Database Users

Sad day. Charmer is dead. Help!

So okay I did a soft-rest on my Charmer today and it didn't wake up again.
No LEDs, nothing on the screen. I don't think the battery was drained and it hasn't been near any water, been dropped or anything like that. If I plug it in it doesn't show it's charging. I've left it plugged in for hours, still nothing. No bootloader, no nothing.
I have realized the hard way how much I rely on it. I now have no music, no satnav, no phone, no diary.
If anyone knows how to revive it, please let me know.
Otherwise I'm off to get another one - maybe a Prophet this time!

littld said:
So okay I did a soft-rest on my Charmer today and it didn't wake up again.
No LEDs, nothing on the screen. I don't think the battery was drained and it hasn't been near any water, been dropped or anything like that. If I plug it in it doesn't show it's charging. I've left it plugged in for hours, still nothing. No bootloader, no nothing.
I have realized the hard way how much I rely on it. I now have no music, no satnav, no phone, no diary.
If anyone knows how to revive it, please let me know.
Otherwise I'm off to get another one - maybe a Prophet this time!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi Pls buy the prophet which is available and can be serviced in your region.
I have already had a similar problem as of your in my prophet..
The phone just wont power on from standby..I resetted using stylus and from than (almost 3mths now) the prophet has not powered ON at all.
I have already used the wire trick and removing the batt for days and shoring the batt but no help....
VERDICT:buy prophet only which has warranty.

Wire trick?
What on earth is the wire trick?
I'd like to try it - see if I can get the thing to come back to life.
Anyway, now on a prophet - hopefully it wont happen again.
Thanks for replying.

I have a charmer that is dead too.
And It's the second time.
The first time I sent it to the warranty and they fixed it and sent it back.. full operational.
So it has to have some "trick" to revive it.
I still have 1 year os warranty so i'll send it again. But I really would like to know If is there any information to dismantle it or something like to unlock some mobiles you have to wire it in a special way to surpass some detection chip or something.

MDA Compact 2 dead, please help me moderator...
Hi, I have serious problem, and don´t know what to do. I flashed my MDA with WM6. It worked for 3 days. When I switched it off, and later on, I could only see booting itself, and then frozen picture of T-Mobile. I read about hard reset, which I did and after all process finished with "Format is failed". What can I do? Is there anything I can do? Thx

I think I bricked it...

Before I start I know how touchy people are about searching forums and the wiki etc... but I already have!
Ok so, I tried to flash a new ROM to my phone last night, I have done it before without problems however this time I was having trouble getting the phone to connect to my laptop (I run Windows 7). Both USPL and HSPL wouldn't work (in fact active sync wouldn't even recognise it).
So I went to bed, woke up and... My phone didn't work at all
I spent ages trying to get it too work, I tried putting it into bootloader, but nothing happened, I tried getting it to Hard reset, but nothing happened. (By nothing happens i mean the screen doesn't turn on).
The only sign of life i get from it is the little vibration that usually occurs after the 'smart mobility' screen appears. Except this is delayed by about 10 seconds from after pressing the Power button.
The delay makes me think that there is something else wrong with the phone other then the screen...
Please help!!
Oh and I am sorry for the essay... I only just realised how long and rambling it is haaa.
UPDATE: right it just connected to activesync but still nothing on the screen, is there any way of checking for definite that the screen is broke before I fork out for a new one? There is astill the massive delay between turning the phone on and getting the little vibration...

Try removing battery overnight, then re-inserting. Then try to get to bootloader or hard reset

how exactly did you manage to brick it? did you flash the rom in question with uspl, or do u generally have hard spl installed? i dont know but it looks like the bootloader is somehow broken ...

Ok I will try doing that, thank you for helping
And no, I didnt get as far as flashing the ROM because active sync never recognised the phone in Bootlaoder. I usually use USPL.

Did you fix it? and if so how?

I have very similar issues with my HD right now. Screen went black, bought a new LCD and still the same problem. Oddly enough the only way I can get the screen to come on is to take the battery out and set both battery and phone body in my window sill for half an hour or so. It is cold here right now and they are both pretty cool to the touch when I take them out. Put it back together and tada! Screen comes on. I dunno what the deal is also, don't know if its the battery or phone being cold that makes it work again??? I am going to try and figure it out.. Try it on yours it may help

Is My HD2 Really Bricked?

On Saturday night i was txting playing beer pong having a good time.
When all of a sudden a black screen came out saying something about how it was goin to restart and reset or something like that and that all my personal info would be gone.
So i did it and once it restarted it just stayed stuck on the boot up screen.
Not thinking twice about it as i was having fun i just put it in my pocket thinking maybe its gonna take a lil longer but then i realized after awhile it was still on that same screen.
I took out the batter turned it on again same thing happened.
I gave up and decided i'd just deal with it the next morning.
Next morning comes its now like around 1-ish crazy party haha
Point is phone is dead i charge it for 30 min? i try turning on and nothing.
So then i boot up pushing both buttons figured i would do a hard reset.
Still nothing!
My friend decides to take me home so i take this time to charge my phone a lil more with his car charger and at first it was charging then out of no where it doesn't charge?
No light?
No boot up?
Nothing?
I take the battery out and back in then plug it into the charger and the light doesn't turn on but my phone just starts vibrating uncontrollably...
This freaks me out so i take the battery out and again same thing.
I took the battery out for a couple minutes then put it back in and it started charging again.
yay!
Oh btw the whole time this happened i was able to get into bootloader mode so i figured it cant be bricked and i can fix it just got to charge it.
I got home battery wasn't that charged but i plugd it in to my computer in bootloader mode hoping it would charge for a bit then i downloaded a new rom and i read it was a good idea to use task29.
Sounded like a great idea to fix my phone.
I got the Repack by ShaDrac and flashed it on my phone.
One strange thing i did notice was that usually when i flash it i see HTC then a progress bar.
This time it was just blank all black but with the progress bar i saw it go all the way to 99% and 100% on my computer it even said successful flash.
But after that it just stayed off?
No reboot ?
NOTHING!
wont charge
wont turn on
no bootloader mode
completely bricked.
im sure the battery is just dead since it wasn't that charged to begin with but i have no way of charging it!
I did a lot of googleing and found no answers i refuse to believe its bricked!
it cant be rite??
If anyone could please help me i would really appreciate it.
Ive only had my HD2 for about a week =[
Oh and it's a T-Mobile US version unlocked.

javydawg said:
On Saturday night i was txting playing beer pong having a good time.
When all of a sudden a black screen came out saying something about how it was goin to restart and reset or something like that and that all my personal info would be gone.
So i did it and once it restarted it just stayed stuck on the boot up screen.
Not thinking twice about it as i was having fun i just put it in my pocket thinking maybe its gonna take a lil longer but then i realized after awhile it was still on that same screen.
I took out the batter turned it on again same thing happened.
I gave up and decided i'd just deal with it the next morning.
Next morning comes its now like around 1-ish crazy party haha
Point is phone is dead i charge it for 30 min? i try turning on and nothing.
So then i boot up pushing both buttons figured i would do a hard reset.
Still nothing!
My friend decides to take me home so i take this time to charge my phone a lil more with his car charger and at first it was charging then out of no where it doesn't charge?
No light?
No boot up?
Nothing?
I take the battery out and back in then plug it into the charger and the light doesn't turn on but my phone just starts vibrating uncontrollably...
This freaks me out so i take the battery out and again same thing.
I took the battery out for a couple minutes then put it back in and it started charging again.
yay!
Oh btw the whole time this happened i was able to get into bootloader mode so i figured it cant be bricked and i can fix it just got to charge it.
I got home battery wasn't that charged but i plugd it in to my computer in bootloader mode hoping it would charge for a bit then i downloaded a new rom and i read it was a good idea to use task29.
Sounded like a great idea to fix my phone.
I got the Repack by ShaDrac and flashed it on my phone.
One strange thing i did notice was that usually when i flash it i see HTC then a progress bar.
This time it was just blank all black but with the progress bar i saw it go all the way to 99% and 100% on my computer it even said successful flash.
But after that it just stayed off?
No reboot ?
NOTHING!
wont charge
wont turn on
no bootloader mode
completely bricked.
im sure the battery is just dead since it wasn't that charged to begin with but i have no way of charging it!
I did a lot of googleing and found no answers i refuse to believe its bricked!
it cant be rite??
If anyone could please help me i would really appreciate it.
Ive only had my HD2 for about a week =[
Oh and it's a T-Mobile US version unlocked.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you have only had it for a week then the best thing is to just take it back to wherever you bought it and ask for a direct replacement as it should still be within the time frame for that.
Sounds like you have done everything possible to bring it back, taking the battery out, hard reset. If it wont turn on, wont go into the bootloader and you cant get an activesync connection then theres not really much more you can do.
Mark.

yea i agree, dont waste time fiddling and trying to bring it back, get round the shop today.

Unfortunately thats not an option as i got it from someone else and then unlocked it since im on at&t. At most i would have to call htc and hope the manufactureres warranty can do something but i highly doubt it.
cant believe this is the end of my HD2

javydawg said:
Unfortunately thats not an option as i got it from someone else and then unlocked it since im on at&t. At most i would have to call htc and hope the manufactureres warranty can do something but i highly doubt it.
cant believe this is the end of my HD2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You might try taking the battery out and leaving it out for at least 24 hours. Sometimes that will reset a few things and bring the screen back on but im not guarenteeing anything. Yo uhave nothing to lose at this stage though. You could also try connecting it to your pc via activesync and see if it connects. Even if the screen isnt coming on you might still get a connection which you could use to flash a new rom.
Even getting a replacement battery off ebay very cheaply might sort it out as I have heard of batterys going funny before.
Just a few sugestions.
Mark.

all the phones should (I think) be manufacturer warrantied for the first year, so I bet htc will fix it, though you might have to pay shipping.
dig out your regions htc repair center and get in touch. so long as they can't see the hspl it should be free.(

I dont have HD2 (<--nexus one), but one thing i have noticed with all HTC phones that I've had something similar happen is when i have tired to reboot the phone by turning it off and then trying to turn back on it wont. I would take the battery out and still it will not. I would do the same with the sd card and same but what fixes it is taking the SIM out press the power button few times with no battery and then putting everything back on and it turns on. It happens in a while. Maybe not the same problem but i guess its worth a try if you haven't yet. One more thing I would try is to take the battery out, the sd card and the SIM card out and then plug your phone into the charger and wait a few mins to see if the led or screen would come on. Try the same thing by plugging it to your computer. If computer does make sound and it does detect your phone then it might just a screen related issue which might be the case since you already flash it with a different rom and nothing came on. I know you probably have tried this but you didnt say in your post but have you tried this?
1. With the device turned off, press and hold the VOLUME UP and VOLUME DOWN buttons, then briefly press the POWER button.
2. Continue pressing the VOLUME UP and VOLUME DOWN buttons until you see this message on the screen:
“This operation will delete all your personal data, and reset all settings to the manufacturer default settings. Press VolUp to restore manufacturer defaults, or press other keys to cancel.”
3. Release the VOLUME UP and VOLUME DOWN buttons.
4. Press the VOLUME UP button to perform the hard reset, or press any other button to cancel the reset.
Good luck

I agree with mskip about the 24H thing if you let the internal/backup battery die it could solve a possible brick then by reflashing
also what deanesn said about the HD phones its also true (same prob with G1 and excalibur) sometimes out off nowhere it wont turn on or its just going to give you a black screen... wierd huh!?
important things I wanna know is
what rom where you using? what radio version? what were the last app or apps you installed on your HD2?
anyways from what I've read&done ever since I joined XDA this is the best thing to do in a situation like yours
This is when you get a black screen
1 if its stuck on the boot screen try to do another hard reset
2. if you cant or nothing happeneds try to see if you can acces the bootloader screen
3. if you cant, remove the batterie for like 24H or maybe more so the internal batterie dries out (if you do that make sure that you try to estimate around 50% to 70% before removing the actual batterie for reflashing)
4. then insert the batterie and try to acces the bootloader or hard reset by pressing the key combanations dont try to see if by a miracle chance it would fix the problem (trust me at this point it wont)
5. if it actually DOES bootup find and download THE STOCK ROM FROM TMOBILE
6. HARD reset if nothing then do it agn but before it has a chance to, try to boot up
7. quickly acces the bootloader wipe your phone (task 29 for hd2) and flash the STOCK ROM (not a custom rom. I read somewhere that its always better to go with an official tmo rom)
thats it Ive try many things on my ALMOST bricked situations this are the things Ive done MAYBE IT WONT WORK FOR YOU, one time I thought my excalibur was dead until I left my phone without a batterie for like a weak then later out of nowhere it boots up only on the first tmobile splash screen and I was able to fix it
LOL even tho those steps prob dont apply to you what you can do is call HTC and tell them you have a black screen on your htc DONT TRY AND ACT all smart by telling them you have a brick and you had a custom rom and all of that cause that prob voids your warranty with HTC, from what I've read this one guy told them that his girlfriend was texting and then the phone froze and the she remove the batterie and the screen went black. And he got a replacement
also another one that I read is a guy telling them he was doing an OFFICIAL ROM UPDATE and the phone never turned back on.
hope it helps

Mark:
Thanks, and this is actually my plan lol I used to flash my old motorola rizr all the time even had to testpoint it to bring it back from a complete BRICK! but the one thing i couldnt fix was water damage haha but after a week of having the battery out some how... miraculously it came back
Deanesn:
How is the nexus one? I was gonna get a nexus one or a hd2 but the screen size ended up being the tie breaker although ever since my g1, android has had my heart haha
Ive always hated windows mobile but the hd2 was perfect!
I also agree with what u said, i have seen those symptons before.
But yea thanks on the advice.. sadly... already tried it and nothing.. =/
Tuppaacc:
Thnx thats exactly what im trying to do.
My only problem is my battery is dead and i need to charge it!

Oh i just noticed i forgot to answer ur questions Tuppaacc.
tuppaacc said:
important things I wanna know is
what rom where you using? what radio version? what were the last app or apps you installed on your HD2?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I was using Duttys_Leo_Sense_2.5_5.2.21898.5.0.91_2.10_Radio_2.08.50.08.2_HG_V1.7_WWE Rom.
Im not really sure what radio i was using but if i had to guess i would say 2.10 since i dont remember flashing anything else and i heard the best radio was the one the HD2 already came with.
As for the last app installed ummm.... iGo8? not sure either but in total all the apps installed where
My Phone
Marketplace
Facebook
Myspace
iGo8
Aim
Flashlight
Glympse
umm cant think of any other ones. I know i didnt install much just had flashed the rom the night before.
again sorry for skipping your question.

try
try taking sd card out and boot it work for me

Here is what you have to do after I made a mistake and "killed" my US version HD2, but it's back to service.
First of all, you have to be sure the battery has at least 50% left. If the unit is able to charge the battery, leave it charged for a couple of hours.
Second, unplug all the cables from the unit, take the battery and wait for a few seconds, then put the battery back in. Press and hold volume down button and press red (end/power) button once. If everything goes well, you should see a tri-color screen.
Third, plug in the phone and run ROM update again.
WARNING: flashing will erase your personal data.
javydawg said:
Oh i just noticed i forgot to answer ur questions Tuppaacc.
I was using Duttys_Leo_Sense_2.5_5.2.21898.5.0.91_2.10_Radio_2.08.50.08.2_HG_V1.7_WWE Rom.
Im not really sure what radio i was using but if i had to guess i would say 2.10 since i dont remember flashing anything else and i heard the best radio was the one the HD2 already came with.
As for the last app installed ummm.... iGo8? not sure either but in total all the apps installed where
My Phone
Marketplace
Facebook
Myspace
iGo8
Aim
Flashlight
Glympse
umm cant think of any other ones. I know i didnt install much just had flashed the rom the night before.
again sorry for skipping your question.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

the thing is the phone itself wont charge the battery.
I plug it into the wall and no lights turn on to indicate its charging.

javydawg said:
the thing is the phone itself wont charge the battery.
I plug it into the wall and no lights turn on to indicate its charging.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You need to get a desktop charger so you can plug the battery in and make sure its fully charged. I dont think they are available from shops but you can buy them online (ebay) for around a fiver.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Desktop-Battery...&otn=8&po=LVI&ps=63&clkid=9087015918333818927
That one says for the T8585 but im pretty sure they both use exactly the same battery. You might want to check on that though.
Mark.

My goodness, that OP is a real doozie.
That's pretty wild man, although I don't have much input, other than the obvious suggestions that have already been provided for you... I will say that was a worthy read.

Yea thats pretty much my only option I will be buying that desktop charger real sooon and ill get back to the forum with my results.
Cant believe they are so cheap haha
Ive even seen one that comes with an extra OEM battery and charger for under 15 dollars!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230460046498
Thnx for all the help and support. =]

U have a Bricked HD2 my friend

i bought the wall charger and it charged the battery but it still wouldnt turn on or go into bootloader mode or do anything!!
=[
..

any luck with un-bricking your HD2?

Seems like OP bought a damaged phone in the first place or something, or something "happened" on the night of the party. Beer got on it, perhaps?

Touchscreen not responding. reverting back to stock Rom and Radio and spl

hey,
just half an hour ago, the touchscreen on hd2 stopped responding.
i've tried to reset the phone(soft reset). does not work.
probably gonna try hard reset now
if it doesn't help i'll try to update back to stock rom, and remove hslp.
stay tuned

Did you install some touchscreen related software or driver? Have you tried removing the battery, giving it a couple of seconds and then powering it back on?
flunik said:
hey,
just half an hour ago, the touchscreen on hd2 stopped responding.
i've tried to reset the phone(soft reset). does not work.
probably gonna try hard reset now
if it doesn't help i'll try to update back to stock rom, and remove hslp.
stay tuned
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

nah, installed nothing...
i was going home, typing an sms, and everything was fine.
at home i wanted to unlock the device, but it didn't respond, so i thought that it was hanging.
restarted the device. no use.
then i did a hard reset. didnt help
i flashed stock rom. didnt help
i was about to flash original SPL and try to get the refund, when i realized screen started working.
in a few seconds i realized, that only upper part of screen is working.
its pretty rainy here. can this be the humidity problem ?

Ouch, please don't tell me you let water seep into the corners of the phone? Compared to the old Touch HD, the edge of the bezel here does not seem to be as properly sealed and as such could lead to water seeping in!
Some dude in the EVO forums destroyed his touch screen while putting on a Zagg alone I think, if I recall correct.
Cheers.
flunik said:
nah, installed nothing...
i was going home, typing an sms, and everything was fine.
at home i wanted to unlock the device, but it didn't respond, so i thought that it was hanging.
restarted the device. no use.
then i did a hard reset. didnt help
i flashed stock rom. didnt help
i was about to flash original SPL and try to get the refund, when i realized screen started working.
in a few seconds i realized, that only upper part of screen is working.
its pretty rainy here. can this be the humidity problem ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

My Le pro 3 (x720) randomly freezes and boots into BLUE LED? Is it now a trash?

Hello everyone.
I have a strange problem. My leeco le pro 3 x720 randomly freezes, turn itself off and goes to black screen with BLUE LED on.. Then i can press the power button for about 10 seconds and it boots into the system again. But then the other problem is, the phone doesnt search any wifi network because the wifi trigger cannot be activated, it always forces OFF. I sometimes boot a few times and then the wifi comes back but again randomly it boots into BLUE led again.. I have tried a few OREO roms but the problem persists.
What do you think? Is it a software or hardwore problem? Or is it bricked or will be dead soon totally?
Please help me. What can i do for this?

Did you tried a clean flash with formating all partitions? Also you can try a driffrent gaaps package. open gapps nano or pico is recomended.

Same Issue!
SUMMERBREEZE said:
Hello everyone.
I have a strange problem. My leeco le pro 3 x720 randomly freezes, turn itself off and goes to black screen with BLUE LED on.. Then i can press the power button for about 10 seconds and it boots into the system again. But then the other problem is, the phone doesnt search any wifi network because the wifi trigger cannot be activated, it always forces OFF. I sometimes boot a few times and then the wifi comes back but again randomly it boots into BLUE led again.. I have tried a few OREO roms but the problem persists.
What do you think? Is it a software or hardwore problem? Or is it bricked or will be dead soon totally?
Please help me. What can i do for this?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am having the exact same issue.
My x727 was on charge and it rebooted all of a sudden and afterwards stuck on blue LED. I long pressed the power button to restart. After restating it freeze and rebooted into blue LED again. I was able to get into fastboot mode but my phone was not recognized by the computer. I gave up then!
The phone was working perfectly on stock Chinese ROM, with unlocked bootloader and TWRP installled.
ANY SOOLUTIONS?

hamrique said:
I am having the exact same issue.
My x727 was on charge and it rebooted all of a sudden and afterwards stuck on blue LED. I long pressed the power button to restart. After restating it freeze and rebooted into blue LED again. I was able to get into fastboot mode but my phone was not recognized by the computer. I gave up then!
The phone was working perfectly on stock Chinese ROM, with unlocked bootloader and TWRP installled.
ANY SOOLUTIONS?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry guys, the blue light means battery death.
Honestly its not that big a deal, at least its not a dead motherboard. Just order another battery, and you might as well order a lcd screen too. Because you will break the lcd when you attempt to remove it.
To avoid breaking LCD use a heat gun. FYI, The battery will cost about $7 and the LCD is about $14
@SUMMERBREEZE

tsongming said:
Sorry guys, the blue light means battery death.
Honestly its not that big a deal, at least its not a dead motherboard. Just order another battery, and you might as well order a lcd screen too. Because you will break the lcd when you attempt to remove it.
To avoid breaking LCD use a heat gun. FYI, The battery will cost about $7 and the LCD is about $14
@SUMMERBREEZE
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
@tsongming i really dont know how to say but you must be a godgiven present for this forum! You are reaching almost to all topics and replying all the questions! Thank you for this!
Now i tell you and all what happened. I was on Bootleggers august build, wifi trigger still couldnt be activated, means no wifi no bluetoth but the phone stopped going to blue led/black screen. I used like that 1 day cos i needed the phone, i was on data internet not to lose my communication with people. I rebooted the phone a lot of times but the wifi still not came back! So i decided to downgrade to Nougat based rom Paranoid 7.3.5 unoficial by voron00 and from the beggining till now everything works without any problem... ! But this does not mean it wont repeat again!
Since my phone had this problem, i had been checking online other forums, especially this ''wifi cannot be activated'' problem, on most forums (samsung, sony xperia etc.) people commented that it might be a battery issue, it needs to be unplugged and replugged or buying a new battery solved their issues. So thats why i was checking on aliexpress some batteries and i saw your comment here! so am sure it %100 battery issue!
Right now i wont risk and will purchase a battery from china and go to phone shop and ask from my friend to replace it.
But i am not sure which battery would suit my phone %100 and wont repeat the same issue at least in the soon future.. Any help?

SUMMERBREEZE said:
@tsongming i really dont know how to say but you must be a godgiven present for this forum! You are reaching almost to all topics and replying all the questions! Thank you for this!
Now i tell you and all what happened. I was on Bootleggers august build, wifi trigger still couldnt be activated, means no wifi no bluetoth but the phone stopped going to blue led/black screen. I used like that 1 day cos i needed the phone, i was on data internet not to lose my communication with people. I rebooted the phone a lot of times but the wifi still not came back! So i decided to downgrade to Nougat based rom Paranoid 7.3.5 unoficial by voron00 and from the beggining till now everything works without any problem... ! But this does not mean it wont repeat again!
Since my phone had this problem, i had been checking online other forums, especially this ''wifi cannot be activated'' problem, on most forums (samsung, sony xperia etc.) people commented that it might be a battery issue, it needs to be unplugged and replugged or buying a new battery solved their issues. So thats why i was checking on aliexpress some batteries and i saw your comment here! so am sure it %100 battery issue!
Right now i wont risk and will purchase a battery from china and go to phone shop and ask from my friend to replace it.
But i am not sure which battery would suit my phone %100 and wont repeat the same issue at least in the soon future.. Any help?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hey, Did changing the battery fix the issue? Im having the same problem with my phone as well

Hello guys, i have the same problem, i changed my battery and still the same issue. Blue Led

dgarcia said:
Hello guys, i have the same problem, i changed my battery and still the same issue. Blue Led
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Old post, by I have same issue as well. I've replaced my battery but still getting blue led. Any ideas?

You are not alone. https://forum.xda-developers.com/t/...in-recovery-and-twrp-is-not-included.4498815/
I think we have one nature of the origin of the problem