Network-utilities on HD2? - HD2 General

I am looking for something like "tcpdump", "ethereal", "wireshark" for using on HD2. Any network sniffer, do not even need to decode packets (probably simple and good thing - produce pcap packets, which i can analyze later, using tools on desktop).
Any ideas about that?
Other simple tools like "traceroute", "tracepath", "netstat" would be usefull too.
Reason - need to debug some portable apps, track certs, etc. Sniffing on wi-fi router is possible, but much harder to do, sniffing on 3G - impossible for me ;-)
Thanks!

http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=404545

Oh, at least - ping/traceroute, thanks!
Any ideas about network sniffer?

http://www.airscanner.com/products/sniffer/
edit - just tried it and real tiny menus, not suited to our nice fat screen.

Yeah, that would be solution, but without stylus - almost impossible to use.
Even console version (full keyboard-only input) would be better ;-)

ABLomas said:
...
Other simple tools like "traceroute", "tracepath", "netstat" would be usefull too.
...
Thanks!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
hi, for general use i like the cambridge tools . the are handy for a technican like me.
regards mad

Thanks!
Not so cheap, but seems at least sniffer is working.
But - similar problem - almost impossible to use without stylus (or, font size is configurable?)....
Anyway, better than nothing ;-)

Related

WLAN Analyzer...

Has anybody come across a good network analyzer that works on the Universal? I have tried several but to no avail...
Thanks in advance...
Cyb
Read my signature, should be enough.
If not, search for ministumbler in the universal forum.
WiFiFoFum, or Hitchhiker. Both work beautifully on my spv m5000.
Hey Helio
If you looked at my question I am looking for a network analyzer not just a LAN recognizer. I have WIFIFOFUM running on my machine... I want to go further and analyze network traffic. Not just find an unprotected Network. But I appreciate the jab about being a noob and to use the search function.
Cyb
glad someone does.
so, you are after a proggy that can monitor the data being transfered? or to break wep keys? or to just generally keep usage statistics?
monitor the data...
Yes after a proggy that can monitor the data being xferred. Tried some various that claim they can but none functioned on the Universal. Any clue?
Cyb
I have tried vxsniffer with no success on jasjar.
"I Hate n00bs Who Don't Use The "Search" Button.... "
I hate 'clever' twats who think they know it all.
The search feature on this forum is rubbish.
ArgyleMoss said:
"I Hate n00bs Who Don't Use The "Search" Button.... "
I hate 'clever' twats who think they know it all.
The search feature on this forum is rubbish.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I really don't want to inflame things further, however, don't all search engines depend upon the keywords they're asked to search on?
I believe mind reading search engines have yet to be invented! :wink:
P.S: Not a "'clever' twxt", just one of those mutually trying to help each other maximize their devices. :lol:
just to check, is the universal capable of breaking wep keys?
Yes - but do you really -want- to suck up many megabytes of traffic, and then sit around with your universal as it calculates for hours on end to crack it ?
I *guess* if you do, then you must have some real financial or data-wise interest in cracking somebody's WEP %)
Back on track...
To put this thread back on track... Does anyone know of a wlan analyzer for the Universal?
Thanks!
Cyb
RE
Have you try IP Dashboard Monitor? Here:-
http://www.pocketgear.com/software_detail.asp?id=9463
I tried several products to monitor connections similar to what Ethereal does, none of them would work until I found "PhatNet", which works like a charm on my O2 XDA IIi (HTC Alpine):
http://pocketland.de/product.php?SID=5ee8e3a820f3a547b72430ea224f8472&prod_id=17476
Don't let the german page put you off, just click on the .exe or .cab download link. The software is in english. It's a 15 day full version trial.
Not sure if it will work on the Universal too, but worth a try.
hth,
Tin
Works or appears to work on the T-mobile 1.20.32 WWE ROM, but I believe the problem maybe that Phatware nolonger offers this program for sale, and so it's not possible to get the registration code.
http://www.socketcom.com/product/SW1221-596.asp
work super
Phatnet and vxsniffer
Cyberslinger,
the above references are the only ones I came accross after searching for a sniffer and protocol analyzer (heliosfa, maybe you could google for "protocol or packet analyzer"...).
Never had the opportunity to use them.
I suspect these two will sniff only layer 3 and will no give you a real promiscuous mode on 802.11 if that's what you're after...
I even searched if ethereal had been ported to familiar for my Ipaq 5550 and couldn't find it.
I'm still using my airopeek/airmagnet...
Cheers,
Hal.

Can I control my HTPC using my Wizard?

I have a HTPC (without a mouse or kb) plugged into my TV, and while I have a remote (IMON 2.4G DT) the mouse control isn't too great. What I would like to do is use my Wizard as an input device, primarily for the mouse but probably also for keyboard
I thought Total Input sounded promising, but I have two issues with that:
1. 'Server is unreachable' - which presumably is just a matter of configuration of the network, and hopefully I should be able to sort that, and
2. (and this is the bit I really need help with) TI requires the NET Framework 1.1, a consequence of which is the PC can no longer boot straight into the default desktop, but now stops at the 'Select a user' screen.... where you click WITH A MOUSE which user you want to log on as
So, my question is, does anyone have any novel solutions or can suggest a piece of software that will alow me to do what I want?
I really don't want another mouse and keyboard cluttering up the living room, and to be able to use the Wizard as the input device would be really handy.
You can fix that login issue by Clicking 'Start' > 'Run'
Then type "Control userpasswords2" (without quots)
Then set the default user
Great stuff ! Thanks for that hiazle, I'll give it a try
Is there anyone out there who has got this app working and how did you find it? Does it work well?
Mellon said:
Great stuff ! Thanks for that hiazle, I'll give it a try
Is there anyone out there who has got this app working and how did you find it? Does it work well?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Have you got a link to it? I've not seen it before, and it sound like it might be handy...
http://www.xronox.com/XronoxSite/TotalInputInfo.aspx
which is free, but they also do an all-singing all dancing version which isn't, but you can get a trial.

Universal as wireless accespoint?

I travel by train pretty much, and I have a HTC Universal. Since I can make use of UMTS i was wondering if i could let my universal act as an accespoint, so that i can use it as router for my Nintendo DS to play online in the train. Is there some way to do this?
Its possible, using a java program to add router software to your universal. Try googling it a bit.
Surur
Hey if you find something keep us posted will ya?
i can only find lots of Telnet clients and tutorials how to connect your ppc to a router ~ ___~);;' no luck yet.
oops i cried too early Xp I found it
http://www.pocketpcmag.com/blogs/index.php?blog=3&p=453&more=1
The first part says:
Just get the HTTPSnoopProxy.class file, copy it to, say, the root of your "access point" Pocket PC and get a decent Java Virtual Machine (I recommend CrEme 4.00 because of its superior speed, reliability and moderate memory consumption).
Seems like only web surfing will be allowed.
I got an idea when i saw this line in the link you provided:
"To share an Internet connection, you'd need operating system-level support for connection sharing as is present in, say, the desktop Windows"
I bet Linux has this. And since some smart people here has managed to get linux running on the Universal this might just be possible.
Is there anyone reading this with some linux knowlage that knows how to set this up in linux?
maicrosoft said:
oops i cried too early Xp I found it
http://www.pocketpcmag.com/blogs/index.php?blog=3&p=453&more=1
The first part says:
Just get the HTTPSnoopProxy.class file, copy it to, say, the root of your "access point" Pocket PC and get a decent Java Virtual Machine (I recommend CrEme 4.00 because of its superior speed, reliability and moderate memory consumption).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Have you tried it? If so does it work?
I would love to setup my Jasjar as a WiFi access point using 3G, now that Vodafone IE have an unlimited 3G data plan.
How about making some sort of quasi proxy/(repeater or relay) site on a home PC?
I'm thinking of some way to pass parameters as part of the URL for port forwarding to a proxy site that forwards to the intended destination site.
would you enjoy gaming on your DS with 200msec ping times? UMTS is fast but ping times are almost as high as GPRS's...
I this this would be a great project for someone like vjay, I'd certainly pay for an app that lets me use my universal as a wireless access point.
ppeettee said:
I this this would be a great project for someone like vjay, I'd certainly pay for an app that lets me use my universal as a wireless access point.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
SAME HERE!!
I've been looking for a thread like this for a long time now and finally found it!
Otherwise I've would've made one myself with the same question..
Is there any progress about this issue?
Plz let me /us know...
kchris said:
would you enjoy gaming on your DS with 200msec ping times? UMTS is fast but ping times are almost as high as GPRS's...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, I'd say it depends on the GSM operator. My UMTS ping times (Europe) are generally (well) under 100 ms.
hlc1971 said:
SAME HERE!!
I've been looking for a thread like this for a long time now and finally found it!
Otherwise I've would've made one myself with the same question..
Is there any progress about this issue?
Plz let me /us know...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not yet. I'm, however, pushing Microsoft (in internal forums) very hard to implement REAL connection sharing - some kind of an extended version of the AKU3+ Internet Sharing tool.
Isn't internet connection sharing enabled in Crossbow?
V

VueFlo - is it sensitive?

Hi everyone,
just want to know, for the VueFlo Function, is it very sensitive to slight and mild tilts? eg if you tilt the device slowly to the sides or up and down in IE, does the screen/page move?
If it is, I plan to make an app/software for it in the future
So interested in Athena but sadly, it's not available in Aussie yet.
its pretty sensitive, only need to tilt a few degree up down left or right. trick is when to turn it on, since all movements are relative to the orientation of the device when vueflow is activated.
i find it just a gimmick for web browsing
the most obvious application would b an arcade game navigating a ball around a maze or something
or a dodgy electronic attitude indicator for an aircraft
shockboy2000 said:
its pretty sensitive, only need to tilt a few degree up down left or right. trick is when to turn it on, since all movements are relative to the orientation of the device when vueflow is activated.
i find it just a gimmick for web browsing
the most obvious application would b an arcade game navigating a ball around a maze or something
or a dodgy electronic attitude indicator for an aircraft
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok. Thanks for that quick reply.
Electronic Attitude Indicator: That's the app I wanted to make.
The sensitivity can be adjusted to low or high and several points in between. Goto settings and VueFlo to adjust sensitivity.
You can also change it work to work in IE or Opera
How do you turn off Vue Flo?? It's driving me nuts!!!
jeffharris said:
How do you turn off Vue Flo?? It's driving me nuts!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Long press the same button...the icon will disappear in the above menu bar to confirm this.
Thanks!! That does the trick ... You Rock !!!!
So any more owners with comments on this feature? Anyone find it useful?
I find it very useful for random browsing of web pages and news pages.It is easy to turn on and off,and once you get used to it, it really works quite well.
Later.........
hdbueller said:
I find it very useful for random browsing of web pages and news pages.It is easy to turn on and off,and once you get used to it, it really works quite well.
Later.........
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Great! Anyone else with thumbs up?
Packet 3 said:
Hi everyone,
just want to know, for the VueFlo Function, is it very sensitive to slight and mild tilts? eg if you tilt the device slowly to the sides or up and down in IE, does the screen/page move?
If it is, I plan to make an app/software for it in the future
So interested in Athena but sadly, it's not available in Aussie yet.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Can't you order an unlocked version and have it shipped to you?
ecsk2 said:
Great! Anyone else with thumbs up?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, it's a nice little addon to the device. I use it when I am browsing long pages or am spending a lot of time online, etc.
Wish there was a way to customize it and allow it to interact with other applications. It would be ideal for there to be a settings area where you see a list of installed applications and a check box next to each. Then if you check the box next to Word for example, you could use it with that application. I wonder if it just emulates the directional keys and if so if this can be adapted as an alternate input method. Instead of using the joystick, just write a wrapper that will accept input from Vueflow.
ltxda said:
Yes, it's a nice little addon to the device. I use it when I am browsing long pages or am spending a lot of time online, etc.
Wish there was a way to customize it and allow it to interact with other applications. It would be ideal for there to be a settings area where you see a list of installed applications and a check box next to each. Then if you check the box next to Word for example, you could use it with that application. I wonder if it just emulates the directional keys and if so if this can be adapted as an alternate input method. Instead of using the joystick, just write a wrapper that will accept input from Vueflow.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That would be the ultimate solution for using SPB Insight RSS reader!!!
Any way to use VueFLO in all apps?
Obviously, this would be ideal for scrolling through emails/contacts etc.
Unfortunately, doesn't seem like anyone has managed to access the API's/runtimes for this yet---anyone want to give it a shot?
Guys,
I really think we should bring this one back to life, what with the iphone and all its spirit levels and labyrinth games
The simplicity of windows api structure is what makes pocket pc so versatile, lets take advantage!
And there isn’t a snowball’s chance in hell I’m going to sit back and watch my co-workers tell me how crap my phone is compared to their Iphone. I’m not in the game of letting a friend's spirit go uncrushed.
Y
The Vuoflo is no different in principle to the N95's accellerometer or the Iphone's auto rotate hardware. It could be used for anything involving d-pad movement (search for NOKMOTE or ROTATEME on Youtube and you'll see what I mean).
It seems that HTC have put a lot of effort into making this hardware un-tappable. Either that or developers aren't interested in developing for it. The possibilities are great though.

(LAST CHANCE TO VOTE) need some idea's

10/16/08--
It is 12:00 central time (17:00 GMT I think) and I will close voting at 5:00pm Central Time (22:00 GMT) today. So that leaves you just 5 Hours to make your vote. I will try and post the winner up here later tonight, or you can check yourself at www.gudensoft.com.
Thanks!!
10/14/08--
First, thanks for all the great ideas. I would love to develop all of these if I could, but we have to decide on just one of the programs! So, Since I couldn't add a poll to this thread, I added it to HERE.
CLICK HERE TO VOTE!​
I bet I know which will win, but who knows? The poll will end Thursday or Friday (depending on if it is a close race or not).
Thanks
Gudy
10/10/08--
Hey guys,
I want to know what cool program, functionality, or software you would like to see created. I am a .net programmer (among others) and would like some ideas of projects you would like to see. I would like to stay away from a graphic intense program and involved games, so think functionality, usefulness, fun, etc. If I get some good ideas, I will then add a poll, vote on the best one, then build it. I will release it under my donationware license which means it will be free. Right now I am finishing up my Golf Gps program (and will continue to support), but will start this project once we get it deceided. So Shoot me your ideas!
Gudy
cool a programmer who need ideas
I have proposed something here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=434925
though it would maybe not appear as a grateful program for a developper ( a toolkit for other programs), it could be a good way to have a large diffusion through many config panels in different programs
it was just an idea
Wishlist
Hi,
Maybe simple for .NET, but for me impossible to do (without performance/battery penaulty) with basic4ppc or mortscript. And thats all I can handle.
What I would like to have is a program that enables me to execute programs when specific events occur. I'd like to know when AC power gets connected/disconnected, when there is a change in screen orientation, and when a headset gets connected/disconnected and so on. Maybe even when an internet connection through WIFI is available/unavailable.
Also I'd like to know is a specific BT device is connectable/conneted. I'd like to know if a specific WIFI network is connectable/connected. I'd like to know if I'm at a specific location. All event driven, without a performance consuming programing loop or battery drain.
Yeah, all or even some of those options would make my digital mobile life so much easier
Good luck huntig for input, if you ever get bored contact me and make me happy
Cheers,
Cacti
le_cactus said:
Hi,
Maybe simple for .NET, but for me impossible to do (without performance/battery penaulty) with basic4ppc or mortscript. And thats all I can handle.
What I would like to have is a program that enables me to execute programs when specific events occur. I'd like to know when AC power gets connected/disconnected, when there is a change in screen orientation, and when a headset gets connected/disconnected and so on. Maybe even when an internet connection through WIFI is available/unavailable.
Also I'd like to know is a specific BT device is connectable/conneted. I'd like to know if a specific WIFI network is connectable/connected. I'd like to know if I'm at a specific location. All event driven, without a performance consuming programing loop or battery drain.
Yeah, all or even some of those options would make my digital mobile life so much easier
Good luck huntig for input, if you ever get bored contact me and make me happy
Cheers,
Cacti
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Doable, handy, not a massive undertaking, I like it! Not sure I would go the .net route on something like this, as really a GUI is not required (except for settings maybe) and the overhead is large with .net. Certainly will add it to the list. Keep them coming!!
t0k0m0k0 said:
cool a programmer who need ideas
I have proposed something here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=434925
though it would maybe not appear as a grateful program for a developper ( a toolkit for other programs), it could be a good way to have a large diffusion through many config panels in different programs
it was just an idea
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This would be pretty difficult unless all of developers used the same programming langauge/technique. The only real feasable way I see this working would be developers using a common set of graphics. That would be more of a graphic undertaking instead of programming. I do like the idea, but pretty hard to impliment.
Thanks
Gudy
I would love to see something like Launchy for launching apps and files etc. as well as quick search of various types online. I'm guessing the on the fly search would require too much processing power, but if it's doable it would be awesome.
http://www.launchy.net/
I'm interested in new ideas too. I also use B4PPC.
Here's a few ideas:
-A tamagotchi, really. I was about to try this out tonight but Paint hates me.
-An app launcher like PetitLaunch on PalmOS. It's something that can pop from any app (hardware button) and when you type in extra letters it filters which apps are shown. I got this started and I can give you the files if you want.
-Pursue the development for Tippy. The source is on Nicbou.com/downloads if you want it.
-A time clock. A friend of mine notes down how long he works to make sure he doesn't get screwed and it takes him several minutes every week. He doesn't have a Pocket PC but maybe someone would be interested in something that tracks the hours you work and calculate the salary. I almost did this too.
And don't forget to share the source! If you need any help with B4PPC I'm here
galt said:
I would love to see something like Launchy for launching apps and files etc. as well as quick search of various types online. I'm guessing the on the fly search would require too much processing power, but if it's doable it would be awesome.
http://www.launchy.net/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sounds simular to the app launcher listed in the next post, seems like there is a theme going on here, you all need some sort of good app launcher.
Gudy
I'd like the Launchy features for search-on-the-fly off on board apps and file launching, but ever more for different site searches (google, maps, wikipedia, live, youtube, Amazon, etc).
N1c0_ds said:
I'm interested in new ideas too. I also use B4PPC.
Here's a few ideas:
-A tamagotchi, really. I was about to try this out tonight but Paint hates me.
-An app launcher like PetitLaunch on PalmOS. It's something that can pop from any app (hardware button) and when you type in extra letters it filters which apps are shown. I got this started and I can give you the files if you want.
-Pursue the development for Tippy. The source is on Nicbou.com/downloads if you want it.
-A time clock. A friend of mine notes down how long he works to make sure he doesn't get screwed and it takes him several minutes every week. He doesn't have a Pocket PC but maybe someone would be interested in something that tracks the hours you work and calculate the salary. I almost did this too.
And don't forget to share the source! If you need any help with B4PPC I'm here
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I had to look up tamagotchi, either I am too old, or just out of the loop to know that 10 million of these things were sold! Wow! That could be fun, but would take a pretty fancy AI type system to really be fun.
A form of Tippy is already out there, 1-calc has some of the features built in already.
A time clock could be cool, maybe a stop watch type thing perhaps?
Never used B4PPC, I mainly use C# and Visual Studio. It looks like the old Visual Basic for desktops. And last but not least, depending on the project, I more than likely will release the source.
Thanks!!! Keep'em comin!
Gudy
File Explorer Needs Help
Has anyone wanted to see a preview image in explorer's folder??
I'm not talking about fexplorerext2. although it is a fantastic enhancement; it takes a long time to load the preview immages.
I have a better idea (well, actualy MS thought of it first)
THUMBS.DB
for every folder that has an image file, this dll is created to replace cache of images. this way ou do not have to load it everytime and scale them down for thumbnail view. it is already there specificaly for each folder.
This alows the explorer to show a preview of the first image in the folder (or last created/accessed)
This is whatt I think WinMo is lacking - windows. lol.
I do not care much for the tabbed browsing. it hurts my head. too much scroling and not enough info. Icons work better I think, and waste less space on an already small screen.
well, that's been on my wishlist for a very long time. a dll that ataches to the already existing explorer making it work better.
Thanks for workin g on something new
program that makes led lights flash when phone rings would be nice
Interesting...I will have to think about how to tackle that. It would basically take a new file explorer (like total commander). This might be a bit larger than I want to tackle, but will research it a bit before ruling it out.
GUdy
bedaweed said:
program that makes led lights flash when phone rings would be nice
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This would be very difficult as not every device handles the leds the same. Also, not every device has the same leds (color, # of, etc). I think No2Chem has a int. driver, but think it is only for the titan. Would be cool though...
Gudy
a system-wide launcher dock program like that on the velocity 103 PPC..
here's the URL for the review and video of the app (and the phone)
-------------------------------------------------------------
a new top bar replacemeent/notification system much like the "android Notification Drawer" it can replace the bubble (multiple) notifications icon when you got multiple and simultaneous notifications.. and also make it finger friendly (unlike M2D, no need to go back to homescreen to check email/sms previes and also calendar events, calls, etc.. also unlike big taskbar - from the touch phones, this'll have previews)
video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7qbPa1O8Ys&eur (at the 2 minute mark) , http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hy-YcGNyJds
mjg7876 said:
Interesting...I will have to think about how to tackle that. It would basically take a new file explorer (like total commander). This might be a bit larger than I want to tackle, but will research it a bit before ruling it out.
GUdy
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Fexplorer2 is basically a dll that works with the original file explorer context menu. there is a small exe that overwrites the original explorer to make it think that the explorer"s context menu has already been opened.
in a way it maybe possible to write a new dll and two exe
EXE 1 to replace the file explorer
EXE 2 to make thumbs db
DLL (conte4xt menu that alows to view as thumbnails/list etc ; as well as launching the second exe to make a thumbsdb)
maybe you can get some help from Hou Ming, the guy that made that program before.
it would be cool if you could get some of the old emus like pocket gba and pocket snes with window 6.1 I know i would be happy.
le_cactus said:
... when AC power gets connected/disconnected, when there is a change in screen orientation, and when a headset gets connected/disconnected and ...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have been looking for a program that would stop the music (S2P, Audio Manager, or WMP etc...) if during playback of the music the headset is removed. Or for instance, when the device is on vibrate and you connect headset, it automatically changes profile to normal or something.
Another one is when I dock my device (or connect AC basically), I'd like clock program (or home screen, or photo slideshow, etc...) to come up automatically.
A feature that I miss from my older phones is the ability to set them to beep every minute during a phone call.
Now these are very general and not specific features. If you have any questions, don't hesitate to contact me!
Thank you,
SiNAra
ytsejam_ said:
a system-wide launcher dock program like that on the velocity 103 PPC..
here's the URL for the review and video of the app (and the phone)
-------------------------------------------------------------
a new top bar replacemeent/notification system much like the "android Notification Drawer" it can replace the bubble (multiple) notifications icon when you got multiple and simultaneous notifications.. and also make it finger friendly (unlike M2D, no need to go back to homescreen to check email/sms previes and also calendar events, calls, etc.. also unlike big taskbar - from the touch phones, this'll have previews)
video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7qbPa1O8Ys&eur (at the 2 minute mark) , http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hy-YcGNyJds
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The launcher on the 103 looks a lot like manilla, I know it is diff, but to me it seems mainly by presentation, not functionality. I do however like the notification top bar like that on android. Not sure how difficult taking over the top bar would be. I will do some digging.
S.V.I said:
Fexplorer2 is basically a dll that works with the original file explorer context menu. there is a small exe that overwrites the original explorer to make it think that the explorer"s context menu has already been opened.
in a way it maybe possible to write a new dll and two exe
EXE 1 to replace the file explorer
EXE 2 to make thumbs db
DLL (conte4xt menu that alows to view as thumbnails/list etc ; as well as launching the second exe to make a thumbsdb)
maybe you can get some help from Hou Ming, the guy that made that program before.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Can you give me a link to this? The only thing I could find (quickly) was sketchy at best. Still seems a bit much, but would like to know more about this Fexplorer2 thing before nuking the idea.
Gudy

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