Related
http://techcrunch.com/2011/09/23/samsung-apples-been-freeriding-were-getting-aggressive/
I really hope the statement is true where they say: "...the only way to avoid such litigation would be if Apple removed “mobile telecommunications functions” from the iPhone." although I am sure that statement is somewhat inflated. It would be hilarious to see Apple get slapped down.
Pretty interesting turn of events
Chances are apple will pay Sammy royalties and vice versa but id love to see apple get shut down by Sammy.
In other news : this kind of stuff is going to happen much more frequently because of the recession
Sent from my SPH-D700 using xda premium
Although I have a Samsung device, I support Apple. I will get an Iphone once its available on Sprint only because I would prefer my money to go to an American company.
midnighttoker said:
Although I have a Samsung device, I support Apple. I will get an Iphone once its available on Sprint only because I would prefer my money to go to an American company.
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If that's seriously what you cared about, they why not buy a Motorola Photon?
midnighttoker said:
Although I have a Samsung device, I support Apple. I will get an Iphone once its available on Sprint only because I would prefer my money to go to an American company.
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Do you know how many foreign people make te parts in foreign factories to make your american iPhone?
Also why would people wan apple shut down? I admit Apple is on a power trip and needs to be taken off its high horse but to shut it down doest hurt Apple, it hurts the people making the iPhone.
Sent from my un-rooted Samsung Epic 4G with XDA Premium
foxconn? Seriously, it's better to have a company corporate based in America that farms out all its mfg to Asia? I'd rather have a foreign company using American workers to mfg their products. But that's only really going to happen in the auto industry.
midnighttoker said:
Although I have a Samsung device, I support Apple. I will get an Iphone once its available on Sprint only because I would prefer my money to go to an American company.
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If its cheaper to manufacture my product in a different country then that's what I would do. Corprate tax rate is too high in this country(highest in the world). Why would anyone want to open a factory in this country when they can save millions in tax dollars and avoid the regulations the government imposes by opening their factory in another country? Can't blame a company for wanting to make money, that is the ultimate goal afterall.
So yes I will support the American company and that is Apple.
well enjoy your iphone then. and it's not all about tax dollars, it's about taking advantage of beyond cheap labor.
midnighttoker said:
If its cheaper to manufacture my product in a different country then that's what I would do. Corprate tax rate is too high in this country(highest in the world). Why would anyone want to open a factory in this country when they can save millions in tax dollars and avoid the regulations the government imposes by opening their factory in another country? Can't blame a company for wanting to make money, that is the ultimate goal afterall.
So yes I will support the American company and that is Apple.
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You're still giving Samsung money in the long run lol. Sammy makes parts for Apple they always have which Apple pays them to do so with profited money. This Pro American ideology is flawed as nothing is truly American only in this world, it's a melding pot. And Foxconn was a travesty, it shows what cutting corners does to workers in other countries. What is a part of a device we may use for a year ends being a part of what ruins someone's life for the rest of it.
Sent from my Epic 4G
+1
Sent from my un-rooted Samsung Epic 4G with XDA Premium
LMAO!!!
http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/11/09/23/htcs_s3_graphics_sues_apple_again_for_alleged_patent_violations.html
midnighttoker said:
If its cheaper to manufacture my product in a different country then that's what I would do. Corprate tax rate is too high in this country(highest in the world). Why would anyone want to open a factory in this country when they can save millions in tax dollars and avoid the regulations the government imposes by opening their factory in another country? Can't blame a company for wanting to make money, that is the ultimate goal afterall.
So yes I will support the American company and that is Apple.
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Corp tax to high? Well percent wise i pay like most of us more than them. I believe it was GE last year paid less or around 1%, ide take that over my 30%.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
Correct.
AND AS A MATTER OF FACT... after deductions, GE got a refund that effectively equated to them getting paid to do business in the States.
5FOOTER said:
Corp tax to high? Well percent wise i pay like most of us more than them. I believe it was GE last year paid less or around 1%, ide take that over my 30%.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
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Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
Xhyperion said:
Chances are apple will pay Sammy royalties and vice versa but id love to see apple get shut down by Sammy.
In other news : this kind of stuff is going to happen much more frequently because of the recession
Sent from my SPH-D700 using xda premium
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And vice versa? So Apple will have to pay Samsung AND Samsung will have to pay Apple? Did you even try to think that through?
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
These law suits just waste money that could be used for developing hardware and software. There are many ways to make a wheel but ultimately it's still a circle. If apple, or any other company, focused on developing any current technology or utilising it in another way rather than suing over a product which will be considered old in the rapidly developing technology industry the better it would be for all of us.
I don't like apple but I don't want them shut down. Diversity is good and we should build on others work.
Sent from my HTC Desire using XDA App
ymmit said:
These law suits just waste money that could be used for developing hardware and software. There are many ways to make a wheel but ultimately it's still a circle. If apple, or any other company, focused on developing any current technology or utilising it in another way rather than suing over a product which will be considered old in the rapidly developing technology industry the better it would be for all of us.
I don't like apple but I don't want them shut down. Diversity is good and we should build on others work.
Sent from my HTC Desire using XDA App
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You do know that Apple started this crap right?
http://www.pcworld.com/article/2387...samsung_galaxy_s_sii_and_ace_smartphones.html
http://thisismynext.com/2011/05/28/samsung-apple-iphone-5-ipad-3/
Apple got way to cocky IMO, and now the shoes on the other foot...
I admit that this is stupid as well, but maybe after this, Apple will knock this the eff off! Just license the tech from all those with a patent--affordably, and be done with it. Apple didn't need to have the SGII banned in Germany, nor did they need to completely ban flash in IOS. Apple just bit off more then they can chew!
All of Apple's enemies are laughing now...
midnighttoker said:
If its cheaper to manufacture my product in a different country then that's what I would do. Corprate tax rate is too high in this country(highest in the world). Why would anyone want to open a factory in this country when they can save millions in tax dollars and avoid the regulations the government imposes by opening their factory in another country? Can't blame a company for wanting to make money, that is the ultimate goal afterall.
So yes I will support the American company and that is Apple.
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You sir are an idiot, and the reason our economy is dying. 50 years ago, America was a production nation, but we have outsourced 70 percent of production to skim the overhead. Which then allows the corporate entities to amass wealth, and never redistribute to the middle and lower classes through wages.
Your narrow minded idiocy is the reason we all are suffering.
Yes. I am aware apple stated this. They are arseholes. They brought this on themselves and really really deserve it. I hope they lose big time. I still think the law suits are a waste of time and money, unfortunately once the ball has started rolling it just keeps going.
I appreciate that you tried to clear this up for me.
Sent from my HTC Desire using XDA App
midnighttoker said:
Although I have a Samsung device, I support Apple. I will get an Iphone once its available on Sprint only because I would prefer my money to go to an American company.
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If you want to support an "American Company" then you might want to start by heading up a group to try to get Apple to actually produce products in AMERICA, by AMERICAN workers.
Apple has factories involved in iPhone production in China, Taiwan, Thailand, Malaysia, Singapore, South Korea, the Czech Republic, Philippines and the U.S.
Many iPhones are produced by Hon Hai Precision Industry Co. in Shenzen, China.
---------- Post added at 07:48 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:44 AM ----------
azyouthinkeyeiz said:
You sir are an idiot, and the reason our economy is dying. 50 years ago, America was a production nation, but we have outsourced 70 percent of production to skim the overhead. Which then allows the corporate entities to amass wealth, and never redistribute to the middle and lower classes through wages.
Your narrow minded idiocy is the reason we all are suffering.
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I couldn't agree more. Outsourcing is the reason this country is f**ked and will always be f**ked. What the Government should do is grow some balls and tax the hell out of companies that outsource jobs overseas. Call centers like Sprint, for example. It's annoying as **** when you call them and get someone from another country who's taken the job that someone here could have had because Sprint outsources, and on top of that, they don't even tell you their real name LOL
Apple is pursuing patent road blocks in the US International Trade Commission as well as federal courts. Engadget is reporting that the judge in the case before the International Trade Commission is recommending an import ban on Samsung phones and tablets, which will require work around to remedy patent infringements. The next big market with brewing patent issues for Samsung is the EU. 2013 is definitely looking like a year of escalated patent wars, which is not good news foe consumer.http://www.engadget.com/2012/12/29/itc-document-recommends-samsung-post-88-percent-value-bond/
Bad news if the phone/tablet you want gets stopped from entering the country...
It's just makes me laugh when you think about the fact that Samsung could stop Ipad sales worldwide with a snap of their fingers if they wanted to. And yet Apple keeps poking at the bear.
midas69 said:
It's just makes me laugh when you think about the fact that Samsung could stop Ipad sales worldwide with a snap of their fingers if they wanted to. And yet Apple keeps poking at the bear.
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It's rarely that simple. There are big business deals and contractual obligations in play.
Not to mention the money Samsung makes from selling to Apple.
And if it weren't for potential income from future litigation, Apple's market share value might well drop even further. Possibly into realistic ranges! Other than making smaller versions of established products and the "retina display".....not much else truly innovative has come from Cupertino. IMHO.
midas69 said:
It's just makes me laugh when you think about the fact that Samsung could stop Ipad sales worldwide with a snap of their fingers if they wanted to. And yet Apple keeps poking at the bear.
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Really.. tell me more
aalupatti said:
Really.. tell me more
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Samsung makes the cell modem, cpu, and display for apple. Probably more, but it's Maryland I haven't had coffee yet.
Sent from my GT-N8013 using XDA Premium HD app
mke1973 said:
Apple is pursuing patent road blocks in the US International Trade Commission as well as federal courts. Engadget is reporting that the judge in the case before the International Trade Commission is recommending an import ban on Samsung phones and tablets, which will require work around to remedy patent infringements. The next big market with brewing patent issues for Samsung is the EU. 2013 is definitely looking like a year of escalated patent wars, which is not good news foe consumer.http://www.engadget.com/2012/12/29/itc-document-recommends-samsung-post-88-percent-value-bond/
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Product Ban will never happen.
rap6388 said:
Product Ban will never happen.
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The good news for Samsung is that Apple's suffered several recent setbacks on key patents--the US Patent OFfice has invalidated their pinch-to-zoom and rubberband patents and a jury in Delaware held that 3 other Apple patents violate prior patents held by a consortium that includes Nokia. Apple clearly will appeal these decisions, but the fact that some patents at issue in both litigation and administrative action is beneficial for Samsung. Samsung is also trying to improve its political influence by expanding its manufacturing facility in Texas. I do believe that the Wall Street Journal is right about patent wars heating up even more in 2013. Samsung' s next big patent skirmish will be with EU regulators who began regulatory proceedings against them for refusing to license patented technology at favorable terms to EU companies.
Apple burn and die........:banghead:
Sent from my GT-N8013 using xda app-developers app
I also read LG complaining about viewing angle patent
Sent from my GT-i9001
I hope the US blocks all Samsung products!
No more iphone, ipod, ipad, macbook... the list goes on. Apple is nothing without Samsung.
Sent from my GT-N8010 using xda app-developers app
mke1973 said:
Apple is pursuing patent road blocks in the US International Trade Commission as well as federal courts. Engadget is reporting that the judge in the case before the International Trade Commission is recommending an import ban on Samsung phones and tablets, which will require work around to remedy patent infringements. The next big market with brewing patent issues for Samsung is the EU. 2013 is definitely looking like a year of escalated patent wars, which is not good news foe consumer.http://www.engadget.com/2012/12/29/itc-document-recommends-samsung-post-88-percent-value-bond/
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This has nothing to do with current devices such as the Galaxy Note 10.1, the Note 2 or the Galaxy SIII. Only devices around 2 years old. See the posts from BarryH and myself two days ago in a different thread :
BarryH_GEG said:
The bans are for devices that are a generation old and the SGS3, N2, and Note 10.1 weren't even considered. And the ITC has said s/w work-arounds are an acceptable alternative to prevent them from being banned. All of the featutres in the Note 10.1 are also included in the N2 (and then some). AT&T and T-Mobile just pushed out JB updates to their respective N2's this past week. Like Freud said, "sometimes a cigar is just a cigar."
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pwatkins said:
You guys crease me up. Just read the ruling :
The infringing devices, in Pender''s... ruling, include models of Samsung's Transform, Acclaim, Indulge and Intercept smartphones. [ONLY!!]
None of these phones afaik have been sold in the USA for maybe two years! Apple has been trying to tag on a catch-all listing nearly every device that Samsung makes - probably including Air Conditioners and Refigerators! None of these additional devices are covered.
Even these extremely limited recommendations, from a single Judge, also must be first approved by the six-member ITC Commission and then go to presidential approval.
In the meantime one of the four Apple patents covered by the ruling has already been invalidated by the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office and they are re-examining several other Apple patents.
And you think that this will affect anything for years and years - if ever!
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I saw this on fb this "mourning" and thought I'd share...
http://www.xda-developers.com/andro...rs/ShsH+(xda-developers)&utm_content=FaceBook
Re: The stupidity of our government and the new rules regarding unlocking our dev
Dude the united States government can blow me. Point blank. **** all their "new and proposed laws" I'm going to do whatever the hell I want because last time I checked I had freedom. This isn't ****ing north Korea. As you can tell I hate our lying ass president Barack Obama and wished someone would take his ass out of office. And the rest of your crooked government
Sent from my PG06100 using Tapatalk 2
It's disgusting our government continues to repeatedly enact laws to promote/preserve the bottom dollar of large corporations like this; this promotes monopolies, crushes diversity and goes against the very idea of free Enterprise. How can one alter, root, replace, enhance aspects of a devices firmware and it is perfectly legal, but when it allows the user to switch carriers it becomes illegal? The very idea that this is a copyright issue is ridiculous.
BigSplit said:
It's disgusting our government continues to repeatedly enact laws to promote/preserve the bottom dollar of large corporations like this; this promotes monopolies, crushes diversity and goes against the very idea of free Enterprise. How can one alter, root, replace, enhance aspects of a devices firmware and it is perfectly legal, but when it allows the user to switch carriers it becomes illegal? The very idea that this is a copyright issue is ridiculous.
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Well the whole idea is kinda idiotic anyways... if you get a phone from the carrier you are under contract... the contract is what shields the carrier from loss. What is the purpose of the law other than them being greedy.
But what about the users like me who buy all the phones they use at MSRP? I pay full retail to take my devices with me. With sprint alone I dropped around 1300 on 2 original evos and an evo shift.
So would any of this concern me? Since I did not get a subsidized price on anything?
strapped365 said:
But what about the users like me who buy all the phones they use at MSRP? I pay full retail to take my devices with me. With sprint alone I dropped around 1300 on 2 original evos and an evo shift.
So would any of this concern me? Since I did not get a subsidized price on anything?
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People like you are the only ones this law is really effecting... And its definitely not in a positive way.
Actually it affects all of us. Because believe it or not we all pay Full price for our devices. Because whether they say it or not. We are all paying for our devices. The Carriers have that all factored into the cost of your plan. You never actually get a discount. They make sure that there is at least a 300% mark up on every device.
prboy1969 said:
Actually it affects all of us. Because believe it or not we all pay Full price for our devices. Because whether they say it or not. We are all paying for our devices. The Carriers have that all factored into the cost of your plan. You never actually get a discount. They make sure that there is at least a 300% mark up on every device.
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Yes but if someone pays full price up front they should be able to take the phone where they want No matter what... Any gsm across the world can do that providing the networks are compatible.. it really hurts travelers too
Lol go to Canada or Mexico unlock it and come back... they surely didn't make it illegal to possess an unlocked device... loophole
prboy1969 said:
Actually it affects all of us. Because believe it or not we all pay Full price for our devices. Because whether they say it or not. We are all paying for our devices. The Carriers have that all factored into the cost of your plan. You never actually get a discount. They make sure that there is at least a 300% mark up on every device.
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Well 1299.97 plus tax should allow me to do whatever in the hell I want with my devices.
I wonder how much more popular Google GSM Unlocked Nexus devices are going to become .
strapped365 said:
Well 1299.97 plus tax should allow me to do whatever in the hell I want with my devices.
I wonder how much more popular Google GSM Unlocked Nexus devices are going to become .
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Lol true
Its just at&t and those people complaining about it because in the end, google really doesnt care
I still feel its unnecessary to do this, theyre just trying to lock in customers as much as they can and prevent them from finding better deals where they might pay less monthly or have better coverage in their specific area for less
Sent from my PG06100
strapped365 said:
Well 1299.97 plus tax should allow me to do whatever in the hell I want with my devices.
I wonder how much more popular Google GSM Unlocked Nexus devices are going to become .
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Click to collapse
Sony and Nokia sell gsm unlocked phones too... most of the international gsm companies do. Again showing how dumb our government is.
bilgerryan said:
Sony and Nokia sell gsm unlocked phones too... most of the international gsm companies do. Again showing how dumb our government is.
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Click to collapse
Biggest disappointment is that while the law allowed for devices to be unlocked, exemptions were made or devices ignored. You couldn't unlock an iPhone, or at least they sure didn't want you to. Maybe I have my facts confused though.
Eh this does bother me so much because all you have to do is get permission to use the phone on another carrier. I HIGHLY doubt they will tell you no. And if they do... Well this is XDA, we do what we want to do. Guides will still be posted on flashing to other carriers. They can't stop us
Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk 2
Update:
If as many people as possible could sign this, it would be incredibly awesome.
https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/make-unlocking-cell-phones-legal/1g9KhZG7
Sent from my PG06100
CNexus said:
Update:
If as many people as possible could sign this, it would be incredibly awesome.
https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/make-unlocking-cell-phones-legal/1g9KhZG7
Sent from my PG06100
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I signed it today and forwarded the link.
Look at the petition results... http://www.xda-developers.com/andro...-developers/ShsH+(xda-developers)&utm_content
The article on Android Police HERE might interest a few of you.
Email I received this morning:
It's Time to Legalize Cell Phone Unlocking
By R. David Edelman, Senior Advisor for Internet, Innovation, & Privacy
Thank you for sharing your views on cell phone unlocking with us through your petition on our We the People platform. Last week the White House brought together experts from across government who work on telecommunications, technology, and copyright policy, and we're pleased to offer our response.
The White House agrees with the 114,000+ of you who believe that consumers should be able to unlock their cell phones without risking criminal or other penalties. In fact, we believe the same principle should also apply to tablets, which are increasingly similar to smart phones. And if you have paid for your mobile device, and aren't bound by a service agreement or other obligation, you should be able to use it on another network. It's common sense, crucial for protecting consumer choice, and important for ensuring we continue to have the vibrant, competitive wireless market that delivers innovative products and solid service to meet consumers' needs.
This is particularly important for secondhand or other mobile devices that you might buy or receive as a gift, and want to activate on the wireless network that meets your needs -- even if it isn't the one on which the device was first activated. All consumers deserve that flexibility.
The White House's position detailed in this response builds on some critical thinking done by the President's chief advisory Agency on these matters: the Department of Commerce's National Telecommunications and Information Administration (NTIA). For more context and information on the technical aspects of the issue, you can review the NTIA's letter to the Library of Congress' Register of Copyrights (.pdf), voicing strong support for maintaining the previous exception to the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA) for cell phone carrier unlocking.
Contrary to the NTIA's recommendation, the Librarian of Congress ruled that phones purchased after January of this year would no longer be exempted from the DMCA. The law gives the Librarian the authority to establish or eliminate exceptions -- and we respect that process. But it is also worth noting the statement the Library of Congress released today on the broader public policy concerns of the issue. Clearly the White House and Library of Congress agree that the DMCA exception process is a rigid and imperfect fit for this telecommunications issue, and we want to ensure this particular challenge for mobile competition is solved.
So where do we go from here?
The Obama Administration would support a range of approaches to addressing this issue, including narrow legislative fixes in the telecommunications space that make it clear: neither criminal law nor technological locks should prevent consumers from switching carriers when they are no longer bound by a service agreement or other obligation.
We also believe the Federal Communications Commission (FCC), with its responsibility for promoting mobile competition and innovation, has an important role to play here. FCC Chairman Genachowski today voiced his concern about mobile phone unlocking (.pdf), and to complement his efforts, NTIA will be formally engaging with the FCC as it addresses this urgent issue.
Finally, we would encourage mobile providers to consider what steps they as businesses can take to ensure that their customers can fully reap the benefits and features they expect when purchasing their devices.
We look forward to continuing to work with Congress, the wireless and mobile phone industries, and most importantly you -- the everyday consumers who stand to benefit from this greater flexibility -- to ensure our laws keep pace with changing technology, protect the economic competitiveness that has led to such innovation in this space, and offer consumers the flexibility and freedoms they deserve.
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Well that certainly sounds good. I remain sceptical though. It is our government talking here...
You guys should check the article in the link below. Might be a step in the right direction.
http://www.androidpolice.com/2013/0...locking-phones-for-interoperability-purposes/
i hope the One really helps HTC, but the delays are doing no favours
http://uk.reuters.com/article/2013/04/08/us-htc-earnings-idUKBRE93706620130408
I don't know what the fuss is all about. They are always posting profits. Less profits yes, but they are always in the black. Many companies go for years posting losses quarter after quarter. HTC has no problems as long as they are in profit each quarter.
Would now be a great time to buy stocks in HTC?
simba2585 said:
i hope the One really helps HTC, but the delays are doing no favours
http://uk.reuters.com/article/2013/04/08/us-htc-earnings-idUKBRE93706620130408
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I hope this thread gets locked, threads likes this really do XDA no favours.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2
aydc said:
I don't know what the fuss is all about. They are always posting profits. Less profits yes, but they are always in the black. Many companies go for years posting losses quarter after quarter. HTC has no problems as long as they are in profit each quarter.
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Public companies like HTC serve their shareholders who buy stock in a company because they feel that stock is going to appreciate over time increasing the size of their investment (profit). Companies reward investors by growing sales, profit margins, and generating cash that's used for reinvestment to further their growth and increasing the market capitalization of the company. Doing so makes their stock appreciate which rewards the investors that placed their faith in them. This is HTC’s 2-year stock performance as of today.
In February, HTC revised their Q1 2013 guidance down to a level so low that it spooked analysts to the point there was a run on HTC's stock that triggered stop-sales on the TW exchange it's listed on (twice) because the amount of volume being sold and the stock's price decline triggered electronic safeguards. The revenue guidance HTC provided for Q1 that caused the stock fall was between NT$50 billion and NT$60 billion. Those are numbers provided by HTC less than eight weeks ago. The number they actually posted today was NT$42.8 billion. So not only did they miss the low-end of their own guidance they've demonstrated an inability to forecast their business. The latter's actually more troubling to analysts than the miss in revenue. And keep in mind that revenue is accounted for when devices are shipped to resellers; not when they are purchased by end consumers. So HTC's shipping rate is what caused the miss, not the sales or popularity of the One. And that they didn't know within an eight week span how deep their component issues were causing them to issue erroneous guidance is indeed troubling.
Operating margin (profit) was 1/10 of 1% of revenue for the first three months of 2013. You don't have to be a finance expert to know that's not sustainable. And the One's delay has put it right up against the launch of the SGS4 which will be accompanied by wider distribution and Samsung's gazillion dollar marketing budget. Apple's also launching the iP5S and possibly a lower-priced device in June according to analyst's speculation. Neither of those things is going to be good for HTC's full-year revenue. The analysts expect HTC to benefit from the One's sales in Q2 but that they'll decline again in the remaining quarters of the year. 30 out of 33 analysts have a "sell" rating on HTC's stock.
Their financial position was 25% better than today last August when the Taiwanese government began talks of bailing HTC out rather than letting them fail. HTC cannot continue to exist the way it does today and a single positive quarter based on the success of single device can't reverse their fortunes enough to change that. So it's highly unlikely they'll go out of business but some type of government intervention accompanied by a restructuring or merger or JV with another company are pretty much a given.
With stiff competition from Apple and Samsung, HTC has posted some less than stellar numbers the past few quarters. The company is still profitable, but its decline in sales and revenue have contributed significantly to Taiwan’s five months of decline in exports which saw a drop in July of 11.6% from a year earlier. HTC may be about to receive help from the Taiwanese government as it looks to turn its fortunes around after slipping away in the smartphone market recently. According to the Commercial Times, Taiwan's Central Bank Governor, Perng Fai-nan raised the issue during a meeting with government officials, suggesting it stepped in and offered assistance to the manufacturer. Perng noted that HTC's declining sales had had a knock-on effect with Taiwan's exports, which have also witnessed a decline in recent months. During the meeting, Perng apparently went on to say that the financial status of HTC is "of vital importance to the islands' gross domestic product". The Taiwanese government is taking this issue seriously, with an unnamed official reportedly saying the Ministry of Economic Affairs is already considering various ways to help out HTC.
http://www.techradar.com/us/news/ph...htc-could-receive-government-bail-out-1091781These numbers show the production shortage really is that bad, and my sense is that it won’t get much better in the second quarter because many of those issues continue,” said Dennis Chan, an analyst at Yuanta Securities Co. in Taipei, who recommends selling the stock. “For smartphones, timing is everything and the delay means they lose that timing.”
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-...w-profit-after-latest-smartphone-delayed.htmlProfit is likely to recover in the second quarter as HTC One sales increase, said Daiwa Securities analyst Birdy Lu. The company has been touting the camera's performance in low light, and plans to more than double advertising spending under a new marketing chief. "HTC's whole schedule was thrown into disarray because of the HTC One, which meant it didn't have the revenue coming in but still had a lot of fixed costs," Mr. Lu said. "There will be some improvement this quarter in terms of the bottom line, but they still face a lot of competition."
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB100...38196.html?mod=WSJ_hp_LEFTWhatsNewsCollection
htc is dying.
i bet samsung and apple are eager to buy htc for their patents and maybe blueprints
I'm sitting here fully perplexed
some of you call me HTC biggest fanboy
and yet in all honestly i dont care their financial woes
yes if they go away it will be a loss to the smartphone especially since they are the most unique OEM
but really why should I care all I want is the bloody device and 18months of support, the quality of the device and the software is guaranteed so why should I care about their money again?
honestly if anything Samsung's monopoly and money making is not really reflecting in better quality to the product
I prefer a zealous challenged OEM over a relaxed arrogant one
hamdir said:
some of you call me HTC biggest fanboy
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Click to collapse
But always in a "good" way. You've helped more people than 90% of those on XDA (including me).
honestly if anything Samsung's monopoly and money making is not really reflecting in better quality to the product
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Being huge doesn't guarantee continued success; at least not at the same historic velocity. Look what Samsung's success has done to Apple's stock. And with more cash in the bank than 2/3 of the world's countries one can't say Apple's not successful. Samsung can't get lazy because if they do there are too many people gunning for them. If Apple does introduce a lower-cost iPhone it's going to kick Samsung in the nuts. And both ZTE and Huawei are gunning for them too. Samsung's only got one target in its sites; Apple. What the other Android device makers do with a collective 30% market share between them doesn't concern them.
If you think about it, there are too many Android manufacturers right now. None on their own is going to catch Samsung because their lead is too wide. If a couple fail or merge leaving Samsung and two strong financially healthy Android competitors it would be much better for competition than having four vendors with fewer than 10% of the market each. The market controls smartphone selling prices. Samsung’s volume makes their component costs significantly lower than their competitors. None of those competitors can continue to offer the same features as Samsung at the same prices and maintain a decent level of profitability on far lower volume. So a “boutique” smartphone maker would end up selling a device with similar functionality at a higher retail price to sustain their profitability. I don’t think that would work that well in such a competitive market. As applies in the jungle, only the strong survive.
cjm1979 said:
I hope this thread gets locked, threads likes this really do XDA no favours.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2
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What's wrong with discussion ?
How is xda affected ?
BarryH_GEG said:
So a “boutique” smartphone maker would end up selling a device with similar functionality at a higher retail price to sustain their profitability. I don’t think that would work that well in such a competitive market. As applies in the jungle, only the strong survive.
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i would love HTC to go this way. willing to pay the premium
i think Sony and HTC are a good match but i dont know how that would work
anyway everyone is downsizing HTC than they really are, regardless of the profits/stock situation, its not really as "wallstreet" black or white as you guys think, its a lot more grey, the same can be said to many of the Asian brands as well
there is definitely a remedy being cooked for their problem but its not really what we are expecting
Great learning on this thread ,its great
@Barry,(didn't wanna quote the whole thesis), you're right, the HTC One success alone cannot bail HTC out of its financial trouble, especially with the iPhone and Galaxy S 4 coming out in Q3 and Q2 respectively. Either they're going to have to be bailed out or merge with another company. 2.8 million in profit is an All time low for HTC. The smartphone industry is a tough one, if you even have 1 off year, it will cost you big time. HTC had 2 off years.
I'm pretty optimistic about HTC with all the positive press on the One. I myself have owned every generation iphone and it took the HTC One to break the cycle. I have another friend who has always owned iphones and he just purchased four HTC Ones for his family and friends. This thing is going to be a dark horse. Samsung won't know what hit them.
grukko said:
I'm pretty optimistic about HTC with all the positive press on the One. I myself have owned every generation iphone and it took the HTC One to break the cycle. I have another friend who has always owned iphones and he just purchased four HTC Ones for his family and friends. This thing is going to be a dark horse. Samsung won't know what hit them.
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I'm in the same boat. Just want my Asda order now !!!
BarryH_GEG said:
Public companies like HTC serve their shareholders who buy stock in a company because they feel that stock is going to appreciate over time increasing the size of their investment (profit). Companies reward investors by growing sales, profit margins, and generating cash that's used for reinvestment to further their growth and increasing the market capitalization of the company. Doing so makes their stock appreciate which rewards the investors that placed their faith in them. This is HTC’s 2-year stock performance as of today.
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Then what would you say about Apple who have lost about $300 Billion worth of shareholder money in this time?
Or the fact that Galaxy S4 is being seen as Samsung's iphone5 moment! Apple played safe with iphone5 and historically it has broken sales records. Apple is flush with money, yet financial markets are unimpressed. Apple is no more innovative!
Samsung has done nothing with S4 but ape Apple iphone5 (that is to say play it safe). Interestingly the day S4 was announced by Samsung, Apple stock rose and investors cheered as S4 is NOT seen as much of a big threat to Apple as it could have been!
HTC is not gonna vanish anytime soon. just chillax. my company has been in huge losses for four years straight (we suppy chipsets to mobile makers) and yet are there (while we are much much smaller than even HTC). somebody always bails you out. Or otherwise also, all it takes is one blockbuster product and you are back in the game. Sony got that with XZ (they were in losses earlier). Very few companies are making any money in this business anyway but they are all hanging in there.
I don't know. I'm reconsidering what to buy after this.
joslicx said:
Then what would you say about Apple who have lost about $300 Billion worth of shareholder money in this time?
Or the fact that Galaxy S4 is being seen as Samsung's iphone5 moment! Apple played safe with iphone5 and historically it has broken sales records. Apple is flush with money, yet financial markets are unimpressed. Apple is no more innovative!
Samsung has done nothing with S4 but ape Apple iphone5 (that is to say play it safe). Interestingly the day S4 was announced by Samsung, Apple stock rose and investors cheered as S4 is NOT seen as much of a big threat to Apple as it could have been!
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The difference is that apple and Samsung have big budgets and lots of money, they can afford some type of loss, HTC cannot. You said it yourself, apple played it safe with the iPhone 5 and yet they broke records sales. Do you think apple care about the lack of innovation? No, not as long as they keep selling they don't. For Samsung, the S4 is getting more preorders than the S3 in the UK alone, those are good signs and remember again both companies have lots of money and are coming from big quarters.
It isn't about them though, it's about HTC. They have a great product with the One, everybody in the tech world recognizes it so there is no doubt. The question is is it too late?
At the end of the day it will be Samsung and apple left. Rest will fold and fail. Of course Google will continue to release nexus line which is stock but always mediocre hardware.
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sabre31 said:
At the end of the day it will be Samsung and apple left. Rest will fold and fail. Of course Google will continue to release nexus line which is stock but always mediocre hardware.
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Lets pray that it doesn't happen, it would really make me sick. I love choices and competition.
HTC and Sony should stay alive. Sony will be for sure because they're a strong company. Can't say the same about htc. It'd be a shame if they fail.
http://mobile.theverge.com/2013/7/30/4570490/htc-q3-2013-guidance-first-loss-on-record
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such threads are not needed, we have been seeing them for years now
besides the verge always adds drama on top here is the proper press release
http://www.htc.com/www/about/newsroom/2013/2013-07-30-htc-reports-2013-second-quarter-results/
Taipei, Taiwan – July 30, 2013 – HTC Corporation (the Company, TWSE: 2498), a global leader in mobile innovation and design, today announced consolidated results for the Company and its subsidiaries for the second quarter of 2013.
2Q 2013 Results
HTC posted quarterly revenue of NT$70.7 billion, with gross margin of 23.2 % and operating margin of 1.5%. Net profit and EPS were NT$1.25 billion and NT$1.50, respectively.
“My leadership team continues to focus on execution,” said Peter Chou, CEO of HTC. “We are seeing expected results as we fill the channels and meet demand for the new HTC One. As we broaden our focus to include a new member of the HTC One family, the recently announced One mini, we are looking forward to delivering great products and results in 2H.”
HTC announced key appointments, including Jack Yang to president of South Asia, Sirpa Ikola to senior director of marketing for South Asia, and Lorain Wong to vice president of global PR.
As manufacturing ramped up, the US saw sequential growth in 2Q, as well as expansion in retail channels. EMEA saw renewed strength in major Western European markets and emerging countries.
Progress was observed across Asia. HTC gained market share in Taiwan, showing an improved presence in Hong Kong and warm reception of its products by consumers in Japan. In China, sales of HTC’s high-end models improved, while competition at the mid-tier and affordable intensified. In South Asia, the improvement of key operator relationships provides optimism about the region.
3Q 2013 Outlook
The Company’s outlook for the second quarter of 2013 is as follows:
- 3Q revenue is expected to be in the range of NT$50bn to NT$60bn
- Gross profit margin is expected to be in the range of 18% to 21%
- Operating margin is expected to be in the range of 0% to -8%
The new HTC One has performed well in the market, better than that of our hero products for the same period last year. We aim to extend the momentum as we enter into the second half of 2013. The new HTC One has also helped the company establish strong brand awareness and received numerous accolades as the world’s best smart phone. With the help of HTC One, we have regained superphone market share across major markets including China.
We also have plans underway to launch a range of innovative and competitive mid-tier products in the coming months. We hope to regain momentum and market share in these segments in Q4. This will address our challenge of mid-tier products competiveness
Our overall gross margin has been impacted by the relatively higher cost structure, lack of economy of scale and certain provisions needed to facilitate the clearance of aging products in the channel. Actions have been taken and we expect to see improvement in Q4
We are also optimizing our organization, including the improvement of management efficiency and effectiveness.
People, innovations, and technology are the core assets of HTC. We will continue to invest in innovations and technology, as well as retaining and rewarding our best talents. We look forward to a brighter future for HTC and continue to delight our customers with the best and most exciting products
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you can see clearly that they state, the One is getting them more revenue then last year flagships, but they fall short on the low end side of sales, also they have extra expenses for this quarter causing the predicted loss waste of profit
- 3Q revenue is expected to be in the range of NT$50bn to NT$60bn
- Gross profit margin is expected to be in the range of 18% to 21%
- Operating margin is expected to be in the range of 0% to -8%
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That's a pretty optimistic viewpoint you posted @hamdir. Almost makes it seem like HTC has turned the corner and poised for a rebound (which we all know is far from the truth). Here's Reuters not so optimistic perspective.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/07/30/us-htc-guidance-idUSBRE96T0B920130730
jlevy73 said:
That's a pretty optimistic viewpoint you posted @hamdir. Almost makes it seem like HTC has turned the corner and poised for a rebound (which we all know is far from the truth). Here's Reuters not so optimistic perspective.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/07/30/us-htc-guidance-idUSBRE96T0B920130730
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what view? i posted HTC's own press release, they explain pretty clearly that their old inventory and lack of mid / low range competition will cause the predict lack of gross margins, tons of positive in the press release as well such as the HTC One performance and their improvements in Asian markets
meanwhile HTC is hard at work for the next flagship while you guys are busy with their profit or losses
does anyone still follows how much Nokia or Sony are loosing? or when they rebound?
Financial up and downs is normal for any company in my opinion and as far as im concerned it's non of my business, i have an amazing smartphone thanks to them and i don't need to contemplate their finance
here is something interesting from your own link
"Even a hero product can't save them," he said, adding that a partnership with another firm - a possibility CEO Peter Chou has said he would look at - was one of the few strong options open to HTC.
Although HTC is expected to soon launch the HTC One Mini, Samsung and Apple are also likely to announce their own new offerings later this year. A planned marketing blitz, which includes enlisting Robert Downey Jr. for a reported $12 million to star in its ad campaigns, is expected to weigh on profit margins.
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---------- Post added at 02:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:45 PM ----------
more details here
http://focustaiwan.tw/search/201307300029.aspx?q=htc
HTC said its overall gross margin has been impacted by the relatively higher cost structure, lack of economy of scale and certain provisions needed to facilitate the clearance of aging products in the channel.
Peter Chou, chief executive officer of HTC, said the company is taking action to reduce the cost of some key components used in its products, such as displays and mechanical parts, and that the improvements will be apparent in the fourth quarter.
In addition, HTC plans to launch a new range of mid-tier phones in the late third quarter or early fourth quarter to increase its economy of scale and leverage its product portfolio, Chou said.
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"We are bearish on the company in the longer term as it continues to struggle in the premium smartphone segment despite having a good product, while it remains uncompetitive in the low-end segment," Cheng said, who set a price target of NT$145 on the stock.
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Sony and HTC merge and we're gonna have a good time.
I Am Marino said:
Sony and HTC merge and we're gonna have a good time.
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My dream
It's alot of over analyzing but it sure makes me worry. They can't even seem to pump put timely updates at this point... Even to their developer and GE editions. Can't blame the carriers holding up the updates on those...
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hamdir said:
Meanwhile HTC is hard at work for the next flagship while you guys are busy wit their profit or losses
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There's nothing in anything that's been posted that's even remotely uplifting regarding HTC's future.
The One's without question the best phone HTC's ever made yet revenue, profit, and market share are down.
Their guidance for Q3 is projected to be down 30% YOY and Q3 includes their projected revenue for the Mini, Max, and any other devices launching during the quarter.
HTC's cost base is f'd because of their loss of scale. They weren't a "tier one" supplier even with the One's idealistic sales goals which means they pay more than their competitors for the same components and aren't given preference when parts are in scarce supply.
Samsung's monolithic and LG/Sony have deep pocketed parent companies with diverse product lines. Motorola's owned by Google. HTC's too small to compete with those companies as well as the Chinese with their low cost base and priority in the Chinese market.
For the eighth quarter in a row we've discussed HTC's "come back" and for the eighth quarter they've posted continually crappy results with their forward guidance showing no relief. The HTC brand may continue through an acquisition but the company itself is pretty much dead. And that's not my opinion, it's the analyst's which, after these results, all have "sell" ratings on the stock.
hamdir said:
such threads are not needed, we have been seeing them for years now
besides the verge always adds drama on top here is the proper press release
http://www.htc.com/www/about/newsroom/2013/2013-07-30-htc-reports-2013-second-quarter-results/
you can see clearly that they state, the One is getting them more revenue then last year flagships, but they fall short on the low end side of sales, also they have extra expenses for this quarter causing the predicted loss waste of profit
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Than.
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HTC is definitely in trouble. The One is an insanely great device and yet they just had their worst quarter. That sounds pretty bad. And again, with the 5s, budget iphone, note 3 and others I don't know how htc can turn this around.
Like Barry said htc is too small of a company at the end of the day. Sony, apple, LG, Samsung are huge companies that have more resources and you need deep pockets to compete. A merge with another company is almost certain at this point.
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Not to be redundant, but this one from Engadget has a positive tone to it.
HTC: the One is selling better than last year's hero products, but next quarter may see a loss
the previous Q2 profit results were good (reported last month)
and these are Q3 projections, considering the stated reasons
i never discussed a come back, all i said companies for a long time can survive with such up and down, we have tons of examples
come to think of it, Asus and HTC merge makes perfect Sense
Same country, Asus sucks in branding and worldwide distribution of it's products, their smartphone side isn't doing so great but they rock in pc and tablets, while HTC is specializes in smartphones exclusively
Asus only sucks in availability of their mobile stuff though. All their PC parts are available every part of the world. If they applied the same resources with the same enthusiasm + a HTC merger, it would be awesomely awesome beyond awesomeness.
hamdir said:
the previous Q2 profit results were good (reported last month)
and these are Q3 projections, considering the stated reasons
i never discussed a come back, all i said companies for a long time can survive with such up and down, we have tons of examples
come to think of it, Asus and HTC merge makes perfect Sense
Same country, Asus sucks in branding and worldwide distribution of it's products, their smartphone side isn't doing so great but they rock in pc and tablets, while HTC is specializes in smartphones exclusively
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Q2 was awful compared to last year's Q2 which is the most relevant comparison. Q-2-Q comparisons don't take in to account seasonality and other trends. And aging inventory is corporate speak for we overestimated demand and/or the competition is eating our lunch. Microsoft writing down $1B because of the Surface's lackluster sales is a good example. What's going to change for HTC? The One's not helping much and the Max and Mini launch is factored in to their Q3 quidance which projects a loss. Their previous focus on the high-end has made them a late comer in emerging markets. Even there their lack of scale makes an identically spec'd HTC phone more expensive to build than their competitors phones. So the high-end (the One) didn't save them and with limited distribution, higher component prices, and no brand loyalty in the price-focused lower tiers it's hard to envision them making much headway there. All the drivel about a bright future is coming from Peter Chou who's decisions and direction got HTC in to the mess they are currently in. His words kind of remind me of "I'll gladly pay you tomorrow for two hamburgers today." And the impact of their financial condition is already being felt by their customers; ask a One S owner.
HTC would survive just like BlackBerry. Would take a very long time to get back on track. I hope mini and ultra boost up their prifits
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Will be rooting for this underdog!
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BarryH_GEG said:
Q2 was awful compared to last year's Q2 which is the most relevant comparison. Q-2-Q comparisons don't take in to account seasonality and other trends. And aging inventory is corporate speak for we overestimated demand and/or the competition is eating our lunch. Microsoft writing down $1B because of the Surface's lackluster sales is a good example. What's going to change for HTC? The One's not helping much and the Max and Mini launch is factored in to their Q3 quidance which projects a loss. Their previous focus on the high-end has made them a late comer in emerging markets. Even there their lack of scale makes an identically spec'd HTC phone more expensive to build than their competitors phones. So the high-end (the One) didn't save them and with limited distribution, higher component prices, and no brand loyalty in the price-focused lower tiers it's hard to envision them making much headway there. All the drivel about a bright future is coming from Peter Chou who's decisions and direction got HTC in to the mess they are currently in. His words kind of remind me of "I'll gladly pay you tomorrow for two hamburgers today." And the impact of their financial condition is already being felt by their customers; ask a One S owner.
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mateeeeeee the One S is well documented already, the reason for the update drop is that Qualcomm stopped supporting snapdragon 3 and hence didn't provide the drivers for 4.2.2
the One S s4 will most likely receive it, as football said the work restarted on the OTA
also this story was confirmed by shen
I'm done here, it was my mistake to enter the financial discussions again
peace
Blackberry would be the one to fall before HTC. HTC, will come back around..
Sammy and Apple love the attention. Ads Ads Ads Ads. It sinks into peoples heads, that these phones are the latest a and greatest that other phones are garbage to them. All in marketing control.. That's why you see more 15 yr old girls with iPhone more and more everyday. Its all about how you advertise. More advertisement the more you will get out of it. $$$
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Trouble Trouble
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