Database Users

A cross-country trip, the Froyo Radio and what it might mean to you!

So I just recently took a trip from northern California to Tennessee and had some interesting results with the Froyo radio. For reference I own the ATT-version Nexus One and have data roaming enabled.
When I used the phone before Froyo radio I had many problems with the 3G switching to Edge and back when needed which caused random data dropouts. Even turning the phone off and back wouldn't force the phone to switch connections to Edge when needed which would make me very frustrated in times of need.
On my trip I found something very interesting, not only did 3G and Edge switch almost perfectly, but Edge performed MUCH faster than before. While it isn't as important now in a world of 3G coverage, when I was on the "edge" of civilization I still got surfing speeds that were not far behind that of 3G speeds. My browsing, and most importantly Google Maps usage rarely suffered a performance hit despite where I was or what type of connection was available to my phone.
There was a difference between performance; 3G would act like Comcast and Edge would be a little behind, but in terms of actually surfing the Internet the extra 2-5 seconds it took to load up a desktop webpage didn't make a difference.
Technically the bandwidth speeds were much different. 3G performed from 1 to a max of 2 megabits down and .3-1 megabits up, while Edge showed speeds of 300-500 kbps down and 100-200 up.
One thing I did notice throughout the trip is the Nexus One's signal meter did not report correctly, there were times where it showed no signal and I had super fast connection, and also times when it would show full or near-full bars and there was no connection.
Hope someone finds this info useful!!! I'm very happy with the coverage my Nexus One gets with the Froyo radio now!

I have always found that my nexus holds calls and has fast data showing zero bars. One reason I've always loved the nexus

Just a point of clarification, EDGE has a maximum theoretical bandwidth of 473.6 kbits/s for 8 timeslots.
In real world conditions EDGE should have throughput of 236.8kbit/s with 4 timeslots(which is what most carriers employ).
Dan

Wonder if there's and app/mod to replace the signal bar with the actual signal #s?

Hey Sellitus, what else did you find working/not working on that trip?
I am considering a longer drive (SF to NY) and want to know about battery life, apps that were really handy, and which weren't.

SiNJiN76 said:
Wonder if there's and app/mod to replace the signal bar with the actual signal #s?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
hey that would be nice. just like how cyanogen puts the battery percentage, it would be nice to have the dBm level of signal overtop of the signal meter.

RogerPodacter said:
hey that would be nice. just like how cyanogen puts the battery percentage, it would be nice to have the dBm level of signal overtop of the signal meter.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The dBm and signal bar IMO opinion are rather pointless in regards to data. Having a very poor 3G signal will always be faster than a full GPRS signal.

Also, a signal meter in terms of DB would jump around quite a bit...

sprinkles said:
Hey Sellitus, what else did you find working/not working on that trip?
I am considering a longer drive (SF to NY) and want to know about battery life, apps that were really handy, and which weren't.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well for ATT I hit data roaming quite a few times, and although it worked on edge pretty quickly during those times it would randomly drop when the R was showing randomly. I think what happened a lot on the trip is when I was out in the middle of nowhere bouncing between towers would cause random dropouts, but they were usually no more than a few seconds.
I don't remember which apps specifically though a few also did not like the trip, but most would hang and resume in a few seconds after data was reconnected even if the signal strength showed it was connected the entire time with signal. Sometimes Google Maps hung, though it was rare and I noticed it more because I used it near constantly on the trip.
If I were to give advice to anyone looking at a cross country trip, buy a map or get offline GPS maps to help. We bought a map and it proved valuable at times, though we rarely needed it.

I wonder if the "enable data while roaming" setting had anything to do with that. Maybe an internal bug.

torchedlh said:
Also, a signal meter in terms of DB would jump around quite a bit...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't know how a number jumping around would be any different than a graphical signal meter jumping around. The iPhone has had this hack for a long time where you can replace the signal meter with the dBm reading. Though I've never owned the iPhone, but seen it on friend's iPhone before.
I know I'm often going into the android settings to look at my dBm reading, didn't jump around too much for me to see.

I've been having some reception issue lately with AT&T around my hometown (usually its quite good),so I did some googling, and found plenty of info on radio signal, and how to interpret -dBm, but I'm still baffled by the ASU. I really couldn't find much, just some random post on a random forum that left me with some questions:
In a 3G network your cell phone tries to open three channels to three radios so they can locate you and hand you off properly.
Those three channels make up you ACTIVE SET.
ASU is ACTIVE SET UPDATES or the rate at which your phone is able to update its location to the towers/radios.
This rate is affected by signal strength, load, and probably a lot of other factors that I haven't puzzled out yet.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Can anyone shed some more light on this? Usually at home I have 2 bars of HSDPA, somehwere in the -90s dBm, and anywhere from 4-8 asu.

Possible bug in Fascinate's signal strength

I believe there is a bug in the signal strength indication on the Fascinate, the one that shows the signal strength in -dBm.
You can see the signal strength of the cell signal on the Menu, Settings, About, Status screen. Or you can place a widget on your Home screen. There are several widgets available, I'm using Mobile Signal Widget.
I have a network extender, which basically creates a cell tower right in your home. With my Motorola Droid, I used to get signal strengths down to about -50 something and 60's in indicated signal strength. I can hold both of our Fascinates right next to the network extender's antenna and they will read no better than -86 dBm. So far I've seen signal strengths from -86 dBm to -106 dBm (terrible).
I believe there is a bug in the software (Baseband) on the Fascinate. Previously, I thought the hardware (antenna/radio) wasn't very good, but now it may be software related.
Has anyone seen a signal strength stronger than -86 dBm on the Fascinate?

That's a good point. Mine has never gone below -86dbm either. It fluctuates between -86 at it's best and -106 at it's worst.

Ill keep an eye on this with my phone
Sent from my SCH-I500 using Tapatalk

I have no experience with cell phone radios so take this with the appropriate helping of salt.
Most radios have input protection that attenuates any signals greater than a set maximum level to prevent damage to the radio. I'm guessing the Fascinate reports it's receive signal level post input protection. It appears you just discovered this threshold for the Fascinate. Honestly, -86 dBm is plenty of signal, anything more is just for show
Again, I'm only speculating here.
Martian21

Interesting theory. I have emailed Verizon support as well. Hopefully, I will get a technical response and not a canned response from them.

With mine, it only fluctuates in -5dBm increments lol. I thought it was a litle wierd. I've seen -86, -91, -96, -101, and -106 lol.
As far as what the OP is talking about, my BB Tour (alltel) is the same way. It won't ever display anything lower than a -80.

Anyone else have a consistently high TWS(Time Without Signal) percentage? Mine almost never goes below 50%, and I've seen it up in the 80s. I think my battery life is really suffering from this. You can see yours in Settings > About Phone > Battery Use > Cell Standby. I've tried a few "fixes" that I've found through researching the issue on other android phones in general, but haven't seen any results.

shazbonk said:
Anyone else have a consistently high TWS(Time Without Signal) percentage? Mine almost never goes below 50%, and I've seen it up in the 80s. I think my battery life is really suffering from this. You can see yours in Settings > About Phone > Battery Use > Cell Standby. I've tried a few "fixes" that I've found through researching the issue on other android phones in general, but haven't seen any results.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I was thinking about this the other day. Is it possible "time without signal" is simply a poor translation? The reason I ask this is when taking my phone off the charger overnight, I went directly to this setting to see what it reported. The phone reported having been unplugged for 2 minutes and already showed 5% TWS. I had been looking at the phone the whole time and didn't see it drop at all. What I did see is it going from 3G w/ arrows to 3Gd. So maybe this percentage isn't time without signal but rather time not active (i.e. 3G d).

I agree w/ the 3g d, I did not update to DI01 yet and it said I have 20% TWS throughout the day, but the phone didnt make a no service sound.

On my drive home everday I pass a Verizon owned tower.
I've stopped at a liquor store about 200 yards away from it and they maximum signal my Fascinate would pull down was -86dBm (4 bars as well).
My Cell Standby is usually around 11%.
Battery life of my Fascinate is very good.

xliderider: Any news/word from Verizon on this? What kind of Network Extender do you have? Got a brand/model #? Been thinking of picking something up like this.

So it isn't just my phone. My Fascinate goes from -86 to -106 as well. I had my Droid and Fascinate sitting next to each other, both reporting 4 bars. I went into status, and my Droid's signal strength was -77. The Fascinate was at -86. It's gotta be capped.

You're holding it wrong.
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA App

You are probably right. With 4 full bars I can't get better than -86

I've been having the same problem...I was told by Verizon that it just has a "weaker" antenna. I go throughout the day with about 20% TWS. Never had that with my other Verizon phones.

do you get dropped calls or otherwise poor service?

I am returning my incredible due to dropped calls (while at home) using Verizons network Extender. I have had the incredible since April 29th (I believe that was the first day it was released). I have had the signal boosted twice by Verizon but still can't get close to 40' without dropping. One thing I noticed on the incredible while in the same room with the Extender is it would read let's say a -86dbm before placing a call then when placed and on the Extender network the signal would automatically go to -56dbm (stronger signal than -86dbm) and then back up after my call. What I saw was the Extender wasn't active until you make a call... Having said that, I am hoping the Fascinate will be better than the inc was... I will let you know when the Fascinate gets to me Wed or Thursday.
Sent from my ADR6300 using XDA App

Got the Facinate a day early : )
So far it is defiantly working better than my Incredible on my verizon network extender!
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA App

Mines 0%
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA App

Sounds like it could have the same problem that affected the Vibrant. It NEVER showed higher than -81dBm, and would often reflect no signal (-0dBm is spectacular but it really means no signal within the Android system). Now with the update it reflects up to -51dBm like it should for GSM/WCDMA with Android and doesn't drop to -0dBm anymore. This of course effected the bars, often dropping to no bars or 1. Now after it's been fixed, plenty of bars and proper -dBm readings.

Possible bug in Fascinate's signal strength, affect Epic 4G?

Posted this in the Fascinate forum, but I'd like to know if it is affecting your devices as well:
I believe there is a bug in the signal strength indication on the Fascinate, the one that shows the signal strength in -dBm.
You can see the signal strength of the cell signal on the Menu, Settings, About, Status screen. Or you can place a widget on your Home screen. There are several widgets available, I'm using Mobile Signal Widget.
I have a network extender, which basically creates a cell tower right in your home. With my Motorola Droid, I used to get signal strengths down to about -50 something and 60's in indicated signal strength. I can hold both of our Fascinates right next to the network extender's antenna and they will read no better than -86 dBm. So far I've seen signal strengths from -86 dBm to -106 dBm (terrible).
I believe there is a bug in the software (Baseband) on the Fascinate. Previously, I thought the hardware (antenna/radio) wasn't very good, but now it may be software related.
Has anyone seen a signal strength stronger than -86 dBm on the Fascinate/Epic?

I remember seeing it at -68 dBm on my Epic yesterday.

Hmm, thanks for that. Was that on 3G?

I also feel that this is impacting battery life. My signal is always reading worse than the Evo and TP2 (in the same location) but calls are not dropped.
This leads me to believe that the signal is actually better than the phone thinks. but since the phone thinks the signal is weaker than it is, it boosts the radio power (thus eating more battery.)
If this is not the case, the flip side is much worse and the Epic's antenna is a poor design, requiring higher power.

Every phone that Samsung comes out with that runs Android and the QSC6085 modem processor always has the same general problems.
The Fascinate, Epic 4G, Moment, Intercept, and Acclaim all generally have poor battery life, signal, GPS, and network performance issues, and other related bugs.
I know of other phones like the Droid/X/2 that have the same Qualcomm modem and have no issues whatsoever with network and GPS connectivity.
Is there any way to get source for the Droid phones and fix what's wrong on the Epic?

Thanks for all the replies. Verizon CS wasn't any help, at least the one Guy that responded to my email that I sent them.
LOL. He told me I have to contact the developer of the signal strength app I had on my phone for the problem I was reporting. WTF?
I responded by asking him to send it to higher level technical support personnel.
We'll see how that goes.
In the meantime, I'll probably exchange my Fascinate for a Droid X to get a phone with better reception, GPS function, and network performance.

xliderider said:
Posted this in the Fascinate forum, but I'd like to know if it is affecting your devices as well:
I believe there is a bug in the signal strength indication on the Fascinate, the one that shows the signal strength in -dBm.
You can see the signal strength of the cell signal on the Menu, Settings, About, Status screen. Or you can place a widget on your Home screen. There are several widgets available, I'm using Mobile Signal Widget.
I have a network extender, which basically creates a cell tower right in your home. With my Motorola Droid, I used to get signal strengths down to about -50 something and 60's in indicated signal strength. I can hold both of our Fascinates right next to the network extender's antenna and they will read no better than -86 dBm. So far I've seen signal strengths from -86 dBm to -106 dBm (terrible).
I believe there is a bug in the software (Baseband) on the Fascinate. Previously, I thought the hardware (antenna/radio) wasn't very good, but now it may be software related.
Has anyone seen a signal strength stronger than -86 dBm on the Fascinate/Epic?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have the newest Airrave just installed today its in the other room behind my flatscreen and I get 65-db GPS locks in milli seconds and calls are crystal clear data is extremely fast

[Q] Signal Strength

I am sitting right next to someone with an older Droid 1 and they have 4 bars of signal strength while my Fascinate blinks between 1 and 2 bars. Is this normal?

The signal strength is definitely weaker on the Fascinate that it was on my D1. Not happy about it... Moto has always had the best reception IMO.

Have you done any side by side speed test?
I have the DX and I'm having the 3g->1x problem, and even when I'm on 3g it's garbage compared to a co-workers Eris. I'm thinking about switching to the Fascinate... but idk if it's any better.
I'm kicking around the idea of adding a second line to test it out or something to give it a shot.

matthewsh said:
I am sitting right next to someone with an older Droid 1 and they have 4 bars of signal strength while my Fascinate blinks between 1 and 2 bars. Is this normal?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The comparison is useless unless you're looking at numbers, not bars. Bar scaling can vary.
Sent from my Fascinate using XDA

Not all phones are created equal, and this is an instance. However if you want to look at it from the other point of view, the Fascinate is pumping much much less radiation into the side of your head when you are using it

I'm in the same boat as the OP, my wife has a droid 1. Her phone gets more bars than me, but our speed tests are identical.

You really need to compare actual signal levels, not bars.
Menu -> Settings -> About Phone -> Status.
Signal = Lower number is better (i.e. -78 is better than -95).

So you mean higher number is better...
NKT said:
You really need to compare actual signal levels, not bars.
Menu -> Settings -> About Phone -> Status.
Signal = Lower number is better (i.e. -78 is better than -95).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA App

Well yes. But you'd be surprised how many people are confused by negative numbers
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA App

In my case the DX is definitely the worse off the of the 2. I spent at least an hour testing speeds with the speedtest app and tethered, the Eris beat the DX every single time by a large margin, say 20%. The DX ALWAYS showed more bars but was still much slower.
Really starting to erk me...
Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk
Edit: Did another side by side of the signal strength using the method posted above, DX is down by 3-4 db on average. No voyeur that is a big difference or not, then again in my case it is.

minr necro here
ive just got a fascinate, got the wife a d2
i noticed the sf will go from 91-106 and the d2 stays @ 93
side by side, not moving
can a software update fix this?
love the phone, but when i tether it loses connection because its unstable
the d2 does not, or hasnt yet

I have testest my dx against my girlfriends sf and the SF Always beat it.
I have not once dropped a call and the interwebs never fails , yet my phone is on 1-2 bars and then no bars.
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA App

The DJ05 update fixes the signal strength reporting, and the changes will likely be in the Froyo update when it gets here. As far as I know, the only problems are with the display and reporting of the signal, not the actual connection.

imnuts said:
The DJ05 update fixes the signal strength reporting, and the changes will likely be in the Froyo update when it gets here. As far as I know, the only problems are with the display and reporting of the signal, not the actual connection.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1 to the signal display being the only problem. I routinely make and receive calls with no bars, and my data connection RARELY goes to 1x. DJ05 seems to help, but I don't know that it fixes it completely. Coming from an iPhone (signal? what signal?) and then a Droid X (Droid 1x? Droid X Doesn't?) this phone is head and shoulders above either.

Poor Signal Reception?

Anyone else noticing a lower signal reception with this phone?
I am coming from an iPhone 4. Previously at my house I was at 4-5 bars, now 2-3.
At my work I usually had 2-3 bars, now I get no signal to 1 bar.
I was trying really hard to enjoy the phone but now that I have seen the signal at my work I think it's going to have to go back
I wonder if the Inspire would get a better signal.
Update: It's not just the bars, I make calls and texts regularly at work with my iPhone and have never had a problem. With the Atrix it is dropping to no service and I can not make a call or text.

I was just noticing this same thin as well, i'm coming a captivate and where i normally have full service, the atrix gives me 2-3 bars. That said however, i don't notice much of a difference, if any at all, in the speed of things

Signal bars are different from phone to phone. I wouldn't trust those to much. However I find this behavior odd as I get better reception on this phone vs my old one. A lot better as in 2 - 3 bars better. Were you able to make calls on you iphone when it actually had the 1 - 2 bars at your office?

Vaires from phone to phone, remember when iPhone 4 showed higher signal then it was supposed to? then apple pushed the update

Yeah I made calls and texted regularly in my office, with the Atrix it drops service enitrely (says no service) and I can't make a call or send a text
I wouldnt care about the bar difference if it wasn't for the actual no service vs never having a problem.

That is interesting , my captivate had 0 to no service in my office, while the atrix has atleast 3 bars of edge.

crawlgsx said:
Anyone else noticing a lower signal reception with this phone?
I am coming from an iPhone 4. Previously at my house I was at 4-5 bars, now 2-3.
At my work I usually had 2-3 bars, now I get no signal to 1 bar.
I was trying really hard to enjoy the phone but now that I have seen the signal at my work I think it's going to have to go back
I wonder if the Inspire would get a better signal.
Update: It's not just the bars, I make calls and texts regularly at work with my iPhone and have never had a problem. With the Atrix it is dropping to no service and I can not make a call or text.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Comparing using the bars is not going to work across different phones, besides the iPhone 4 was known for reporting more bars then other phones.
In Android go to Menu > Settings > About Phone > Status and note the signal strength.

On Verizon you could update what they call "roaming capabilities". It's not really roaming, its more like manually updating or sync'ing tower or geographic locations. It's supposed to help some issues with signal strength.
Does ATT have a method to manually re-sync in this fashion?

HAROLDS Did u even read the bottom of my post?
Sent from my MB860 using XDA App

tbae2 said:
That is interesting , my captivate had 0 to no service in my office, while the atrix has atleast 3 bars of edge.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i think that means your Captivate still tries to look for a 3G signal but the Atrix is so weak that it cannot find any 3G signal and therefore it automatically starts looking for the Edge signal.
I am saying this because I also noticed the same behavior inside my apt building elevator.

This is interesting. I guess I'll find out tomorrow, but several of my friends and I have been noticing that deadspots with our N1's and Captivates. Like no signal, no voice, no text, no data. In the same locations iPhone 4's are good to go on everything. I volunteered to be the guy that gets an Atrix to see how it does. This thread has me worried.