Related
I am not a developer; just an end-user. But I've read tons of threads, wiki entries for Herald, etc -- and I can't figure out the sequencing of what to install on my T-Mobile WING.
Everything I've read says that these OEM versions of windows come loaded down with crap that wastes device storage, and hampers performance. But I have been scratching my head trying to figure this out:
I for sure am using ifonz theme -- I have been using it for past week installed onto the T-Mobile default default, and the navigation system is so great, I love it. But I get lots of Memory error messages and freezes if I run ifonz, MortPlayer, and a browser such as NetFront or OperaMini... Just not enough memory avail to handle it all.
From reading, I have seen that various ROMs cooked here have performance boosts (whether it involves overclocking or whatever). So my question is: which ROM is best for this purpose for me -- to be the underlying windows OS running that enables me to run ifonz and several other apps without this problem?
What confuses me is that ROMs seem to be OS tweeks PLUS UI display functionality -- such as emulating the HTC Touch etc. I just can't decode all of this to understand what elements are best for my needs, and which components MUST be on device vs storage card, and which would be optimal to install on storage card so as to leave headroom on device?
I also have installed PCM Keyboard (but I can't get it to stick as the default keyboard; the windows one always comes back), MortPlayer, Comm Manager (love this!). I am so impressed by the current ifonz theme. I read the whole thread from its first release and practically every suggestion has been implemented -- that is so impressive. (I wont bog down this topic further.)
All suggestions appreciated. And thank you. I will be donating to each component's authors. Y'all are the best! I can't believe the productivity difference since modifyng my PoclketPC. Now I can actually use the many aps and utilities!
quicksite said:
I am not a developer; just an end-user. But I've read tons of threads, wiki entries for Herald, etc -- and I can't figure out the sequencing of what to install on my T-Mobile WING.
Everything I've read says that these OEM versions of windows come loaded down with crap that wastes device storage, and hampers performance. But I have been scratching my head trying to figure this out:
I for sure am using ifonz theme -- I have been using it for past week installed onto the T-Mobile default default, and the navigation system is so great, I love it. But I get lots of Memory error messages and freezes if I run ifonz, MortPlayer, and a browser such as NetFront or OperaMini... Just not enough memory avail to handle it all.
From reading, I have seen that various ROMs cooked here have performance boosts (whether it involves overclocking or whatever). So my question is: which ROM is best for this purpose for me -- to be the underlying windows OS running that enables me to run ifonz and several other apps without this problem?
What confuses me is that ROMs seem to be OS tweeks PLUS UI display functionality -- such as emulating the HTC Touch etc. I just can't decode all of this to understand what elements are best for my needs, and which components MUST be on device vs storage card, and which would be optimal to install on storage card so as to leave headroom on device?
I also have installed PCM Keyboard (but I can't get it to stick as the default keyboard; the windows one always comes back), MortPlayer, Comm Manager (love this!). I am so impressed by the current ifonz theme. I read the whole thread from its first release and practically every suggestion has been implemented -- that is so impressive. (I wont bog down this topic further.)
All suggestions appreciated. And thank you. I will be donating to each component's authors. Y'all are the best! I can't believe the productivity difference since modifyng my PoclketPC. Now I can actually use the many aps and utilities!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It really depends on your likes and disliked. Try a few and see which one fits you best.
As far as the stock ROM goes:
ROM: Stock ROM vs Just2Clean
RAM: 11mb free vs 32mb free
Storage: 26mb free vs 65mb free
So yes, a custom ROM should solve the memory issues. ^_^
Okay, thanks. so would you want to put me into the ballpark of which ROMs are lean and most efficient for my needs?
If you're suggesting the DESCRIPTIONS of the various ROMS will make that obvious to me, well, okay... but I could use some recs...
Also: A followup for my grasping the concept:
When most people here are cooking up these custom ROMs, they are selecting various apps to stitch together into on overall release, right?
If so, I am trying to understand if there are appreciable differences between
(a) A stripped bare custom ROM.... and then my then adding and manually installing a la carte cab files for things like S2U2, Comm Manager, Mort Player, etc ...
and
(b) starting with a ROM that has those aps integrated into the one cab file?
That's too hard for a lay person to understand without an expert explaining, so I hope someone will do that.
If (b) actually enables efficiencies in performance, I would obviously want to use one of those ROMS.
If they are 6 of one and half dozen of another, and no code difference whatsoever as pertains to the way those individual apps perform within the package, then I guess it doesn't matter much at all.
Should I be posting to a different forum -- like maybe the Herald forum, to get specific recommendations on which ROMS would be god for me to start ourt with knowing that my end game is to run ifonz and similar iphone-like applications?
thanks!
quicksite said:
Okay, thanks. so would you want to put me into the ballpark of which ROMs are lean and most efficient for my needs?
If you're suggesting the DESCRIPTIONS of the various ROMS will make that obvious to me, well, okay... but I could use some recs...
Also: A followup for my grasping the concept:
When most people here are cooking up these custom ROMs, they are selecting various apps to stitch together into on overall release, right?
If so, I am trying to understand if there are appreciable differences between
(a) A stripped bare custom ROM.... and then my then adding and manually installing a la carte cab files for things like S2U2, Comm Manager, Mort Player, etc ...
and
(b) starting with a ROM that has those aps integrated into the one cab file?
That's too hard for a lay person to understand without an expert explaining, so I hope someone will do that.
If (b) actually enables efficiencies in performance, I would obviously want to use one of those ROMS.
If they are 6 of one and half dozen of another, and no code difference whatsoever as pertains to the way those individual apps perform within the package, then I guess it doesn't matter much at all.
Should I be posting to a different forum -- like maybe the Herald forum, to get specific recommendations on which ROMS would be god for me to start ourt with knowing that my end game is to run ifonz and similar iphone-like applications?
thanks!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
it all depends on what you want... if you want to use apps that you only like and dont like the ones that people have cooked, go with a lite rom or a clean rom.. if some of the apps and configs that the cooks have made work for you go with the ones that are fully loaded...
ivans roms are usally neked roms ( bare bones roms that run fast and efficent because he took out all the junk that you dont need, and that also slow the rom down )...
papa has a good rom out right now even though he has it customized you can still dissable some of the stuff on his rom and tweak it how u want...
for more info on the roms for the wing check out pureskillzzz thread on the roms of xda...
im going back to watching the basketball game...
check my sig for links to a slideshow of ttrans open touch 5.0ul and papas black rom...
--------------
edit
if you like ifonz ( which I did too when i first saw it - its a good app) read up on ultimate launch or throttle launcher which takes the ifonz concept to another level... ultimate launch is good because you can customize it to look like ifonz with the icons, but you have more power with your device... ifonz is a ipod type launcher and it also drains the phones memory.
thanks very much!... that's interesting re other launchers and performance. (i know i'm in over my head but is that because ifonz was written in .NET vs native code ? i thiught i read that somewhere).
QUESTION: is there a "Browse by Photo Gallery" forum or wiki section... that lets one see the look/UI of the theme, launcher, etc of the various roms, as a means for narrowing down choices?
thx
quicksite said:
thanks very much!... that's interesting re other launchers and performance. (i know i'm in over my head but is that because ifonz was written in .NET vs native code ? i thiught i read that somewhere).
QUESTION: is there a "Browse by Photo Gallery" forum or wiki section... that lets one see the look/UI of the theme, launcher, etc of the various roms, as a means for narrowing down choices?
thx
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
nah but you can check out http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=395793
and read thru the reviews...
I recomend ttrans or papamops roms... then itjes, and ivans roms... the first 2 cause those are the ones that i have tried....
what are you looking for in a rom... read the link that i gave you about the reviews of most of the roms on here
I didn't know there are these many ROMs out there now... WOW what a collection!
To OP: to make your pcm keyboard sticky, search for SIP change. This utility will automatically change to whatever SIP you choose after reboot so you don't have to manually select it.
everyone's gonna recommend something different. i personally prefer just2clean. it's exactly that. smooth, fast, and clean. honestly, of all the roms i've ever flashed, it's the only one that i've had absolutely zero issues with. i don't mind taking the time to install each program i really want. most of the other roms come with lots of extra programs that i have no use for, and can't delete, since there isn't an add/remove item for them... they're cooked in with the rom.
so really, it all just come down to your own preference. just check the herald rom development section. i think pureskillz (maybe?) did a write up on various roms and his pros and cons on each.
alongenemylines said:
everyone's gonna recommend something different. i personally prefer just2clean. it's exactly that. smooth, fast, and clean. honestly, of all the roms i've ever flashed, it's the only one that i've had absolutely zero issues with. i don't mind taking the time to install each program i really want. most of the other roms come with lots of extra programs that i have no use for, and can't delete, since there isn't an add/remove item for them... they're cooked in with the rom.
so really, it all just come down to your own preference. just check the herald rom development section. i think pureskillz (maybe?) did a write up on various roms and his pros and cons on each.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yes that is true, but the point of trying different roms is seeing what programs and configs that you like the best, then after time ( how ever long the herald is around ) you will try a lite rom or clean rom and add the programs that you want to it... thats what im doing right now... there are a few that are great from the get go, but sometimes you dont need all that extra stuff...
that brings me back to the original question what do you want in the rom that you flash ??
thanks so much! This is exactly what I have been seeking... some kind of top-level context.
I love this community... and thank you for your personal recs as well.
wearefree said:
To OP: to make your pcm keyboard sticky, search for SIP change. This utility will automatically change to whatever SIP you choose after reboot so you don't have to manually select it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
wow! thank you so much!
alongenemylines said:
most of the other roms come with lots of extra programs that i have no use for, and can't delete, since there isn't an add/remove item for them... they're cooked in with the rom.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Another of my primary questions answered. Thanks so much! I was trying to learn the practical differences between apps cooks in, and installing cab files a la carte.
My own recap:
(1) YES, flash to a better ROM to free up memory, remove OEM junk
(2) There is no gallery of ROM photos of interfaces, but a great REVIEW thread of lots of ROMS
(3) Apps as part of the ROM makes them unremoveable.
(that recap's for other newbies like me!)
quicksite said:
Another of my primary questions answered. Thanks so much! I was trying to learn the practical differences between apps cooks in, and installing cab files a la carte.
My own recap:
(1) YES, flash to a better ROM to free up memory, remove OEM junk
(2) There is no gallery of ROM photos of interfaces, but a great REVIEW thread of lots of ROMS
(3) Apps as part of the ROM makes them unremoveable.
(that recap's for other newbies like me!)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i have slide shows of 2 herald roms and 1 wizard rom in my sig...
right now im running pappamops rom and its very good, good to use right away, just a little tweaking, has alot of storage and its fast, plus you can dissable anything that you dont want to use right now( mainly Ultimate Launch ) you will need batterystatus ( you can disable the theme )... one of the best roms if you like to put your own stuff on the phone...
Hi guys. I am in the process of doing research into making my own ROM. I would like to know if you have any requests or ideas for me to base my ROM on. I want to know if there are some features, apps or configuration that you would like to see that other ROMs may not have.
Anyway let me know here and i will try to include the most popular options.
I got one...
I L-O-V-E the Khanx Touch Navia.
HOWEVER, the only thing missing, in my opinion, is a calender tab that I can see my upcoming appointments. In the original M2D you can only see 1 app ahead.
I would like to see a ROM without M2D, but with Throttle Launcher. Not everybody likes Manilla.
Since the time I got my orbit I'm missing very simple ROM and I requested it many people:
I need just serial ROM with all the unnecessary stuff removed, such as microsoft bug report, touch cube etc, with optimization tweaks and without side software at all. I'd say lite version of the serial 6.1 ROM =)
All of us got their must-have software so just let people choose what they need.
All the ROMs existing now are a kinda clones, its have very similar functionality... The mistake of the most of rom-makers is that they are trying to provide all possible features together with their ROMs. They insert there manilla, opera, config tools and many more, and I guess it takes them a lot of time to have all this things work together. Then after some time this "extra" tools getting updated and you have to develop updated ROM and catch new bugs...
Actually, the closest software to my wishes was Bepe's software, but it's not updating anymore...
I am going to look into two versions.
Naked build
lightweight and simple.
only the essential apps (to be decided)
basic config/customisation tools
Skeleton build
bare bones
no extra apps
basic config/customisation tools.
t1m said:
Actually, the closest software to my wishes was Bepe's software, but it's not updating anymore...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I had a quick look for this, but couldn't find what you mean. can you please send me a link.
t1m said:
Since the time I got my orbit I'm missing very simple ROM and I requested it many people:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree....I tried all the new ROM's and finally went back to pre 6.1 more memory, faster speed, reliable phone and most important - Clean customised installs and screens.
I wish I could get something similar to Khanx Lite and Panosha's butterfly ! I have no interest in Manila, 3d or whatever - just a naked build and my own apps - whatever needed- installed have over 50MB to play with and nearly 2+ days battery life -what more could i ask for?
devdarshan said:
...I wish I could get something similar to Khanx Lite and Panosha's butterfly ! ...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i will check them out. sounds like a good place to start
Ideal ROM for me:
1. Fast and stable build (probably official HTC build is better than some leaked build)
2. Minimum software - no cube, no customer feebback, no opera, no manila, no windows live and live messenger etc.
3. Performance tweaks included
4. Video call support (I mention this since recently many chefs drop this functionality from their ROMs)
5. Maximum free RAM
How about a kind of tracker app?
I am planning to cook a ROM for me including this app:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=394203
Also remove some apps to make the system faster.
In my case, I dont need the audio booster, audio manager, calculator and getting started.
Regards,
Luciano
HTC Cruise
Rio de Janeiro, Brasil
How's the cooking going Jabba1701?
lucianok said:
How about a kind of tracker app?
I am planning to cook a ROM for me including this app:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=394203
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That won't help you at all Luciano. The program works by sending the location to another phone by sms. That phone number has to be cooked in the ROM, else it would be gone upon hard reset. So this kind of applications only works when you cook your own personal ROM.
Jabba1701
I agree with the "Skeleton build".
This is a numbers game - quite a few posts have wished for such a skeleton ROM, but many more seem to like all the doo-dads and frippery being cooked into the ROM's on offer. Since most chefs quite rightly wish for donations, they choose the doo-dad route.
The basic reasons I dislike the doo-dads is that I have no use for most of them (I use the device as a mini-computer as much as a phone), they consume flash memory and RAM and you cannot update them without flashing a new ROM.
M'Amine's kitchen and one of his new ROM's is the place to start, I suggest. He has not protected his ROM's so we can completely dis-assemble them, remove the doo-dads and re-cook.
I'm slowly wending my way through this process now. The basic difficulty is figuring out all of the folders, files and Registry references associated with those doo-dads I want to remove.
working on this ROM has been pushed back in the queue a fair bit. We are currently getting our house up for sale so we can move for our kids school next year and my wife's new job. There are a few things i'd like to look at to make testing the ROMs a bit easier and quicker (ie an emulator or similar) but i really haven't had the time to even google it.
Hi, I agree with all previous comments. In my case I like to build my own UI with WAD so I do not like m2d/manila/htc roms. They look all the same to me and I still end using additional software for photos, music and even contacts
I am very happy with the rom I am using: swtos light rom (see my signature).
The only problem is swtos is not anymore with a touch so I do not expect any updates to new builds. I would say I have a 0 bugs rom, with 160 mb for programs and circa 50 mb free ram. I do not plan to go back to wm 6.1 official or to try other roms if I do not have relevant new features over this one in terms of performance.
Since swtos is not cooking polaris anymore he may be willing to share the kitchen. You can see in the thread that people is happy with this rom and missing swtos new work.
I have a couple of suggestions:
- naked roms are so naked that are only good for very advanced users. light roms most of the times already include config tools, ui and basic programs. I think a really naked but pre-configured rom would be great.
- I would suggest to explore radio compatibility. It seems to be a nightmare quite often and many people do not want to flash the phone many times.
- I suggest to concentrate on performance, scrolling and Ram recovery and exploit current hardware as it is rather than bringing it to the limit (eg. 3d drivers)
Bepes rom I think is much older than swtos so even if it is well known for its stability, I would not use it as the starting point.
Good luck !
I'm attempting to build an ultra-clean ROM from one of the public releases recently.
I tried one from c_shekhar but it contained some very confusing (to me) entries on Language and SYS versions.
Trying one of M'Amine's next
ianl8888 said:
Jabba1701
I agree with the "Skeleton build".
This is a numbers game - quite a few posts have wished for such a skeleton ROM, but many more seem to like all the doo-dads and frippery being cooked into the ROM's on offer. Since most chefs quite rightly wish for donations, they choose the doo-dad route.
The basic reasons I dislike the doo-dads is that I have no use for most of them (I use the device as a mini-computer as much as a phone), they consume flash memory and RAM and you cannot update them without flashing a new ROM.
M'Amine's kitchen and one of his new ROM's is the place to start, I suggest. He has not protected his ROM's so we can completely dis-assemble them, remove the doo-dads and re-cook.
I'm slowly wending my way through this process now. The basic difficulty is figuring out all of the folders, files and Registry references associated with those doo-dads I want to remove.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
sorry mate, not sure how i missed your post when giving an update.
I am the same as you with how i use my phone, it is more like an organiser and computer that just happens to have a phone in it. I use mine for Geocaching, tomtom, email, twitter, photos, brain training games..... and i occasionally get a phone call or SMS or two.
Do-dads are great fun to try out, but the novelty wears out over time, and they just suck up resources and slow other apps down and hurt stability.
At the moment i am trying out the more popular lite ROMS to see what they do and how they perform so i can get a feel of to expect from mine.
This application helps ROM building, by automating some tasks. The idea behind it is that a lot of tasks involving erasing applications from the ROM can be automated (like delete some files, erase some keys from the registry and from the initflashfiles.dat). So I've build a tool that helps automating these tasks.
The advantages of this solution are:
* Create a custom ROM which suit your needs, and leave out everything else (even drivers, and other things, that you'll never use)
* If you have automated tasks, they may be ported easily to newer ROM versions, so you don't have to do everything multiple times
Disadvantages:
* Creating scripts are sometimes harder than simply deleting files (but they may worth the time)
* It is impossible to predict whether a specific task configuration will work, or not (there may be questions like: will the Widgets work, when I delete the FM radio or not?)
Although this tool is made for the Samsung Omnia kitchen (I own an omnia, so I can only test on it) it should work with any other kitchen availalable. Some of the "easier" tasks (like "Remove Office", "Update .NET to 3.5", etc.) will work on any WM6.1 kitchen, which extracts the SYS part in the SYS folder in the root of the kitchen. If you happen to make some tasks for your device, I'll help port some device-specific parts of SYAKR to your device (which is the ROM version handling part)
DL link: http://winmo.sztupy.hu/syakr.html
HowTo for Omnia: http://www.modaco.com/index.php?s=&showtopic=277641
Omnia kitchen: http://winmo.sztupy.hu/syok.html
0.9
version 0.9 is out with more robust registry editing/cleaning support.
Get it from here: http://www.modaco.com/index.php?s=&showtopic=277390&view=findpost&p=949837
nice app! anyone have tried with htc rom????
I don't think so. I only have an omnia, so I can't try it out either. If the kitchen is mostly the same (and I think they are) then it should work though.
Yes Sztupy!!
I looking for CAB to OEM stuff, i used the ones you pointed me at, but it rarely works and i do not like the unstability of it.
Can you not build this function into your app. The reverse of what you are doing?
I wondering if the CAB stuff these guys use would work in our kitchen? Or Sztupy, you know of any other packages that i can use?
Been looking for a while now, i need to do this so i don't have to install all my apps & M2D after flashes (not all, depends how hot the stove is..).
Nice to see you here anyways. Take care.
Just to confirm to non Omnia people here (which will be most of you), Sztupy's app works perfectly and quickly. It hasn't let me down at all. It is very easy to use and does what it is supposed.
I now cook my own ROMs because of Sztupy, he kind of persuaded me to do it and his app makes life so much better.
I just need to get my own apps in there to cook up some tasty ROMs.
I think people at XDA use the same packages-creator app I pointed at (it's on the xda wiki). It simply extracts the cab, and then creates the appropriate registry and initff files. Unfortunately a lot of appllications have a setup.dll part, which modify a lot of things during setup, and it cannot be extracted (it's a separate program). the only way to crack it, is to install the application on your phone, and track down the changes the installation did (like registry changes, file changes, etc.). It's a slow process, but I don't think there is a better alternative (except for of course use an emulator, but applications like M2D would not work on an emulator I think)
Homepage is up: http://winmo.sztupy.hu/syakr.html
1.0 RC1
1.0 RC1 is out.
Updates
- New actions: simple delete and move
- Change base directory for simple actions
Get it here: http://winmo.sztupy.hu/syakr.html
Or if you're an omnia user try the all-in-one kitchen with auto-update feature:
http://winmo.sztupy.hu/syok.html
You are the MAN!!!
I grip this and use for my next set of ROMs. I gonna try some customisation stuff that ParleyP (from this forum) helped me with.
Don't know if it can be built into your APP, would be nice if it could.
Keep em coming Sztupy!
I'm not sure you even know how amazing your are
thanks dude
Hi
Another quick question by me... Lol, as the title says.
Thanks, again
Depends on the application. Manila sure will since it's basically always running and also adds tons of files to your file system, but other apps will not unless you are running the app actively. Ultimately, the fewer files you have in your rom, the faster it will generally perform. A stripped down rom will be faster than a bloated rom any day (all other factors being equal). Things like HTC Phone Canvas will eat up about 10MB of ram, which will also slow your device, so you could go with the WM stock dialer, but then you lose features. So, you may have to decide which is more important, features or speed.
Zeem... whe you think your quick questions were resolved please change the name of your quick question to solved
indagroove said:
Depends on the application. Manila sure will since it's basically always running and also adds tons of files to your file system, but other apps will not unless you are running the app actively. Ultimately, the fewer files you have in your rom, the faster it will generally perform. A stripped down rom will be faster than a bloated rom any day (all other factors being equal). Things like HTC Phone Canvas will eat up about 10MB of ram, which will also slow your device, so you could go with the WM stock dialer, but then you lose features. So, you may have to decide which is more important, features or speed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks mate That's what I was looking for.
And sure QuePPC
thanks a lot buddy
I disagree here a little.
Cooking in applications doesn't slow down the rom.
It depends on system resources the application is using.
A installed cab after is using system recources as well.
Manila is a bad example to my opinion as it's actually a system itself if you know what I mean.
I don't think lighter roms per definition will perform faster but it's the choice of applications that make the rom fast.
Laurentius26 said:
I disagree here a little.
Cooking in applications doesn't slow down the rom.
It depends on system resources the application is using.
A installed cab after is using system recources as well.
Manila is a bad example to my opinion as it's actually a system itself if you know what I mean.
I don't think lighter roms per definition will perform faster but it's the choice of applications that make the rom fast.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree with leo here. A bloated ROM will not outperform a light ROM "any day". A bloated ROM with a bunch of services or DLLs that are always loaded in RAM, will generally speaking, perform slower, but THAT's not always the case.
NRGZ28 said:
I agree with leo here. A bloated ROM will not outperform a light ROM "any day". A bloated ROM with a bunch of services or DLLs that are always loaded in RAM, will generally speaking, perform slower, but THAT's not always the case.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My benchmark testing of bloated roms vs stripped roms (all other factors being equal) show that bloated roms do in fact benchmark with lower scores than stripped roms. Of course there is a difference between benchmark tests and real world application.
If you don't believe me, perhaps you'll believe bepe, the genius who created the very tools we use for cooking:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=3218754&postcount=49
bepe said:
More files in the rom mean slower OS
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
indagroove said:
My benchmark testing of bloated roms vs stripped roms (all other factors being equal) show that bloated roms do in fact benchmark with lower scores than stripped roms. Of course there is a difference between benchmark tests and real world application.
If you don't believe me, perhaps you'll believe bepe, the genius who created the very tools we use for cooking:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=3218754&postcount=49
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That was true with older devices. I'm not so sure that applies to current, modern devices which we cook for. No doubt, bepe is a smart guy, but... all the programmers I've met in my life don't really have a clue about much of anything, BUT what they do... > programming. Da_G would be one exception to that, but they're few and far between.
If I'm not mistaking cooking in a application means there's more available ram because the application is already preserved in rom.
Installing a cab after means it will use more mem as it's loaded completely in ram.
The more ram you use the slower the device.
Cooking in a application in rom shouldn't affect the speed as long as it doesn't use system recources (running the app, ram).
Probably a benchmark right after flash will tell you that the light rom is faster but what about if you start using the rom and a user needs to install cabs because of the apps he's missing?
So on the long therm a 'bloated' rom will gain more speed then the light rom because the apps are already in rom.
Maybe I'm wrong but that's how I always taught about it.
It seems to me that there are two ways to view the question posed by the OP. One is the question of whether cooking in applications slows down the rom vs installing the same applications via cab. The other is whether cooking in more applications slows down the rom assuming that you never cab install the application post flash.
In regards to the question of cooking in vs cab install, I'm not sure why you would think that cab installing would somehow permanently take up ram space, unless by "ram" you're referring to storage space. But consider the fact that with many applications you have quite a bit of initflashfiles.dat code to go along with it. Take one of the most commonly cooked in applications in roms today, Opera Mobile -- here's what my initflashfiles.dat for Opera looks like these days:
Code:
Directory("\Windows"):-Directory("Opera9")
Directory("\Windows\Opera9"):-Directory("profile")
Directory("\Windows\Opera9\profile"):-Directory("help")
Directory("\Windows\Opera9\profile\help"):-Directory("imgcss")
Directory("\Windows\Opera9\profile"):-Directory("images")
Directory("\Windows\Opera9\profile"):-Directory("jsplugins")
Directory("\Windows\Opera9\profile"):-Directory("locale")
Directory("\Windows\Opera9\profile"):-Directory("Settings")
Directory("\Windows\Opera9\profile\Settings"):-Directory("Imgs")
Directory("\Windows\Opera9\profile"):-Directory("skin")
Directory("\Windows\Opera9\profile"):-Directory("styles")
Directory("\Windows\Opera9\profile\styles"):-Directory("images")
Directory("\Windows\Opera9\profile\styles"):-Directory("user")
Directory("\Windows"):-File("Opera9.exe","\Windows\Opera9.exe")
Directory("\Windows"):-File("OperaL.exe","\Windows\OperaL.exe")
Directory("\Windows\Opera9"):-File("Opera_loading_POR_16bit_default.png","\Windows\Opera_loading_POR_16bit_default.png")
Directory("\Windows\Opera9"):-File("Opera_loading_Landscape_16bit_default.png","\Windows\Opera_loading_Landscape_16bit_default.png")
Directory("\Windows\Opera9"):-File("line.png","\Windows\line.png")
Directory("\Windows"):-File("HTC_opera.png","\Windows\HTC_opera.png")
Directory("\Windows\Opera9\profile"):-File("axobjects.ini","\Windows\axobjects.ini")
Directory("\Windows\Opera9\profile"):-File("encoding.bin","\Windows\encoding.bin")
Directory("\Windows\Opera9\profile"):-File("html40_entities.dtd","\Windows\html40_entities.dtd")
Directory("\Windows\Opera9\profile"):-File("input.ini","\Windows\input.ini")
Directory("\Windows\Opera9\profile"):-File("svg_mono.dat","\Windows\svg_mono.dat")
Directory("\Windows\Opera9\profile"):-File("svg_serif.dat","\Windows\svg_serif.dat")
Directory("\Windows\Opera9\profile"):-File("svg_ss.dat","\Windows\svg_ss.dat")
Directory("\Windows\Opera9\profile"):-File("svg-mo.dat","\Windows\svg-mo.dat")
Directory("\Windows\Opera9\profile"):-File("svg-mobd.dat","\Windows\svg-mobd.dat")
Directory("\Windows\Opera9\profile"):-File("svg-moit.dat","\Windows\svg-moit.dat")
Directory("\Windows\Opera9\profile"):-File("svg-sa.dat","\Windows\svg-sa.dat")
Directory("\Windows\Opera9\profile"):-File("svg-sabd.dat","\Windows\svg-sabd.dat")
Directory("\Windows\Opera9\profile"):-File("svg-se.dat","\Windows\svg-se.dat")
Directory("\Windows\Opera9\profile"):-File("svg-sebd.dat","\Windows\svg-sebd.dat")
Directory("\Windows\Opera9\profile"):-File("svg-ssit.dat","\Windows\svg-ssit.dat")
Directory("\Windows\Opera9\profile"):-File("browser.js","\Windows\browser.js")
Directory("\Windows\Opera9\profile"):-File("wml1_entities.dtd","\Windows\wml1_entities.dtd")
Directory("\Windows\Opera9\profile"):-File("xmlentities.ini","\Windows\xmlentities.ini")
Directory("\Windows\Opera9\profile"):-File("user.js","\Windows\user.js")
Directory("\Windows\Opera9\profile\help\imgcss"):-File("bullet.gif","\Windows\bullet.gif")
Directory("\Windows\Opera9\profile\help\imgcss"):-File("help.css","\Windows\help.css")
Directory("\Windows\Opera9\profile\help\imgcss"):-File("logo.png","\Windows\logo.png")
Directory("\Windows\Opera9\profile\help\imgcss"):-File("top_pattern.png","\Windows\top_pattern.png")
Directory("\Windows\Opera9\profile\images"):-File("arrow.png","\Windows\arrow.png")
Directory("\Windows\Opera9\profile\images"):-File("beam.png","\Windows\beam.png")
Directory("\Windows\Opera9\profile\images"):-File("blank.gif","\Windows\blank.gif")
Directory("\Windows\Opera9\profile\images"):-File("cross.png","\Windows\cross.png")
Directory("\Windows\Opera9\profile\images"):-File("delete.png","\Windows\delete.png")
Directory("\Windows\Opera9\profile\images"):-File("drive.gif","\Windows\drive.gif")
Directory("\Windows\Opera9\profile\images"):-File("error.png","\Windows\error.png")
Directory("\Windows\Opera9\profile\images"):-File("file.gif","\Windows\file.gif")
Directory("\Windows\Opera9\profile\images"):-File("folder.gif","\Windows\folder.gif")
Directory("\Windows\Opera9\profile\images"):-File("forward.png","\Windows\forward.png")
Directory("\Windows\Opera9\profile\images"):-File("hand.png","\Windows\hand.png")
Directory("\Windows\Opera9\profile\images"):-File("info.png","\Windows\info.png")
Directory("\Windows\Opera9\profile\images"):-File("link.gif","\Windows\link.gif")
Directory("\Windows\Opera9\profile\images"):-File("move.png","\Windows\move.png")
Directory("\Windows\Opera9\profile\images"):-File("oom.png","\Windows\oom.png")
Directory("\Windows\Opera9\profile\images"):-File("open.png","\Windows\open.png")
Directory("\Windows\Opera9\profile\images"):-File("opwidget.ico","\Windows\opwidget.ico")
Directory("\Windows\Opera9\profile\images"):-File("question.png","\Windows\question.png")
Directory("\Windows\Opera9\profile\images"):-File("reload.png","\Windows\reload.png")
Directory("\Windows\Opera9\profile\images"):-File("stop.png","\Windows\stop.png")
Directory("\Windows\Opera9\profile\images"):-File("trash.png","\Windows\trash.png")
Directory("\Windows\Opera9\profile\images"):-File("wait.png","\Windows\wait.png")
Directory("\Windows\Opera9\profile\images"):-File("warning.png","\Windows\warning.png")
Directory("\Windows\Opera9\profile\locale"):-File("search.ini","\Windows\search.ini")
Directory("\Windows\Opera9\profile\Settings"):-File("settings.html","\Windows\settings.html")
Directory("\Windows\Opera9\profile\Settings\Imgs"):-File("bar_closed.png","\Windows\bar_closed.png")
Directory("\Windows\Opera9\profile\Settings\Imgs"):-File("bar_open.png","\Windows\bar_open.png")
Directory("\Windows\Opera9\profile\Settings\Imgs"):-File("list_btn.png","\Windows\list_btn.png")
Directory("\Windows\Opera9\profile\Settings\Imgs"):-File("txt_fld.png","\Windows\txt_fld.png")
Directory("\Windows\Opera9\profile\skin"):-File("standard_skin.zip","\Windows\standard_skin.zip")
Directory("\Windows\Opera9\profile\styles"):-File("about.css","\Windows\about.css")
Directory("\Windows\Opera9\profile\styles"):-File("cache.css","\Windows\cache.css")
Directory("\Windows\Opera9\profile\styles"):-File("certinfo.css","\Windows\certinfo.css")
Directory("\Windows\Opera9\profile\styles"):-File("config.css","\Windows\config.css")
Directory("\Windows\Opera9\profile\styles"):-File("dir.css","\Windows\dir.css")
Directory("\Windows\Opera9\profile\styles"):-File("drives.css","\Windows\drives.css")
Directory("\Windows\Opera9\profile\styles"):-File("error.css","\Windows\error.css")
Directory("\Windows\Opera9\profile\styles"):-File("history.css","\Windows\history.css")
Directory("\Windows\Opera9\profile\styles"):-File("info.css","\Windows\info.css")
Directory("\Windows\Opera9\profile\styles"):-File("mime.css","\Windows\mime.css")
Directory("\Windows\Opera9\profile\styles"):-File("plugins.css","\Windows\plugins.css")
Directory("\Windows\Opera9\profile\styles"):-File("wml.css","\Windows\wml.css")
Directory("\Windows\Opera9\profile\styles\images"):-File("88c.png","\Windows\88c.png")
Directory("\Windows\Opera9\profile\styles\images"):-File("bar.png","\Windows\bar.png")
Directory("\Windows\Opera9\profile\styles\images"):-File("center.png","\Windows\center.png")
Directory("\Windows\Opera9\profile\styles\images"):-File("folder.gif","\Windows\folder.gif")
Directory("\Windows\Opera9\profile\styles\images"):-File("opera.png","\Windows\opera.png")
Directory("\Windows\Opera9\profile\styles\images"):-File("root.png","\Windows\root.png")
Directory("\Windows\Opera9\profile\styles\images"):-File("top.png","\Windows\top.png")
Directory("\Windows\Opera9\profile\styles\user"):-File("accessibility.css","\Windows\accessibility.css")
Directory("\Windows\Opera9\profile\styles\user"):-File("contrastbw.css","\Windows\contrastbw.css")
Directory("\Windows\Opera9\profile\styles\user"):-File("contrastwb.css","\Windows\contrastwb.css")
Directory("\Windows\Opera9\profile\styles\user"):-File("debugwithoutline.css","\Windows\debugwithoutline.css")
Directory("\Windows\Opera9\profile\styles\user"):-File("disabletables.css","\Windows\disabletables.css")
Directory("\Windows\Opera9\profile\styles\user"):-File("hidecertainsizes.css","\Windows\hidecertainsizes.css")
Directory("\Windows\Opera9\profile\styles\user"):-File("hidenonlinkimages.css","\Windows\hidenonlinkimages.css")
Directory("\Windows\Opera9\profile\styles\user"):-File("imageandlinkonly.css","\Windows\imageandlinkonly.css")
Directory("\Windows\Opera9\profile\styles\user"):-File("nostalgia.css","\Windows\nostalgia.css")
Directory("\Windows\Opera9\profile\styles\user"):-File("showstructure.css","\Windows\showstructure.css")
Directory("\Windows\Opera9\profile\styles\user"):-File("textonly.css","\Windows\textonly.css")
Directory("\Windows\Opera9\profile\styles\user"):-File("userstyle.ini","\Windows\userstyle.ini")
Directory("\Windows\Start Menu\Programs\Internet\"):-File("Opera Browser.lnk","\Windows\Opera Browser.lnk")
So, what does this mean? It means that for every line of code, you have double the files that are needed to actually run this application. What's going on here is that every files gets put in the windows folder and is also copied to the designation specified in the code, which is where it is actually used. There files are in most cases not ever used at all in the windows folder, but there are there nonetheless. I guess a really slick chef would write a provxml that would delete all the duplicates in windows for a really slim rom (that would be a neat trick).
When you cab install these same applications, the files are installed directly the the designated folders, and you don't get duplicate files put in the windows folder like when you cook them in.
I know, you're gonna say "so ok maybe you have some extra files, who cares?" Well, a few extra files are cool but they really do start to add up over time. Take the Manila packages for example. I think that most Manila 2.5 these days is typically over 3000 files. When your device has to run an app that resides in the windows folder, it has to search through all the files that are in the windows folder to find the needed file(s). The more files in the windows folder, the longer it takes to find and load the desired file = fact. How much longer does it take is the real question. Is it something that we can actually perceive, or can it only be found through benchmarking. The point can easily be proven/disproven by any competent chef by doing a Manila build, then disable manila and benchmark. Next build an identical rom without manila and benchmark that rom. I can pretty much guarantee that the rom without manila will out perform the rom that includes manila, even with manila disabled.
The other thing to consider with cab installs vs cooking apps, is that many apps have dll and exe files as modules natively, and when these modules are cooked in, they are loaded into the xip, which obviously occupies xip space and can potentially eat up ram. When you cab install apps, the modules are converted to files in the cab installer, and do not occupy the same xip space. Typically more space in the xip = faster processing and more available ram.
Firstly, awesome replies. Oh and to make my original post more specific, I was basically asking: "Do more files in the ROM make it slower?" But I'm glad that there were other answers
indagroove said:
I guess a really slick chef would write a provxml that would delete all the duplicates in windows for a really slim rom (that would be a neat trick).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm almost finished with making something much like this an automated process
indagroove said:
Typically more space in the xip = faster processing and more available ram.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
When do modules go into RAM? And if lots of modules are cooked in, but none to Slot 0, will it still affect overall performance negatively? I remember Da_G saying that with new windows 6.5, we have more freedom when using modules.
seeM_ZA said:
Firstly, awesome replies. Oh and to make my original post more specific, I was basically asking: "Do more files in the ROM make it slower?" But I'm glad that there were other answers
I'm almost finished with making something much like this an automated process
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It can't be done. Those files are in ROM. The files aren't duplicated they are linked. So there is no a waste of space, only you get a really crowded windows folder.
When do modules go into RAM? And if lots of modules are cooked in, but none to Slot 0, will it still affect overall performance negatively? I remember Da_G saying that with new windows 6.5, we have more freedom when using modules.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
When you install an application it goes to the "writable part of imgfs" kindof, it is not ram. That was in 2003 era
mac_es said:
It can't be done. Those files are in ROM. The files aren't duplicated they are linked. So there is no a waste of space, only you get a really crowded windows folder.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is the first time I'm seeing this?
mac_es said:
The files aren't duplicated they are linked. So there is no a waste of space, only you get a really crowded windows folder.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They appear to be duplicated to me, unless I'm missing something. Look at your opera skin in the Opera9/profile/skin folder. It is the exact same size as the same file in the windows folder.
Okay so atleast that's cleared up...
How exactly do you delete files with a .provxml's? Is it any different to just going and deleting a file with Total Commander? 'Cause when I tried that it didn't work, even after removing system attributes and what not..
Can you remove files from Windows dir?
indagroove said:
They appear to be duplicated to me, unless I'm missing something. Look at your opera skin in the Opera9/profile/skin folder. It is the exact same size as the same file in the windows folder.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The only way to get rid of files cooked into windows is with Task 29.
Laurentius26 said:
Can you remove files from Windows dir?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
We all know we cant.. do that, some apps lets you overwrite some files... and some apps lets you delete some files, i guess is something related to attribs like "system file" or "read only" i dont know exactly.
Farmer Ted said:
The only way to get rid of files cooked into windows is with Task 29.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
or... flash your device... and unplug it from the pc when the upgrade is in any percentage of progress
I guess this guy is asking the same as me...
Wich Programs use the files in Programfiles directory... and wich programs use the windows path files?
I know all the standalone exe programs can read or are compiled to read files directly from Windows\ and some other have in the registry the path to program files folder and of course subfolders, or simply hardcoded in exe to read in program files.
If you use app.dat you will see that you have the exact files into program files\ and in windows... so yes! is a waste of storage to have them but... most of the programs use that path to work.
Nope I do think they are in ROM and not in RAM so Mac_es is right there are no duplicates.
+ Que PPC said:
We all know we cant.. do that, some apps lets you overwrite some files... and some apps lets you delete some files, i guess is something related to attribs like "system file" or "read only" i dont know exactly.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Eg, when using Task Manager on PC, i go to the CPU prosess tab and now im able to change the CPU priority of any program to: very high/high/medium/low/very low.
Can we do this with WM?
Rn
You can set the priority level of a thread, not of a process.
The system scheduler works quite different from desktop Windows. A thread with a priority level above normal can lock the entire system. An application must be designed very well if it want to change the priority level of one of its threads.
...
id like to 'trial and error'.
i understand the risk of locking the system = my own fault if it does.
but id still like to know your info about the system scheduler and changing the priorties please.
even if i cant get it to do what i want, ill still learn something new
Rn
ps, thanks for your reply
raving_nanza said:
but id still like to know your info about the system scheduler and changing the priorties please.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Here you find to both subjects a very good answer.
Just install dotfred's task manager, and set the priorities with it. If you screw up, it doesn't matter. A soft reset restores them to the stock configuration.
...
cheers dude, ill download and try it now.
Rn
update
i tried dot fred TM, but didnt like it though :/
cant i just add a .reg for each specific program that i want to have a higher cpu priority?
eg, something like this:
Dword="priority256", Value="XXX"
("XXX" = eg: "255" is normal priority)
???
Rn
raving_nanza said:
i tried dot fred TM, but didnt like it though :/
cant i just add a .reg for each specific program that i want to have a higher cpu priority?
eg, something like this:
Dword="priority256", Value="XXX"
("XXX" = eg: "255" is normal priority)
???
Rn
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not that I'm aware of; this stuff isn't set in the registry, except for a few thread priorities for the file system that are in the boot.rgu, and aren't user accessible. You can get a program called Speedbooster that will automatically watch for specific processes opening, and will then adjust thread priorities to however you want them. Wait, I'll save you the time and money, because it sucks. It changes all thread priorities for a given process, and most of the time makes things worse instead of better. You're better off just doing it with a task manager manually for a while, and then giving up and realizing it's a waste of time. Lol.
...
Farmer Ted said:
Wait, I'll save you the time and money, because it sucks. It changes all thread priorities for a given process, and most of the time makes things worse instead of better.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah i already found SpeedBooster on google but its not freeware, which cant be cooked into roms
I suppose it would be cool if someone develops an app dedicated to do this = no task manager, no nonsense, no nothing, just a simple small app which lets you select a program and set its priority.. Simples!
Farmer Ted said:
and then giving up and realizing it's a waste of time. Lol.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Basicly i wanted to increase the priority of Total Commander and Opera10 because their the main two programs i use. (probably the main two programs everyone uses.)
I think your right though dude, ill take your advice and give up now before i do waste my time, my precious ORD time! lol
Cheers dude!
Rn
I tried increasing the priorities of PIE and UCWEB with sppedbooster, and the problem is that it slows down finger-scrolling dramatically, to the point that the browsers were unusable. You can make a sppedbooster package, but just not distribute it. I cooked it in for a while, when I was determined to convince myself I hadn't blown twenty bucks on a piece of crap.
Why do you need to speed up total commander? I use it all the time, too, and it's pretty snappy. I'd suggest limiting the number of processes and not using manila to optimize speed.
...
Farmer Ted said:
I tried increasing the priorities of PIE and UCWEB with sppedbooster, and the problem is that it slows down finger-scrolling dramatically, to the point that the browsers were unusable. You can make a sppedbooster package, but just not distribute it. I cooked it in for a while, when I was determined to convince myself I hadn't blown twenty bucks on a piece of crap. Why do you need to speed up total commander? I use it all the time, too, and it's pretty snappy. I'd suggest limiting the number of processes and not using manila to optimize speed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i wanted to speed up total commander because its slow at accessing some folders eg, accessing the windows folder, there is a lag i dont like waiting for and increasing the cpu priorities for TC would reduce this lag
ive deleted the manila package, it eats up way too much storage/ram, so iv made my own skin for a today screen, which is aprox 1mb.
obviously manila is eye candy but im prepared to loose it for the increase in storage/ram.
i also didnt want manila in my rom due to the fact i dont actually like it, ok some stuff is cool eg, album and audio manager the way they rotate and the slide effect but its so gdam popular so most roms look the same, i wanted my rom to be differant. (i didnt want to be a sheep )
you gave me an idea for increasing the touch velocity of the finger scrolling, could anyone tell me whats the highest velocity were able to use?
(both up and down velocities? )
is there one for left and right?
(obviously there must be, but do you know whats it called so i can find it?)
thanks again dude!
Rn
The easiest way to speed up access to the windows folder is just to select 'hide files in rom' in the settings. Then you can get into it quickly. Looking at rom files is pretty useless most of the time, anyway. The downside is that TC then doesn't show the plugins folder in the device root. You can also set shortcuts on the hotlist to folders you might want to access, like startup or the start menu. Finally, you can just limit the number of rom files during cooking to speed things up; the fewer the better, obviously.
...
Farmer Ted said:
The easiest way to speed up access to the windows folder is just to select 'hide files in rom' in the settings. Then you can get into it quickly. Looking at rom files is pretty useless most of the time, anyway.
The downside is that TC then doesn't show the plugins folder in the device root. You can also set shortcuts on the hotlist to folders you might want to access, like startup or the start menu. Finally, you can just limit the number of rom files during cooking to speed things up; the fewer the better, obviously.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
id rather have everything viewable in the rom rather than to hide files, useless or not. im sure everyone else would probably do the same, that way you can see exactly what you have got.
i also like to have hidden files always viewable on my pc too. eg, in my kitchen nothing is hidden, ive went through every folder and almost every file has had its hidden properties removed, including the files that dont un-hide when using the hidden files toggle on pc, which was weird
the plugin folder is one of the main functions i use TC for as i dont use regedit.exe or any other registry viewer other than TC. so i wouldnt want to be dissabling that function, if i dissable it i may as well add fexplore.exe back into the rom and use that instead
yeah, thats one of the good things about TC = the ability to create shortcuts with the >>>, however i always make them myself with a good old .txt file with the link wrote inside
agreed, the less files the better, obviously lol
at the moment my rom for blackstone is 103mb ... storage is aprox (18 - 20mb) ... ram is aprox (40 - 50mb) in use after the initial first boot and customisation.
ill search my kitchen for the finger velocity up/down scroll tonight.
if i can improve the scroll ill be nbecause the scroll is really crap!
Rn
btw:
if anyone wants to Alpha test my rom then private message me because i wont be uploading it for public use untill its Beta.
im just finishing the today screen skin but ill start letting people Alpha test it after that.
(basicly to find bugs, recomendations bla bla bla.)
I totally forgot this, but the process manager in sk tools has an option to create shortcuts with a command line that will change priorities. You could create one for total commander, and then use a mortscript that would launch TC, maybe wait a few seconds, then run the shortcut to bump up the priority.