in that application. On tablets im not talking about mobile devices.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA Premium App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Youtube does that on purpose to prevent you from just using it as a music streaming service, you can listen to Pandora or Last.FM while writing an Email or pretty much anything else.
willy900wonka said:
Android is naturally single threaded.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Err... Android is single threaded? ;-) I think you meant "apps for Android" instead of "Android" and "single process" instead of "single threaded". Of course apps are multi-threaded. Same for Android OS - it's not only multi-threaded, but even multi-process.
But you're right: most of Android apps use only one process, so one context, etc. It's possible to run your app in several processes, but you can't spawn them whenever you want - you have to define each process in AndroidManifest.xml.
You should take into account that multiple processes aren't good, because device uses some RAM for each process you will create. You could run 2, 5 or 8 processes, but when you try to create 10th one, your device will run out of memory and some of your tasks will be killed. But if you redesign your app, so it will manage all of these task in one process, then this will take minimal amount of RAM and will give you exactly the same possibilities.
Of course Android isn't Apple, I think that should be a choice of an app developer, not Google. But they would have to add some API for this and they know it would be totally impractical, so I think they just don't want to waste their time on that
willy900wonka said:
You dealing with stacks? You even hear of recursion?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think you should learn OOP and multi-threaded programming ;-) Recursion? What's the problem? If you run recursion on instance A of some class X and second recursion on instance B of X, then they won't even know of each other.
Single-process doesn't mean there is always one instance of each class. If you use singletons and/or static methods where you shouldn't, then it's your problem.
willy900wonka said:
Java was outdated 15 years ago ( great graphics on a sparc station), but needs guts now.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Err.. what? ;-) Java was created 15 years ago, it's up-to-date language right now and it's still developed quite rapidly. Also if you think about these problems with single-process, then this isn't caused by Java, but Android OS.
willy900wonka said:
The interpreter loader would have to be able to build data structures dynamically, so as to allow examples like the above to run correctly.
SO APKS WOULD CHANGE SIZES as they ran.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have no idea, what are you talking about
willy900wonka said:
OR a limit to the number of mail accounts would have to be preset.
OR a monolith APK bundle (htc sense 3 ) would have to be created.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
OR learn how to properly write multi-threaded applications ;-)
i assume op has never listened to music while browsing the internet. if that isn't "true multitasking" then i don't know what is
anyway, i think this thread was a mistake on op's behalf
willy900wonka said:
The asynchronous top level will allow the context switch, the single threaded android bottom end will loose context while spinning on a lock.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Locks only apply to concurrency, no?
An interesting discussion about how to manage Binders and IPC and Threads at the native level I found:
http://groups.google.com/group/andr...hread/thread/532f2ec1d17eadf/5cb6a1491fb23274
I'm not very well versed at the low level stuff, but having Threads and Binders and IPC would indicate to me a multi-threaded environment.
This is a quote from Diane Hackborn who's one of Android's framework engineers:
(from 2009)
...multiple processes is a key aspect of Android and making it relatively easy to deal with that (mostly so far at the system level) is important.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So yeah, process scheduling has to occur at some point when you only have one processor, and it seems you can grab a nasty deadlock via native code, but none of that implies single threadedness. This is obviously not to mention Binders and IPC/AIDL and Threads at the Java level.
Anyways this thread sparked my interest to read about this stuff more, so thanks all you guys for that. Now I'll never fall asleep
Edit: also found this interesting overview of Bionic (Android's version of libc)
http://www.netmite.com/android/mydroid/1.5/bionic/libc/docs/OVERVIEW.TXT
UPDATE v1.2 Just released onto the market
Thanks for all of the feedback. Please keep it coming. I think it's coming along nicely, next stage is to lay more in-game features.
More importantly - what do you think? The link is in my signature.
I've also started up a blog - if anyone is interested in writing their own app - it's how I've found the process.
::1.2
+ Redesigned graphics engine
+ Support for multi-sized devices including 320x480 up to tablets
+ Enhanced levelling system
+ Persisted scores and progress
+ Mute music/fx added to front screen and gameplay screens
+ Added new creep
+ Fixed FC issues on game leaving/re-entering
+ Redesigned splash screens
+ General bug fixes and graphical tweaks
---
I've just released Livestock Vs The Undead Lite v1.1 (free strategy game) onto Android Market and Amazon. (See screenshots attached)
I've tried to resolve all issues that had been raised and feel the game presents much more of a challenge. I've rewritten a large chunk of the graphics engine to handle a more involved playing environment. Added new characters, sounds and more features than I can list.
If you had tried it before and thought it too basic, or haven't tried it - please check out the new version and let me know if I'm it's starting to show any potential. If you liked it before, please let me know if you think any ways to improve it?
Sincerely - this project is being driven by feedback - so any is most welcome. All suggestions will be considered.
Many thanks,
Paul
Hi,
** EDIT : 04/06/2011 : Livestock Vs The Undead Lite is now completely free and available in the Android Market! Please check it out! **
I thought it'd be great to give and receive thoughts and feelings for my first ever attempt at an android tower defence type game. (Currently available on the android market.)
==========
A brief description:
"Only you can save the planet. Again. 'Cos you are good at it!
"The farm is under attack! It's an all out invasion from hordes of gruesomely reanimated dead and the animals aren't going to take it lying down.
"Fight wave after wave of increasing challenging life-challenged assailants.
Utilise each of the unique skills on offer from the livestock that are fighting your cause.
"This is a taste of an imminent future release."
==========
I am very new to all this and am keen to learn. The biggest question is : what do you think?
Cheers,
Paul
pphillips001 said:
Hi,
I thought it'd be great to give and receive thoughts and feelings for my first ever attempt at an android tower defence type game. (Currently available on the android market.)
==========
A brief description:
"Only you can save the planet. Again. 'Cos you are good at it!
"The farm is under attack! It's an all out invasion from hordes of gruesomely reanimated dead and the animals aren't going to take it lying down.
"Fight wave after wave of increasing challenging life-challenged assailants.
Utilise each of the unique skills on offer from the livestock that are fighting your cause.
"This is a taste of an imminent future release."
==========
I am very new to all this and am keen to learn. The biggest question is : what do you think?
Cheers,
Paul
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Here's what i think!
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=14104107&postcount=4
Potter1984 - I've responded here : http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1093941
Hi!
Under the superb advice given from these very forums I have released the game freely into the market.
Just search for 'Livestock vs the Undead Lite'.
Please check it out and I would appreciate any feedback.
Many thanks,
Paul
Hi,
Very nice for your first game. Is this an original game concept by you or did you 'copy' it from another game? (I know it's based on tower defense games, but never saw a 'top down' one like this)
Played it one time now till I got to level 3, then I died
some remarks
- why is the screen shifting when I move the phone around?
- tutorial screens are not very clear plus they dont stay on screen long enough. It's like: "1 pig is 1 rocket, 1 hay is 1 shield, wait a minute.. what?" and then the screen is already gone
- also, it wasn't obvious that the chickens and stuff cost 'cash'. At first I thought they only 'cost' time. And I couldnt figure out why I couldnt build any pigs, thats when I realised I needed to build up cash.
- there's also no clear way to tell how much each animal costs in cash
- level 1 is kinda boring, I think level 1 is necessary, because you should give people the time too learn the game, but it's too long. When you reach level 2 things get a lot more interesting, zombies are coming at you in higher numbers and at higher speed (i think).
- I also think zombies get more health as you progress through the levels? But there's no way to tell, so I didnt know how many chickens to place
- Last remark: When a zombie reaches the first of your 'last defense' chickens, your basicly screwed. There's nothing you can do. Maybe you should introduce a bomb or something to push the zombies back?
- And also introduce some animals that don't just shoot up. (or maybe there are some in later levels?)
Anyway, it's pretty nice for your first game. I even enjoyed it a bit, but tower defense type games can't hold my interest for very long i'm afraid.
Hope this was of some help to you.
Grtz
Hi swimon,
First of all: many thanks for your feedback.
"Very nice for your first game. Is this an original game concept by you or did you 'copy' it from another game? (I know it's based on tower defense games, but never saw a 'top down' one like this)"
It has elements of several tower defence games - I thought the vertical layout would set it out from the rest. I haven't seen any other quite like this.
"Played it one time now till I got to level 3, then I died "
Not bad for your first go!
"some remarks
- why is the screen shifting when I move the phone around? "
It allows the player to see a larger playing area that the phone's screen. I was hoping it would make the game more involving and a bit more interesting to watch.
"- tutorial screens are not very clear plus they dont stay on screen long enough. It's like: "1 pig is 1 rocket, 1 hay is 1 shield, wait a minute.. what?" and then the screen is already gone "
I agree. I think I shall add a 'tutorial' section that incorporates levels one to three. Players new to the game will then get a gentle intro to the game and repeat players could then skips these easier levels to get straight into the action.
"- also, it wasn't obvious that the chickens and stuff cost 'cash'. At first I thought they only 'cost' time. And I couldnt figure out why I couldnt build any pigs, thats when I realised I needed to build up cash. "
As above.
"- there's also no clear way to tell how much each animal costs in cash"
That was the next thing on my list to do!
"- level 1 is kinda boring, I think level 1 is necessary, because you should give people the time too learn the game, but it's too long. When you reach level 2 things get a lot more interesting, zombies are coming at you in higher numbers and at higher speed (i think)."
This should be addressed in the tutorial as mentioned above.
"- I also think zombies get more health as you progress through the levels? But there's no way to tell, so I didnt know how many chickens to place "
You are correct - the creeps (I take it you haven't gotten past the zombies yet?) do get harder each level. I did this so you'll never reach a stalemate which would take all interest out of the game. My intention is to make some shooters more powerful against some creeps than others, which should add to the strategy element.
"- Last remark: When a zombie reaches the first of your 'last defense' chickens, your basicly screwed. There's nothing you can do. Maybe you should introduce a bomb or something to push the zombies back?"
Yep. I have a number of attack methods to add.
"- And also introduce some animals that don't just shoot up. (or maybe there are some in later levels?)"
As above.
"Anyway, it's pretty nice for your first game. I even enjoyed it a bit, but tower defense type games can't hold my interest for very long i'm afraid. "
Many thanks. I know tower defence isn't everyone's flavour of game but I do appreciate you taking the time to try it out and even more so for giving me this feedback.
"Hope this was of some help to you."
Absolutely!
Cheers
Paul
pphillips001 said:
"some remarks
- why is the screen shifting when I move the phone around? "
It allows the player to see a larger playing area that the phone's screen. I was hoping it would make the game more involving and a bit more interesting to watch.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just be careful with sensor controls. It's not everyone's cup of tea first of all, a lot of people don't like it. And secondly it's very difficult to implement well (imo).
You could also easily control the camera by swyping your fingers on the screen? Maybe make it a user defined setting.
Thirdly (is that a word?): I don't really see the point of it? I don't know at what resolution you tested it, but on my Desire, I can already see every row/column so there's no need to shift?
pphillips001 said:
"- I also think zombies get more health as you progress through the levels? But there's no way to tell, so I didnt know how many chickens to place "
You are correct - the creeps (I take it you haven't gotten past the zombies yet?) do get harder each level. I did this so you'll never reach a stalemate which would take all interest out of the game. My intention is to make some shooters more powerful against some creeps than others, which should add to the strategy element.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Maybe you should change the color of the shirts of the zombies as they grow stronger, so the player knows he's facing a stronger opponent.
pphillips001 said:
"- Last remark: When a zombie reaches the first of your 'last defense' chickens, your basicly screwed. There's nothing you can do. Maybe you should introduce a bomb or something to push the zombies back?"
Yep. I have a number of attack methods to add.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You could maybe also add an option to retreat your animals. When you see your defenses are going to be breached, you can quickly change one of your chickens in for a pig or a hay stack. (or something like that)
pphillips001 said:
"- And also introduce some animals that don't just shoot up. (or maybe there are some in later levels?)"
As above.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
introduce one animal that shoots sideways, the player could then first place a hay stack and beneath it a sideways shooting animal!
Also lastly: This game asked me for root priveleges? that's a big no no! so please fix that.
You can always PM me if you update to a newer version!
Grtz
swimon said:
Just be careful with sensor controls. It's not everyone's cup of tea first of all, a lot of people don't like it. And secondly it's very difficult to implement well (imo).
You could also easily control the camera by swyping your fingers on the screen? Maybe make it a user defined setting.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm ripping out the tilt code for the next release. It's not really needed and I found it a bit distracting.
swimon said:
Thirdly (is that a word?): I don't really see the point of it? I don't know at what resolution you tested it, but on my Desire, I can already see every row/column so there's no need to shift?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As above. I'm a fellow Desireian. (Desirables?) We rock!
swimon said:
Maybe you should change the color of the shirts of the zombies as they grow stronger, so the player knows he's facing a stronger opponent.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good suggestion.
swimon said:
You could maybe also add an option to retreat your animals. When you see your defenses are going to be breached, you can quickly change one of your chickens in for a pig or a hay stack. (or something like that)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have something cunning in mind for this.
swimon said:
introduce one animal that shoots sideways, the player could then first place a hay stack and beneath it a sideways shooting animal!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is also going on the list.
swimon said:
Also lastly: This game asked me for root priveleges? that's a big no no! so please fix that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm a bit confused by this? It hooks into the wakelock and vibration permissions (both of which I have taken out of the next release) - other than that it shouldn't ask for anything else?
swimon said:
You can always PM me if you update to a newer version!
Grtz
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Will do, and thanks again. You are a star!
Great feedback.
Cheers,
Paul
heya,
yeah, don't know why it asks for root permission. I clicked deny and remember and the game still runs fine. So dunno...
The game is actually pretty addicting, but it's also really hard (maybe thats what makes it addicting...)
I already found a way to cheat though
When you see one of your shields (hay stack) is about to go down, quickly replace it with another at the moment it get's destroyed
You could also introduce downward shooting animals to kill off the last zombies of the wave who are still attacking your hay stacks
Looking forward to the new version, 'cause I'm a little confused by the cash/time system
Glad to see your taking on board all the advice and critique on board, THAT is what makes a dev a GOOD dev.
Thanks for listening and keep at it!
Got to level 5 yesterday,
even managed to place one cat and one cow
but i'm not sure the cash system is in balance, I wasn't generating enough cash to build the more powerful animals/defenses to hold back to numerous (!) zombies and vampires
potter1984 said:
Glad to see your taking on board all the advice and critique on board, THAT is what makes a dev a GOOD dev.
Thanks for listening and keep at it!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks. I am trying. I'll keep developing/tweaking for as long as I'm getting feedback (I may have doomed myself there).
swimon said:
heya,
yeah, don't know why it asks for root permission. I clicked deny and remember and the game still runs fine. So dunno...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's still puzzling me that one. I've not heard anyone else being asked for it.
swimon said:
The game is actually pretty addicting, but it's also really hard (maybe thats what makes it addicting...)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It should be even more so (on both counts) in the next rel.
swimon said:
I already found a way to cheat though
When you see one of your shields (hay stack) is about to go down, quickly replace it with another at the moment it get's destroyed
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Kind of - you'll eventually run out of money, so it's only a temporary 'feature'.
swimon said:
You could also introduce downward shooting animals to kill off the last zombies of the wave who are still attacking your hay stacks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've just updated the bullet code to handle 360 degree firing. It should start to get more interesting now.
swimon said:
Looking forward to the new version, 'cause I'm a little confused by the cash/time system
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
At the moment there is a slow cash over time increase - in case you put your first animal down in the wrong column on the first turn.
You get additional cash from shooting baddies - the more so the harder the creep.
The cooldown time is more for the hardier animal (apart from haystacks which I've kept quick cooldowns).
All this will be revealed in the tutorial.
swimon said:
Got to level 5 yesterday,
even managed to place one cat and one cow
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yay - well done! I can see I've made it too easy - I can easily fix that!
swimon said:
but i'm not sure the cash system is in balance, I wasn't generating enough cash to build the more powerful animals/defenses to hold back to numerous (!) zombies and vampires
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Perhaps more frugal animal spending may help? On it's current settings I have completed level 12 (only once though ).
Thanks again,
Paul
v1.1 Released to the market. Please see original post for details.
Regards,
Paul
nice, i'll check it out one of these days
(messing around with some roms atm...)
Grtz
swimon said:
nice, i'll check it out one of these days
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Cheers, I'd appreciate it.
swimon said:
(messing around with some roms atm...)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good luck! I've spent way too much time checking out new roms - my poor Desire is starting to have an identity crisis! XJs MIUI is my personal fave at the moment. Or is your 'messing' at a lower level?
Cheers,
Paul
I've had reports of memory issues and have tracked it down in the code.
I'll release a fix for this later today.
Regards,
Paul
v1.1a has just been released onto the market.
Please let me know if there are any further issues and I'll jump straight on them.
Regards,
Paul
v1.1b has been uploaded with further memory optimizations.
This should fix some of the issues a small number of you have reported.
Cheers,
Paul
New screenshots have been posted on the original post.
For the next release I am looking to persist current level - so when you come back to play you start at the selection screen of the last level you had reached (with the option to start from the beginning again).
I have also raised the bullets to the top level - as they were looking a little strange flying through friendlies!
I have tracked down a bug that was causing force closes when the game had be paused and the user returned.
I am also looking to add some more variety to the creeps, bullets and towers.
Any suggestions on what you'd like to see adding?
Cheers,
Paul
New version (1.2) released onto the market.
Please check it out and let me know what you think.
Cheers,
Paul
Hey guys, I believe everyone has known the BUILD conference by Microsoft pretty well and know quite a bit about Windows 8 for now. I have written a short review on the short-comings of Windows 8 and decided to share with you guys. Please leave me a comment and tell me what you think, and I'll gladly thank you in return.
http://www.seednonym.com/2011/09/major-flaws-in-windows-8-known-so-far.html
This article is written as of now and is subject to change as development continues. I'd like to know what you have in mind regarding the issues.
Thank you.
Regarding "Major Flaw no 2":
Not supporting Flash (or any other plug-ins) in IE10 when running the Metro UI is not an issue in my opinion, that is a great feature. Flash really is a disaster in general especially on smartphones and tablets. Flash has had it's time, now its time to leave Flash for HTML5 or dedicated apps.
And since the breakthrough of ipad, Flash is slowly dying, and this move by MS will speed up this process. So this is not a big issue when W8 arrives. And we'll probably see third party browsers for metro UI with Flash support (e g google chrome/firefox?) if you really need Flash.
And plug-ins is a huge security issue as well.
Regarding the other issues - they seem a bit irritating, but if these are the major flaws you have found in a alpha-OS then this looks really promising.
tjtj4444 said:
Regarding "Major Flaw no 2":
Not supporting Flash (or any other plug-ins) in IE10 when running the Metro UI is not an issue in my opinion, that is a great feature. Flash really is a disaster in general especially on smartphones and tablets. Flash has had it's time, now its time to leave Flash for HTML5 or dedicated apps.
And since the breakthrough of ipad, Flash is slowly dying, and this move by MS will speed up this process. So this is not a big issue when W8 arrives. And we'll probably see third party browsers for metro UI with Flash support (e g google chrome/firefox?) if you really need Flash.
And plug-ins is a huge security issue as well.
Regarding the other issues - they seem a bit irritating, but if these are the major flaws you have found in a alpha-OS then this looks really promising.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you for your feedback.
Yes I do agree with point #1. However most web-based applications still run on Flash and it takes time to transition over to HTML5. Flash imo hogs too much system resources hence it actually would slow down performance - a key note why Steve Jobs insisted not to incorporate in iOS.
ToonXW said:
Flash imo hogs too much system resources hence it actually would slow down performance - a key note why Steve Jobs insisted not to incorporate in iOS.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually, if you make the same banners/advertisements with the same animations in HTML5, it will use even more resources. And believe me, those banners will still be made. HTML5 and supported video codecs(patented) for the video element is also questionable.
Flash is not that bad in regard to performance(especially with the latest version of flash utilizing the GPU for acceleration).
However HTML5 is an open standard and flash is not, so that's a good reason why flash had it's time.
YoMarK said:
Actually, if you make the same banners/advertisements with the same animations in HTML5, it will use even more resources. And believe me, those banners will still be made. HTML5 and supported video codecs(patented) for the video element is also questionable.
Flash is not that bad in regard to performance(especially with the latest version of flash utilizing the GPU for acceleration).
However HTML5 is an open standard and flash is not, so that's a good reason why flash had it's time.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you for your input.
I think designing on the same base, flash could actually produce better animations as compared to HTML5 as the variety is much more made for animated transitions. Correct me if I'm wrong.
How can you judge an OS when its in beta... I remember downloading the W7 beta and it was as bad as vista
TwoSquared said:
How can you judge an OS when its in beta... I remember downloading the W7 beta and it was as bad as vista
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So you can't judge a school child when he is in primary school.
It's the same theory. Everything has to improve, and people has to point it its flaws from time to time. When it's finalized, there will be even more little flaws found. It's how disadvantages are cut down to the minimum.
Give it time to improve now. 8 months from now we'll see to the official release.
Regarding closing apps, you're not really supposed to close Metro-apps, just as Android. Look for example here:
http://www.winsupersite.com/article.../wininfo-short-takes-september-16-2011-140606
"
Top Windows 8 Question: How Do You "Close" a Metro App in Windows 8?
Answer: You don't. Windows automatically suspends apps that aren't on the screen and, over time, will shut them down as needed, so you don't have anything to worry about, or anything to micro-manage. In some ways, it works a lot like it does on Windows Phone, which makes sense, though it's a much more sophisticated system. And if a Metro app does hang, you can always kill it with Task Manager, just like you do with today's applications. I'm guessing that won't be a pressing need, based on the quality of the underlying platform, called WinRT (Windows Run Time).
"
If this works well or not in practice is something we'll need to find out of course...
tjtj4444 said:
Regarding closing apps, you're not really supposed to close Metro-apps, just as Android. Look for example here:
http://www.winsupersite.com/article.../wininfo-short-takes-september-16-2011-140606
"
Top Windows 8 Question: How Do You "Close" a Metro App in Windows 8?
Answer: You don't. Windows automatically suspends apps that aren't on the screen and, over time, will shut them down as needed, so you don't have anything to worry about, or anything to micro-manage. In some ways, it works a lot like it does on Windows Phone, which makes sense, though it's a much more sophisticated system. And if a Metro app does hang, you can always kill it with Task Manager, just like you do with today's applications. I'm guessing that won't be a pressing need, based on the quality of the underlying platform, called WinRT (Windows Run Time).
"
If this works well or not in practice is something we'll need to find out of course...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you for the input.
Yes I have read the app managing system and yes it does work like how Gingerbread manages applications. However there are certain times which you would want to shut down the number of apps as it will affect the amount of applications you have to swipe through each time to reach your desired app.
Point 5: This is amazing for Tablet point's of view, assuming they have an airplane mode. Otherwise "go directly to jail, do not pass go, do not collect $200"
For a desktop the fast resume could be useful, but for small individuals or students like myself even small increases in power bills hurt. If we have 4 devices doing this then it will knock us over our budget (yes thats how tight our budget in NZ is)
CruciasNZ said:
Point 5: This is amazing for Tablet point's of view, assuming they have an airplane mode. Otherwise "go directly to jail, do not pass go, do not collect $200"
For a desktop the fast resume could be useful, but for small individuals or students like myself even small increases in power bills hurt. If we have 4 devices doing this then it will knock us over our budget (yes thats how tight our budget in NZ is)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you for the input.
Airplane mode would just cut off the data line, however i don't really think it really consumes that much battery. for tablet in deep sleep mode it could last for days on light usage.
I liked the new windows. Internet explorer 10 is extremely fast. The switching between apps is fluid and smooth. I know multitasking is an issue but only for a select amount of people. I don't know how many people actually run more than two applications at once but for me its not an issue. You can still snap two windows side by side so I have enough to do my work while watching movie etc. btw the flash works but you have to select the internet explorer from the desktop not from metro.
So far, I've liked it. I like that it suspend tasks, saves battery that way and nothing eats up too much memory that way.
Looking forward to more improvements.
What's a signature?
utsmaster18 said:
I liked the new windows. Internet explorer 10 is extremely fast. The switching between apps is fluid and smooth. I know multitasking is an issue but only for a select amount of people. I don't know how many people actually run more than two applications at once but for me its not an issue. You can still snap two windows side by side so I have enough to do my work while watching movie etc. btw the flash works but you have to select the internet explorer from the desktop not from metro.
So far, I've liked it. I like that it suspend tasks, saves battery that way and nothing eats up too much memory that way.
Looking forward to more improvements.
What's a signature?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I see. I've read Adobe is now stepping up the game and start poking into HTML5 on top of Flash at the same time, so that problem is generally solved.
Has anyone found anything that's worth adding under the list?
I think the list is almost perfect as it is, but a small correction for #2, Windows 8 does support Flash (and other plugins) on both x86 and ARM when running in regular desktop IE10 rather than the Metro IE10. I think this makes perfect sense because you're mostly going to be using Flash with the mouse and keyboard, as the uses for Flash - games, web apps, etc - don't work too well on a touch screen anyway.
NotTarts said:
I think the list is almost perfect as it is, but a small correction for #2, Windows 8 does support Flash (and other plugins) on both x86 and ARM when running in regular desktop IE10 rather than the Metro IE10. I think this makes perfect sense because you're mostly going to be using Flash with the mouse and keyboard, as the uses for Flash - games, web apps, etc - don't work too well on a touch screen anyway.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you, will update as it is.
TwoSquared said:
How can you judge an OS when its in beta... I remember downloading the W7 beta and it was as bad as vista
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not sure which beta you used but I had 7 as my main OS since beta, and it was leagues better than vista.
The decision to remove the start menu and its dedicated search along with apps not being designed to close entirely are the ones that are bugging me the most. For now.
ToonXW said:
Thank you, will update as it is.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Am i right in assuming that windows 8 RTM, will have both the desktop and metro sides? If they do that's retarded. I thought the desktop side was there atm to provide compatibility with win32 applications, and in the final build would be hidden
AndroHero said:
Am i right in assuming that windows 8 RTM, will have both the desktop and metro sides? If they do that's retarded. I thought the desktop side was there atm to provide compatibility with win32 applications, and in the final build would be hidden
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
On the contrary, hahah. Yes, you will have both desktop and Metro UI.