Related
The new Dell Axim X51v has 256MB RAM on WM5.0. Why the hell didn't the 'Worlds' Most Powerful fu..ing phone' get this? :evil:
HTC..you are are truly wicked!!! :evil:
You build the Dell Axim don't you? :? Microsoft..you test your software don't you? Stupid question.. you obviously don't, but are quick to charge for incomplete and unpolished software. In contrast you are quick to prosecute people who actually copy your buggy software.
HTC...how can you make new geneeration devices with under-powered bits? 64 MB RAM? C'mon!! Couldn't you have at least given us 128MB RAM so we don't all worry about memory management? Are you listening? Aaarrghh... who cares right :evil: ??!!??
I can't make up my mind if the Universal is an excellent technological achievement or an overpriced, overhyped piece of poorely stiched together meta-technologies. :roll:
So now, I have to learn to become a technology guru, not because I want to, just so I can use my bloody phone. :x
I give up.
No need to have a fit mate!
You've got your numbers mixed up. The Dell Axim has 256MB of ROM, and in fact has 64MB of RAM (same as the Universal).
Windows Mobile 5 introduced persistant storage which basically means everything is stored in ROM, rather than RAM as with WM2003. This means you now have the full amount of RAM available to you, and 64MB is loads!
There's also the issue that if you double the RAM size you double the memory power requirements which affects battery life.
Take a look at this article which explains it all a lot better than I can, and you'll see it's actually a really good idea to have 64MB:
http://blogs.msdn.com/windowsmobile/archive/2005/07/14/438991.aspx
Persistant Storage
no: 1
Thank you for your informative reply & I found the provided link very useful too. Well, they should have still given us at least what the Dell has got. Except for the keyboard and phone, we've not got much more and we pay more than double! Anyway, thanks again.
I'll discuss these issues with my shrink at our next meeting, I just can't control myself.
What is in the Dell vs. other PDA's that HTC makes is not really something that is comparable. Dell pays HTC for making the Axims. I imagine that if Dell is willing to spend the money on higher specs, they can do that. HTC doesn't decide what's in the Dell Axim, Dell does (for the most part). HTC then engineers and builds the devices.
On the other hand, HTC makes the JasJar for i-mate. i-mate decides the specs they want (with some input from the phoner companies I'm sure) and they pay HTC to make their PDA's. So, just because HTC makes the PDA's doesn't mean they are all going to be same spec-minded or the same cost. It's up to the "brand" (HP, Dell, i-mate etc) what HTC makes for them.
As far as deciding whether the Universal is an excellent technological achievement or an overpriced, overhyped piece of poorly stiched together meta-technologies, it's a little bit of both. It is an excellent technological achievement AND it is overpriced
Re: HTC & MS are Cruel & Manipulative!I know u visit
mackaby007 said:
Couldn't you have at least given us 128MB RAM
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The motherboard and software was designed
for 128MB RAM, but they put only 64MB into
Universal. Saves THEM money and reduces
power consumption.
DaleReeck said:
As far as deciding whether the Universal is an excellent technological achievement
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Compared to Himalaya and Blueangel, it is a
step back in engineering.
cr2 said:
DaleReeck said:
As far as deciding whether the Universal is an excellent technological achievement
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Compared to Himalaya and Blueangel, it is a
step back in engineering.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's a big shame!!!
They promised us heaven, and I find myself in hell!!
This device is a dream, but without minimum 128MB, better 256 MB of RAM, becomes hell, and useless!!!!!! :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :evil: :evil:
256Mb of Ram?
I have a (old) pentium 4 laptop that works well enough with 256Mb of Ram. Doesn't that seem a bit excessive for a PPC, especially as your battery would only last for about 93 seconds?!
As i said, 128mb, or 256 MB, do you have a JasJar? Do you know how it feels, to spend 1.094 euro plus 174 for and SD card ultra speed 2 GB, an not being able to use it at all, with the very simple applications? My Treo 650 runs much better!!!
And then, I shouldn't cry for at least 128 MB??? :twisted:
@trendstyle,
Sell the device.
Anyways, what is it that the 64MB RAM of the JJ does not permit you to do? Why on earth would you need 128MB of RAM? I multi-task extensively with the device and yet face no memory errors. Are you trying to run Photoshop or something like that on your device?
As another forum member has rightly pointed out, what on earth would you need 256Mb RAM for??? It wouldn't even last those 93 seconds!!!
Word of advice to other people who want to crib about the device. Before you start getting all nutty about spending this much and that much on a device, do a thorough research or wait for some reviews. You will save yourself and others the agony and disappointment.
My 0.002.
I entirely agree with Universaldoc.
While listening to the media player and running two processor and memory intensive applications Planmaker and TextMaker simultaneously I still have 10MB of RAM to spare. Why do I need more RAM. I am to use my JJ practically and not to see what amount of applications I need to open simultaneously to kill the JJ. More RAM is technically possible. But do I need it at the expense of battery life. A big "NO" for me at least.
Regards
Do you?
10 Mb are enough?
There are some games, that requires 15 MB of free RAM!!
And in a super top device, this should be acceptable???
Give a look here....
http://www.expansys.com/forumthread.asp?code=119353&thread=42
Then tell me if I am the only one....
I change a mobile phone every 4 months, buying always what is the top of the technology...
And believe me, at the moment, jasjar doesn't deliver what I-mate promised...
I look forward to a new rom, solving memory problems!
A new rom that came with 256mb memory with it, now there's something....
The universal is a good device and memory is fine on it you can have loads of apps running and it still runs faultlessly. This is not a lap top, if you ned one of those buy one nor is this a mobile it's a great device that tries to accomodate both, sure it could have more memory but then you'd be *****ing that " it's primarily a phone, why is the battery life so bad, it runs out half way through the day and i miss loads of important calls"
trendystyle said:
As i said, 128mb, or 256 MB, do you have a JasJar? Do you know how it feels, to spend 1.094 euro plus 174 for and SD card ultra speed 2 GB, an not being able to use it at all, with the very simple applications? My Treo 650 runs much better!!!
And then, I shouldn't cry for at least 128 MB??? :twisted:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, I do thanks, and if you "can't use it at all, with the very simple applications" then I'd suggest there's something actually, properly, really, honestly, very wrong with yours?! (Especially if your Treo 650 runs much better)
I know people are now used to computing with 3Ghz AMD64's with 1Gig RAM, and 100's of Gigs of HD space, but let's be realistic here, for a device of it's size, it's fantastic.
Given 128Mb RAM, I'm sure some people would only move on to bemoaning the fact that it 'only' runs at 520Mhz, it 'only' has 128Mb Rom, it 'only' has 802.11b, it's 'only' got 1.3 megapixels, etc, etc, etc.
The JasJar is not perfect, and there's a thread in this forum where people are already posting their JasJar 2 wishlists, but in my personal opinion (and I'm sure many agree), it's currently the best PDA/Phone available, it has near flawless performance for my purposes, and I for one am more than happy with it.
sub69 said:
I know people are now used to computing with 3Ghz AMD64's with 1Gig RAM
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's a shame to install <8GB RAM with AMD64.
And while you are there, the second CPU will
not hurt 8)
sub69 said:
trendystyle said:
As i said, 128mb, or 256 MB, do you have a JasJar? Do you know how it feels, to spend 1.094 euro plus 174 for and SD card ultra speed 2 GB, an not being able to use it at all, with the very simple applications? My Treo 650 runs much better!!!
And then, I shouldn't cry for at least 128 MB??? :twisted:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, I do thanks, and if you "can't use it at all, with the very simple applications" then I'd suggest there's something actually, properly, really, honestly, very wrong with yours?! (Especially if your Treo 650 runs much better)
I know people are now used to computing with 3Ghz AMD64's with 1Gig RAM, and 100's of Gigs of HD space, but let's be realistic here, for a device of it's size, it's fantastic.
Given 128Mb RAM, I'm sure some people would only move on to bemoaning the fact that it 'only' runs at 520Mhz, it 'only' has 128Mb Rom, it 'only' has 802.11b, it's 'only' got 1.3 megapixels, etc, etc, etc.
The JasJar is not perfect, and there's a thread in this forum where people are already posting their JasJar 2 wishlists, but in my personal opinion (and I'm sure many agree), it's currently the best PDA/Phone available, it has near flawless performance for my purposes, and I for one am more than happy with it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The treo rusns much better, because is able to run all the applications nd games on Palm OS, Jasjar, can't run games like arvale2, age of empire, ancient evil, are we talking about the latest in pocket pc phone, that can't do what my Asus 420mhz did 1 and a half year ago???
cr2 said:
sub69 said:
I know people are now used to computing with 3Ghz AMD64's with 1Gig RAM
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's a shame to install <8GB RAM with AMD64.
And while you are there, the second CPU will
not hurt 8)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
very funny...
By the way, do you think I am having fun??
Maybe I am posting this, to make sure, that until something get fixed with a new ROM, nobody will do the same mistake I did, Jasjar has been sent out in beta release....
I know people are now used to computing with 3Ghz AMD64's with 1Gig RAM, and 100's of Gigs of HD space, but let's be realistic here, for a device of it's size, it's fantastic.
Concerning this, I have a Dell Inspiron, 9300( a laptop), 2.14GHz Centrino Sonoma(equivalent to a Pentium 4, 3,8 Ghz), with 2 GB of ram, and Nvidia 6800 go with 256MB of video memory,I like my tech stuff to be the top, and this is why I bought right away the Jasjar, as all the review I read on the web they were screaming it was great!
My Inspiron is great, Jasjar, not at the moment...
In my point of view I assume 64 RAM are enough but if we had a big DOC storage well lets say about 256 MB this could be something for us, but the facts and the sad parts, which it's the 128MB of DOC :evil: !!!
I was reading the Universal hardware specs, we could upgrade the DOC to a bigger size!!! But we need a hardware techy to solder it.
Just goto this link you will know better Click Here!
ramram said:
In my point of view I assume 64 RAM are enough but if we had a big DOC storage well lets say about 256 MB this could be something for us, but the facts and the sad parts, which it's the 128MB of DOC :evil: !!!
I was reading the Universal hardware specs, we could upgrade the DOC to a bigger size!!! But we need a hardware techy to solder it.
Just goto this link you will know better Click Here!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If it's possible, I will do it, let me know if you get more news about it!
i have been planning to buy a hd2, but feel let down by the launch of t-mobile version which has 576 MB ram and 1 GB rom.
all these forums are crowded with possible tweaks for getting 576MB ram.
but i wonder why isnt 1GB rom making the news? its double of what HTC offers to us.
isnt 1GB rom imporant than say 576 MB ram.
sorrry if my question sounds silly, but would be glad if someone points to me the significance of how 128 MB addiional RAM outweighs the 512 MB additional ROM.
no problem...
U can install additional programs to ROM, but u can also install them to StorageCard. As long as the sizes of the new ROMs coming will not grow up, u will always have enough storage on Rom left to install some little apps and hotfixes that needs to be installed to rom.
But more RAM means u can left more things in memory to get quicker access to them and a more responsive (faster) device...(better multitasking) for example.
Compare a Windows XP PC running with 512MB of RAM to another one running 1GB...u will feel a huge difference.
Now compare the 2 machines both with 1GB of RAM but one running a 20GB HDD and the other one a 40GB HDD, and will not feel any difference. But, if u like, u can add another HDD to the machine with only 20GB HDD (same here like Storagecard for HD2)....
Hi Bimme,
thank you for your simple explanation.
Now i also understood what it´s all about RAM and ROM.
That was very usefull.
Greetings
Inuit
ya..thanks for the reply. my doubts cleared. but then this makes me ask one more question, why is it that 512 MB rom a limiting factor for win mob 7 as speculated. i mean i can get a decent capacity storage card.
i m really grateful 2 u for answeing my question, i think i will stick to and buy an hd2 this feb. but its jes these small small things that make me reconsider my option.
Or, to make it simpler, I know android can be installed to MicroSD, as a second OS. Does this mean that if our HD2 remains on 512MB ROM, and Win7 requires more, we can install it on MicroSD?
I suppose yes, but we would get in some term slower performances, on the boot, as well as starting applications, but in terms of running apps, it should stay as fast...
Correct me if I am wrong...
Another thing is that it was discovered by accident that the extra ram seems to be available on the euro devices. That caused the hype around that subject, nothing has been discovered about extra rom but that would indeed be great as well...
But yeah, as mentioned. There already was enough ram in the device so the extra ram doesn't give an enormous boost but always nice to have some unexpected extra stuff
Hey guys,
I was watching a demo of this phone from the French blog Frandroid and came across some useful info about the available amount of RAM:
We know the Galaxy S has 512MB of RAM, however, being the owner of an i8000 Omnia II (only 256MB), I can tell you that there are major issues with the very low available amount of RAM the phone actually had (the people over at Modaco were fighting like crazy to bring the amount up).
- Apparently, the phone has 180MB of available RAM (the rest seems to be used by Samsung/Android and not available for apps and all that).
- The phone has 79MB of available RAM with the following apps running:
+ Email
+ Clock
+ Amazon MP3
+ Voice Recognition (from Google)
+ Browser (however I don't know if it's Web or not)
+ Social Hub
+ Video Player
+ MP3 Player
+ "Advance Task Killer Free"
I hope this helps.
Cheers,
Will
Will.1 said:
The phone has 79MB of available RAM with the following apps running
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That looks pretty good to me. (I can't see what other apps i would be using with all of those running. To use GPS or read ebooks or write documents, etc I would close half of them)
Does anyone know if froyo uses more resources than eclair?
PS. I assume you mean those apps were all running simultaneously, and there was still 79MB free?
PPS. This will be my first android phone, so I hope 79MB free is pretty good. For some reason I seem to think that your post is criticizing these results, but I could be mis-reading. It is so late...
Because they are using the prototype version.
As gsmarena have stated the prototype version does only have 256 Mb while the final version will have 512 Mb
Dark Sector said:
Because they are using the prototype version.
As gsmarena have stated the prototype version does only have 256 Mb while the final version will have 512 Mb
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, the prototype had 512 meg of ram, just the software wasn't reporting it correctly
There are two things to consider here: first, with 2.1, the system can't use all of the available RAM. That will have to wait until Froyo arrives. Second, Android isn't Windows! Its Multitasking is very advanced and specifically designed for mobile devices. Even if you think all these applications are currently running, and the device does its magic to let it appear so, they don't always eat their share of RAM.
Free RAM says nothing at all on Android. Even apps that aren't currently "running" are kept in Memory when they are likely to be started again soon. What use is a large sum of unused memory? If you really need it, it will be there - at other times be glad it is put to use!
That might be true but as an i8000 owner I strongly advice everybody who want to buy that phone to what still somebody realiable got the phone and can report about the total amount of ram that is aviable to the system (OS + apps).
The I8000 only has about of 139 - 156 mb ram aviable to the system besides being sold as a 256 mb device.
TheGoD said:
That might be true but as an i8000 owner I strongly advice everybody who want to buy that phone to what still somebody realiable got the phone and can report about the total amount of ram that is aviable to the system (OS + apps).
The I8000 only has about of 139 - 156 mb ram aviable to the system besides being sold as a 256 mb device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think this is why the I800 was fast because "maybe" samsung came up with away to use some of the RAM space to speed up the device .
It might happen again specially while the Galaxy S looks so fast
For now let's say that Galaxy S will have 412 MB of available RAM .. still this looks too much
goood..
I'm currently running Zmod4 with Cognition B7, and almost everything seems to work perfectly for me. (Thank you DG and everyone else! Your work is nothing short of amazing!) I always install from a reset back to stock via Odin and complete wipe/master clear and have tried about every Rom when it becomes available. Everything usually installs perfectly and this setup was no exception. I do notice that the interface is smoother and the phone runs quicker in general with the ZMod4, but the lag is still there in the browser. It's not a placebo effect for me because I have Cog 2.1.4 on a friends Captivate at work as well as another friend that I have set up with a SRE with overclock and after every different setup I try, I always compare the browsers.
No matter which rom or configuration I am running the browsers on 2.1 based roms are always faster. They load a little faster which doesn't really bother me, its when you try to scroll up and down the heavier content pages that you get the hitches and lag. I've even tried different variations of the libwebcore.so files. Can't seem to get it running as smooth as 2.1. I figured it must have something to do with the fact that this is a leaked version of Froyo, but the same problem is persisting with others in the I9000 forum with the official release so I'm a little discouraged. The lag and hitches that I get, especially in larger content pages like engadget, pocketnow, huffingtonpost, etc. kinda drives me crazy when I see with my own eyes the browsers running completely smooth on the 2.1 setups.
I'm hoping with all the expertise and brain power we have amassed here in the developers section that someone may be able to figure out a way to fix this.
As a band aid to the real problem, I've tried running autokiller to free up more available memory with pretty limited results.
Why couldn't you just have continued discussion in this thread:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=803370
It's barely on MY page 2..
People usually disagree with me but I even found scrolling on busy webpages to be slower on my Nexus One with froyo vs eclair. This is with plugins either on demand or disabled.
I wouldn't expect it to get much better until scrolling/panning is offloaded to the GPU. Which should come first with Opera Mobile and hopefully the stock browser will support it in Gingerbread.
According to google engineers, the slow scrolling and hitching is due in part to garbage collection which ties up the CPU and keeps scrolling from being smooth.
Or maybe its because our froyo is leaked software?
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App
SkitchBeatz said:
Or maybe its because our froyo is leaked software?
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
this^ at least wait til froyo is released on the captivate before saying this.
maybe Flash is loading or something
richierich1212 said:
maybe Flash is loading or something
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've tried it both ways, flash on and flash completely disabled. Its better when disabled of course, but still far more laggy than it should be. I don't think a lot of people notice it because:
A. many people don't frequently go to sites that have enough content to dramatically slow the browser down and most of all........
B. Almost no one has two, let alone three different Captivates available, each running a different Rom to get a side by side comparison so its harder to see and measure the real world difference.
Maybe my expectations are too high but I do frequent larger web sites and I know that the browser does not have the lag on the 2.1 roms so it irritates the bejeesum out of me.
Id imagine the more active content on web pages due to flash 10.1 is going have an effect on scroll speed. Ive seen the same thing on an OCed droid. I havent played with cog 2.2 much as i really enjoy how smooth 2.1.7 is and didnt even need to OC it. Now that they have a new lagfix for 2.2 im thinking about flashing 2.2 again.
\/icious said:
Id imagine the more active content on web pages due to flash 10.1 is going have an effect on scroll speed. Ive seen the same thing on an OCed droid. I havent played with cog 2.2 much as i really enjoy how smooth 2.1.7 is and didnt even need to OC it. Now that they have a new lagfix for 2.2 im thinking about flashing 2.2 again.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your comments made it occur to me that while I have "disabled" flash in the browser settings, I've never completly tried to uninstall it....so I just did. With TiBu, so I'll run it this way for a bit and see what the real world effects are and report back.
FWIW, I didn't see a difference in scrolling between having plugins disabled and uninstalling Flash on my Nexus One. Haven't tried it on my Captivate for that reason.
dalingrin said:
People usually disagree with me but I even found scrolling on busy webpages to be slower on my Nexus One with froyo vs eclair. This is with plugins either on demand or disabled.
I wouldn't expect it to get much better until scrolling/panning is offloaded to the GPU. Which should come first with Opera Mobile and hopefully the stock browser will support it in Gingerbread.
According to google engineers, the slow scrolling and hitching is due in part to garbage collection which ties up the CPU and keeps scrolling from being smooth.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is straight up discouraging. I thought it was just Samsung's crappy Froyo leaks, but this makes it sound like the Froyo browser just doesn't scroll as smoothly as the 2.1 browser.
I think something that kinda pisses me off with this browser hogging ram is the other problem that doesn't get brought up very much and when it does its shot down. The missing 208mb of ram that is supposedly being used by the gpu or whatever (I forget what I heard). With a browser that can easily creep up on 100 mb's of used ram with pages open and with give or take 150 mb's free at boot right there your down in the red zone where things start to lag. And the launcher takes 20 mb's so now your down to 30 free mob's. God forbid you wanna play angry birds too, you'd be screwed. So that makes multitasking not as efficient as it should be if we had the lost 208mb's. I do like this phone but I'm not real happy with Samsung. The galaxy s phones were advertised with 512 mb's, that's what we should get. People use to say that it would be available when froyo came out since eclair couldn't use all of the ram. Well here it is officially out on the i9000 and were still stuck with 304mb's.
Sorry about the rant. The only thing I miss from my iPhone 4 was booting it up and having 350 mb's free
di11igaf said:
I think something that kinda pisses me off with this browser hogging ram is the other problem that doesn't get brought up very much and when it does its shot down. The missing 208mb of ram that is supposedly being used by the gpu or whatever (I forget what I heard). With a browser that can easily creep up on 100 mb's of used ram with pages open and with give or take 150 mb's free at boot right there your down in the red zone where things start to lag. And the launcher takes 20 mb's so now your down to 30 free mob's. God forbid you wanna play angry birds too, you'd be screwed. So that makes multitasking not as efficient as it should be if we had the lost 208mb's. I do like this phone but I'm not real happy with Samsung. The galaxy s phones were advertised with 512 mb's, that's what we should get. People use to say that it would be available when froyo came out since eclair couldn't use all of the ram. Well here it is officially out on the i9000 and were still stuck with 304mb's.
Sorry about the rant. The only thing I miss from my iPhone 4 was booting it up and having 350 mb's free
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, what they did is pretty deceiving. I usually had more free memory on my Aria and it only had 384 MB of RAM.
di11igaf said:
I think something that kinda pisses me off with this browser hogging ram is the other problem that doesn't get brought up very much and when it does its shot down. The missing 208mb of ram that is supposedly being used by the gpu or whatever (I forget what I heard). With a browser that can easily creep up on 100 mb's of used ram with pages open and with give or take 150 mb's free at boot right there your down in the red zone where things start to lag. And the launcher takes 20 mb's so now your down to 30 free mob's. God forbid you wanna play angry birds too, you'd be screwed. So that makes multitasking not as efficient as it should be if we had the lost 208mb's. I do like this phone but I'm not real happy with Samsung. The galaxy s phones were advertised with 512 mb's, that's what we should get. People use to say that it would be available when froyo came out since eclair couldn't use all of the ram. Well here it is officially out on the i9000 and were still stuck with 304mb's.
Sorry about the rant. The only thing I miss from my iPhone 4 was booting it up and having 350 mb's free
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The Galaxy S phones indeed have 512 MB of RAM. As for whether part of that is allocated by GPU (of which I believe no more than 32-64 MB must be for that), you still have to consider that android as an operating system sets aside a VERY LARGE chunk of RAM just for radio. It would be VERY STUPID of a phone to not set aside more than enough RAM to make sure the radio *always* gets top priority. Also, complaining about RAM getting "filled up" is a moot argument to begin with. Android honestly allocates RAM as fast as possible. It WANTS RAM to be as filled as possible, leaving between 50-75 MB free. If you use a task killer and kill everything, yeah you'll jump back up to 200+ MB free, but android will reallocate that memory just as fast to something else because that's what the OS is designed to do.
So, say we set aside 64 MB of RAM for VRAM, 128 MB for the GSM radio and other vital-to-operation-and-functionality processes that are specifically reserved and untouchable by us (these numbers are pulled out of my ass, for all I know the VRAM is 128 MB and the GSM only uses 75 MB... the point still stands) that drops us down to the ~300 MB range for user accessible functionality. Also, the browser RAM/smoothness issue you're referring to is a BUG because the froyo build is NON-FINAL, complaining about that is like saying "my knees hurt when I drag them on the ground." I assume this is something they will try to improve before final release, but I don't know, maybe they consider it "good enough."
On top of this, let's discuss the potential that maybe NONE of the RAM is set aside for the GPU and it runs itself. The complaint about a lack of the full 512 is also hard to discuss because HIGHMEM support was only added in 2.2 to have the full access to 512. Just because the potential to enable in 2.2 exists, doesn't mean they're taking advantage of it. I'd like to believe they are, so again, that drops back to the ~100 MB taken up by the GSM radio/phone functionality. As for whether this is "too much," that's not really up to you unless you want to go ahead and build a ROM from scratch. It's in the best interest of the company who made the phone to err on the side of caution and give it too much than too little. On top of that, the core OS allocates itself to set areas of RAM that you also can't change because man that would be stupid if they let you (want to see your phone crash? try to kill a process that controls the OS).
Basically, the RAM is there, we just don't have full userland access to all of it, it's pointless to complain. If it bugs you, take a stab at fixing it and prove you're better than samsung and make your own ROM.
Kaik541 said:
The Galaxy S phones indeed have 512 MB of RAM. As for whether part of that is allocated by GPU (of which I believe no more than 32-64 MB must be for that), you still have to consider that android as an operating system sets aside a VERY LARGE chunk of RAM just for radio. It would be VERY STUPID of a phone to not set aside more than enough RAM to make sure the radio *always* gets top priority. Also, complaining about RAM getting "filled up" is a moot argument to begin with. Android honestly allocates RAM as fast as possible. It WANTS RAM to be as filled as possible, leaving between 50-75 MB free. If you use a task killer and kill everything, yeah you'll jump back up to 200+ MB free, but android will reallocate that memory just as fast to something else because that's what the OS is designed to do.
So, say we set aside 64 MB of RAM for VRAM, 128 MB for the GSM radio and other vital-to-operation-and-functionality processes that are specifically reserved and untouchable by us (these numbers are pulled out of my ass, for all I know the VRAM is 128 MB and the GSM only uses 75 MB... the point still stands) that drops us down to the ~300 MB range for user accessible functionality. Also, the browser RAM/smoothness issue you're referring to is a BUG because the froyo build is NON-FINAL, complaining about that is like saying "my knees hurt when I drag them on the ground." I assume this is something they will try to improve before final release, but I don't know, maybe they consider it "good enough."
On top of this, let's discuss the potential that maybe NONE of the RAM is set aside for the GPU and it runs itself. The complaint about a lack of the full 512 is also hard to discuss because HIGHMEM support was only added in 2.2 to have the full access to 512. Just because the potential to enable in 2.2 exists, doesn't mean they're taking advantage of it. I'd like to believe they are, so again, that drops back to the ~100 MB taken up by the GSM radio/phone functionality. As for whether this is "too much," that's not really up to you unless you want to go ahead and build a ROM from scratch. It's in the best interest of the company who made the phone to err on the side of caution and give it too much than too little. On top of that, the core OS allocates itself to set areas of RAM that you also can't change because man that would be stupid if they let you (want to see your phone crash? try to kill a process that controls the OS).
Basically, the RAM is there, we just don't have full userland access to all of it, it's pointless to complain. If it bugs you, take a stab at fixing it and prove you're better than samsung and make your own ROM.
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It doesn't seem to make sense that it would be the ram anyway because the browser is blazing fast on 2.1 on the same phones with the same amount of ram available.
By the way, completely deleting flash did not improve the browser speed at all so I don't believe this has anything to do with it either.
I've looked high and low for a definitive answer on where the "missing" RAM is. I havent found one yet. I guess samsung would need to weigh in on that. But I do know that on my captivate going into quadrant system info says we have 311,xxx KB's of memory available to Android OS. A coworker has a verizon fascinate, his has 332,xxx KB's of memory. Another coworker has a droid incredible and his has 422,xxx KB's of memory. They all start with 512MB and obviously some of it is partitioned off and reserved for other functions such as GPU, ram disk, radio, etc.
derek4484 said:
I've looked high and low for a definitive answer on where the "missing" RAM is. I havent found one yet. I guess samsung would need to weigh in on that. But I do know that on my captivate going into quadrant system info says we have 311,xxx KB's of memory available to Android OS. A coworker has a verizon fascinate, his has 332,xxx KB's of memory. Another coworker has a droid incredible and his has 422,xxx KB's of memory. They all start with 512MB and obviously some of it is partitioned off and reserved for other functions such as GPU, ram disk, radio, etc.
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Click to collapse
Yeah, we definitely have 512 MB of RAM. Samsung just seems to reserve more of it for other as yet unknown functions than other manufacturers.
Kaik541 said:
The Galaxy S phones indeed have 512 MB of RAM. As for whether part of that is allocated by GPU (of which I believe no more than 32-64 MB must be for that), you still have to consider that android as an operating system sets aside a VERY LARGE chunk of RAM just for radio. It would be VERY STUPID of a phone to not set aside more than enough RAM to make sure the radio *always* gets top priority. Also, complaining about RAM getting "filled up" is a moot argument to begin with. Android honestly allocates RAM as fast as possible. It WANTS RAM to be as filled as possible, leaving between 50-75 MB free. If you use a task killer and kill everything, yeah you'll jump back up to 200+ MB free, but android will reallocate that memory just as fast to something else because that's what the OS is designed to do.
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Click to collapse
The problem is that garbage collection doesn't come free. I agree that the operating system is designed to use RAM as data cache as much as possible but the problem with the Galaxy S models is the lack of free RAM to begin with. This causes more garbage collection calls than on other phones because phones with more ram have a greater chance of the program or library being already in RAM.
I agree that a task killer isn't a good solution. I find that making the garbage collector more aggressive works to reduce the stuttering much better. If a program needs to dynamically load library calls while it is running and you don't have enough free memory then you are going to see a lot of stuttering when the garbage collector gets called to make room.
So, say we set aside 64 MB of RAM for VRAM, 128 MB for the GSM radio and other vital-to-operation-and-functionality processes that are specifically reserved and untouchable by us (these numbers are pulled out of my ass, for all I know the VRAM is 128 MB and the GSM only uses 75 MB... the point still stands) that drops us down to the ~300 MB range for user accessible functionality. Also, the browser RAM/smoothness issue you're referring to is a BUG because the froyo build is NON-FINAL, complaining about that is like saying "my knees hurt when I drag them on the ground." I assume this is something they will try to improve before final release, but I don't know, maybe they consider it "good enough."
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Click to collapse
You are assuming it is a bug. In my experience it isn't. The problem is exaggerated on the Galaxy S vs my Nexus One but that could easily be attributed to having 100+mb less available memory.
Kaik541 said:
The Galaxy S phones indeed have 512 MB of RAM. As for whether part of that is allocated by GPU (of which I believe no more than 32-64 MB must be for that), you still have to consider that android as an operating system sets aside a VERY LARGE chunk of RAM just for radio. It would be VERY STUPID of a phone to not set aside more than enough RAM to make sure the radio *always* gets top priority. Also, complaining about RAM getting "filled up" is a moot argument to begin with. Android honestly allocates RAM as fast as possible. It WANTS RAM to be as filled as possible, leaving between 50-75 MB free. If you use a task killer and kill everything, yeah you'll jump back up to 200+ MB free, but android will reallocate that memory just as fast to something else because that's what the OS is designed to do.
So, say we set aside 64 MB of RAM for VRAM, 128 MB for the GSM radio and other vital-to-operation-and-functionality processes that are specifically reserved and untouchable by us (these numbers are pulled out of my ass, for all I know the VRAM is 128 MB and the GSM only uses 75 MB... the point still stands) that drops us down to the ~300 MB range for user accessible functionality. Also, the browser RAM/smoothness issue you're referring to is a BUG because the froyo build is NON-FINAL, complaining about that is like saying "my knees hurt when I drag them on the ground." I assume this is something they will try to improve before final release, but I don't know, maybe they consider it "good enough."
On top of this, let's discuss the potential that maybe NONE of the RAM is set aside for the GPU and it runs itself. The complaint about a lack of the full 512 is also hard to discuss because HIGHMEM support was only added in 2.2 to have the full access to 512. Just because the potential to enable in 2.2 exists, doesn't mean they're taking advantage of it. I'd like to believe they are, so again, that drops back to the ~100 MB taken up by the GSM radio/phone functionality. As for whether this is "too much," that's not really up to you unless you want to go ahead and build a ROM from scratch. It's in the best interest of the company who made the phone to err on the side of caution and give it too much than too little. On top of that, the core OS allocates itself to set areas of RAM that you also can't change because man that would be stupid if they let you (want to see your phone crash? try to kill a process that controls the OS).
Basically, the RAM is there, we just don't have full userland access to all of it, it's pointless to complain. If it bugs you, take a stab at fixing it and prove you're better than samsung and make your own ROM.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The official 2.2 release is out for the i9000 is out and it has a total of 304 mb of ram. The os takes a big chunk of this so with nothing running the most that is possible to access EVER for programs is about 170mb. Your launcher takes 20. The browser even on 2.1 with a couple of large pages loaded can easily take 100 mb. That leaves you with maybe 50mb available if you lucky. This is when things might get a little slow and the os will start killing off processes as it sees fit. So if you have a game open that you want to keep open in the background it wont. It will kill it which makes muttitasking very poor on a phone where its supposed to be above the rest. The point is we only have around 170 mb's available to the user. That's pretty ****ty. This is on the OFFICIAL froyo release for the i9000 and I highly doubt it will change for us. There is 208 mb's that are missing that should be user accessible. I don't care what uses it the fact is that I can't. The phone was advertised with 512 ram not 304 mb's with 208 vram or whatever. I traded an iphone 4 in for this phone and I still think that was a great decision as I love this phone. But at least when I booted my iphone 4 I had at least 350mb's of user accessible ram which we will not see. We have half of that and I think that sucks. Sorry for stating my opinion. Here's my old phone not even after a fresh boot and I could access all of it
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di11igaf said:
The official 2.2 release is out for the i9000 is out and it has a total of 304 mb of ram. The os takes a big chunk of this so with nothing running the most that is possible to access EVER for programs is about 170mb. Your launcher takes 20. The browser even on 2.1 with a couple of large pages loaded can easily take 100 mb. That leaves you with maybe 50mb available if you lucky. This is when things might get a little slow and the os will start killing off processes as it sees fit. So if you have a game open that you want to keep open in the background it wont. It will kill it which makes muttitasking very poor on a phone where its supposed to be above the rest. The point is we only have around 170 mb's available to the user. That's pretty ****ty. This is on the OFFICIAL froyo release for the i9000 and I highly doubt it will change for us. There is 208 mb's that are missing that should be user accessible. I don't care what uses it the fact is that I can't. The phone was advertised with 512 ram not 304 mb's with 208 vram or whatever. I traded an iphone 4 in for this phone and I still think that was a great decision as I love this phone. But at least when I booted my iphone 4 I had at least 350mb's of user accessible ram which we will not see. We have half of that and I think that sucks. Sorry for stating my opinion. Here's my old phone not even after a fresh boot and I could access all of it
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Click to collapse
blah blah blah, same old story. also, if you read, the JPM release got pulled and they're pushing a later release toward the start of November. Also, I included the option that the final release only gives 304 MB RAM to userland. if you're just going to ignore all my comments, then feel free. this is like complaining that you bought a computer with 2 GB of RAM and are mad that Windows says "I'm going to take 500 MB of that and run in there." go ahead, kill those windows processes and watch the system crumble... same thing on our phones. you're also ignoring the fact that I never said "208 mb to vram," good for you for getting just about everything else I said wrong. on top of that, comparing the iphone (a BSD-based mobile OS) against android (a linux-based mobile OS running inside a dalvik java VM) is like saying "why are burritos more filling than these peanuts?" iOS is designed to run on ONE base hardware by ONE base manufacturer, android is modular and designed to work on a VARIETY of platforms and tweaked as the manufacturer wants to.
Samsung advertises the phone with 512 MB of RAM, there is 512 MB of RAM in the phone. Where in their advertising ANYWHERE does it says "512 MB of userland RAM access"? You have nothing worth complaining about. If you miss your free RAM so much, go back to iphone or get a device that doesn't set aside so much of the RAM for *radio* (notice this word, radio, not VRAM... hell I even posited an option that says samsung may not be including the VRAM from the total at all). if you're upset your phone only grants you permission to 3/5ths of your total RAM, get a phone that doesn't. you aren't being "robbed," the hardware is there, it's Samsung's decision to set aside as much as they want for whatever they want. YOU CHOOSE TO ENCOURAGE THIS DECISION BY BUYING THEIR PRODUCT. If you don't like it, return the product, vote with your wallet. Get a device that allows more userland access to RAM and quit your *****ing and moaning.
Guys, how can I get my samsung vibrant to recognize all the 512mb of ram. I thought froyo has all the software and kernels and stuff to recognize the full 512mb of my phone not just 308mb. Do I need to flash a new kernel or something. I have the nero v3 rom on my phone, with voodoo enabled. So how do we fix this?
308 MB you phone is showing you is the correct amount, your phone does have 512 MB of RAM total. However, part of that is used by the phone and android system to supply your phone's graphics card and other functions such as a RAM disk if I remembered correctly. In addition, You don't want your phone to run out of memory because you are running a game and missed that all important call right? well part of the RAM is reserved to keep the "phone" portion of the Android working.
It is a common misconception that Froyo will "unlock" this hidden RAM, but in reality we are already using all the RAM that came with the phone. The reason some HTC phone shows 512 MB of RAM is either because the phone is reading the "TotaL" amount of RAM or in the case of G2 the phone actually came with more than 512 MB of ram but advertised as 512 MB (the extra RAM is used in the same way as the Vibrant, GPU/Ram disk/Android, etc).
What about the iphone, my cousin always gets 300t mb of free memory on his iphone 4. Android can't be that much of a ram hog. By the way doesn't the power vr gpu have dedicated ram for it self, I man come on, its a high end phone. Samsung is really messing up on there phones.
My question is *why* do you need more free RAM? Are you really running out, ever? Don't think of it like a PC where you need free RAM as overhead when apps start utilizing more and more. Android will free up more RAM as necessary by killing apps that are preloaded in the background. I've never run into a situation where I've run out of memory, couldn't even tell you what happens when you do. I don't use task-killers, run a ton of widgets, and I've never seen it dip below 60-70mb free.
Kubernetes said:
My question is *why* do you need more free RAM? Are you really running out, ever? Don't think of it like a PC where you need free RAM as overhead when apps start utilizing more and more. Android will free up more RAM as necessary by killing apps that are preloaded in the background. I've never run into a situation where I've run out of memory, couldn't even tell you what happens when you do. I don't use task-killers, run a ton of widgets, and I've never seen it dip below 60-70mb free.[/QUOTE
Yes I do run out of ram. Every time I watch a flash video and while leaving no heavy ram using apps to be multitasked, after I finish my vigo and go back to my other apps I finder them killed. It gets on my nerves. I expected more out of 512mb. I also spent too much money for my phone for it to perform under shar what it's specified.
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Click to collapse
I run autokiller and always have 150ish.free. even if I didn't run it I would never run out id ram even when I had my g1
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So much for multitasking, right?
Phone has 384 app accessible ram. Typically runs with ~100ish free after a fresh boot with a stock ROM. The browser can take ~30mb, so that doesn't leave much to multitasking with. When ur phone starts auto killing performance decreases. They should have h put the aeverised ram in the phone, instead of playing the semantics game. Even Verizon updated their fascinate specs to change that to 384.
I'll make sure to check this before I buy my next phone in a couple weeks tho (soooo excited!!!).
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
N8ter said:
So much for multitasking, right?
Phone has 384 apparently accessible ram. Even Verizon updated their fascinate specs to change that.
Galaxy tab uses the same social and its alwaysvshowing 400+ MB ram on everyone I checked.
I'll make sure to check this before I buy my next phone in a couple weeks tho (soooo excited!!!).
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
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Click to collapse
This means that this is a software issue, not hardware because the tab has the same processor found in the vibrant. 400t is allot better than just 300, not only but the tab also requires more resources with it's 720p screen.
helikido said:
This means that this is a software issue, not hardware because the tab has the same processor found in the vibrant. 400t is allot better than just 300, not only but the tab also requires more resources with it's 720p screen.
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Click to collapse
It's not a software issue.
And yes, 100MB RAM in a smartphone is a lot.
It's like getting a computer with 4GB RAM and ripping a 2GB RAM stick out out of it.
There's 128 MB RAM that isn't accessible to the system The OS itself probably uses abut 100+ MB RAM, and once you start installing applications/services that start eating up resources.
Some say the 128 is dedicated graphics ram (fast graphics RAM to allow the Hummingbird to achieve it's faster GPU performance). What a waste. I'll make sure my next phone isn't built like a game console.
They should have at least added another 64MB RAM the way HTC did in the HD2/HD7.
The phone has as much App RAM as a mid-range Android device (think HTC Aria). It's factorable, especially if you want to multitask. Running multiple applications on this phone, I basically have to manage my apps they way I did on Windows Mobile (i.e. open task manager to FC the browser, etc.) because you don't want to be playing a game or doing anything somewhat important when the phone starts trying to auto-close background tasks to recover RAM (and some services will simply restart themselves immediately).
Good phone, bad execution in the software, and they should not have advertised it as having 512 RAM, because to anyone that isn't an idiot Graphics RAM is not synonymous with Application RAM, and 128 less RAM is quite a big chunk to be missing.
...Graphics RAM is not synonymous with Application RAM, and 128 less RAM is quite a big chunk to be missing.
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Click to collapse
Virtually every computer on the shelf at Wally-World and Best Buy do exactly this - the motherboard graphics chip uses system RAM to operate. Admittedly does not directly correlate to a phone, and they should make a disclosure, but there is ample precedent in the general marketplace.
I don't understand why some of you attribute a free RAM amount (or lack thereof) as a memory hog?
If RAM is used instead of slower disk I/O it translates to a better user experience, the OS is good on keeping the taps on the memory and clean the thrash by itself, but nothing can prevent poor coding and a single rouge app can become the memory hog independent of how much RAM your system has, it might eat all of it.
The real problem is that the phone has only about 150mb of free ram and that'd on boot up. If the phone does have some ram dedicated to the gpu from the system ram (known as shared ram) then why
Don't other android devices do that too, and the iphone has more free ram on boot up then what is user acsesable to me. I thought the gloriose sgx540 had it's own high end dedicated ram for graphics?
N8ter said:
So much for multitasking, right?
Phone has 384 app accessible ram. Typically runs with ~100ish free after a fresh boot with a stock ROM. The browser can take ~30mb, so that doesn't leave much to multitasking with. When ur phone starts auto killing performance decreases. They should have h put the aeverised ram in the phone, instead of playing the semantics game. Even Verizon updated their fascinate specs to change that to 384.
I'll make sure to check this before I buy my next phone in a couple weeks tho (soooo excited!!!).
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you hate your vibrant so much why do you spend so much time on the forums? Dont seem to contribute much so just go get a new phone and leave us alone.
ionic7 said:
If you hate your vibrant so much why do you spend so much time on the forums? Dont seem to contribute much so just go get a new phone and leave us alone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is an ignore list feature on these forums
helikido said:
The real problem is that the phone has only about 150mb of free ram and that'd on boot up. If the phone does have some ram dedicated to the gpu from the system ram (known as shared ram) then why
Don't other android devices do that too, and the iphone has more free ram on boot up then what is user acsesable to me. I thought the gloriose sgx540 had it's own high end dedicated ram for graphics?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And how is that a problem?
Do you have an immediate need for something that requires 150+ MB after the boot?
Here's an absolutely healthy linux system with 2GB of RAM:
Code:
free
total used free shared buffers cached
Mem: 2049868 1982076 67792 0 146988 840748
-/+ buffers/cache: 994340 1055528
Swap: 6008824 820 6008004
I will be worried if my swap is being used a lot, but using my memory on the system is good.
I agree with this. 512 advertised, 308 seen, 150 Available after a boot....my phone keeps running out of memory so often its sad. It can never run my music player and my gps software at the same time. When I switch between the 2 apps, it closes the other one and its really really sad to see. ****ty job samsung, ****ty job. I hope the galaxy s mod gets ported for the ram which opens 338mb. At least its something.
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}{Alienz}{ said:
It can never run my music player and my gps software at the same time.
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I just went on a 700+ mile car trip with the music player and gps navigation software running the entire time. No problem. Was even able to simultaneously play games while my wife was driving.
}{Alienz}{ said:
I agree with this. 512 advertised, 308 seen, 150 Available after a boot....my phone keeps running out of memory so often its sad. It can never run my music player and my gps software at the same time. When I switch between the 2 apps, it closes the other one and its really really sad to see. ****ty job samsung, ****ty job. I hope the galaxy s mod gets ported for the ram which opens 338mb. At least its something.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
you have a rouge app/apps running that memory hog your phone, getting 30MB of more available RAM will not save it. You need to find what is hogging your phone, I am yet to see a message that my phone is low on memory, sometimes I do a lot of browsing, txt, mytracks and playing music with Pandora or stock player at the same time and it never complained that it was low on memory to run these.
ionic7 said:
If you hate your vibrant so much why do you spend so much time on the forums? Dont seem to contribute much so just go get a new phone and leave us alone.
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Click to collapse
Who said that I hate my phone.I'm only truong to find out shar mashes it not recognize all it's ram. In this era, ram is a huge factor to run apps and most importantly newer os updates like ginger bread and honey comb. Don't wanna run out of ram right when you boot up your phone don't you? And if the tab can recognize more ram than this then this means it does gave something to do with software. I guess we have to wait for samsung to release froyo, because im sure that they will gave all threw tweaks that will boost this phone very high, bedside from shar I've noticed, all the,roms out thete dont really boost this phone allot. How do I know,i gave nero v3 and that only boosted me to 1137 on quadrant from 2.1 and with voodo enabled I get 1500 max on quadrant. Oclf the same thing too. so all I'm saying is that it's definitely a software issue. Pretty sure android does not hog 400mbt. And no sgx has its own ram for sure.
I still don't get how you're running out of RAM. Right now I've got Winamp streaming through BT and have started streaming a Flash video. Also running are XDA and Maps. No hiccups.
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