OK I have G1 T-mo, it was on stock 1.6.
Yesterday I followed carefully the instructions on http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=5214290#post5214290
the ultimate beginner guide:
I downgraded the G1
Then rooted it and used Amon Ra recovery
Installed the Cyanongen Mod
Flashed the Radio and SPL
Then I used the new Super D with the arabic support
All was great, except the market was not downloading anything.
Kept using it today, then when battery was getting drained I plugged it to the wall and was browsing the news... Suddenly I got the Boot screen, so i selected the ''press menu'' to shut down.
tried to reboot normally, got some lines on the screen, then a white screen then nothing at all
It doesn't boot, doesn't turn on the LED if i plug it in the wall... tried all the back and end, camera and end etc nothing working
is it totally dead? what can be the reason?
it was working perfectly well and really fast since yesterday with all the EXT3 and sawp etc!!
any ideas?
thanks
As long as you can boot into the recovery menu then your G1 is not dead. The ROM probably just went bad somewhere.
I recommend you to use Cyanogen until Super D gets sorted out. I was on the latest Super D and that was soooo slow and laggy that I just wiped and went to Cyanogen.
I can't log to recovery screen! it stays black screen no matter what i press!
Your phone's dead. There's nothing anyone can do for you. Send it in for warranty, or buy a new phone.
ok even if it is dead, can some one please help me to understand what/what happened?
I mean all the installation and flashing etc went well and the mobile was perfect for 24 hrs!
hendfarid said:
ok even if it is dead, can some one please help me to understand what/what happened?
I mean all the installation and flashing etc went well and the mobile was perfect for 24 hrs!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Did u overclock it?
one thing you can try is switching battery, if you have a spare or a friend that has a g1 use their battery real quick.. i had a similiar problem.. phone would stay black but an off-black color like it was trying to light up, charging indicator wouldnt light up either while it was plugged.. nothing booted, got another battery and it worked.. now i have a 2800mAH =)
Hi,
No I didn't overclock it.
My G1 stays totally black, no back light, no feedback when i try to start it either! I will try to look for a battery
Keep it official
You should of just used the official release of Super D from bbuchacher.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=613809
It would have saved you alot of headaches right now.
Since I first flashed the Super D Rom I knew I wasn't going to change it for anything else for the life of my G1.
Hopefully someone can help you with your issue, like someone else said maybe its your battery.
Sounds like a hardware issue of some sort. Original battery?
Thanks I do wish it works, if it does I will move to the original Super D, it was very fast (with the Arabic text and applications)!
Yes it is the original battery, I will try and find one to test it with.
I wish it will be the battery and bad luck that it died after the new Rom
Related
Please Help me!
So I Flashed my Wing to a new rom (Open Touch v2.7), and it was working fine for a couple of hours, than it started acting up (Freezing up). so I pulled the battery and let it sit for a while, a little while after, I went to turn it on, and IT WOULDNT BOOT UP AT ALL (stays dead, off)!! After hours of trying to get it to respond, it finally got into bootloader mode and I flashed it back to the Shipped T-mobile Rom, it was working fine for a minute but when I turned it off and went to turn it back on IT WONT BOOT UP AGAIN, It just stays Dead! It doesnt even respond to charging (Unless I somehow get into bootloader mode after hours)
As of right now im continously trying to do a hard resset but it just stays dead and just trying to get it to start up at all, does anyone kno what the problem is Please?!
the battery?
or you got a lemon..... :'(
My Herald got the exact same problem after only 2 months of usage and back then it was still running WM5 stock ROM. I mailed the store I bought it from and got a replacement battery, that solved the problem.
battery
i put my battery into a diffirent Wing and it worked fine... do you still think changing the battery will help??
i put my battery into a diffirent Wing and it worked fine... do you still think changing the battery will help??
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If that is the case, no I don´t think it will help you.
If I read your post right it won´t charge but the chargelight will light up if you get it into bootloader? (tinking about this passage)
It doesnt even respond to charging (Unless I somehow get into bootloader mode after hours)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Have you checked the batteryconnectors? They may be stuck and not quite touching the battery and when you try to hard reset the phone flexes a bit and suddenly you´ve got a connection. Also try and clean the small metal contact surfaces on the battery. As little as a fingerprint may result in a bad connection with the battery.
At least you flashed it back to stock-if it's still under warrenty and the tricks above don't work-send it in for replacement =)
At least you flashed it back to stock-if it's still under warrenty and the tricks above don't work-send it in for replacement =)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Unless you used HardSPL and it still in there.
Good point!
i got the same problem today i flash my wing and i cant turn it on
Do a search for "unbrick"
HI
wonder if anyone can help me.
Ive had a few problems with my phone ever since i stared to change the roms on it. Something i have just put up with as it goes with the flow. Anyway just recently my phone is really being a pain no matter what rom i have installed . It just turns off or freezes and has also now started to play silly games like all of a sudden everything starts opening on the phone, and sometimes the screen dimms to black then goes off and wont turn on unless i leave the battery out for a good five mins. anybody got any ideas about this all help would be welcomed.
JUst updated the Radio rom to the lastest one i could find on here seems to have helped a bit.
Andy
Have you disassembled it or got it wet? One of the hardware buttons may be stuck. Are they all working?
No all the buttons work ok mate. this evening ive tried a different rom and it seems to be ok ill run it for a few days see if it improves or goes back to being a pain.
I was wondering if it could be the battery its about 12 months old now (due an upgrade an dthinking of the diamond), Phone normally gets fully charged every couple of days.
I tried to turn the phone on all i get a green and orange flashing led
can not boot into recovery
flashed cm5.0.2
everything was working fine
powered off the phone now i cant boot the phone
desperate help
?????????????????
Have you tried removing the battery, rebooting into recovery and reflashing?
Got to send it to htc for repair ugggjjhh
Are you new to rooting and flashing ROMs?
actually no, been flashin since the inception of jf1.4 roms
i flashed cm beta1 tru 5 up until stable no hiccups
was running cm stable 5.2 all night perfectly fine turned my phone off popped my sim card into the g1...
couple hrs later i try to turn the phone on jus blinked a green and orange led even with the battery out plugged into the wall(currently still blinkin)
cant even get into recovery to fastbooot anything....
jus my luck i guess **** happens
i babied the phone way tooo if anything
anyways srry for the longwinded post to answer a simple question
btw i thought brick=can power on but cant do anything recovery etc
but if the phone doesnt power on period whats that?
i guess they both bricks eitherway
icegad said:
btw i thought brick=can power on but cant do anything recovery etc
but if the phone doesnt power on period whats that?
i guess they both bricks eitherway
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
also a brick aka expensive paper weight
Same issue here, how much was the repair cost. This blows, I followed the instructions to the T and now that it's unlocked i have no warranty. Just curious how much this set you back.
Are you getting the flashing leds too?
Dont know the cost just yet i sent it out they havent recieved it yet
I nvr onced oc'd her or even thought about it sadface
Yes, I was booting up the latest CM and it got stuck at the blue X. I removed the battery and when i put it back in and tried to power it on it went from Green to Orange. It just keeps cycling through the flashes. Nothing helps... I think I might throw it in a lake and just pay the warranty fee if it is less than a repair...
I have the same problem here too.. except I do not really want to throw my phone into the lake haha..
Help?
On Saturday night i was txting playing beer pong having a good time.
When all of a sudden a black screen came out saying something about how it was goin to restart and reset or something like that and that all my personal info would be gone.
So i did it and once it restarted it just stayed stuck on the boot up screen.
Not thinking twice about it as i was having fun i just put it in my pocket thinking maybe its gonna take a lil longer but then i realized after awhile it was still on that same screen.
I took out the batter turned it on again same thing happened.
I gave up and decided i'd just deal with it the next morning.
Next morning comes its now like around 1-ish crazy party haha
Point is phone is dead i charge it for 30 min? i try turning on and nothing.
So then i boot up pushing both buttons figured i would do a hard reset.
Still nothing!
My friend decides to take me home so i take this time to charge my phone a lil more with his car charger and at first it was charging then out of no where it doesn't charge?
No light?
No boot up?
Nothing?
I take the battery out and back in then plug it into the charger and the light doesn't turn on but my phone just starts vibrating uncontrollably...
This freaks me out so i take the battery out and again same thing.
I took the battery out for a couple minutes then put it back in and it started charging again.
yay!
Oh btw the whole time this happened i was able to get into bootloader mode so i figured it cant be bricked and i can fix it just got to charge it.
I got home battery wasn't that charged but i plugd it in to my computer in bootloader mode hoping it would charge for a bit then i downloaded a new rom and i read it was a good idea to use task29.
Sounded like a great idea to fix my phone.
I got the Repack by ShaDrac and flashed it on my phone.
One strange thing i did notice was that usually when i flash it i see HTC then a progress bar.
This time it was just blank all black but with the progress bar i saw it go all the way to 99% and 100% on my computer it even said successful flash.
But after that it just stayed off?
No reboot ?
NOTHING!
wont charge
wont turn on
no bootloader mode
completely bricked.
im sure the battery is just dead since it wasn't that charged to begin with but i have no way of charging it!
I did a lot of googleing and found no answers i refuse to believe its bricked!
it cant be rite??
If anyone could please help me i would really appreciate it.
Ive only had my HD2 for about a week =[
Oh and it's a T-Mobile US version unlocked.
javydawg said:
On Saturday night i was txting playing beer pong having a good time.
When all of a sudden a black screen came out saying something about how it was goin to restart and reset or something like that and that all my personal info would be gone.
So i did it and once it restarted it just stayed stuck on the boot up screen.
Not thinking twice about it as i was having fun i just put it in my pocket thinking maybe its gonna take a lil longer but then i realized after awhile it was still on that same screen.
I took out the batter turned it on again same thing happened.
I gave up and decided i'd just deal with it the next morning.
Next morning comes its now like around 1-ish crazy party haha
Point is phone is dead i charge it for 30 min? i try turning on and nothing.
So then i boot up pushing both buttons figured i would do a hard reset.
Still nothing!
My friend decides to take me home so i take this time to charge my phone a lil more with his car charger and at first it was charging then out of no where it doesn't charge?
No light?
No boot up?
Nothing?
I take the battery out and back in then plug it into the charger and the light doesn't turn on but my phone just starts vibrating uncontrollably...
This freaks me out so i take the battery out and again same thing.
I took the battery out for a couple minutes then put it back in and it started charging again.
yay!
Oh btw the whole time this happened i was able to get into bootloader mode so i figured it cant be bricked and i can fix it just got to charge it.
I got home battery wasn't that charged but i plugd it in to my computer in bootloader mode hoping it would charge for a bit then i downloaded a new rom and i read it was a good idea to use task29.
Sounded like a great idea to fix my phone.
I got the Repack by ShaDrac and flashed it on my phone.
One strange thing i did notice was that usually when i flash it i see HTC then a progress bar.
This time it was just blank all black but with the progress bar i saw it go all the way to 99% and 100% on my computer it even said successful flash.
But after that it just stayed off?
No reboot ?
NOTHING!
wont charge
wont turn on
no bootloader mode
completely bricked.
im sure the battery is just dead since it wasn't that charged to begin with but i have no way of charging it!
I did a lot of googleing and found no answers i refuse to believe its bricked!
it cant be rite??
If anyone could please help me i would really appreciate it.
Ive only had my HD2 for about a week =[
Oh and it's a T-Mobile US version unlocked.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you have only had it for a week then the best thing is to just take it back to wherever you bought it and ask for a direct replacement as it should still be within the time frame for that.
Sounds like you have done everything possible to bring it back, taking the battery out, hard reset. If it wont turn on, wont go into the bootloader and you cant get an activesync connection then theres not really much more you can do.
Mark.
yea i agree, dont waste time fiddling and trying to bring it back, get round the shop today.
Unfortunately thats not an option as i got it from someone else and then unlocked it since im on at&t. At most i would have to call htc and hope the manufactureres warranty can do something but i highly doubt it.
cant believe this is the end of my HD2
javydawg said:
Unfortunately thats not an option as i got it from someone else and then unlocked it since im on at&t. At most i would have to call htc and hope the manufactureres warranty can do something but i highly doubt it.
cant believe this is the end of my HD2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You might try taking the battery out and leaving it out for at least 24 hours. Sometimes that will reset a few things and bring the screen back on but im not guarenteeing anything. Yo uhave nothing to lose at this stage though. You could also try connecting it to your pc via activesync and see if it connects. Even if the screen isnt coming on you might still get a connection which you could use to flash a new rom.
Even getting a replacement battery off ebay very cheaply might sort it out as I have heard of batterys going funny before.
Just a few sugestions.
Mark.
all the phones should (I think) be manufacturer warrantied for the first year, so I bet htc will fix it, though you might have to pay shipping.
dig out your regions htc repair center and get in touch. so long as they can't see the hspl it should be free.(
I dont have HD2 (<--nexus one), but one thing i have noticed with all HTC phones that I've had something similar happen is when i have tired to reboot the phone by turning it off and then trying to turn back on it wont. I would take the battery out and still it will not. I would do the same with the sd card and same but what fixes it is taking the SIM out press the power button few times with no battery and then putting everything back on and it turns on. It happens in a while. Maybe not the same problem but i guess its worth a try if you haven't yet. One more thing I would try is to take the battery out, the sd card and the SIM card out and then plug your phone into the charger and wait a few mins to see if the led or screen would come on. Try the same thing by plugging it to your computer. If computer does make sound and it does detect your phone then it might just a screen related issue which might be the case since you already flash it with a different rom and nothing came on. I know you probably have tried this but you didnt say in your post but have you tried this?
1. With the device turned off, press and hold the VOLUME UP and VOLUME DOWN buttons, then briefly press the POWER button.
2. Continue pressing the VOLUME UP and VOLUME DOWN buttons until you see this message on the screen:
“This operation will delete all your personal data, and reset all settings to the manufacturer default settings. Press VolUp to restore manufacturer defaults, or press other keys to cancel.”
3. Release the VOLUME UP and VOLUME DOWN buttons.
4. Press the VOLUME UP button to perform the hard reset, or press any other button to cancel the reset.
Good luck
I agree with mskip about the 24H thing if you let the internal/backup battery die it could solve a possible brick then by reflashing
also what deanesn said about the HD phones its also true (same prob with G1 and excalibur) sometimes out off nowhere it wont turn on or its just going to give you a black screen... wierd huh!?
important things I wanna know is
what rom where you using? what radio version? what were the last app or apps you installed on your HD2?
anyways from what I've read&done ever since I joined XDA this is the best thing to do in a situation like yours
This is when you get a black screen
1 if its stuck on the boot screen try to do another hard reset
2. if you cant or nothing happeneds try to see if you can acces the bootloader screen
3. if you cant, remove the batterie for like 24H or maybe more so the internal batterie dries out (if you do that make sure that you try to estimate around 50% to 70% before removing the actual batterie for reflashing)
4. then insert the batterie and try to acces the bootloader or hard reset by pressing the key combanations dont try to see if by a miracle chance it would fix the problem (trust me at this point it wont)
5. if it actually DOES bootup find and download THE STOCK ROM FROM TMOBILE
6. HARD reset if nothing then do it agn but before it has a chance to, try to boot up
7. quickly acces the bootloader wipe your phone (task 29 for hd2) and flash the STOCK ROM (not a custom rom. I read somewhere that its always better to go with an official tmo rom)
thats it Ive try many things on my ALMOST bricked situations this are the things Ive done MAYBE IT WONT WORK FOR YOU, one time I thought my excalibur was dead until I left my phone without a batterie for like a weak then later out of nowhere it boots up only on the first tmobile splash screen and I was able to fix it
LOL even tho those steps prob dont apply to you what you can do is call HTC and tell them you have a black screen on your htc DONT TRY AND ACT all smart by telling them you have a brick and you had a custom rom and all of that cause that prob voids your warranty with HTC, from what I've read this one guy told them that his girlfriend was texting and then the phone froze and the she remove the batterie and the screen went black. And he got a replacement
also another one that I read is a guy telling them he was doing an OFFICIAL ROM UPDATE and the phone never turned back on.
hope it helps
Mark:
Thanks, and this is actually my plan lol I used to flash my old motorola rizr all the time even had to testpoint it to bring it back from a complete BRICK! but the one thing i couldnt fix was water damage haha but after a week of having the battery out some how... miraculously it came back
Deanesn:
How is the nexus one? I was gonna get a nexus one or a hd2 but the screen size ended up being the tie breaker although ever since my g1, android has had my heart haha
Ive always hated windows mobile but the hd2 was perfect!
I also agree with what u said, i have seen those symptons before.
But yea thanks on the advice.. sadly... already tried it and nothing.. =/
Tuppaacc:
Thnx thats exactly what im trying to do.
My only problem is my battery is dead and i need to charge it!
Oh i just noticed i forgot to answer ur questions Tuppaacc.
tuppaacc said:
important things I wanna know is
what rom where you using? what radio version? what were the last app or apps you installed on your HD2?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I was using Duttys_Leo_Sense_2.5_5.2.21898.5.0.91_2.10_Radio_2.08.50.08.2_HG_V1.7_WWE Rom.
Im not really sure what radio i was using but if i had to guess i would say 2.10 since i dont remember flashing anything else and i heard the best radio was the one the HD2 already came with.
As for the last app installed ummm.... iGo8? not sure either but in total all the apps installed where
My Phone
Marketplace
Facebook
Myspace
iGo8
Aim
Flashlight
Glympse
umm cant think of any other ones. I know i didnt install much just had flashed the rom the night before.
again sorry for skipping your question.
try
try taking sd card out and boot it work for me
Here is what you have to do after I made a mistake and "killed" my US version HD2, but it's back to service.
First of all, you have to be sure the battery has at least 50% left. If the unit is able to charge the battery, leave it charged for a couple of hours.
Second, unplug all the cables from the unit, take the battery and wait for a few seconds, then put the battery back in. Press and hold volume down button and press red (end/power) button once. If everything goes well, you should see a tri-color screen.
Third, plug in the phone and run ROM update again.
WARNING: flashing will erase your personal data.
javydawg said:
Oh i just noticed i forgot to answer ur questions Tuppaacc.
I was using Duttys_Leo_Sense_2.5_5.2.21898.5.0.91_2.10_Radio_2.08.50.08.2_HG_V1.7_WWE Rom.
Im not really sure what radio i was using but if i had to guess i would say 2.10 since i dont remember flashing anything else and i heard the best radio was the one the HD2 already came with.
As for the last app installed ummm.... iGo8? not sure either but in total all the apps installed where
My Phone
Marketplace
Facebook
Myspace
iGo8
Aim
Flashlight
Glympse
umm cant think of any other ones. I know i didnt install much just had flashed the rom the night before.
again sorry for skipping your question.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
the thing is the phone itself wont charge the battery.
I plug it into the wall and no lights turn on to indicate its charging.
javydawg said:
the thing is the phone itself wont charge the battery.
I plug it into the wall and no lights turn on to indicate its charging.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You need to get a desktop charger so you can plug the battery in and make sure its fully charged. I dont think they are available from shops but you can buy them online (ebay) for around a fiver.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Desktop-Battery...&otn=8&po=LVI&ps=63&clkid=9087015918333818927
That one says for the T8585 but im pretty sure they both use exactly the same battery. You might want to check on that though.
Mark.
My goodness, that OP is a real doozie.
That's pretty wild man, although I don't have much input, other than the obvious suggestions that have already been provided for you... I will say that was a worthy read.
Yea thats pretty much my only option I will be buying that desktop charger real sooon and ill get back to the forum with my results.
Cant believe they are so cheap haha
Ive even seen one that comes with an extra OEM battery and charger for under 15 dollars!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230460046498
Thnx for all the help and support. =]
U have a Bricked HD2 my friend
i bought the wall charger and it charged the battery but it still wouldnt turn on or go into bootloader mode or do anything!!
=[
..
any luck with un-bricking your HD2?
Seems like OP bought a damaged phone in the first place or something, or something "happened" on the night of the party. Beer got on it, perhaps?
I originally posted this over on the MotorolaDefy.com forums, but it seems to be pretty dead, so I'm going to quote over my post and then update it with what I have tried since.
Generally, I don't like to post on forums asking for assistance, I know how many repeat problems you guys probably have to read, but I don't know what else to do at this point. I've had my Defy running Cyanogen Mod for months, and earlier today I noticed the Wifi wasn't connecting properly, so I rebooted it. Lo and behold, it became stuck at the Cyanogen Mod screen, it might have something to do with me installing BusyBox earlier in the day. In anycase, I followed this guide: (link removed, since this is my first post - not really important since I figured out the McGyver trick) to attempt to fix the problem. Now the phone won't boot at all, I can't even get to the boot loader screen. RSD Lite still recognizes the phone when it is plugged in, and the white light still comes on when it is charging. I'm scared ****less to take any further actions without input from somebody with more experience. I have to head out to work now, but I wanted to post this before I left. If anybody has a solution to my problem (and I'd be grateful), then I'll attempt it in a few hours. All I'm trying to do is reset it to factory default so that I may reload Cyanogen Mod onto it. The phone worked beautifully up until this point. I am on Telus and I live in Canada, if that is at all relevant. Thanks!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So, since then, I've gotten my screen working again, I had to use the McGyver trick (gypsy-rigged usb cable to the contacts of the battery) to jump start the bootloader, and I managed to flash in the Froyo 2.2, 3.4.2-179 sbf. It ran! Thank god in heaven! But... it got stuck at the T-Mobile logo consistently. Next, I tried flashing in Froyo 2.2, 3.4.2-177 sbf. Again, it miraculously boots but it hangs at the pulsing Motorola logo.
That brings me to where I am currently, which is; I have absolutely no idea what to do next. All I want is to get my Defy up and running with a stable version of Cyanogen Mod again. It ran flawlessly before and I loved my phone, best phone I've ever had. I'm stressing out pretty hard, and I've tried all I can find on the internet. Please, XDA, help me!
Edit: I doubt this is relevant, but more information can't hurt, so I'll add that my Defy is one of the newer ones with the red-lense.
Have you remembered to wipe data and cache (factory reset) in stock recovery?^^
If you still have that data from when you ran cm7, and you're trying to boot stock, it could prevent you from booting! Happened to me once and i just couldn't see what the problem was! Really annoying.
That sounds like it could be the issue, you're supposed to be able to do that by holding volume down while powering it up, correct? Because that doesn't seem to do anything for me.
Not working? Strange. Hold volume down before pressing power button and keep it pressed untill you se a warning triangle. Then hit both volume keys to enter the recovery. Still not working?
Sorry, I should have been more specific, I can get to the little Android guy and exclamation mark, but when I touch the bottom right corner, no menu comes up. I've never actually had to access the stock recovery before, Cyanogen made it so simple. Am I supposed to be doing something other than tapping the screen?
Update: Google is my friend. I found a suggestion that I hit the up and down volume buttons at the same time, and the menu appeared! I wiped the cache and all the use data (important stuff is on a memory card anyway, I'll just have to get my contacts back). I did get an error, reading: "E:Can't mount CACHE:recovery/log". I rebooted the system regardless and IT BOOTED!
Thanks for pointing me down the right path, I owe you and this forum a great debt!
I'm now going to charge this bad boy back to full before I attempt to reload Cyanogen. (Since having wires hang out the back is starting to get old.)
I managed to short out something doing the McGyver trick, because I'm getting the question mark battery problem. Hopefully it's an issue with the battery and not the phone. I'm incredibly disappointed, the phone is fairly new and I loved it, and don't have the money to drop replacing it since there are more urgent things to attend to. I guess all I can do is hope for the best.
As of now, it won't even boot. I'm going to try the battery in a friends phone and his in mine to try to identify the problem.
Lunk23 said:
I'm going to try the battery in a friends phone and his in mine to try to identify the problem.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I always recommend THIS solution over the McGyver method. Defy is farely often owned phone, so guys... first of all, don't let the battery drain completely; second - if this happens, don't rush into jump starting it. Try all other options first, ask somebody to recharge your battery and don't do McGyver, unless you've run out of other options.
Now try connecting your phone to the wall charger and don't try to start it for at least an hour. I've had plenty of cases when brand new Defy, Defy+ or Atrix, that have never been rooted, leave alone jump started, show the battery with "?" in it when battery drains completely and takes some thirty minutes or so of charging until the phone is able to start again.
Good luck, my friend!
I had made this. .... just in case it can help you
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1551472