Database Users

Use or not swap file in SD card

Hi, I've searched the forum but found no answer. Searched google and found contradictory answers.
Should I use a swap file in SD card?
What are the advantages and disadvantages?
Thanks

brk said:
Hi, I've searched the forum but found no answer. Searched google and found contradictory answers.
Should I use a swap file in SD card?
What are the advantages and disadvantages?
Thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Advantage: Allows more multitasking due to more memory use from the sd card.
Disadvantage: Shortens the sd card life.
If you plan to use swap or A2SD, I recommend getting a class 6 sd card. Some people are opposed to swap, some people are all up for it. It's just up to your preference. For me, swap is just nice that an app doesn't close when I'm using another app.

koreancanuck said:
Advantage: Allows more multitasking due to more memory use from the sd card.
Disadvantage: Shortens the sd card life.
If you plan to use swap or A2SD, I recommend getting a class 6 sd card. Some people are opposed to swap, some people are all up for it. It's just up to your preference. For me, swap is just nice that an app doesn't close when I'm using another app.
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A good answer but slightly incomplete. Most sdcards have wear leveling so having swap on your card will do very minimal damage.
brk said:
Hi, I've searched the forum but found no answer. Searched google and found contradictory answers.
Should I use a swap file in SD card?
What are the advantages and disadvantages?
Thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you want to have a swap file (swap.swp) this could possibly corrupt your fat partition. This is based on my own personal experience of course. I recommend use a swap partition honestly.
Just imagine mounting your sdcard to your computer to transfer files while your phone is still attempting to write to /sdcard/swap.swp. This can theoritically cause problems. And you don't want problems on your sdcard. A seperate partition is the safest way to go. But again... just my opinion.
Note that if you are using a rom based on Cyanogen's kernel (such as 5.0.7 or 5.0.8) it is NOT recommended to use swap at all. It will slow down your phone causing more problems than what it's worth. ('Swap grave' is how he put it.)

Binary100100 said:
If you want to have a swap file (swap.swp) this could possibly corrupt your fat partition.
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How does that happen?

endolith said:
How does that happen?
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If your system is writing to the .swp while you mount/unmount the sdcard it can corrupt the card. It's better to use the partition.
In addition if your system is setup to use the swap.swp on your fat32 partition and you mount it to your computer, what do you suppose would happen to your system since it can no longer have access to the .swp file?
Again... not a good idea.

I don't see how unmounting the swap partition is any different from unmounting the partition with a swap file on it.

Just say no!
endolith said:
I don't see how unmounting the swap partition is any different from unmounting the partition with a swap file on it.
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Right, but other than when you shut down your phone, when does your swap partition get [un]mounted?

AdrianK said:
Right, but other than when you shut down your phone, when does your swap partition get [un]mounted?
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When you plug it into a computer, isn't the whole SD card mounted?

endolith said:
When you plug it into a computer, isn't the whole SD card mounted?
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Your computer's OS can only mount the filesystems it supports, for example OOTB Windows only supports FAT and NTFS, so it can't do anything with ext. Anyway, linux-swap is non-persistant, you can't mount it to view the contents, my understanding is that should you mount it on linux, the swap partition will be ignored.

AdrianK said:
Your computer's OS can only mount the filesystems it supports, for example OOTB Windows only supports FAT and NTFS, so it can't do anything with ext.
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But the point is that they're all unmounted before the SD card can be shared with the computer as a mass storage device, so I don't see there being any difference between a swap partition and a swap file.
Besides, Swapper has a default "safe" option that unmounts swap before sharing SD with the computer and remounts it after disconnecting.

endolith said:
But the point is that they're all unmounted before the SD card can be shared with the computer as a mass storage device, so I don't see there being any difference between a swap partition and a swap file.
Besides, Swapper has a default "safe" option that unmounts swap before sharing SD with the computer and remounts it after disconnecting.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I wasn't aware that Swapper has such a feature but that doesn't change the fact that if your running say ~200mb of RAM with ~64mb of swap and with all the multitasking that you're doing you're using up most of it... so say you have only ~10mb free. Then all of a sudden you pull out your sdcard. What do you think happen will happen? Your phone was reading and writing to that card! Do you think that's healthy? If Swapper unmounts it before it shares the sdcard with the computer then it may be better for the sdcard but I don't see how that can have a positive impact on the device. However if you have swap on a seperate partition the only way to run into this problem would be to remove the card from the device. Even if you mount the sdcard to the computer the phone still has access to the swap partition just like it still has access to the ext partition (if it has one).
I don't know about you but I have a 16gb class 6 card and it's a pain in the butt to restore my data to the fat partition so I would rather not have anything read/write to it unless necessary and to have something constantly reading and writing to it is a really bad idea in my case... but maybe you have a ~2gb and reloading the data may not be annoying to you.
Anyway... stick with what works. I've tried them all and based on my own experience I suggest the separate partition if you are going to use swap. But hey... what do I know?
By the way... do NOT use swap on CM5 or CM6. It may help at first but you'll be enroute to digging "a swap grave" (quoted by Cyanogen himself).

Your phone will ONLY share FAT when mounted to PC
Ext and Swap are still running on the phone(app2sd how do you think apps keep working after mounting?)
Same deal with Swap...
I personally do not use Swap although i do have a 128mb Swap Partition.

Binary100100 said:
I wasn't aware that Swapper has such a feature but that doesn't change the fact that if your running say ~200mb of RAM with ~64mb of swap and with all the multitasking that you're doing you're using up most of it... so say you have only ~10mb free. Then all of a sudden you pull out your sdcard. What do you think happen will happen?
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Android routinely kills processes as part of its "task management", and the apps are expected to save their state using "Bundles" so that when you restart them, they restart in the same state they were last in. Is unplugging the swap more harsh than killing the app?
Once Android determines that it needs to remove a process, it does this brutally, simply force-killing it. The kernel can then immediately reclaim all resources needed by the process, without relying on that application being well written and responsive to a polite request to exit. Allowing the kernel to immediately reclaim application resources makes it a lot easier to avoid serious out of memory situations.
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Even if you mount the sdcard to the computer the phone still has access to the swap partition just like it still has access to the ext partition (if it has one).
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Hmmm. When you mount the SD card, the entire SD card is available on the computer, including the FAT, EXT, and swap partitions, but the phone can't access the FAT partition?
I can see the contents of the swap partition from the computer with "sudo cat /dev/sdb3", but the phone can still access it? If I run "free" on the phone, it still shows swap, and the used size still changes, so I guess the phone is still using it, but the computer can see it at the same time, too.
In that case, I understand why it would make more sense to use swap partition than swap file.
I don't know about you but I have a 16gb class 6 card and it's a pain in the butt to restore my data to the fat partition so I would rather not have anything read/write to it unless necessary and to have something constantly reading and writing to it is a really bad idea in my case... but maybe you have a ~2gb and reloading the data may not be annoying to you.
Click to expand...
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I have an 8 GB Class 6 and I don't understand what you're talking about. What do you mean "restore your data to the fat partition"? Restore it from what? What's the point of having an SD card if you don't want anything reading from it?
Anyway... stick with what works.
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By the way... do NOT use swap on CM5 or CM6. It may help at first but you'll be enroute to digging "a swap grave" (quoted by Cyanogen himself).
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What does that mean? Where did he say that? In what context?
I'm using swapper with CM5, and it's like buying a new phone. It greatly speeds up the phone's responsiveness.

I dunno why you can see all three partitions. When I've got my swap and extra partitions setup and mount my SD to my computer, the only partition that shows up is the FAT one, using Windows that is.
As for using swap, a quick Google search will show you a number of threads stating that the only time you see a real benefit from it is on the G1 an older mytouchs with the lower RAM space. Actually most say that using compcache is the better way to go if you've got the extra RAM space.
Sent from my HTC Magic using XDA App

endolith said:
What does that mean? Where did he say that? In what context?
I'm using swapper with CM5, and it's like buying a new phone. It greatly speeds up the phone's responsiveness.
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I guess nobody listens to the people that know what they are talking about. Then they always complain when it doesn't work properly. #Ironic
http://twitter.com/cyanogen/status/13986716217
http://twitter.com/cyanogen/status/13624854797
http://twitter.com/cyanogen/status/13980541397
http://twitter.com/cyanogen/status/13980541397
http://twitter.com/cyanogen/status/13979643918
Enough for you?
And I'm aware that 2.2 automatically kills idle apps, which is all the more reason that you do not need swap.
And your phone cannot access the /sdcard or /mnt/sdcard partition while it is connected to your computer as removable storage. Try it.
Try downloading something to your sdcard while it's connected as removable storage. You can't. Your phone does not have access to the sdcard. In fact... while it's mounted to your computer go to settings SD card & phone storage settings and tell me what it says under Total space and Available space.
Do NOT use a large .swp file because your phone is constantly writing to the sdcard! All it takes is a single instance of removing it without unmounting it and you will have corrupted the entire contents of the fat partition. That is what I mean by restoring the data on the sdcard. I use an ADATA 16gb class 6 sdcard and each time that I tried with the .swp file I ended up losing my data because of random kernel crashes, dead battery, unsafe sdcard mounting etc.
But if you are really convinced of otherwise then go on ahead but I'll tell you right now, I will refuse to help anyone that never listened to my advice the first time. If I give a warning and if someone doesn't listen then it's all on them. I will personally refuse to help them and I wouldn't blame anyone for doing the same. Cyanogen warned users not to use swap. So those that have issues shouldn't complain to him or anyone else because it's their own fault.
All quotes from Cyanogen on twitter. You should follow him and learn something.
@w3stbr00k I don't know.. none of my roms have swap support built in. You would have had to do it yourself.
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@misscocogold t3 is otw in an hour or so. Make sure you aren't using swap or task killers too.
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@singharvinder the new code actually uses swap more aggressively as a side effect
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@singharvinder are you using swap? Don't.
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DonJuan692006 said:
I dunno why you can see all three partitions. When I've got my swap and extra partitions setup and mount my SD to my computer, the only partition that shows up is the FAT one.
As for using swap, a quick Google search will show you a number of threads stating that the only time you see a real benefit from it is on the G1 an older mytouchs with the lower RAM space. Actually most say that using compcache is the better way to go if you've got the extra RAM space.
Sent from my HTC Magic using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can actually access the swap partition from a Linux based OS such as Ubuntu/Live CD.
When you mount the sdcard you also have access to the ext2,3,4 partition if it's available.

See what I get for being Windows exclusive? Edited my first post to be more precise with my wording.

DonJuan692006 said:
I dunno why you can see all three partitions. When I've got my swap and extra partitions setup and mount my SD to my computer, the only partition that shows up is the FAT one.
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Click to collapse
In Linux, both the SD and EXT partitions are mounted, but I can see and access all three. I can see all three partitions in Windows 7 Disk Management, too, but of course Windows can only mount the FAT partition.
a number of threads stating that the only time you see a real benefit from it is on the G1
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I've got a G1.
Binary100100 said:
I guess nobody listens to the people that know what they are talking about. Then they always complain when it doesn't work properly. #Ironic
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I'm looking for truth, not rumor. I'm not going to blindly accept statements made without explanation.
Enough for you?
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Nope. I want to understand why it's a bad idea. Twitter posts aren't exactly comprehensive.
http://twitter.com/cyanogen/status/13986716217
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This is not a recommendation against swap. Someone was talking about disabling swap, and he said it's not his problem because CM doesn't come with swap enabled.
http://twitter.com/cyanogen/status/13624854797
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I read this as "If you're having problems with apps closing, disable swap and task managers. Maybe you have those configured wrong." That doesn't mean swap is inherently harmful.
http://twitter.com/cyanogen/status/13980541397
http://twitter.com/cyanogen/status/13979643918
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This thread is about speed and performance, not harm.
And I'm aware that 2.2 automatically kills idle apps, which is all the more reason that you do not need swap.
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Yes, this is the standard response in threads like this. "Android automatically manages tasks and memory, so you shouldn't try to second-guess it". But, empirically, swap makes the phone run better and faster.
If you switch to another app from the browser, for instance, the browser almost always gets killed, and then it has to reload the entire page from the Internet when you switch back to it. This takes wayyyy longer than reloading the state from swap, and causes problems when the web page is dynamic.
Many apps take much longer to start up than they should, or don't actually return to the same state when they're restarted, and swapping them out works better. I'm guessing the people who are happy with the stock system use their phones differently.
And your phone cannot access the /sdcard or /mnt/sdcard partition while it is connected to your computer as removable storage.
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Yes, I already agreed with that. Swap file is a bad idea since it's inaccessible when you mount on the computer, but swap partition still is. Agreed.

endolith said:
In Linux, both the SD and EXT partitions are mounted, but I can see and access all three. I can see all three partitions in Windows 7 Disk Management, too, but of course Windows can only mount the FAT partition.
I've got a G1.
I'm looking for truth, not rumor. I'm not going to blindly accept statements made without explanation.
Nope. I want to understand why it's a bad idea. Twitter posts aren't exactly comprehensive.
This is not a recommendation against swap. Someone was talking about disabling swap, and he said it's not his problem because CM doesn't come with swap enabled.
I read this as "If you're having problems with apps closing, disable swap and task managers. Maybe you have those configured wrong." That doesn't mean swap is inherently harmful.
This thread is about speed and performance, not harm.
Yes, this is the standard response in threads like this. "Android automatically manages tasks and memory, so you shouldn't try to second-guess it". But, empirically, swap makes the phone run better and faster.
If you switch to another app from the browser, for instance, the browser almost always gets killed, and then it has to reload the entire page from the Internet when you switch back to it. This takes wayyyy longer than reloading the state from swap, and causes problems when the web page is dynamic.
Many apps take much longer to start up than they should, or don't actually return to the same state when they're restarted, and swapping them out works better. I'm guessing the people who are happy with the stock system use their phones differently.
Yes, I already agreed with that. Swap file is a bad idea since it's inaccessible when you mount on the computer, but swap partition still is. Agreed.
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Well it sounds like you have answered the threads questions then. An expert such as yourself should have come along a while ago and stated this for the community. Now that you have discredited Cyanogen and all the other Senior Members and developers maybe I'll just direct all of my private messages regarding swap, compcache and userinit.sh scripts to you. Enjoy it!

new app2sd on froyo seem buged...

Sorry for the loing post, bare with me
I have installed FRF50 when it came out, after a few day when doing an update of a few app in the market I had one stuck at installation, even after reboot when I tried to update it again it did the same, after a few cleanup of my download folder and retry all the app that where encrypted in the app2sd folder (not sure of the exact folder name) where not properly decrypted by the OS, at the time I taught nothing of it and reinstalled everything (froyo image + reconfig) to do a fresh start with froyo, I also reformatted my SD card to be on the safe side... and had no issue since then...
Then came FRF72, did the exact same problem yesterday and I was able to restart the SD (if I can say so) after a few reboot.
Today same issue is back, but no go so far, all app that belong to flash are there with a generic icon, they appear on the list of app in the SD section but without their icon, it really look like if the OS is not able to decrypt them (If I understand correctly that was the stupid way google decided to implement some kind of DRM on the flash memory)
I am seriously thinkiing about going back to CM and the old way of EXT4 app2sd, it was working ok...

I've had this occur after upgrading to FRF72, it's probably because the OS didn't manage to detect the apps correctly. To solve it, I just plugged in my USB cable, mounted the SD card and then unmounting it after it showed up correctly as a removable drive on my laptop. After waiting a while for the OS to scan the card (check logcat to verify that apps are indeed being scanned one by one), my apps were back.

Another test...
Rebooted the phone without the SD, then shutdown and reboot with the SD, no change but...
If I connect the USB cable, the computer see the new drive right away (it use to take a few second after enabling the USB sharing) but is is not usable and I see no notification of the USB, that's a really weird bug...
if anybody have some idea, I know from my first encounter with this issue that changing the SD card will not fix this either...

@ Zanglang
Thanks for the sugestion, but the PC doesn't see the card, my terminal was on the flash mem and I can not install new app from market
trying a nandroid from the Recovery now... BAD DROID...

I had a problem on Frf50 with app icons turning generic and disappearing from 3d app rolodex. They were still accessible from the generic icons.
Now on Frf72 and issue seems to have subsided. Everything is where it should be. This time around i only added apps to sd they were allowable to move, i didnt force anything. When i first talked about it a while back i heard it was a bug as well as learned that certain things shouldnt go on the SD altogether. Now that i got that straightened out im good and feel like i learned something. lol

crap, no recovery

SBERG117 said:
I had a problem on Frf50 with app icons turning generic and disappearing from 3d app rolodex. They were still accessible from the generic icons.
Now on Frf72 and issue seems to have subsided. Everything is where it should be. This time around i only added apps to sd they were allowable to move, i didnt force anything. When i first talked about it a while back i heard it was a bug as well as learned that certain things shouldnt go on the SD altogether. Now that i got that straightened out im good and feel like i learned something. lol
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Yeah, the funny part is that I did not move rom manager and I did not move anything like widget etc, I am frustrated by Google stupid way of handling memory extension tho... as for not forcing any app i am fine with the idea however too many app are not updated and it piss me off to go thru all app to move them by hand...
What's the point of encrypting the app moved to SD anyway... I can't believe how stupid this is, I hope Cyanogen will find a way to disable this altogether...

P00r said:
Yeah, the funny part is that I did not move rom manager and I did not move anything like widget etc, I am frustrated by Google stupid way of handling memory extension tho... as for not forcing any app i am fine with the idea however too many app are not updated and it piss me off to go thru all app to move them by hand...
What's the point of encrypting the app moved to SD anyway... I can't believe how stupid this is, I hope Cyanogen will find a way to disable this altogether...
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Well now some of the icons have disappeared again. LOL.
These were all allowable by FRF72. Only one that hasnt changed yet is titanium backup. I tried, thought it was gonna hold.

I managed to do a recovery, I swapped the SD with another one and moved everything from the protected dir of the old card to the new one and all the icon came back.
When checking in the app manager, I noticed a few file marked as flash, I deleted a few and it seem ok but the one in the SD section are still not all there, and some display calculating as in the properties field forever...
So far
Froyo = 7/10 (3 total crash so far all related to the new memory management) since I used the PM setInstallLocation 2 I am not putting 0...
Cyanogen = 9/10
I am really curious to see what he will do with flash memory management!
Now running FRF83 with the first SD untouched, I recovered my nandroid then directly flashed to FRF83 from Paul, all app are there... I am also reverting to setIntallLocation 0 to see if there's improvement...

Having similar issues right now on the latest update with setinstalllocation 2. I guess I have to f around with it to get this to work again. What a pain.
Sent from my Nexus One using XDA App

adb setinstalllocation 2 doesn't seem to do much but make it seem like many apps are actually being installed on the sd card when they are in fact not.
I decided to investigate when I noticed my phone storage at 32mb of internal storage free. Installed flash player. I went to manage applications, installed on sd tab had all 7.7 megs on the sd card. I went to uninstall, the application freed up internal phone storage, all 7.7 megs on uninstall.
I don't believe this method actually does anything useful unless its an app that already allows store to sd.. which is few and far between. Furthermore you don't know what's really an app that supports that now and what isn't because most of the apps now show up in the "on sd" tab of managed applications.
I could be wrong, plan on testing some more soon.. busy for the rest of the day. Will report back

blisk said:
adb setinstalllocation 2 doesn't seem to do much but make it seem like many apps are actually being installed on the sd card when they are in fact not.
I decided to investigate when I noticed my phone storage at 32mb of internal storage free. Installed flash player. I went to manage applications, installed on sd tab had all 7.7 megs on the sd card. I went to uninstall, the application freed up internal phone storage, all 7.7 megs on uninstall.
I don't believe this method actually does anything useful unless its an app that already allows store to sd.. which is few and far between. Furthermore you don't know what's really an app that supports that now and what isn't because most of the apps now show up in the "on sd" tab of managed applications.
I could be wrong, plan on testing some more soon.. busy for the rest of the day. Will report back
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The files are encrypted and placed in .android_secure in the root of the SD card (when I crashed that dir had 350MB size...)
so they are there, but I agree that phone memory still didn't get freed as much as it should as well, I suspect it's the way the OS had to place thumbstone so that they appear in the app manager
Also I noticed that they seem to have some kind of naming convention {com.dooblou.WiFiFileExplorerPRO-2} vs {cn.mobgo.filego-1} where some have -2 and other are -1
either way I reformatted and started again from scratch (well partially, titanium backup is very usefull) this time without forcing usage of the SD card I already feel the pain of having to go thru each and every app to toggle the move to sd and this is when it simply doesn't support the feature yet...
I really think that this app 2 sd implementation sucks big time, oh did I mention that the way google implemented it's memory expansion sucks... Also the way they implemented encryption mean that you could end up with a backup from a broken phone not working on a new phone which is quite something, almost sound like an Apple Feature...
They could have to the very least added a tab in the app manager so that we can easily manage the said so option... and made an external app that could decrypt the app moved to flash for backup purpose

P00r said:
I really think that this app 2 sd implementation sucks big time, oh did I mention that the way google implemented it's memory expansion sucks... Also the way they implemented encryption mean that you could end up with a backup from a broken phone not working on a new phone which is quite something, almost sound like an Apple Feature...
They could have to the very least added a tab in the app manager so that we can easily manage the said so option... and made an external app that could decrypt the app moved to flash for backup purpose
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Click to collapse
Yeah it's a pretty terrible implementation. I think eventually it'll be some sort of transparent thing that the user will never see if the app developer enables it but for the time being it blows big time.

Maybe this is why Froyo hasn't yet released.... Wider audience and feedback on A2SD.
I suspect it'll either get fixed or yanked for 2.2.

I had to reinstall all the apps I moved to the SD card.

Had the same problem with FRF76..all of a sudden I couldn't install new apps from the market...soooo, what I did was:
- downgrade to CM5.0.8
- save all of my apps to apps2sd
- deleted app secure folder
- upgrade to rodrigurez r19 rom with older style apps2sd.
- now, I have all my apps n new ones my sd card n yeap..even widgets are working..

khaytsus said:
Maybe this is why Froyo hasn't yet released.... Wider audience and feedback on A2SD.
I suspect it'll either get fixed or yanked for 2.2.
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I hope so, A guy has made a great program to move the app to SD, however on my phone I can move like 10% of all I have installed, I just had to delete co-pilot to be able to install swype
What's weird is that their protected folder system even compress the app, but as far as I am concerned I do not need more space on my SD since almost nothing can be moved there anyway... and even if, I could update my SD as needed...

A2SD is pointless

So Froyo is here and my phone is full... constant messages in the notificication bar saying sms cannot be received because the phone is full etc...
Wasnt Apps to SD meant to sort this, how can it when not even Google uses this feature, only one of my apps (skymap) uses it...
What about maps,earth etc... all the massive files
What a joke

Froyo release isn't even finished (not even really started) and you are complaining now? Just WAIT.

marmankites said:
So Froyo is here and my phone is full... constant messages in the notificication bar saying sms cannot be received because the phone is full etc...
Wasnt Apps to SD meant to sort this, how can it when not even Google uses this feature, only one of my apps (skymap) uses it...
What about maps,earth etc... all the massive files
What a joke
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Click to collapse
You do know you have to move those files manually right? Goto settings->Applications->Manage Applications->[App name here] then click move to SD Card. This only works with applications that the developer of the app flaged to be able to move to SD card.

I agree, it does suck. Even with the command that allows you to move all apps2sd, it is still horrible in my opinion. This is why I am back to using the old method of apps2sd, much more easier -- and it doesn't take up space on my main SD card partition.

Of course I know you do it manually, I went through all my apps hoping I could find some to move to get a txt message come through, pulling my hair out!
What is this, Apple now?

You're all idiots. Froyo JUST got released. Now devs actually have a reason to implement A2SD in their apps. That's right, the Froyo method requires each app to be made compatible first. And yeah you have to do it manually. So freaking educate yourselves before you start *****ing.

Yes and the froyo method only moves a portion of the app leaving a large portion on your phone. Also if you have to format your sd card then when you restore your back up to your sd card from your computer you still have to reinstall all of your apps because the implementation has some sort of encryption and screws you over. So your right we are all idiots because the google implemented a ****ty half ass version of apps 2 sd!

FaJu said:
You're all idiots. Froyo JUST got released. Now devs actually have a reason to implement A2SD in their apps. That's right, the Froyo method requires each app to be made compatible first. And yeah you have to do it manually. So freaking educate yourselves before you start *****ing.
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I am not sure who need education,
I do feel their implementation is flawed as well. The fact is that it's easy to see that the ext4 partition method is better and simpler.

Glad others have found it to be a pittyfull attempt
Its on par with Apples "multitasking"

I think it is good enough for a normal user. All other use app2sd anyway.

I also use the 'old' method.
I have an EXT3 partitin and it's much smoother and less internal memory is used.
I hate the fact that all apps that are on the SD the FROYO way don't work if you mount your SDCARD.

Im having a hard time of finding the benefits of Google version over the APPS2SD version.
Not knocking Googles version since its brand spanking new...but outside of the need to partition it seems better than Google version.

xManMythLegend said:
Im having a hard time of finding the benefits of Google version over the APPS2SD version.
Not knocking Googles version since its brand spanking new...but outside of the need to partition it seems better than Google version.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah after seeing how it works on my nexus I plan on rooting my phone finally so I don't have to be annoyed by it in the future.

So if you install whole apps on the sd card... what happens to those with widgets you are currently using and you mount the sd card? It will totally screw the widgets right?
Edit: Nvm, that's why there's an ext3 partition right?

Grrr...stupid question.
Can I create an EXT partition at this point without wiping my SD card or losing data ?

Well I agree it is not as good as having an ext partition for apps2sd but I have had zero issues with the new version. I installed market manager and choose to install apps to the sd card. Manually move them over and reboot. Once booted I force close adw.launcher with a task manager and all apps show and work just fine. I have over 100 apps on my phone and almost all of them are on sd with the exception of widgets and a couple others for one reason or another. No glitches or problems whatsoever. not sure what you guys are doing wrong.

r0adki111 said:
Well I agree it is not as good as having an ext partition for apps2sd but I have had zero issues with the new version. I installed market manager and choose to install apps to the sd card. Manually move them over and reboot. Once booted I force close adw.launcher with a task manager and all apps show and work just fine. I have over 100 apps on my phone and almost all of them are on sd with the exception of widgets and a couple others for one reason or another. No glitches or problems whatsoever. not sure what you guys are doing wrong.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Can you explain the bolded ?
Theres so few apps enabled for SD and Im already out of space. There was a way to force all apps to sd googles way but it seemed to cause problems.
BTW the skin switched after I typed this freaked me the hell out...thought I accidently posted this on BangBros forum or something.

xManMythLegend said:
Can you explain the bolded ?
Theres so few apps enabled for SD and Im already out of space. There was a way to force all apps to sd googles way but it seemed to cause problems.
BTW the skin switched after I typed this freaked me the hell out...thought I accidently posted this on BangBros forum or something.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
market manager gives you the option to pick where you want to install your apps. if you tell them to go to sd and then go into settings, applications, manage applications and click on an app you can click "move to sd" and the app will go there. Essentially it is the google method. I haven't used frf83 yet so I dunno if it's different.
forum skin change just freaked me out too haha!

r0adki111 said:
market manager gives you the option to pick where you want to install your apps. if you tell them to go to sd and then go into settings, applications, manage applications and click on an app you can click "move to sd" and the app will go there. Essentially it is the google method. I haven't used frf83 yet so I dunno if it's different.
forum skin change just freaked me out too haha!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Is this a seperate app ?
If so I cant find a link here or marketplace.

xManMythLegend said:
Is this a seperate app ?
If so I cant find a link here or marketplace.
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Click to collapse
I'm sorry, I believe it's called "MarketAccess". I sent my n1 in for dust and don't have it to look at right now. my mistake.

Low phone storage

So suddenly I got the new market and with it like thousand of updates.
Problem is now I'm constantly running on low phone space.
All apps left that can not be moved to the SD-Card are a must have.
So deleting them is not an option
Except the ones that I can not uninstall (like Google Books) guess because they came preinstalled.
I can't even install some new apps as they require more space then I obviously have.
What are my options?

http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=670087

Move apps to SD (non-root and no apps required on phone)
I just did this yesterday with my Nexus One...
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1001202

Read the FAQ, question 9.

I can not do this as I run a stock rom I think.

SocalVisor said:
I just did this yesterday with my Nexus One...
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1001202
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
DarsVaeda said:
I can not do this as I run a stock rom I think.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Did you read?
From what I can tell, you do not need root to do this, just a working ADB connection. No additional on-phone software is required.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

Given your parameters, only solution is to partition your SD card, create an ext-flavored filesystem on one of the partitions, and run one of the available software solutions (referenced in the links above) to permit saving of ALL apps and app data (and dalvik cache) on the SD card.
If you do that, cheers to you, but do some critical thinking and research before buying into the Class 10 hype. Most benchmarks have shown that the bottleneck in the N1 SD read/write speed is not the speed of the card, but rather the combination of software and hardware that handles SD card input and output. In fact, on some benchmarks, Class 4 cards perform as well as Class 6 and Class 10, and in some, Class 10 cards underperform Class 4 (which may have to do with the different standards applicable to Class 10 versus 2,4, and 6...the older cards had to meet a certain minimum read/write speed on a fragmented card for a single large file transfer; for Class 10 the specification is sequential writes on a defragmented SD card -- if you ask me both specifications are insufficient...how about a spec that tests sequential operations on a fragmented card?).
Or, alternately, consider removing some apps. Unless you are a developer, I can't see that you "need" to have more apps than the admittedly meager flash allocation can handle. You may want them, and want them very badly, but I've always found that a self-critical distinction between needs and wants makes me happiest in the long run, because it's easy to ignore wants. If this doesn't work for you, look above. Whatever floats your submarine, man.

I never had any problems with the sd-card performance.
Doesn't matter anyway as my problem is that there are 9gigs of free space on the card but I fear I will soon run into the problem of being unable to install any more apps (even to the card) as the phone space is too low.
This actually happens already now when updating apps.
Unfortunatly I did not manage to get the adb thing working yet so I can not test SocialVisors solution.

I'm unrooted as well, and have this problem as well. I'm hoping the nexus prime hits soon enough (and on tmo).
Otherwise, I'll look into rooting (which I'd rather do, if I'm going to modify, I'll go all in), I think one of the benefits is being able to uninstall unwanted stock apps and keep them off. So like the amazon mp3 store, for instance.

Okay so I now managed to get ADB working.
I could move some heavy apps like swype. I could not move "Astrid Tasks" as then the widget does not work anymore. Hopefully that is the only app.
I am now back at 30MB free space.
But still there are some hughe apps, like Google Maps(11MB), that can not be moved at all.
And yes, Google Maps is a must have!

Did you read the FAQ?
Did you read rallyemax's answer, and put attention to the first paragraph?
Are you looking for a solution, or do you just want to complain?

tkirton said:
How to install:
NOTE: ROMS THAT ARE ORM (ORIGINAL ROM FROM MANUFACTURER...ALSO KNOWN AS STOCK ROMS) WILL NOT RUN ANY VERSION OF APPS2SD EXCEPT FROYO.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I alread said I run a stock rom (not froyo).
The only one who is complaining is you.
You can just ignore this thread if you don't like it.
But thanks to everyone so far.

In that case, it's simple: you can't do a thing.
Your 2 options are:
1) Run a custom kernel over your stock ROM, or a custom ROM, and install A2SD support. Need to root / unlock the bootloader / hack the bootloader, of course.
2) Do nothing and don't look for solutions that don't exist, just accept the fact that you're stuck with less internal storage that you wanted.
No third option.

Been trying to do this for two years, still need to use sd card as internal memory

I ran out of storage for new apps a long time ago. My device is kind of useless for new things because there is no internal memory for INSTALLING APPS, even after removing 75% of my apps which includes system apps. There is just no more space. It still has 2gb of internal memory left BUT THAT CANNOT BE USED FOR INSTALLING APPS, stupidly. There are 8GB of total internal storage space.
I have plenty of storage for data. Just not for apps. I have a 32GB SD card as well.
App2SD apps, I maximized all possible data to be moved.
Apps with data larger than 20MB I just deleted the whole apps.
Still no more space.
Additionally, it means I CANNOT use this tablet for things like games, or for storing map data from gopilot live as a backup in case my phone dies. Which is VERY limiting. Especially because I used to like to play games on it but I had to remove all the games to make way for utilities.
Thus I DESPERATELY NEED to be able to install UNLIMITED NUMBER OF APPS using the SD card for internal storage.
I tried the vold.fstab method HERE, but it did not work.
PLEASE HELP!!! THANK YOU!!!
p.s. I WOULD BUY A NEW TABLET WITH MORE MEMORY BUT NO 7.0 INCH TABLET EXISTS THAT IS BETTER THAN THE TAB 4 BECAUSE THEY ARE ALL MAKING HUGE 8.0 and 8.4 INCH TABLETS THAT ARE TOO BIG SO I AM STUCK WITH THE TAB 4.

zxzxzxzxzxzxzxzxzx said:
I ran out of storage for new apps a long time ago. My device is kind of useless for new things because there is no internal memory for INSTALLING APPS, even after removing 75% of my apps which includes system apps. There is just no more space. It still has 2gb of internal memory left BUT THAT CANNOT BE USED FOR INSTALLING APPS, stupidly. There are 8GB of total internal storage space.
I have plenty of storage for data. Just not for apps. I have a 32GB SD card as well.
App2SD apps, I maximized all possible data to be moved.
Apps with data larger than 20MB I just deleted the whole apps.
Still no more space.
Additionally, it means I CANNOT use this tablet for things like games, or for storing map data from gopilot live as a backup in case my phone dies. Which is VERY limiting. Especially because I used to like to play games on it but I had to remove all the games to make way for utilities.
Thus I DESPERATELY NEED to be able to install UNLIMITED NUMBER OF APPS using the SD card for internal storage.
I tried the vold.fstab method HERE, but it did not work.
PLEASE HELP!!! THANK YOU!!!
p.s. I WOULD BUY A NEW TABLET WITH MORE MEMORY BUT NO 7.0 INCH TABLET EXISTS THAT IS BETTER THAN THE TAB 4 BECAUSE THEY ARE ALL MAKING HUGE 8.0 and 8.4 INCH TABLETS THAT ARE TOO BIG SO I AM STUCK WITH THE TAB 4.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i'd say you just need test different apps all over and over akd different methods from XDA, i have on my phone sdcard as internal memory but same method wont work on tab 4..... you should use folder mount to move appdata to sdcard and use it from there, it helps if you have big app data on internal sd card.

thelous said:
i'd say you just need test different apps all over and over akd different methods from XDA, i have on my phone sdcard as internal memory but same method wont work on tab 4..... you should use folder mount to move appdata to sdcard and use it from there, it helps if you have big app data on internal sd card.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No I tried that already. It does Not work because of the error "this has been limited due to kitkat so you're not authorized" or something to that extent. It's not an error, it is a limitation of the kitkat (and all subsequent) operating systems. Google did that on purpose to try to force people to have to upgrade their phone.

zxzxzxzxzxzxzxzxzx said:
No I tried that already. It does Not work because of the error "this has been limited due to kitkat so you're not authorized" or something to that extent. It's not an error, it is a limitation of the kitkat (and all subsequent) operating systems. Google did that on purpose to try to force people to have to upgrade their phone.
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Click to collapse
well, you could install cyanogenmod to fix issue.....

bump

zxzxzxzxzxzxzxzxzx said:
Extreme measures is NOT a solution. That's like saying, "I'm having an issue with my computer..." and someone saying, "well, you could always get a new computer." NO. Not a solution.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Cyanogenmod isn't an extreme solution, it runs better than touchwiz IMO and it takes up significantly less memory, which is a fact. It's more like saying, "I don't like Windows," and the reply being, "You should try out Ubuntu," especially since both cyanogenmod, like Ubuntu, is completely free

bump

zxzxzxzxzxzxzxzxzx said:
Reinstalling my entire OS is not a solution. Get over it. I am not reinstalling a new OS.
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Click to collapse
With a quote like that you are on the wrong website my friend. Sorry for trying to help. And it is a valid solution since it would've solved the problem

Bump
Waiting for a real solution to the actual problem.

uh if youre not ready to install different rom i guess theres no solution

I'm having the exact same dilemma. In my case, not going to CM (or another rom/firmware/kernel..) is due to the fact that my children use the tablets, so the KidsMode needs to work. I've looked at that one from Zoodles, and its rubbish compared to the Samsung one available on their Galaxy devices. My original post never had any reply other than my own update.
By the way: I'm still searching for a solution to this... If only Samsung would/could release Marshmallow on this tablet, the Adoptable Storage option could be used...

Now, if you can just hold your breath...

lol I know right...?
Full disclosure: I've given up hope of finding a solution that will work with (essentially) stock 4.4.2, so now I'm looking into how to get the TouchWiz framework to run on a rom/kernel that DOES support support an external/internal swap.
Of course, that does nothing to help the OP, but IMO the best solution has already been presented to him: Install a custom ROM that supports what he needs. It's still the best solution since there don't seem to be any TouchWiz-dependent apps he needs.

Years later still no solution

zxzxzxzxzxzxzxzxzx said:
Years later still no solution
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you are willing to root your device you can use Apps2sd to actually move(link) whole app into sd card.
You'll need to repartition your sd card to do it, but there are good guides to do it.
EDIT:
Oh it's renamed app2sd but here is the link https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=in.co.pricealert.apps2sd&hl=fi for it
you can also try link2sd app

keikari said:
If you are willing to root your device you can use Apps2sd to actually move(link) whole app into sd card.
You'll need to repartition your sd card to do it, but there are good guides to do it.
EDIT:
Oh it's renamed app2sd but here is the link https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=in.co.pricealert.apps2sd&hl=fi for it
you can also try link2sd app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's very limited and actually doesn't do anything more than the native android system does already, ever since about 2013 or so

zxzxzxzxzxzxzxzxzx said:
That's very limited and actually doesn't do anything more than the native android system does already, ever since about 2013 or so
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't know about how limited it is, but it's completly different than native android moving apps to sd. Linking is like actually increasing your devices internal memory(not really but somethign like that). Also it's easiest/(propably)best way to get more memory for apps.