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Google has been known for a long time to perpetually store all searches by IP, with the ability to assemble a shockingly complete picture of people by what they search on. Recently the Google CEO regurgitated the view that, "If you're not doing something wrong, you have nothing to worry about." (look it up)
Well I like Android and the development excitement, as I've used Debian exclusively for 12 years. But I am gravely concerned about privacy issues were I to buy an Android. I've hardly even used Google as a search engine. (Clusty)
Has any research been done on this? Does no one else share this concern?
You can disable this function of your Google Account. After logging in click the 'Dashboard' link that says 'View Data Stored With This Account'. Scroll to the bottom of the page where it says 'Web History' and you can disable/clear it for your account.
If using Google as your search engine makes you nervous then this should really put a bee in your bonnet:
Google and the NSA: Necessary Allies http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/188558/google_and_the_nsa_necessary_allies.html
Of course it's for 'OUR' protection.
Building on what mr_skot said... Google's CEO also made it clear that user information is only linked to you for a few months, then it is scrubbed and is made anonymous for more time. I can't remember if he said it was something like 18 months or a few years. Either way, they're serious about maintaining privacy, and you can bet that after the Chinese attack a couple weeks ago, they'll be beefing up security and changing their protocols.
If you want to remain completely anonymous, I suggest not using google, or google talk, or syncing your phone etc.
basically, you give a huge chunk of personal information by using google's services...
THAT was one of my hesitations of switching from winmo to android, but I got over it.
Real tin-foil hat wearer's don't use cell phones! For communication, they hand deliver letters, at secret drop off points.
What exactly are you guys doing to be so hesitant about Google? The personal information on your phone is so dire that you don't want them to view it? What will they do with this information unless you are doing something illegal? Other than that, I highly doubt they are just going to 'target' you purposely - the only way I could see you being so in danger is that they get hacked, and people go through their servers or whatever.
But what are the chances, that you and the millions of other people out there are going to be in danger? Maybe because I don't use my phone for.. bad purposes per-say, or search anything bad, I have no worry. I'm curious as to why people fear Google, though, maybe I'm being to open minded.
The point is in being comfortable with a stranger being able to know a lot of information about you ay the stroke of a key.
I would worry more about T-Mobile than Google, since they are the ones that monitor U for the Gov.
mrbkkt1 said:
The point is in being comfortable with a stranger being able to know a lot of information about you ay the stroke of a key.
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Yes but the thing is, who cares about you specifically. What person in the GOOG HQ do you believe actually 'thinks' about you enough to want to be able to access any information about yourself. No one wants your info, so no one will try to find you - your information - or where you live.
I guess it is disturbing to people that they CAN do that, but T-Mobile can too, AT&T can too, and of course any other carrier has the same information that Google has, although Google could be more precise, or they could be more evil. What are you afraid of Google having? Your contact numbers? Your SMS? Your.. emails? Out of all those, I honestly don't care if they have it. Google isn't the only company with your location, so it isn't something I want to list.
There is probably something I'm not understanding here, though, and someone can probably easily explain how I am completely wrong about everything.. but this is my perspective. I believe if they don't care about you, then they wont dig into your life.
It's an invasion of privacy--though of course, your government invades your privacy all the time and has access to plenty of down-and-deep information about you. It's understandable some people would be anxious about it, whether or not they've done wrong. Mind you, this isn't exclusive to Google or anything. Microsoft collects information about you when possible. I don't doubt Apple et al does too.
I'm a bit leery about it myself; you sacrifice privacy for convenience and ease of use (google services/apps are great and easy to use, synchronization with your Android phone is excellent, etc), then you find yourself giving up more and more information. It's not the most comfortable state.
Eclair~ said:
What exactly are you guys doing to be so hesitant about Google? The personal information on your phone is so dire that you don't want them to view it? What will they do with this information unless you are doing something illegal? Other than that, I highly doubt they are just going to 'target' you purposely - the only way I could see you being so in danger is that they get hacked, and people go through their servers or whatever.
But what are the chances, that you and the millions of other people out there are going to be in danger? Maybe because I don't use my phone for.. bad purposes per-say, or search anything bad, I have no worry. I'm curious as to why people fear Google, though, maybe I'm being to open minded.
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Congratulations, you win the Daily Mail award.
If you feel that only people who are doing something wrong need to worry then you can't really be against CCTV cameras on every corner. How about tagging all your shopping so your waste can be tracked or chipping everyone so they can be tracked at any time, in real time. I mean, if you're not doing anything wrong why would you worry
There *are* things that aren't illegal that you might not want any Tom, **** or Harry knowing. I can tell you now that any Google employee with access to that data is worth $$$ to a private detective - but then all Google employees are angels and never break the law and don't have gambling debts or money problems.
While the corporation (google) might not be particularly interested in the individual, the corporation is made up of individuals who may not have the same values as good honest folk. That's something you can't guard against.
Never ever use the argument that if you're not doing anything wrong then you have nothing to fear. 'Wrong' is a value judgment, subject to change at any time. 'Illegal' varies from place to place, country to country.
SC
ScaredyCat said:
Never ever use the argument that if you're not doing anything wrong then you have nothing to fear. 'Wrong' is a value judgment, subject to change at any time. 'Illegal' varies from place to place, country to country.
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Exactly. And this was exactly the assertion that Google's CEO made this December. I repeat a famous old wisdom: 'Those who would trade freedom for security, deserve neither.'
To those naive ones who can't understand the privacy ramifications, suffice it to say that my business is none of their business. You can not understand how a fascist regime operates, or know what it was like behind the Iron Curtain. I was in intel, and do not like the unConstitutional changes to the law that were made in the past 9 years, and so I want to protect myself. You can open your life like a book as you like... eh, maybe it'll be OK. Or maybe your divorcing wife or someone suing you will find things you didn't want.
I am just trying to find out what kind of hooks Android may have that may cause it to store information unjustifiably and/or send it back to the Mother Ship. Of primary concern is the OS, and secondary is Google apps. I am assuming that the nav app is a no-go.
Before anyone lazily asserts that my OS or browser is more vulnerable, I've run Debian exclusively for 12 years, secured using the NSA procedure. I have used Google for search only a few times since it started, owing to their atrocious data retention policies (I use Clusty.com), and do not have a Google account. I don't trust assurances that data is scrubbed because they make much of their money from the information.
I do use T-Mobile, as they are one of only two companies that refused to cooperate with Bush's unConstitutional warrantless wiretapping. (Qworst was the other one) Oh, you think warrantless wiretapping is legal? Then why last year did Congress pass a law specifically exempting Big Telecom from Constitutional challenges? (which BTW, Obama voted for; that was it for me with him)
Has any research been done on the security of Android? I couldn't find any. (I am aware of the HTC leak, which was squashed by Cyanogen)
No one else has thought about this?
Oddly enough, using custom ROMs makes me somewhat less concerned about privacy. Being able to pick and choose components of the software does help.
Afraid I got nothing else to add, though. Ultimately, you can either put on your tinfoil hat and cut yourself off from all online contact (because someone, somewhere, is always collecting information) or resign yourself to it.
And you seriously believe Google are the ONLY ones doing this? at least we know about it.
How do companies get their 'market research'?....
I believe we have nothing to worry about, but in this day and age, to expect to be completely anonymous and 'off the grid' is about as plausible as Apple employees using Android devices in the office...
I wrote a long post then decided to delete it cause Im not going to change anyones minds on a message board anyways. So Ill simply say, no, I dont worry about it.
Amdathlonuk said:
And you seriously believe Google are the ONLY ones doing this? at least we know about it.
How do companies get their 'market research'?....
I believe we have nothing to worry about, but in this day and age, to expect to be completely anonymous and 'off the grid' is about as plausible as Apple employees using Android devices in the office...
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So... your solution is to give up and resign yourself to allowing a Police State. No thanks, I don't agree.
ThatSearchEngineThatEveryoneUses is a gigantic corporation which will vacuum up every search you do and correlate them to assemble a frighteningly accurate picture of who you are. Nah, fsck that. I'll stick with Clusty and off-OS's like Debian.
Resign and argue with me all you want.
My thoughts...
1. Seperate your data. Its why I refuse to useGoogle Chrome. I already have enough info on Google without them knowing every single purchase , website visit , and log in info for everywhere I go.
It may be futile but its at least an effort.
2. No company tosses information. I dont care how many times I press clear or delete on Google settings. My personalized info is sitting on a server somewhere and will be until that info becomes worthless.
3. I have zero desire to contribute to skynet =-).
Im fully convinced data supported profiling will be in the hands of some ridiculously powerful AIs and Im not in the mood to have a bunch of robots know what Im going to do before I do it.
Lastly I really do think its absolutely sad how easily people forego there privacy like it shoudl be of no concern.
Your GSM operator can track and record all your calls, and can be subpoenaed for your general location at any time. Would you trust them more than Google?
xManMythLegend said:
My thoughts...
1. Seperate your data. Its why I refuse to useGoogle Chrome. I already have enough info on Google without them knowing every single purchase , website visit , and log in info for everywhere I go.
It may be futile but its at least an effort.
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Except Google Chrome does not collect enough information to discern such a thing, and your ISP can find out all that (and more, as long as it's not SSL-encrypted) anyway.
Everyone put on your tin foil hats!
Has any research been done on the security of Android? I couldn't find any.
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Yeah, it's all, you know, here: http://android.git.kernel.org/ . Dig the source and see if Android's sending any rouge information to anyone.
Quantumstate said:
So... your solution is to give up and resign yourself to allowing a Police State. No thanks, I don't agree.
ThatSearchEngineThatEveryoneUses is a gigantic corporation which will vacuum up every search you do and correlate them to assemble a frighteningly accurate picture of who you are. Nah, fsck that. I'll stick with Clusty and off-OS's like Debian. Resign and argue all you want.
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And it's not already?
What about CCTV? all the online purchases you make?
Credit card details?
Mortgage?
Electoral Roll?
National Insurance details...
Christ, they already know more about us than you can think.
Do a search for your name on the internet, I even found a site listing my marriage to my ex-wife, the children we had and when/where they were born......
I won't KNOWINGLY contribute to them collecting my data, but I'm not going to get paranoid about it either.
I guess this is kind of a question for the XDA community at large, since you are considered the "rooting gods" by us mere mortals. That being said... I've had enough experience over the years and I've rooted both WinMo and Android phones, including my Hero (running ic3 right now). What bothers me is the push by some people (on other forums, like the Sprint fan page on Facebook) for anyone and everyone to root their phone because "it's like jailbreaking an iPhone" (which is nonsense, since most people jailbreak iPhones to install apps that Apple refuses to put in the App Store) or "because the carriers don't want you to have access to all your phone's features" (more nonsense). Anyone technical enough knows that rooting is like giving someone permanent root access on a Linux or UNIX system, with the risk of doing serious damage if you don't know what you're doing. So, looking for an opinion here, is it wise for "Joe (or Jill) Average User" to attempt to root their phone?
And, as a second question, once rooted, it's always been my assumption that warranties are voided, you lose Total Equipment Protection, etc., but some (supposedly smart and informed people) say that they are not. Opinions again, please?
mjb5406 said:
I guess this is kind of a question for the XDA community at large, since you are considered the "rooting gods" by us mere mortals. That being said... I've had enough experience over the years and I've rooted both WinMo and Android phones, including my Hero (running ic3 right now). What bothers me is the push by some people (on other forums, like the Sprint fan page on Facebook) for anyone and everyone to root their phone because "it's like jailbreaking an iPhone" (which is nonsense, since most people jailbreak iPhones to install apps that Apple refuses to put in the App Store) or "because the carriers don't want you to have access to all your phone's features" (more nonsense). Anyone technical enough knows that rooting is like giving someone permanent root access on a Linux or UNIX system, with the risk of doing serious damage if you don't know what you're doing. So, looking for an opinion here, is it wise for "Joe (or Jill) Average User" to attempt to root their phone?
And, as a second question, once rooted, it's always been my assumption that warranties are voided, you lose Total Equipment Protection, etc., but some (supposedly smart and informed people) say that they are not. Opinions again, please?
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I think only people who are comfortable rooting should root.
The warranty is null and void if you root the phone.
mjb5406 said:
So, looking for an opinion here, is it wise for "Joe (or Jill) Average User" to attempt to root their phone?
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Is it wise? That depends on the user deciding if he/she should root. Should they be given the same opportunity as someone that's more tech savvy than the average user? Sure, why not. Android encourages users to fully customize there devices, if that means getting one's hand dirty to get the most of your phone, then give it go. However, if the end user is afraid about "bricking" or "voiding" there warranty; then it's probably best they stick with the factory defaults.
At the end of the day; it's the user's choice. Rooting of course allows one to get the maximum potential out of the phone, non-rooting allows for a decent experience. However, it's quite obvious that once someone see's the many wonderful things that comes with rooting; they too are often enticed and decide to take the plunge. Which, ultimately is a good thing; they're able to join a community like XDA, learn new things about there device and about computers/hacking that they thought they never could, and of course, they now get to enjoy the benefits of rooting.
mjb5406 said:
And, as a second question, once rooted, it's always been my assumption that warranties are voided, you lose Total Equipment Protection, etc., but some (supposedly smart and informed people) say that they are not. Opinions again, please?
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The thing is, even Sprint employees root there phones, so at the end of the day, its comes down to the sales/tech person at your local Sprint store. People on here have said that if your phone is broken and you take it in to get it serviced without flashing the Sprint RUU that Sprint will say you've voided your warranty because they can't work with the "modified" phone (e.g. rooted, etc).
However, this is relative from person to person and from store to store. Like I said, pending on the Sprint rep/tech -- they can choose to service your "modified" phone or tell you that you've voided your warranty and that they won't help you. Of course; to remedy this, you just need to go home; flash the latest Sprint RUU and go back to the store -- then they can't complain.
So, if you're worried about voiding your warrenty or that Sprint will freak out, flash the latest RUU before going into your local Sprint store... if you have a good rapport with your Sprint reps/techs, it shouldn't matter if you're phones rooted or not though.
You cannot compare the iphone to the android on a operating system level because android is free under the GPL and by "rooting" the operating system only means that you enabled an option that was otherwise disabled by the source for the end users protection, not because its in any violation of laws like the Iphone.
Rooting the device only opens opportunities for more options on a less limited field rather than being on a more limited field with little options. The iphone is basically like a "Nascar Vehichle" its tagged and ridiculed with many logos and flare, It's commercialized in such a way that not only does jail braking and unlocking violate the companies terms of use but other companies that own the hardware inside the device. My speculation on the sprint fan club is this...
There are three people in the tech field. People who use their equipment,p eople who play with it and people who do both. I do both.. which one are you?
Powers16 said:
You cannot compare the iphone to the android on a operating system level because android is free under the GPL and by "rooting" the operating system only means that you enabled an option that was otherwise disabled by the source for the end users protection, not because its in any violation of laws like the Iphone.
Rooting the device only opens opportunities for more options on a less limited field rather than being on a more limited field with little options. The iphone is basically like a "Nascar Vehichle" its tagged and ridiculed with many logos and flare, It's commercialized in such a way that not only does jail braking and unlocking violate the companies terms of use but other companies that own the hardware inside the device. My speculation on the sprint fan club is this...
There are three people in the tech field. People who use their equipment,p eople who play with it and people who do both. I do both.. which one are you?
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No question... I do both. But, then again, I've been doing this for years. My issue is that it seems like there are two groups of "rooters": Those that do it and understand what they are doing and the risks that are involved and those that do it, tell other people to do it, and really don't understand the ramifications other than to say it's "cool". There has even been a request for someone to post rooting FAQ on the official Sprint page on Facebook (which is very stupid) and lots of talk about people want to root because they want "free tethering" (also very stupid); to talk about this on a Sprint-monitored forum is not a good idea, IMHO, and to tell people to root their phones when all they get is "What's rooting?" as a reply tells me that those people should probably be content just using their phones and, if they run into problems, go to Sprint for assistance. It's usually easy to tell who has a more technical understanding of the phone just by the content of their posts.
mjb5406 said:
No question... I do both. But, then again, I've been doing this for years. My issue is that it seems like there are two groups of "rooters": Those that do it and understand what they are doing and the risks that are involved and those that do it, tell other people to do it, and really don't understand the ramifications other than to say it's "cool". There has even been a request for someone to post rooting FAQ on the official Sprint page on Facebook (which is very stupid) and lots of talk about people want to root because they want "free tethering" (also very stupid); to talk about this on a Sprint-monitored forum is not a good idea, IMHO, and to tell people to root their phones when all they get is "What's rooting?" as a reply tells me that those people should probably be content just using their phones and, if they run into problems, go to Sprint for assistance. It's usually easy to tell who has a more technical understanding of the phone just by the content of their posts.
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This is completely true. There are a LOT of people on here who do things without reading or thinking. I think it was when the Hero dropped in price. Everyone bought it, they started googling it, they found XDA, and started posting left and right. I got my Hero the day it came out, but I didn't root it until January 2010. I was a little hesitant and scared, but I did it.... and I'm glad I did.
Who's to blame for delays on updates like gingerbread or bootloader? lawsuit reveals that google has a lot of control over moto and has final say as to when, how and if things get released. Check out the article below and give your opinions please. I personally refuse to let them keep getting data off of me for free and making money off of me, without atleast paying part of my data fees on my bill or giving me a discount. IMO droidwall/disable there data gathering and just use good old fashioned a-gps(like back on windows mobile) if you need to get a lock on your gps.
t h i s i s m y n e x t . c o m /2011/05/12/google-android-skyhook-lawsuit-motorola-samsung/
aerojoe420 said:
Who's to blame for delays on updates like gingerbread or bootloader? lawsuit reveals that google has a lot of control over moto and has final say as to when, how and if things get released. Check out the article below and give your opinions please. I personally refuse to let them keep getting data off of me for free and making money off of me, without atleast paying part of my data fees on my bill or giving me a discount. IMO droidwall/disable there data gathering and just use good old fashioned a-gps(like back on windows mobile) if you need to get a lock on your gps.
t h i s i s m y n e x t . c o m /2011/05/12/google-android-skyhook-lawsuit-motorola-samsung/
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Google is not who dictates it generally goes in this order
Carriers
Manufacturers
Google
If you read about Google I/O this week then you know that google is creating a plan to allow phones to get updated for 1.5 years after release. Google encourages updates it is carriers that don't.
aerojoe420 said:
Who's to blame for delays on updates like gingerbread or bootloader? lawsuit reveals that google has a lot of control over moto and has final say as to when, how and if things get released. Check out the article below and give your opinions please. I personally refuse to let them keep getting data off of me for free and making money off of me, without atleast paying part of my data fees on my bill or giving me a discount. IMO droidwall/disable there data gathering and just use good old fashioned a-gps(like back on windows mobile) if you need to get a lock on your gps.
t h i s i s m y n e x t . c o m /2011/05/12/google-android-skyhook-lawsuit-motorola-samsung/
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you might want to read the article a few times to make sure you understand it. google is not telling moto to not release gingerbread and to lock the bootloader
I may have misread it from what I gathered, they delay some updates because they tell moto/samsung that they need to pass the approval process if they want the google suite on them. they didn't approve the phones delaying there release because they had skyhook instead of googles data gathering stuff on it?
"Motorola wrote back to Skyhook, explaining that Motorola’s license to use Google’s apps requires those apps to collect location data, and that Motorola’s carrier contracts require Google’s Android apps be installed on its phones. If using XPS put Motorola out of compliance with Android and thus unable to license the Google apps, it would violate its carrier contracts.”
I'm not saying I'd rather have skyhook gathering data from me. It just seems to me that we'll never get the bootloader unlocked because of contractual agreements between carrier/moto/google and they all have there own agendas, in googles case they want you to have there data gathering software.
ATT has final say over bootloader issue. Moto has already said they will release it late this year, but with the disclaimer it would be up to the carriers to allow it for "their" phones. Will not happen through those channels. If the Dev's don't get it, then we don't.
It should be expected that almost every phone in the near future will be like this. The carriers are using this to protect what they consider to be their property. The bootloader is a direct and intentional way to stop "us" from doing all the hacks we do that circumvent things they either charge for, or capabilities they have crippled for whatever reason. Themes and apk files that allow personalization is all they want done. Yes they are watching, and looking for things they need to lock in future releases. They ain't playin no more.
I'd like to see accountability from all parties. There is far too much accepted complacency and slothfulness amongst all of the accused.
I don't want to hop on board with the Google devices just to get the latest updates. There may be other phones with certain specs or strong homebrew development communities that I'd like to participate in. It shouldn't take too much for OEMs to mangle the firmware with their "skins" and for carriers to lace these updates with bloatware.
As long as they can all hurry it up, I'll be happy. Right now I'm discontent and frustrated. And I'm sure I'm not alone with these sentiments... ugh...
benefits of a bootloader we could hack are??
you mean like opening the radio for the full functionality that has been crippled? They increased it to about half its capabilities on the last update. Or loading diff drivers at boot to fix problems some folks are having. Maybe loading a different version Droid. Need to do the whole rom, not just packages. Look at threads in Dev section to see the things we can't mod because some or all of the stuff needed is hidden inside. And the things that are hacked (webtop,tethering, etc.), might see them locked by the bootloader in the future. If they make or can make or save money by keeping it from dev's, this is going to be their path to lock it down.
The new sensation just released is "locked" also. part of the new world order,,lol.
I don't care about Carrier IQ or who did remove it, Carrier IQ is suppose to help sprint and sprint already has a network to track people and they own the network, they can look at your browsing history and text messages.
Hell they might keep log on calls but they might have limited access to your phone to check on the signal strengths and CIQ is suppose to help sprint get better coverage.
So please stop giving people false hope
Hmmmmmmmmmmmm interesting very interesting
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA Premium App
.... Did you guys see who was first ?
Removing it makes the device run faster with no ill side effects, so I'm in.
bigray327 said:
Removing it makes the device run faster with no ill side effects, so I'm in.
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That because of the Ext4, tweaks and Overclocking
bigray327 said:
Removing it makes the device run faster with no ill side effects, so I'm in.
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Is there a comparison somewhere, or are we just assuming?
Serious question, not being sarcastic.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
BWFBezerk said:
Is there a comparison somewhere, or are we just assuming?
Serious question, not being sarcastic.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
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Systems and Frameworks with no CIQ scored higher in benchmarks back when we first started removing it, but it's been so long that I can't remember by how much.
Do we even know who is responsible maybe it was samsung and they do not have access to all that data like sprint does other than by using a program like CIQ. Not sure if its in other samsung phones but maybe sprint is the only one that let them include it?
Before people start jumping on the "Keep it" or "Remove it" bandwagons, they should probably educate themselves on the product. People can simply go to their website and inform themselves before making said decision (the company is pretty open about what their products do). I personally don't care if it is there or not. I don't believe Sprint is even taking advantage of the full capability of Carrier IQ ( Some of the logging and such is off by default).
On another note, Carrier IQ has the potential to collect metrics about much more the signal strength; this isn't the only purpose of the software. And depending on what it collects, how it collects, and how often, it can certainly lead to performance and battery degradation.
Finally, I think it would be smarter if Sprint was upfront about the benefits of such metric collecting software on their devices, AND gave the customer the ability to opt in or out. I actually opted into something similar back in my Windows Mobile days (albeit the company payed me each month for opting in. It was a few bucks each month, and basically covered the cost of my data plan). Software like this CAN BE BENEFICIAL!! My 2 cents...
Ryan
Benchmarks only help show improvements in tweaks imo. Real world my phone feels the same whether im hittin 2000 or 2500 on quadrant. Not to mention I saw 2600+ well before ciq removal goin back to one of the leaked froyo builds.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA Premium App
Ciq was not being used at all really.. but the service was running. Killing extra running services that are useless is always a good thing an noone can really argue that. The paranoia behind CIQ was propaganda for the most part. It has/had potential to be infringing, but sprint doesn't need it to track us or infringe on our privacy. I am certain that battery life, smoothness, and stability have all increased since removal. It's my opinion, and that's all that matters... my latest rom is by far the smoothest and most stable I've ever used. Is it noCIQ? Not entirely, but I will continue to remove it because I feel like its part of the equation.
So yea bull**** sorta, but it makes people feel good and it makes my phone feel good..
I'm with the noobnl about this CIQ paranoia. If you have an android phone, Google and Sprint already have your entire contact list, emails, all your locations, your list of apps, visited web sites, etc, WITHOUT using any spyware. As I understand it CIQ gives them lots of data about network parameters that help Sprint tune their network. I'm all for that.
I haven't seen a direct performance and battery life comparison between an identical rom with and without CIQ. I also don't care about benchmarks, I just want a phone that doesn't lag and has a battery that lasts all day.
Seems to me that if you are concerned about CIQ spying on you, you probably shouldn't use a smartphone in the first place.....maybe you shouldn't even carry a cell phone.
CIQ = Unproven threat
Built-in FM Radio = Vapor
Built-in TV-OUT = Vapor
EXT4 OFF over EXT4 ON/RFS = sacrifice stability for e-peen scores (lack of best practices mentality).
It probably does collect information that could benefit us, sprint, service, support, products ect. BUT, since it's off by default, it's not doing much, so its better in my opinion to have it removed.
Sent from my SPH-D700
As long as I've had ****ty 3g speeds and having to resend text multiple times because they failed to go through 2 or 3 times before I'm pretty convinced Sprint don't give 2 ****s about how good my service is. I'll go without CIQ anyday.
noobnl said:
I don't care about Carrier IQ or who did remove it, Carrier IQ is suppose to help sprint and sprint already has a network to track people and they own the network, they can look at your browsing history and text messages.
Hell they might keep log on calls but they might have limited access to your phone to check on the signal strengths and CIQ is suppose to help sprint get better coverage.
So please stop giving people false hope
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Lol thanks noobni I like your style just read the request bout you helping with cm7 an the discussion about ciq then I saw this thread had too laugh.
I honestly don't think it's as malicious as the ACS team put it, but it does slow things down (even if by a little). And the less services running in the background for myself, the better.
I'm not sure where I stand I see no performance improvement with no ciq. How ever sprint hasn't stolen my identity either so mabye its not such a big deal
Just thought I would throw in my 2cents on this topic.
Facts we publicly know:
CarrierIQ has access to every aspect of interaction between the device and the user.
CarrierIQ has the ability to log all data it has access to.
CarrierIQ has the ability to transmit all data it has access to.
Removal of CarrierIQ, as stated by both Sprint & Samsung, will void your warranty.
What Software packages of this type are capable of:
Logging and transmission of data may be enabled without notification of the user at any time via alpha-numeric string sent via SMS or MMS, via the CDMA Network, WiFi or Bluetooth.
The ability to disable geo-tagging in the latest FROYO release. Now CarrierIQ has the ability to know where you take your pictures. It may even have the ability to transmit said pictures along with its embedded GPS information.
It has the ability to monitor call information, tower location, signal strength, did the call drop, etc., to improve the Sprint network. But CarrierIQ is so invasive that it has the ability to also know, what number you were talking to, what name if any it is associated with in your contacts, how often and how long you talk to that number, are they also your friend on social networking sites if you sync with those sites. Why does Sprint need this level of "metrics"?
Does it know whats on your calendar? How many alarms you set and what for? Why does Sprint need to know this?
Every application you use, the type, how often and for how long. Why?
Every key stroke via hardware or software based keyboards. Every every text message you send or receive, every user name, every password can now be logged.
The possibilities are almost endless.
As we all know, Sprint is not the most "secure" wireless carrier. Sprint's past is riddled with employee's "stealing" customer information and fraud. Can you actually tell me with a straight face that you trust them with this type of invasive capability? Or look at it another way, can you trust the source code, the or those who hack for malicious purposes? Think identity theft, think personal and family safety.
I'm not worried about Sprint gathering info. Anyone with a smart/cell phone, internet, cable tv, or walks outside is already having their activities monitored. But I put custom ROMs on my phones because I want a streamlined experience that I like. Take out what I don't need and give me only what I want. If CIQ were that beneficial to Sprint, they would tell us why we should keep it in our ROMs. They know it's been taken out in a lot of ROMs, they're not blind. As far as I can see it is one less running service and that means better performance and battery. I consider it bloatware. If you're gonna argue that CIQ removal is unnecessary, then so are the Sprint apps noone uses..
Also, the EVO has CIQ, so it's not just a Samsung thing. And the noCIQ ROM I have on my wife's EVO runs smooth as butter and has excellent battery life. Of course it's more than just the noCIQ, but every little bit helps.
Seems to me the only people that would argue against CIQ removal are Sprint advocates and those jealous they didn't figure out how to do it.
So hypothetically is there any way to enable only the basic 'metrics' collecting as it pertains only to signal strength, etc, and remove the more specific data mining? My disgust with all surveillance aside, I think this is an issue because this is created by a third party, therefore I am guessing they have access to anything it could access, even if they dont use it already, who are THEY selling this to? I really dont think this has a lot to do with sprint and homeland insecurity breaking your door down for whatever it is you do, but more for the typical corporate data mining for marketing, and other BS... kind of like how FB's ads are predictive based on your friends, likes, etc. This is what I would like to lose. I also really doubt they cannot collect this information using servers on their side, instead of making our phones do all the work (if they were polled), we all know all carriers, isp's , etc can track and record pretty much everything we do, google does it, but thats part of the reason for having an android. As far as law enforcement goes, they can already get anything that would be relevant in a real court on their side, now analyzing your personality and behavior and schedule is the crap that 'law enforcement' has taken too far... think 1984.
Anyways, so I guess it boils down to this, is there a way to keep only the signal strength features, IF they cause us little to nothing as far as battery or performance? I dont mind that stuff, but the more invasive aspects, I dont like making it any easier for a pig or marketing douche to figure out how to better sell to me until they decide to lock me up I have seen CIQ removed in parts (Chris41g?), but it would be nice to have a breakdown of what is kept and what is removed (Chris if you already have, sorry haven't looked at your thread lateley, but might today ).
oh, and final bit, the reason I am so skeptical about the third party aspect is that that enables corporations, and the government, to point the finger at someone else, and in Govts case, access info they would need a warrant for otherwise (even if they only had to get it after the fact)... this is how FBI and CIA share information, the 'patriot' acts and the others that went with it pretty much set this up, we dont really have privicy anymore, unless you wanna join Ice-T and the lo-Teks.
Read here.... http://www.wpcentral.com/mercenary-hackers-hackingteam-claim-full-control-over-windows-phone. Not sure how to feel about this??? If true then there's definately hope for unlocking more WP8 handsets yet at the same time with all the NSA crap going on and concerns about privacy and security...WTF??? Reading around various forums and sites I am actually surprised how many people are NOT interested in unlocking their devices naming security as their number one reason for switching to the WP8 platform. In all the time I've spent here on the forums, with the exception of a few shady posts by no one of any consequence, I have never seen any maliciousness in the the search for exploits and attempts to unlock devices. If anything it almost seems like a game between devs and MS/OEMS and it wouldn't surprise me one bit if some of the devs here were offered opportunities by those same entities; if not then our gain, MS's loss. However this article got me thinking about the possibilities and implications of any exploits or unlocks found and just wondering what others thought... As for my mindset....I paid for my device with hard earned cash therefore it should be mine to F up as I see fit and I will deal with the consequences like a big boy.
Microsoft buying Apple is much more plausible that what is in there.
Part of having a secret surveillance plan is to actually keep the plan secret.
I doubt the group "responsible" for this would post their achievements on the internet, provided they are supported by the government.
tonbonz said:
Read here.... http://www.wpcentral.com/mercenary-hackers-hackingteam-claim-full-control-over-windows-phone. ... As for my mindset....I paid for my device with hard earned cash therefore it should be mine to F up as I see fit and I will deal with the consequences like a big boy.
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You and folk like you are in the insignificant minority of the population
There are far to many people that will quite happily blame MS / OEMs / Networks for any and all problems regardless of who actually broke it.
The other thing is said networks / OEMs don't want you arsing about with their phone, for example, ATT take great pride in being able to charge you for a service that is free, if the phone was unlocked that would stop and ATT would be out of pocket. They pull out of WP arena and rollocks your fathers uncle, MS loses market share.
it sucks, but such is life, now that MS has locked down the market place with from what I can tell is completely impervious to abuse, I doubt very much they could give a $h!t what you do to the platform and if you can unlock it, they do however care about market share which is where the networks come in...
Oh, that's pretty plausible, actually. Even if you assume it's for every device on every version of the OS, I'd still be willing to believe it. Microsoft has done well on security with WP8, hardening the OS (NT in general) over the last decade or so to remove vulns, and using pretty good sandboxing of WP8 apps to minimize attack surface. With that said, there are still items being found, and patched (at least on the PC), regularly in Windows. Some of those vulnerabilities will be present and reachable on WP8 as well, and given how slowly phone updates roll out, I wouldn't be surprised if there's a known but un-patched issue being exploited. For that matter, it could be a true zero-day - something Microsoft is completely unaware of, at least when the exploit was first used - although I think that's less likely.
dazza9075 said:
You and folk like you are in the insignificant minority of the population
There are far to many people that will quite happily blame MS / OEMs / Networks for any and all problems regardless of who actually broke it.
The other thing is said networks / OEMs don't want you arsing about with their phone, for example, ATT take great pride in being able to charge you for a service that is free, if the phone was unlocked that would stop and ATT would be out of pocket. They pull out of WP arena and rollocks your fathers uncle, MS loses market share.
it sucks, but such is life, now that MS has locked down the market place with from what I can tell is completely impervious to abuse, I doubt very much they could give a $h!t what you do to the platform and if you can unlock it, they do however care about market share which is where the networks come in...
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I'm used to being the minority, in a world full of sheep I'd much rather be a wolf, but insignificant? Harsh... Of course the security of the platform is probably the biggest selling point MS had to offer the networks and with perfect timing. I'm sure it's helped increase market shares when everyone's worried about keeping their data secure. As for the marketplace, I am constantly amazed at the apps being created but use very few myself. My kid spends more time on my Lumia than I do; using the Kid's Room feature to play games. Another brilliant "security" feature and one of the first features I point out to any parent asking about the platform. Anyways, knowing the work done here and intentions behind it, seeing that some group possibly gained full access to the platform simply for the purpose of "spying" for anyone that can pay their fees kinda p***ed me off and wondered what others thoughts were...
"Mercenary hackers claim full control over Windows Phone"
and my grandpa told me he had sex with Lili Marleen... but who know... maybe has maybe not
tonbonz said:
I'm used to being the minority, in a world full of sheep I'd much rather be a wolf, but insignificant? Harsh... Of course the security of the platform is probably the biggest selling point MS had to offer the networks and with perfect timing. I'm sure it's helped increase market shares when everyone's worried about keeping their data secure. As for the marketplace, I am constantly amazed at the apps being created but use very few myself. My kid spends more time on my Lumia than I do; using the Kid's Room feature to play games. Another brilliant "security" feature and one of the first features I point out to any parent asking about the platform. Anyways, knowing the work done here and intentions behind it, seeing that some group possibly gained full access to the platform simply for the purpose of "spying" for anyone that can pay their fees kinda p***ed me off and wondered what others thoughts were...
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aye, we are significant in our world but there are a lot more numpties out there then there are of us
GoodDayToDie said:
I wouldn't be surprised if there's a known but un-patched issue being exploited..
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I totally agree with you but until I see something concrete these are only words...or like I can say in Italian:
fatti, non pugnette!:laugh: (facts, no word please)
Oh, to be sure. Still, it actually gives me a little hope for finding a universal "jailbreak" hack... although I'd prefer one that isn't remotely exploitable.