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Microsoft reportedly plans to launch Windows Mobile 6.6 (codenamed Maldives) in February 2010 to strengthen its competitiveness against iPhone- and Android-based platforms, according to industry sources.
Sales of Windows Mobile 6.5 have been flat since the platform was launched in the fourth quarter of 2009, pushing Microsoft to bring forward Windows Mobile 6.6, which supports capacitive touchscreens, the sources noted.
However, Microsoft may now delay the launch of Windows Mobile 7 to 2011, instead of the end of 2010 as originally planned, the sources indicated.
http://www.digitimes.com/news/a20100114PD216.html
I cannot imagine how good must WM 7 be, to compensate for all the delays... WM 6,5, even with all the HTC tweaks, is still far behind Android in terms of user-friendliness and usability. Microsoft really need to work hard on WM 7 if they want to remain a leader in mobile software industry.
Bad news
Thanks for this information, Bro
See you
Franky
Here's a great article that puts together all of the current rumors:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/g/a/2010/01/14/urnidgns852573C400693880002576AC00211326.DTL
Never heard of WM 6.6, but I'm assuming it's either that or Windows Phone(WM7) that's going to be announced in February.
EDIT: Update! http://www.betanews.com/article/Microsoft-We-werent-talking-about-Windows-Mobile-7-at-CES/1263586701
Starting to have a bad feeling about WM 7 actually making it to our phones in 2010.
Am I the only one who thinks ms are trying to blow smoke up our collective bums? How can a ms rep say "we were not speaking specifically of Windows Mobile 7" about an interview they'd given and then follow it up by "not going into further detail as to which product the interview did concern.".....Wogan said it best..."Is it me?"
As it was to be expected.
Another incremental polish of a mobile os of the past.
Wasit it originally intended for those pda`s and low power mobile pc things.
But on the other hand .,. we do got the win mo 7 for the HD2. the bad thing is...
We dont know when.
And the HD2 being the first phone up to the standards of microsoft. If it would take another year for microsoft to do something and get going. Dont you thing HTC will have another range of phones ready by then ?? And moest of the customers I know got a one or two year post pay plan. and when they resign the plan contract for two years they get another phone.
Uhmm dont get me wrong here im trying to make this example.
I got the MDA vario then a tytn then a diamond and now im a happy HD2 user.
Most of the time a phone lasts about 1 or two years. .
So when the microsoft dudes are finally ready.. The HD2 will be obsolete.
And HTC told us there will be a free update available to win 7.
But after a year delay.. it seems stupid to take along HD2 in the update programm, after a year maybe more.
Or am i totally wrong here ??
Enonoid said:
So when the microsoft dudes are finally ready.. The HD2 will be obsolete.
And HTC told us there will be a free update available to win 7.
But after a year delay.. it seems stupid to take along HD2 in the update programm, after a year maybe more.
Or am i totally wrong here ??
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Click to collapse
This is totally spot-on. Even if WM7 comes out at Q3/4 of this computer, there bound to be some faster and better spec phones around to utilize the new OS and our HD2 will probably be left in our houses as lab-rats for home cookings!
I also believed that by the time WM7 really comes out, most of us would have moved on to Android with our HD2 already!
I don't see why people are dragging WM7 into this. As far as I'm concern (and anyone with the least bit of common sense), WM7 is not coming out until the end of this year/early of next year. Until then, MS could release version 6.99999 and I wouldn't give a crap.
^^ Haha well said! I just dont believe people actually think WM7 will be released just 2 months after release of WM 6.5!!
true
Well we arnt dragging win 7 in,, Its already there.
Well i know it would be to much to ask of em. the microsoft guys.
dj_ghosie said:
I also believed that by the time WM7 really comes out, most of us would have moved on to Android with our HD2 already!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I hope someone is able to port the latest Android to Leo. I just love the hardware specs of Leo (specifically the screen size) to go with Android OS. Winmo 6.6 or 6.9999 do not interest me.
Not that this helps, but I was in a Microsoft presentation and their own slides are still showing H1 2010 as the release date. The bad news is that the Microsoft person giving the presentation had betas of every product but didn't have or hasn't seen Win Mobile 7 yet
windows 6.5.3 = 6.6
What do you think WinMo 7 is going to be like? Do you trust Microsoft to not screw it up? Do you think HTC will really give us a free update for our Leos?
I think it would be fantastic if they released a Beta version for the public to test like with Windows 7, but it doesn't seem like that's going to happen, which makes me nervous.
Hopefully the Zune team has a say in the design, cause they seem to have their **** together.
I'm guessing it's going to be a combination between WM 6.5, Android, Iphone OS and Zune. Honestly I'm hoping for something revolutionary.
MS didn't mess up Windows 7 so there's no reason to think WM7 will be any different.
Think positive.
I think a beta test would be positive for them anyways, especially to beat down all the rumors and to give people a reason to wait/want those WinMo devices, guaranteeing the availability of WinMo phones by the time it releases to the world in final form.
If they don't act swift in these times there would be no manufacturer left to distribute to and it would pretty much be at the brink of death (= even more pressure)..
However, once they bring out a public beta, IPhone OS and Android might actually get inspired by it and anticipate before it is even released, making it less spectacular.
Yep, there are two sides on this.. I hope it'll be as revolutionary as they are implying.
laserviking said:
Do you trust Microsoft to not screw it up? Do you think HTC will really give us a free update for our Leos?
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Click to collapse
No and definitely no.
I hope MS knocks it out of the park. But, I don't understand how they are going to leverage all of the legacy apps and their ugly interfaces and some new-age GUI.
If they decide to kill off all the old stuff and start fresh, then it technically isn't Windows Mobile anymore because none of the 1000's of WM apps will be compatible. Maybe there will be some sort of compatibility mode for the old stuff?
All of the "iPhone killers" died because of the following reasons:
1) No iTunes. Nowadays, services are more crucial to sucess than hardware specs. Direct-to-device music, movies and books is a killer feature.
2) User-experience less than iPhone's. The iPhones killer feature is it's fluidity and lightning fast response of it's GUI. You can't hate such speed.
3) Single form factor. Developers know how their apps will behave whereas WM apps have to cater to the various types of WM phones. Screen resolution, graphics acceleration, d-pad, optical mouse, fingerprint sensor, accelerometer, touchscreen, keyboard ? All of these options hinder software development for WM.
Microsoft is the only company that can battle Apple on all three fronts right away. For services they have Zune, Bing mobile, for gaming XBox, Windows Live/MyPhone, Exchange, Office, Windows Desktop. All of this needs to be thoroughly incorporated into its WM7 platform.
I just hope MS doesn't market WM7 as some cheap alternative to iPhone. WM7 needs to be a great OS GUI-wise but also offer services equivalent to iTunes on a super-powerful hardware platform with no less than cutting edge specs. It appears MS is on this path but I don't know how great the end product is going to be. My fingers are crossed.
OMG can we please close this? Totally useless speculation.
If you have no clue, just don't post. I know a lot but I won't tell you anything, just wait for MWC and stop the silly speculation.
EDIT: WhyBe, your post is actually very intelligent. That's why I'll give you a hint: Trust MS to do exactly what you expect
(though not all is perfect)
Oh and @Shasarak: I told you before, but I will tell you again: Ruling out any possibility without actually having a clue is stupid
You always pretend to know what you're talking about, but you actually know nothing at all. And, you know, drawing conclusions from nothing at all is just silly. Much more so than those speculators who at least admit that they've got no clue.
Freyberry you are one wound up dude. It's pretty normal to speculate on this kind of thing and hope that there will be change for the better. Given WinMo's awful track record and Windows recent push for usability everyone is speculating how it's gonna be.
"I know a lot but I won't tell you anything"... I'm getting flashbacks to the school playground here
mark0326 said:
MS didn't mess up Windows 7 so there's no reason to think WM7 will be any different.
Think positive.
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Click to collapse
Basically this.
Also, Microsoft hasn't messed anything up since Windows Vista.
Microsoft is on a hot streak right now, and I don't see any reason that should end anytime soon. Ballmer even beat Jobs to the punch with tablets.
And not only did Ballmer beat Jobs [to the punch], he punched harder too.
The only thing Apple et cetera has going for them at the moment is populism. People like Apple and they don't like Microsoft, probably because Apple tries to make tech appeal to the lowest common denominator, whereas Microsoft makes tech appeal to the enthusiast, while giving the lowest common denominator sufficient attention that they'll be at least able to passably use whatever product is in-question.
WhyBe said:
I hope MS knocks it out of the park. But, I don't understand how they are going to leverage all of the legacy apps and their ugly interfaces and some new-age GUI.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Look at Windows and Internet Explorer.
Microsoft is positively the master of backwards compatibility.
WhyBe said:
If they decide to kill off all the old stuff and start fresh, then it technically isn't Windows Mobile anymore because none of the 1000's of WM apps will be compatible. Maybe there will be some sort of compatibility mode for the old stuff?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So is Windows 7 not Windows because 16-bit Windows 3.1 apps won't run on it?
Not saying at all that Microsoft will kill of backwards compatibility. The Windows Mobile family is just too new for us to see backwards compatibility die off -- at least if Microsoft sticks with their current paradigm.
Windows was backwards-compatible with Windows 3.1 for over 17 years.
WhyBe said:
[/B]1) No iTunes. Nowadays, services are more crucial to sucess than hardware specs. Direct-to-device music, movies and books is a killer feature.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you're insinuating that Microsoft should do anything like iTunes, then I suggest that you just get out right now. iTunes is an example of everything a device experience shouldn't be. The ActiveSync paradigm is brilliant -- an application to sync your device if you want, with your device retaining the ability to act on its own.
iTunes isn't about user experience, it's about locking you in, and that's the biggest strength Microsoft products in general have -- you can do whatever you want.
WhyBe said:
2) User-experience less than iPhone's. The iPhones killer feature is it's fluidity and lightning fast response of it's GUI. You can't hate such speed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Look at Windows 7. They're knocking the ball out of the park on GUI design these days, just look at the massive steps forward from 6.1 to 6.5, and now to 6.5.3.
And, they're taking their time on Windows Mobile 7. I'd rather wait and get something great than something that's rushed out of the gates.
WhyBe said:
3) Single form factor. Developers know how their apps will behave whereas WM apps have to cater to the various types of WM phones. Screen resolution, graphics acceleration, d-pad, optical mouse, fingerprint sensor, accelerometer, touchscreen, keyboard ? All of these options hinder software development for WM.[/I]
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Click to collapse
Again, I suggest you just get out right now. Go buy your Apple products and enjoy your "single form factor". Microsoft doesn't play this game. You buy Windows, you don't buy a Microsoft computer, you buy Exchange, you don't buy a Microsoft mail server.
Their biggest strength is the fact that they don't have a single form factor. They do what they're good at -- software design -- and let the hardware designers do what they're good at.
WhyBe said:
Microsoft is the only company that can battle Apple on all three fronts right away. For services they have Zune, Bing mobile, for gaming XBox, Windows Live/MyPhone, Exchange, Office, Windows Desktop. All of this needs to be thoroughly incorporated into its WM7 platform.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Again, if you want Apple-like lock-in, go play with an iPhone. I doubt Microsoft is going to go this route, and if they do, they'll lose me as a customer. The strength of Windows and Microsoft products is the fact that you're not locked in. You're given an operating system and you're free to do whatever you want with it.
If you want someone to tell you how to do what you want to do with your device, rather than merely giving you the choice, go bend over for Steve Jobs.
Get out.
WhyBe said:
services equivalent to iTunes
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You mean lock-in?
If you're insinuating that Microsoft should do anything like iTunes, then I suggest that you just get out right now. iTunes is an example of everything a device experience shouldn't be. The ActiveSync paradigm is brilliant -- an application to sync your device if you want, with your device retaining the ability to act on its own.
^^^^^zune marketplace says hello
I certain hope there's no 'itunes' or 'single form factor', unless it's going to be their Zune phone, which I won't be buying.
I'm probably not who the new phone OSes are designed for. I just want to be able to copy files directly to it, use it for what I need, don't want to share data with them, don't really use social networks.
Spike15 said:
Basically this.
Also, Microsoft hasn't messed anything up since Windows Vista.
Microsoft is on a hot streak right now, and I don't see any reason that should end anytime soon. Ballmer even beat Jobs to the punch with tablets.
And not only did Ballmer beat Jobs [to the punch], he punched harder too.
The only thing Apple et cetera has going for them at the moment is populism. People like Apple and they don't like Microsoft, probably because Apple tries to make tech appeal to the lowest common denominator, whereas Microsoft makes tech appeal to the enthusiast, while giving the lowest common denominator sufficient attention that they'll be at least able to passably use whatever product is in-question.
Look at Windows and Internet Explorer.
Microsoft is positively the master of backwards compatibility.
So is Windows 7 not Windows because 16-bit Windows 3.1 apps won't run on it?
Not saying at all that Microsoft will kill of backwards compatibility. The Windows Mobile family is just too new for us to see backwards compatibility die off -- at least if Microsoft sticks with their current paradigm.
Windows was backwards-compatible with Windows 3.1 for over 17 years.
If you're insinuating that Microsoft should do anything like iTunes, then I suggest that you just get out right now. iTunes is an example of everything a device experience shouldn't be. The ActiveSync paradigm is brilliant -- an application to sync your device if you want, with your device retaining the ability to act on its own.
iTunes isn't about user experience, it's about locking you in, and that's the biggest strength Microsoft products in general have -- you can do whatever you want.
Look at Windows 7. They're knocking the ball out of the park on GUI design these days, just look at the massive steps forward from 6.1 to 6.5, and now to 6.5.3.
And, they're taking their time on Windows Mobile 7. I'd rather wait and get something great than something that's rushed out of the gates.
Again, I suggest you just get out right now. Go buy your Apple products and enjoy your "single form factor". Microsoft doesn't play this game. You buy Windows, you don't buy a Microsoft computer, you buy Exchange, you don't buy a Microsoft mail server.
Their biggest strength is the fact that they don't have a single form factor. They do what they're good at -- software design -- and let the hardware designers do what they're good at.
Again, if you want Apple-like lock-in, go play with an iPhone. I doubt Microsoft is going to go this route, and if they do, they'll lose me as a customer. The strength of Windows and Microsoft products is the fact that you're not locked in. You're given an operating system and you're free to do whatever you want with it.
If you want someone to tell you how to do what you want to do with your device, rather than merely giving you the choice, go bend over for Steve Jobs.
Get out.
You mean lock-in?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well Said. The only problem is that people really beleive what apple says.
If one said RIM & blackbery i would sort of listened. but iPhone! it doesn't do multitasking it's not an OS, it's a frimware
I do believe that WM7 is gonna be something that we didn't even think about. i don't know, maybe bringing another dimention to the scrolling? Vertical + Horizontal + Depth? that would be cool.
btw, why do we think that WM7 will be blue?
anaadoul said:
btw, why do we think that WM7 will be blue?
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Click to collapse
lol! Blue always comes to my mind when I try to imagine WM7. Maybe because windows xp, vista and 7 are by default blue?
I wonder if WM7 will actually be black! like the zune hd interface. will be really cool!
laserviking said:
Freyberry you are one wound up dude. It's pretty normal to speculate on this kind of thing and hope that there will be change for the better. Given WinMo's awful track record and Windows recent push for usability everyone is speculating how it's gonna be.
"I know a lot but I won't tell you anything"... I'm getting flashbacks to the school playground here
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Click to collapse
Yeah school playground... lol, grow up, little child. Maybe I'm not allowed to tell you something? Ever thought about this simple fact?
I already told you too much. Just re-read my post, you'll see it contains a LOT of info.
And NO, I do NOT work for Microsoft, nor HTC.
About all the speculation: It's OK if you speculate what it will/won't be, but what is very annoying is when
a) people complain about things that are pure speculation
b) people pretend they know something by using words like "definitely", despite that they actually know nothing
@anaadoul @mightymn It will be blue/grey
(but only by default, cause it's very customizable)
Btw. those are worth watching:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pC0cxzLhFqM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xXfJZzeSZ0U
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0typyfPG_4
@freyberry
In the absense of better information I'm happy to accept that you know 'stuff' and logically, if you do know 'stuff', you probably oughtn't to talk about it.
So in that spirit, if you were to randomly throw a dart at a calendar in the interests of picking a date - entirely at random - when the wider community might start seeing pre-release or beta versions appearing, what would be your hunch for where that random dart might land?
Nice topic, it is fun to hear what everybody expects from WM7
I am very confused about WM7... one day I am all happy and can't wait for WM7.. the next day I am not so sure about it anymore... MicroSoft can really go either way IMO.
At the best:
- Brilliant new OS: Nice looking UI, smooth, stable, NEW features the other OS's don't have, good services like Zune, Xbox Live, etc. But most important...
A GOOD APPSTORE.
If all goes wrong...:
- Minor update of 6.5.3, some small UI changes, Zune, Xbox Live.
-------------------------
In the end if I just look at my HTC HD2, and think very clearly: what is missing? I think of the following:
- HTC Sense is nice, but it just does not come together with WM. I would like it to become 'one'. HTC Sense can also get a little bit slow sometimes. I would prefer a HTC Sense in the styl of HTC Hero, with the widgets.
- I want perfect stability of the OS: no more crashes, no more lagging.
- I want more App Support. I want a decent official AppStore. I don't need 140.000 apps, but I want it to be a succes. So not like the current 'AppStore' which is dead.
That's it. Zune and Xbox Live support are not even so important to me. These 3 points I mentioned are a MUST for WM7. Now that I look at it, the iPhone has all of these 3 points. I guess in the end I can not escape the fact that the iPhone OS is brilliant. That plus the awesome hardware offered by the HTC HD2 will make it a beast.
And regarding if HTC will give us the update for free: I hope so, I thing the chances are 50/50. But even if they want some money for it, I will pay it. Up to 15 euro, not more.
Come on Microsoft, show us you can, like you did with Windows 7, Xbox 360 and Zune!
@Gustopher
Nicely put, but unfortunately, I can not give you any satisfying answer.
I have no access to pre-release/beta versions, therefore I can only hope that something will leak soon. I don't think there will be a public/official beta.
After MWC, they will give more people access to the software, which will increase the probability of a leak.
Let's hope we won't have to wait until HTC releases an official upgrade, cause you know how long that usually takes.
WM7 definitely looks good (and yes, I may use the word "definitely", cause I know it). But Microsoft is doing a "great" job at scattering confusing/contradictory pieces of information, thus I'm just as anxious as you to see all the pieces come together.
freyberry said:
@Gustopher
Nicely put, but unfortunately, I can not give you any satisfying answer.
I have no access to pre-release/beta versions, therefore I can only hope that something will leak soon. I don't think there will be a public/official beta.
After MWC, they will give more people access to the software, which will increase the probability of a leak.
Let's hope we won't have to wait until HTC releases an official upgrade, cause you know how long that usually takes.
WM7 definitely looks good (and yes, I may use the word "definitely", cause I know it). But Microsoft is doing a "great" job at scattering confusing/contradictory pieces of information, thus I'm just as anxious as you to see all the pieces come together.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Understood and thanks. If I were to try to paraphrase, your - let's call it a hunch - elements of the OS are coming together but it's not quite at alpha/beta stage...but could be relatively soon.
So maybe waiting is the best tactic...
Waiting is certainly the best tactic. However, I fear some of the most important questions will not be answered at MWC, at least not officially.
(I don't mean the UI, I mean core functionality/services/compatibility etc., cause that's what I don't know about and have lots of questions - that's the pieces I want to see come together)
Ah well, let's turn this into a wild speculation thread, shall we? Just let me get the popcorn first....
...OK, here we go:
ppcgeeks said:
-At the Mobile World Congress event on February 15th, 2010, Windows Phone 7 will be unveilved, although at this time plans are only to unveil the user interface of the new platform . Specific indepth functionality of the device will most likely not be shown.
-The User Interface is based upon codename “METRO”. It will be very similar to the Zune HD User Interface with a complete revamp of the “Start” screen. The UI is “Very Clean”, “Soulful” and “Alive” [<-- That I can confirm.]
-Unfortunately there will be no Flash support at the get go as there was not enough time to implement these features.
-Windows Phone 7 will only support application installation through service based delivery. (i.e Marketplace). Application installation via storage card will not be possible.
- No Multi-Task support. Applications will “Pause” when in the background, however will support notifications via push notifications.
-Marketplace will now support “try before you buy” as well as an API
-No NETCF backwards compatibility. This means the original rumor of no backward compatibility for applications holds to be true. That being said, there are high hopes of porting the NetCF to the newer platform easily.
-Microsoft is confident that devices will be ready by September 2010
-Full Zune Integration
-Windows Mobile Device Center will no longer be used. Zune software to take over syncing via PC.
-OEM Interfaces will not be allowed to run on the device. Say goodbye to Sense UI / SPB Mobile Shell / Point UI / Infinity, etc, etc
-Full XBOX Gaming Integration (Gamer tag, achievements, friends, avatars, merchandising, etc)
-Full support for social networking
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Source: http://www.ppcgeeks.com/2010/02/06/...ndows-phone-7-details-emerge-from-the-depths/
Flame on! Hahahaha...
freyberry said:
Waiting is certainly the best tactic. However, I fear some of the most important questions will not be answered at MWC, at least not officially.
(I don't mean the UI, I mean core functionality/services/compatibility etc., cause that's what I don't know about and have lots of questions - that's the pieces I want to see come together)
Ah well, let's turn this into a wild speculation thread, shall we? Just let me get the popcorn first....
...OK, here we go:
Source: http://www.ppcgeeks.com/2010/02/06/...ndows-phone-7-details-emerge-from-the-depths/
Flame on! Hahahaha...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i don't like that!
let's hope it's not true! i have always loved WM because it's so open.
no .net cf?! no way, this will mean loosing the whole developers community! i disagree with you i'm afraid
@freyberry
how can you tell all this? i'm close to MS here in my region and they didn't say anything and not willing to, notice that they support WindowsPhoneMiddleEast Community which i lead (look at my signature).
Okay, I'm assuming you all bought your hero's for what it was capable of when you bought it, seeing as there were no confirmed updates from HTC and even Google scheduled yet, so why does the majority get annoyed when their phone misses out on the latest 2.2 update? It still has all the features you bought it for. Any update at all is a positive, no update is neutral since your phone didn't lose anything, it just didn't gain anything either. Besides the fact that our Hero's already have basic flash support and are ahead of most devices in functionality just because it was ahead of its time when it got released?
I am somewhere in the middle: somewhat content with my Android 1.5 Hero and somewhat annoyed at the lack of updates. I think the trouble all comes down to convergence. Let me toss a couple thoughts your way. Generally speaking, in the recent past people have:
1) Paid full price for a computer (laptop, desktop, etc) and then promptly go out at get what ever Internet service provider they want (cable DSL) etc. The computer works on any network.
2) Paid a reduced price for mobile phones for the trade off of signing a contract and being tied to a particular provider. In many cases, only certain phones are available on certain networks. This is the complete opposite of the computer case in #1
3) Expected that their computer will be upgradeable (for a fee) over the years, at least until the hardware becomes obsolete. I know I've had XP, Vista, and Windows 7 on the same machine.
4) Expected that if they wanted new features on a phone, they would need to get a new phone.
Now the phones and computers are, too some extent, converging into one device. If I use my Android phone to check email, twitter, facebook, etc and never make voice calls - is it really a phone? No, it is just another Internet connected device for which my expectations are typically that I can upgrade the device until the hardware becomes obsolete. I didn't necessarily say that should be free, but it should be possible.
Another aspect that people expect of their computers, is that they can load virtually any application designed for that OS. Even today, most applications (if not all?) written for Windows 7 still run on XP. With Android, the applications seem to have been tied to the OS. For example, with my 1.5 phone I still can't use Google Voice search or Google Goggles? Why? My phone has a camera and a microphone, but for some reason you need to have 1.6 for them. Same for the free Google Navigation. You need to have a later version - just to run an application.
Again, I am somewhere in the middle. I have been VERY pleased with my HTC Hero. At the same time, I sure would like Google Voice search, Navigation, multiple gmail accounts, etc. I might even be willing to pay to update it (much like Apple makes people pay for iPod Touch updates). But shelling out $600 for a new phone (I buy unlocked - which is much cheaper for me in the long run) for those features does not seem worth it.
The lesson learned might be to always by the Google phone (i.e. Nexus One or whatever comes next). Google are responsible for pushing out those updates and it seems to happen fast!
I bouth my Hero after I saw the HTC tweet that they are working on the 2.1.
Update from 2.1 to 2.2 is a natural function of Android - it's OTA friendly. If a manufacturer declares Android, it declares everything what goes with it. If they don't want to spend time on such minor updates as 2.2, they should declare that as well: Android without updates. And they have not. So people are angry for not getting what they expect. And the expectatons are absolutely reasonable. That's why I will NOT buy any other HTC device. I learned that they dont't treat us, customers, fairly. They are going to do the same exact thing with the Desire as well. Not going down that path again.
I personally haven't heard one person moaning about not getting 2.2.
But people are expecting 2.1 due to no updates being given on the OS since the handset was released. Hero users were promised a long time ago that we would be getting 2.1 due to 1.6 being skipped, whereas other, lower spec models had that update.
You don't know what functionality will be added two updates later, so not having them is neutral, no one is oblidged to update their products and they can be discontinued whenever they wish. Does it matter? No, you got the phone based on the features it had when you bought it, the phone doesn't all of a sudden get worse because it didn't get an update.
I for one will purchase another HTC device when I'm done with my hero, simply because they deliver the best product with the best feature set regarding android, if updates are slow oh well, I buy phones for what they are capable of at the time of purchase since I can't look into the future, and neither can you.
So - all you set out to do with your original post was anger people and not take into account other peoples point of view? I took some time to provide some rational arguments.
Dont you expect to get updates for your computer? Graphics Drivers? Network Drivers? Operating Systems? Surely you don't just by a new computer everytime you need that functionality. You expect either the OS Vendor or the computer manufacturer to provide updates - both to create new features and fix bugs.
Bug fixes yes, but as they said those will be provided, and no I don't expect additional features, sure I'll be happy with new features but I didn't expect them. Even though phones are getting closer and closer to being computers they aren't.
How are they different?
seshmaru said:
Okay, I'm assuming you all bought your hero's for what it was capable of when you bought it, seeing as there were no confirmed updates from HTC and even Google scheduled yet, so why does the majority get annoyed when their phone misses out on the latest 2.2 update? It still has all the features you bought it for. Any update at all is a positive, no update is neutral since your phone didn't lose anything, it just didn't gain anything either. Besides the fact that our Hero's already have basic flash support and are ahead of most devices in functionality just because it was ahead of its time when it got released?
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I was happy with it when I got it, it was after all the flagship HTC device of 2009. But then about a month later 1.6 came out, and HTC said they were working on an upgrade to 1.6. This was delayed, then 2.0 came out and HTC suggested they would upgrade to 2.0 instead. The same happened with 2.1. But you are correct that they never really announced any upgrades officially, it was just announced on there twitter stream. Which is half the problem really. They kept suggesting that they were working on an upgrade, but kept pushing it back. Had they just done the 1.6 upgrade and then stopped, I don't think half as many people would be annoyed.
What HTC did wrong here was to give inconsistent information, along with delays and then kept junking what they had done and telling people they were working on something better. As a result, people kept hanging on, and being told that if they just waited a little longer then they would get an upgrade. If HTC had just come clean and updated us with offical announcements, or had stuck with 1.6 and been honest about a lack of improvement, then people wouldn't still be waiting.
Also, if you look at the iPhone model, they may charge for upgrades but the original 2G iPhone has only just gone out of support. Given that the Hero was the 2009 flagship Android device, and was still being sold way into 2010, its a little hard to stomach the idea that its out of support so quickly.
tl;dr HTC kept pissing us around and making us wait just a little longer, when it could have just said "not going to happen, here is 1.6, sorry" and this is annoying.
Are we buying a piece of hardware which is only going to be bug fixed, or are we buying hardware which is going to be updated for a certain amount of time even after they're no longer selling it?
In my opinion we're not just buying hardware, we're buying a software package behind it. That software needs to be updated, otherwise some major killer feature in a slightly newer version isn't possible for you to get - such as Google navigation, can turn a 6 month old phone which has the hardware capability into a device which is so frustrating.
I expect my device to last around 2 years, various networks offer contracts on these devices for 2 years, I think it's fair to expect updates to smart phones for that duration. I wouldn't expect every feature to be supported (eg. no live wallpaper if the device can't handle it), but it should be updated so it's possible to run the latest apps on it.
The phone manufacturers need to be honest on how long they plan to support these things, because it is becoming an issue. People feel abandoned if they pay hundreds of pounds on a device and never get an update, whilst other users pay the same amount and get multiple updates. If HTC doesn't want to release updates then that's fine - I'll just consider it before buying the device.
clobber said:
I am somewhere in the middle: somewhat content with my Android 1.5 Hero and somewhat annoyed at the lack of updates. I think the trouble all comes down to convergence [snip].
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Nice argument. I hadn't thought about the convergence issue. You might well have hit the nail on the head.
I see your point, but if you had gotten any other non android smartphone besides the iPhone you wouldn't be getting significant feature set updates either.
But some people bought the hero because HTC said they were working on 2.1 months ago, others bought it because it was advertised "Android" and assumed you'd get Android updates. Others bought it because it's a good phone, but to the first two groups of people, the promise of new features was a reason for buying.
People are annoyed because HTC won't provide an update they've said they're working on (2.1), which seems to be a marketing interference to get as many people to buy a new device, rather than keep using their all one.
Also annoying is that we're stymied from having a generic OS made with drivers for all sorts of mobile hardware, but that's more of a philosophical annoyance.
I'm ticked off at the lack of update, not because I think I deserve an update per se, but more because I think I deserve all the features to work properly on my phone, and they don't.
And it's not like I could have tried it before I bought it either...
I've been an HTC user since 2003 and have always promoted the brand, but I don't think I'll get another one after this.
I hope e this is try, and can run in our beautifful HD2.
...because i can't leave without Copy\Past feature in a smarthone SO....until that, i'm on Android scene.
http://www.winrumors.com/rumor-windows-phone-7-update-on-february-7/
Windows Phone 7 update on February 7
54 minutes ago...
Microsoft may be gearing up to release its first Windows Phone 7 update on February 7 according to reports.
LiveSide has tracked a number of French sites that suggest Microsoft will release its first Windows Phone 7 update on February 7. There’s no proof that the date is accurate and the timing is odd given that Microsoft chief Steve Ballmer will be in Barcelona on February 14 for the Mobile World Congress. Whether or not the date is accurate, WinRumors can confirm that Microsoft has Released to Manufacturing (RTM) its first update codenamed “NoDo”.
Microsoft’s first update will improve application start-up and resume times and introduce the important copy and paste feature. Microsoft posted a support article earlier this week that details the update process for Windows Phone 7 devices. The support article has led many to believe that the update is due imminently.
Microsoft revealed earlier this week that it has now shipped 2 million devices to carriers. Microsoft previously revealed that the company had shipped 1.5 million Windows Phone 7 units between the October launch and December. Research firm IDC and application platform Appcelerator recently surveyed over 2,000 developersto work out their intent for 2011. Developer interest for Windows Phone 7 rose 8 points to 36% ‘very interested’ according to the results. IDC says the interest was “due to a better-than-expected launch.” Survey respondents also said that “Windows Phone’s improved UI was a critical factor for the increase.”
Microsoft also revealed there are now 24,000 registered Windows Phone developers and over 6,500 applications in the marketplace. Microsoft’s customer satisfaction rates on Windows Phone handsets are at 93% according to the company. Microsoft is believed to be planning to unveil a second bigger update in February at the Mobile World Congress show in Barcelona, Spain. Microsoft’s second update will introduce enhanced developer controls for applications and updated Silverlight components.
Joe Belfiore, who oversees Windows Phone Program Management, and is responsible for the design and software product definition of forthcoming generations of Windows phones will keynote MIX11 this year. Belfiore is expected to layout a roadmap for the future of Windows Phone 7 and detail Microsoft’s second Windows Phone 7 update. Microsoft is also working on a major overhaul of the Windows Phone 7 browser. In a job posting, listed in November, the software maker promises a “major overhaul of standard support and new approaches to make significant advances in performance, power consumption and bandwidth utilization.” Microsoft may be ready to detail its future Internet Explorer mobile plans at MIX in April too. Microsoft is believed to be planning Flash and HTML5 support for Windows Phone 7.
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Lets wait, and see if Microsoft wants ot not, more embassatores for WP7s.....
From what i'm reading it seems to me that microsoft won't block htc hd2 phones, they want developers to go to windows phone 7, they want ratings to go up.
So to me is they won't block access for htc hd2's.
After the update...
Microsoft, does NOT want hackers and independent developers modifying their OS. The HTC HD2 will be excluded from the update. If Microsoft wanted this and other devices like it on the new OS, they would lighten up on their restrictions. After all THEY are the ones that control it.
The WP7 update will close the bug that allows the Chevron tool to work. Our only hope is that someone will hack the update to work. It's going to be much harder this time, as MS had some help and insight from the Chevron guys! Time will tell us for sure.
I actually don't understand how Microsoft could exclude the HD2 from the update, given the current architecture. Their own Marketplace servers think the HD2 is an HD7... if they could detect the difference, they would have blocked us already.
We know that Microsoft has designed the WP7 to have complete and total seperation between the OEM and carrier's device-specific modules on the one hand, and the vanilla OS on the other. Microsoft's updates are exclusively for the latter portion of the OS, which is why they can push out a single update package to all unlocked devices *directly*.
In short, my money is on the first update working just fine for the HD2, breaking very little in the process. It isn't a question of what Microsoft secretly wants. This is about HTC building the HD7 out of almost all the same hardware as the HD2, and any small differences were easily patched up by DFT.
I might add that since Microsoft has triumphantly announced that NoDo will break ChevronWP7, wouldn't you expect them to also announce that they had closed an HD2 loophole?
benjaminries said:
I actually don't understand how Microsoft could exclude the HD2 from the update, given the current architecture. Their own Marketplace servers think the HD2 is an HD7... if they could detect the difference, they would have blocked us already.
We know that Microsoft has designed the WP7 to have complete and total seperation between the OEM and carrier's device-specific modules on the one hand, and the vanilla OS on the other. Microsoft's updates are exclusively for the latter portion of the OS, which is why they can push out a single update package to all unlocked devices *directly*.
In short, my money is on the first update working just fine for the HD2, breaking very little in the process. It isn't a question of what Microsoft secretly wants. This is about HTC building the HD7 out of almost all the same hardware as the HD2, and any small differences were easily patched up by DFT.
I might add that since Microsoft has triumphantly announced that NoDo will break ChevronWP7, wouldn't you expect them to also announce that they had closed an HD2 loophole?
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I appreciate your train of thought, and love the optimism
Is there something like a kudos button here?
neugroove said:
I appreciate your train of thought, and love the optimism
Is there something like a kudos button here?
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No, But he just said it
MS will surely shut down that bug on their os and no longer hd2 with wp7 ,but for surely they will hack into it , MS answered me that porting WP7 to HD2 WAS NOT ILEIGAL
benjaminries said:
I actually don't understand how Microsoft could exclude the HD2 from the update, given the current architecture. Their own Marketplace servers think the HD2 is an HD7... if they could detect the difference, they would have blocked us already.
We know that Microsoft has designed the WP7 to have complete and total seperation between the OEM and carrier's device-specific modules on the one hand, and the vanilla OS on the other. Microsoft's updates are exclusively for the latter portion of the OS, which is why they can push out a single update package to all unlocked devices *directly*.
In short, my money is on the first update working just fine for the HD2, breaking very little in the process. It isn't a question of what Microsoft secretly wants. This is about HTC building the HD7 out of almost all the same hardware as the HD2, and any small differences were easily patched up by DFT.
I might add that since Microsoft has triumphantly announced that NoDo will break ChevronWP7, wouldn't you expect them to also announce that they had closed an HD2 loophole?
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I wish I shared your optimism and hope you are correct, but from what I can understand, the update will effectively push out a new ROM having backed up the old one first.
Whatever black magic the DFT guys did to hack the ROM to work on HD2 would surely be undone? I therefore believe we won't get the update unless and until the DFT hack it.
There could be stuff below the ROM level that won't be affected and it could be this stuff that DFT tweaked - not knowing the architecture of WP7 I couldn't comment.
Being a pessimist, it just feels too good to be true that a update would work without any issue - hope I'm wrong though. This could be how MS propose to close the HD2 loophole. It would even work quite well for MS. Having had a taste of WP7, how many of us might go out and buy a WP7 phone having had an extended trial and then being cut off from our dealer...
Gustopher said:
I wish I shared your optimism and hope you are correct, but from what I can understand, the update will effectively push out a new ROM having backed up the old one first.
Whatever black magic the DFT guys did to hack the ROM to work on HD2 would surely be undone? I therefore believe we won't get the update unless and until the DFT hack it.
There could be stuff below the ROM level that won't be affected and it could be this stuff that DFT tweaked - not knowing the architecture of WP7 I couldn't comment.
Being a pessimist, it just feels too good to be true that a update would work without any issue - hope I'm wrong though. This could be how MS propose to close the HD2 loophole. It would even work quite well for MS. Having had a taste of WP7, how many of us might go out and buy a WP7 phone having had an extended trial and then being cut off from our dealer...
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Yeah right, I wouldn't buy the same hardware again, I would consider if at least any of the wp7 phones get the Desire HD hardware, but none of them has it. If the update stop us from wp7 then I'll stick with android and wait for the next major hardware upgrade then I will look for another phone.
Voluntary update?
My understanding is that the update will not mandatory.
You can choose to update you system or not. So our HD27's will still work once the update is released - we just wont have the new features or be able to run apps that use the new featrues.
I thinks the chances of the update working are fair to good. From what I have gathered the biggest problem the DFT team had was getting magldr and the WP7 OS to play well together from NAND.
I may be wrong - but I like the "glass half full approach".....
I don't think you could update the hd2 , and if I was DFT I had prevented it from updating to (just to be sure that there are after a update no 14000 bricks)
i wouldn't be surprised if the HD2 could flawelessly get the update. Since it is an MS update, none of the hardware specific software/drivers will be affected. Otherwise, MS has to push updates for specific devices and that is not what they are planning to do. But who'll know? I am sure to be the first to try that out and if I will brick my device, than so be it. I don't think the HD2 can be bricked beyond repairing. With all the great tutorials, first aid guides here on XDA, I think it is safe to try it.
benjaminries said:
I actually don't understand how Microsoft could exclude the HD2 from the update, given the current architecture. Their own Marketplace servers think the HD2 is an HD7... if they could detect the difference, they would have blocked us already.
We know that Microsoft has designed the WP7 to have complete and total seperation between the OEM and carrier's device-specific modules on the one hand, and the vanilla OS on the other. Microsoft's updates are exclusively for the latter portion of the OS, which is why they can push out a single update package to all unlocked devices *directly*.
In short, my money is on the first update working just fine for the HD2, breaking very little in the process. It isn't a question of what Microsoft secretly wants. This is about HTC building the HD7 out of almost all the same hardware as the HD2, and any small differences were easily patched up by DFT.
I might add that since Microsoft has triumphantly announced that NoDo will break ChevronWP7, wouldn't you expect them to also announce that they had closed an HD2 loophole?
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Click to collapse
They can detect it from IMEI, first 8 digits state the manufacturer and model. There are DBs on the net to verify IMEI against phone maker and model. e.g. imei-number.com/tac-list
MerLinh said:
Yeah right, I wouldn't buy the same hardware again, I would consider if at least any of the wp7 phones get the Desire HD hardware, but none of them has it. If the update stop us from wp7 then I'll stick with android and wait for the next major hardware upgrade then I will look for another phone.
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Fair point. Until DFT WP7 I was at a loss though; WM6.5.5 is dying through lack of new stuff, I didn't fancy WP7 and having had a play with Android it just irritates me - I know it can be changed but the default colour scheme and design looks like it was done by a class of 7 year olds with a box of crayons (NB: my opinion, apologies Android-lovers).
So at least I know now that I could go out and buy a WP7 device, but you are quite correct that the launch phones are a disappointing bunch, with nothing one whit better than my HD2.
I have a hunch that something sexy must be coming as WP7 slowly gathers momentum, so I'll hang onto my money for now.
What to do if the update breaks the HD2(7) though...
(Accepting that it may well be optional and might well not break it even then)
hyellow said:
i wouldn't be surprised if the HD2 could flawelessly get the update. Since it is an MS update, none of the hardware specific software/drivers will be affected. Otherwise, MS has to push updates for specific devices and that is not what they are planning to do. But who'll know? I am sure to be the first to try that out and if I will brick my device, than so be it. I don't think the HD2 can be bricked beyond repairing. With all the great tutorials, first aid guides here on XDA, I think it is safe to try it.
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Huh, I wouldn´t count on that. I can definitely imagine the updater could be able to detect the phone you are using (many of us showing "HD7") and upload specific drivers, too - the original WP7 devices did receive some updates already. To make the updates user friendly, they maybe include those brand/operator specific files and drivers, who knows. And replacing the DFT/Leo70 driver material with original HD7 versions might maybe brick the system...
galatei said:
They can detect it from IMEI, first 8 digits state the manufacturer and model. There are DBs on the net to verify IMEI against phone maker and model. e.g. imei-number.com/tac-list
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Now that seems to be a bit far stretched... but who knows... modern times, no?
At least, it would kind of confirm my thoughts above...
It could be that we may get the update and install it OTA,but in absence of any immediate DFT or Chevron Development efforts we could very well get stuck with WP7 on our HD2s !!!.
I'm pretty sure we won't be able to update our phones successfully with MS's update... we'll probably have to wait until DFT releases an update to flash manually. But unless DFT pre-hacks the registry to make it show up as a HD7, we will have problems doing anything with it until a new way to unlock it is discovered. We'll have to wait and see what happens, but we will probably be stuck without updates for a while I think.
the only update i am looking forward to is massively improved battery life, this has to be from DFT.
haksam said:
the only update i am looking forward to is massively improved battery life, this has to be from DFT.
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Really? How can you live without Copy \ Past feature? I use WP7s for 3 days, and was very annoying without that feature.
And I miss, only copy /past but too, more share options and multitasking.... I like very much the UI, but I need quickly this features added.
Sent by my HD2 Gingerbread device
benjaminries said:
I actually don't understand how Microsoft could exclude the HD2 from the update, given the current architecture. Their own Marketplace servers think the HD2 is an HD7... if they could detect the difference, they would have blocked us already.
We know that Microsoft has designed the WP7 to have complete and total seperation between the OEM and carrier's device-specific modules on the one hand, and the vanilla OS on the other. Microsoft's updates are exclusively for the latter portion of the OS, which is why they can push out a single update package to all unlocked devices *directly*.
In short, my money is on the first update working just fine for the HD2, breaking very little in the process. It isn't a question of what Microsoft secretly wants. This is about HTC building the HD7 out of almost all the same hardware as the HD2, and any small differences were easily patched up by DFT.
I might add that since Microsoft has triumphantly announced that NoDo will break ChevronWP7, wouldn't you expect them to also announce that they had closed an HD2 loophole?
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Click to collapse
actually, think about it, there is one single blindingly obvious difference thats so easy to detect they could get a 10 year old to locate them.
How many buttons do you have on your HD2? i wouldnt be sure there was no way of knowing. even if we take that out you'll still have some kind of unique signature on the cracked OS that we have all used, it would be near on impossible to hide the fact its an HD2 and not an HD7 if they really wanted to find out.
Hey all,
As the title suggests, this is the question to you pros .
Are there any Infos already available?
I know it might be too early but asking can't harm anyone
If there are any, do you think it will be portable to our lovely HD2?
I think you are getting ahead of yourself I mean windows 8 hasn't even come to computers yet
Finalforce1111 said:
Hey all,
As the title suggests, this is the question to you pros .
Are there any Infos already available?
I know it might be too early but asking can't harm anyone
If there are any, do you think it will be portable to our lovely HD2?
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Click to collapse
Windows 8 is scheduled Autumn 2012 which means WP8 will be way after that i'm afraid. Being a big fan of Win 7 and WP7 i can only say that we'll welcome the new releases with open arms.
Finalforce1111 said:
If there are any, do you think it will be portable to our lovely HD2?
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Click to collapse
I extremely doubt it.
WP8 will almost certainly be only for dual core+ devices by the time is developed/released.
We are still in waiting for stable Mango release..... You are into WP8
we know it will be released with the windows 8 desktop platform, the problem is at what stage of the windows 8 desktops life, all we can say for sure is that they both will exist at the same time, so somewhere between 2012 -2014 more likely the towards the latter.
im actually quite liking this unified OS idea, lets just hope MS doesnt cut the balls of the desktop OS like its done with WP
Wrong location for this post...
Hamburg said:
Wrong location for this post...
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thanks man i wasn't the one to say it
Come on people, mango is not out yet... Windows 8 RC may become available for public testing this fall, but no promises... The current windows8 supposed versions are skinned w7 with some additional options that may or may not make it in the final release of w8. The tile UI is not available. WP8 is not even in the books right now, mango will be the one to look for. Mango on hd2 is rubbish compared to the mango released officially from Microsoft for developers that is working flawlesly. Forget that dual core crap too, those are single core processors designed to handle graphic as a separate process. Microsoft has an agreement to make the software upgradable across the board, so it will not limit any device as long as it meets the base requirements. This said by the time that is out, what we have now will be so outdated. HD2 will always be the best phone I have ever had (I have 4). All running different things. Not to say anything else, its time to let them to rest and only for testing stuff or even just let it rest in pice and be the best phone ever made for cross system platforms. HD7 is great and mango is flawless. Spend some $$$ and experience the real thing. You already had a taste of the Os. Let it go. Better things are coming.
hdfanatic said:
Come on people, mango is not out yet... Windows 8 RC may become available for public testing this fall, but no promises... The current windows8 supposed versions are skinned w7 with some additional options that may or may not make it in the final release of w8. The tile UI is not available. WP8 is not even in the books right now, mango will be the one to look for. Mango on hd2 is rubbish compared to the mango released officially from Microsoft for developers that is working flawlesly. Forget that dual core crap too, those are single core processors designed to handle graphic as a separate process. Microsoft has an agreement to make the software upgradable across the board, so it will not limit any device as long as it meets the base requirements. This said by the time that is out, what we have now will be so outdated. HD2 will always be the best phone I have ever had (I have 4). All running different things. Not to say anything else, its time to let them to rest and only for testing stuff or even just let it rest in pice and be the best phone ever made for cross system platforms. HD7 is great and mango is flawless. Spend some $$$ and experience the real thing. You already had a taste of the Os. Let it go. Better things are coming.
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Click to collapse
fair enough but we shouldn't ditch the HD2 just yet... its an incredible phone that me and my friend cant find a MAJOR flaw between it and his HD7